Ep 19 | Reena Friedman Watts

Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Miscarriage, Podcast, Pregnancy & Infant Loss | 0 comments

Reena Friedman Watts: Multiple Miscarriage Experience & Words of Wisdom

 

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

**Reena shares graphic details of her two miscarriages. Please consider this if you have personally experienced a miscarriage.**

We go deep in this conversation, talking about the environment a bereaved mother experiencing miscarriage goes through, through the eyes of Reena’s experience.

We touch on the loss of her grandfather as well, and the relationship he and her grandmother had. Reena reflects on that relationship with her grandparents and shares wisdom from her 92-year-old grandmother, as well as wise words from her father.

Reena shares a lovely story and lesson on charity. Charity doesn’t have to be money. As Reena’s story illustrates, that charity can be time and an embrace. I also share a tip about offering grievers a hug, too!

So much wisdom in this episode. Even if you haven’t experienced a miscarriage, you likely know someone who has; you’ll find Reena’s words help to support others.

Connect with Reena:


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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA (@theunleashedheart):

Victoria Volk 0:00
Welcome to the show today my guest is Reena Friedman Watts. I’m so excited to have you here.

Reena Friedman Watts 0:09
Thank you. I’m so excited to connect with you too.

Victoria Volk 0:12
Again, because I was on your podcast, and now you return the favor and you’re a guest on mine. And it’s been so fun to get to know you through Instagram. And when we first connected and yeah, you’re just a spitfire and I, I’ve just enjoyed getting to know you. And I’m, I’m sure that whoever listens to this will get something good, good nugget. Today, oh, tell us about yourself.

Reena Friedman Watts 0:40
I am a mom of four. I am an entrepreneur for the last couple of years, I have pivoted many times in my career, the first half of my career was in television. And then I took a mommy break where I had three kids in four years. And then while my kids were in preschool, I kind of inched my way back into working part time. So that was passing out flyers for divorce court and casting for court TV. And then I took a program manager role at avoid company and then wanted to work closer to home. So I could be there when my kids hopped off the bus. So I worked for a financial firm for a year and a half that led me to creating Lunch and Learn type of events in the corporate space. And then I really loved the event space. However, I didn’t so much love the financial space. So I then decided to get into entrepreneurial events and fell in love with that I love entrepreneurs. And I think my love of entrepreneurship ties in to my television roots, really, because entrepreneurs they bounce around, they have to constantly pivot. And when you work in TV, it’s the same way you know, you work on a pilot, it either gets picked up or you’re on unemployment.

Victoria Volk 2:00
Well, and if anybody checks you out, you have a podcast called Better Called Daddy. And if anyone checks that out, it totally I see the roots of that background used into it very much. So with entrepreneurship, it’s a lot of creativity that you have to rely on. And you’re definitely expressing that for sure. I love it. What led to better call daddy podcast?

Reena Friedman Watts 2:28
Oh my gosh, my dad has wanted me to be in front of the camera my entire career. And I have worked behind the scenes of a lot of other people. And I was happy doing that. And I feel like in order to be a good entrepreneur, a lot of the time, you do need to get ideas from others. And you do need to find out systems and ways to do things like my husband is a really good workhorse. He’s worked for big organizations, he’s good at corporate. I’m not that, but he yearns for entrepreneurship. And I was like, You know what, all of these things that you’re learning, he might one day be able to do the entrepreneur thing. But he’s like an entrepreneur. And I did the entrepreneur role for a while to get that financial firm, I had my own corner office, but I still had a boss. And I still reported to him. And he still got a chunk of everything I brought through the door. But I had a lot of freedom. And I had a lot of creativity and had I not had that role. I don’t think that I would have done many of the things that I’ve done now. So I have to be ready.

Victoria Volk 3:34
And I think a lot of what we experienced before entrepreneurship lays the foundation for entrepreneurship. And when you say that parenthood does too, like even just being a parent, like I talk about all the time, it’s like there’s two things that really grow person entrepreneurship and being a parent and bring up a lot of grief for us too!

Reena Friedman Watts 3:57
That is a good transition. And I was gonna say you know, being a parent has knocked me off my feet literally because after my first kid, first of all, I was 28 with my first kid, my mom had me at 18 that is something I didn’t want and I wasn’t ready for you know, she had a serious relationship. She married her high school sweetheart, but I was far from that. And I really wanted to stand on my own two feet and be able to live the big city life and make a paycheck and know that I could support myself prior to jumping into a relationship. So I had my first kid at 28 I you know, I lived in Chicago, I lived in LA I made a good salary. I thought I had gotten it out of my system of wanting to work. I was like yeah, I want to be a mom. I want to get married. I’m ready for that chapter. Then I met a guy we got married within eight months, I left my career moved to a new city new no one was making no money. He’s finishing his PhD. I’m like, I hate marriage. I hate life. What did I do that first year was trauma. It was so hard. I questioned everything, a lot of change. And then I got knocked up six months in. And I had a kid that was overwhelming. I literally did not get my first babysitter until he was like 18 months or something. I felt like just stuck in the house and that he always wanted me and I nursed him until he was two years old. And once I got him to sleep, I didn’t move from the chair. I was just holding this kid. I’m like, Okay, he’s asleep. I’m not gonna move. I mean, he overtook my life. And with the next one, she was so easy. A while Oh, in between the two, I had a miscarriage. I wanted to talk about that. And we had moved to Kentucky, because my husband got a great offer. And it was in my hometown. And we thought it would be nice to be near my parents and grandparents and have a chapter of that for a bit. So I had a miscarriage literally at my parents house, like I was having cramps, and I went into the shower, and then in the shower, there is something that rain, I wasn’t sure what that was. But I had already, you know, found out that I was pregnant and gone in and like heard the heartbeat. And it was the craziest experience. Because I guess if you just haven’t talked to other people about that, or you’ve had a healthy baby first, you just have no idea what I had never talked to anybody about miscarriage before. And seeing that in the drain. First of all, I heard myself cry like I had never cried before. And it just overtook me where I didn’t even know where that came from. that emotion, your hormones are just completely out of whack. And I literally scooped it up out of the drain, and put it in a bag and drove myself to the hospital because my mom had to stay there with my kid. And I had a girlfriend from my hometown that was a doctor and she came and met me there. But until then I was just literally sitting in the waiting room bleeding and alone.

Victoria Volk 7:04
And you feel

Reena Friedman Watts 7:07
I don’t even know how to describe that loss.

Victoria Volk 7:10
Yeah I can’t even I can’t even wrap my head around it.

Reena Friedman Watts 7:13
It was crazy. And then you go in with the doctor, and they’re like, there’s nothing in there. After you’ve already seen something in there, right? So you just have to like, process that. And it was very strange. And then, you know, back to juggling being a mom and sharing that with your husband. And actually my husband was really emotional about it, too. You know, I think since he had a healthy baby, and we got excited for a little bit there. He actually cried. And then seeing how it affected him and kind of like made me feel better. I was like, Oh, good guy

Victoria Volk 7:53
Well, they agreed too right?

Reena Friedman Watts 7:55
He did he actually their own way, grandfather. Yeah, I remember that. And then the second time that had happened was after my third kid. And I’ll be honest, I was working too much, and not really taking care of myself. And you can’t blame yourself, but you do. And I had just produced a big event in LA, you know, and I was working 12 hour days that whole week. And I came back and it happened like days after. Again. I went to the doctor This time though, like it hadn’t come out. And so I saw on the screen, the baby with no heartbeat. And really that’s what they said. They said there’s no heartbeat. And that’s really all they said. And I was even thinking about this before we got on the call today. And I was talking to my dad about it actually. And I was like, I remember calling my dad first because he was so excited that I was pregnant and he felt like you know, wow, you can have one more before you’re 40 you know, like he’s really into having kids and you know, that’s your legacy. And he always wanted he had three sisters and three daughters and he always wanted to sign and he’s always been a big supporter of having more kids so he cried on the phone with me I’m so lucky to have emotional like hearing men in my life like and him crying actually like I cried with him and I felt better from that

Victoria Volk 9:28
I grieve together and that that’s the thing like we want to grieve to be able to grieve in community so you don’t feel so alone. So you feel supported and how makes a difference?

Reena Friedman Watts 9:39
A big difference.

Victoria Volk 9:42
I’m curious to like how you felt when you go to the doctor, it feels like such a sterile environment. And is there anything when you when they know you’re coming, and you’re going to have this experience? I’m just curious like how is do they is it still like that? Is it still feel like, is it? Oh, he’s gonna have the baby. You know what I mean? Like when you have a baby, it’s, yeah, it’s a sterile environment, it’s a hospital, it looks like a hospital feels like a hospital. But when you’re going through something like that, it’s like to have like soft lighting or to have a warmer environment, or do you know what I mean? Like not to say, you know what I mean, like not to set the mood, but just to feel less like a clinical situation and more of like, a supported.

Reena Friedman Watts 10:33
So I went to like a doula and a midwife, versus going to a doctor’s office, and the lady who had delivered my third baby, did come into the room and hugged me. And she didn’t even say much. But that really also helped. Because the nurse prior to her was just like, there’s no heartbeat, and I’m sorry, and she’s like, you can have the room for five minutes. Like, she was not compassionate. And that actually brought me to tears. But, and what else was really hard, too, is, I feel like there should almost be two separate waiting rooms, like the one for the people that are pregnant and rubbing their bellies and happy and things are going well. And then another room for the ones that things aren’t going according to plan. Because when you walk out and you’re like red faced, and just experience something like that, and you have like husbands holding their wives belly is and all of these happy people, you’re just you feel like a cancer patient, you feel like you’re doing the walk of shame past these people, it’s really a difficult situation.

Victoria Volk 11:47
You’re literally looking at the loss of hopes, dreams and expectations right in front of you. Right? Yeah, so I totally understand where you’re coming from, I don’t understand it. But it just brings to light like hospitals and facilities. And they need to rethink how they take care of families and women in these situations, definitely to consider how they’re showing compassion and empathy and with the environment with, do they even go through, like some sort of compassionate course. You know, like something, you know, I don’t know, I’ve never thought about this. But that’s why I’m bringing this up. Because if you’re in health care, and you’re listening to this, and you deliver babies, listen up, it leaves an impression on people, and it leaves an imprint on your heart, right?

Reena Friedman Watts 12:38
Oh, most definitely. And I had told you on the podcast that we did together, when I went to they make you get a blood test, to monitor that your hormones level are decreasing, to make sure that everything is going out of your body. And again, like the nurse said to me, you’re the abort, that miscarriage, like that kind of slip up when you’re in that state was really like a low blow.

Victoria Volk 13:10
I’m sorry, you had to experience it that way. Really, you’re not the only one. I’m sure you’re not the only one. And that’s the thing. It’s, and as you know, I know we talked about it, I think when I was on your podcast, so miscarriage is one of the most minimize losses. And I think it’s this lack of understanding, maybe even compassion because you haven’t experienced it or empathy. Because I do think when you’ve experienced some level of loss and grief in your life, you do look at other people’s loss and grief with probably more compassion than you would if you have never experienced something that way. Because you can, it’s a little bit easier, I think, to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. Not that you Not that I know what you feel like or have or felt like, but I can’t imagine. But I can empathize. And I think that’s missing in just the healthcare system, in the regard of miscarriage, just in talking to you and other stories to not yours isn’t. That’s the thing. yours isn’t the only one that’s like that, really about that experience. You had mentioned about hormones, and I know that there’s something you’d like to share about hormones more so from I actually before someone comes on as a guest, I have them fill out a form. One of the questions I asked is what would you like to scream to the world and rayna wrote hormones or hell. So would you like to elaborate on that?

Reena Friedman Watts 14:45
They Oh my gosh. They make you cry to the littlest things. It could be or you know, that’s why so many women are crying during pregnancy but you when you nurse your hormone levels are still off. This happen can happen like up till two years after having a child, your hormone levels are not the same. And you’re more emotional, you’re sleep deprived and the combination of the two. I don’t know if I had postpartum depression, but I can tell you my hormones definitely made me crazy.

Victoria Volk 15:25
While and you would have had, they’re kind of close in age to right? the first the first miscarriage and then your first child, it would have been a little close in age, right?

Reena Friedman Watts 15:35
They would have been around exactly two years.

Victoria Volk 15:39
But you were still nursing even to or you just finished nursing. So just the combination of that and then having insole like when you have a miscarriage, the fluctuation of the hormones, I can’t imagine too, it’s almost like your system goes into a shock as well. Like your body goes into a shock I Imagine.

Reena Friedman Watts 15:59
oh my gosh, yeah, I would love to like track my hormone levels. And in those four years, because I went from being pregnant to having a miscarriage to having another kid to nursing until my third kid came. I mean, I was like nursing and having babies for four years. And then my third get I nursed for another two years. So I

Victoria Volk 16:22
And on top of the grief, right? Like all of that, like on top of the grief.

Reena Friedman Watts 16:27
Which I didn’t even really process. I don’t think like you were saying grief compounds. And sometimes you don’t think about it until you have another grief or you have something that happens in your life. And you think about all of these things at once. Like when I had another miscarriage, it just brought me back to how I felt that first time I felt a little bit more prepared for the second one. But there’s nothing that can prepare you for hearing the words there is no heartbeat and seeing a baby on the screen inside of you that’s dead. There’s nothing that can prepare you for that. When someone says that to you. And when you see that image on a screen, it will knock your breath breath out. It’s unreal.

Victoria Volk 17:19
I have three healthy children and I’ve never experienced that and I my mama heart goes out to yours are nodding you’re just not even once but twice. Like I can’t even imagine.

Reena Friedman Watts 17:31
You know my sister got pregnant. I was pregnant with both of my sisters with the last miscarriage. So they ended up having babies and I lost a baby when they had one. And I have to say like one of my sisters wasn’t necessarily so excited about being pregnant. But when I went through that it changed her entire perspective. So I felt like in some ways maybe that was good. Like she was much more grateful for the healthy baby she was able to have

Victoria Volk 18:08
and sometimes that’s all we need to as a perspective shift right? To see what is in front of us as it’s really hard to like in those times to win after the second miscarriage and all these all the changes that you went through. Like Where was your gratitude? Like Where? How did you find it? How did you get through what helped you the most?

Reena Friedman Watts 18:35
I know it’s gonna sound buddy, but I called my dad from the hospital. He grieved with me like you said, he cried with me. He was I honestly feel like in some ways, and my husband my husband doesn’t like when I say it, but he is part of the reason why I chose to have another one. Because I saw how much he wanted me to Oh, he was like, I could still add wonder 39 you know, and his dad had passed away and he really wanted and I named the baby after his dad. So my dad’s my dad’s dad was Marvin and I took the second half of that then and I call my baby Vinnie because he’s like the second half of his life. So his legal name is Marvin but I call him Vinnie.

Victoria Volk 19:31
So you actually mentioned to your grandfather is it

Reena Friedman Watts 19:34
so my mom like I said had me very young and I was fortunate enough to grow up with all four of my grandparents. And we all lived in Kentucky very close together, got together for holidays and you know, performances and my grandparents were like second parents to me. I really spent a lot of time with them pretty much most weekends until Middle School. My parents love to pawn me off and send me there on weekends. But my grandparents ate that up. That was the generation that they came from. They love to spoil me. They love to take me shopping, they love to take me to the grocery and honestly, just watching Jeopardy with them, or spending time with them was I treasured?

Victoria Volk 20:22
That sounds like that’s a blessing. Yeah, I didn’t really grow up with grandparents. So that’s a grief of mine, you know? So I’m sure that’s a treasure for you. Did you want to speak a little bit more to your grandfather? I know that was one thing that you had mentioned you wanted to talk about?

Reena Friedman Watts 20:39
Yeah, so my grandmother just celebrated her 92nd birthday yesterday. And it’s four years without my grandfather, and they were married for over 65 years. I was just praying that she was going to make it to this birthday. It’s been it’s been a hard year for her to be alone, my dad actually flew out to see her. I feel like just seeing my grandmother, you know, he’s my first grandparent to pass away and seeing her start to, you know, age. Whatever you want to call it. I feel like it’s just now she’s a whippersnapper. But seeing her starting to slow down. I feel like it’s the end of a chapter and you feel like oh, my God, like then your parents are next in line and you start thinking about that. That’s been humbling. Lately, that’s been something I’ve been thinking about. What is it to be next in line? And is that going to be my dad? Am I going to be taking care of him? How long? Is he going to be able to stand on his own two feet? Is he going to be the grandfather that my grandparents were? And if not, that’s okay, but who is he going to be? What’s he going to be thinking about end of life?

Victoria Volk 21:57
How do you communicate? I’m curious to how you communicate that with your kids, because your kids are growing up with their great grandparents? I mean, what a blessing to you know, so how do you communicate? Oh, have you been communicating?

Reena Friedman Watts 22:12
Well, I make them call and wish her a happy birthday. And they see how I have a very special connection with my grandparents, they definitely know that they know that me losing my grandfather was hard. We actually found out on a Saturday night. And then the funeral is Sunday. And we drove all the way from Chicago to New Jersey through the night to be there. So they know how important that those relationships have been to me. But I feel sad in some ways that they’re not having as many memories, but I also believe that God gives you what you need, right? So maybe I was the kid that needed that. You know, my mom had me at 18. I had them a decade later. So maybe we’re different parents.

Victoria Volk 23:06
How did your dad communicate with you about grief?

Reena Friedman Watts 23:09
Oh my gosh, my dad wears his heart on his sleeve. Have we had a conversation directly about grief? I’m not sure if we have in regards to your episode, even he talks about how important it is to know yourself. And he has such a strong sense of self. And purpose. I actually envy that about him. He is so clear as to why he’s here and what his legacy is and who he is. And it’s funny because growing up I didn’t like that. I was like God, you don’t care what anybody thinks he is the guy that is literally happy with his lot. He doesn’t want to travel the world. He doesn’t want a bigger house. He doesn’t want fancier things. He is so happy with who he is and what God has given him. I really want to be more like that. So back to your question. How does he see grief? I think he really tries to make the best of life.

Victoria Volk 24:10
Well and I think to like just tell you explain how he wore his he wears his heart on his sleeve. And so that gives you permission to do the same. You may not have had a specific conversation about grief. But to be that example of showing your feelings and expressing your feelings as being okay. It’s like having the conversation without having it.

Reena Friedman Watts 24:35
Not only that, but he flew down to Florida to spend my grandmother’s 92nd birthday with her in a mask. He’s risking you know she hasn’t left her place in seven months and he wanted to make sure that she had the salmon dinner that she wanted you know, so he is with her and of days he is with her till the end. He is a soldier till the end. He’s with her I have to decline. And unfortunately, he calls her every day. He calls me every day, he tells me, I wouldn’t want to be in this life without you.

Victoria Volk 25:10
No wonder you have a podcast named better called daddy. It sounds like and that’s the thing, like, the examples that we have in our lives, definitely contribute to how we address and deal with our own grief and how we can then pass the torch and do the same for our children makes a big difference, to feel supported, to feel held to feel that it’s okay to not be okay.

Reena Friedman Watts 25:40
I just thought of something else. That’s funny, my grandmother said, you know, if you lay down and act like a doormat, in today’s day and age, people will step on you and use you as one, you better keep moving.

Victoria Volk 25:52
That’s a good piece of advice.

Reena Friedman Watts 25:55
Unfortunately, Drew, and she has been able to take care of herself, honestly, for the most part until 92 years old. I’m like Grandma, amazing, really, I even said to my dad is like that. She has done it as long as she can. And God loves her 92 she has been, you know, amazing. But she needs more help. It’s time, like she does. I’m like she cannot cook her meals anymore. You know,

Victoria Volk 26:22
How is she dealing with that? You know, how is she dealing with being faced with? Like, that’s great for her. I imagine. I mean, she lost the love of her life four years ago, and now she sees her mortality ahead of her. You know, does she How does she communicate that? Was she that example for your dad? Like, is this something that your dad learned? Like, how he deals with things life? Like? Has he learned that from her?

Reena Friedman Watts 26:53
That’s a great question. I will say that two days ago, or even a day ago, she said to me, and she’s never said this to me before. waking up every day is a gift and you hear that. But she feels that now. And it’s funny because at the end of my grandfather’s life, the last thing I remember him saying to me is how do you get more time. And I feel like when people start saying things like that, they’re definitely thinking about the next world,

Victoria Volk 27:20
You have such a unique perspective, because you do have your grandparents. And it’s this is I talk a lot about generational learning, especially when it comes to grief and how the things that we learn, you know, when we pass on, we pass on to our kids. And so that’s why I was very curious how your dad learned his philosophy of life.

Reena Friedman Watts 27:45
I would say it’s from his parents, for sure. I he had a great example. I mean, they were married, I think 66 years. And he worked alongside them for his entire career in a family business, not knowing how to do business, but he learned how to really relationship, build and sell and all of those things from them.

Victoria Volk 28:08
And like we said earlier, entrepreneurship. Oh, yeah, well, in a girl’s you, in so many ways, there’s a lot of benefits to it. So what is one tip that you would give other hurting hearts that may have experienced what you have? Or just in your business that you have been in the work that you have done? Like anything that you’ve learned along the way?

Reena Friedman Watts 28:37
Call my daddy you know.

Victoria Volk 28:41
Your dad maybe needs to put a hotline? What would daddy say? It’s true, Daddy say.com.

Reena Friedman Watts 28:51
Daddy’s taking questions, I really should put that at the end of my show. Um, I think a tip that I would give is find someone who you feel comfortable and not judged by that you can really open up to you. I think if I’ve learned one thing this year and through COVID it’s that and I heard someone say this on my podcast, you know, 50% of people are gonna like you. And those are the 50 that’s who you should be giving your attention to. Why spend your time on the people who are going to judge you spend the time on the people who love you.

Victoria Volk 29:26
That’s true. And that’s engraved too, right? Yeah, because in grief, you know, heart with yours. I mentioned it before. I’ve said it many times, to be a heart with yours. It’s not judging, analyzing or criticizing in a safe person to just hold you in your sadness.

Reena Friedman Watts 29:47
It makes all the difference. I’m telling you that doula who hugged me and said nothing. I felt okay. I felt better.

Victoria Volk 29:56
And that’s actually a tip I’m going to bring up a tip. So If someone is what we learn in grief recovery, and I’ll share this with you, and I’ll share it with everyone listening, when someone is grieving, and you go to hug them, you’re not released the hug until they do, because maybe they need that time. Maybe they just, you know, maybe they’ll start crying, maybe that’s what they need. But if you are giving them a hug, if you ask permission, yeah, hug you. Sometimes people don’t want to be hugged. But ask, you know, may I give you a hug. And if they want a hug, do not release the hug until they do

Reena Friedman Watts 30:35
You know what that just reminded me of this is so random. There is a woman who I kept running into, in Israel at the Western Wall, and God loved this woman. She asked me for charity every single time and I went there because I was on like a summer trip. And I must have run into her at least 10 times. And I think on the last day or something, I was getting ready to leave the country even. I sat down with her. And it was like you Tell me your story, you know? And she was like, Can you read my shoulders. And I remember her sweater being super crusty and hard. And I did it though. And then I listened to her story. And I remember hugging that crusty sweater at the end of it. And her actually like, holding on to me, I don’t know why your story just reminded me of that. But I felt better doing that than all of the money I had given her and all of those 10 separate occasions. I actually felt like close to her from doing that. It’s amazing what touch can do.

Victoria Volk 31:50
Absolutely. I love that story. Awesome

Reena Friedman Watts 31:54
It’s a crazy story. And I haven’t thought about that in years. I was like, why? And what else is interesting is like, there’s an exit ramp off the highway, and my dad always gives and I’m like, Dad, I’m like, it’s the same guy every day. Like, you know what I mean? Like, are you gonna run out? I’m like, he’s like, well, if God puts him in my path, and he’s got to ask, I gotta give and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I definitely learned that from him. But I’m a little bit more. I mean, with COVID, especially, but just more scared of people that my dad, my dad rolls down the window, and like, What if he could like, reach in or whatever, and I’m a mom of four. So I would give to an organization versus like the man on the street. But these are things that we learn right? back to that,

Victoria Volk 32:39
What is, I know you’ve said to like, just to have, you didn’t really have a lot of time. Now we’re going to go back to your experiences and stuff, but you didn’t have a lot of time to process. Do you feel like, I don’t know how many years? It’s been since but do you feel like that passage of time because people say, well, Time heals all wounds? That’s a myth, by the way, What has time done for you?

Reena Friedman Watts 33:06
So? That’s a good question. It’s really strange. But when you have a miscarriage early on, people are always like, oh, how far along were you? Not that that makes it any better like a lie. You know, once you know you’re pregnant, and once you see it, you’re excited, and you have all these emotions and all these hormones, but I have friends that have lost babies a lot farther along, I’ve had friends that have lost them full term, I have one friend who had to have a late term abortion because the baby’s head didn’t grow together. And I think if I were in a situation like that, I don’t know if I would ever get over it. My grandmother actually lost a full term baby, and she lost a baby in a month old. And I think that was devastating to her devastating to my grandfather, I think it’s something that they’ve never forgotten. I think when you lose one, in the first three months, maybe because both of mine were like that, I feel like you’re able to tell yourself that it’s from God and that, you know, I don’t know, you’re able to dismiss it more. It’s so small, it doesn’t really look or feel like a baby yet. To me, it looks like tissue, you know, and yes, I had contractions and yes, I had, you know, the feeling of being pregnant and you know, your emotions, all these things, but I think if I would have felt the baby move, or if I would have had to make that call, I think it would have been much more devastating. My two friends that experience that both had to get outside help, and they never had to before. One of my friends it was her first child and another one of my friends was actually pregnant with me this last time and it was her fourth child. Oh, that was really hard to because when I had the three pound baby and she lost a baby that was four and a half pounds, she said to me, how did you know to go in? And truthfully I didn’t. I just knew that I had missed a doctor’s appointment, my kid at a play like the week before, and I was like, I think I missed a doctor’s appointment. And as soon as I you know, you’re a busy mom of three or like, you forget things. So the moment I realized I had forgotten as a guide, I was like, this baby doesn’t move that much. I was like, the only time I really feel him is like when I go to sleep, or when I eat. So the next day I went in, and then when I went in, they told me that the heart rate was going up and down that the placenta was detaching, they were like, at my kid was home from school sick. They were like, you need to go to the hospital. And then they monitored me. And then they didn’t even tell me but they were like prepping me for a C section. And, you know, they make you sign the paperwork when you go in. And that was very emotional, too, because I had had three natural births. And I was like, really into, like, the empowerment of being able to do that. And I had to sign that away. And there, the baby would not have survived if I would have tried to do things differently. So I guess that’s a trauma in some ways.

Victoria Volk 36:13
Absolutely. Well, yeah, absolutely. And so that’s why I’m curious. And through the passage of time, how have you like what are things that you have done to?

Or do you feel like you’ve healed a lot

Reena Friedman Watts 36:28
I think talking about it really is healing. And truthfully, the more I talk to people on my show about experiences that they’ve had, there are so many people that are afraid to be vulnerable. I cannot tell you how many people have messaged me in DMS now from some of the stories that I’ve heard, telling me that they could never air those things. But they would love to talk to me and I said, let’s do it. I have a call next week with a girlfriend from college that I had no idea what happened to her. And she was like, I could never share this. And if I shared it, it would be anonymous, do you want to have a call and I’m like, I’d love to catch up with you. So I really do think that talking is healing. And I have been way more vulnerable than I planned to be just from other people being vulnerable. It makes you feel more comfortable.

Victoria Volk 37:21
When in grief recovery to I go first, like as a facilitator of the program, I go first. And, and that’s the thing, like you can’t expect other people to share and open up if you’re not willing to do the same. And I’ve shared things too, that I never thought I would you know, through just the past year.

Reena Friedman Watts 37:44
I know that we talked about that on my podcast, or like, I’m not talking about that. Have you been able to break through?

Victoria Volk 37:50
Not yet.

But me on the spot. This is my show. It’s hard. It is

It is hard. There are so many, so many things I’m passionate about in terms of when it comes to grief and trauma, and how trauma is like stored in our bodies. And so what you had said, you know, that experience of just the process of having to still like deliver a baby that you’re not going home with, and that just everything that you shared, that sticks in us that that stays somewhere, you know, mostly imprinted on us

Reena Friedman Watts 38:36
If he told me to go home and take a couple Advil and brace yourself. And hopefully it comes out and let us know if it doesn’t. And they’re like, and then just come back. And we’ll monitor that your hormone levels went down so that you don’t have to have a DNC and luckily, luckily, my body did make everything come out. But that’s a tough way of saying things. Go take a couple Advil and call me in the morning.

Victoria Volk 39:05
Yeah, it just comes again it comes back to just like having like some sort of compassion course or something for people that you know and is it I wonder if it’s not a little bit about something that they see so often you almost come become desensitized to it in a way and I imagine that’s great for them to to see that day in and day out in their career. Like Actually, this is a really like sad fact. But veterinarians, the suicide rate in veterinarians is actually quite high. It’s one of the highest professions of suicide, right? Because you they go into that profession because they love it so much. But what do they do day in and day out? They euthanize animals, they put animals to sleep, they see animal suffering. It takes a special person to be able to do that. And it takes a special person to Be able to sit with someone in a moment like such as yours. But I think too, there is a danger in becoming, as a society desensitized to something. And where it’s not normalized by communicating about it, and how to communicate about it. Right?

Reena Friedman Watts 40:22
So many scares along the way? I had a tear. So I since I had had a miscarriage before I was like, Oh, no, there’s blood, it must be a miscarriage, but I actually had a tear, and then the tear healed. And I also was 39. So, you know, they say, do you want to take additional tests? And the fact that I’d had a miscarriage before? So then Are you high risk, you know, there’s so many scares along the way. And, like, you were bringing up the sensitivity training. You know, it’s like, you get one little piece of good news. And then you’re like, has there been someone like me that has been at this point that is still heard bad news, you know, like, you want somebody to tell it to you straight, but at the same time, you’re like, can you prepare me like, Oh, it’s, Oh, my gosh, this child is such such a miracle.

Victoria Volk 41:23
I just had an idea. This isn’t too for like doctors offices, listen up. For people that for women that have to go in to, you know, like you said, you have to go into in certain watch women with their bellies full and happy. And you know, with the expecting a baby, and everything’s good, and all of that, and you’re sitting in the same waiting room, it’s like, not only to have your own waiting room, but then to have someone sitting with you like volunteers of women who have gone through it. Like, wouldn’t that be amazing?

Reena Friedman Watts 41:59
I actually have reached out to people in the community that have posted after a miscarriage, and said, Hey, if you need somebody to talk to you, I’ve been there. One thing about that, though, is depending on the person, and how far along they are, sometimes I’ve seen, they don’t feel like they can relate to you. So everybody reacts differently, like sometimes they can be happy that you’ve reached out and sometimes it can be offensive even.

Victoria Volk 42:32
That’s true. Well, and I think too, like it can’t just be someone who, you know, maybe, you know, maybe has had that experience, but maybe, maybe has had sensitivity training themselves, or has done some, like a grief recovery specialist, you know, or someone like I haven’t had a miscarriage, but I feel comfortable and competent in sitting with someone, regardless of their loss. But I can see where someone who’s going through that would want someone maybe that has had that shared experience. Even it’s funny. But similar,

Reena Friedman Watts 43:10
Even with divorce, like I was casting for a divorce court show, and I’m standing there with a baby strapped to my chest and beyond handing out flyers casting for the show. And they’re like, are you divorced, in order for somebody to want to open up to you about the trauma that they’re going through, even with something like that, they want to know, if you’re in the same boat

Victoria Volk 43:33
That comes back to we tend to compare losses in society, too. And, you know, well, I’ve lost a baby. And I lost my dad, you know, and so it’s their polar opposite losses, very different losses. In my experience, grief is grief. No matter which way you slice it. And my grief is my grief and your grief is your grief. And it’s going to be different and unique, because I’m unique, and you’re different and unique. We’re all unique, you know, and so our grief is no different individual to us. How do you feel the person that you were before you’ve experienced loss to the person you are today? How do you feel you have grown through grief?

Reena Friedman Watts 44:21
I do think that grief is an aging process. I think as a child, you can’t even really wrap your head around it. Like when I took my kids to my grandfather’s funeral because it was a quick overnight trip. We didn’t have time to make plans for them. And I wasn’t even sure I wanted to bring them. But what did my kids notice about that? They noticed the people who were the most vocal criers or you know as a kid, he just can’t even really process was happening. I was worried about bringing them because they were young and they were seeing somebody being put into the ground. And I hadn’t really ever talked to them about that. Oh, that is such a good question. I actually only think I’ve ever seen one dead person my entire life, because in the Jewish circles, everything is closed casket, but I had a friend growing up, they got hit by a drunk driver. And he had an open casket, I will never get that out of my mind. That was traumatizing, actually. And I have a girlfriend, who was a very close friend of mine growing up and her brother got hit by an older gentleman. And he was in his 20s. And I remember that grief on her parents faces, it was like their souls are sucked out of them. losing a child is such, especially a 24 year old was a grief I had never seen before. And I still remember how they sounded crying. I was in my 20s, though. So I think in your 20s, you’re able to start understanding it better and kind of get out of your selfishness. But in your 40s, I think you start thinking about life, and the meaning of your life. In reaction to death.

Victoria Volk 46:11
It goes back to when you had said, what was it that your grandma had said, every day as a gift every day is a gift, but to really for you to hear that for the first time it seemed and

Reena Friedman Watts 46:24
And hearing her saying that while shutting her eyes and saying it slowly and thoughtfully, was scary, and profound. And I was like, Oh my god, she is really thankful for every day at this point. And every day to her right now is a gift. Like we take every day for granted when we’re in our 20s. But when you’re at 92, and you’ve had a stroke and a heart attack, and you’re alone for seven months, and you’re only visitors coming for your birthday, when you say every day is a gift those words ring so much louder.

Victoria Volk 47:00
And I think too like even in her 40s take it for granted easily.

Reena Friedman Watts 47:06
I definitely do. You still go to bed mad? About silly things.

Victoria Volk 47:13
There’s no do overs either.

Reena Friedman Watts 47:15
Can I ask you one question? Sure. Do you love grief?

Victoria Volk 47:18
Grief is my jam. I’ve had a life long relationship with it lifelong. Every experience I’ve ever had, has prepared me to start a podcast about grief. It’s no longer like

Reena Friedman Watts 47:36
Hello, grief, my old friend.

Victoria Volk 47:39
We meet again, because it’s life, right? And that’s the joy and the sorrow. and everything in between is the duality of life. And we can’t escape it, we can’t get around it. We just have to go through it like a buffalo aces, like a buffalo faces a storm, they don’t. They go right through it, they don’t skirt around it, they don’t run away from it, they go through it. And I guess that’s the analogy I would give about grief is that there’s no way out. the only the only way out is through and whatever that looks like for you. And however you get to the other side of it. And you know, whatever tools you learn along the way, and whoever you talk to, and whatever shoulders, you rub and hear their stories, whatever you take away from them. Their perspective. There’s, we have so much to learn from each other. in society, and especially through our grief, and our grieving voices.

Reena Friedman Watts 48:42
I feel like there was grief in that woman’s sweater. And how crazy that she wanted me to touch her. She felt some sort of closeness for me giving her charity more than once. And for me running into her a bunch of times on that special summer on that special trip.

Victoria Volk 48:59
And you know what? how sad it would have been if it would have been somebody else. And they would have said, touching you not touching that sweater.

Reena Friedman Watts 49:09
I still remember what that felt like I don’t think I’ve ever done that. I’ve never felt that anywhere else.

Victoria Volk 49:16
You were a blessing to her that day.

Reena Friedman Watts 49:18
So crazy that God put her on my path. And what kind of grief She must have experienced.

Victoria Volk 49:25
And that brings up a good point because it’s it’s when we often see people who just look like they’ve seen better days. And you know, might even be angry. It might be the lady at the checkout line. It might be you know the boss that’s just really down your throat, whatever it is. I think it’s so easy to be reactive. Instead of thinking about well, what’s going on like what happened? How did you get to this place? How did you get to be so angry and What happened to you? Is we all have a story. We all have experienced grief on some level. Most of us I think, like 99.9. I mean, I don’t know that I’ve ever met somebody who has not experienced any loss. Whether it’s even just a pet, bankruptcy, financial ruin, lost a business, or maybe their house burned. I mean, we all experienced loss, we just don’t think of it as grief, because it’s not someone dying. But no one has to die for us to experience grief. And like I said, you know, on your podcast, you know, grief is cumulative, and it’s cumulatively negative. And so like, we have all these experiences that stack up and every one of us has a book within us, because that’s life. Like your grandma said, it’s every single day is a blessing and we can’t no joy without the sorrow. And maybe that was her message and saying that

Reena Friedman Watts 50:59
I should totally call her tonight. Yeah, do that. You know, it’s interesting to her English birthday is the same day as my Hebrew birthday this year. And that’s I don’t know if that’s happened before but my sister lives in Israel now. And she sent me that I was like, Wow, that’s really interesting that she made that connection. So I celebrated my birthday yesterday and I’m going to celebrate it again and two more days.

Victoria Volk 51:20
Awesome. Yeah, definitely call her

Reena Friedman Watts 51:24
Pretty cool. I don’t know how many times that’s occurred in her 92 years but pretty special as

Victoria Volk 51:30
Well. Is there anything else you would like to share?

Reena Friedman Watts 51:33
Check out my podcast.

Victoria Volk 51:35
Yes,

and where can people find you?

Reena Friedman Watts 51:39
Bettercalldaddy.com. All the past episodes are there and I am a LinkedIn a Holic so you can connect with me on LinkedIn at Reena Friedman Watts or Instagram Reena Freedman Watts or Facebook Rena Friedman Watts. I have been working on my

Victoria Volk 51:55
That’s W A T T S.

Reena Friedman Watts 51:57
Yes, Rena, with two E’s and watts with two T’s. I’ve been working on my branding that everything matches across platforms because I’m making it easier for people although my Twitter is still Reena Reena,

Victoria Volk 52:10
Reena Reena, I like that. Well, thank you so much for being here.

We covered a lot.

I don’t want in all kinds of directions today. And that’s I love that. never know what to expect.

Reena Friedman Watts 52:22
I love that too.

Victoria Volk 52:23
Well, thank you for being here and for sharing your story and putting me in the hot seat a little bit.

Reena Friedman Watts 52:31
I’m so excited to see like your whole evolution. It’s really awesome to be a part of it.

Victoria Volk 52:38
You’ve been such a supportive friend. So thank you. Thank you so much.

Reena Friedman Watts 52:43
Anytime, anytime, if you ever just want to talk. Yeah, give you a virtual hug.

Victoria Volk 52:49
Likewise. Alright, well, thank you, everybody for listening, and I’ll catch you next week with another episode. In the meantime, take care of yourselves. Much love

 

 

Ep 13 | Patti Herr

Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Miscarriage, Podcast, Postpartum, Pregnancy & Infant Loss | 0 comments

Patti H.: Widow, Miscarriage, IVF, and Grief Recovery Experience

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY: 

Patti shares her grieving voice on being a widow and how, despite moving on with life, her heart still grieves the loss of her first husband.

However, grief didn’t start for her there, and she touches on grief with the living, and later, a miscarriage, and her and her current husband’s shared experience with IVF.

Patti also shares what’s helped her get through the hard days, and how the Grief Recovery Method has helped her navigate her losses, and, be a supportive heart with ears for others.

Loss and grief accumulate throughout life. If Patti’s stories resonate with you, you can find her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/journey2babyherr2/

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If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.

If you’d like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to [email protected].

Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
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WAYS TO SUPPORT THE SHOW:

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA (@theunleashedheart):

Victoria Volk 1:35
Hey, everybody, thanks for returning to the podcast this week, I have a very special guest. Patty. She was one of the participants in my very first grief recovery method program group program. And she’s going to be sharing her grieving voice with you today. Patty, want to say hi,

Patti 2:00
hi, everyone. I’ve never done this before. So

Victoria Volk 2:04
no, this will be great. Just a conversation. Let’s start with what brought you to grief recovery. We’ll start there.

Patti 2:14
So I’ve had a lot of grief in my life. And I try not to let it well it It made me of who I am today. But I try not to let it lead my life. But I realized that I needed to work on some things. And I heard about this and messaged you about it and asked some questions. And I thought I might as well just give this a try. But it turned out to be something completely opposite of what I thought it was going to be. I thought I was going to be doing something about my husband and it turned out not to be that it turned out to be someone living in my life.

Victoria Volk 2:48
And when you how had you tried other things before to help process your grief?

Patti 2:54
I was kind of in the mood of I didn’t want to talk to a stranger like a counselor about someone about my husband who they didn’t even know. And so to me, I just kind of push that all the way. I guess so. No, I haven’t tried anything else.

Victoria Volk 3:13
Okay, so tell what would you say has been or was the hardest thing or has been the hardest thing about the loss of your husband because this this was actually your your first husband? Yep. And you’ve since remarried and a beautiful boy and another on the way and you’re happy now with you know great relationship share with our listeners how that transition from that loss and and what you experienced during that time. And in what could have been more helpful to you or what was helpful to you just kind of share a little bit more about that loss and then in the transition from that loss into where you are now in your relationship with your new husband.

Patti 4:13
So it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to go through. Um, I we hadn’t been married that long, a year and a half I think it was and just it was so tragic and fast. Like it was very unexpected. So he was only 32 years old and it was a four wheeler accident at work. So it was very unexpected. But I clung on to people that wanted to be around me and I kind of learned who my true friends were. Some people I lost friendships over this and it’s weird that you would think like I didn’t cause him you know his death or anything but I did lose friendships. family dynamics changed as far as his family and me um, and then just Just me as a person, I changed it. I think people say like, it kills a little bit of you. And I wouldn’t say it killed a little bit of me. But it definitely like changed how I thought about life and the way I lived life, I wanted to kind of get away from everything. So I applied for some different jobs and ended up moving to Asheville, North Dakota, I had only planned on staying there for about a year. And then I wanted to move south I wanted to move to Tennessee where one of my best friends lives or just somewhere near there, like I just wanted to, I wanted, I didn’t have my family anymore, I didn’t have my husband. So I wanted to have the career. I ended up meeting my now husband, and we had gotten pregnant then. So I have a little boy, he’s now four. And now we have had to do we’ve had to deal together with secondary infertility, which to me is kind of like another loss. We suffered a miscarriage a year after our first was born. And then just going through the infertility was tough, and we learned a lot from each other. And it wasn’t perfect. We weren’t perfect in our stuff, I guess in our lives, like with how to deal with that infertility, secondary infertility, and then we ended up deciding to do IVF and now we are pregnant about halfways pregnant with our little girl. So life now I still Six years later, I still grieve my first husband, and I always will, I will always greet him, it’s just the way I grieve is a little different now. And I the way I like to what helps me is I like to help other people who’ve experienced the loss of someone and maybe it’s just me going out to lunch with them or having a conversation and not everyone wants that. But I reach out and if they want my friendship, then that’s fine. Um, I hate that they that we have that connection. But it is what it is in life is what it is. And that’s the way I guess I I have grown as a person is helping others with loss. So but now Yeah, I mean, I still grieve him Six years later, and I’ll grieve him for everyday for the rest of my life. But it’s just a little different now and I am happy. Um, but I still grieve him so

Victoria Volk 7:23
Well, and because grief doesn’t end because we still I mean, you loved him, obviously. And that doesn’t just go away, right? we grieve because we love and in being through going through grief recovery method, you know that grief is the loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. And despite all the joy that you have in your life right now, it you know, um, can you speak to is it what might have been? What could have been? Or what was like, you know, these unexpected losses that you said occurred because of that loss? You know, the things that you experienced because of that loss? Can you speak to that a little bit?

Patti 8:16
Um, yeah, I just

Victoria Volk 8:18
Friendships that you love. Yeah, things like that.

Patti 8:20
I just think you when I just think like the loss of expectation. So you think that you’re not going to lose those friendships? Do you think that you expect things to go differently, like I did not expect to get married again, I did not expect to fall in love. But I was young. And that’s just what happened. And I’m so thankful. And I thank God every day for who I did fall in love with because he is so understanding of my whole journey with Jared and everything, like my first husband. So I’m very thankful for my husband now that he is truly understanding of that, and maybe he doesn’t understand it or, but he’s there and he supports me through it all. So I’m very thankful for that.

Victoria Volk 9:06
And that is huge, right? It’s he, I know in grief recovery, you learn to about being a heart with yours. So he sounds like he is that for you.

Patti 9:15
Is my heart with yours? Yes,

Victoria Volk 9:17
Yeah, that’s special. So what would you like to say to the world about or wish that people knew about your grief?

Patti 9:31
I like to tell people all the time, grieve, how you want it as long as you’re not hurting yourself or others. How long you want it I just feel like there should be no timeline on it. You can grieve as long as you want. grieve as short as you want. I just don’t think there’s any right or wrong answer, but I just don’t think that as a widow or someone who’s lost someone, like don’t let people tell you how to grieve and how long to grieve and I just remember feeling like I can’t sit at home and cry. I can’t be out in public and smiling and anyone be happy with that. So I was just going to do things for me. And I didn’t care what people thought, if I wanted to be happy that day, I was gonna be happy. If I wanted to cry, I was gonna cry, and I still have those days where I just want to cry, or I just want to be happy. So I call them my Jared days.

Victoria Volk 10:24
Well, and like grief, you know, this that just like going through the grief recovery method, having experienced it, it comes in waves, right? It’s gonna come and it’s gonna go. But the important thing I think our listeners hear is that you have not allowed these expectations placed on you by societal norms of, you know, we learn in grief recovery, that one of the myths of grief is Time heals all wounds. Right, you know, and I know that time just passes, it’s what you do, and the action that you take within that time. Now I know the relationship with your husband is not one that you have worked on through recovery yet. But, you know, once you go through this method, and as you know, you have these tools to use whenever at your disposal, what resonated with me early on in my healing journey and night, we kind of talked about it briefly before we started recording is that healing takes time. And investment in ourself, takes time. And we can get really busy in life, children, work, careers, jobs, husbands, you know, all these distractions pulling at us and, you know, screaming at us for their for their time, you know, I’ve got three kids and a husband, day job and a side hustle. And so it’s like, all these things. But there’s one thing that I’ve learned is that even if I take one hour a week, even just one hour a week to just read something that will inspire me, that will motivate me to reach my highest potential or dig a little deeper into what I’ve been feeling. Sometimes that’s all it takes to to create momentum and things and, and so are there any practices that you’ve been doing since grief recovery to help you keep that, at the top of your mind? Maybe it’s not necessarily priority right now, because you’ve had a lot of things that you’ve been, you know, have really been more of your focus, you know, with the, you know, a new baby, you’re growing a baby, like, that’s a lot of work. And, and it’s taxing on the body, too, right? It’s like it’s exhausting to grow baby. All you resonate mothers. And you already have a child a boy. And so I know there’s all these things in your life that take your time now, but is there anything that you could even if it’s just a micro thing, like something small? What is helping you on days where you’re having those Gera days, or when you’re feeling a little overwhelmed by life, or you’re feeling just emotionally taxed a little bit? Is there anything that you’re doing that is helping you on those days?

Patti 13:34
I know that maybe I’m doing it a different way than like reading something. But I think my way of doing it would be talking like having conversations, like deep conversations with people, and I’ve had quite a few lately, and I’m not really sure why. But my friends, they didn’t hear they didn’t know Jared, but they still ask me questions about it. Like, how did you feel like, what did you do? And they just listened to me, but they still, like want to know, too, you know, and I think for me, like, you guys really should get, you know, your life insurance figured out or like a will or something because you just never know. Like, we’re getting older and things happen. And it’s just life and it sucks. And you don’t want to think about that stuff. But we didn’t either when my husband passed away, so I think having those deep conversations, we have feeling conversations, like I’ve just been having a lot of that lately. Um, and then just like I drive a half hour on my way home, so I feel like I decompress and I’m like, Okay, my workday is over and now I need to focus on other things. So that half hour to work and, you know, on the way back, I feel like I get to reflect a lot and I get to reflect a lot by having these conversations with people. So that’s kind of my way, maybe not so much journaling or reading something, but just the deep conversations with people.

Victoria Volk 14:54
I just got body chills because that, yes, that totally resonates with me because I think in, specially in grief we get, like, it’s so easy for society just even in general to do have like the surface level conversations like, you know, talk about the weather. Yeah. Let’s talk about grief, like we talk about the weather and maybe I got to change that because that really brings to light like, well, I want to go when I say that, let’s talk about grief. Like we talked about the weather, it’s more like, let’s just make it a daily conversation. Let’s make it. Let’s make it part of the conversation, right? But when we actually just talk about the weather, we’re just really scratching the surface, right? It’s like, what lights you up? You know, if someone were to ask you that, like what lights you up? I know I if I I’ve asked some people that in my circle, they kind of look at me like I have two heads. You know, it’s like you kind of can see who you can have deep conversation with. Oh, yeah, I hear it. Yeah. And oftentimes, I find it’s people who have an awareness around what they’ve endured in their life and how it’s impacted their life. Both pilot

Patti 16:15
Might not even be like, serious, they might not even be like serious as losing someone but just like, even though I’ve lost a husband, I feel like I can relate to other people that were in my group that never actually like lost someone. Like I appreciate them more. Yeah, yeah, our grief is similar, but we can still talk about it. Like it’s the same but it’s not. I don’t know.

Victoria Volk 16:37
Well, it wouldn’t be right because every relationship is unique and individual and that’s the beautiful thing about deep conversation right is we can see things from a different perspective that is impossible for us to see it because we haven’t experienced it. So I really resonate when you say that like deep conversation really jazzes me to like it lights me up. Yeah,

Patti 17:01
I’d rather talk about it then journal it, I guess my hand gets tired.

Victoria Volk 17:06
But that’s a that’s an excellent tip, thank you for sharing that. I think that’s a really a really valid, useful point to make. And also to like, you know, 30 minutes and a commute. Like I travel a lot with my day job. I love podcasts. I love listening to podcasts during that time stuff that’s going to feed my brain stuff that’s going to motivate me or inspire me or you know, what encouraged me to strive for for just to be better and who I am and live my life more aligned with what I value and I think would you agree that kind of grief does that for us like it kind of just really it’s kind of like a it’s a reset button for our soul? Maybe it’s a reset button for for our lives in a lot of ways like on another interview we talked about how it just it’s it’s like this clarifier clarifies things so in what ways do you feel like your grief has clarified things for you in your life?

Patti 18:17
So sometimes I feel like people dot not that they take it for granted but they just don’t realize like, well and sometimes I catch myself too if I’m complaining like oh, my son’s being so naughty today like someone come take him. But then I think of the person who lost their four year old son and I’m like they don’t they wish they would have that. And so I think of that too. Like, I try not to complain like when I’m complaining I just like have to decompress and be like, okay, I don’t have it bad. Like, I can handle this people. Like I wish I could fight with Jared like I fight have fights with Barrett like. So I just try not to take some of that stuff for granted. And I like try and think like, okay, life really isn’t that bad. I’ve been through bad. And people other people have been through are going through worse things. And I should just be grateful and thankful for what I have in my life right now. Like I am very thankful that we got to go through IVF and we did get pregnant because it doesn’t always work for everyone. And I’m thankful for the way that that journeys been and led us and I’ve helped a lot of people because of that other women who are going through it other men who are going through it. So I just have to try and feel thankful for my time right now.

Victoria Volk 19:32
I just had an inspired that. Perhaps you have Barrett want to start a podcast.

Patti 19:41
I actually listened to infertility podcasts. And I love hearing other women but I don’t know I would rather them reach out to me it’s still like an unspoken thing. Like people. A lot of people don’t want to talk about it. Other people want love to talk about it. So it’s just like if I let the women come to me or the men come to me, so

Victoria Volk 19:59
That’s wonderful that you’re willing to share in that way because and also having you bring a unique perspective to that too. I think just because you’ve gone through grief recovery, and you have this, it’s not even inside knowledge. It’s just new knowledge, right?

Patti 20:19
It’s not talked about, like you don’t need people don’t talk about it. So other like women don’t know, like, if they just have a simple, like a simple thing wrong with their hormones or something, it might just be a pill they have to take, you know, and that’s not huge, but other people need more in their lives as far as the infertility side of it. So to me, it’s like if I can just get them to go to the doctor and see what’s wrong, it could be something so simple, you know, and then they could have that baby and things like that. I just want to be inspiring for people.

Victoria Volk 20:50
Well, you’re starting here on Instagram, actually, I just want to before I forget and before we get into some other conversation, but where can people find you where you’re sharing your story with infertility that where they can reach out to you where where can

Patti 21:06
I did start with Instagram because there are some people in my life that don’t don’t feel comfortable talking about IVF and infertility and they just don’t feel comfortable. So I started with Instagram, haven’t been updating it in a while. But my Facebook, my personal Facebook, too, like, if you want to message me on there, add me as a friend. I mean, I can tell if you’re fake or not so

Victoria Volk 21:28
But where where can people find you on Instagram then a journey to baby hair too journey to baby hair too and I’ll put it with a number twos. Number two, yeah, I will put that in the show notes. Okay. Okay, so let’s move on to what would be one tip that you would give other hurting hearts today.

Patti 21:56
Um, if you some people I feel like that I’ve known now since I’ve been become a widow. They maybe don’t need as much help, I guess outside help. But I thought the grm course was very good for me. And I’m glad that I found it but I was five years later, you know. But I feel like if you have a good support system, like find your support system, it doesn’t have to be family, it doesn’t have to, I don’t know, I just if you want to find other widows or maybe not, maybe they don’t want to have to be other widows or widowers, but just find someone to be able to talk to finds people who are supportive of everything you’re doing. That’s and then just don’t let anyone tell you how to grieve or how long to grieve because you’re going to do it at your own pace. And maybe you don’t want to grieve that long maybe you don’t want to feel the way you do so then you just need some extra support. So have a good support system. And I feel like the ladies that I actually took the class with they are gonna have a special place in my heart for the rest of my life so whether we don’t talk every day or we do you know, I haven’t talked to some of them in a long time. But I feel like I could just pick up the phone and call them and they would answer so I am thankful for that.

Victoria Volk 23:09
That was a very for those that don’t know or aren’t aware but yeah, it was my very first group and it was one it was just a really really good experience for me. I yeah, it was it meant everything to me and it really set the stage for the work that I’m doing and still continue to do and launching the podcast and just so thank you for sharing that because you help spread the message to that grief recovery is a valid option for people to move beyond loss and grief. So share with the listeners if you wouldn’t mind the relationship with someone living for example it wasn’t someone that you went you didn’t work on a relationship with someone living in the in the grief recovery group program when we went through with the other individuals but what do you feel like when you when you after you gone through that method and you were looking at the relationship with with the people living in your life? What do you feel like was one thing that you that came out of that like what did what was an awareness or something like how did going through grm connect the dots for you in other relationships I guess having not yet worked on those relationships.

Patti 24:29
So I’ve just learned like, I can forgive people and I can mend that relationship with myself in them but not necessarily them in person. But I I only allow them to hurt me so much. Now so like I put my family first my child first so I don’t let some of those living people around us not that I don’t let them around but I just only let them So much and I know how to now handle if our relationships like I understand now why my relationship with that living person is the way it is and how I can deal with it um there’s something called PS letters and I know that for the rest of my life I will have p s s s s s s s letters with that living person so

Victoria Volk 25:20
And so what it kind of sounds like to me is that you’ve really established where you needed boundaries for yourself and your family around that relationship around those people living your life would you agree? Yes, yeah.

Patti 25:36
I took responsibility for our relationship I guess well on my end that person needs to do the rest

Victoria Volk 25:43
Right yeah, we can only work on ourselves that’s all we have control over and and one way that we can protect our energy and protect our our hearts is to create those boundaries of you know, it’s just a buffer right create like this protective shield around ourselves and it’s not to keep them out. Right?

Patti 26:05
Right. But it’s not pushing them away.

Victoria Volk 26:08
Right. It’s to protect what’s inside us within that boundary including our loved ones right? Because doing that is actually a form of self care I I’ve learned that when we create boundaries for ourselves and for you know what matters to us. That is self care and action

Patti 26:29
And how to do that with quite a few relationships now and I believe grm helped with that so

Victoria Volk 26:34
Excellent. Yeah, cause you it’s an educational program you’ll learn so much

Patti 26:39
You focus more on the tools and like I thought it was going to be more on like, I had to sit there and talk about my relationship. No, it was more based on you gave us tools how to handle situations or things or relationships. So

Victoria Volk 26:52
Yep. And every day every every week actually is like a little puzzle piece right? kind of goes together. Did you see it coming? Like in the first two weeks, like were you like, what did I get myself into?

Patti 27:05
I know there was a few of us that were little like we pushed back a little bit in the first weeks because we were like, We want to see results now. But I think in the end we were all very happy with how it went. So

Victoria Volk 27:17
It takes takes time. And because there’s so much content, there’s so much information like our brains couldn’t even really like you know, my brain had to take it all in like a matter of days. But in the Grievers mind and a Grievers heart can’t just it’s that’s not for everybody it’s really not and so that’s why it’s broken down into little chunks of information to that builds every week kind of like algebra it’s like algebra builds up every week of you know every lesson after lesson but

Patti 27:50
And I just feel like anger is just like for me it was has always been a part of grief and I think I was like pushing back because I was angry I didn’t know why I was feeling that way and that class made me feel certain things that I didn’t know I was gonna feel and so I was just pushing back a little bit but then it all buffed out in the end so

Victoria Volk 28:11
Yep it really helped you to process the anger and stuff Yeah,

Patti 28:16
Gave me the tools to do that.

Victoria Volk 28:17
Is there anything else that you would like this is your opportunity your grieving voice to share is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners today?

Patti 28:27
Just that grief can come in many forms like in my situation I thought that this whole time you know is going to be about Jared and it was about someone living but it is about Jared too it’s about at all and I just learned that it’s crazy how we can grieve living people we can grieve people who are gone we you know it’s just I think everyone is going to grieve someone or something in their lives whether they actually lost them or not. So

Victoria Volk 28:55
So I just had a thought come to my mind which I think is very important that we bring up because you got to IVF because you had a miscarriage and miscarriage as you know through grief recovery is one of the most minimize losses Do you feel like I’m I’m it’s this is me and my curiosity and we’re just you know, this is on the cuff off the cuff but do you feel like the education that you receive through grief recovery had set you up to help you process that loss in particular that? Yes, I for your husband as well

Patti 29:35
Yeah, we grieved it differently and I think some people don’t think that the men grieve it this and we don’t grieve it the same but I feel like men they just don’t think that they grieve it like women do but my husband grieved the loss of that baby and we both did and we still do we still look at around town and think our child should be that age and running around with that kid and it’s it is hard and but We’ve grown as a couple and individuals and I think even though he didn’t take the class what I have talked about like he is also taken into heart and understands a little bit so yes

Victoria Volk 30:13
Yeah and you know because grief is cumulative as cumulatively negative I think I say this on every episode but it’s so important right because if you think about like all the losses that you’ve had and you know that during this work like we you look at every loss and put in front of you, you look at it literally look at it all it could be easy to just lay back on you know, just lay down in life and just give up and just like I can’t take another thing I cannot take another thing like it’s just you know, because it stacks up one after the other. Someone who has gone through a miscarriage. What do you feel like they can do? I know you mentioned about finding your support, which is amazing. But what is it about miscarriage in particular? Because I don’t have personal experience with that. I don’t. But what is something that if I came to you and I said that I had this miscarriage? What do you feel like is the best piece of advice that you could give me?

Patti 31:25
I would just be there for you right away, like how are you doing with it? And then if you want to talk about it, then I would be that you know, listening heart with yours. But I catch myself saying, Oh my gosh, they were that far along. Or you know, at least it wasn’t after the first trimester. Like I catch myself saying that and I’m like, but I miscarried in the first trimester. And I do feel like it was just as hard as losing us like a full term baby like, I still went through the labor I still miscarried my baby like I still. It was still a person it was even though I only miscarried. And I was like 12 I was 12 weeks, but the baby died earlier. Um, I don’t know. I just, I think you got to talk about it if you want and reach out to people who have miscarried because most likely, almost every woman has had a miscarriage like most women have, and you would never know, my grandma had like five of them. So just to I talked to her I just talked to her the other day about miscarriages like back in her day to like, they just didn’t talk about it. And you don’t have to, but if you need to, there is support out there. And my question like now that I’ve gone through IVF is why, why are you miscarrying you know, if you want to do that, like if you want to have another baby, I will be there for you. And I will answer any questions that you need, like how to get started about going to the doctor. It could just be something so simple, which is sad that you had to go through a miscarriage because of that, and I would never wish a miscarriage upon anyone, because it’s awful. Um, but just, I don’t know, don’t just blow it off. Like it’s just something little because it’s not even if he miscarried at six weeks, like it’s still a miscarriage.

Victoria Volk 33:19
Exactly. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I agree. A baby is a baby. Life. Do you feel like and I don’t know, like, Can you speak to this a little bit to like that part of the problem is maybe the fact maybe why it is one of the most minimize losses is because it is not talked about because it is such a, maybe it is because people do people have this feeling you think that is so common? Like it’s,

Patti 33:47
Well, it’s one in four, one and four is that like, that’s what they’re saying one in four. And for me, I tried minimizing it by saying, you know, it’s one in four, obviously, there was something wrong with it, it couldn’t grow anymore. So you know, it kind of is a blessing, but it’s still a loss. Like whether it’s a blessing or not like whether 94 year old person dies, and it was a blessing, it’s still a loss. A loss is a loss. And if you want to feel sad about that loss, whether they’re 94 years old, or six weeks in the womb, like I just think you got to feel it.

Victoria Volk 34:18
I think that is a great place to end. A loss is a loss. And you just got to feel it. I love that. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Patti, for sharing your story of loss of you know, being a widow, miscarriage IVF just the losses we can experience with those living in our lives, for sharing your experience through grief recovery, for sharing that with whomever you cross paths with in your daily life. It means the world to me to spread this message that there is hope that there is something there that can help Have you have a new perspective on grief? I think that’s really kind of what it comes down to is that it doesn’t have to define the rest of your life. It doesn’t have to be the driver of your life. I think you were doing wonderful things by sharing your story with people being a heart with yours for others. We need more of that definitely in our society. So thank you for being that for people and for being on the podcast today.

Patti 35:30
Thank you for having me.

Victoria Volk 35:31
Absolutely. Again, I will have in the show notes where you can find Patti if you want to reach out to her on the topics of IVF being a widow or miscarriage, and until next time, much love Take care.

From my heart to yours, thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because Sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.

Pregnancy & Infant Loss Awareness

Child Loss, Grief, Miscarriage, Postpartum, Pregnancy & Infant Loss, Resources | 0 comments

pregnancy infant loss awareness

October brings to mind pumpkin spice latte, fall colors, and National Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Also, October is also not just about breast cancer awareness, but it is also National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness month, which was established in 1988 by former President Ronald Reagan.

At the time, Reagan said: “When a child loses their parent, they are called an orphan. When a spouse loses her or his partner, they are called a widow or widower. When parents lose a child, there isn’t a word to describe them. This month recognizes the loss, so many parents experience across the United States and around the world. It is also meant to inform and provide resources for parents who have lost children due to miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, molar pregnancy, stillbirths, congenital disabilities, SIDS, and other causes.” Also, October 15th is World Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Day.

The number of people who face this loss is staggering!  The American College of Pediatricians noted the statistics from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services earlier this year:

  • 1,000,000 pregnancies end with the loss of a baby through miscarriage or stillbirth each year (nearly 1 in 4).
  • 24,000 infants die each year in infancy.

Each of these deaths creates multiple grievers.  It is not just the parents who are impacted; the grandparents, siblings of that child, other family members grieve the loss as well and close family friends.

The American College of Pediatricians points out that this silent suffering can continue for years or even decades. Anyone who does grief recovery work would also agree with that statement. All too often, grievers receive little or no support to help them deal with this emotional pain. Considering miscarriage is one of the most minimized losses, it’s understandable there would be a whole lot of silent grievers out there.

The Emotionally Painful Things People Say

Friends and other family members may think that they are supportive, but all too often, the things that they say come off as intellectual comments rather than emotionally sensitive ones.

Typical, unhelpful comments include:

  • You can always have another child
  • At least it happened early
  • God needed another angel in Heaven
  • Next time will be better
  • At least you have other children
  • I know how you feel
  • Grief just takes time

Ask any parent who has lost a child if any of these comments made them feel better.  Most, if not all, will answer with a resounding “NO!”  No child is “replaceable,” so the idea that they might have another child does little or nothing to relieve the pain of losing this one!

People never intentionally mean to say hurtful things to grievers!  Very few of us have been educated as to “the right thing to say” in this situation or any other grief causing event. Furthermore, others that are worried about saying “the wrong thing” often say nothing at all.  The absence of acknowledgment can leave these grievers feeling that their deep emotional loss isn’t important or painful.

Time Heals Nothing

People often say that “Grief just takes time.”  It would be wonderful if this were the case or that there was a time table to grief.  Unfortunately, this is not true; time does nothing but pass. Over time, a griever becomes accustomed to carrying around that emotional pain deep inside. Grievers “silently suffer,” because no one is there to offer an effective way to deal with it! It’s action taken within time that matters most! While there may be a number of “support groups” in your community or online, many of them support you in expressing your pain. However, few offer few, if any, assistance in helping you to take effective action to move out from under the cloud it has cast over your life. If you are, however, looking to connect with those who’ve “gone before you;” navigating a similar and devastating loss such as miscarriage or an infant, click here to find support, if you’re not finding it in your community.

How You Can Take Action to Move Forward 

In addition to the link provided above, if you are suffering the pain of having lost a child, check to see if there is a Grief Recovery Method Support Group in your area.  Unlike most other support groups, this program offers a truly effective action plan for emotional recovery.  It is not about forgetting your loss, which you will never do, but instead teaching you the necessary tools to deal with the pain in your heart!

John W. James, a Vietnam veteran and creator of this program, lost his first son within days of his birth and struggled with his grief after that loss.  Rather than just giving in to that pain and carrying it with him for the rest of his life, he searched until he found a recovery solution that worked.  He discovered a way to say “goodbye” to the dreams and expectations he had for the life of his child, without letting go of the joy these dreams had brought to his heart.

The Best Thing You Can Say 

In any grief situation, perhaps the best thing to say is: “I cannot begin to imagine how you are feeling. I’m here to listen if you would like to talk about it.”  If you experienced a similar situation, you might add how you remember what it felt like to you, but that you wish to understand just what it is that they are feeling. After that, listen without analysis, criticism, or judgment. Realize that there is nothing that you can say that will “fix” the situation and make it better!

Reach out to anyone you know who has suffered such a loss and let them know that you are thinking about them and care! That’s the simplest way you can be supportive!

On a personal note, I’ve never experienced a loss such as these and I cannot even wrap my head around what these losses feel like. We are never supposed to out-live our children, regardless of how long they’re heart was beating. A beating heart is a human being with a soul and it hurts when the opportunity to watch their soul be fully expressed is lost. Not to mention, all of the hopes, dreams, and expectations, too. My heart goes out to you if you’re reading this and you’ve experienced a loss such as these. Never lose hope of recovery – it is possible. John James is living proof; he has created a gift that keeps on giving – for himself and for the world.

*This post is adapted from The Grief Recovery Institute blog.

much love, victoria

P.S. Are you interested in learning more about the grief recovery programs I facilitate? Email me at victoria [at] theunleashedheart [dot] com. Do you want to be the first to know of the next group starting? Sign up for my newsletter that’s filled with content not shared anywhere else. News, Grief Recovery related info, and insider [personal] info is shared with my fellow hurting heart tribe first! Newsletters go out each Wednesday, so click here to join me >>>  Or, perhaps you prefer one-on-one? We could start one-on-one as soon as you’re ready if you’re local to me! Get in touch for more info.