Ep 115 | Martika Whylly

Martika Whylly | Learning How to Grieve with Ease

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

They say it’s unnatural for a parent to outlive and bury a child. Likewise, it’s not natural for a child to bury their parent.

There is no hierarchy of loss. We all grieve at 100%, and there are no half-grievers. Therefore, all losses are felt at 100%, too. So, who’s to say what loss is worse than the next? However, for a moment, put yourself in the shoes of a child who buries a parent. Often, there’s another parent in the wings to comfort and console the child. But that’s not always the case.

Martika’s mother completed suicide when she was 15. And this experience followed a circumstance of abuse in the home at the hands of Martika’s stepfather. So, by the time she experienced the death of her mother, she had plenty of grief she was trying to deal with already.

The loss of her mother would lead Martika down a dark path of suicidal ideation. All the while, her grandparents passed away, and she found her biological father. However, when she found her father, she learned he died two days before.

With the loss of everyone she cared about, though, she did gain a whole family – her biological father’s family. But, as life does, it includes death, and Martika lost another special person in her life, her young cousin, by suicide.

Martika had to learn to surrender, and once she did, she found ways to strengthen her faith and spiritual life and gain a renewed sense of hope. She shares things that helped her along her path and lessons that have helped her to remain present while she longs for the after-party that awaits her when she’ll be united with those she loves once again.

When the dominos of loss fall, perhaps it will help you to know that you can’t kill energy, as Martika shared. You also can’t take from someone who also has. And from Martika’s experience, it is possible to grieve with ease.

RESOURCES:

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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

 

Victoria Volk 0:00
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Martika Whylly. She is an author podcaster and grief coach, her path to become a grief coach became clear sometime after she wrote the book, having fun with God, a personal journey about death loss, and how she’s handled grief that transcended into peace of mind. Thank you so much for being my guest today, Martika.

Martika Whylly 0:26
Thank you so much, Victoria for having me. It’s an honor.

Victoria Volk 0:28
I know from reading just your information that you shared with me that and as you know, obviously, from your personal experience, and I as well. And for many guests that I’ve had on here, grief usually isn’t just doesn’t come once in our lifetime. And often, by the time we reach adulthood, we’ve maybe had several that we may not even think about, you know, a pet loss for one, in early in childhood is usually often a first loss. So let’s start in your childhood, and the losses that you have experienced along the way and how they’ve shaped you.

Martika Whylly 1:04
Hmm, well, thank you for letting me share. My first loss was when I was 15 years old, and my mom committed suicide, I had no experience with death or loss at that time. So it hit me pretty hard. It was really didn’t want to live anymore, I was quite suicidal. I had a divine experience that prevented me from killing myself. And, but her death kind of had a domino effect. Because her mom, my grandmother took her death pretty hard, I think she might have felt that guilty. You know, because there was, you know, events leading up to her committing suicide, you know, people sometimes do reach out for help. And, you know, if others don’t see it as well, you can get over it, you know, it’s not a big deal and that sort of thing. And then then they lose the third child, even though she was an adult, it was just a bit of a domino effect. Like my Nana, she had an asthma attack. And then, two years after her death, my my grandfather passed away, he just kind of gave up living. So it was like cataracts. And then it was, you know, his kidneys and it was his liver, you know, when once a major organ starts going in, you know, at the age of, you know, in his early 70s, you know, you know, when some of these kind of given up and that’s they want to go right, you cannot try to save people in that aspect. You have to respect okay, that, you know, he would always say, you know, I’ve lived a good long life and, and here’s what I want you to do with the money that you’ll inherit and that sort of thing. And then about two years after my grandfather died, my uncle died in a car accident, he was pretty young, he was 42, which was interesting, because my mom was also 42 When she died. And so after my uncle passing, I realized, you know, I don’t have a lot of family. On my mother’s side. It’s a smaller knit family. So I decided to find my father. My parents divorced when I was young, I was both three years old. And so in search of my father and I knew he had been he was at from the Bahamas. So he’d be in the Bahamas, some somewhere. And it’s a fairly small compared to Canada. So I didn’t think it’d be hard finding him. But it took two months to find him. And when I did, I was informed that he died two days ago. So I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. You know, I thought what, you know, I wondered about God, I’m not religious, but I do believe in spirit. So. But when my father had passed, that’s when I realized I had, excuse me, four older sisters, and they had children. And so it was interesting. I had lost all of these people, it’s family members, but then also gained family members. And you know, sitting with that, because the voice did say, God doesn’t take away without giving back. And I thought, Okay, well that that makes sense. To me. At the time, I was still kind of devastated. But I got to meet all four my sisters and their children. And it was like instant family going from, you know, raised in a small knit family, to having like, several siblings and then their kids and then cousins and you know, just extended family. It was like, Whoa, trying to meet everyone. remember their names? It was it was it was quite, it was quite something it kind of took away from all the grief of the loss that I had. But then again in life, you just you never get away from it. You know, I thought after my my father had died, I wouldn’t have to variants are lost for a while, you know. And then a few years, well, several years after my father died, my cousin Nicky committed suicide. She was 15. And she hung herself, I found her. And that was, again. very traumatic, because, you know, you’re not expecting to find someone hanging there. And even though there were signs of her, you know, threatening to do something I didn’t, I didn’t believe that she would you know, how teenagers could don’t want it to go on or on a runaway and then not coming back, you know, she was very rebellious. And so, yeah, that that took its toll on me, I instead of getting therapy or counseling, I took off to the Bahamas, I just wanted out of Canada, just away from it all.

Martika Whylly 5:54
And learned about, you know, my roots, my my father’s side, since, you know, he wasn’t around, I still have family there. And it wasn’t until I came back from the Bahamas in 2006, actually, that he actually started writing, it was automatic writing, there was, you know, I felt like I was being used, like spirit was using me to write. And with that came the book, having fun with God, and a lot of forgiveness, a lot of healing, a lot of understanding, peace of mind. Like, it was the greatest gift. It was better than, you know, I mean, counselling is good, but at that time, I just wasn’t feeling feeling the need for it. But I thought the writing to be super therapeutic, I did not know that no one told me, Hey, do some writing, you know, even if it’s journaling, you know, writing what you’re grateful for, or just how you feel, even if you’re angry, sometimes my writing wouldn’t be writing, it would just be a bunch of lines that have been very angrily marked on the page, you know, just to get some of that anger out. But it then it led me to helping others with their grief. I took a couple of courses in college, a one was just psychology 101. The other one was personal growth. But we touched on the stages of grief. And then we’re we’re to write about, you know, when we lost someone, and writing something out and reading it out loud to yourself as one thing, but then when you go to class, and you’re asked to stand up in front of the class and read it out loud, well, yeah, emotions, big time. In course, I ran to my seat after I was done. I didn’t want to take any questions. But people were amazed, like, how did you get through all that? And I thought, well, it must have been the grace of God. Because I mean, I was very suicidal. I was very reckless. I look back and I and I think about some of the things that I’ve done. And like, how did I have a look through that, you know, driving in a blizzard up north doing 120 kilometers an hour in the fast lane while everybody’s driving slow? I just didn’t give two flying figurines, you know, I’m like, whatever. If I die, that’s okay. Like I just had a death wish. And I think people around me could see it because when my cousin Nikki died, some of the family friends thought it was me that had committed suicide. Yeah, so I thought okay, so y’all saw that a suicidal didn’t do anything about it. That’s really good to know. But sometimes people think, well, it’s out of our hands or out of my hands, and whatever they’re thinking, I mean, there’s no judgment around it. But now it because I’ve started to thrive after talking to spirit, you know, how can I serve? What what do I know a lot about that experience that I can help others and a voice saying, you know, a lot about death and loss kept coming up. I didn’t want to teach you about death and loss is heavily involved in the music industry. I have recorded a few songs. And you know, music was my life. It made me feel good. It’s, you know, part of the healing process as well. But yeah, I just death and loss kept coming up. And you know, the music industry thing, you know, there was always a brick road at the end of the brick wall at the end of the road. So I kind of threw my hands up in the air and I said, Okay, you know, I’m here to serve you. Your wish is my command. I would say the universe, your wish is my command. So this is yeah. And of course, I’ve started a podcast about a year and a half ago and I speak to other psychologists, mediums, death, doulas caregivers and you know, discussing about ways to help others in their grief into sharing experiences and people that have overcome it, and overcoming meaning they’re no longer in the depths of despair. They’ve taken that grief, and they have flourished from it. And I’m hoping that others that are feeling, you know, like, like they don’t want to live anymore, that there is hope that they too can overcome these, these negative feelings or confused feelings.

Victoria Volk 10:14
Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And it is a lot. And a young life. Your mother died when you were 15. How old were you when you found your cousin Nikki?

Martika Whylly 10:27
I was 33.

Victoria Volk 10:29
Yeah I mean, that’s a lot of loss. And that time, can I circle back to what you said about having a divine experience? Because I’m really curious about that. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Martika Whylly 10:41
Okay. Yeah, sure. Well, I guess it was about maybe a few days away, maybe maybe a week after my mom passed. I was first year of high school. She died about a week before the March Break. So I had that week off school for to grieve. And then then there was the March Break. And I was alone in the apartment. My stepfather was always a way he was, you know, at work or whatnot. And I just felt so empty. I felt like a walking corpse. You know, I didn’t want to be here anymore. I couldn’t imagine living without her. So we tend to sometimes follow people. Like if somebody has hung themselves, while we want to hang on, hang ourselves. My mom, she jumped off a bridge landed in the Provincial Park. And so we lived in a high rise building it was we lived on the 20th floor. And the windows didn’t have screens on them, though we were fighting with the landlord about putting screens in because anyone could just fall out of there. And so I just opened the sliding window, and I stood in the frame and all it would have taken is one step. One step 20 stories I’d be with her. And I took that step and a force of some kind push me back into the living room. And a wave of this knowingness and peace came over me. And a voice said, You’re not meant to follow and therefore must live on. And the feeling that I got from that was, it didn’t matter what I did, there would always be something or someone to stop me from from ending my life. And it’s funny, because in my late 20s, and 30s, I put to the test, I put myself in some dangerous situations to see if that was true. Sounds crazy, but when you’re suicidal, like, you’re no reckless, then you’re willing. I knew physically, I could kill myself. So I just tried other ways. I tried to fend me God. According to Catholic religion, offending God is, you know, you go to Hades for that sort of thing. So I thought, Okay, well, hell, it’s gotta be better than this place. So I would try to offend God through thoughts, deeds and actions. And a was, excuse me, I’m emotional. I’m living in downtown Toronto in my late 20s. And I used to stumble home from the bars at night. And this one evening, I remember, you know, going into my apartment thinking, why am I still here? How come I’m still alive, have not have I not offended you. And then I heard a voice saying, I love you unconditionally, you can never find. And that’s when I knew that this God was truly unconditionally loving. And it didn’t matter what I did. I mean, I could have went out and killed 1000s of people, and I still would have been loved. So I stopped attending, because it wasn’t working. And I just kind of accepted the fate that you know, I’m still here. There’s some reason why I did not know what that was. Because, you know, at that age, I was still kind of figuring things out. And so I just, you know, did a lot of meditating. I started reading Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch, I read book, one, two, and three, several more of his books.

Martika Whylly 14:14
And that just kind of opened my mind a little bit more about our relationship with spirit. And so I just, I just started to, you know, to live more to because who knows when I’m going to go and so I better appreciate what I have. And just, you know, being able to talk to Spirit and not just that, but knowing that my mom is still with me spiritually. She she very much so. And, and I guess I think the more I acknowledge her the less she she sends signs. I know she’s with the two systems sounds quite a bit to the mess with the lights, I guess you could say the flickering of lights, you know, I had to, you know, the ceiling light on and that was flickering on and off. So I tried to adjust it and it would get flickering. And I thought, well, something’s wrong on the circuit board or something. So I turned it off and they put a lamp on well, then that started flickering and, and I and I said to her, I said, Mama, that’s you. Thank you for letting me know you’re here. But that’s freaking me out. So stop, stop doing that. So she did. So she did. Now I have not gone to mediums to talk about, you know, my mom or what she has to say or anything like that. Probably because I, you know, was open. And you know, she would show up and dreams, that sort of thing. But yeah, she’s very much. You know, in my life. She’s, she’s, you know, they could be very influential, our loved ones on the other side. And it just goes to show you that, you know, you can’t kill energy, we’re spiritual beings having a human human experience. And we’re immortal. So anyone says that we’re mortal, and we’re not. You know, we can be easily whatever. Well, that’s the story but Spirit does live on. I’ve had my grandfather show up in the dream. I’ve had my uncle show up in a dream. I’ve had my father show up in dreams. And, and so anytime I see them in dreams, like if I’m feeling this one, one moment, I think it was around the time Nikki died, and I was feeling so sore. While I was just suffering. I’ve never felt such sorrow. I cried myself to sleep. But I don’t remember ever doing that. Well, maybe when I was a kid, and I wanted to stay up late. But this was a real sorrow. And when I was sleeping in the dream, my father was lying next to me. And he had his hand on my, on my waist. And as I was waking up, he was fading away. And I had the most joyful feeling. It was like a one ad like going to bed circle crying myself to sleep, not knowing why I’m here. I can’t kill myself, you know, why did Nikki get to kill herself and I didn’t. I mean, I was really angry with God about a few things. And, and that morning, I was, I mean, I was skipping, like, I was like, Ooh, like, you know, like jubilation. And I remember calling my sister telling her, I said, I saw her dad, and he came to me last night. Because he came to her too. And you know, he would say to her, you know, everything is going to be okay, don’t worry, everything’s alright. Because my sister used to worry quite a bit. And so it’s I find it comforting when they come to us and let us know that they’re okay, and that they’re watching over us and guiding us and helping us. So bad that, that that has helped me, you know, along with, as far as you know, grief, because No, I don’t think anyone wants to stay in that kind of pain forever. But you know, they say in life, no pain, no gain, which is so true, to be happy all the time and content, we wouldn’t grow, if that was the case. So pain really serves as a catalyst for growth. So once I understood that on a deeper level, I’m like, oh, okay, this all makes sense. To help me so that I can help others and you know, just become stronger.

Victoria Volk 18:36
I’ve been taking notes, because there’s so many good things you mentioned. And I want to circle back to and I love how you said first that you can’t kill energy, like, Okay, I’ve never heard that. No one’s ever said that. You’re the first person that’s ever said it in that way, like about our loved ones who have departed, like their energy that resonates with me. I’m a Reiki Master, and I understand energy and things, but I’d never really thought of it in that way. Right? I want to ask you to so what was your relationship with God Spirit, whatever you call it, if you’re listening to this, what was your relationship with that? That knowing right that you experienced after that moment of standing in the window? What was your relationship before that? Like, did you grow up in a faith based home and

Martika Whylly 19:28
Yeah, my mom was very into going to church every Sunday was with Catholic Catholic religion. And I used to talk to God all the time, and I would hear a voice answer me sometimes in this one particular moment, I was the first year of high school this would have been maybe months before my mom passed. Just as I was dozing off to go to sleep. I heard a voice say, what are the primary colors? And I thought about it for a moment I thought, hmm, red, yellow, blue. I thought about green. I thought no green is yellow and blue together, Orange? No, that’s red and yellow together. So I thought Red, Yellow and Blue. And I heard that’s right. And I thought, Well, why are you asking me this question? And I heard nothing. I went to sleep. You know, the next morning, the first class was our class. And the teacher asked, what are their primary colors? You know, I was too shy to answer that question. Even though I knew the answer. No one wanted to answer. We’re so shy with teenagers are so cute and are so shy. Finally, somebody answered, and we’re all like, you know, we all breathe a sigh of relief. But that was kind of our relationship like this. This one would help me out it would. Like my stepfather, for example, was very abusive. Okay, he used to hit us. And I heard a voice say, The next time He comes out, you run to the front door and go down the stairs. And I did. I did when he tried to come after me. Do you know that he stopped

Martika Whylly 21:00
abusing me after that? And so I don’t know whether at that time, I would call it God. I did not know what that voice was. Because according to the Catholic priest at that time, saying, if you’re hearing a voice, then it’s probably the devil tricking you. You had to be ordained, you had to be male. I mean, it wasn’t said straight out like that. But that’s what the feeling you got. So I remember going home from church one time and asking it, are you the devil? I need to know and that I got no answer. So I came off my bed and I was walking into my room and I heard that the devil. And I thought, even if you are, you’re you’re good. You’re you don’t say anything, you know, to me, for me to do anything harmful to anyone. But after my mom died, the relationship I had with God was a little strange. I thought God had a weird sense of humor, because I did pray for God to help my mom get out of the marriage. And she did. She did get out. But it took her life. And I felt very angry. I used to play a song by Depeche Mode called blaspheme blasphemous rumors, and the chorus went, I don’t want to start any blasphemous rumors. But I think that God’s got a sixth sense of humor. And when I die, I could I expect to find him laughing. And I would play that song over and over again. And I’d say, God, this one’s for you. Yeah, and I would dedicate to God every time. And it was just a stranger. And for a while, I just didn’t believe knowledge. And of course, I stopped going to church, because according to Catholic religion, committing suicide is a is a sin and you go to straight to hell, I never believed my mom went to hell, for wanting to get out of a terrible relationship. So I rejected a lot of what was being said, and I was always kind of, some of it didn’t make any any sense to me. You know, for example, you know, apps, abstaining from sex priests are not allowed to have sexual intercourse. And I thought, well, we’re sexual beings. How are they? If there was, if there were pressing that, I mean, I didn’t know anything at you know, 1011 15, whatever years old. But my intuition was saying that would probably breed abnormal sexual behavior. And then, of course, it started to come out in my early 20s movie called The boys of St. Vincent, which was a believe a Canadian man made for TV movie, and it was about men in their 40s coming out, they were Ultra boys, they were molested by the priest. And that did not surprise me. I did not watch the movie because it just I couldn’t. I just couldn’t, you know, just to thought of it just and then I just left the religion after that, because there were too many contradictions. It didn’t make sense. And I didn’t believe that’s how God was. But now I have a better relationship with spirit. I do talk to God all the time. Whether you call it Jah, Allah, Buddha, Allah, it’s the same thing. It’s spirit source energy. And but yeah, I just turned to it all the time for guidance and wisdom because the world is pretty darn crazy. And yeah, I think it’s so important to listen to your intuition which is spirit talking to that feeling that gut feeling that hunch, whatever you want to call it, because anytime I don’t listen to it, I kick myself. Why did I lock the door before I left now somebody’s broken in. You know, I never liked it before but that one morning and so they should lock it? No, no, I never have seen before. And that’s what happened. Now nothing was taken and even if something was taken, spirit would remind me can’t take anything that you can’t take from someone who always hacks and so if somebody takes something from me spirit, what that voice would say you can’t take from someone who always has and they obviously needed it more than you Did so you just kind of let it go?

Victoria Volk 25:02
I love that. What do you think has been the greatest teacher of your grief? And in all of this?

Martika Whylly 25:11
That’s a good question the thing gone that probably we’re all gonna go that we don’t know when though I mean, it’s we assume that when we’re older that we’re going to go before somebody who’s younger. And that’s always not the case. That’s not always the case I could be hit by a bus tomorrow or some kind of freak accident or have a reaction to something I never thought I would you know, but just knowing that we are spiritual beings. And that we we do still live on we’re still creating in the afterlife because I’ve had conversations with people that Oh, once I’m dead, I’m dead. I’m like, Okay, well, you’re gonna be one of those ghosts, people, you know, that just go into the light. That’s where all the fun is. That’s where God is I’ve experienced

Martika Whylly 26:00
The light, more than one occasion. And most people that have experienced it will say they’re not afraid of death. It’s like, the easiest thing to do. You know, it’s like a breath of fresh air when teacher was saying it’s like, you know, loosening up a tight shoe. It’s my experience of it, because I was so you know, really wanting to go home. I didn’t want to be here. And I’d always talk to God, like, why am Come on, you’ve got all these children, you know, you don’t need all of us here. Like, can I not go home and I did have a glimpse of it. I think spirit was like, Okay, well give me a taste test. It was amazing. All I saw was nothing but light. It was like a soft yellow, but it was everywhere. And that’s all I saw. And that’s and I was I had no body, I was formless. I didn’t have to worry about dressing or eating or paying bills, you know, being anywhere at a certain time. It was amazing. I mean, the words, words are so limiting, compared to the experience. And ever since then, to be honest, I was a little bit more suicidal. And I wasn’t sure if God was just having fun with me. Like, let’s see how this one reacts, you know, give her a taste test, you know, kind of peeking at your Christmas presents the night before and getting really all excited about it. It’s really something to look forward to. I know that sounds morbid, but who really wants to live to be 150 You know, when your body starts to you can’t do anything anymore. So you kind of want that. You just want to be able to experience just going home. And the other thing too, and this was from my father’s passing. We all get a homecoming party. My father about two days after he died came to me in a cloud. And he had his arm stretched out as if to embrace me. And of course, at that time, I was still angry with him. So I pushed him away. But then he’s very determined he came back a few days later. And in the dream he was we were in the kitchen, he was leaning against the counter with the sink, and I was leaning against the other counter. It’s an L shaped counter. And I looked behind where the dining room table was. And there was empty dishes. You know, they were filled, there was crumbs, there was a bit of sauce leftover. And then when I looked around the living room, all the furniture had been pushed against the wall. And there were balloons and streamers and empty glasses and bottles. You could tell a party had taken place. And I looked at him. And I realized, you know, he was trying to invite me to his homecoming party. And I said to them, I’m so sorry, Mr. Party because of my anger. And he said that’s okay, you’re here now, you know, you’re you made it to the after party. And I said, Yeah, that’s right. This is out to the party. And And once that once I forgave him, I started feeling hungry said Is there any anything left over he says no, all foods been eaten, but there’s a bit of popcorn in that bowl behind you. And I looked and there was there was a bowl of popcorn there. And I’m not a huge popcorn eater. And so I looked at the popcorn. I thought popcorn for breakfast because it was morning time. And I said What kind of father you are for your daughter popcorn for breakfast and then he went off about this popcorn for breakfast. And he stormed out of the kitchen. He says You’re so stubborn and I said where do you think I get it from in the dream ended? I woke up. Do you believe it? I was like even though we had a little bit of a spat. It was just, you know, when people spat it’s really their way of loving each other. You know, you see the love behind all the bickering and I thought wow, I saw my father again. That was awesome. And I have now experienced that we do have a homecoming party because I’ve heard it before in other readings if you will other programs that the will have conversations of people that have challenged, channeled other spirits saying yes, we get a homecoming party. And so I’m looking forward to mine. I think it’d be awesome. Everyone’s gonna be there and everyone’s invited. Yeah. Yeah, this homecoming party.

Victoria Volk 30:13
So how do you live with that deep desire to go home?

Martika Whylly 30:18
Oh, well, it’s a well, I tried to remind myself to enjoy this moment, enjoy why I’m here and really kind of do what I’m supposed to do here, if that makes any sense. And sometimes I know, and sometimes I don’t know. Because I think when you make a command to the universe, to spirit use me, you have no idea. Like when I first said that use me when I was 23, because I had seen the light I had had a glimpse of it, this book came out having fun with God. And honestly, there was a day that I kind of I was in a trance, mostly writing it. But one one afternoon I said, Okay, wait a minute, why? Why am I writing? Why? Why aren’t I in the studio producing a genre of music? That’s no one’s ever heard of that, that everyone loves, you know, instead of writing. And then that voice said, while you said I could use you, and I and I totally forgotten, because years had passed, I was in my 20s. Now I’m in my 30s when I was writing, or 40s. And I thought, I said to spirit, I said, But you know, we can reach more people through music than we can through words. And I heard nothing. And I thought, okay, so you want to write fine. And so I continued writing. And I’ve been since then keep saying use me use me. So I have no idea what that’s going to look like. When you when you make a command like that. Because life is always listening. Spirit always hears us and answers our prayers, your wish is my command. And so it’s interesting, I have no idea. All I know is that I enjoy doing the podcasting. I enjoy counseling people with their grief, I enjoy, you know, cleaning and helping those who can’t do for themselves. And who knows where the I mean, I have my own desires and my own plans in my head. But spirit has a way of saying forget that. Here’s what we’re going to do instead. So I’m just kind of going with the godly flow, if you will, I do make plans. But then, you know, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. So I really don’t know, you know, how much longer I have or, I mean, I still have the next book to write. In this book. I do give a sample of the book to come, which I still haven’t written yet. I need to get that done. But I’ve also written children’s books, there’s not a they’re not out yet. You know, everything kind of takes time and money. So but yeah, right now, in this moment? Yeah, I’ve been asking for a lot of guidance and wisdom, because of all the changes that have been going on in the world. And you know, what my role is? How can I help others with their grief?

Victoria Volk 32:59
May I ask? Because I’m just personally curious, how has all of this loss in your life and obviously your deep relationship with spirit or God, how is that translated into? This might seem like a weird question, but I don’t know why I’m asking this honestly. But how has that translated into intimacy and relationships with people? Because I curious about that. Because I think what sometimes, what I wonder, too, is when people have such a really strong faith, right, really strong faith. Sometimes people can say to other Grievers, just pray about it, or, you know, and but praying doesn’t, you know, there’s like, it’s an action, right, you’re taking an action, but you don’t get the answer, right. You don’t necessarily get the answer of what to do next, or and I know, it’s like listening to your intuition. And you had said, like, your intuition is really Spirit coming through you. But how is all of this and that deep relationship with spirit translated to because I, what I think can happen sometimes is that we, we get comfortable. And then it can also become a barrier, or like this wall that we put up to other people for intimacy, right. And I’m not talking like love relationships only, although that’s included, but like deep intimacy, because when you’ve had so much loss you can you know what I mean? Be afraid to let yourself connect with people because of out of fear of losing them, too, right?

Martika Whylly 34:44
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I’ve been through that. I’ve been through that too. I don’t want to get too close to people because of you know, you might lose them. Yeah. So I think I’ve experienced that but then that intuition will be saying to me, well, then you’re never going to have really good really internships if you live like that, that’s not living either. You can’t be afraid that everyone around you is going to die constantly be in constant fear of that. So I just try to enjoy the moment as much as I can to look at the person and before me and say, Wow, this is a unique individual this is there’s no one like this person, this one, this one is God, also this person, whether they realize it or not, they’re their own creators of their own lives. So I take try to take that all into consideration. But that is a good question. Because I did at one point, kind of distanced myself, I was accused of having a wall having walls up, you have a wall up, you know, someone would say I’m like, Yeah, okay. And what’s your point? Obviously, I have it up because of protecting myself from the hurt from the pain. This is what you know, writing has helped me with, you know, kind of letting go of the fear, if you will, of someone close to me dying. You know, I mean, recently, I’ve had my cat dad pass away, and I didn’t think he would die. So soon, I thought Ashley would go before Him because Ashley is older. But when I had three cats, so Tasha and Tasha passed, I thought, Okay, so now I’m down to two. And I thought Ashley would go next and that and you know, we can communicate with our cats. He said, No, I’ll be next. And I ignored it. Because I’m thinking, Oh, he’s talking crazy talk. But yes, he did go now. And he’s come to my come to me my dreams. I commanded him to come. I demanded it. I need to see you. And three times he showed up, so he heard me they can hear us. They can hear us on the other side. Oh, yeah. Big time. Yeah, sometimes I lost my mom, I can’t find my bathing suit. Where’s it in there was like I had a flash in my head of where it was. And that’s where it was. So when you when you realize and it’s just part of growing, it’s for me, it’s it helps ease the pain to know that they’re still with us. They’re not really gone. And to be able to talk to them and talk about them from time to time. I mean, some other people might be uncomfortable, but I’m not uncomfortable talking about my mom or dad. You know, I used to be a joke. You know, when people say, Well, where are your parents? And I would say, Well, they both passed, and I say, Well, Mom, I’m an orphan who wants to adopt me. And just because, you know, people would get really serious and I wasn’t in that mode. It wasn’t in that state of being serious. I was in a state of really enjoying my life and enjoying this moment, you’re gonna ask me about something that, you know, was in the past painful, you know, I sometimes make light of it. And then people just look at me like, maybe I’m insensitive. But again, when other people are thinking isn’t really my main concern. I do sometimes do make light of it, you know. But yeah, it’s just, you know, knowing that they’re still there. Like my father haven’t seen him in a while, but I think pretty sure he thinks Okay, she’s alright, I’m gonna go off and do some of this work. Because I know her mom’s there. You know, which is typical, right? Typical male off doing something else. While mother is always watching over. Yeah,

Victoria Volk 38:14
I know. Like, before we recorded you had mentioned, you know, your cats. And the one passing the two passing now. Right?

Martika Whylly 38:14
Yeah Well, yeah, Tasha passed four years ago, but it’s dash passed a couple months ago. But Ashley looks like she she’s an older cat. She’s got the she kind of shakes a bit. You know, you when she said she thinks and try to get her ballot. So and I don’t know how old she is, say adopted her at the Humane Society. And they, I don’t know if they intentionally lied about her age, they might not have known. So they guessed maybe three months. She’s a small cat. I thought she was still a kitten. But after you know, a few months and having her she went into heat, and I’m thinking I don’t know, if kittens go into heat. And you know, but she was yeah, she was older. She’s still the same size. She hasn’t grown any bigger. So that’s what I realized. Okay, so, and I’ve had her for what 16 going on 17 years now. So she’s, she’s up there. She’s up there. But she’s showing, she’s showing the signs, you know, Gold Age. So I know it’s just a matter of time. Before she goes, I don’t want her to go either. I mean, who no one wants anybody going by that’s really not very realistic, so

Victoria Volk 39:30
Well, and like we’ve talked about, the reason why too, I asked, and I kind of just alluded to, but like relationships with love relationships and how sometimes too, like pets can become this, this barrier to that intimacy in other relationships of because animals don’t talk back, right? They don’t disappoint you. They love unconditionally, you know, so that’s kind of partly why I was going that direction in the conversation Do you have anything to share on that, that you’re open to sharing?

Martika Whylly 40:04
Um, well, yeah, I mean, pets are great in that aspect. But then when you when you’re dealing with people, and I remember reading this in the movie, and the book called the mastery of love that, you know, cats are who they are, you don’t expect them to be like dogs. And that’s how people are, you know, if somebody has a certain personality to think that they’re going to change, do, you know another type of personalities, expecting the cat to be like a dog. So it’s just about accepting people where they’re at in their life, and not try to take what they say to you personally, and I’m still working on that. I mean, I mean, I’m still working progress. So I try not to make anything more than it is, I tried to kind of put myself first more and more, which I know others would say that’s really selfish. But I’ve had way too many teachers that are very advanced, when it comes to spirituality say they all say the same thing. Put yourself first love yourself. First, everything begins from within. And once you get that, and kind of tune out all that, oh, you’re supposed to look after me and do all that kind of stuff. looking out for number one is looking out for number two, because if you can’t, you cannot feel from an empty cup, right? Or pour from them in an empty car. So I find when I’m doing this work, because I’m doing this work, I’ve had a lot of people and strangers even, you know, I’m really grateful for the work you do. And I’m like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. So I try to make a point to say that to the guests that are on my podcast, who acknowledged there because it’s not easy. It is not easy at all. It’s very, very draining. I find in the evening times after a certain time, I’m not looking at emails, I’m not checking for messages. It’s my time. Evening time is my time. And if you don’t like it, well, I don’t know. Just deal with it. It’s just my time because I don’t want to be a wake up the next day being irritable and bitchy. Because I’ve done that. I was with family. One time I spent a little month I think down in Florida visiting my sister. She’s got all this a lot of family down there. And I remember feeling really irritated, irritable. And I thought I asked myself what’s going on? Why are you irritable? Are you hungry? Do you need more sleep? If that? No. And then the question was, well, when was the last time you spent some me time, either Ah, that’s what it is. I need to spend some quiet time to myself. And once I did that, I was Narrable anymore. You see what I’m saying? It’s the same thing about being selfish and loving yourself first. So we’ve been taught to give, give, give, give, give, and put other people first and then yourself last. And it’s so backwards. There’s a lot of things we do in this society. That is bad words, for example, we should be mourning birth and celebrating death, instead of the other way around. But that’s not going to change. We’re so entrenched in our customs and fuel our beliefs, but it’s true, we should always be celebrating death, although the reason why we mourn is because we’re left behind. Like anytime I talk to God about, well, you know, a mentor of mine just passed not too long ago, and I’ve been still teary eyed about it. But I’m grateful for him. I mean, he has nothing to worry about anymore. You know, he’s doesn’t have to do anything. But you know, the What about the rest of us? Well, who’s gonna guide us and lead us and who’s going to tell us you know, you know, you know what to do or what not to do. And so, yeah, it just again, lights a bit of a fire under my butt to get out there and do what I need to do before because you don’t know when your time is ready? You don’t know. So I try it’s balanced because there are relationships that have been a little bit toxic and like, Okay, do I reach out to that person or a little bit toxic, you know, I don’t want to, you know, Ricochet back into now I’ve got a, you know, heal all over again, that sort of thing. So again, this is where I kind of go within and listen to that inner voice. Okay, what should I do about this situation? You know, how to how to how to handle this or that that sort of thing?

Victoria Volk 44:23
Can you speak to a little bit what you said about morning birth?

Martika Whylly 44:27
Oh, yeah. Well, by that, well, when we come into this physical realm, we’re separated, if you will, from the light separated from that love that all encompassing love. And we’re having to forget we’re in this forgetfulness of who we are. And sometimes you can go through a whole lifetime and not remember who we are not even be awake. So that’s what I mean by the morning and, you know, going through the trials and tribulations that we all go through, like I mean, some about some of the stories I’ve heard from other people are heartbreaking like this one young man who’s lost his, his mother committed suicide. He’s six months years old. So he never had that, you know, bond with his mom and I just My heart went out to I just wanted to give him a hug. And this is what I mean. And then and then when we pass, well, we’re going right back home, we’re going right back to the love. And so it’s a wonderful experience. But we’re not taught that in the society. We’re not taught about it. We’re taught to fear death. And when you when you don’t fear death, really, it changes the game. I’ve had people like in a jokingly way, you know, because I’m short. And I’m little and you know, you get a coworker just messing with you saying we’re going to do about it may stand over you, right. And I’m like, I smile and say, don’t ever underestimate size. And they look at me like, oh my gosh, she’s crazy. She doesn’t have any fear, you know? And, yeah, but it takes it takes that fear away. When fear is gone, then you could live you can really live and you really, really live you know, and life does to seems to be more richer. When you release all that fear of what’s around the corner, you know, when it’s the fear of the unknown, but once you have a sneak peek, it tastes us if you will the other side and see how awesome it is. It never fear death for me, I wanted it more. But now Now, because that’s been years ago, I still look forward to it. But it’s not something I brag about and announce on a daily basis, because then people would start to think I’m suicidal again, which I’m not. I just know that. Well waits for us is some great reward. You know, it’s it’s awesome. And I always imagined my homecoming party. Everyone, everyone. Yeah, it’d be awesome. Like all the fam, you know, everyone that we know, personally, like famous people, you know, they’re all They’re all all of them welcoming us in the pets, the pets or the pets. I think about the pets. Yeah. So and this is my imagination. Of course, I I have no proof of any of this. But just what I’ve experienced. So this is why I look forward to it. But I don’t want to go before my pets because then I’m concerned okay, well, you know, they’re left behind who’s gonna look after them? That sort of thing. So yeah, I stay around for I wouldn’t want to leave them behind, or any unfinished work that I needed to do behind.

Victoria Volk 47:29
The vision that comes to my mind as I was listening to you talking is it just feels like we’re adults in training pants. And we’re all learning how to come back to that self love. And we’re all learning how to embrace the unconditional love that is there waiting for us. And so many of us look to some outside source for that. And yeah, I just think we’re all in these training pants of that’s what life is is to help you to come back to yourself. And yeah, feel whole in that moment. When you do go to the other side. Perhaps Yeah. Do you consider yourself a highly sensitive person? Empath, highly sensitive?

Martika Whylly 48:17
Yeah, I never used to but I remember reading a few articles about you know what it is to be an empath the signs that feelings and I thought yep, that’s yeah, that’s, yeah, I can. I’m very sensitive. I remember calling one of my mom, she’s I have when my mom died. I had inherited five moms. Okay. Two ads. Lady that helped raise me more one of my mom’s best friend and another lady that adopted me when I was 20 years old. And it was 20. I said to her name’s Diane. And I said, Diane, how old are you? She was I’m 31. I said, Well, I’m 20. That’s only 11 years difference, because oh, let me have this. I’ve always wanted a data. You know, she has her Jamaican accent. And it was heard. I can feel her praying for me. It was one evening and I don’t usually call her in the evenings. It’s usually on weekends. But this one evening, I called her and twizzle. I was just praying for you. And I said, I know that’s why I called. And there was silence. I said, you don’t believe me, do you? Because she’s kind of skeptical about that kind of stuff. A lot of people are. And because now I know I believe you and I’m like, okay, it doesn’t matter. But I called because I felt you’re praying for me. And I wanted to thank you. Yeah, so, but yeah.

Victoria Volk 49:30
Do you think you’re a bit of a medium?

Martika Whylly 49:32
You know, I was talking to a lady that is a medium on my podcast, and I expressed an interest in getting to, to take a course on that and to just fine tune it because a lot of people that grieve the first person, they go to the medium, and then maybe they’ll get the counseling or coaching. So but that’s another thing I’m gonna look into is the medium the Because, yeah,

Victoria Volk 50:01
I think that’s a lot of the reason why people do that is just from conversations I’ve had in the work that I’ve done. And my own personal experience is I think there’s this a lot of incomplete feelings. Right. And so we’re looking for some sort of closure. Resolution, not maybe Ness, closure may might not be the right word. But I think it brings comfort to a lot of people who might be skeptical. What’s on the other side? Right? Like, it could be affirming for them, it could actually make people uncomfortable, like that was that was too much, right? I think you just have to be open to receive. And I think if you’re going to a medium, you’re obviously open to receiving something. Right. But yeah, you’re obviously very open. And that’s why you’ve done the things that you’ve done and had, you know, the experiences you’ve had, this is such a rich conversation. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you would like to share with my audience?

Martika Whylly 51:07
Well, yes I guess when it comes to death and loss, that you’re not alone. There there lots of resources. There’s Facebook groups, there’s probably maybe groups in the area. I don’t know how things are in the States. I think you’re in the States, and things are opened up, hopefully, because it’s I think it’s best to get together with people so you can get Hugs. Hugs are so therapeutic. Oh, my God, I love hugs. And so but yeah, just asking for the guidance asking for whatever you need, you will get this Ask and you shall receive. It’s so so simple. Like for me, somebody read my book and said to me, Well, you You’re really strong, you’ve got a lot of strength. And after she said that, I thought, Well, where did I get that? And I remember going back to that, and I like I asked for it. I didn’t just ask for it. I demanded it. Oh, yeah, I demanded ultimate. Sometimes I just talked to God, like God’s My servant, give me this. Well, and in a kind way that will just command the strength because I didn’t have strength to carry on. And so I just commanded it. And, and that’s where I got the strength, but you can command anything. Ask for anything.

Victoria Volk 52:20
In Grief Recovery, we talk about? Well, one of the myths of grief is Be strong. And it’s something that, and I’ve asked the question lately on the podcast, like, what does it mean to be strong? Like, what does that really actually mean? Because we can be strong or we can be human? You know, we’re not robots, and to put on a front that I’m fine, and I’m okay. When really inside were a mess, which is okay to write. So I guess what is your answer to that? Like, what does it mean to be strong?

Martika Whylly 52:55
That’s a good question. I think it means acknowledging that you, you aren’t always strong, that, you know, you’re you’re feeling the emotions and allowing the emotions instead of resisting it. You know, if you feel angry, it’s okay, be angry, you know, punch a pillow, go for a walk, I don’t know, do something that will help you relieve that energy, because it’ll affect you physically. You don’t want this ease. Not at this time. But yeah, it’s it just means just allowing yourself to be how you’re feeling. And knowing what you need and knowing also, to what your limitations are. I mean, there, there may be days when you just don’t want to get out of bed. Honor it, honor your feelings, you know, we just honor what it is, whatever it is that you’re feeling, because that is part of the healing. Healing is feeling or feeling is healing. Somebody said that to me once is so true feeling is healing. So for me, that is strength, just knowing what you need and how to honor yourself. And yeah, because some people, they have no clue of how to go about certain things. And but, you know, I do believe our loved ones and spirit are always with us, guiding us whether we realize it or not, we might not see the signs or feel them or sense them, or see them in dreams, but they’re there. They’re there.

Victoria Volk 54:19
So share a little bit where people can connect with you and find your work and work with you. And

Martika Whylly 54:26
Well, they can connect with me via email [email protected] to reach out I also have a website grievewithease.com.

Victoria Volk 54:37
Can they connect with you through your website? You have a contact? Okay,

Martika Whylly 54:40
Yes, I do have contact page on the website. I do have a book called having fun with God. You could either buy it on Amazon get the paperback or you can order get the free ebook on on the website. It’s on the main page and your podcast. Yes, but it was forgotten. Yeah. And I do have a podcast in that’s also everything’s pretty much on the website. They do have all the podcasts you can listen to are on the website as well.

Victoria Volk 55:08
And I will put a link to that in the show notes and also to the couple of the resources you mentioned, as well. Thank you so much for sharing your story Martika and for being my guest today.

Martika Whylly 55:20
Well, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

Victoria Volk 55:22
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.

Ep 104 | Michelle Marsh

Michelle Marsh | Flipping the Script on Loss During Covid

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

In the grief recovery programs, one way we describe grief is that it is the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations. This description of grief, in this way, has not been better understood by society as a whole more than it has since 2020 with the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic.

As society begins to emerge from the darkness Covid brought to so many lives, we start to see ourselves and others in a new light. We have started to see the impact of the past two years on the psyche of millions, its global economic impact, and deeply feel the ripples in our individual lives.

In this week’s episode, my guest, Michelle Marsh of Western Australia and @aromanosis, shares the ripples Covid-19 created in her life. Burying a loved one is never easy. Burying a loved one during a pandemic, well, it can be downright traumatic, elevating the emotions of everyone involved and leaving a lasting imprint.

Additionally, and not often talked about, are the secondary losses during Covid-19 due to government mandates, which Michelle also experienced in regard to hopes and dreams she had before the pandemic.

Michelle shares a few lessons she’s learned from her Covid-19 experience. And, how she’s managed to get to the other side of the darkness that was Covid-19 (and still is creating ripples in some ways).

For a long time, I have shared the expression “Covid Ruins Everything.” Well, one thing I believe it hasn’t ruined and perhaps has maybe strengthened, is the human spirit in the lives of millions.

May we all carry the lessons we’ve individually learned from Covid-19 into our future selves and be better for it.

RESOURCES:

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If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE or click HERE for mental health resources.

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Victoria Volk 0:00
Hi this is Victoria of theunleashedheart.com and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30 plus year griever in advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate grievers and non grievers like spread hope and inspire compassion towards those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with yours in this platform, grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather? Let’s get started. Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. I am your host Victoria Volk of The Unleashed Heart and today my guest is Michelle Marsh. She studied Reiki one and two as a teenager which began her journey into wellness. And after leaving school, she went into Registered Nursing where she learned the pros and cons of western medicine. After getting frustrated with the system, she left and began down a path of learning and natural health and hypnotherapy soon moving into coaching. Recently, Michelle has studied creative therapies and this year is delving deeper into alcohol herbalism and your Aveda. Now a mom of three and wife to a wonderful tolerant husband, Michelle describes herself as a highly sensitive person who loves to experience life to the fullest. In a nutshell, Michelle works with nature and creativity to help others grow and create change. Thank you so much for being my guest today. Michelle.

Michelle Marsh 1:52
Hello, thank you for having me.

Victoria Volk 1:55
We know each other to your friends for like two years. And this is the first time we’re actually recording. And I’ve been trying to pin you down for quite some time. But I think it’s perfect timing just given all of the change and transformation that I know you’ve gone through in the past two years. But more importantly, how that change has transpired probably in light in a lot of ways because of COVID. And so excited to see where this conversation goes today. But can you share a little bit about the Michelle before COVID and the impact that has had on your life in the Michelle after COVID? And just to clarify, she lives in Western Australia?

Michelle Marsh 2:42
Yes, it is. Although I think you’re the one with a funny accent. Okay, so Michelle. Oh, so that’s a doozy. Deezy Deezy question. Michelle, post COVID is much more accepting of the grayness of the future. So I think that’s probably the biggest change than the uncertainty of everything that’s kind of gone on here, has given me in the sense that before COVID, I really like to plan before COVID, I would always have a future vision of how everything is going to be. And with so many changes, and so much potential for change occurring. And there were you know, there’s been quite a few things in my life that I would I was doing that has been well felt like it was ripped beneath my feet. And all of a sudden, the trajectory I was on and my husband was on, career wise, family wise, all sorts of things disappeared. And in the past, when I’ve come across those kind of uncertain moments or you know, when big changes come into life as it does one of my biggest strategies for dealing with that would be to sit down and and replan and re visualize something into the future because knowing where you are going gives you a sense of purpose and hope. And so the last two years, particularly this this past year, it’s like, we don’t know what’s going to happen next and how well there’s a lot of freedom has been changed here, where I live and and so it’s like it was about six months ago, I had had a moment of going been so frustrated because I kept planning and it kept kind of falling apart. Just one little announcement and it would just crumble down again and this frustration and then wanting to plan but being afraid to Take the next step in a plan as well because of that, and I was sitting there and I was in a meditation and it was like, there was just this gray fog. And it’s like, well, I can’t just keep standing here where I’m at. Because you can’t do that for life. Like that’s, that’s the path we’re staying still to, to misery, right, we have to move forward. That’s where the growth is. But the fear of stepping into sight is the great unknown. So it’s, it’s not that I don’t dream and plan now. I do. But it’s with the knowledge that it can be. It can disappear at any moment. And I think now in hindsight, I look back. And I think how funny because it’s not like that was ever different. Life could always change on a dime, yet, your plans could always change. But I had a false sense of security, pre 2020. Whereas now, it’s like my eyes have been opened as to the true changeable nature of life. And, you know, it was terrifying at first. And in some days, it still is, and some days, I really feel the loss of that that certainty. On the other hand, what a gift because it’s kind of exciting, as well like to go the potential, you know, instead of knowing where you’re going, knowing the end of the story, it’s like a great book, where anything can happen. Like, yeah, hope that answers.

Victoria Volk 6:34
And I want to, I want to touch on that a little bit and go a little deeper on what you said, when you talked about the possibility because there I think there’s so many people that could think, like the negative, right, like, this isn’t going to work out. It’s like the worst possibility rates, so many people have that knee jerk reaction to think of the worst case scenario. Yeah. So what have you learned through the grief that this has brought you to? Because it is grief changing pattern patterns of behavior and your life and plans that gets swept from under you? What have you learned in how have you been able to reframe your positive goal of possibility instead of fear? Really?

Michelle Marsh 7:19
Yeah, that’s definitely been been grave. So saying that I’ve had in my head since I was a kid, I don’t know where it came from, is there’s always a way you just have to find it. And I’ve, I’ve always believed that, except for when I haven’t. Sometimes you forget, right. But it’s always kind of been there in the back of my mind. So one of the things that happened towards the end of last year in, in studying creative therapies at uni, is that I had a trajectory from going from this postgraduate diploma that I’m doing into the Masters, which would then take me into the system have been registered and been able to mingle with, you know, in the, in the medical world and things kind of in the system, I suppose. Because I, I fell in love with it. And I’m good at it. You know, they try to say that in the most non egotistical way, but you know, when you just go, oh, yeah, like, it all makes so much sense to me. And I find that quiet, it’s a lot of work but quite easy at the same time to understand. And so it was like, having this baby kind of gifted to me, and I was, I was just in love, and I was committed to it. And, and it was just such a beautiful gift. Because I had originally said, I’m going to do this, and I’m going to integrate it into like, my coaching and consulting that I do, what I learn, and, and then I had this whole new vision and pathway that I was going to go on. And then there was announcements at the end of last year that said that you have to be vaccinated to practice as as that kind of registered practitioner and we had chosen as a family not to go down that road health wise. And it was just dream shattered in a moment. And that really, it and I know I spoke to a lot about this at the time, you know, talk about a loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. I had such a strong vision of once I had that masters what I was going to do with it and it it felt so real. It felt so aligned and even talking about it now I can feel that emotion kind of coming up. And it was like, oh, what now and I did just throw my hands up and kind of say if you world and I don’t understand. And this felt so right, I felt so aligned, like, you know, my, the spiritual side of me was really well, the side of me trying to understand the spiritual side of me was very confused. Because I live my life like that I follow my intuition. That loss made me feel very lost in myself. And it made me question everything in the sense of, you know, I follow these, this path of of, like, following the whispers I call it the, you know, that intuitive following what feels good following what feels aligned, and here are here it was, I felt like the universe was just slapping me across the face and going, haha, just jokes, you know, give me the Give me Give me that beautiful baby back, take it away from night just took it straight back. And all the work that I’ve done and the sacrifices that I’ve made, you know, financially timewise to do that study, because, you know, it’s been a couple of years that I’ve been in, it really hurt, really, really hurt.

Michelle Marsh 11:14
And then at the same time been so aware of so many people in the world suffering so much more, you know, that there are there are bigger losses out there. And it could be so much worse, but then it felt like my heart was being tested that it’s such a funny thing, when you have a have a loss like that, because it’s what I was grieving was was never actually a reality in the first place. So going back to that, that same, there’s always a way, you just have to find that, you know, that was still in the back of my head. And gradually, I realized that what I have learned so far is still mine, I have not lost the last two years of study, it’s still in my mind that still integrated into how I work with people in the capacity that I work with people now. And then I found another way, then I said, I don’t need the approval of that organization over there, to to still study and learn what I love and to integrate it into what I offer into the world, nobody can stop me from offering my skills, I’m just not allowed to use certain words, you know, and it’s, there’s, there’s always a way, there’s always a way. And and it can be really hard and frustrating when you don’t have the support that you thought you were going to have on that journey. But then there’s, you know, six months on from that, so many gifts in that as well that have kind of come from that big shake up of that expectation. Now what I’m doing is so much more expansive, that it would never fit in that tiny little box of where I thought I was going. So I guess moving through it one foot in front of the other. With that mantra going through my mind, there’s always a way, I just need to keep moving forward, until I find that way, knowing that I’ll probably go this way and then that way and up and down and around in circles quite a few times before I feel like I’m sort of tracking forward maybe and that’s okay. That’s the other mantra in my mind. It’s okay. It’s all okay. Every emotion every, every wrong turn every, every every right. It’s all okay, it’s all perfect. So I suppose I have a much deeper trust and faith these days than I used to. Because I can’t plan.

Victoria Volk 13:59
Well, and again, like we’ve like so many of us get reminded it’s you can plan until you’re blue in the face, but not at all there’s an expression God will laugh at your plans anyway or something like yeah, as the last laugh. I just filled out a survey not that long ago or not a survey a questionnaire to be on a podcast and the question was something to the effect of when was a time in your life that you had failed? And you know, what, what did you learn from it? And like the old me, before I really started my journey of personal development, especially the last probably, like pre grade recovery me would have would have looked at that and and answered probably in the way of really looking down on myself. Right and really, I could have probably thought of things left and right to put in there. But my perspective of failure now. I don’t know if you I know from what I know of you I’m thinking you share the same thinking is that there is no failure. It’s all learning the perspective of how I look at failure like there, there is no failure. And I used to, you know, we are our worst critics, our own worst critics. And that used to be a really one of the things that brought me down the most, and my self confidence and, and my worth, and all of that. So I think it’s really important that we look at failure, and really dig deep into it. Of what how we want to reframe that. So how do you? What is your stick on failure these days?

Michelle Marsh 15:45
It’s a really good question, because it’s not something I really think about anymore. Because it’s kind of like you, I used to think about how many failures I’ve had. And just as you’re talking there, I’m like, Well, I guess what’s happened is I don’t see them as failures anymore. They seem as launchpads I see them as my biggest moments of, of growth. Because I’ve, I’ve had plenty of things which people could label us as failures if they wanted to. But if those things hadn’t occurred, I would not be the person I am right now. I would not feel the expansiveness and love and everything that I have hearing my heart so solidly these days, I wouldn’t have any of that. Because I wouldn’t have learned how to come come through. And so I suppose in the in the sense of how I saw things as failures in the past. Whereas now I don’t, I see them as growth opportunities now, which means I move through things a lot quicker. I think if like that example that I gave with my study, if that had happened, say three years ago, it probably would have taken me maybe a year, two years to get over it, you know, not over it, too. We don’t get over things, we integrate them. And we grow from them with without any kind of trauma or grief, or occurrence. And so I think it’s a reframe into a growth opportunity, instead of it being a failure. And the best thing we can do is to fail again, and again, and again and again. And I used to read books saying that, and I would think, yeah, because then you learn how to do it right, and you don’t fail anymore. You know, those Harar kind of books, like, you know, learn how to do it wrong. So then you know how to do it, right? It’s such a load of crap, get comfortable with it, and know that it’s an opportunity. And yes, it’s an opportunity that hurts like hell, and I can’t ever see myself seeking that out and saying, Oh, I hope this is one of those moments of

Victoria Volk 17:55
Great, right, we don’t ask for it.

Michelle Marsh 17:58
Every endeavor every step of the way, I’m hoping that things go smoothly and well, and that it feels so flow when you know all the rest of it, that when ultimately the pain does come along, it’s that knowledge in the back of your mind that that you can get through it. And it’s the previous failures or growth opportunities. And having come through those and then being able to see those in hindsight. That gives you the courage to know that no matter what happens into the future, and I suppose this is where getting comfortable with that greatness in front of in front of me has come from no matter what’s thrown at me, I will find a way through it, I’ll find a way to integrate that I’ll find a way to find meaning in it, which I think is is a big part of, you know, coming through trauma coming through grief is, is having some sort of meaning attached to it, not to dispel the pain. Because it’s so important, I think to to honor that and integrate it, but that the meaning gives us a sense of purpose and understanding of why we experience it in the first place, which to me is then that Launchpad into the growth in our future and into better experience.

Victoria Volk 19:22
I know because we’re friends that you experienced a loss during that transition of trying to understand that what you wanted to the stream that you were hoping to build and launch wasn’t going to happen, at least for the time being, but you did have a loss of someone you loved during that time as well. And

Michelle Marsh 19:42
Yeah, so that was my my grandfather and it happened quite quickly and suddenly, I mean, he was gosh, I should know this. I think he was 96 but he was still living alone and looking after himself. And you know, I’ve completed sound mind and he had a fall and within weeks he he had died. And in that time, we thought he was going home as well, because he, he was healing and then all of a sudden he crashed the night before of the funeral. There was there was an announcement we had really strict borders in, in Western Australia. And we hadn’t had COVID in in our state. And so they, there was one case that that came through. And so they locked everything down based on one case who was in isolation, and they’d identified everybody that had been in contact, which was nothing to do with me or my family or anything near near us. But they locked down everything and said that, so like lots of rules changed. One of them been at funerals, that you can only have 10 people attend, and mums, one to five children. So with partners, you know, she could attend with her her brothers, but none of us cousins and you know, there’s a there’s a big bunch of us cousins, and we’re a very, very close family. It was a grieving of not just the loss of my grandfather, but but from the head of the family. We lost my Nan, you know, 20 odd years ago. So it was this this fear then of is our family still going to come together? Or is it like all of it changed every dynamic of what had been a really solid foundation for all of us in, in that family. I remember, I was already grieving all of that. And then to have here this announcement that I can’t go to the funeral, yet the football was still going ahead was so discombobulated like the grief then that came up from that, and so that night, like and they said, Oh, you know, we’ll live stream and like, okay, okay. But it was kind of like a bit. But it was so hard to really comprehend the feelings that that were going on inside. And I don’t think I’ve ever really thought about how important funerals were. And so in the end, we made a decision, I think I was lying in bed awake at it, I couldn’t sleep, and just so much fire so much anger towards this politician made this decision that made no sense to me, no sense, you know, the rest of the world by then was kind of getting on with things and, and will freaking out a by one case, you know, and yeah, I just hit me, I’m like, No, I’m getting up and getting dressed. Because all of that process of getting dressed to go to the funeral, there’s like ritual in it. And and, and the kids are having the day of school, and they are getting dressed too. And so is my husband, and I’m taking my laptop. And we’re going to drive wasn’t strictly allowed, but we did it. We’re going to drive, we’re going to sit outside on the road in our car, of where I know, they are. So I can see the hearse drive in. So I can I can watch it on on the computer and as close as I can to that.

MIchelle Marsh 23:35
And it ended up being this beautiful on one hand, and then still so much anger and grief on the other side to have not been in the chapel because we turned up there. And I’ve spoken to my three siblings, and they decided they would do the same. So we were turning up but none of us has spoken to our cousins, because we’re a little like, you know, bit worried about what each other would think about breaking the rules to that extent, but we’re like, we’re safe. We’re in our cars where you know, because we weren’t supposed to say anyways, we get there. And the majority of my cousins had decided to do the same thing. And it was so incredible. Watching all of these cars line up on the side of the road with the same idea. They’d all had the same inspiration when I spoke to them later, you know, they’d had the same kind of thing where they’d stayed up all night I couldn’t sleep and angry and then you know, they got this idea to come and I so feel like my granddad went to each of us and gave us that inspiration. And so that was really beautiful. And it was a real kind of connecting moment. But then on the other hand, yeah, it was that there was so much anger because I felt like I’d been told I can’t grieve how I want to grieve and and I realized how important it is. is, you know, after a funeral, when a family comes together for the weight and the telling of those stories and the hugs and the the weird feeling of it all that you don’t have, you know, the grandfather there who’s who’s always been, like, the reason why we get it not the reason but you know that it’s, we get around. And so we didn’t have that. And, and there was a, we were kind of like, Oh yeah, well, once the lockdowns over we’ll, we’ll have awake and all the rest of it. But there was just this fizzling off. And then no one could kind of rally themselves to kind of come together and do that. And I still feel the desire for it. But when I spoke to the rest of my family, they’ve moved past it. So it was so yeah. Yeah, no, I still kind of can’t put a lot of words to it all and explain it because it was, as I was saying to you, before, we jumped on to record this anger on one side, which really made me want to jump into action and be vocal on what was going on over here and all the rest of it. And then the grief, which just felt like, cold, still depression. I can’t move. I give up. What’s the point? You know, and then then what’s the point was tied in with with the grief of what was going on with my grandfather, and then with the grief of everything that I was seeing kind of occurring around me and how much people were getting suppressed? And yeah, it just really made me flake. But then the anger. Good. I’m out in rage every now and then. Such an interesting, interesting process yeah.

Victoria Volk 27:04
Very much a roller coaster. And feeling the weight to have what you see. Right happening with people, you know, and love. It’s not just what’s happening with you. But, you know, friends who maybe lost their jobs because of their points of view, or yeah, you know, situations like that of losing loved ones. Due to but maybe not even getting to see them. Yeah, for they passed away.

Michelle Marsh 27:35
Yeah. Yeah. Dad’s not been able to be with their wives while they’re giving birth. Again, because of a Health Choice. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s a carry on at the moment, which is just ludicrous. Yeah, so there’s a lot of pain and grief that you hold for other people with that with. And I think when there’s a when you feel because again, this comes down to personal point of view. But when you feel like people are experiencing grief or additional grief, for no reason, or it seems pointless, because there’s a rule. It’s, it’s really hard to kind of integrate that. You know, it’s different when someone gets hit by a car, and you go through that grieving process and everything, but it’s, it’s almost like the cars been driven purposely or that person has been told to stand on the road or something. And it’s just like, it’s so frustrating. There’s this desire to scream, but you’ve got to let go of it all. Because you have no choice but to yourself, or the world, or your, your own family. And I think after holding that frustration, and for other people, for myself, for the world as a whole, I was crunching in on myself and I am a hermit anyways, but not in a good way. I lost all motivation to to share any any of the messages that I have. And I was I was really struggling with that. And, and I was snapping at my children and my husband and I even though we’re on the same page, we’re starting to get narky at each other. And it’s because it’s the frustration of what’s happening out here that is out of your control, and you’re seeing all these people in pain and you know, I’m that person that my friends call to tell me when they know Yeah, my husband’s just lost their job or and I’ve got a friend and they’ve got an amazing electrical business that and I know how hard her husband’s worked to build that up and employees and things like that. And then these are these crazy rules come in that don’t make sense. And and and then like, how do we navigate this and you know, that feeling that terror of your heart. And it’s, what ends up happening is that your suffering, and your children are suffering because of it, because you’re taking it all in. And it’s because the lack of feeling of control. So at some point, it was like, How do I not dissociate from this? Because that’s not healthy? How do I keep my eyes open and aware to the truth and be okay.

Victoria Volk 30:32
And as a highly sensitive person, and that’s kind of what I’m getting at to conversation, being a highly sensitive person. So what would you suggest to people who may be feeling that way, whether they’re identify as a highly sensitive person or not

Unknown Speaker 30:49
Think this is where your self care behaviors are so important. So as you know, I have been practicing Kundalini, religiously, every every day Kundalini yoga, for over a year now. So those kinds of practices and journaling and meditation, reading a book, all of those things, well, I suppose let me categorize it. So there’s some self care behaviors, like yoga, meditation, that are like muscle strengthening, emotional resilience strengthening, so they do help you to release and let go and integrate different things. But one of the really big things about them is that they are, they are building a strength a core like inside like this. And, and it’s so that when everything is swirling around in a storm around you, you can you can feel your center, still, instead of just been swept around in the storm. So those things, I think it’s really important to have a practice. And that’s hard to do, especially when you’re not feeling great. But that’s where self discipline comes in. And that’s having self integrity, and thinking you’re worth that time and that effort. And children and your family. Yeah. Sorry.

Michelle Marsh 31:07
Can I ask you a follow up question to that? Before I forget, because I think it’s really important, I actually want your thoughts on this. So just it’s come up recently in conversation. So like you can be you can have a yoga practice, let’s say you have a daily yoga practice, and Kundalini, whatever it is, and it’s a practice of being with your body, like being present with your body in your body, feeling safe and supported in your body, right? But what if it’s not, you’re not really with your feelings? Because there’s a difference in with your body. But if you’re not in or with your feelings, is it in a way, a form of spiritual, spiritual bypassing? Or could you be thinking that you’re addressing your grief or your emotions with this practice, but yet, it almost becomes a STERB. Like in grief, we call it a Short-term Energy Relieving Rehaviors.

Unknown Speaker 33:20
It can be a step. Yeah. Yes, this language through so you know what? Yeah. But that Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria Volk 33:28
What do you say to that? Like, yeah, you can have a yoga practice, but it’d be within your body, but how do you sit, be in with your feelings at the same time?

Michelle Marsh 33:39
So I would say that if you’re truly with your body, you can’t not be with your feelings. At the same time, I would say, when it say a sturb. So, you know, people often use that a physical movement as in that way to bypass things and to use it as a healthier band aid than alcohol, but it’s still a band aid, right? And yes, it’s it’s spiritual bypassing, but you’re not when you’re fully embodied. The mind and body are one, your feelings and emotions. It’s all it’s all one thing. So if you’re truly, actually been embodied, and if you’re truly doing the practice of yoga, you will feel it. And I mean, this is this is why, you know, so often, like if I’m consulting with somebody, and they’re having difficulty getting in touch with their emotions and feelings, just just from talk, because it really works well that way. It’s okay, let’s move your body because there’s usually somewhere I can see in them that they’re holding on I’m like, Okay, let’s see what’s there. And once they start to move it, the emotion starts to come up. And so this is what’s supposed to be occurring within within yoga or any of these movement. practices. But there are ways like you say, where you can move your body, and even use the breath and use the mind to completely compartmentalize. And and you know, that’s it’s an incredibly clever thing to do. But humans are clever and and I’d say most people have the skill to actually do this. It’s almost like it gets boxed up and put somewhere, right. But if you’re actually doing the practice properly, and I think this is where intention comes into it, and you are to the best of your ability, because, you know, when we meditate, we all go off and think about dinner and all the rest of it, but you just keep bringing yourself back, you keep bringing yourself back, you keep saying, If I feel something, I will feel it. I give myself permission I although these things are really important, there is no use going through some yoga said, or, or even meditation, you know, in kundalini, we do a lot of chanting and things like that, you can get lost in them. And there is a certain sense of peace and goodness to that as well. But the attention should always be in the present moment. It’s not about escaping, it’s about coming in and feeling and saying, I will feel I will feel this pain, I will feel the light, you know that that means a physical pain and an emotional pain. So I think it comes down to intention as to the difference between both because yeah, know what you mean. And I know, we’ve had conversations about it before in the spiritual bypassing, and I’ve been extremely frustrated in the past, because some of the most what I would have in the past called the most spiritual people I know, like highly psychic people, and mediums and things like that, that I I have known personally, have screwed up what I would personally call personal life and relationships. And I’m like, How does this occur? And it’s because they’re actually not embodied. It’s because they are trying to live in this spiritual world, as an escape, just like drinking can be just like, exercise can be just like, six can be eating anything. It’s an escape from actually feeling and dealing with what’s occurring. So yeah, I think it really does come down to that the mindset and the intention.

Victoria Volk 37:42
What sparked that was I had a podcast guest who had grown up with Yogi parents, but he had never learned how to grieve. He had never had that emulated for him, or, you know, to really be with your emotions, and how to let them move through you and work through them. It was all just, it’s almost as if well, yoga was just this, you’re just going through the motions, right?

Michelle Marsh 38:08
Well, I think a lot of yoga is these days. Isn’t that let’s say it’s a stretching practice. I think the spiritual teachings, which is the spiritual side of of yoga, as a practice is about connection. Actually, I was just reading last night in because as you know, I’ve just started the the teacher training for Kundalini. And and it says in there, I wish I had my manual here, so I could read it out exactly. But it says Yoga is not all of these things that we’re kind of saying right now. It is a relationship. It’s about relationship, relationship to spirit relationship to self relationship to others, which means if you’re in true relationship, you cannot not experience great right, amongst every other emotion as well. So like, without knowing this, this person and his upbringing and what is your your parents are like, I mean, it’s quite possible that they actually never never spoke about that type of thing. Kundalini is quite different from other yoga practices, from what I can see it is all about being embodied, which embodied means experiencing the physical, emotional, and the etheric together as one. But yeah, it happens. And I do it too. I think we all do it.

Victoria Volk 39:33
Especially when life feels like a shitshow. Right? You’ve touched on this now, so let’s go there. Okay, because obviously, you must have some hopes, dreams and expectations or for the future with now Kundalini, but like you said, it’s whatever you go through in life, it’s education. It’s not failure, and no one can take it away from you whether it is a training program or it is a perceived failure perceived by others. So what gives you hope for the future.

Michelle Marsh 40:09
Is failing inside of me. It sounds so whoo and so I exam low, ugly, shy I have honestly come to a point in my own growth and development where I feel like I said, it’s, it’s that so I’ve done so much work on strengthening this inner core and being of myself that there is such a pleasant feeling there. It doesn’t mean I don’t get angry or scared, you know, just this morning, you know, I was, I was saying to my husband, you know, I had had a lot of anxiety coming up around, you know, finances and things because everything’s quite changeable still. But it all seems to work out in the end. And, and I think what gives me hope is that no one can take away this feeling I have inside, the only way it disappears is when I let it disappear, like I did for a moment this morning. So say, Everything’s gonna be okay. It’s all okay. And, and there’s always another opportunity. There’s always another. I’m constantly surprised and delighted life can can offer and deliver. So even if what I’m not envisaging in my mind doesn’t come to fruition. While I was still grief that because like you say, you know, I’ve got another vision in my mind now. Wow, I know, I would grieve that. I also know that whatever comes here has got opportunity for for delight and joy that I can’t even envision right now. And so whichever way it goes, it’s okay. And I think that’s where the hope lies. Now. It’s, which is a funny way to put it, but it’s, it’s, I guess, in the past hope has been in relation to wanting something so that I could be happy. That will make me happier once I have that. Whereas now it’s like there’s there’s a sense of, of joy and connect and contentedness. That’s a word in the now and but a hope for the sparks and joy that I kind of know are going to come anyways, I just don’t know what form along with the, the grief and the pain that I know will be in there as well. And it’s like, okay, let’s do it. Welcome to Life, welcome to Life, which then brings me back to like that Kundalini morning practice. That’s what that feels like, right? And it doesn’t have to be Kundalini Yoga, there’s so many different practices out there that you can get this from. It’s a mixture of this, it’s like your life, because it’s a mixture of intense pain when you have your arms out here for seven minutes. And it really hurts. But then it’s like, why would you do that to yourself. But then at the same time, there’s, like, this box of just moments where everything syncs together, or you get this higher state of awareness after a bit of breath work or meditation or, or, or at achievement, when the first time that you actually managed to keep your arms up there without flaking out. And, and that that willpower, I feel like I need to let my arm down, and then your mind is going, No, I’m gonna stay on that path. No, you’re not putting your arm down, and you just stay there and you stay there and you stay there. That’s the training, but it’s also the experience of so then when it happens in your like day to day life. It’s like, oh, no, I’ve come through that. How many times have I failed? Was my arms falling down? And then I got it. Right. You know, so it’s like, it’s giving you life experience. And I think that’s, again, like I said, those types of practices, training. And, man, I always think Imagine if we all grew up with that kind of training, like understanding not just the physical side of it, like, my teachers speaks wholly in a lot about what’s actually even occurring internally, you know, it’s like, sometimes I’ll be like, there and I’ll be sobbing and so angry. She won’t let me put my hands down Yeah, yeah.

Victoria Volk 44:45
Life training,

Michelle Marsh 44:47
Live training. Yeah, yeah. And there’s lots of ways to do it.

Victoria Volk 44:50
So if people want to learn your way, or want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Michelle Marsh 44:56
Aromalysis which is my business And that is a Romanisis.com.au. And, yeah, there’s a there’s a couple of different offerings in there. One which can be offered to anybody around the world is my wellbeing readings where I use my intuition as well as my knowledge in herbalism, and Western medicine and psychology and everything else that I’ve studied. And basically given an overview of, of your wellness is along with some different suggestions in your lifestyle diet. And really, when it comes down to it, a lot of the time it’s what people are experiencing physically comes down to the grief they are holding within the unprocessed unintegrated emotions. I give some some tips and kind of next steps around that. And then yeah, I also consult with people face to face as well when the opportunity arises.

Victoria Volk 45:57
And do you have two years you make teas as well? Right?

Michelle Marsh 45:59
I do. I do. Oh, thank you for saying, see there’s so many wonderful things in the world. I do I love I love my my teas and my herbs. My shop is not up yet. But it will be discoverable with through aroma Gnosis, so you can follow me on Instagram, I’m at aroma Gnosis as well. And I will have that shot up soon with all my medicinal goodies which I love to when I put them together, I only ever put my my herbals and medicinals together when I am in alignment in myself. And I also like to do it in alignment with the moon and the energies of the planets. And so all of that that’s where the alchemical herbalism comes in. It all comes in into play. And it’s such a beautiful expansive thing to do is to sit there chanting away as you’re as you’re preparing something or have steam, or whatever state of that.

Victoria Volk 46:59
Lots of love infused I do not doubt so much. And I will put the link in to all of your information in the show notes. And is there anything else you would like to share?

Michelle Marsh 47:11
Just deep gratitude for you, my friend, I have learned so much from you about grief. And the true nature of grief. I think it’s it’s we often label it so many other things. And when it comes down to it, it’s it’s it’s grief. And, and not being afraid of that. And yeah, understanding the nuances around it, and this podcast that you’ve been doing and have the most incredible guests on that I’m just like, so amazed that, that I am on here in in the presence of some pretty incredible people, you’re a true gift to the world. An absolute true gift. So thank you so much.

Victoria Volk 47:58
Thank you, thank you for being my friend. Oh, sister from another mother tidally. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for sharing. I think the loss of hopes dreams and expectations is a loss that many people can relate to and experiencing loss during COVID as well. And so I appreciate you sharing your story. We didn’t even get into you map which oh, I want to try and weave that in there some way but didn’t didn’t quite fit. So maybe that’s another conversation for another time.

Michelle Marsh 48:28
Next time. Yeah. So much I could say about that that.

Victoria Volk 48:33
Anything like in a nutshell, like what it what it did for you.

Michelle Marsh 48:36
Yeah. So when you did that, now I’m trying to remember the timeline. But that’s when I was feeling kind of squeezed. And it was towards the end of last year. So it was kind of like when all the things were going on. And at the same time, I was like no, I’m gonna find my path. I will find that way, you know, determined and you you offered the umat to me surprised me most about it was really bringing to my attention, what my priorities were, what my values were. And so I made a decision. Actually, I do remember exactly. It was mid last year because it was when my grandfather died. It was at right at that point. And I remember I was trying to make decisions am I gonna do this, I’m never gonna do that. And when I saw my values written in kind of hierarchy, and and I made a decision to I’m going to live by those because it because you kind of realized that Oh, hang on. I’m putting all my attention into my fifth or sixth Valley. But about that top one that changed my behavior and my actions and still does that was a catalyst into this. This this alien of solid joy and knowledge and knowing that I’ve got that that rock hard feeling that chord that I was talking about. That was a catalyst doing that YouMap I couldn’t recommend it higher. Lay enough to people, it’s such a good way to get to know yourself. Especially if you have no idea, I think, yeah, it is true. If you’re feeling lost, actually, it doesn’t even matter how much you know yourself. I mean, I’ve been doing self development for years, I thought I knew I was like, Yeah, I already know where I’m at, there’s always more to discover it, put it in black and white in front of you, and then try and weasel your way into putting your head back in the sand, it’s really hard to do. So it’s a gift to have in front of you.

Victoria Volk 50:31
Yeah, and for people not familiar with it, I’ll link to it in the show notes. But just it’s a holistic picture of who you really are, that combines your strengths and your values and your skills and, and, and how you’re wired to create this, this map of of you, and it can really shape your path forward. And so thank you for sharing that little snippet of your experience with my listeners. So I’ll put the link to that in the show notes. And thank you again, so much, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.

Ep 96 | Brent Scarpo

Brent Scarpo | A Secret Sign & Lessons from The Shawshank Redemption

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free. – The Shawshank Redemption

This week’s guest, Brent Scarpo, was a casting director for one of the most acclaimed and beloved films of all time, “The Shawshank Redemption.” Through his personal love of the film, he shares a few of his favorite lessons from the movie.

These lessons served him well as he grieved the loss of his best friend and mother to cancer. But a chance conversation with his mother years earlier would be the catalyst for comfort after she passed. They had agreed on a red balloon being the sign they would bring to the other so the one left behind would know there is life after death. They also created very specific rules around this sign and sealed the deal with handwritten letters preserving this conversation and plan in a sealed envelope that wouldn’t be opened until after one of them passed away.

Through his grief, Brent found comfort and healing through group and one-on-one therapy as well. But, the Red Balloon has become a huge part of his existence, landing him on the Today Show, and soon a book releasing, very fittingly, on Mother’s Day.

Brent offers many tips throughout this episode but there’s one question you may be surprised to learn the answer to. What’s the question? How do we learn to laugh again without the person we used to laugh with? The answer? You’ll have to listen to find out!

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Victoria Volk 0:00
Hi this is Victoria of theunleashedheart.com and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30 plus year graver in advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist. I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate gravers and non gravers like spread hope and inspire compassion towards those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with yours and this platform, Grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather? Let’s get started. Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices if this is your first time listening, thank you. And if you’ve been listening for a while now, thank you as well and welcome back. Today. My guest is Brent Scarfo. He has over 30 years of experience as a national speaker, life coach, producer, writer, director, and casting director in Hollywood. He has worked on such well known films as The Shawshank Redemption, that thing you do Air Force One and Matilda additionally, Brent has presented 1000s of programs to high schools, colleges and corporate America, numbering well over 1 million participants. In addition, Brent was featured on The Today Show storytelling writing contest. Everyone has the story, where his story, the red balloon was chosen out of 100,000 entries. The red balloon story beautifully depicts the loving relationship of Brent and his mother and their fascination with life after death. Through many conversations, he and his mother created a plan to prove that in fact, there was life after death, the basis of the red balloon story, which has now become his book, The Red Balloon, how to transform your life one inspirational story at a time. Additionally, Brent is a life coach specializing in millennials, where he takes his years as a former casting director and marries it to his life coaching career and success pro in such programs as the 10 life coaching lessons, I learned casting the Shawshank Redemption. Thank you so much for your time and being here today.

Brent Scarpo 2:26
Well, thank you for that wonderful introduction. I so appreciate being here. And thank you for all that you do.

Victoria Volk 2:31
Yes, thank you for your time. Let’s I guess start with the red balloon and how, how this all came to be and about your mom. And

Brent Scarpo 2:42
Yeah, so my mother, I’m an intuitive life coach, Intuitive Life Coach is somebody that has a high level or we all have an intuition, but I’ve actually worked on it. So you know, it’s like anything else in the body, some muscle that once you flex it, once you strengthen, it just becomes stronger and stronger and stronger. So my mom and I are best friends. She’s a single mom that raised three kids by herself. Her name is Betty Scarfo. And I woke up at three o’clock in the morning one night, and I just I got a message, I got a message that my mother had had cancer. And she had just moved from Warren, Pennsylvania to California where I was living, she lived a few blocks away from me, actually. And I was so overwhelmed by that feeling that I didn’t even go to bed for the rest of the morning. So about eight o’clock, I called her and I said, Hey, Mom, I said when’s the last time you’ve had a physical? Right? I didn’t tell her about the dream. I choose not five years ago, when I left Pennsylvania to come here. And you know, we especially I think with women, we have this ability to take care of everybody else but ourselves. And I was like, Mom, you’ve got to look, I’m making an appointment for you. Right? Well, we made the appointment with my doctor, and everything was hunky dory, except for a chest X ray. And that’s when we found a dark mass the size of a half dollar. And unfortunately, my mother had lung cancer. So I listened to that voice. I listened to my intuition, right as an intuitive life coach, you know, I do programming with clients to help them create the best life possible, the best versions of themselves possible. And so I spent about two and a half years as my mother’s primary caregiver. I told her her only job was to eradicate cancer. And so, you know, I was really grateful because the doctor said, Boy, had you not come, you know, you probably would have would have had a lot less time. And so you just kind of went on this journey. And then, you know, it’s interesting. My mother was diagnosed in the end of 95. She had all of 96 and then on January 26 1997 13 days after her 59th birthday, and six days after my 33rd birthday, my mother unfortunately passed away. She her cancer just And metastasized to her brain. We did hospice, which is the greatest gift to mankind, I highly recommend for anybody who knows that they have to make a transition that you try to choose hospice is the way to make that transition. And years and years and years before that, my mother and I guess we were really good friends, we always talked about things very philosophical we’d ever break we are we call our weekly breakfast, or lunch, and I take her out, and we just talk. So we talked about death and dying, something that people really don’t talk about. And I think we need to talk about it. So I said to you earlier, I’m so grateful for what it is that you’re doing, because people don’t necessarily ties out your top 10 Though, in the last couple of years with COVID, we’ve almost been forced to talk about this. And so I remember, my mother’s one of our favorite bands, is the Beatles. And John Lennon, unfortunately, had just been assassinated. And I remember looking at the New York Times, and they talked about how Yoko Ono and he decided that they were going to come up with a sign so whoever would transition first, we’re bringing that sign back. And to them it was a yellow handkerchief. So I just happen to read the article to my mom and my mom goes, we should do that. Like we should. She was like, Yeah, I was like, Oh, I said, Okay. I said, we’ll we’ll How do we do? What are we going to do? She said, Well, you know, let’s pick assign, we’re just going to you and I, that’s it. And let’s just say that, you know, that person is responsible for bringing it back to the other person, it means that everything we’ve talked about that there is life after death, that there is a higher power of some sort, that there is an essence of who it is that you are, as far as your soul is concerned, when it leaves this earthly body is all true. I said, Okay, and so we decided on a red balloon. And primarily because when I was in second grade, there’s this wonderful French film

Brent Scarpo 6:49
Called La Rouge balloon, and it won an Oscar is phenomenal. And I said, let’s just do a red balloon. She said, Okay. And she said, but this is my mother. She said, It has to show up within 24 hours of the person’s death. Like none of this a month from now, six years from now, six months and now 24 hours. I was like, Okay, let’s, let’s do that. So we had always had this in the back burner for my we never shared it with anybody. And then as my mother was entering her transitional phase and hospice, you know, my grandmother came out my sister and brother and, you know, I kind of remembered it. And I, you know, finally as we’re getting closer, I thought I better sit everybody down and kind of tell them what we did, you know, X amount of years ago, just in case I’m not there when it happens. You know, the last thing I need is, you know, my grandmother who was 82 at the time to have a red balloon appear in front of her her have a heart attack, and I got two dead people on my hands. You know, I mean, it was really, it was getting close. So I sat him down. I said, Look, mom, and I did this thing. And if anything, just kind of quirky happens, the lights go on and offer just just know, it’s her. And I remember my grandmother saying, Well, what was the sign? I say, I just can’t tell you. I said I you know, I just, I just we’ve kept it for so many years. So I was in doing a play called the boys next door, where I played the part of a schizophrenic. Trust me, I had plenty to draw from. And I was really wondering, you know, when my mother passed in the middle of the run, you know, I told the director, I said, Look, I know the show must go on, but I might have just a few little hiccups. The final night. I was in Long Beach, California. I was living in Montrose at the time about two and a half hour drive. Curtain came down last show. I’m driving home. It’s one o’clock in the morning is pouring down rain. I remember, because it doesn’t rain in California. And this is back in the days of beepers. Remember those? And my sister paged me, right? And I pull it off to the side of the road because there’s no iPhones. And I called her and she said, Mom just passed away. I was like, wow, you know, the last curtain call. So I got home and walked in my grandmother, my sister were there. And, you know, I’m the oldest of three kids. So, you know, I think a lot of how we grieve is also based on so many factors, whether we’re men, whether we’re women, whether the oldest child, the youngest child, whether we had a relationship with the person that you passed, or didn’t What kind of relationship was there, as you well know, there’s so many factors. So, you know, I made sure that they were okay. And then, you know, you’re walking over to your dead mother, you know, 59 years old, my best friend, and I just didn’t know how I was going to handle this. I you know, this is my, my first experience with this right, as I said to many people, my mother’s never died before, you know. So, I’ve walked over and as it’s depicted in the today’s show, I leaned over to kiss her on the forehead. And as I went to do that, because she had the hospital sheet up to about her chest, I just saw this little flicker of color I don’t know why I noticed it. But I did. And for some reason I took my hands I pulled the sheet down. And they’re imprinted on my mother’s blue sweatshirt with this huge bouquet of red balloons. I literally went from pure pain, like I’ve never felt and grief that was about to feel to a static joy. And I was I was so taken aback. I was like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I said, Oh, my God, you did it. And I was screaming around the room. I was like, You did it. Oh, my God. Like my mother didn’t wait 24 hours. She Wait 24 seconds. Right? She didn’t. I mean, this was her personality. And I remember my grandma yelling at me. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I said, the sign the sign. Remember what I told you about? She said, Yes. It’s a red balloon. Where did this sweatshirt come from? Right? Because I lived above my sister, my sister was the medical caretaker. So she did all the morphine and all that crazy stuff. And my sister said, Oh, my God. My mother been in hospice for about 36 days. And my sister got up that morning. And she had realized that she hadn’t really changed my mother in a few clean about three, four days. And my mother was just hideous about changing her clothes and being clean. So she’s like, Oh, he couldn’t do it by herself. So she called the nurse she says, anyway, you can stop by today, you know, this morning and help me change mom and bather and the nurse like, we’re so sorry, but we have a major emergency here at the hospital. I can’t. So my sister being my sister, got really frustrated. She walked into her bedroom, she picked up the first sweater that was on top of the pile that I brought 36 days ago from upstairs because she was living my mom with me. She just wrangled her top off, put that tarp on, decided that she wasn’t going to try and do the bottoms. And that was the shirt. And that night, as well. My mother passed away.

Victoria Volk 11:53
Wow I know. I had goosebumps.

Brent Scarpo 11:58
It’s just, you know, and I will say this to you as well. And I shared with you that my red balloon book, it’s a life coaching book has taken me 10 years to do, it’s going to come out on Mother’s Day. It’s official Mother’s Day 2022. Because I’ve been working on this, as I say bottle of wine for 10 years. So when will you uncork it is going to be delicious, that kind of deal. But I’m going to do an anatomy book on you step by step instruction on how you can do this as well, because one of the things that we did is just to prove all this. Because I said to my mom, I said well, you know, if we can’t say anything to anybody, how are they? How are they going to believe us? Right? And she said, Oh, no, no, she she brought that up as well. And I had this idea. So I wrote out the scenario, the red balloon and all that. I put it in an envelope. I mailed it to she and I and then it was post stamped. Right. So then after you’re done, and we’re going through that grieving process, and these are these tokens that you have, in an effort to get through the grieving process, I just at one point in time, decided to open it up and share it with everybody in my immediate family is like, look, this is what we did during the death of John Lennon. And we’ve been planning this for years. And it was really nice. And you know, there was a number of witnesses, which I’m really grateful for. And then my mother chose to be cremated. And I remember the crematorium saying, Is there anything you want in with her? You know, I guess you can do sir. And I decided to do that letter. You know, we’d all seen it. And so I said, Yeah, I had this letter died, like look like to give you. So it was I don’t know, it just gave me a lot of peace to help me with my grieving process. It was something that we did very proactive. And the beauty of this is that, you know, this is something anybody can do. Anybody can do. You know, even since then, I mean, there’s a whole book just on red blue sightings I’ve had since 19 9700s. You know, whenever I’m feeling a little down, I’ll say, Mom, if I could get a red balloon, this would be really great. Right? It just happened recently. You know, I was actually on my computer here. And I had asked for it a couple days ago and I turned around and you know, the TV’s on. And there’s this old show Hogan’s Heroes. What was my mother’s favorite one of our favorite shows, and there’s Schultz, literally, with a bouquet of red balloons in his hand and a teddy bear and thank God I grabbed my phone, and I took a picture of it. And I put it on Facebook I said for all my red balloon fans yet again, my mother proves that there is life after death. So it’s been a it’s been an amazing journey that I’m really excited about sharing with the overall public next year. So the goal is to have the book come out tour all over the United States raise monies for charities and just get people to be a little bit more peace with this thing called grieving a death and dying and that you can plan for it. You know, people just write a will and they think that’s all you can do. No, no, no, there’s so much more you can do.

Victoria Volk 14:53
And as an end of life doula I can say to that you have a lot of choice in that you because you can, there are things that you can do or add into the dying process as the person dying. I mean down to what you want the environment like who do you want to visit you or not visit you, you know what kind of legacy you can create a legacy project as a family. And in a way, like, that’s kind of what you did like this legacy. Not a project, but this legacy. That became a project, right? It was this idea that is now almost a legacy project in a way.

Brent Scarpo 15:30
Yeah, we were, we didn’t know what we were doing. You know, my mother was people. Yeah, we just kind of did. I mean, obviously, now you’re looking at here we are in 2021. And I did something well, nobody knows this, you’ll be the first to hear this. So I spoke to you earlier that I have this adoptive grandmother, and unfortunately, she passed away on Valentine’s Day from from COVID, and some other complications. And I’ve known her for 26 years. And as you will know, you know, the grieving process doesn’t have to be over a human being, it could be over a puppy, it could over be your 401 K just went down to zero. It can be you know, a best friend or, you know, so many different types of losses of divorce. And so, I came out here just because I promised Edna, who’s the adoptive grandmother that I would look in on their daughter, they have an only child and the two granddaughters. So I’ve been here for a couple of months. But it didn’t start out that way. Because I live in Palm Springs, and I’m from Warren, Pennsylvania. So I got here and I drove right, I drove all 2467 miles and I have been to my mother’s grave site, which is still a tiny little town. It’s got a hill, you know, the first year to your point, you know, we did the candles, you pay for the candles on her on the day she died her birthday. We did the wreath during Christmas. And I think we did that for the first two years. And then I’ve been back a couple different times because it’s you know, it’s on the other side of the of the United States. But my goal really was to visit it because I realized that January 26, will be 25 years, right? So to your point, not only can you plan before you pass away, then during the process, what do you want to what do you want that to look like or be like, you know, I was just flying off the seat of my pants, one of the your point, environmental things I did was she will never be alone, right? There will be somebody around her holding her hand 24 hours a day, seven days a week through the entire process until she dies, she will never she’ll I said that people volunteer, do not walk out of a cigarette, she can not be left alone for let know, for 10 seconds is 20 seconds too long, right? It’s just that was sort of the some of the parameters that I put together, not knowing there are other things that you can do. And so I realized I was about seven and a half hours away from here. So I just got back. And I went and visited my mother. And I’m going to actually put it on Facebook and YouTube and such on January 26. But here we are 25 years later, and I went to her grave site and it’s overgrown. You know, the bronze is all just as dark as dark as it could be. And I remember going on to YouTube, and there’s really great organizations that go to VA cemeteries and headstones. And they just redo them, you know, for the military. And so I got these great ideas. I spent three days and let me tell you, my mother’s gravesite is the bomb. It’s just beautiful. It’s like, but again, you know, cuz she was cremated. So her ashes are there. But for me, it was yet another way of being able to process my feelings. Here we are 25 years later, clearly, I’ve gone through the seven stages of grief. But I look at this now. And it’s I mean, might I say it is the most beautiful grave site in the entire War Memorial Cemetery. Because you know, you can do that. So there’s the before there’s a during and there’s an after.

Victoria Volk 18:51
I’m just curious, so she was a veteran?

Brent Scarpo 18:54
No so no. Question. No. So what I did was is I was just going to go visitor, that’s it, right? And then there’s this website called Find a grave.com. Right? So because I worked in the entertainment industry for many years, you literally can go on to this websites completely free of charge. And you can find, I’m telling you pretty much anybody’s grave, anybody’s celebrity or non celebrity. And so, you know, I’ve seen like, you know, different celebrities and things and I know there’s YouTube videos and I’m you know, this is me, but I love cemeteries I love walking in because I think it’s quiet. I’d love when it says 1609 to 17 something, it’s just I don’t know, there’s something peaceful for me, it’s my thing. So I thought well, I wonder if my mother’s is there. So it was somebody took a picture and they put it up there. And I remember seeing how dilapidated it was. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to drive out there. You know, so 25th Memorial, and so you God bless YouTube. I went on there just to see well, how, how do you clean the bronze? So there was this guy. And there’s these groups. And what they do is they travel all over the United States, and they specifically clean military headstones. And I saw that YouTube, and I just saw the techniques that they use. So it was that YouTube that sparked the idea for me, but I thought how wonderful. There’s actually organizations all over the country, and they just volunteer and they go to all these different, you know, vet that memorials and headstones. And I’ve seen dozens and dozens and dozens of them. So no, she wasn’t a vet. But that I was when I was researching and I saw you get this bottle of this stuff. You do this, use this scrub, if it’s bronze, you do this, if it’s a headstone, you do this, I’m like, Okay, I’m taking notes down. And I literally had all my stuff put in the back of the car. And it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful.

Victoria Volk 20:53
That’s, that’s a really good tip. And I’m actually going to if you can send me that link. I’ll put it in the show notes for others, too. Oh, yeah. Oh, great. But also that the tutorial on how to

Brent Scarpo 21:05
Yeah, yes, great. I’m telling you, I looked at probably half a dozen and this one, right before I left, because, you know, for the most part, it my mother’s is it’s a bronze plaque plaque that’s in the ground versus a headstone. But they have that. But I mean, they tell you, like, you know, you know, to get 25 years of organic matter off the concrete, there’s a certain formula you use, and then, you know, cutting it away. And then there’s this guy, he’s got the tombstone cleaner, starter kit. So I bought that off of amazon.com. And, you know, as you said, the before and after pictures, but yeah, I’ll send you a bunch of links. There’s, there’s just, I mean, it’s weird. You think that like, like, in my brain, I’m like, No one does this, I’m but I’m going to do it. And then because of technology, where we can use technology to our advantage versus our disadvantage, you go online, and I literally, I’m telling you, you probably saw a dozen people, there was these two ladies, they were funny as all Caboose, and they did a whole, like, you know, they had to edit it, right was step by step they had, they brought out a picnic basket, they did the blanket, you know, they sprayed the thing, they’re like, oh, my gosh, this really smells bad. No wonder it cleans everything off. I mean, really, for what is, you know, could be a very sad time, you know, and then the before after pictures, and there was this is one I looked at, oh, this was really, you know, again, for me, it was really nice to do this, because it helps me process my own feelings in regards to having her her been passed for 25 years. So I saw one more and the guy was doing the whole thing cut around the grass, take, you know, get a get a spatula or whatever, the garden, do all this. And then he was redoing his son’s marker, because his son passed when he’s like two or three. So it was like, Oh my gosh. So you know, and he’s just, it wasn’t bad. But he got rid of all the grass. And then he dug like a four inch trench around the entire marker. And he’d lined it with this netting. And then he put it in white gravel. And I was like, that’s what I’m doing. Like, it was so beautiful. And then I hear I don’t I don’t know if I can even do this. Let’s let’s just see what we can do with technology. If it’s even possible. All right. We’ll see. We’ll see if we can see. We’ll see if we can see this on. On the wonderful. You too. Right. So I don’t know if I can even be seeing probably a little bit Oh, I’ll link to Okay, that’d be great. And then it? Yeah, I’ll send you the pictures and such. And that’s, that’s what it turned out to be. Yeah, the before and after, but yeah, I’ll, I’ll I’ll send you the pictures. And you can post them however you likes as people use so people can see, this is yet another thing that you can do afterwards. And just the I was on a, an all time high for good three, four or five days because it took so much work. And it really was painful, but it also joyful at the same time. And it was arduous and but it just felt so good to be able to do that for her 25 years later.

Victoria Volk 24:15
Well, and I think it’s a good point to mention, just because the fact especially if you’re the caregiver, or caretaker of someone, and you know, grief and of itself is if you think of grief, it’s like a change in behavior, like a familiar pattern of behavior. And so if you wake up every day and your first thought is what you’re going to do or what you need to do to care for your loved one who’s dying, and then they pass away and you wake up the days after that it’s that is a change in your behavior. You’re no longer waking up to care for that person. And so that’s added grief, right? Like what do you do with you, you know, you just you took some may find some relief and then you also but then again that can be conflicting because you feel bad then because you’re relieved because that, you know that that responsibility is no longer there and you feel guilty because that responsibility is no longer there.

Brent Scarpo 25:10
Well and even to your point, I’ll be very transparent. So one of the things that I did is, you know, as my mom was going through hospice, and they were wonderful, they gave us the names and numbers of different grief groups, and I chose to, I made a conscious choice. And I, I don’t care if it’s a grief group, I don’t care if it’s a life coach, such as me. But you know, the greatest advice I can give any person that goes through the grieving process, I don’t care what it is that you lose is not to do it alone. Do not do it alone. I went to therapy once a week with this wonderful chaplain, I went to group therapy one to two times a week for two years, that was like my gift to myself, right? Because I spent two and a half years, you know, working with my mom, and then it was just sort of amazing what you find out to your point, you know, I had to have this job. This is a job for two and a half years caring for my mother day and night. Right. And then when it was done, I was like, What do I do now? Like, like, I had gotten a rhythm, I got a rhythm, I hardly slept, my immune system was an all time high. And I remember when she finally passed, and I got to the grave site came back to California about two, two and a half weeks later, never been so sick. My immune system just said, okay, you’ve been on this roll, dude, for two and a half years, we need to relax. And, you know, again, I just employ all your listeners that just don’t do it alone. I mean, I think the greatest emotional challenge I faced in my grieving process was, and I didn’t really know this consciously. But it came up and it was painful, painful, is that, I realized that in my mind that I had failed. See, as my mother’s caregiver, my unconscious, said to me, your job is to save her. Well, I failed, I failed. And I’m a man. So that just adds a lot of, you know, stuff and layers because, you know, we’re the, we’re the, we’re the, we’re the we’re the caveman that go out there, and we get the food, and we help out the family. And that’s our role. And I really struggled with the idea that I didn’t save my mom. And then through really great counselors and such I came to realize it wasn’t my job to save my mother from cancer. Well, my job was to love her as best as I possibly could. And then finally came to the understanding that in that job, I was quite successful.

Victoria Volk 27:48
That’s a very good reframe. Imagine, well imagine how many people are torturing themselves with that same, that same story?

Brent Scarpo 27:57
It’s, it’s when that came up, I mean, I can I can, I can see the chaplain and, you know, and she was just, you know, this quiet denier kind of woman and she’s like, What do you, you know, do you ever blame yourself for not, you know, that your mom died? I was like, Okay. Never really addressed that question before. Why is that coming up? Right. And then all these feelings just came up. But um, I was like, yes. You know, I’m the eldest child. I’m, you know, my mom’s a single mom. There’s no husband or father, of course, I’m supposed to save her. And yes, I failed. I failed, I failed, I failed. And then through working with her, we were able to reframe it in a way that that was my, that wasn’t my job. You know, is it? Is it our job to save the person who’s going through this process? Or is it our job just to love them and be with them as best as we possibly can?

Victoria Volk 28:48
Yeah. So growing up, you mentioned it was a single household and things and so your dad was never in the picture?

Brent Scarpo 28:58
Yeah so my parents divorced when I was four. We were I was born in Pennsylvania, raised in California, but my father was a alcoholic, unfortunately, and so a bit of a narcissist. And so my mom being, you know, this is the late 60s or early 60s rather. And so she took it upon herself that I have three children, you know, I need to, you know, be there and have their best interests in mind. And so then she moved all of us back to Pennsylvania where her parents lived. And so yeah, he was never really in the picture. There’s one story about him, which is probably another show, because he didn’t show up one time, which was a very interesting time when I was 21. But no, for the most part, you know, she was a single woman at three raised three kids by herself, you know, way before the internet way before you know all that stuff. I like to say that she paved the road for a lot of these women that you know, are trying to get child support from the various people that keep evading it for some reason and, you know, laying down the laws that were necessary so that you know, these women And men can make sure that, you know, they’re getting the support that they need both, you know, financially, emotionally, psychologically, physically, you know, from the from the relationship.

Victoria Volk 30:09
Did any of those feelings from that loss of not having him in your life come up when your mom passed?

Brent Scarpo 30:17
Yeah, that’s a great question. No, and I think so funny, I really have addressed this. You know, when I moved to California, which is in 1985, it was a couple of years after that, that my mother had called me and she said, I know this was a little strange, but you know, I got a call from one of the relatives and your father passed away. Right? And I was like, Oh, okay. You know, and so, you know, I, again, you know, I, I have memories of him from zero to four, but never really had any kind of time with him. And so, you know, I shared that with my sister. The interesting thing is that my sister just burst into tears, which that sort of blew my mind. And then for me, and we sat and talked, you and I, we processed it together. And, you know, I think, because she’s the only girl, there was never that daddy figure. There was no, that father figure that I know, girls really long for and I think her grieving process was the possibility that that could be. And now that was gone. For me. It was interesting, because I’m one part I thought, Should I be crying? I was like, because I’m not, you know, and, and I explored, and I said, Well, you know, I don’t have any time with you, I don’t have life experiences with this person. I don’t have memories of this person. So, you know, I don’t have the ability to grieve over something that did not exist. Right. Was I sorry, they died. Sure. But to answer your question, I don’t think so. Because he had passed. And because I reconcile all of that, there really wasn’t, he was so out of my mind. Now that I think about I mean, that was the last person I was thinking about, you know, my, my focus is really about this woman who, you know, left this man to take on the responsibility of raising three children as best as she possibly can. And for me, it was like, Okay, I’m going to, I’ll share this story with which I think epitomizes this, I think, you know, because there are two types of dying, as you know, the one we know that’s coming. And the one that’s a surprise, you know, I had a friend that died in the Twin Towers, that was a shock. That was a surprise, right? My mother had 36 days in hospice, we could prepare for that. So those are the two forms of dying. And I remember when the neurologist came in and said, Look, your mother’s lung cancer has metastasized to her brain. And there’s nothing we can do the worst sentence in the human language, I think. And so you wrap your head around what that means. It’s like, oh, oh, oh, she’s gonna die. Okay, you didn’t say it out loud. But I was, I got what you were referring here, right? So you go through the process of what you’re going to do. And so because of my mother’s insurance, and so I said, Well, you can do you know, we can put her in a nursing home that deals with this kind of thing. Or you can do hospice, I never heard of hospice before, right? So we get all the details. And I sit down with my sister and brother, because you know, this is where then it gets really sticky. Because depending on your family dynamics, depending on how much money there is, depending on what your morals and values and ethics are each person that comes to the table when you have this transition. So I remember sitting down with them and saying, This is going to happen, you know, how do we want this to happen? And I decided as the oldest that we just be very democratic and whatever, you know, the two out of three, you know, versus being my way, because I know me. So So what do you think my sister the whole nursing home? My brother goes a nursing home, I’m like, Oh, my God. Like, that’s the last thing my mother wanted. I mean, she I said, we, you know, mom never wanted to be in it. She said, If anything should ever happen, please, oh, God, don’t put me in a nursing home. Well, they, you know, just decided to forget that part. Right. So I sat down, we just had the dialogue and the dialogue and the dialogue about it. And I knew, right, just with my work, I knew that it wasn’t about my mother, going into hospice and or going into a nursing home. What it was about was the fear that they were going to face if she was going to be in hospice and actually being proactive in the process. So if you put her in the nursing home and somebody else does it, if you put it right, and I went, Okay, so this is what I said to them, and it worked. And I I don’t even know, this is my intuitive self. I said, Look, I’ll make you a deal. Because we were at an impasse. I’ll lead this you don’t have to be there, 24/7. But I want your assistance, I want you to be there because I want you to be part of the process all leave this, let’s just do this. Let’s do hospice, let’s do hospice this time. And then I said, and this Hi, mom dies, we’ll do the nursing home. And he just looked at me.

Brent Carpio 35:18
And he’s like, What do you mean? I said, because this is the first time she’s going to do this, we get one chance. And I’m just afraid we’re gonna pick the wrong one. And they decided that we would do hospice,

Victoria Volk 35:30
That’s a good reframe to specialize in reframing.

Brent Scarpo 35:35
You know, it’s just like, oh, you know, so? Yeah.

Victoria Volk 35:39
The reason why I asked about your father and stuff is because grief is cumulative. And it’s cumulatively negative. And I know you said that, you know, your grief experience with that was very different from your sisters. And you had mentioned something, and I just want to come back to it, because I think it’s important for anyone listening. And what you had said was, you can’t grieve something for someone that wasn’t there. To that effect, you had so

Brent Scarpo 36:04
Much well, and what I mean by there is that, you know, so much of our grief comes out of the memories and the life experiences that we had with the individual, right? That whole process, the good, the birthday parties, the vacations, the all that stuff, right. My father was in my life, like, I didn’t have those experiences I never talked to him. You know, I remember a form that says, so there’s this space that has no life experiences whatsoever with him. So there’s no memories of being able to say, oh, my gosh, I miss when he put me on his shoulders, and we went to the playground together. Now, I had already, I think, in my mind dealt with the grief of not having a father, right, and especially going in the 60s because, you know, look, when I was in first grade, there were 32 students, I’ll never forget this Urbandale elementary school, there are 32 students out of 32 students in 1968, I was the only one that came from divorced parents. Now, look at it, there’s probably one or two people that even have parents are still together the same number. So for me, I think I went through the grieving process of realizing that I was not going to have a father over the course of time of my teen years and early adult years. So by the time I learned the died, I had been through those seven stages, right? You know, the whole shock and denial and pain and guilt. And well, why don’t have a father and my mom and I, we had dozens and dozens and dozens of conversations about my dad. Right? So she was very open and transparent, authentic about that what it was about. So I think by the time I got to that I was good, because I had gone through those stages of what it meant not to have a father in my life. Whereas my sister hadn’t. You know, my sister was still holding on to the hope that he was going to come back. So when that hope

Victoria Volk 37:51
Yeah, and that’s what I wanted to mention. Oh yeah, please grief. Grief is the loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. And anything we wish would have been different, better or more.

Brent Scarpo 38:00
Well said. Yeah. My sister right there.

Victoria Volk 38:03
Yeah exactly. So that’s why I just kind of wanted to circle back to that. Why some. And because everybody’s relationship is unique and individual, right? So even, you know, that’s, that’s where two people in the same household can have very different experiences.

Brent Scarpo 38:19
I was shocked when she burst into tears. I was like, because the then my sister is a very controlling individual. She controls her emotion, very, very aware. Well, so not only it wasn’t that she cried, but I was like, you don’t cry. Like this is the Okay, I need to sit down. I’m sitting down. And, you know, she sat down. I said, Okay, we got to processes a little bit. So, but to your to what you just shared? You’re absolutely correct.

Victoria Volk 38:46
And you said something there. And I want to highlight this too, is that at some point with grief, either we implode or we explode. And so that is full expression that unexpected expression of grief could have been years and I were not analyzing or judging but I just to give people an understanding of why that could happen. Or where that comes from is when we spend so many years stuffing, stuffing, stuffing stuffing, we either implode or we exploit either our health deteriorates, or we outwardly express it with anger, turning to food or drugs or alcohol or relationships, things like that. And so I just wanted to, to highlight that too, for people listening.

Brent Scarpo 39:28
Yeah, I agree with you. 100% I think I think even in my two years of my grieving I there was not drugs or anything like that. But there. I think we all adopt certain behaviors and an effort to deal with, you know, whatever particularly is happening in our lives emotionally, especially as it relates to grieving. So I think we all have that. It’s just, you know, to our earlier conversation, this is why I say don’t do this alone, right to isolate yourself and sit in the dark with the lights off and just mourn over the person that you loved. I mean, I remember are, you know, it was so telling, I remember when my mom passed, right? And then you know you we have a number we call, you know, the come and pick her up. And it was just such a great experience because it was my grandmother, my sister and my mother. And the two gentlemen that came to take my mother’s body, you know, we’re just sitting there like, I’ve never done this before. And he said, Listen, you know, command make a suggestion. I said, sure. He said, Why don’t you spend some time with her, but then I’m going to suggest that maybe you go into the bedroom, because what we have to do to prepare her may not want may not want to be the last memory you have of her. And I was like, I got it. Right. I seen enough movies. And I was like, okay, yeah. So we did our thing went inside the bedroom, right sat there for about 10 minutes, he knocked on the door, he said, we’ve taken her and we will take care of her. I mean, he was so amazing. I mean, these are the two guys that take her to the morgue. That’s what they do. But how he did it was just so amazing. So by that time, then the nurse came in. And she was sitting us down talking all that. And so she said we’re which you know, again, when she said it was weird. She said, where is all the medicine and the morphine and such I said, Oh, I have it all organized over here, right? The next thing I knew, she took out this garbage bag. And she started going rifling through our stuff, what we’ve paid for in the bag, taking the pills and the morphine. And I was like I said, scuze me, what are you doing? She’s Oh, we have to take this. I said, No, you don’t. I said, that’s our stuff we paid for? No, we have to take it. When you sign that you are going to do hospice, this is part of the process. I said, Well, you really need to explain yourself. And she sat me down, she said, because we have so many instances where the husband loses the wife, and then they make the call. And we come back to two bodies. So we’re going to take away everything that may allow you to cause harm to yourself. And then she gives you the numbers of the counselors and the group therapy and the chaplain. Right? What a learning curve. What I was like, wow,

Victoria Volk 42:17
In my end of life, doula training, that was one thing that wasn’t said, actually.

Brent Scarpo 42:22
So I have a job, I would add that

Victoria Volk 42:26
The one thing that was said was as the loved ones, and the person that’s trans going to be transitioning, you can choose to wash their body, right? And you know, as a person dying, you can choose if you want your body washed or not. And do you want your whole body washed or just your face? Or you know, and I think that’s where it’s not. I think we’re so afraid of the dying process in general, I think hospice actually gives an opportunity to be a part of the process.

Brent Scarpo 43:02
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think that’s, I mean, I, in the two years, I did the glue therapy and such I remember being on it was some kind of, well wouldn’t be a webinar, but they were able to put it together. But I remember whoever invented hospice, they were doing this talk, they were one of the guests, and it was just fascinating to hear this person back in the day. Because I was really in it to win it. Yeah, at that time. I was like, okay, you know, I’m going through this process, I, you know, didn’t become a grief counselor, per se, but we took courses to allow me to at least help facilitate and, and such. So it’s a well, it gives you that ability to be part of to be proactive, versus we can just come to a nursing home and we go and visit her for an hour each day. And then we come home and we live our lives. But to me that would just have added more angst to the grief process for us. Had we chosen that route.

Victoria Volk 43:59
I’m going to share something too, just because I have a podcast episode coming out soon with Ken Ross. And by the time this airs, I’ll link to it in the show notes. But Ken Ross is Elisabeth Kubler Ross is son. I think who you’re talking about is his mother. She Yes. She was the pioneer.

Brent Scarpo 44:19
Yeah yes, yes, yes. Yes, that’s exactly right. Your app. I love it. I love the synchronistic moment that we’re having right now. You’re I couldn’t pull it. You’re absolutely correct. You’re absolutely I remember so well.

Victoria Volk 44:32
She was the trailblazer for hospice and palliative care. But actually, you said to the seven stages of grief and she’s known for the five stage five stages. Exactly right. But it’s actually not five stages. It’s actually she talked about 10 different emotions, because really, they’re not even stages. They’re kind of like these, like an emotional scale that doesn’t go in like this linear.

Brent Scarpo 44:57
No, it’s yeah, you’re absolutely right. I You know, I mean, because of the two years I spent, I mean, so to your point, ironically, we were able to bring this all together. Yeah, it was the five. And then, you know, as I continued to do research, it was like the seven. And then you know that this is not, you know, this is more like, what someone would call it, it was a universal roller coaster where you go up and then to the side, and then you go back again. And then you then you get to the top and then the roller coaster goes in reverse and you’re one and then you go to seven, then you go to the three and yeah, it’s all individualistic.

Victoria Volk 45:32
She her work. And Ken and I talked about this, too. It’s there’s so much more to her work than that. It was talked about so much at one point, she just didn’t even want to talk about it. Like it was like, that’s all anybody like social, like the media. That’s what everybody latched on was her brand. That was her. And her work was just so much more than that. I can imagine. Yeah. So anyway, I just

Brent Scarpo 45:58
Want to listen to that. I’m excited. You have to send that to me.

Victoria Volk 46:01
Next, that’s next week, Tuesday. It’s coming out. Oh, nice.

Brent Scarpo 46:04
Okay I will be there. Actually, not

Victoria Volk 46:05
Next week. Tuesday. Today’s Monday, tomorrow?

Brent Scarpo 46:09
Yeah, okay, I got I got it on my list of things to do.

Victoria Volk 46:12
Okay so back to you. And I just, I’m going to share this because, and I meant to share this earlier when you were talking about red balloon. And we’ll circle back to that. Because I had had a medium psychic medium reading for the first time earlier this year. And, and it was my dad passed away when I was eight. So it’s been well over 30 years. And I have never had a reading. And so one of the things I’d asked for after that reading, which was I think in April this year, if I’m remembering correctly, just maybe two months after that. I had asked for a red balloon. Oh, oh, I did not get it. I did not get it or see it or be open to seeing it until you submitted your application to be on my podcast.

Brent Scarpo 47:08
Oh, my goodness Well, this, I curious if you’re open to this, you don’t have to share? Can I ask who your meeting was that we who did reading

Victoria Volk 47:18
Siri Bernsen? I did a podcast interview with her. She was on my podcast to.

Brent Scarpo 47:24
Okay, so so we’re really gonna have a synchronistic moment here. So one of the one of the reasons but so we’re in I live in Warren, Pennsylvania. And so we’re really close for about maybe 20 minutes away from the New York state border lines. And there’s this little town called Lily Dale, New York. Lilydale has been around for years, it’s considered one of the top 10 Psychic towns in the United States. And my mother and her best friend were always go there. You know. I mean, they’ve got the mediums, they’ve got the psychics, all that. And now they do workshops, and they have conservatory. I mean, it’s just incredible. So my mother was very much into it. So we share this. Fast forward, I moved to California. And, you know, I look, I’m a believer in many paths, you just have to prove it to me. I mean, seriously. And this is also featured in my book. So there’s a whole thread. But a really good friend of mine said she’s like, you know, look this guy, you know, his name is James from Prague. He is this evidential medium, and, you know, I met him recently. He’s, I think you really like him. And so long story short, you know, James on Prague, who’s written 10, New York Times best seller books, you know, in the late, probably 80s, early 90s. He was the he was the guy, he had his own talk show. I mean, just phenomenal. But he at that time was just, you know, this guy that was doing, you know, like, to your point, he was doing readings, and and she called my friend, she said, Oh, he’s doing this gathering, let’s go. And you know, it’d be these gatherings of, you know, four or 500 people, he would do samplings and then, you know, people would hire him to do readings at his home. So I signed up, I signed up what the heck, I you know, I was it was fascinating. So, this was in, let me see, if I get this right here, maybe for like three minutes, like around 1990. So I do my reading, right? It’s all tape recorded and such. And it was phenomenal. It was phenomenal. Because he’s an evidential medium, and there are cons and there are real people. There are scams, and I do believe people have gifts. But what was really interesting is that he I pulled up in front of his house in Hollywood, and he lived in a city area of Hollywood is in East Hollywood. And I just sat there I was like, Oh, this is going to be really, you know, kind of deal you know, and so, and my father had passed by this time and my mother had moved to California. So I saw go up. I knocked the door here. because at the door, he’s a short little man with a mustache. And he said, Oh, come on, can we can manage to get a glass of water? This is pre computers, right? Because now it’s a little difficult in terms of authenticity, because you know, everyone blames psyches for googling people, right? Because we have, we can do that. Now. There was no Google, there was nothing. There was no computer. I mean, very little computers. So we sat down, we’d like to kind of we do the prayer. And he looks at me, he goes, he goes, Are you a little nervous? And I said, Well, I said, I’m open to this. Trust me. He knew about Lilydale. He said, Well, your father’s here. Well, that was the last person that I thought was going to come through. I was like, you know, and he’s saying to you that you sat outside for about 20 minutes, because you’re worried about what would happen if your dad came? I sat outside for 20 minutes in the car thinking that very thoughts, right. And then he kept he kept saying things that, like nobody knew, like nobody on the planet knew but me. And to me, it was really interesting, because clearly in the spirit world, there’s no sense of time. Because your dad, he said, Oh, my God, your dad’s laughing. Was he laughing at? He says, laughing because, you know, he saw you sneaking out the bedroom window and sitting on the roof, looking at the stars. Will. I did that when I was seven. But they divorced when I was four. I said, Well, how does he know that? He said, Oh, time is, is there’s no such I was like, and nobody know I’d never even told my mother. I used to do that. Right? Well, then we get done. And he goes, we’re in the middle of and he said, Hey, do you need a job? I said, Excuse me. He thought my 13 foot Indian guy just got in the front of the line that the people are they’re here to see you. It sounds so sweet. Give you a job. Let’s talk about afterwards. I became James on Pogs first personal assistant for two years. So go read that. Yeah, my, my path has been very interesting. I mean, I remember the last. I remember the last appointment, because then I was going on to do Shawshank Redemption, right? And had to put my notice, and in the last appointment, he’s always nice, someone coming. It’s okay. I’m gonna go take a walk. And so there’s a knock on the door and I open the door and there stands shear. And she’s like, I have the right place is this changed on Prague? And I said, Oh, Michelle.

Brent Carpio 52:22
Dave, I said, Yes, you do. And she, she said, she had a jaguar. She said, It’s my, it’s my car safe out there. I said, Oh, I said, I’ll watch it. Don’t bother. So got her in Saturday down, got her some water. James came, took her upstairs did her thing. I watched a jaguar. And that was my last last time working with him. But for two years, you know, I worked with him. And, you know, he taught me and you know, I experienced all of that. So yeah.

Victoria Volk 52:53
So do you feel like, I mean, intuition, like, as a kid, like, did you have, you know, worked on it. But you know, so many of us, and especially when we’re grieving or in grief, we it’s really hard for us to tap into our intuition.

Brent Scarpo 53:10
Well, it’s okay. It’s not hard to tap into it, because it’s always there. Right? What’s difficult is believing that you have our brain gets in the way. Oh, we all have it. I do this with my life coaching clients all the time. So I’ll give you great examples. Because this is what I try to do is, is that they’ll hire me and I said, Well, you have all the answers. You’re just not listening to him. They’re like, What do you mean? I said, No, no, you do we all do. But how do we choose to listen to we choose? Look, I remember when James had a reading, and he had this guy. And what I loved about James is when he if he says it’s you, and there’s a woman here that has a pocket of coins that you use to collect, you know, and he will not deviate. Right? If the guy said no, that’s not me. He goes, No, it’s you. Right? And I remember this one time this guy Nope, it’s not me. It’s not me. It’s not me. It’s not me. We get done two hours, right? People are like, you know, all over James and such. And I remember seeing the guy off to the right. And he waited for probably good half hour and release. He comes over and, and you know, James and he talked he said, listen, all that really did happen. I was just afraid to say something. So to your point. Yeah, you know, this is in the book as well. I knew my mother was gonna die at a young age. I’ve always known. I’ve known since I was 13 years old. I didn’t share it with anybody. You know, it’ll be the fact in the book. And this podcast is probably the first time I’ve said it to a few people wanted to speak but I remember my mother and I got into an argument. And I could see things so since I was like six years old, like I could see the future. I you know, those those sort of premonitions. Like I would just like know things about people. I would it was just the scariest and oddest thing growing up in a small town in Warren, Pennsylvania, but I just kind of kept it to myself. of my mother and I was 13, we just moved to this new house. And I got a huge argument with her nice mad and I ran out the house to go across the street to play with some friends. And I got halfway across the street. And I remember getting to the other side to the sidewalk, and I just collapsed. And I just burst into tears, you know, and I knew I could feel this like, because I heard this message saying, you know, you need to be kind to your mother because she’s not going to be around long. And I like I saw her death I knew was gonna be young. And I literally that moment change. We had a good relationship, but my respect for her. And my devotion really to her had really changed because I really believed that she was gonna leave at a young age. So then at 33, when I woke up at three o’clock in the morning, and I said, I heard the message, she got cancer, I was like, This is it. Now, though, I will say that when I went through the process with her being a primary caregiver, I was fully believing that she was going to be cancer, because I don’t think anything’s set in stone. I think how we interact our energy what we do, can we change our destiny? Yeah, absolutely. Nothing’s written in stone, kind of deal. But, you know, that’s what I use. That’s why I talked to you earlier, I said, you know, I do these intuitive readings for clients before we do my four month program. And so you know, something I want to offer your audience. So, you know, if you text, the word voices, or voice with doesn’t matter, whatever works, just texted to me at 760-835-3327. Again, just text voices to 760-835-3327. As long as I’m alive and well, and six feet above ground, I said, I will text you back. And this is a complimentary intuitive reading. It’s what I do for all prospective clients, but just for people, because I want you to have something and I’m about I’ve plotted this Excel spreadsheet, I just did three this past two days. I’m about 86%. Correct, right. And what we do is, you know, it just whatever comes up, and for me, I share with clients or four things that come up the good, the bad, the ugly, and the beautiful, because that’s our life. Yeah. That’s our life.

Victoria Volk 57:19
There’s so many different ways I could go from here. Not sure what’s to go. Maybe your intuition will lead you lead this conversation where it should go, because you’ve you’ve given you’ve given a tip, like don’t you know, for Grievers is to not grieve alone. And that’s not too long give somebody one of the best pieces of advice you ever received, while you were grieving was,

Brent Scarpo 57:44
I would say the best piece of advice that I received when I was grieving. Because I got so many I would say, here’s what I’ll say. I remember when I was doing the grief group and this woman, this was at a hospital in Glendale is a couple miles down the stream, this one was incredible. I don’t even know she’s still with us. But I went and I went for my first group, right? And so I’m fresh off the death of my mother, right? So a lot of you who might be listening are fresh off the death of a loved one or a person that you’ve lost. So I sat there and I was nervous. You know, I mean, I was a former actor and such, but I was like, this is the real deal. This is not acting, this is the real stuff here. And so she said, Hey, welcome, everybody. You know, this is our Tuesday night, you know, seven to nine lalalalala? If you’re new, if you don’t mind, can you just raise your hands? I was like, my hands, she says so we’re just gonna, you know, just gently I mean, her words wonderful. I mean, I’m an English major in communications major was in jelly go around the room, if you just if you’re open, just say your name, and maybe, you know, a sense of why you’re here. Right? I was like, Okay, so there’s about five or six of us that were brand new. And so I was in the back. And I just remember listing 12345 And they got to me, and I was in this trance, because I just say, like, all the feelings and emotions about my mother were coming up. And she said, you know, could you share your name? And I didn’t hear like, I didn’t even see her. And she said, Sir, could you mine? Are you okay with sharing your name? And I was like, Oh, I’m so sorry. I said, Yeah. I said, my name is Brian Scarfo. She said, Are you open to sharing with us why you’re here. And I took this moment. And I just went through the entire two and a half years of caring for my mother. And I said to her, I said, you know, I’m here to do on a full time basis. What I’ve only done part time and that’s finally take care of me. And just tears streamed down my face. And I remember she came over and she put her hands directly on my shoulders and he said that’s why we’re all here. We are here to finally have the opportunity to take care of ours. selves, and what this journey is about and to give permission to feel to give permission to look at the loss that you just went through. And so I think my advice to you is just to give you permission to go on this journey, to give you permission to take care of yourself full time, to give you permission to be able to seek out those resources and say to the people that are pulling you in different ways, no, no, mommy’s viewing, mommy, Daddy’s gonna go to the scoop. This is something I have to do. And give yourself permission to take care of yourself, and do for yourself, what you did so wonderfully. For the person that you cared for?

Victoria Volk 1:00:47
Well, and in the process, especially if you’re a parent and have children, you’re setting an example of how important that is,

Brent Scarpo 1:00:53
Right? All modeling the behavior.

Victoria Volk 1:00:57
What has what has your grief taught you?

Brent Scarpo 1:01:00
Well, it’s funny, because I was vacillating between two words of wisdom, here’s what I’ll share with you. What it’s taught me is, because halfway through the process, this is the private number two bits of wisdom, she said, and it’s just so true. And somebody was having a particularly difficult time. And she said, look, she said, this is hard work. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna mess around, she said, but I am going to make your promise. She said, Because I know a lot of you’re feeling like you’re just this train going through this dark tunnel, you know, that has no light. And that just keeps going and going and going and going. And you come week after week, after week, after week, feeling pain, after pain, after pain, but she said, Here’s my promise to you. If you continue to do the work to get on the train, to go through the dark tunnel to feel the pain, I promise you, at some point in time, you will see the light. And then the light are the gifts. And those gifts are being sent by the person that you’re grieving over. And you’re going to open up those gifts, and it’s going to be pure joy. And it took about two years. But all of a sudden the train came out. And I saw the light. And I saw the gifts, and I opened them up. And I felt the joy.

Victoria Volk 1:02:23
I’m going to ask you a question. Just intuitively, I want to know the answer. But I think it would be helpful to others listening. If I would have known you then and even a year and a half a year into their group you’re going to and I’m not bashing group supports systems or group programs. And by any means I think you found support in it, it helped you. I’m not saying that. They’re They’re wonderful for people. But if I would have said to you do you want to work one on one with me and I can help you in eight, eight sessions. What you’ve worked through an eight year in two years, would you believe me?

Brent Scarpo 1:03:09
Well, I actually did it. So when hospice came, they said look, you we they give us all these kinds of resources. So there’s this group, and then there was one on one. And I here’s what I knew. Here’s what I did. So I was a casting director at the time I was casting Shawshank Redemption, Air Force One, the last movie I cast it for my mother passed away was Matilda. Right? I had 3000 children and worked with funniest guy named Danny DeVito. So during then, this is what I did. During the two and a half years that I was my mother’s primary caregiver, I opened up a separate bank account. And I put enough money away for every month that I was her caregiver and that she had cancer so that I could take that much time off.

Victoria Volk 1:03:54
I know another great tip,

Brent Scarpo 1:03:55
Another tip. Another tip, but I remember just saying you know what, because I thought if this should go wrong, I’m gonna have to be able to deal with some stuff. And I don’t know if I really want to go to work and pretend to cast children and materials commercial and be happy about it. So I had two and a half months of salary. And I took a year and I didn’t work at all. I took it when I say took care of myself full time I wasn’t playing, but I planned it. That’s why I’m telling people this is the biggest tip is you got to plan for this ahead of time. The red balloon was done years and years before she you know, I had the dream that she had cancer. I mean, all this can be planned and you can get the joy out of that. And so I did the group. We met once a while I did two I did twice, and then I was so impressed with her. I went to her once once a week right now. I went there once a week for about a year. Now if you say to me You know, in eight weeks if you meet with me, I guess it depends on what you’re saying to me and eight weeks you work with me your grief will be over I,

Victoria Volk 1:05:09
Yeah, I probably went over your grief won’t be okay. Okay. It’s just that every emotional thing that’s keeping you bogged down and keeping you stuck and keeping you from living your fullest potential because you’re, you’re emotionally incomplete in some way. That would be resolved.

Brent Scarpo 1:05:25
Yeah I would say. I mean, look, I have a four month life coaching program. And I specifically did four months, because, you know, I worked with a lot of people with addiction such and those these 90 Day and 3d programs, you know, scientifically, we’ve discovered that they don’t work, right, it takes at least 90 plus days to change a behavior. It just does. I mean, all the research is out there, whether it’s an emotional, psychological, physical, but whatever the case may be. So you’re looking at two months, I knowing back then maybe I would have said, Yeah, let’s go ahead and do this. But I would have gone on probably a while because I made that plan. But I’m of the proponent that, you know, if you’re going to do something one on one, just because of all the research I’ve read, you want to do it for at least excuse me four months. That’s why do my program is 21 sessions, right? 21 sessions, and I guarantee you’ll be transformed in some shape or form. I’ve got all the testimonials on my website, which is Brent scarfo.com. And because it just takes that much time to get you know, it’s like the onion, you know, you peel back the onion, there’s always layers and layers and layers and layers. So I hope that answers your question.

Victoria Volk 1:06:35
No, I personally was just curious what your answer would be. Because I find though, in because Grief Recovery, the Grief Recovery method is evidence based, right, Kent University did a study. And what I’m finding is that it can be really difficult for people to believe that it’s possible even that you can’t, you know, I mean, that you can’t even get to. So like someone who’s going through grief, like going to a support group, where there isn’t necessarily action, like you’re not taking action. And I some, and I think too, it depends on the facilitator. But if you because I’ve heard many people say to me about the group group group sometimes is that you almost feel worse when you leave, because it’s such a heavy

Brent Scarpo 1:07:26
Look. I agree with you. I think I’ll give you an example. In fact, I may, I may carry you with me, because I’m gonna go let the let the dog in, is, you’ve got to figure out what device works best for you. Right? It’s it is I’m working with a client whose mother committed suicide. Right? And so it’ll be a year two years ago, yesterday. And, you know, I said, you know, what are you doing to deal with your grief? Right? And so, she’s like, Well, I started this group, but I don’t know if I really want to go to therapy. I was like, Okay, gotcha, right. Well, I know him well enough, because I’ve worked with him three times. So if he does for him, if he does therapy, he knows he’s gonna have to get to it. He’s not ready. He’s not ready. Let me just sit in the back here, you know, that he’s also a man. Right? But he’s sensitive enough to where he’s open. Because, you know, men grieve differently. They like, you know, they’re, they lose their child. And two weeks later, they’re back at work. And the wife is like, what are you doing? Right? Because women grieve with expression and emotion and feeling and men keep it inside, they have to be busy and doing things so that they can process what is that they’re feeling? So I think you bring up a really good point, not only choose not to do it yourself, but choose the venue and the way that works best for you. Right, maybe it’s therapy one on one, and that’s it, maybe it’s great. It’s group because you like being around people and such. Maybe it’s a combination of the two. There’s probably modalities out there that I’m not even familiar with. I know. Well, no, I mean, I know. I know, people that have had Reiki they’ve had the, you know, the energy they’ve had, you know, I knew one woman who she really didn’t do therapy, per se, but once a week, she did something for herself. So I got a massage, I got a facial, I you know, I just did something to make me feel better, you know, because the other six days she was grieving, you know, so that was that self care that she was able to do for herself, rather than find herself plummeted in the depths of, you know, grief so low that she couldn’t get out of it. So yeah, I think, well, here’s a great example. So my client goes to group, right. And I said, How’s that gone? He said, Because I don’t I don’t know. You know, and he’s, you know, this is this is something brand new to him because he’s an only child. I said, What are you? Are you getting something out of? He said, Yeah, I said, But it’s just I just feel like I’m unique. So what’d he mean? He said, Well, other people, you know, they’ve lost a child or you know, the grandmother died or their grandfather died or the husband died or whatever. It’s like, my mom died. She killed herself. Right? I said, that’s all you gotta say. So then I Googled, and I found a group that is specific. Everybody, their, their, their lost, loved one had committed suicide. So he went to that. And he said, That’s a world of difference. Just a world of difference. He said, thank you.

Victoria Volk 1:10:33
Yeah, and I think there can be dangers in that too, though, because we can, we can definitely learn from all people, people that have experienced all types of losses. And I think that’s kind of what we do, too. It’s even if, you know, depending on what your loss is, you might say, Well, why am I feeling so bad? They lost their child or, you know, and so we naturally can do things like that to that. That’s where, again, I think it depends on the group and the facilitator.

Brent Scarpo 1:11:01
Absolutely Exactly. Right. I think I was lucky. I mean, when this one was, I mean, she was, I wouldn’t say world renowned, but she was state right now. Like she was it, you know, and so, to your point, I think you’re right is like, I mean, he went to the one group and didn’t like it. So I was like, Well, don’t stay here. But I’m trying to, I don’t know, if you if this is not working for you, we just there is a path, we just have to figure out which one it is for you. Because not all things work for all people. We just had to figure out what it was. And then through my work with him, we were able to find it. And you know, he did that for the first year. And then he was fine. He’s like, you know, I’ve done it. I’m doing this. And, you know, I’m working now with him for because I kind of worked with him at the tail end of that. And I’m working with him for another year. So I’m doing something much different, you know, because now we’re in year two, we’re this is second year yesterday. So one of the things I said to him, was gonna do with all my clients, no matter if they’re going through grief or not. And I said, Okay, he said, I want you to attend this class. And so I said of the class, he said, really? I said, Yeah, I said, just just go to it and see what happens. Well, I think the greatest class any human being can take for all things is an improv class. I’ve taken dozens and dozens and dozens. You wanted to learn how to do sales, take an improv class, you want to learn how to ask out a woman or a man on a date, take an improv class, if you want to get a better your communication skills, take an improv class. So he said, I don’t know. And I said, No, it just, it’s free. Just go check in on it. So he went, and they Brian, do they bring you up on stage? And I said, just text me when you’re done? Well, it was done. I didn’t get a text. So I text him to get nothing back. Then finally, like, two hours later, he texts me said I stayed for the two classes afterwards. I said, Oh, I said, Okay. And then we talked the next day. And I said, What do you think he said, You know what, thank you for sending that to me. He said, My biggest challenge is I don’t think I’m allowed to laugh without my mom. He said, and all of a sudden, I found myself laughing. You know, and I almost felt guilty about it. But then I was like, maybe this is okay. Well, that was my mindset from the very beginning that my wife sent him, you know, but I think couldn’t tell him that. So now he signed up for the class and the course and, you know, making those transitions as far as you know, the various, you know, for lack of better word stages that he’s in when it comes to grief insights, because, you know, how do we learn to laugh without the person we used to laugh with? Well, it takes practice. You gotta have the right you know, so that’s not a grief group. That’s not therapy. Right. That’s an improv class. And I’m all about it.

Victoria Volk 1:13:36
That’s another great tip.

Brent Scarpo 1:13:38
Oh yeah absolutely. Everybody’s taking an improv class. Everybody, everybody, I took him when I was an acting school. And then about three years ago, I decided to take him again, for some odd reason. I went to like some really, we got some famous ones in Hollywood. But it was funny because I went, I said, you know, I’ve been to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. I graduate for two years. He said, I probably will start like level five or level six. He’s like, Yeah, you’re starting all over? I am. He said, Yeah. It doesn’t matter where your past experiences. Are. We starting at the beginning, I was like, Okay, sir. So it was fine. I totally got it, you know, because the idea is to build this cohesion of a group of people that have the ability to speak and listen, listening being the most important part.

Victoria Volk 1:14:18
Exactly. And I just want to circle back to what we’ve been talking about with groups and programs and things like that. And I think that’s the most important thing to take away from this conversation is that to meet yourself, where you’re at, and what you’re ready for, and I think when you’re ready to hear it, you’ll be open to it, whatever it is,

Brent Scarpo 1:14:37
Yeah, there’s a lot of weight to what you just share. But there’s also then those people who, you know, maybe they’re by themselves or they’re isolated and such and so they just for some reason, the people places and things are in their lives to kind of nudge them along to the possibility that that’s the group that I worry about, you know, that may not have that support group or don’t have the ability to reach out or can’t ask for help those The ones I’m really concerned about the most. I mean, that’s the beauty of, you know, grief groups and grief therapy back in 1997 when my mother died, and now, you know, you can do this on Zoom, you know, with COVID. I mean, you know, when COVID happened, he was saying, is that no, we, we couldn’t get together, we had to do it on Zoom. And that was sort of his transition of not doing it anymore, because it just wasn’t the same. Right? It just was not the same. And a lot of people that, you know, especially people who suffer from addiction and are going through that COVID was, it’s been very difficult, because you and I are talking, we’re having a great time and such, but I still can’t hug you, you know, and having that one on one. So yeah, I, if you can, if you can get to the place of knowing that you need some help. And then you can get to the place of research in which we’re able to do in the confines of our home, which is great. We got this thing called computer, but then take the action step that I’m talking about, you know, to do the zoom or make the call or have whatever it is, that’s the most important piece, because that piece is what then tells you where am I in the process? What you know, versus I’m not going to do anything at all.

Victoria Volk 1:16:08
Yeah, and I think you’ll discover what you’re ready for in the process of taking action, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So what gives you the most hope, and joy for the future?

Brent Scarpo 1:16:20
What gives you the most hope and joy for the future? So it’s more of the word hope than anything else. So for example, this last year really, I’ve merged my life experiences in the entertainment industry with my life experience as a life coach. So you know, one of the greatest films out there is, you know, the Shawshank Redemption, I was one of the assistant casting directors when the best four months of my entire life. I’ve seen the movie over 1000 times. And so, you know, I realized there’s just so many great lessons from that film. And it’s the reason why it’s one of the top 10 films out there. And so, you know, I went through the whole film, and I came up with the 10 top lessons that one can learn from the Shawshank Redemption when it comes to life. So, you know, let’s go through a few of those. And because to answer your question, I remember when we had the 10th anniversary, and Frank had sent us a brand new poster. So I put it up next to the old poster that I’ve had for years, but I never really looked at it. And so I will tell you why. Shawshank Redemption is one of the top films that everybody to this day still loves is because of the caption of the poster. And this answers your question, the caption of the poster in the film was this fear will keep you prisoner hope will set you free. Fear will keep you prisoner hope will set you free. And so for me, it’s not what is it that I think is going to happen when it comes to what is it that I hoped for. But for me, it is the essence of hope. I think that’s why we’re having the difficulties that we’ve been having for the last 567 years. Right? If we’ve we’ve lost the ability to believe that there’s this thing called hope. And so when you lose that ability to believe in this thing called Hope, and what happens is fear takes over. Fear will keep you prisoner hope will set you free. I spoke at this one university one time and I didn’t know what the question was. But I remember responding saying, Well, the truth will set you free. Right. And I had this aha moment. And whatever the question was, you know, that was one of the answers is the truth will set you free. I said, But and let’s bring it back to the grieving process. Do you know who her cousin is? Right? I’m just saying this. This is like the Intuit I like I don’t know what’s about to come out of my mouth. And they all kind of looked at me. I said, the truth will set you free. But her cousin is the truth hurts. And typically the truth has to hurt in order for it to set you free. The grieving process, we’ve got to go through the dark tunnel on the prayer and the pain in order to receive the light and the gifts. Right. And so for me, it’s the the entity in the essence of hope to know that hope is always a possibility to know the hope is something that you can wrap your arms around to know the hope is always an option. And that you don’t have to live in fear. And you don’t have to bestow fear on other people. And you don’t have to generate fear, which I think we’ve been doing so much in the last five to seven years. Right that people have made their mantra about fear than their mantra about hope. So it’s not what I hope for. It’s that there is hope.

Victoria Volk 1:19:42
That’s a big part of this podcast is to show people that no matter what you know who you are in life, what you’re, you know, people of all walks of life have been on this podcast and the one thing that they every guest has understood didn’t want to at some point in their life was that hope? Like hope tomorrow could there is hope that tomorrow could be better, will be better, can be better.

Brent Scarpo 1:20:10
They all the above, right? It’s absolutely it’s it’s and we’ve lost that. And a lot of ways I think COVID exacerbated the situation. You know, especially when we want to be in sole control of our lives, right. And then something comes into our lives that you completely lose control. Right? That’s when you that’s when that concept of faith has been tested when your faith in hope is being tested. And if you lose that faith and hope, well, then you automatically go to fear again. Fear can hold you prisoner hope can set you free, one of the other. It’s a great scene in the movie. Right? And again, to your point I can because I remember sitting there watching the scene happen when Andy de France character, you know, is having a difficult time being in prison for all those years for something he did not do. Right. I didn’t sign up to lose my mother. This was not a group I volunteered for. It happened. Right? It happened. I’m part of a group that I did not volunteer for. I didn’t want to be a member. And I did not pay dues. But here I am. Right. And so his friend read, you know, starts to worry about him. And I remember just seeing, you know, the character attorney. So well, I guess it comes down to two things you could get busy living or get busy dying? Well, exactly. Right. I mean, when COVID happened, you know, two years ago, and I have a lot of clients, I look I freaked out on human just as much as everybody else. And then my clients were coming to me, my one client, she lost all three of her jobs in 72 hours that are all related to the restaurant business, three jobs in 72 hours gone. And I said, Well, you got two choices, right? And I said, you can either do the time, or the time can do you pick one. I did 168 projects on my place. And that two years, right, because my whole life like everybody else was just, you know, decimated on some levels. So you either get busy living or get busy dying, you know, you either get busy dying and live in the fear or you get busy and living and relish in the hope.

Victoria Volk 1:22:25
Yeah, and I think you turn on the news. That’s probably one of people’s biggest mistakes is turning on the news. First three minutes is nothing positive.

Brent Scarpo 1:22:35
And then another six hours of nothing positive. Yeah.

Victoria Volk 1:22:38
Right. One thing to chip away at your hope, just keep the news on,

Brent Scarpo 1:22:42
Right. It’s difficult. I know, I hadn’t watched the news for years. I’m not, I really haven’t. And then there was a certain time four or five years ago that I just I almost felt like I had to because there was so much change happening in such a high rate that I want to kind of be abreast of kind of what was going on. But I you know, I saw how it changed me but I also had to really modify how much I look at it now I’m back to not watching it. Because we can get it from so many other places and such but yeah, it’s um, you know, I always tell my clients, you create your own reality. Right? You create your own reality however, that reality exists for you and whatever choices and action steps you take is his what that reality is about. You know, one of the concepts of the the 10 Shawshank lessons is the opportunities can be seen everywhere. You just have to look and you have to listen, right? I mean, if you look at that movie, now, here’s a prisoner and he wants to build a library and the prison in 1947. The words like you can’t do that. It’s the wall write a letter to the state for the funding if you don’t have it. Right, he writes a letter for how many years? And then finally, they sent him a check saying please stop writing. Right? That goes back to for me, number three, you’ve got to be relentless, and you got to be tenacious in your life. Right took him 20 years to escape Shawshank Redemption with a tiny rock hammer. Right? He wrote one letter a week for years to get the books in the library. So we need to stay on course, find that support system, especially when we go through the grieving process because you’re going to have those peaks and valleys. This is why the two words exist in the English language. So when you find yourself down the valley, you have that support system that can help you and take you by the hand and get you back up on the on the hill or the mountain. I’ve only told this once in my life, this is interesting, but I’m looking at number nine, and that’s practice random acts of kindness. So for me, you know, my mother was having cancer and I just had to do something like I’d love random acts of kindness and but I was insanely busy. I mean, I was 24/7 with her. I was casting films. You know, we had ups and downs depending on what was going on in the process of her cancer. are. And for some reason, I’ve only said this twice, I decided that once a week, I would send money anonymously to a person that I found in the phonebook. Because my mailbox was down the street. And I picked up my mail there. And this is when you had, you know, you actually had phones that you put quarters in the US, you know, and I just, I remember, oh, no, it was inside, it was inside the post office site to look up an address. And I just had all these names of all these people. And I so I created this letter saying, You don’t know who I am synopsize And you don’t know who I am. You know, but, you know, I’m currently you know, assisting my mother with cancer. You know, we’re very hopeful. Again, I know that was in there. You know, I know this is not much, but I hope this brings a little sense of hope to your life. And I put it in $5 each time. And I did that once a week for the entire time she had cancer. And that was that was just a tool that I use for me. It helped me be hopeful. I was practicing a random act of kindness. It was something that I could do that was outside of being her primary caregiver. But you know, that’s just what I did.

Victoria Volk 1:26:06
Yeah, another tip. Yeah. Exactly. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Brent Scarpo 1:26:14
You know, I would just say, you know, thank you for all that you do. Again, if you want an intuitive reading, it’s completely complimentary. I guarantee you that you have tools that you can take away from it about 45 minutes to an hour, just text me at 760-835-3327 voices. My website is Brent scarfo.com Bre N T, SCA rpo.com. You know, the book, the red balloons coming out Mother’s Day, I’m so excited about this. I’ve been working on this for 10 years, it is going to be a life coaching book. It’s about the relationship between my mother and I, it talks about how we prove that there in fact, was life after death. And if you’re interested in seeing the Today Show episode, you just have to go to YouTube and put in print Scarfo, the Today Show?

Victoria Volk 1:27:00
Well, I’ll put all of that in the show notes as well.

Brent Scarpo 1:27:04
Well, thank you so much for everything. This was wonderful. I really appreciate you and all that you do. And I know it’s really hard work doing this because I’ve been asked to do it. And I was like no, I feel like I just I know how much is involved. Maybe one day down the road because I think it would be something fun to do. But I You know, I’ve been on several and you’re you’re great at what you do. And I just want to thank you for what it is that you do for, for me and for us and for all those that are going through the grieving process.

Victoria Volk 1:27:30
Thank you and thank you for sharing absolutely all that you’ve shared. And remember, when you unleash your hearts, you unleash your life. Much love from my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.

Ep 65 | Sirry Berndsen

Sirry Berndsen | The Spirit World Walks Among Us

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

There are psychics and then there are psychic mediums. Do you know the difference?

Sirry shares the difference between the two in this week’s episode. And, there’s so much more that we cover in this conversation including:

  • Her grief growing up, things she’s experienced as an adult, and what her grief is today.
  • What her thoughts are on the afterlife.
  • Her thoughts on religion and mysticism of life as it relates to mediumship.
  • Cultural differences in self-care when it comes to grief.
  • What happens to people who do bad things after they die?
  • Her experience being a Certified Medium and a Certified Grief Recovery Specialist
  • Tips for those who are in preparation for a loved one dying.
  • Tips for those who are grieving the loss of a loved one.
  • Learn how to connect with the spirit of deceased loved ones.

So much goodness packed into this episode! Listen with an open mind and open heart, and see what comes up for you. See if you can feel the spirit within you stirring your heart to learn more. And, if you feel called to have your mind blown, I can’t recommend a session with Sirry enough! She’s highly professional and has a heart full of love and light.

RESOURCES:

CONNECT:

Victoria Volk  00:08
This is Victoria of the unleashedheart.com, and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30-plus-year griever in advanced grief recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate gravers and non gravers alike, spread hope and inspire compassion towards those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with the ears in this platform, Grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather. Let’s get started. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. I am super excited for today’s guest. Siri bernsen holds a BFA and MFA in Visual Arts and as a certified medium by the forever family foundation. She’s a grief recovery methods specialist and a master teacher. She’s also studied as suey, reiki, and received master life regression therapy training from the Weiss Institute. Thank you, thank you for blessing me with your presence. And I am just super excited to have you on as a guest today. I personally have had a session with you blew my mind. My very first one, too. And I just I’m so thrilled to have you here. So, thank you.

Sirry Berndsen  01:42
Well, thank you for inviting me. And thank you for being relentless.

Victoria Volk  01:45
I am relentless when I had I pestered to, to you know, send in the email sending the emails and yes, if I if there’s something I feel like would be a great service to my audience. And that just really, I’m just so curious to learn more. Yeah, like, it gets me excited. So, yes.

Sirry Berndsen  02:07
It’s enthusiasm, and we all love and enthusiasm and passion, and I think that more of us could use it.

Victoria Volk  02:13
Yes. So let’s talk about, let’s start there with your work. And really what brought you to do this work.

Sirry Berndsen  02:24
So what brought me to do this work? About 20 years ago, I went through a really quite a horrific experience where somebody was violated me. And it was a turning point in my life. Because before this, so I’m gonna start from the beginning, as a child, I just had sort of this childhood faith. I think I went to church, maybe two or three times I was not a church person, none of my family members were so not raised with any religion. But my grandmother had a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of religion in her and but that was it. And so in my childhoods, I was very much the child of nature, which is very common like for people in Iceland, we are very connected to nature. And we thrive on anything and everything that has to do with the blue sky and the like the earth and everything that is our religion, that is our faith. And so when I was 12 years old, I changed and the reason why I changed my whole sort of this childhood religion or this childhood faith, at the age of 12, I had been bullied because I read here and says, this is a podcast, people don’t see me, but I have red hair and blue eyes, very, very fair, and have been bullied for probably like two or three years in school. And it was just absolutely horrendous. And I was getting to a point of feeling extremely depressed. And I was the youngest child of most of my parents. And my brother was also redheads. And my sister too. As I don’t know, my mom and dad, I didn’t really pay attention to it as like, oh, it is what it is. But I remember that the like I was about 12 years old when I started praying to God and I said to God, please make a stop. And this was, this was like, every single day I’ll be praying to God make this bullying stop, and it wouldn’t stop and then it just said one day, okay, God, I made a deal. If it doesn’t stop, I will no longer believe in you and I will no longer pray to and so that that just it just came to a complete standstill. So at this point, I’m 12 years old. And then life just continues and I had this deep faith that when you die, you go on the ground or your primitive. And that’s it done was such a simple way of thinking. And I’ll be honest now today because of the work that I do. It is the extreme simplification of everything.

Sirry Berndsen  04:43
Then you get to the point of you don’t need to worry about the afterlife is like you die on you. That’s it. So then fast forward, and then I moved to America and I had this horrible experience and I was going through a really really rough time and then something in my heart said Oh, look for Have some sort of a spiritual gathering. And a friend of mine had gone to see a psychic medium some years prior and she was off the motorway but and I remember myself think like, Oh, this is BS. And I actually changed the subject and I said to her like, oh, when would you like to go skiing next time. And so and I remember this so vividly because I just thought it was like she was Cuckoo. And so so after that horrible experience, I was, my heart was or spirit I should say, spirit was nudging me to go and seek something else. And I went to spiritualist church. And this isn’t a matter of moments of like within minutes, but my whole life changed. So in the spiritualist church, there was a young lady she is now my friend, Jacqueline, she was the medium of the day, close to main age and, and she was giving a message to a woman who was most likely Thai or Filipino because I was sitting all the way in the back of the church. And, and I could only see the back of her head on sort of a little bit of a cheek. And then Jackie says, Well, I have your mother here. And she gave a really good description of the mother and how she passed and all those things. And then Jackie said this, she said something in a different language. As he said to the lady, she said, I’m hearing this thing, and I have no idea what it means I have no idea. Like, I just hear this sound I need to give this to you. And so she gave it to the young lady in the congregation. And the young lady says oh my god, that’s my mother’s saying I love you in her own native language. That transformed my life in a in a second. And because I every one of the chairs that day, it was like 80 people there. And everyone just gasped. And there are other mediums. There were other people that were there that day, though, also were young mediums, and they remember this moment so vividly. Now Jackie did not go to college, she did not study Thai or Filipino, she says like really down to earth. And so when she said this in a different language in an Asian language that no one else in the church understood except the young lady. That was it for me. And I said to myself, well, if I was to try to do this work, I would like to be as good as Jackie. And so the Reverend in the church that day, she said, Well, we’re going to start classes in the fall, if you’d like to attend those classes, come and see me. I was unemployed, I had just graduated with my MFA, you know, who’s going to hire somebody with an art degree. And so I started attending these classes, and everything happened just really quickly. So what I thought was always my imagination. I just thought it was my imagination. When I was talking to the class, or when I was talking to nothingness, I just thought it was like makeup stuff. But it wasn’t. And so in these classes, within weeks, I just excelled. Because as time progressed, I was able to decipher what was my imagination, and then what was coming through from spirits. And I think that I would have to say that I studied also I studied journalism, and I knew how to interview so I knew how to do these interviews with people. And I knew how to be on the radio on all of those things. And so when I got to the point of with my art background, there was this great imagination. And then with my skills of interviewing, I found myself having the ability to interview spirits. And I would sit with them, and I would just ask them questions, who are you and I would break everything down to male female and then I would break it down into a family or friend and then I was a family that would break down to are you like the age and what relationship and our math everything out in my mind or it was almost like a 3d thing. And like how we have the tablets for the iPad today. And I was able to map everything out in my mind, okay, is the dad coming through and then it could feel like if he had other siblings if there were other siblings in the spirit world, I’m so in line things up like this farewelled was always behind me on the living people in front of me. So, it just started this whole journey of talking to spirits, it was communication with spirit on. And now so this was in the beginning years. And now I actually teach this and I teach the method that I use back in the day. But now it just seems to flow because I had this 100% trust that when I am connected and this is usually with the person that comes to see me, they know that I’m connected. If I’m not connected, then it’s just it is what it is. And I apologize, but I would say 80 90% of the time I am connected, and my hope is always that at least 90% is understood or people can connect to it if I’m not hitting the mark on a at 90% I don’t do a session that day. But because sometimes some things are left to interpretation or get into debate about like whether somebody something was teal, or sort of is bluish green tone, and I won’t do that anyway. So um, so yeah, so now I know that there’s an afterlife I know not even with a 99 it’s not even 99.99 I know that with 100% no doubt in my mind that there’s an afterlife Absolutely. And I think that it sort of gives us it’s an interesting idea because knowing that there’s an afterlife and you think just like well what happens on the other side? What happens in the afterlife? Where is the absolute there’s so many questions that come up. But then what I think is more important is that how are we living our lives here today, connecting to other people? Are we living our best lives? And are we living our kindness lives? Because when we pass away we have this review. And, and the question is, then could we have done something better?

Sirry Berndsen  10:41
And that’s the thing that I want to always sort of how I live my life and like I always make sure that I’m doing the best that I can. I’m a living my kindness life. Do I have compassion from a neighbor even when I find myself being a little bit annoyed with someone, I do a self reflection what is it that is in me that is causing this annoyance it’s an everyday thing because the other thing also like I live in silence, I love not listening to I like I never watched TV, if I do have a little bit of TV watching us like a movie or something, or TV show The lifts my spirits, I never watched my loves on TV, I just don’t see the point in it, watching the news don’t see the point in it. And it’s really about keeping my spirit light, with a capital L. and uplifted and, and even with when it comes to the music. If I listen to music, it usually is some sort of a curtain soft music in the music. Like, if I’m getting ready for a session, I may listen to meditative music. But otherwise, I’m in silence because I love a lot to be present in my own thoughts.

Victoria Volk  11:45
I love that. Thank you for sharing your progression and how you got into the work. And I’m curious as a child, did you recognize that you had kind of this?

Sirry Berndsen  11:58
Yes, so looking back, absolutely. When I was a child, so when I was growing up, we lived in a kind of a small apartments. The fire was in like two bedrooms. And it was really cramped. And so, we only had one bathroom. And I remember myself was a childhood. So, I’m really young at this time, probably from the age of like two up to like 678, I would go into the bathroom and I would lock the door. And I will just sit there on the bathroom floor. And I will talk to my imaginary friends. And I’ve heard later on that is very, very common with a lot of mediums. They talk to their Imaginary Friends; I would have full conversation with them for an hour or even longer until like somebody would start knocking on the door. He was just childhood conversations. But it was like full blown conversations. I remember as a kid I had like, there were two children. Oh, come and play with me. It was a boy and a girl.

Victoria Volk  12:51
Do you feel like most children the innocence of children? Do you feel like most children do because of their innocence of this gift? kind of you know of?

Sirry Berndsen  13:03
Yes. So, this is this is an I think a lot of people say the same people that are worked in my field, we can tell when a child is really connected. And I will say we are all psychic; we are born with a psychic gift. And if people are questioning there’s people that may be religious, you may want to look into Corinthian letters one through 14. It says there that people are born with gifts, that we’re all born with gifts. And so, then the question is what is the gift and children? They’re so receptive, they’re so innocent. And I would say about options up until the age of like maybe seven or eight when they start going to first or second grade when other kids may start making fun of them. The childhood innocence but also there’s this purity with the children that they don’t question like, they don’t question the silliness of things such as like, Oh, yeah, this is what it is. And I also think a lot of times infants are very, very young babies like when they’re just like not naturally verbal yet, when they’re like pointing into thin air. They have. So it’s really interesting that the infant’s retina, the eyes, they develop at a later stage. And I heard an interview on NPR about this. And I thought it was fascinating. So, they have a different sights up until a certain point in the lives and because I’m not a scientist, I don’t know until one disease, but they see spirits, they see them. And I think that every parent, they should allow them to just see them and be normal around it. When they sound like going bah bah bah and like pointing into thin air, pay attention to it, engage in a conversation. Oftentimes also children, they will speak to photographs, you know, and they will like babble. And they will say things, and nobody understands nicely what they’re saying. But they’ll have bah bah, bah, bah, photographs. So, Mike’s measures that use the children, they’re talking to someone because there’s so receptive.

Victoria Volk  14:56
Was that something that you hid then? I mean if you went to the bathroom to lock the door. And you know, it’s it’s something you felt like you couldn’t share?

 

Sirry Berndsen  15:06

Yes, because I was the youngest. And so, I was the youngest of my siblings, and let’s just put it this way, then they needed a punching bag. You know how that goes like when, because my brother at the time he was, he’s not much older than I he was a teenager. And then my sister is a year and a half older than I am. But it’s sort of like a yes, I hit the I hit it from them just to have peace and quiet around it so that they wouldn’t call me insane or crazy. I mean, they already did. You’re crazy. I just didn’t want to have that in my head all the time. So yes, I get it.

Victoria Volk  15:39
And the youngest too, so I get you.

Sirry Berndsen  15:42
Oh, you can get it, okay, you get is like, make them stop doing that. Make them stop poking me make them stop, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.

Victoria Volk  15:50
So, in the work that you do, you know, because people and you’re a grief recovery specialist. And so, I am too. And so, you bring a different aspect to your work, I think because of that. And so, in the in sessions with people, I’m just curious, is there one session that really stands out to you?

Sirry Berndsen  16:13
I’m not sure if there’s one session. I mean, there’s several sessions that stand out for me for different reasons. But I can say this. Before I did the grief recovery method, I was able to pinpoint pretty precisely things, events in people’s lives, that were in some ways, traumatizing, that caused grief that caused pain. But after I did the grief recovery methods, training, I was able to line things up in more in more of a clear fashion, if I can say that. And and you know how I would do the grief chart? The What is it called? The loss? Yes. Grant? The Yes, the loss graph. Yes. So now that that has been sort of embedded into my mind from the training, is, you know, the spirits, they just bring it up in my mind. And like yesterday, I did a session yesterday that I was able to use that their last chart really precisely, you know, so like, her parents divorced when she was about, like, everything started going downhill when her parents were like, when she was eight- or nine-years old things that are going downhill. And then they divorced when she was about 1112 years old. And then I was able to in my mind using the loss last year, I knew that when she was 14, her mom passed away so I’m able to line things up more more precisely than I used to. And so my I think that my personal grief is obviously I’ve gone through my own grief as a child, we all do. We all go through grief, we open our eyes to the world. I was like, okay, there’s grief. But I think because of the work that I that I’ve done in the past 20 years, I’m able to process things a little bit differently. And to share with you just really briefly, for instance, both my parents passed away, and I had a very complicated religion with my dad. And so when we, when I did the training, I did the last chart on my dad, of course, and I wrote the letter to my dad. And then when my mom passed away was interesting, my siblings, they thought it would be the one like lutens really kind of like sort of having a hard time with it. But I knew I wouldn’t. And the reason is because because of the work that I’ve done and because of the reef recovery, I knew how to treat myself really well. And when my mom passed away, I actually took two weeks off from work and when it came to her birthday, I took the day off from work but I took probably good six five to six weeks to Greece in the kindest most gentle way possible. Of course I saw and you know after she passed away a shard but it was interesting I would see her appear so what happened after a passage I was staying in her home and I actually ended up going into her bedroom and I slept in her bed and I’ll see her appear in the door you know I’m just talking to me and that was really comforting but at the same time it was really hard like heart wrenching but I kind of knew because of the work that I do that okay, I can always talk to her and um, she was just like walking around the home and I was like and then I would hear her say to miss you know, let’s see, call my name Siri. Now Siri and sort of in a very loving and daring way, or she would call me honey Siri, just to try to get my attention that I would just spend time with her. This after our passing. So I after took time off from work, because I knew that that was grief that I wanted to really heal. I’m not going to my work in sort of all patterning in pieces it was important for me to put the pieces back together

Victoria Volk  20:07
I think that’s what so many people do is they just quickly try to they don’t take that time and a lot for many people I don’t want to minimize it that that isn’t that is a luxury to be able to have that time to be able to do that can be a feel like a luxury for people especially with kids and you know if you have all kinds of things in your life so go ahead.

Sirry Berndsen  20:30
You see, I think is a cultural thing also though, because I remember when my grandma passed away my my mother’s mother when she passed away my mom took some days off from work and I remember this vividly that she would spend time just grieving and it’s a cultural thing because in my culture you are given a chance to grieve I mean for instance we get for some occasion we get five maybe six weeks summer vacation depending on who you work for minimum five and for maternity leave you get six months minimum of up to a year. Wow Hey, we’re tight about maternity leave. And so the culture that I come from it’s it’s Iceland it’s a very Scandinavian culture you’re allowed to be human you’re allowed to be with your family and even like I know in Denmark and Sweden or Norway they really encourage you to spend time with family and I think that in one of the Scandinavian countries they gave you I think up to two years of maternity leave of full pay you know and that is something that absolutely blows Americans away and so I’m coming from that culture one of my mom because the way yes, it is a luxury that I was able to take time off work but I also live my life in such a way that I don’t spend a lot of money I am kind of simple in my lifestyle like I don’t spend money on silly things. I’m frugal. First of all I buy secondhand clothing and I’m proud of it you know and I recycle a lot and so when I take time off I know that I will not be making any money at the time but I’ve prepared for those days and then I just live really sparingly during the time off

Victoria Volk  22:12
And I love those tips and I think to like you said it’s it’s setting your life up for what you value

Sirry Berndsen  22:19
Yes

Victoria Volk  22:20
and if you are wondering what people value just look where they spend their money, right?

Sirry Berndsen  22:27
Oh absolutely I’m like I don’t need I’m not I do not need to measure up to anyone I don’t care what like my neighbors to if they get a new car if they get a new book I just don’t care about those things those material things I don’t care about but yes my value is in family and being in the space that I need to be in emotional well being it is and you know what it is it’s self love. It is self love and I had this I had this thinking I used to be a flight attendant for a short while and they would always say that you know put dogs and mask on yourself first before you put on your anyone else around you. Especially the children because they you know they will survive you just have to take care of yourself first and so these days when I when I can like a point my point of myself when I say me and myself and I but I say this as a loving way because with me being fully there. I can be there for you. It really comes down to that

Victoria Volk  23:25
and that’s what I hear a lot to like the remote that makes me think of how people say when I say I’m you know a grief recovery specialist I tend to have a grief podcast you know, it’s depressing that sounds depressing. It Oh, and don’t look at it that way. You know I grief is a teacher. It is such a wonderful teacher. For us. It highlights in all the ways that what it shows up for us. It highlights illuminates what needs healing. Yes. in all aspects of our lives. Every cause grief touches every aspect of our lives, our money, relationships, our relationship to ourself. How we show up in the world, everything.

Sirry Berndsen  24:13
Absolutely. And what you just said how we show up in the world. Grief touches everything. And I recently heard Rene brown Susan’s ecologist and she said, Unless pain is transformed, pain will always be transmitted. is so true. And we are responsible for ourselves and not anyone else. Yes, our children, their well being. But again, it goes back to this. We take care of ourselves and then we take care of our children. It always goes this way. Number one is you and your essence and then everything else will fall into place.

Victoria Volk  24:57
Absolutely 100% Can you speak a little Little bit to how in some religions that mediums psychics Well, first of all, you’re not are you a psychic, you’re a medium.

Sirry Berndsen  25:13
So everyone is born psychic. So that is the first given we’re all born psychic is the sixth sense, you know how like animals, all animals, they have the sixth sense. versus if there’s an earthquake, the animals, they know how to run to the higher areas or regions, like when there’s a tsunami, they knew how to run up to the mountains. And so this is the sixth sense, it is born, it’s, it’s we have it. So everyone is psychic, but there are those people that dive into it, and are those people that choose not to dive into it. And I think though the more people begin to study science, they leave the intuition behind, although Einstein was really quite spiritual, because he has says things like he said things about the sort of the mysteriousness of the universe, and all of those things that you have to sort of when you have a scientist that is able to be also spiritual, you’ve got a really nice combination. So my take on so when it comes to the psychic and mediumistic, there are some people that are born with them mediumistic ability, so what it is, is a frequency, it is not just a frequency, but it’s also a source of frequency, it’s a vibration. And I used to say it’s, it’s in your brain. And they’ve also now they’ve done studies on the god gene. And I’m beginning to believe that there’s no such thing as a god gene. Because if you’ve looked at it this way, who would ever surrender the life to live in a monastery for like, a whole entire life or back in the day was none raised. And you know how, like, there’s some people that will sit in meditation, and they will just really thrive in meditation. So there’s, there’s a thing I believe, as a god gene. And so when it comes to the mediumistic things, I have been teaching these now for many years. Even people that say that, Oh, I’m not getting it, I have this intuition about how to get them to the point of being able to say what they are perceiving in their mind, because when it comes to spirits, it is reception and perception, reception and perception. And so if we begin to open up either the hearing or the seeing and allowing us, like if we allow ourselves to really sort of fall into this path of feeling spirit around us, if we feel them, we can see them, we can hear them. And that is just sort of simply blending and merging with them so that you can process what they’re bringing to you. And I think that the more of us that can come closer to the connection to spirits, the kinder, more wonderful Earth on planet we will have. And so there are people that are born mediums, but everyone is born psychic. So there’s this difference in those two. So, every medium is a psychic, because we’re all born psychic, but not every psychic is a medium.

Victoria Volk  28:03
Gotcha. And I you know, I personally have recognized that well, and you can speak share your perspective of this, but I feel like grief really kind of shuts off the valve of our intuition in a lot of ways. It did for me anyway, like I was very closed up in like us so similar. I was I wouldn’t have called myself atheist, but I really blamed God for everything that happened in my life and was like, nope, ain’t gonna do you know, by not going to have it and I believe to like, you go on the ground and that you that’s what happens, you die and there was no feeling a connection at all. There was no I didn’t feel it. And it wasn’t until probably in my early 20s when I heard something that shifted everything for me and really sparked a curiosity back in my heart. And that led me down a different path and changed my life really, which led to later grief recovery, which opened the floodgates like grief recovery for me my personal work opened the floodgates I became a Reiki Master that like just like put the valve on overflow, you know, so I feel connection now. I feel something I never did before. So can you speak to that? So bit more to

Sirry Berndsen  29:40
Yeah, so when you were talking I was just thinking like prisoners. They say about every seven years we go through these cycles and those people that are really into into astrology that know about the seven year cycle, I think it has to do with I’m not an astrologer. If I remember correctly, though, I think it it has to do with Saturn return There’s a term that I like I understand the basics of it, but I don’t understand the full extent of it. So every seven years so most likely when you went through your epiphany probably was around the age of 21 give or take, right?

Victoria Volk  30:12
22, yeah?

Sirry Berndsen  30:13
Yeah, it’s the same thing you know, I mean my case I think I was about maybe, I think it was maybe 29 or so do you know like, it’s really close to the 28th year and so it’s like every seven years you go through these shifts and changes and so it’s a seven year cycle. And it’s like they also talk about if you go into the ocean, they talk about the seventh wave is the big wave. It’s really interesting and also if you do numerology and you look at the the essence of numbers the light the number seven is considered to be the most spiritual number four, if it’s a life number, like if you calculate your date of birth, you can see what you llife path is. Numbers are fascinating

Victoria Volk  30:58
They are, I’ve always been fascinated with numbers I was an as a kid, it’s interesting because as a kid I, I was into, like, I was the kid that got like the poem book from scholastic palm reading book and, and the astrology books. And, you know, so I was that kid, but I really wasn’t like, I really hid those interests. I didn’t share those interests with, with others, you know, but it’s interesting how life comes full circle doesn’t, isn’t it? Like, yeah, full circle, like I’m coming back to all that stuff. And, and my faith, though, and that’s what I would like you to speak to, too, because I am Catholic. And I’m a convert, actually. And for anyone who’s listening who did not know that, and so can you speak to maybe that piece?

Sirry Berndsen  31:49
So yeah, so this is interesting because I’m, I’m getting close to becoming a minister. I’m doing a training. Yes, I’m doing a training under Reverend john and havik. She’s up the journey within and becoming a spiritualists minister. Because I love to study I love to learn, like if there’s anything that I can study, I’ll take it on. I even applied for a Ph. D. program a few years ago, and I got accepted, but at the time, I didn’t really have the time or the money. So I decided not to do it. But so yes, when it comes to religion, I think that theology and religion is an interesting thing. It’s such an interesting, fascinating thing. And I think because from my perspective, because I’m so open to different religions, I have people come to my office or have zoom sessions with me that are of all faiths. Granted, I come from a Protestant Lutheran background was just going to navy and but at the same time, never practice any of it. But we’re also pagan, because we believe in the old gods, you know, the Odin and Thor and Tiede and all of those Freya and, and then I lived in Saudi Arabia, with with a Muslim prayers, and it was really divine. My roommates at the time, most of them are Catholic. They were Indian, but some of them also were Hindus. And then, surely while after that, I lived in Israel. And so I went from the Muslim culture to the very Jewish culture. Then I have my office in Boston, or in Brookline, Massachusetts is very Jewish, they call it little Israel. And I seem to be able to flow into almost any religion there is because I don’t judge. There’s like, whatever you’re raised with, that is what you raised with. But this has been my perception, many religions, they say to you that Oh, you should not be connecting with the dead. And my heart has always been questioning that. And I think it has to do with back in the day, especially I’m going to only speak about Catholicism from what I have perceived in the last 20 years, because a lot of the people in Massachusetts are Catholic, Irish Italian Catholics. And so been there in the Catholic Church. People back in the Middle Ages, they could not read. And so they started putting pictures into everything. And so and that everything was in latson, to keep people away from the mysticism of the faith. And so they would have the services and lots and and so it was really with Martin Luther, that the Protestants that he was translated into a language that they understood. And so when it comes to religion, if people have the ability to separate themselves from their childhood religions have the do’s and the don’ts or you should do this or you should not do that with very rigid ideas. If people have the ability to separate themselves from that, and then dive into the mysticism of life, or mysticism of that religion, then they really see a lot of doors. Open up. And and I think that not just religion but it’s also cultural practices, you know how like when we think about just for instance, if we think about Indonesia, most of Indonesia is Muslim. And but then when you go over to Bali, it is mostly Hindu. And they have a totally different way of living, but it’s just an island of Indonesia, it’s the same.

Sirry Berndsen  35:28
It’s the same governments, but the big island is Muslim, and the small island of Bali is Hindu. If I remember correctly, I think there were also some Buddhists that I can’t remember. But there are some faiths that keep it really simple. And they really preach about living in compassion, which is a Buddhism, Hinduism, they helped many, many different gods. And then there are those that question like, Well, why are you worshiping all these different statues? My thing is, let them do whatever they want to do, like whatever brings them joy. And I also do know that there’s a lot of people that sort of frown upon the Islamic religion. And people that also again, they have to separate the ancient religion of Islam. And they have to separate that from what later on became, what governments were trying to dictate to the women, for instance. And why is that? Because they would have the women cover up on all of those things, like I questioned everything. But I do think that it really comes down to this, that God, or goddess, whatever you want to believe in, did not create religion, religion is manmade. And for that reason, if you can remove the sort of the history or the, the rigidness, of religion, you set aside, and then you go into the aspects of prayer. And what is this essence of God? Now I also have this thing that I think that god or goddess, I don’t see, God has a gender, God has an essence lives within each and every one of you are God, I am God. And when we see the godliness within one another, we then are able to see the kindness in one another. And I do believe that we all have God within us. And I find it kind of interesting sometimes I get into this conversation about people that are obviously like race with race within a very strict religion. Doesn’t matter which religion is they they believe that’s how, and early on in my work as a medium. It was a kind of an interesting this. This says you asked earlier you asked if there was one session that stands out from another. There are so many that stand out like I had, I’ve done sessions with people that pass 911 or their witnesses. And I’ve done sessions where there was murder suicides. And I remember this is years ago, there was a there’s a woman, her name is Beth. And she had three girls, and she was dating a guy. And the religion was not going really well. And one of the oldest girls and she decided to go to Florida with some friends. So she had flown out of Boston. Meanwhile, Beth was at home with a two young girls and the dog and the boyfriend was upset and he comes to the house and he shoots the youngest girl in the hallway. And then it comes into the bedroom where Beth is with her middle daughter and he shoots the middle daughter and sister her lights out. And then she was the mom. Mind you. He also showed the dog. And then what he did, he walked on to train tracks and he committed suicide. So now we toiled over a murder suicide with one of the girls was away. Thank god the girl was away because that kind of like saved the lives of the two sisters. And so when she had London in Florida, she was trying to call she was trying to call mom, but mom didn’t pick up and so then she frantically started to call her dad, her mom and dad were separated. divorced. So she started calling dad and dad Okay, he’d go over to the house and he’ll check out check up on mom when he entered into the house where he saw that the youngest daughter was shot in the head in the hallway and the middle daughter was in her mother’s arm shot in the head to what is interesting is that the two girls survived. But mom passed away. And so there was a there was somebody that came in for a session with me and I brought everything through and then at one point they said well, so he committed suicide. Where is he? So this is what was a huge learning lesson for me. So I was connected to Beth the mom and I was able to see everything through her eyes. Like I saw the whole entire thing unfold and I saw everything through her eyes. I remember that I asked her like well where are you see since he He shot you all, and he killed you on the bog. Where is he? So when bad people commit crimes,

Sirry Berndsen  40:10
they go to heaven, but they go to what I call special ed. And so there’s no such thing as hell on people, they need to sort of wrap their heads around, there’s no such thing as hell. This is one place that we all go to, but we go to different levels, it’s like going to a classroom or go to a school. And those that have done amazing work kind work, compassion work, they go into the higher grades is sort of like going to ninth 10th 11th grade. So what happened with him, he was put in isolation. And so in my mind, I could see her, she was able to see him through sort of, in my mind, it looked as though she was looking through like a one sided glass, but he did not see her. And so he was there in isolation. And, and then he had these spiritual beings, sit with him, and teach him about the lessons. But he had done. And so there’s no time in this world. And this is something that a lot of people have a hard time grasping, there’s no time in the spirit world. Now, would he be there for a one year and like in the perception of the humans on earth plane? Or would he be the mugger nobody knows. But it’s very clear to me that he would be in this isolation, and he was, is kind of an infant learning how to walk again. So he’s shown how to learn the impact of what he had done. And his soul also had to really work through the atrocities that he had committed. And with the spiritual beings, and they were guides and angels that we’re trying to sort of bring the lessons to him. Now, there’s another aspect of this also, which is Michael Newton, Michael nooner, he was a psychology PhD in psychology. And he wrote a couple of books, and one of them is destiny, or souls. And it’s a great book, and I recommend it to everyone. And it’s one of these books that you kind of had to read it. And then if you don’t quite grasp it quite yet, you have to sort of go back to it and read it again. Or you can also get an audio book. So he talks about and also Brian Weiss talks about life between lives. And so for instance, we could then also perceive it this way that perhaps this guy, he was put into this base of life, he lives and we all come to this earth plane with lessons that we need to learn, and the soul, how we work through those lessons, it is up to the soul to grow. And some things are already decided upon before we come to Earth. Francis, before you came, Victoria, it was already decided that you would meet your husband, and you would have the kids to know like, there are specific things that are decided. But also there are things in our lives that come into our pads that depending on how we cope with it, how do we cope with it well, or do we not cope with it really well, that can really, sometimes interfere or veer off of the road a little bit. But for the most part, we have specific lessons we have to go through. So I’m going to share this one thing that I’ve been going through this last year, it’s been sort of in the background, quite a bit in the past few years. But this past year really, really pushed me as a medium and grief person a little bit over the edge. And this is what it is when young people in this in this climate in this day and age when young people in America growing up, they are faced with so many drugs. And it is absolutely devastating to see in this past year 2020 I saw more suicides and overdoses in my practice that in any previous year.

Sirry Berndsen  43:59
And it made me think I reflect on this. Why? And it comes down to this and what like my philosophy today it comes down to this. I do not think it is the parents fault. But I think it is the I don’t know if it’s the government’s fault, if it is the society how it is built up if it’s the school system. I’m not here to play like I’m not here to blame or point the finger but I think people need to be aware of what is going on. When does it start on where does it start? And so recently, a friend of mine, she said she’s got a couple of teenage girls, and she said to me that Oh yeah, like one of our daughters is on Prozac. And I thought to myself like was his only like 14 like, that’s really young, isn’t it? And she’s all well it’s considered to be normal like the, the nurse will call it call them up to the nurse’s office. I’m like okay, here’s your medication for the week or for the month. And I think it was like this is absolutely insane. But it started making sense to me. And so I’m even in America, I think it’s probably America is one of the most medicated countries on the planet. And where does it all starts? is Big Pharma? What does that lead into? Like if a child is overactive is a child is just really hyper that is immediate, like there’s a label on it, it has add, or it has ADHD. My thing is, Well, how about fixing the child’s diet? How about taking out all of the ingredients in the food that are not supposed to be there? If you cannot, like if you reading a label on a food product, and you cannot understand it, why are you feeling that way? Child child references, Pop Tarts? What’s in it? All these ingredients that are just nobody can pronounce toxins? What does the toxins do to the gut bacteria? We talked about children that like three or four or five years old, this is where it starts. And so the responsibility really goes down on that aspect, it goes down to the government, because the government says, Oh, yeah, you can put these things on the food, and that’s okay. And so the children becoming sick, the microbiome is becoming sick. And then they begin to develop these behaviors that are not considered to be rational. And then they roll up in a system that Oh, yeah, let’s suppress this symptom. And then if that doesn’t work, let’s try another one. Instead of instead of getting to the root cause of the issue, because the parent may be the most loving, caring parents, but they may not know what they’re putting the child’s bodies. And so as children are growing up, and then they like they’re put on Prozac, or they put on Xanax or they put like they put on medication for different things that should be treated, it’s not suppressed. And so this past year, I’ve noticed that children I mean, to me that children from the age of like, 16 1718, up to like 20 456, the amount of young people passing because they cannot cope, suicides, overdoses, that has really touched me on a grief level in this past year to put up like, I’m going through this whole ups, I’m upset about it, I’m angry about it. And but I’m turning that anger and frustration on sudden as I’m trying to turn it into more education. And so when people come to my office, I, when I intuitively I know, I know that like this little tiny little tweaks that they could do to get it better. You know, I point out to them, I’m looking to the microbiome, because the tummy is the second brain. And I tend to think of it this and we have the brain, we have the heart and we are the tummy. We have to love a three to work together in unity, to have a healthy family. I went off a little bit but yeah, that’s this is in the past year where my grief has been sort of absorbing this young people of America, exceptionally talented people with such great hearts. You know, it’s just my heart goes out to the children, to the parents, to the mothers to the fathers to the siblings.

Victoria Volk  48:13
And it’s, I think to it comes down to the lack of support within a family unit, whether it be support from the community or support from the healthcare system, which is overloaded already, you know, there. And I think, when I hear my bandwidth again, is we talk about mental health. Yes, I wish we would take the word mental out of it, which would be emotional health. Yes. What is what will serve us in our emotional health? And you don’t work through emotions by popping a pill.

Sirry Berndsen  48:55
Exactly. That is likely that is exactly what I’m talking about.

Victoria Volk  48:59
I’m reminded of a podcast interview I did a while back with Jordan Brody. And he was he’s an openly gay man, and really struggled as a child with bullying and things like that, despite having a really supportive, loving, you know, father figure in his life, he, you know, just had other challenges, and really embracing right being a child that recognizes that they’re different. And where he obviously said he felt different, but he was put on medication as an eight year old, an eight year old. That’s an anxiety you know, and depression and add, I think ADHD, one of those, but he was brilliant. He was really smart. He was in a, like a gifted program. And he found himself pretending to be dumbing himself down for others and has created so much grief, like he couldn’t even authentically live who he was his, his essence, his soul of what was his soul was wanting him to be and live into. He really suppressed all of it. And it started with, you know that medication didn’t help. Right? Right. And as an adult, you know, when I interviewed him for the podcast, he has been off medication, he’s not on medication anymore. He’s living his best life, you know, but he dealt with addiction, then, I mean, that set him on the stage of going down a path of addiction. And within a week, I believe of our podcast interview, his brother passed away of an overdose. And he came on the podcast, actually to talk about a loss of his best friend to addiction. Yeah, and you know, so it’s obviously was really it’s prevalent in his family. But why? Why?

Sirry Berndsen  51:03
Why? Well, I’ve been like this last few month I’ve been digging into the why and I think that um, and you’re so right, this should be this should be called emotional health or emotional well being. And, and I think that if you really get into the depth of things, because I actually studied journalism, I studied must mean media. And within that, it was also the the quote, unquote, the propaganda how to sell like there’s not marketing, but how to sell an idea. And if you really think about it this way, when you have large companies, like pharmaceutical companies, putting money towards doctors or hospitals, and paying them, it starts from an early age, it starts from a well with visits with an infant, and well visits to the to the pediatrician now includes years, not just the weight and everything, but it also includes vaccination and large nations. I question those two today, simply because we do not need to put what is it 72 vaccinations and in an infant, and within the first two years in America, it is absolutely insane. And so I think that it comes down to this, the big pharma, they have way too much power. And from the moment a child is born, they have way too much power in a child’s life. From a well visits to the first few years, the more that can give like the more that can give pills to the children. And that’s where it starts. So in other words, I think that in so many ways, the big pharma, they are sort of the they’re the drug dealers with the license with a golden license. I think the other thing also, I thought about this a lot, I don’t think that a lot of doctors, pediatricians are educated about the side effects on the long term effects of these things. They are, I think a lot of them are just going by faith. Somebody a rep comes from a rogue company, and they say, Oh, we have these these these is seen as sort of like a shopping cart. Would you like some of these so you can give to patients? And I think this is where it all starts. And I really my heart goes out to the American youth because of this. Young people, like you just said with him. He himself was like he was put on these medications from an early age. And then he was on the podcast to talk about his best friend and then his brother passes away. When is enough enough? Because it all starts somewhere. Yeah, you know, and instead of instead of putting them on drugs, why not then create a group gathering we have these young children coming into someone’s a wellness center, and they learn to sit in meditation or they learn to sit in the quiet and they learn about nutrition, and they learn about the blueberries and raspberries and they love like they learn about the herbal, herbal remedies and they learn about the wonderful things that nature gives us. Like I said, I started listening to audiobooks by Rudolf Steiner. And he was the one that sort of started the whole Waldorf. Are they the Waldorf School is that based on his ideology, and there’s actually a website some guy, he’s read all of his books, it’s on Rudolf Steiner audio.com I highly recommended is sort of an old fashioned way of writing, reading and listening to it, but it’s well worth it. But I picked that up. The closer we can come to nature with our children, the brighter future we will have with the children and the more we move away from the Big Pharma on the popping the pills, the healthier youth we will have, it’s the future of America lives in the arms and the hearts and the hands of the youth and the parents, but it’s the youth of America that will be able to build up the country to its greatest glory that I want was.

Victoria Volk  55:11
It makes me think of when you mentioned about like, you know, a center, like a youth center where they can learn these different things. It’s like mentioned meditation, it’s learning coping skills. Like, here’s the thing, like, as adults, we don’t necessarily cope very well, either. You know, it’s like, because I feel like, and I’ve said this so many times, and you can, I think you’ll agree, but adulthood is childhood reenactments,

Sirry Berndsen  55:36
adulthood is childhood via likeness, I can see that.

Victoria Volk  55:39
Every belief, thought idea, like everything that we are taught as children are our personal experiences that we internalize. And we project all of that, as adults, like we. It’s like, like that cycle, that seven year cycle like these. It’s like, you mentioned that the soul has this lesson it needs to learn. And it was actually mentioned by Dr. Chris Kerr, who is on the surviving death, he talked about end of life experience and has a book death is by the dream and he was on the podcast and talked about one particular experience of an old man who was a war World War Two veteran who, at the end of his life, the deepest pain that he was carrying all his life was came back to heal him, like his comrades came back to heal him. Of all the because he his job was to transport the dead on the ships, and his comrades came back at the end of his life. Oh, wow. And it was, you know, so I think of that and how, like what you said how the soul has this lesson, these I, I feel like after learning about end of life, going through end of life doula training and talking to Dr. Kerr, our soul has this experience at the end of life, probably beyond based on what you what you shared, right?

Sirry Berndsen  57:11
Right. Because I mean, then we have other lifetimes. When it comes to presses with the past life, past life regression. We have lifetimes before this lifetime and our minds. We think of everything as being a timeline. And it is in that light, like on the earth plane, it is a timeline. Everything has a minute, everything has a second, everything has an hour to it, everything has a calendar to it. But in the afterlife, there’s no light, like there’s no timeline, with a set of certain concepts. It’s hard to grasp. And going back to what you just said about touch, both occur. I love his work, I think you also want to was a despot vision. So it’s not like half remember, death has been a dream, or death. Okay. But that was about a dream. Yes. So I was actually talking to a friend of mine in the UK this morning, who’s a doctor who is about to be transferred from the end of life care, being a physician at the end of life care to the ER doctor and, and I said to him, you know, you’re meant to go there. And I think you’re going to be entering the space of prayer. And he’s like, What do you mean, he was pausing. And I said, Well, it was going to be the place of prayer. And, and I talked to him about Christopher curve, thoughts occur. And his TED Talk. And I said, years ago, it did, especially for a woman, this is a long time ago, I did a session that I never forget it. Most sessions I collect, they close my mind for the glimpses of a few sessions that stick in my head. So there was a young lady that came into my office and, and I knew nothing about her. Like, I never know anything about other people. Like when people come to my office, I just look at the first name on what type of session that booking. That’s all I want. I just want the true first name, I don’t care about the last name, they have to have an email so that I can actually email them information. But the rest of it are just first name and what excuse me what type of session and so I knew nothing about her as she comes to my office. And before I was going into my office, I felt there was this amazing light around her and I didn’t understand what it was. But it was almost as if there was this huge choir of light beings that were like following me to this appointment. And in my mind’s eye, I saw her as if she was she the the person in my office, she was done in front and central like the soloist, and this big choir of lights of beings behind her. And then in the session, I said to her, like I see that you work with people in a healing in a setting with the hospital in a healing setting. But there’s a lot of people in the office life I want to come forward and thank you and there was this immense It was like a way was a tsunami of this light. And there was a tsunami of prayers and gratitude towards this woman. And I was able to bring through, like from that big choir, it was like 1000 people more, I was able to bring forth like a couple of them on a gave a really good description of them. And then she said, Well, this was one of my last patients. And so this woman, she was an emergency care physician for many years in the ER, and helping people, you know, survive or die. She was a very prayerful person. And so, and it was interesting to me to see it from the mediums perspective, that she is interesting also, because she was a scientist, so she didn’t see it. But I saw it, and I saw this, it was sort of like the massive amount of it was like the wave of lights behind her was just immense, because she was working in the medical field and helping people die or alive, bring life or bring them into the afterlife.

Victoria Volk  1:01:06
I think the whole theme of this conversation really just comes down to it boils down to just connection, this spiritual, spiritual connection. Yes, of the essence of who we are our own spirit, and how we’re all connected to each other.

Sirry Berndsen  1:01:28
Absolutely. And I think also the other thing also is how close we are to the spirit world. But I always say they walk, they walk with us, they walk among us. And the closer we bring them into our lives, the closer we bring in the angelic energy, the easier the Kinder, the more loving we become, the easier life will become like when things when we surrender. But instead of going against the instead of going against life, but when we surrender to the gentleness or the wave of life, we then create an easier path. And I see, I think it’s the closest on the spirit world.

Victoria Volk  1:02:14
I see this parallel of we medicalize death and dying, but we also medicalized life.

Sirry Berndsen  1:02:23
We do. That is such a good point.

Victoria Volk  1:02:24
Right? both ends of the spectrum. There is no there’s no, where’s the balance?

Sirry Berndsen  1:02:30
Well, where is the Yes. And it has become so scientific. That we have lost sight of the spiritual.

Victoria Volk  1:02:40
Detached?

Sirry Berndsen  1:02:42
Yes. Because we are spiritual beings having human experiences.

Victoria Volk  1:02:50
In a nutshell, yes.

Sirry Berndsen  1:02:53
Yes, we are. We are divine light beings. Having human experiences and grief.

Victoria Volk  1:03:04
Yeah, its a part of it. A healthy part of it.

Sirry Berndsen  1:03:08
It is a healthy part of it. I also, I also do believe that the power of prayer can be so immense, because prayer is such a simple thing. And I’m not talking about prayers in heavenly Father, I’m not talking about those types of prayer, but I’m just talking about the simple voice within your heart, the simple chants the simple. Oh, God helped me get through this day, or like, it couldn’t be very, you know, or God, protect my children. Or if even if we want to call on our ancestors, like mom or dad or grandma, please protect my child today. Those are in my mind in my heart. Those are prayers. And I do and I know that prayers work. I know the power of prayer is immense. And I do feel and I know that for sure that if we went back to the basics with children, and we brought in more meditation, the power of prayer on the essence of spiritual living on the earth plane. We would then have, have a future that is so much easier. And prayer doesn’t need to be rigid. Prayer can be so simple. bring light to this person. bring light to this person. That is it.

Victoria Volk  1:04:24
It’s really letting your heart live in intention. And yes, that energy out with intention.

Sirry Berndsen  1:04:27
Yes.

Victoria Volk  1:04:31
And I can say personally, prayer did change my life because I prayed for my husband. I didn’t pray for him. I prayed for someone.

Sirry Berndsen  1:04:43
Yes.

Victoria Volk  1:04:43
Now this was me not going to church ever right?

Sirry Berndsen  1:04:46
Yep.

Victoria Volk  1:04:47
Please bring me someone who is good for me. That was it was a very simple prayer, bring someone into my life who was good for me. And I knew my husband. For seven years. We were friends. Yeah, but we had, you know, when he went his way I went mine, we met a junior year in high school, when he moved to my town, but we did not date we did not, there was no like love connection at any point during that time. And with that prayer, all of a sudden, he was like, front and center, relentless in wanting to be in a relationship with me, to this day, it’s like, you know, like, we didn’t look at each other, like, Oh, I’m gonna marry you someday, in high school, or I want to date you know, seven years later, seven years later, right? And I still, like, there is no explanation. Like, he really didn’t can even give me an answer. Really, like, yeah, prayer changed my life. And that, that set me on finding a relationship and discovering a relationship with God again, and my spirituality and faith and all of that, like it just Yeah, a very defining moment in my life.

Sirry Berndsen  1:06:11
But I think also this goes back to those that prayer does not need to be a religious prayer. It can be if people want to, like if people want to go to the church, or the temple or the you know, wherever they want to go, and they want to do their prayers in front of their statues. They can do that, like messes with me, I pray all the time, my family, or I go out in nature, I sit on the beach, I will pray. For me, prayer is a part of breathing. You know, it’s just a part of being and it’s a part of breathing. And I pray for the strangers. And I think that when we find ourselves being aggravated or annoyed, but someone needs to pray, we need to send them even more lights, so that we can heal ourselves from that frustration, from that annoyance.

Victoria Volk  1:06:58
It makes me think of whole oponopono the four steps of it’s actually just mentioned it with a client yesterday. It’s I’m sorry, please forgive me. Thank you. And I love you. I think before I’m not even sure if it’s in that order. I I’ve have a couple posts coming up about it. But you because really, it’s it is what is within us that feels provoked, you know, what does this person provoking in me, what is it about me that needs to heal that feels provoked by this person? or you know.

Sirry Berndsen  1:07:37
It also goes back to the grief.

Victoria Volk  1:07:39
It does!

Sirry Berndsen  1:07:40
because what happened in our lives that causes grief, though, we then have to reflect on.

Victoria Volk  1:07:49
And that’s what grief recovery does, right? The method itself does. It brings to the forefront exactly what needs to be healed. And what to work through in a guided supported evidence-based way, right? It’s Yeah, yeah. I’m partial, I’m partial.

Sirry Berndsen  1:08:11
But I was interesting, because you also mentioned earlier that, um, when someone has such you that, like you said, some of you were grief, grief recovery person, and they said, Oh, that is depressing. That was their perception. But I think that we, when we, when we that understand grief on a deeper level, when we come out on the other end, we see all of the gifts coming to us what a gift it is. You know what a gift it is, but I met you on what a gift it is that I met a couple of your friends. It’s a gift, and it all starts with one person.

Victoria Volk  1:08:48
Yeah. Because we’re all connected.

Sirry Berndsen  1:08:52
We’re all connected. And we’re all gifted and we are all a gift to one another.

Victoria Volk  1:08:56
So I want to really give something this has been amazing so far, but for Grievers listening, what is one tip that you would give are hurting heart listening today.

Sirry Berndsen  1:09:09
So this is coming from me as the medium. I think with grieving with grieving people, and I think especially this is the thing I often reflect on what is hardest grief. I, um, there are two rooms that I have perceived to be the hardest ones, and that is the loss of a child. For both mom and dad. Oftentimes fathers have a hard time expressing it mothers that seem to have a little bit of an easier time expressing grief when they lose a child. And it doesn’t matter how old the child is. It could be 3 million old it could be three years old, but the loss of a child is probably one of the hardest. And then also when people have been together like life partners, and when a woman becomes a widow where our mom becomes A winter and they’re so in love with their soul partner. Those are two of the hardest ones it is more. But I think also went out when a young child loses a mother. That’s another that’s probably the third one that is the hardest one to sort of, cope with I think but even loss of a pets can be really hard for a child, but when people um, so for me as the medium when people lose someone, I say, take time for you. Sit with them, sit with them memories, listen to the music you both enjoy and look at the photographs when you feel ready to do so. If you know and here’s a big deal if you know that someone is dying. If you have an older parent or grandmother who was dying, sit down with them and record their stories. videotape them. If you can take pictures, get your phone out, record them and say, Hey, Grandma, tell me about when you Grandpa, when you met, those stories become absolutely precious, more pressures on any stuff. Having someone’s voice on a voicemail is precious, having someone’s having someone telling a story on a video is precious, prepare for those types of things. Because once they’re gone, their voice is gone. So in prep, so in preparation for loss, I think that do everything that you can to cherish each and every moment. Now we don’t always have the time to prepare. But after someone passes away, take time for yourself. take time off from work. And if there are people in your life that are not being helpful, supportive, or conducive to your grief, let them go, someone else will replace them or they will come back into your life if it’s really worth it. But take time to grieve, be kind and be gentle. And let yourself cry. Like just let the tears out. Go into nature, hug a tree, sit in the grass, go on the beach, do anything and everything that really brings you joy. And do it over and over and over again until it gets a little bit easier. One thing that I did want to say is after someone has passed and and you really feel like you want to connect with them. There’s one thing that I’ve said to people make time for the spirits.

Sirry Berndsen  1:12:39
Write them letters, but doing this as a way that if you were to For instance, if you sit down every single time at the same time, let’s say it’s a Sunday evening at 7pm. Or you know that you’re going to have some time during the middle of the week. And let’s say Wednesday evening at 6pm. Make an appointment with your loved one it was pretty well and sit with them. Listen to your favorite music together, have the photograph on your lap have the photo of Next you have a piece of paper and a pad and write them a letter and tell them how much you miss them. And, and if you feel they are coming close, listening, take time, and just write down what they would say to you. Because that is true spirit communication, because that’s when you have the flow. Going back and forth, you say one thing, I miss you so much. And then you may hear this very subtle voice in your head. And it’s there as if they’re back. And they may say the same to you, I miss you so much. It may be a child in the spirit world. And let’s say a mother sits down. And let’s say a mother lost a child unless the child’s name is Rachel, I’m just making up, you know, Rachel, or Amanda. And let’s go with Rachel. So let’s say a mother sits down and she said Rachel, I miss you so much. And then the mom may then begin to feel the voice of Rachel in her mind. And if she brings her closer, if she brings her daughter closer, she made them feel her in her heart. And then she may feel as though her daughter’s speaking to her, write it down, write letters to your child, write letters to not want to miss farewelled make the connection and hold on to those letters and you can always read them back. The more you do this, the more you deepen the connection and the one thing that I would also highlight if you can if people are sitting inside, light a candle praying, pray that they come to you pray that they merge with you, and they will come because they hear your thoughts. So I think that after someone passes away, I think that um, when we feel that our spirit is ready, bring them close so that we can merge with them and we can really, truly communicate.

Victoria Volk  1:15:02
Beautiful. I love that. What gives you the most joy and hope?

Sirry Berndsen  1:15:07
I knew you’re gonna asked that because when I was I was thinking um I would say nature nature because it’s interesting nature and animals. Nature is always there for me, nature never feels me. I can walk outside I can walk to the park I can walk to the beach, I can sit there and I can be one with nature. And it never ever fails me. Even in a snowstorm nature’s there. I would say nature. Next up to that is the animals that eat terian I was a vegan for a little while. When I go home to Iceland. I will have fish shrimp, but that’s as far as I go. So animals is the next thing and when I get a chance to sit with dogs or cats even the other day I’ve got a chance to talk to a duck than Shelby and I got a chance to sit with a goats and the god fell asleep in my arms you know I have this connection with animals kind of like St. Francis of Assisi I have because we can also communicate with animals just like we can do with people is the same vibration is just same energy. So I would say nature and animals so that brings me joy nature. And the I think also the mystery of the cosmos the mystery of the universe the mystery of all there is the mystery that lies beyond that brings me joy.

Victoria Volk  1:16:43
I love that because it sparks curiosity for me those things yeah, that brings me joy curiosity brings me joy.

Sirry Berndsen  1:16:51
You look at the stars and you wonder what is there.

Victoria Volk  1:16:55
I have a little follow up to our session that I had with you. And you had share during our session about my youngest and her connection with nature and and that she will Sunday understand the the importance of bees and just nature itself and herbs and in animals just she has a deep connection with animals and things like that two things. I mean, I want to share with you to follow up from our session. And one thing was we just very recently, this is a family from California came to our area and they brought their bees brand new company, they wanted to expand bought a place in our area. So they plan to come back year after year. And they put bees on our land. So we can have honey, we will get some honey and so interesting so that I thought oh my gosh, like that’s crazy. Because the this we’ve you know, we’ve been here for like 1112 years, you know, never had the opportunity to have bees on our land or anything you know, so that’s I found that fascinating. The second thing is a baby pheasant had just walked into my husband’s work all by itself all by itself, like the mother I don’t know if it got you know, yeah. Wouldn’t lost his mother whatever, we bring it home. And my youngest was tried nursing that thing and not nursing, you know, like, yeah, making sure that it got what it needed. And she we had some birdseed and stuffers, some feet like stuff and she was crushing that up and feeding it by hand and putting water in a syringe and, and just really nurturing this baby pheasant just a little chick just at bay thing. And she tapped her foot and it would come to her outside and just really connected to this little baby pheasant Well, after three days, it did die. And she was crushed. Tears. We ended up burying her it was a female. But I just thought back to what you had shared. And the words that came to my mind was because she wants to be a veterinarian. And I know I’d share that in our you know, after you had shared all that I said, Well she wants to be a vet. And why came from for me after that happened was she needs to be a vet for an animal sanctuary. Yes. A sanctuary. Yeah, that’s what kind of came up for me I guess, after that experience.

Sirry Berndsen  1:19:32
So you know, when I when I do my work they flow through because like I put my I put my ego
aside. And I was describing this a couple of days ago to someone I would say that 10 20% of my left brain is in full action asking questions. But then I will say at present our brain is in full flow with spirit communication. So the whole life review is really coming from spirit. It is your story and not even from Got the young kids you know I even forgot the you like not talking to you I forgotten the session I find it isn’t that interesting is that I don’t know you and I don’t know your family I’ve never met your daughter um isn’t it interesting how this spirits and I don’t remember like if anyone came through for us it’s like my memory is none like his nail but I find it interesting how this spirits how they know these things this this timelessness that is just absolutely divine and Bs you know it just is bs Isn’t that interesting? Yeah. So I just had to show follow up was wonderful and I do hope as it becomes that for and also I hope that he becomes a holistic that because holistic dice they may I mean they make miracles happen holistic buts and I really hope it’s going to be for a sidetrack but you know what is interesting when I was seven years old I there I remember this vividly To this day I buried my first bird and I remember the lights the light around me and my friend when we hold held a little bird, I think it was a robin or something and we held it on we were so just devastated by the death of a bird and then we put in a little hole and I still remember this like was yesterday the light around us and I was seven years old again seven. How old is your daughter?

Victoria Volk  1:21:30
12

Sirry Berndsen  1:21:32
Oh so she’s going to be a vet?

Victoria Volk  1:21:36
I don’t know we’ll see. I guess she wants to, that hasn’t changed it’s been few several years but she’s said that

Sirry Berndsen  1:21:46
you can even if she even if she ends up not going down the road of being a vet then she can always be a farmer. And she can nurture love the animals and the plants around her.

Victoria Volk  1:21:59
Yeah, she’s very much Let’s get her hands dirty playing the dirt.

Sirry Berndsen  1:22:05
So she’s probably incredibly healthy.

Victoria Volk  1:22:09
Yeah, she is, yeah.

Sirry Berndsen  1:22:11
Most kids they get to play on the dirt. They’re the healthiest ones of all.

Victoria Volk  1:22:16
Yeah, and we’ve gotten so far away from that to like I remember playing with old tractors and cards and making roads in the dirt and you know now it was outside all day, every day.

Sirry Berndsen  1:22:29
Yeah. I was just a way I was away from my playground was the beach and and it was like walking around to the seaweed I’m playing with the seaweed and also digging in the dirt and it was a childhood. It was a magical childhood. Outside all the time and I remember when I was 10 years old in the summertime we could stay outside until 10pm when I was 11 years old, we only were talking about like June July August, we could sell 10 until like 11pm and then when we hit like 13 we’re able to stay on till midnight. Keep in mind the summers in Iceland. The sun doesn’t set so it’s daylight all night long. So there’s no difference of daylight.

Victoria Volk  1:23:14
I saw a video actually of a woman I made on Instagram are some things from Iceland and she documented like documented that and I’m just like Wow, I can’t imagine I can’t like you know, it’s just something you can’t wrap your head around.

Sirry Berndsen  1:23:31
Have you know, like for instance, when we talk about nature and magic. So now we have a we have in Iceland we have volcano that is erupting. And there’s not one of these big plumes that is coming that is coming up but it’s one of these with a lava field growing and growing and growing and I was in Iceland the other day and and I had been asking people around like you know how difficult is the track to get up there and there’s a well it’s gonna be like an hour and a half walk and whatnot and I’m not in a good shape. Because I live in this city and I don’t get into nature much but I was in a car accident a couple of years ago until my like I’m still paying the price of that, like my walking and everything. But I thought it was like you need to be there. And I walked for probably about an hour and a half up this hill and sort of up this hill and Donna Valley and up another Hill to sit on top of another mountain and I was just watching this lava just sort of spewing up out of this tiny little tidal mountains a mountain that is beginning to be created. I saw this lava coming up and I saw the lava flow and the magic of the earth I mean just thinking about the force of nature that is below our feet coming up through the cross and just flowing like with the black and with a red fire and and it was just absolute Magical to observe because I was sitting on top of this mountain it started raining and that is it started like then it was sleet and then there was hail. And it was freezing cold. But I loved every minute of it. We just observing nature coming to creation.

Victoria Volk  1:25:23
When we think we’re in control, right?

Sirry Berndsen  1:25:25
Oh, yeah.

Victoria Volk  1:25:26
Nature reminds us. No, no, you’re not.

Sirry Berndsen  1:25:30
Yeah. Anyway,

Victoria Volk  1:25:31
oh, this was so wonderful. I feel like I could have talked I could talk for another hour easily. But is there anything else, any guided message you feel like you would like to share

Sirry Berndsen  1:25:43
When it comes to refund laws, I would like for people to go within and tap into the depth of love and the depth of love loss. Mercy doot doot. Together, love them love to come to the surface when you’re ready. And when love comes to the surface, you know that you will have this wisdom all around you and you will conquer anything and everything around you. And know the spirit is always in your hearts just so far away. The spirit is always around you. And spirits through the power of prayer will help you work through grief.

Victoria Volk  1:26:23
Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Sirry Berndsen  1:26:27
Thank you so much, Victoria. You’re awesome.

Victoria Volk  1:26:30
Aww, right back at you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because Sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.

 

Chasing Freedom

chasing freedom

Chasing Freedom

The basis of your life is absolute freedom; most humans don’t know that. Because you look around and you see things you don’t want, and you feel that if you really had the freedom, you would choose differently. But, you are so free that you can choose bondage. You are so free that you can choose vibrations that are not up to speed with who you are and what you deserve.     – Abraham Hicks

Does this statement above resonate with you as much as it does with me?

I think of an extreme example of chasing freedom in the stories of concentration camp survivors like Viktor Frankl and Edith Eger. Their experiences are vastly similar and different at the same time. Viktor was an adult during his experience, while Edith was a 16-year-old child who found herself responsible for protecting her younger sister the best way she could after both of their parents were executed.

The common thread of their stories is that freedom, although felt out of touch, they had to find it in their minds if they would ever survive. And even once free, it was as if they were unable to believe it was true, as Edith described in this podcast interview with Brene Brown.

The word freedom feels good. Freedom is one of my values. I don’t like to feel restricted, boxed in, or limited. Because it’s something, I strongly value, I believe that it’s greatly influenced many decisions throughout my life.

The difficult thing about freedom is that we make decisions based on fear when we don’t feel free. Along the way, we mentally and emotionally imprison ourselves with limitations and self-sabotage. As the quote from Abraham says, by choosing to focus on the things you don’t want and feeling as though you don’t have a choice (which is a common feeling while deep in grief), you are choosing bondage.

Because we are always free to the extent we allow ourselves to be, we are more than capable of choosing what we do deserve. We are more than capable of choosing a different reality for ourselves. This is the tug-of-war feeling we can easily feel, and that keeps us stuck. That same tug-of-war feeling also causes us grief too.

Let’s say you are struggling with an addiction to alcohol. More than anything, you want to kick the addiction and take control of your life rather than feeling as though the alcohol has its hold on you. You see the impact your addiction is having on not only your life (and potential) but the lives of those you love and care about. Instead of seeing how capable and powerful you are, you choose the bondage that the alcohol keeps you in instead. You freely choose that alcohol is what you deserve; being who you are without it isn’t enough.

In my early 20’s, I relied on alcohol to make me feel “free.” However, I was accomplishing the complete opposite; I was keeping myself tied to some false idea of how others wanted me to be. I was choosing the bondage of alcohol – and I had the freedom of choice in that. I am, by no means, saying that people can quit whatever their addiction is cold-turkey on their own, as I did. My mom was able to kick her smoking habit cold-turkey, too, after being a smoker for over forty years. For forty years, my mom gambled with her health. She had the freedom to choose to get support to quit any time before she chose to do it independently. I believe we all have that power within us.

We have freedom in the United States that many other cultures of people dream about. And yet, in the U.S., we are one of the most unhealthy (physically and/or emotionally) and medicated of all. So, how free are we really?

When we chase freedom, we need to be careful not to be chasing an external means to give us the freedom that is otherwise accessible and is readily available – in our minds. It starts with our thoughts which influence our feelings.

How free do you feel today?

We will always have something that will challenge our ability to shift the focus of our minds. It takes conscious effort to keep our eyes on the prize of mental and emotional freedom, especially with so much chaos and disruption around us, whether in our personal lives or the world.

I’ve personally been putting a lot of effort into a morning regimen that has had such a positive influence on how I start my day and handle the day’s stresses. I have made morning self-care non-negotiable. This action alone creates momentum for the rest of the day. I then make it a goal to keep that feeling of freedom going as long as possible. And, when I notice I’m allowing those thoughts of bondage to creep in, I do something to shift my energy from a list I created (and included in my latest newsletter).

Have you found something that helps you get out of a funk when you’re feeling less free in your mind?

What is it worth it, to you, to feel freedom?

What are you willing to let go of to experience freedom?

No matter what you’ve experienced or been through, I want you to feel hopeful that freedom is possible. Like Viktor and Edith have proven, in the outcomes of their lives and their work, freedom is in the mind. Let them be the guides for the rest of us in demonstrating that, regardless of what we experience, it’s possible to live an expansive life.

much love, victoria

 

 

 

 

Ep 26 | Victoria Shaw

Victoria Shaw | The Cloaks We Wear

 

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Victoria Shaw is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified School Counselor in the State of Connecticut.  She is also the author of four books, for tweens, teens, and adults, and the mother of two spirited, adult children.

Victoria shares the loss of her sacred, beloved self, as she refers to her then self; the part of herself who she always was, however, lost touch and connection with over the passage of time and the beginning of motherhood.

She shares how her life experience led her to the intuitive counseling work she does today, and also fully expressing her gifts as a medium and how that blends in and supports her work and her clients.

This episode has a gift of wisdom for everyone. There is something you will take from this, regardless if you identify yourself as a griever or not.

There is a lot of depth to this conversation, and we discuss the following topics and more:

  • The mother identity – loss of self
  • Leaning into the gift of being empathic + tips for empaths
  • Intuition – the key to connecting to your higher self
  • Grievers – How to know what to do next
  • Answering the Question: Do we need to suffer to grow?
  • What happens when we die?
  • Unhelpful things, from Victoria’s perspective, we do as grievers to ourselves and others
  • How to connect with a departed love one

Victoria speaks my language in this episode. You don’t have to be “into the woo” to get something out of this episode. In fact, I’m going to address the idea of the “woo” in Episode 27 where I share my Takeaways & Reflections (along with an amazing realization I had upon editing and listening back to this episode).

Listen with an open mind and an open heart, and if you do listen, know that it was meant for you to hear.

Our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. – Buddha

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Victoria:

Victoria Volk  00:00
Welcome to another week of grieving voices. If you’re new here, thank you for tuning in. And if you’ve been around a while, thank you as well. Today, my guest is Dr. Victoria Shaw. And we are going to be talking about all sorts of stuff regarding theories, tools, techniques, her grieving story, of course, and also a little bit of the Woo, and which excites me. So, Victoria, how about you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Victoria Shaw  00:39
Yay, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. So, I am an intuitive counselor, and coach and my, my journey. My story is that about, wow, 15 years ago, I started to, you know, I felt like a longing in my life, I felt like there was something something was missing. There was something I was supposed to be doing that I wasn’t doing. And I didn’t know what it was. And at that point, I had left a career in academic psychology, I had done some some book writing, which is something I always wanted to do, I was in the thick of being a mom, stay at home mostly stay at home mom at this point. But I just kept feeling this deeper longing, this deeper question, there was something else I was supposed to do. And because at that time to my kids were pretty complicated. And they were both struggling with different things. And those different things brought me a little bit further and further out of that left brained, mainstream box of how things should be done. And I started seeing intuitive healers and medical intuitive and energy workers and all sorts of things. And I started to just have my mind expanded more and more to these kinds of tools that maybe were not in my left brain Western trained toolbox. It was on that path. And I discovered that I, I had this gift of intuition. And intuition is something we all have, it’s that kind of knowing that you have that’s not something you’ve been taught. It’s not that something you can explain it with your logical mind. But it’s something where you know, it’s true. You don’t know why, you know, but you’re 100%, right. And everyone’s has an experience with their intuition. It’s but it’s not something that’s talked about a lot in our society. And it’s not something that most of us have been taught to nurture and taught to us. And for me, that intuitive call was really strong. Oftentimes my intuitive information borders on what people might call psychic, or like six sensory. And I realized that had this gift my whole life, I had the ability to get guidance for people, I had the ability to know things about people that I had no business knowing. I was a feeler so I could feel what other people were feeling. But because I didn’t have a frame of reference for understanding it, because it was so strong and I wasn’t using appropriate boundaries, I was sort of overwhelmed. And I’d kind of lost touch with the gift Enos of the gifts. And so this all started a journey for me to connect with my intuition and really develop it and turn it back into the gift that it’s meant to be. And now what I do is I use my intuition to support others in doing the same and tapping into their own inner resources and their own inner wisdom. So that they can get the most out of this human experience.

Victoria Volk  03:34
Do you feel like because I, I’m a feeler, I feel things deeply and working with, you know, I used to be a CNA in a nursing home and did hospice, home health care, things like that. And so you can definitely feel without things even need needing to be said I could and I just did not feel uncomfortable sitting with people in their grief, even though I myself am a griever. And maybe do you feel like when you consider yourself or know yourself to be aggrieved, or do you feel like that’s when we kind of? I don’t know, like, do you feel like not sure what I’m trying to ask here? I know what I’m trying to ask. I’m just so excited about this conversation. I feel like my intuition was kind of cut off in a way from my grief because of my grief, but at the same time, I was I would feel things with people. And I didn’t understand how why that was.

Victoria Shaw  04:43
Yeah, you’re saying a bunch of different things. No, it’s good. It’s good. It’s good. I’m gonna try to unpack them if I if I may. Look, I think especially people doing end of life work and that kind of care is such a beautiful gift to hold the space of This is how it comes through to say enlightenment, light, joy, peace, eternity, like with people that are passing over and knowing that even though that grieving process is so hard, and even though everything about our human existence tells us that death is the end, it’s not the end, it’s just a transition, it’s a transformation from one state of being your human state to another state of being where you’ll just be, you know, an energy spiritual being again. But holding people through that process is so powerful, and my readers, and I hope that I can share this and if not, I hope you have a good editor. I think that’s a gift that you have to hold people through that space and to hold the light through people through that space when they are grieving. And I think that’s a beautiful gift. I think it’s a gift that you came into this physical lifetime with. And I think your own personal grief experiences have actually helped you with that they’ve helped you understand even if you’re not always understanding that with your brain, your viscerally your body knows that there’s, there’s, there’s something to be gained through this process. Okay, so I hope that makes sense.

Victoria Volk  06:08
It does. And I just want to share briefly an experience that I just wrote about not that long ago. I think it’s fair post coming up. But my, okay, so 30 years after my dad passed, I was eight when he passed away, I had this inner knowing when I found out his only living sibling or his brother was dying of brain cancer. He was in the hospital, they didn’t know how much time he had left to live. I hadn’t seen him since my dad’s funeral, we were pretty much cut off from that side of the family. And I had this inner feeling that I needed to go see him. Even though I hadn’t seen him for 30 years. I didn’t know if he’d recognize me, he was diagnosed with brain cancer, I didn’t know if you’d recognize me what that experience would be like anything like that. And I open the hospital room door. And not it mean, it was just this, I can’t It was like magic. It was just this magical healing moment for I think both of us. And not, five minutes later, 10 minutes later, there’s a knock at the door. And here it was his daughter, one of his daughters and a cousin, I didn’t even remember meeting as a child who they live like, like across the country, and the neighboring state. And so that’s where I was like, wow, this, it was just a powerful experience for me. And I really want to the listeners to understand or to what they what I want them to hear in this is that we always do have that intuition, like you said, and it’s just listening to it. And it’s been open to it. And I want to know, tell us how you came to do this work? I know you said it was a medical intuitive. But what led you what was going on in your world? What was the grief that you then were told that you had to work through.

Victoria Shaw  08:00
So in the process of working with my kids and being introduced to all these different you know, out of the box healers, my pediatrician Believe it or not sent me to this medical intuitive and so she was she was mostly asking questions like, you know, did somebody have Lyme disease or what are some good supplements to treat my son’s ADHD and but in the process and working with me, she said you know, that it tested that I had this grief. And I you know was like what? You know, I hadn’t I lost I don’t think I even had lost my grandmother. Yeah, I lost my grandfather when I was young. But those those big t trauma Greeks were not something that were part of my life. And I was really like racking my brain over what do you mean grief? And she said, well, you know, it could be a loss of of like, you know, she said it was a loss of a sacred Beloved, that was the word that came through. And I was like, you know, she’s like, well, that sacred Beloved, could be part a part of yourself. Whoa, hey, oh my gosh, yes. And that was a big catalyst on my journey, because I really thought about, you know, the parts of myself that I had left behind when I was in high school, and I had certain dreams and ideas of how I wanted my life to work. And that sense of agency that we all have at that age, when you know, the sky’s the limit, and you had these big dreams, I realized wow, you know, I forgot about those things. And also, just my professional identity too, because I had been you know, someone who I’m an Ivy League trained research psychologist, and you know, I was doing my postdoc at Columbia and I had you know, so I had this big professional persona that I really left behind because a I didn’t love doing it. And B I wanted to focus on on having my family, but all of those threads were still they were longings, they were losses, and so it was part of the steps that I took to, you know, investigate and work on those losses that led me to the work that I’m doing now. She actually sent me to an astrologer. Believe it or not took me about three years before that. actually happened. From the time that I identified that she identified I had this loss of the sacred Beloved, which I think was parts of me to seeing the astrologer. But the astrology reading was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life because, you know, she read my chart, and you maybe don’t believe in this stuff until it happens to you. But she literally told me, you know, based on my birth date, and the time I was born, and where I was born, right, all of my hopes and dreams and all of those things that I had, you know, thought were were the case about myself when I was in high school and what I wanted to do with my life, she validated everyone, she was like, well, that’s your life’s purpose. That’s why you’re here and it was just like, and so it really did bring me home to that that beloved self that part of myself and and it was, you know, that was the catalyst for me moving forward on my own healing and and development journey to do the work that I do today.

Victoria Volk  10:54
I love that story. I love that story, how it all came about how, how you kind of found your way back to you right? And I feel like for me, it’s just only starting to happen. And in the last five years or so, I actually had my palms read.

Victoria Shaw  11:12
Oh, cool.

Victoria Volk  11:13
A lot of people that know that there. Yeah, I was, because I was so desperate to just why am I feeling the way I’m feeling? Why is why am I not fulfilling this? Like you said, it’s like this, I was work at home mom, or stay at home mom, too. I did things on the side. But I was always home with my kids. And I just had this deeper longing to like, I’m meant for more than there’s more to life than just this. And not, I don’t mean to, you know, not just this as far as being a mother, but I just felt a deeper knowing. Right, but there was more gifts that I had, that I wasn’t expressing.

Victoria Shaw  11:53
And I think a lot of moms feel that way, especially in our culture and society, right. But I also think like, whenever we go through an identity shift, there’s a loss. And so you know, anyone who has kids knows, right that when you become a mom, everything about your world changes, like in a big, profound way. And there is you know that part of myself before I was a mom, that’s like we hold on what happened to me. And I think every single, you know, mother goes through this to some extent, and it’s about remembering, you’re still you too, and that we don’t have to, you know, go headlong into that, you know, identity of a mom, but also, you know, the way our society set up and a lot of the tasks and things that we have to do as a parent, especially if you decide to become a stay at home mom or you lose, you know, you lose one identity, maybe to gain another, you know, it’s tricky. And it’s about valuing valuing yourself through the process, valuing your choices, because I think, you know, sometimes motherhood is not, you know, it’s something we, when you’re pregnant, I remember everybody comes up to you and tells you is so excited that you’re having this baby, and you get so much attention. And then when you have the child, it’s just like, you go into the background, right? It’s like moms aren’t important moms, you know. And so we have to learn, I think, and I think a lot of, I think there’s a lot of shift towards this, how valuable the role of mothering is, but also that you don’t have to sacrifice and like sublimate your entire self to this process of raising your offspring. Because I think that’s really disempowering and unfortunate and woefully unnecessary.

Victoria Volk  13:30
And that sparked a thought on me, as I was hearing you talking, I can remember, you know, my kids were, at one point all three in diapers. And because my oldest was quite stubborn. And I just, I didn’t like, I didn’t go anywhere. And when I did, it was like it, my kids are pretty good. But you know, how just society in general, like your baby is crying, it’s like, can you please shut that baby up, or, you know, if you don’t feel comfortable even nursing your child in public, or there’s, you know, it’s just motherhood itself then is almost attacked, like you feel attacked as a mother even just being with your children in public sometimes. And so I think that just adds to the grief of that feeling of and resentment, right, like think it just breeds resentment in a lot of ways. I think I’m pretty sure it did for me, because I think that.

Victoria Shaw  14:19
Yeah, and I think a lot of people feel unsupported. A lot of moms feel unsupported. And, you know, I think all of this is ripe for change. But I know that you know, these are some of the pitfalls that people experience especially with those those little ones. And you know, it’s like all the responsibility is on you for everything that goes wrong, right? But there’s no support, there’s no help. There’s no like, I think a lot of us get lost, lost in that feeling. And again, for me, I would not roll back the clock at all being a mom has been one of the most powerful transformative experiences in my life and what’s been the catalyst for the work that I do now and I work with in my work, I do a lot of work with parents because for me A big part of my own personal and spiritual journey came from that that parenting dance and from, you know, I learning about myself about I’ve been doing a lot of my healing work from being a mom and being a parent. And so, I love to support other people that are interested in using the journey that way as well. So, I am so glad that I took this, this and I love my kids too, you know, there’s that. But it’s, it’s it can be really, really, really challenging. And again, there is that a lot of women I think, do feel that grief, that loss of self. And then of course to your grieving other things, if you’re grieving the loss of a parent, if you’re grieving a loss of things from your childhood, you know, that will be activated too, because what happens with our kiddos is, you know, as they go through certain ages and stages, that often triggers stuff within us. And if we did not feel parented, the way that we, you know, was ideal for us. And no one was parented perfectly, because we live in an imperfect world. And it’s just you’re not going to no parent even, you know, the best is one is not going to get it 100% right. So that stuff comes up for us as well. And that can be triggered, too, with, you know, when we come to the table of parenting our own kids. So while that can be a complicated process, I also like to look at it as an amazing opportunity for healing and growth.

Victoria Volk  16:19
I 100% agree, my kids have been a mirror for me.

Victoria Shaw  16:23
Yeah, I do that. And if you recognize it, you get so much more out of it. And you’re more effective parent too.

Victoria Volk  16:30
Right? And but it wasn’t I couldn’t see it when they were little. And you know, so I look back with regret in that regard. And I try not to I’m working on for, you know, forgiving myself for that.

Victoria Shaw  16:42
It’s it’s a good idea. But it takes time.

Victoria Volk  16:45
It does. It’s layers right. What did that experience for you when going through at the time when you found that intuitive healer, and you started to unpack that, what she shared with you. And your parenting like at the same time simultaneous?

Victoria Shaw  17:03
Yeah, it was all at the same time and a lot of it. One thing that I had recognized is that I’m an empath. So, empaths are people that feel when other people are feeling like it’s happening to them. And so they’re highly sensitive souls, they’re very compassionate souls, there’s more people open up now to their empathic gifts than ever before, because we are in a point of planetary transformation. And so a lot of people are, you know, awakening up to things that you know, five years ago would not have been an option for them, but it’s just everything’s accelerated. But so empaths are just these really great feelers and we have these big compassionate hearts. But the problem is, if you don’t, if you’re not careful, if you’re not aware, if you’re not grounded, and you don’t have scrupulous boundaries, a lot of empaths really feel that, like, if I can feel it, I’m supposed to heal it, I’m supposed to do something about it. And they can start to start taking on the pains of the world and become very overwhelmed, and also become confused about what’s theirs, and what’s someone else’s. And so that was sort of the story of my life. And I was getting all of this intuitive information from my empathic abilities. And also, just because like basically all my intuitive channels were turned on, it was and it was just like, TMI, like psychic TMI was too much, and I was overwhelmed all the time. And so, I couldn’t, you know, find the the pieces of gold and all of the flood of information. So for me, it was about learning about boundaries, it was learning about, you know, with your kids, that real important thing about letting them be on their own damn journey, and knowing that they’re gonna make mistakes, and they’re gonna, like, get dinged up and bruise, just like you did. And it’s part of the process of life. And your job is not to take away their pain, and your job is not to keep them locked in a padded room, your job is to support them on your journey. And the best way to do that is keep turning it tuning into that inner guidance and saying, okay, they have a journey, it may not be the path that I would choose for them to follow, but that’s not my choice. How am I being called to serve right now to support them on their journey and, and sometimes the intuition whether intuition tells us to do is way different than what our mind thinks we should do. Um, so that was a big part of it, learning boundaries, learning about that. And as I started to learn to respect my kids on their journey, a magical thing happened because I started to, like, respect my own journey in my own life on my own mistakes and the and the things that maybe didn’t go so well in my life, where I could start to release those losses and and have forgiveness for myself and the people in my world that maybe didn’t show up for me the way I wish they had. And again, it was a process. It did not necessarily happen overnight. It can, it usually doesn’t. But so it was just such a powerful journey. And then through all of that, I just kept hearing the call, you know, from my intuition of what those next steps were, and I just kept following them and one of those next steps for me was to pursue my counseling degree and you know, I I already had this doctorate in psychology as a research psychologist, but I didn’t have the clinical training. And, you know, my brain wanted me to go back and become a clinical psychologist, because that’s like way more prestigious, but my heart said, No, you know, you need to do this other thing. So I did that. And I got exactly the training that I needed. And you know, I’ve just been following those breadcrumbs one step at a time, because that’s how our intuition speaks to us.

Victoria Volk  20:23
This is so in line with the conversations I’ve been having with friends, books I’ve been reading. Conversation couldn’t be more timely. Thank you for sharing all of that. You have a quote, on your on your website, and I wrote it down. It says, our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. Buddha said that, yeah.

Victoria Shaw  20:52
There you go.

Victoria Volk  20:56
But it is on your website, and I wrote it down because it is beautiful. And and so how does your work as an intuitive counselor differ from other types of counselors?

Victoria Shaw  21:08
Absolutely, I think that anyone who’s doing any kind of healing or helping work well, whether they recognize it or not, they’re tuning into their inner wisdom, because that’s where all their really amazing truth wisdom comes from. And I think that, you know, the more we can do that, the more effective we are in pretty much anything we do, but especially if you’re in a healing or helping profession. And so I really encourage people in those fields to tune into your intuition more. And remember a lot of the tools and trainings and things that we all learn in school, at some point, somebody had to think those up. And a lot of times, not always, but many of those were, you know, intuitively guided things. But for me, you know, I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak intuitively, and I’m really, I guy, I lead with that intuition. And so I have training, I’m trained in different modalities. But when I’m doing my counseling work, I always tune into my intuition first, and I let that be the guide. And then, of course, if if, you know, my intuition tells me to use this particular strategy or particular tool based on all the things that I’ve learned over the years, I will absolutely do that. But I lead with my intuition first, because I think that’s where the gold is. And I think that the more we can tune into our inner wisdom, that’s, you know, and we didn’t get it, we didn’t really talk about this yet. But for me, I believe that your intuition is your connection to your higher self, it’s your connection to spirit, it’s like the direct line to your soul. And when you can start to live your life from that place, oh, my God, everything changes. And most of the people that come to me are people that you know, have signed up for this journey. And you know, they’re really ready to get more than just sitting in a therapy room and like, talk and talk and talk in and in staying at the level of the mind, they want that big, you know, enlightening experience. And they really want to start to tune into their own inner wisdom, and they really want to start to live their life from a more soul based perspective. So they are all for that. Occasionally, when I’m doing the counseling work, someone just finds me on psychology today. And you know, that’s fine too, because I don’t put the gifts away just because people don’t want to hear them, I can, I can do it either way, but more and more people are coming for that full experience. And sometimes that’s me just giving guidance, I’m not giving advice, which isn’t, which come from my mind and what I think people should do, but giving guidance, meaning I’m tuning into their highest wisdom, and you know, into their soul, their spirit guides, whoever you want to think about it. And I’m becoming a conduit for them to you know, hear the call of their soul. And that’s a big part of what I do both in counseling and in my you know, spiritual coaching work. And that’s like one of my favorite things to do. And sometimes that guidance will give me tools and strategies that they can use sometimes, you know, that will give me a particular if it’s in a counseling setting, or a content specific counseling modality that we might want to try. But again, I always leave with my intuition.

Victoria Volk  24:06
So, what would you say to someone listening and griever listening? You know, we’ve talked a lot your higher self and and I, like, I’ve been really digging into all that stuff myself lately. Um, what would you tell a listener, a griever? Listening? Yes. How to know. And how to have the awareness as to what should their next step be if they’re ready to get help? Because, and yeah, I’ll let you answer that.

Victoria Shaw  24:35
Okay. Yeah, that’s a great question. And there’s a lot of questions embedded in that one little question. First of all, it’s different for everybody, right? Because we are all beautifully, you know, unique. And so what will work for you now in this moment of time is specific to you, and only you and it could change in a minute because the only constant in this world is changed. So that said, you know, in terms of seeing Help first of all you’ll know if you’re uncomfortable if you’re feeling like I don’t want to sit with this anymore I’m so ready then please you know move forward and and get some support and support can come in lots of different ways from lots of different places you know sometimes we’re afraid to kind of and you get this a lot with therapy or pn and also at the intuitive work where people don’t you know, they’re afraid that the answer will like destroy them and it’ll be too much. So always trust your you know, I would, I would be kind to yourself with those fears. Remember that a good therapist or a good helper is going to go with you gently. And that usually the thing that we don’t want to open the thing that we don’t want to address once we crack the lid and let it breathe, it actually gets better not worse, right? It’s like if you ever like a really stinky, stinky stinky pot and you just keep it closed and everything keeps festering like the longer you keep the lid on the groceries gonna smell if you take the lid off in a supportive and loving environment, you know, maybe outside if it’s a sticky pot and you let it breathe a little bit then you can kind of get in there and clean it out. And so therapy works this way and you know, in terms of tuning into who to work with and and how to do that work always follow your intuition if something doesn’t feel right it probably isn’t and so go where you feel drawn go where you feel called go where you feel safe and comfortable and yes, there are always times when we’re challenged and we feel a little bit like uncomfortable too so you you want to start from that place of comfort so if something is uncomfortable, you have a relationship with somebody else who can hold that space for you and you probably know this from the work that you do because we need to be comfortable have a backdrop of comfort right before we want to start touching the uncomfortable that makes sense or at least it’s one way to do it some people just like to rip the band aid off and and dive into the acid bath and do it that way but that’s just not how I work personally I’m all about you know, being comfortable and the other thing that comes through and I’m sure you’ve addressed this before in your podcast but it’s coming through to share now you know grief comes in many different ways and many different forms and it’s different for everyone and you know it can be you know, it can be the loss of a cat it could be the loss of an identity it can be it can be so it can be the loss of a significant loved one it can be so many things you know grief happens to us all the time throughout the lifespan because again the only constant is change and so we’re always shifting and growing you know those grief moments are just so right for our own personal and spiritual development and if you can hold yourself through them and get support and you know come to that experience with as much consciousness as you can muster in that present moment it is just it’s an amazing opportunity for your spirit to shine and for you to actually get to a place of experiencing even more joy and the word that comes through is enlightenment in your life.

Victoria Volk  27:57
So much goodness in there. So, what would you say then to someone who feels like well you know what, yeah, I have grief but I also have trauma. I had traumatic experiences happened to me, how does that change their grieving experience if they’re so in that identity of probably more of a victim I suppose. If you’ve had like traumatic experiences versus grief of you know a loved one or something you may not feel like a victim as much maybe I don’t know. I don’t want to compare because that’s not what we do in grief recovery work we don’t compare lives but just the word trauma in itself.

Victoria Shaw  28:43
First of all loss is always traumatic right it’s it’s very rare to have any kind of loss where there isn’t a little bit of trauma and trauma is something that sometimes you know, we think of traumas big things like being abused or you know, being in a car accident or losing a loved one or and those things are definitely traumatic but we get traumas all the time big and small throughout our life and for me traumas anywhere where you know the outer world doesn’t match your inner magnet magnificence and there’s a spiritual being in human form which I think we all are there’s a lot of opportunities for those little things and bruises to happen over the course of our life and you know so trauma can be like you know, I don’t know if we discussed this example before but what comes to mind is you know, you’re four years old and you really you’re at the toy store and you really want that toy for a fire truck and mom rather than just saying no, I’m sorry, honey, you know, we have to wait for Christmas shames you and says we you shouldn’t want that and that’s too much money and like you’re a greedy little child to ask for that. So that’s really traumatic and we we have those experiences unfortunately or fortunately all the time throughout our life. And so, you know, we talk about trauma, it’s important to realize you might have trauma that you don’t even realize because you’re not identifying those things as traumatic experiences when in fact They can be. But we also know you know, in the clinical literature that people that have had a lot of what we call big t traumas, or a lot of little t traumas, firetruck is a little cheap trauma. You know, a rape is a big t trauma, but they’re both equally traumatic in their own special ways. Those people can have more complicated grief, where, you know, a grieving loss just stirs up a lot of other kind of trauma. And you know, I often say that trauma is the gift that keeps on giving. Meaning that we have many opportunities to keep working on it again and again, through our life, because it will often become re re triggered and we all become re traumatized. And, you know, from the perspective of someone who’s suffering, this seems like a bad thing. But again, it’s from a spiritual perspective, it’s just your soul giving you more opportunities to explore the issue so that you can grow and it’s really a beautiful thing because you’re able to explore that from different perspectives until eventually you’re able to find peace with it. And and that’s to me what the healing process really is, it’s not to be forced, but eventually we start to find peace with these losses and peace with all of our human experiences. And it can take you 10 minutes, I don’t know anyone for whom is taken 10 minutes or it can take you, you know, 12 lifetimes. But that’s, that’s the ultimate, you know, goal. I think for most of us.

Victoria Volk  31:20
I want to get your thoughts on something because I read something today, and it really struck me. And it’s, I think it’s something that’s going to stick with me. And it’s often something I guess something I’ve wondered, but I never really like you know, we read something in the perfect timing.

Victoria Shaw  31:36
Right? Always.

Victoria Volk  31:38
So, I want to ask you, I want to get your perspective of this. So, I read that so people will say well, do you have to suffer in order to grow and then what I read was that by our own thoughts, we attract suffering like we put ourselves in positions and situations and circumstances it’s it’s like an addiction. Yeah, suffering. And one thing that I struggled with for over 30 years was feeling as though I am I’m just here to suffer. Oh, you know, because I’ve suffered for so long, like just in my own mind and my own thought process in my just, you know, all these different things and it’s like, Why do these things keep happening to me right over and over and so I want her I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Victoria Shaw  32:32
Alright, so for you specifically, if you don’t mind what I would say is if you can shift that belief system you’re already shifting it so it’s, it’s, it’s kind of a done deal, but maybe someone else who has that belief system will want to hear this to you know, understand that life is happening for me, not to me, and again, doesn’t mean that you have to like it, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be pissed, please have whatever feelings that you’re having, because that will help you release that belief system. But yeah, if we have a belief system, that life is about suffering, or that things are happening to me, meaning latest torturing me, life is against me, life is not against you, you know, there’s a higher part of yourself that planned every damn experience you have in your life for your own learning and growth, to help you remember the magnificence of who and what you really are. And is suffering necessary on that journey? No, is it the way that most of human life has worked up until now? Yeah. And you know, if we go back to Buddhists because we quoted the Buddha earlier, you know, what the Buddha would say is suffering is a mental construct, it’s all in your mind, it’s how you approach life and you create suffering by the way that you approach your life and the thoughts that you have and your resistance to that deep flow of life and just the fact that things are happening as they’re meant to happen. And again, you know, a spiritual bypass here would be to say, Well I have to be happy with everything No you are human my friend and it’s so it’s more about you know, being kind and sitting with that humaneness while at the same time holding that that broader perspective and so yes when we get into that victim mentality if that’s all we think we are and we just think life is just here to kick my ass and I this is how it goes and I don’t deserve more and we become resentful of it this can keep us stuck in more crap happening for us and more misery but the way out of that is not to kick yourself over the head even more the way out of it is to just notice Oh wow, you know, this is of course I would think this way given my life experience and everything I knew up until now and of course, now I’m starting to see glimmers that there could be something else and let me follow that and let me be as tight as heck to myself in that process as I explore this, and I allow that new awareness to come in for me, and then it will, I promise every single time.

Victoria Volk  34:43
You hit on something, I don’t know if you set it exactly, but like for me personally like gaining new knowledge, new tools, following the my intuition of what I needed to read what I needed to experience what I needed to I’ve drawn people circumstances, books, things to my life that I needed to ever get to a level of awareness that I have now about my emotional, inner climate.

Victoria Shaw  35:12
And everything happens in divine timing. So, you will always be led to those things that just the right time and then the more you’re open to it, and the more you start following, and the more you start listening to the inner wisdom, and they usually come as breadcrumbs, it doesn’t usually come the way your mind would like it like the complete answer all at once for the next 50 years, right. They’re usually little glimmers of try this, follow this, maybe you should go talk to that person, maybe it’s time for you to go visit your uncle, right? I mean, that was a profound experience that you had. But when we start following, and listening to these inner nudging things, they get louder, because we start to like, agree to, you know, co create our lives with our inner wisdom. And so more and more you will, you will be guided in more and more that guidance will lead you to a place of calm and peace and center. And if there are struggles to be had, they’ll be you know, streamlined for just the ones that you need to get the most, you know, bang out of your buck. And our inner wisdom will also show us how to navigate those, like struggles which everybody has, you know, the best way possible.

Victoria Volk  36:17
Yeah, gosh, I’m loving this conversation. What would be one thing that either others did, or that you found was helpful for you. When you probably just maybe before you found that intuitive? counselor? You know, or know, the doctor intuitive doctor, correct?

Victoria Shaw  36:38
Yeah, I mean, I found a lot of people. But yeah, before that particular experience, you know, I think there was a period where it was really helpful for me to connect with other people that were going through the same thing that I was, and having that same story, and you know, feeling those losses. And I think that that can be really important for people to feel heard by other people that are having a similar experience. But I also think that you don’t want to get some people, that’s where they get stuck. That’s where they get lost their identity becomes I’m the one who’s had trauma, I’m the mother who has lost her sense of identity, or, you know, are, I’m the person I’m the motherless child, right. And so we want to be really careful about the identities that we take on because once we identify with something, it becomes locked, it becomes part of our sense, our false sense of self. And it can keep us from growing and changing and continuing to align with our highest guidance and, and growing in this human container. So that was really helpful for me to feel heard. But I also think and to know that I wasn’t alone in this, but then there was also those other people that were starting to show me the way out of it, and the show me the way through it. And that’s a different thing. And so we just don’t want to get kind of locked into our pain stories. But again, that pain just wants to be heard. And for me, in that earlier phase of my journey, it was just so validating to have people go, you know, yeah, of course, you feel this way. And reading books about other moms that had felt that was really empowering and powerful, and helped me not feel like I was alone, which is, I think something a lot of people really want and need.

Victoria Volk  38:09
I tried to bring hope in the work that I do. When I’m communicating, I want there is another side to this, you know if if I can find it, so can you with, I mean, I’ve, I’ve heard just terrible stories of how people found in my work that I do grief recovery, and how it’s changed and transform their lives. But I see it though, on social media, too. It’s where it’s almost like, sometimes like when like traditional grief support groups where there’s no action, where it’s like you said, you’re just repeating the same story, I see that a lot online. It’s almost like a support group, but it’s online.

Victoria Shaw  38:50
Yeah, and it can be like after and it’s interesting, because a lot of people I’ve worked with through grief and particularly loss of loved ones will say or sometimes I work with a lot of special needs parents too. So that’s another form of grief when you’re grieving the loss of the child that you thought you were going to have. And every parent goes through that a little bit because you know, if we’re paying attention our kids are now not the idealized things that we imagined they would be before we had them but when you have a special needs child that’s even or chronically ill child that can be even more so. And people will say oftentimes, you know those support groups, you know, they they can feel so good at first but oftentimes when people are paying attention to a certain point they’re like I’m done with it. It’s over I’ve gotten as much as I could get from this now I’m ready for something more because they don’t want that to be their story for life. I’m the mom of a special needs child and that’s gonna be it forever right? We want we want to be heard through our human experiences but we also want that flexibility to grow and change and and know on the highest spiritual level and this may or may not resonate with your listeners, but I’m gonna say it anyway, know that that’s who you really are. That’s just the little cloaks that you’re wearing through various times of your human experience and so I think that that is super important that you know you don’t get lost in that.

Victoria Volk  40:09
I’m like Yep, amen I resonate with that. I like to look at grief is like a veil that we wear. And we it’s you can’t see the mirrors in front of you. And you can’t see yourself when you look in the mirror either.

Victoria Shaw  40:24
Right, but you don’t have to wear that veil forever, if you choose not to when you’re ready, just like other kinds of grieving, right, it’s fine to take that off. And it’s not a disservice, especially when you’re grieving loss of another human. You know, if a loved one, it’s not a disservice to your loved one to move forward. Right. And we didn’t talk about this yet. But it’s my belief that when we die, we go back to spirit form, we don’t go away, the soul is eternal. And I believe this mostly because I have that ability to connect with entities beings and spirits that are not new physical form. And so that it has been very validating to me through my own experience, but our loved ones, they want us to be happy sometimes, especially when it’s been a complicated human relationship. And sometimes, you know, we have that where we lose someone, but that relationship wasn’t perfect. And sometimes when they die, we either think we have to pretend like it was perfect to honor their their passing or, you know, worse yet, we can’t ever process our losses now or our grievances now, because they’re gone. Neither of those things are true, you can continue to do your work, even with those deceased loved ones after they’re out of their bodies. And in the work that I do, I often see that happening. And I sometimes see our deceased loved ones showing up to facilitate that work that we still need to do because they often have a broader perspective, once they’re not encumbered by their human human word. I don’t know if it’s coming through fallacies, frailties, whatever, you know, we don’t always see things perfectly crystal clearly while we are still in human form, so we can continue to work on stuff, after our loved ones his have passed, we can say everything that we wish that we had said to them when they were living when they’re deceased, and they will hear us and they will often hear us without the same, you know, defensiveness that they might have heard us when they were in human form. So sometimes it’s advantageous, that you know, we wait until they’re past to work through some of this stuff. And you know, honoring a relationship and honoring someone is honoring them and their human imperfection. So it’s okay, if you have mixed feelings about someone who’s passed, you can still love them, they can still love you, even if all of the details of that human relationship were imperfect.

Victoria Volk  42:35
Oh, this is so good. I’m so glad that we connected, you know, and I believe too, you know, as a kid, you know, I saw my dad in his casket and as a kid, I just, there was no conversation about death or grief or anything. And so, you know, he was put in the ground, and I thought that’s what happens when you die. You’re put in the ground. And I didn’t have never felt that spiritual connection. I never felt a spiritual connection to a higher being or much less to myself until probably 2014. Yeah, I mean, it just took me so long to come around.

Victoria Shaw  43:14
It’s normal and natural to sometimes we look back in our lives, and we think something’s wrong with us, because it took us so long. Again, remember, divine timing, and we get the memo. It’s just the right moment. And sometimes I’m someone who has a late wake her up in a lot of sense. And that’s okay, that’s beautiful, because I needed every experience that I had in my life to get to where I am now. And I’m grateful to everyone and you can’t force that kind of feeling. I just feel it naturally. But just know that that’s there. That you know, every experience that you’ve had in this human life is supporting you to this moment now whether whether that feels right or not. And you know, there’s no, it’s the human mind that wants to say there’s a particular timeline there isn’t. And we need every experience that we have, and it’s perfect. You know, timing, whenever whatever is happening now is exactly what’s supposed to be so I hope that helps.

Victoria Volk  44:10
No, and I can say that now. I fully believe that now and I do feel a higher connection to myself into you know, yeah, but yeah.

Victoria Shaw  44:19
It’s worth it, right?  You need, you need to get you to that place. And if you said probably to yourself, you know, 2030 years ago, listen, baby, this is the way you have to see things you probably would have like thrown a drink in your face. Right? You were because you weren’t ready.

Victoria Volk  44:36
I would have been drunk.

Victoria Shaw  44:40
Okay. Interesting that that particular image came through. Sorry for that. Its how the intuition
works.

Victoria Volk  44:47
Well, my life was a train wreck. So that very much was my story.

Victoria Volk  44:57
Yeah, I just it’s been a long track again when I was going straight

Victoria Shaw  45:03
Yeah and it’s it’s not meant to be and we often learn through these human experiences and you’ll be able to carry for and I’m sure you already do in the work that you do that understanding that you know even the trade rock can serve you it can serve you and it can get you there and again no part of human life is wasted and human experience is wasted it’s just that that judge everything.

Victoria Volk  45:27
So, what would you say is probably unhelpful things that people do for themselves or others who are looking to suffer who are looking to support others in grief in particular and maybe trauma as well.

Victoria Shaw  45:44
Yep. Unhelpful judging yourself judging how you’re having the experience judging yourself for judging yourself if you have that level of awareness right because it’s going to be different for everyone to whatever you’re feeling right now is just perfect for you and judgments going to shut down the process the other thing that can sometimes be unhelpful both for yourself as others is like that kind of you know spiritual bypassing kind of deal where you’re like I should feel grateful I should feel happy I should focus on the positives I should I should I should I should I should there’s no shoulds in the land of grieving there’s no there’s no shoulds in life really that service it should just judgment in disguise. And you know, again, you have to have your experience because Earth is an experiential realm we learn here by being human so be kind to yourself know whatever you’re experiencing is just right. If you have trouble being kind to yourself seek support find someone else to teach you and to be kind to you in the meantime and also it come through to say don’t try to go it alone. right a lot of times we believe that we got to do everything ourselves and that if we don’t do it ourselves it’s not good it’s not right but you know, this is Earth is a shared realm This is a shared journey. And so you know, it’s important to allow yourself to find and, and and connect with with significant others, be it friends, be it healers Be it helpers you don’t want to give your power away to those folks but you do want to know that you don’t have to do it alone and they’re supported every leg in the journey and if you open yourself up for it, it will always come could be a book could be a podcast could be in lots of different places you know, whatever your comfort zone is but you know be open to the fact that if you are open to that support support will always be there for you and you deserve that.

Victoria Volk  47:37
I can attest to that. Yeah, that was my experience. What would you say to someone listening to and I’m just as curious how to connect a lot departed loved one and then how to know when you are?

Victoria Shaw  47:53
Oh, I love that question. Okay, so connecting with your loved ones is a little bit like connecting with your intuition and that the first thing I’m going to say is Look, if you talk to your loved one they hear you okay and even if you’re mad at your loved one don’t worry about that because again, they don’t hear you with their ears like they did in human form if you had some grievances with your mom and now she passed away and you’re bitching at her you’re not going to get the same response back that you did when you were both in bodies and if you do that I promise you as your mind your mom is passed over she’s she’s not in that realm of pitching back at you and I hope that word was okay if not I can say it again in a cleaner language but um so that’s the first thing so but you can always talk to your loved ones they always hear you sometimes we have this feeling right if we don’t hear back right away or they loved us because we have that deep sense of loss and we feel that they’re not here and they’re not there they’re always even if you can’t feel them or see them or connect with them if you send it out there they’ll get the memo Okay, so So know that first and foremost that you can always talk to them and then if you imagine them talking back and that voice is loving and kind it is probably them if again they’re sounding like they’re beating you up or telling you how terrible you are or that’s probably the voice in your head. Because you know when our deceased loved ones move back into spirit form, they’re not so judgy anymore they’re not like perfected yet so again sometimes when people talk about spirit guides and they’re like it’s got to be my aunt Marge and I’m like she may be looking over you but your spirit guides actually are you know guidances of even higher levels that they’ve transcended the need to be in human form all together but like our once we leave the human body we do have a broader perspective and so you know, you’ll feel a loving kind energy so know that you can talk to them know that they’re listening know that you’re probably not imagining it nine out of 10 times you’re not imagining it. Oftentimes our loved ones will show us signs in the environment and people just know and if it brings you pleasure to think that you know every time you see a bird, it’s your mom, you know, coming back to say hello, and then do just go with that. You know, don’t overthink it, like enjoy that. It’s beautiful. And by the way, if you have that thought that You’re helping your deceased loved ones find a way to connect with you, which is what they want to do. So you know, if you imagine if you believe that the birds are that way, even if they didn’t get that idea yet, they’ll start doing that for you anyway. They’ll be like, oh, okay, that’s how you want me to communicate with you. I’ll be a bird. So it’s, it’s magical. And you asked one other question, I’m trying to find that in my brain. So hold on, Oh, you didn’t ask this. But this also comes through another way that our loved ones love to communicate with us is in our dreams. Because when we are in the sleep state, our minds are quiet, and we’re much more receptive. So if you dream that a loved one came and gave you a hug, or I used to always dream about my grandfather, that he was like, still alive. And then I’d be like, what, wait, he’s dead. I recognize now those were times that he was visiting me in my dreams and just saying, hello.

Victoria Volk  50:48
I don’t recall ever having one of those dreams.

Victoria Shaw  50:58
It’s different for everyone. We have a sense to write that our love. I mean, if there’s a lot of unfinished business, that our loved ones can’t hear us, if they’re not here, that they’re not, you know, why are they speaking to me, that’s a sign for you to heal your own grief. And that place of feeling abandoned by them, or whatever feelings came up at the time of the loss because they are there. And you know, sometimes healing that too well will help you make that connection. And it’s important to know too, and I hope this makes sense that you know, everyone’s on this human journey. And when we leave our bodies, we continue, you know, with a little bit of school about processing and unpacking what went on in our human life. And so you here on Earth, when you are working through whatever grievances or traumas or issues that you have with that loved one, will help them on their journey as well. And so you know, someone that leaves their body too soon, or leaves their family too soon, you know, like, they they may go out thinking like, Oh my gosh, like, what’s wrong with me that I can’t stick around and support my family, and the family might get the memo? Oh, my gosh, you know, this person left me too soon, they abandon me, right? Like as you work through your issues that work through those as well. And all of those things are ultimately misbeliefs. Because at the end of the day, again, everything happens exactly as it should. But it doesn’t always feel that way, and it doesn’t have.

Victoria Volk  52:17
I can speak from experience. And when I was with my uncle, I felt the most connected to my dad and I ever had.

Victoria Shaw  52:26
But that’s because it was your dad prompting you because he had, he had unfinished business with that family line. And he really wanted before your uncle passed, for you to be the conduit of connecting reconnecting all of you guys back together, and he wanted to help you with that. for him. It was important for him it was important for your uncle, and it was important for you. So, he was very much prompting you and guiding you and he says good job at listening if he wants you came through just a little. But I think the longer conversation would be for another day and another context.

Victoria Volk  53:06
I’m just like, well, I got chills.

Victoria Shaw  53:10
Okay, and so that shows for listeners another way that you would know chills are amazing body signal when you feel that in your body chills is one of my favorite intuitive markers. Victoria because you can’t make it up. Right? You can’t make that up. When we feel the chills. It’s like oh my god. And I have a colleague and friend, she gets the chills for me. Like whenever we’re together and I asked her something, she’ll be chills, chills. And it’s like such it’s so validating. So yes, that’s another way that you’ll know it’s sometimes you’ll have that full body experience that you can’t make up and that’s a marker that Yes, he did come through and he’s around you all the time. And sometimes it’s our own grief that blocks our ability to connect with our loved ones and to know that they’re there to feel their love, but that’s okay, too. It’s all part of the process.

Victoria Volk  53:54
I would agree with that. Yeah. What I’ve been learning, and I actually got chills earlier in this interview.

Victoria Shaw  54:03
Pay attention to that. It’s so powerful.

Victoria Volk  54:06
Oh man, this is so so so great.

Victoria Shaw  54:09
Thank you

Victoria Volk  54:10
Is there anything else you feel the listeners need to hear?

Victoria Shaw  54:17
Yeah, I think just that grief is a natural normal part of life. And you know, sometimes we feel like we’re the only one it’s happening to and that is happening to us like there’s something wrong with us for either the way that we’re responding to the grief or that you know, we had the loss in the first place or you know, all of the above Be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself. No, it’s a it’s a process of life but it’s not fun. It’s not easy. But it’s also can be if you if you take the challenge and amazing conduit to transformation and growth and in that it’s a really, really good and powerful thing. And that nothing in life, like we said before is wasted and so it’s the more that we bring the light of consciousness to our human experiences that we can grow and change and transform.

Victoria Volk  55:04
Amen, I agree so good. So, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Victoria Shaw  55:11
Alright, so I have a couple of different things going on I do one to one sessions with folks all over the world and also intuitive counseling sessions in Connecticut where I’m a licensed professional counselor. And to do either of those things you would find me at my website which is Victoria Shaw, intuitive calm, so pretty easy My name plus the word intuitive calm and then I also have a lot of free offerings and teachings that I love to do on my website I have this is not free, it’s a paid course I have a paid course on activating your intuition which is a self paced online course with some tools and strategies to help you leverage the power of your inner wisdom and tap into your intuition more I also have a podcast which that is completely free intuitive connection podcast where I talk all about tools and strategies to awaken your intuition and all topics, intuition and spirituality plus I have a lot of amazing amazing guests and I’ve also started doing some fun readings on the show which has been really cool as well because oftentimes, you know, we we hear ourselves through other people’s stories, and let’s see what else I have a pretty active presence on instagram. Victoria, Shaw intuative is my handle and on Facebook and I am in the process of building an amazing Facebook community intuitive connection community where I’ve been doing a lot of free teachings, weekly readings and visits with all of the guests from our podcast episodes so that is a really fun place to find me as well so that’s intuitive connection community on Facebook and I think that covers it.

Victoria Volk  56:49
Lots of places to find you. That’s awesome. Thank you thank you thank you so much for being a guest on my podcast and I have no doubt that what people needed to hear came through today and that it’ll be beneficial thing I really enjoyed though.

Victoria Shaw  57:07
Thank you, its my pleasure and my joy as well. Thank you so much.

Victoria Volk  57:12
All right. Well, if you love this episode, I would love for you to give Victoria Shaw’s episode a five star review. Tune in next week for another episode and until then, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.