Childhood Grief, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Mental Health, Murder, Parent Loss, Podcast |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In this week’s episode, I am honored to host Susan Snow, a beacon of hope for anyone navigating the treacherous waters of trauma and loss.
Susan is an inspiring figure as an author, international speaker, and resiliency coach. Susan bravely opened up about her experience following the tragic death of her father, an LA police detective. Her candid discussion on coping with PTSD before it was widely recognized sheds light on the silent battles many face.
In this raw conversation:
- Susan shares her firsthand experience dealing with PTSD following the violent loss of her father at age 17.
- She discusses how the lack of mental health awareness in the ’80s left her struggling alone with grief.
- We delve into how witnessing gun violence impacted Susan, leading to sleep deprivation and suicidal ideation.
- The podcast touches upon how trauma can affect familial relationships, highlighting Susan’s strained dynamic with her mother post-tragedy.
- We learn about Susan’s path to resilience: from wearing an “emotional mask” to eventually finding a therapist who understood severe trauma.
- A pivotal moment occurs during our discussion when she recounts watching coverage of the Columbine High School shootings in 1999, which triggered flashbacks — illustrating how PTSD symptoms can persist over time without proper help.
Susan’s tale teaches us something vital: In sharing our stories openly without fear or shame, we permit others to do the same. We foster conversations that might be someone else’s lifeline or inspire them towards help they’ve been reluctant to seek out themselves.
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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Healing Through Trauma: The Journey of Resilience
In the labyrinth of life’s challenges, few experiences cut as deeply as trauma and loss. For Susan Snow, this journey began on a fateful Halloween night in 1985 when her world was shattered by the loss of her father, an event that would shape her understanding of grief and resilience for years to come.
Susan’s story is not just one of heartache; it’s a beacon for those navigating the murky waters of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), mental health struggles, and personal growth. As we unpack Susan’s narrative, we find invaluable lessons embedded within—lessons about vulnerability, self-care, and the transformative power of therapy.
The Silent Battle Within
Imagine carrying a weight so heavy that even your closest loved ones can’t see it. This was Susan’s reality following the traumatic death of her father. In an era where conversations around mental health were scarce at best, she found herself isolated with emotions like guilt and shame while dealing with PTSD—a term barely recognized at the time.
For many like Susan who have faced similar battles silently amidst family dynamics fraught with complexities such as narcissism or addiction issues—the path to healing can seem dauntingly out-of-reach.
A Trigger Point Towards Recovery
It wasn’t until another tragedy struck—the Columbine High School shooting—that Susan’s suppressed traumas resurfaced intensely enough to push her towards seeking help. It highlights how external events can trigger deep-seated emotional responses from past traumas—an important reminder that our journeys are ongoing rather than neatly concluded chapters.
Her husband played a pivotal role in advocating for therapy—a step which led Susan to eventually connect with a therapist specializing in severe trauma. This partnership became foundational in validating her experience and providing hope during what seemed like insurmountable times.
Breathing Life into Healing
One practical tool that emerged from therapy was box breathing—a technique that helped regulate Susan’s nervous system during anxiety spikes. She emphasizes allowing oneself to feel anxious moments instead of resisting them; employing controlled breathing as both an anchor and compass through tumultuous emotions serves as practical advice for anyone grappling with anxiety or stress-related disorders.
Box breathing represents more than just breath control—it signifies taking command over one’s internal state amidst external chaos.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk: Welcome to another episode of Greeting Voices. If this is your first time listening, thank you for being here. And if you’ve listened before, thank you for coming back. Today, my guest is Susan Snow, she is an author, international speaker, and resiliency coach. Her message of hope and healing through trauma and loss comes from her vulnerability, which allows others a safe space to tell their own story of trauma and loss. And thank you so much for your time and being here today and sharing your story.
Susan Snow: Thanks for having me.
Victoria Volk: And your book title is very to the point Can you share that story, please? But also, I have a quest a follow-up question to the book title.
Susan Snow: So Sure. Absolutely. Well, the book came out and that title was specific because I am the daughter of a Los Angeles police detective who was ambushed while picking up my then six year old brother on Halloween of nineteen eighty five. And my mom and I were called to the school and witnessed his body in the aftermath. So the other side of the gun It was my side. It was my side of what gun violence, you know, takes away from you. Without getting political, you know, it was more on the mental health side.
Victoria Volk: And when you when this happened, you were seventeen on the gas of adulthood. And you’re old enough to recognize that what happened. Right? And process what happened to some to some degree?
Susan Snow: I really struggled. You know, this was the eighties. It was mid eighties. There was no talk of mental health back then. And there definitely was very little known about PTSD. What I witnessed was horrific. And I didn’t know how to process. And unfortunately, that night was so chaotic. There was just so much going on. And when we showed up, there was so much going on, but we still didn’t know until we actually saw this scene. All I saw were officers coming towards me with tears in their eyes. And I didn’t know what that meant. I mean, even when I’m the one that received the call at home, I was getting ready to go a Halloween party or hoping to go to a Halloween party, and it was a week night. So my dad had already said, nope. Not doing it. But I was bound to determine being seventeen, and I got that call from a woman from my brother’s school. And all she said was there was a drive by shooting, and my dad was involved. So even at that point, I didn’t know what to expect when we arrived at the school. And even that night, after I witnessed what I witnessed to the officers, you know, my mom was screaming and Iwas focused on an ambulance that was did still in the street, and I couldn’t understand why they weren’t helping my dad. I just it was not processing at all. That what I was seeing was that he was gone. It was it was a a very surreal kind of feeling like an auto body experience kind of And then when we got into the school, we went into a office. And I sat down and my mom was kind of ushered out of the room. I believe was some detectives. I didn’t know where my brother was.
I didn’t know if he was hurt. If he was at the hospital, like, I knew nothing. And as I was sitting there, there were two ladies that were talking. And the one said to the other, yes, unfortunately, mister Williams is deceased, and that’s when it hit me and my world cracked. And I just wanted to run out of there. You know? I talked to a lot of people who have had loss. And this seems to be kind of a feeling of I just wanna run away from this nightmare, especially when it’s something that happens. And occurs quickly, but you just wanna run. And I wanted to run and run and run and run and not stop. But my legs were like cement. I couldn’t move. Physically, could not move. And my mom came back into the room and she said, I’m sending you with a neighbor. And even though I wanted To leave, I wanted to run, the seventeen year old girl needed my family. I needed to be in a space where I felt like I wasn’t alone. And instead, I got sent to the neighbor, and I don’t blame her. I mean, there was a lot of chaos, like I said, going on. And people handle things differently in chaos. But that night really impacted me because I felt like I was not important in this family unit situation and all the focus and so be it was on my brother because my dad’s last thing that he did on earth was to save his life and tell him to duck down in the truck because he knew what was coming. So, you know, for me, I was having to go to this neighbor and this poor neighbor had known my parents forever. So she was trying to wrap her head around what was happening. And my environment changed because my quiet street now was covered in media vans and police cars, and we had helicopters we could hear over the house. And it was crazy, you know. So I didn’t get to grief. By my like, I had no privacy on the grieving process at all. Like, There was always people around. People I didn’t know. And you know, I had my boyfriend at the time who I’m now married to. And he was nineteen. So we were both children, you know, and we’re trying to figure these things out. Like, how do you navigate this? So Yeah. It was it was a huge pivotal pivotal time in my life. And Yeah.
I
Victoria Volk: did I wanna backpedal to my statement about that you can process it to some degree. And what I meant was when I said that because I’m a child of loss. My father died when I was a kid and
Susan Snow: You get that. Do that.
Victoria Volk: Yeah. So I get that. And when people say, oh, children are resilient, they’ll bounce back. Like, that drives me crazy.
Susan Snow: Me too.
Victoria Volk: Yeah. So what I meant when I said that and I should have said it differently was as opposed to like a younger child. Right?
Susan Snow: Oh, yeah.
Victoria Volk: You have a greater understanding
Susan Snow: Yeah.
Victoria Volk: Of the weight
Susan Snow: Yeah.
Victoria Volk: Of what’s happening. Yeah. Right? I still really under like, a child mean, like, I understood when my dad was dying of cancer. Like, Iand when he died, I knew he died.
Like, Iunderstood that. Like, he was gone forever. Right? But to understand, like, the impact that that was gonna have, the rest of my life, that I couldn’t even run my head around. Right?
Susan Snow: Right.
Victoria Volk: But as a seventeen year old and you know you’re going into adulthood and you you have an understanding of this is changing everything for me. Right? And that’s that’s the weight of the trauma and what you witnessed and all of that. Did your brother survive?
Susan Snow: He did. He survived. I didn’t see him until the next day. What I was told was that he was in he was questioned by police immediately. So he was still at the school when I got sent away. But I didn’t get to see him. I could hear him crying. In his room, but there was nothing left of me. To be able to go and console him. And I just assumed my mom would be there and do it. And he would be surrounded with people because he was so little. So I really didn’t see my brother until the next day and I was able to hug him. And, you know, just let him know that I was there for him and I love him and you know, dad loved him and, you know, so but it was it was a hard time. It was, you know, I My relationship with my mom was not a hundred percent when this happened. We had a strained relationship for many years.
And I didn’t realize that until I started to write my book. You know? So when all this happened, my dad was always like the go between the mediator. The voice of reason, and now he’s gone. And so not only was I processing the fact that my dad was gone, but then I was processing the fact that how was I going to manage that relationship with my mom?
So it was just a lot. It was a lot for me and, you know, I was living, as you well know, with grief, you live in a fog. I was living in a fog. I couldn’t sleep. I was total sleep deprivation.
And I ambeknownst to me, I had suicidal ideation. I wanted to be with my dad and I didn’t know how that would happen. But I longed to be with my dad. And I had days where I just couldn’t get out of bed, so the depression hit me. My sense of security was gone because they didn’t catch the men. So the men who were involved in this in my dad’s murder. My dad was a detective. So he had testified that day in one of his criminal court cases, and the guy who was the defendant was out on bail. And it gave him an opportunity. But it didn’t it took them six days to find them. So for six days, we had police presence all over our house, front yard, backyard, everything. I had bodyguards. So anywhere I went, I had bodyguards. And it was just crazy, like a whole different world. I had a pretty normal teenage life before all of this. And that was gone. And I had to grow up very, very quickly. So it was just it was a lot to process a lot. And I didn’t have the tools, you know. Ijust I didn’t have the tools at the time to manage my anxiety.
So I always felt like I was I even though I wanted to be with my dad, I was always, like, I felt like, you know, I’m having a heart attack because the panic attacks and and the feelings of it. And I would have to just try to squash him most of the time Iwould just talk myself out of it. But now I know not to do that because it just extends the attack. But it went on for a while. And I you know, and my mom now that I realized my mom has a narcissistic personality, And so her focus was totally her. And you know, we all process trauma and grief differently. And she chose to drink. And so that felt alienating to me as well. But that was her coping skill, and I’m not, you know, like I said, everybody deals with trauma and loss differently.
Victoria Volk: That’s another level of grief. Right? And then your younger brother is growing up in that environment too.
Susan Snow: Mhmm. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, it’s a it did take them about a month. I was at the point where if you pointed me in a direction, that’s the direction I would go. You know, Ihad no advocacy for myself. Ididn’t know how to verbalize. Ididn’t even tell anybody what was going on in my head, and I didn’t know how. I had guilt and shame and felt like if I put more on someone else, it was too much, so I just kinda just dealt with it. You know? And My mom came to me about a month after my dad was killed, and he she said that the Los Angeles police department the advocate said that they wanted to put us in therapy. And I didn’t know anything about therapy. In fact, in the 80s, I thought if you went to a therapist, You were crazy. But being, you know, subservient, I was like, Okay. Because that’s that’s the direction that you’re gonna push me. That’s the direction I’ll go. And I met with this therapist. I had this feeling like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be the adult. This is gonna be the one that’s gonna help me, that’s gonna make me feel better. Right? But unfortunately, I think that the trauma that I experienced was too much for him, he wasn’t, what I call, trauma competent. And he didn’t wanna ask the questions, and he didn’t. For an entire year, Ali talked about every single session was my relationship with my mother, my relationship with my brother, my boyfriend in school. And that was it.
Victoria Volk: And in the room.
Susan Snow: Nothing. And people like when I tell people that they go, What? And I said, yeah, because I think, honestly, he was afraid to ask the questions. Right? Because, you know, maybe he didn’t have the answers or he didn’t know what to do.
So
Victoria Volk: So have you ever even asked you, are you having thoughts of harming yourself or others? Not at once.
Susan Snow: Not once. And every session I’d be like before the session, I was like, today’s the day. Today’s the day. He’s gonna figure it out because Iwas a mess. Like, I was a mess, but I just didn’t know how to verbalize. Most seventeen year olds back then didn’t know how to verbalize our feelings. And most of the time, you know, at Gen X, we were we were told to, you know,
Victoria Volk: suck it up buttercup.
Susan Snow: Buck it up buttercup. Yeah. Exactly. It wasn’t it wasn’t an open conversation. So an entire year went by, and the last day that I saw him, he looked at me and said, Susan, you’re a well rounded young lady, and you’re gonna be fine for the rest of your life, and I don’t need to see you anymore. So that was that. And I walked out of that last session thinking, okay, I am so I’ve cracked I’ve cracked. I’m I’m crazy. I I’m just gonna have to live with this pain for the rest of my life. Even a professional can’t help me, and that was my mindset.
You know, I lived in fight or flight from then on? It was just that’s how it was. And, you know, and and and my my boyfriend, he didn’t He didn’t know what to do either. So I just I struggled a lot. And then on top of that, you know, as the years went on, you know, the the time with my mom and living with my mom became very unbearable. I couldn’t do it anymore because I watched her spiraling and couldn’t do anything about it. And I had this feeling of, like, I’m the oldest, and this is my responsibility. And I just had to, like I think even back then, I knew a little bit about boundaries without knowing about boundaries. And I just drew a line in the sand and said, that’s it. At eighteen, I’m moving out. I can’t do this. And I did it. I moved out.
Victoria Volk: What did your early twenties your life look like after that into your early twenties?
Susan Snow: I you know, I had some peace being out on my own even though my mom told the local police department, so they were constantly driving by my apartment. Which, you know, you just can’t get away from it. But I married my boyfriend when I was twenty one. And in hindsight, you know, both of us agree that we were too young to get married. But because we had been together for so many years and we’d lived with each other for a little bit, that that was the next step. But even you know, all these years, like, I was living in fight or flight. So is he? He may not have witnessed what I saw that night, but from the moment I told him that night when he came because the the neighbor called him and told him to come to her house. The minute I told him, that was trauma. He’d only known my dad for three months. We’d only been dating three months. Three months and this nineteen year old guy, most guys would have been like, bye bye. This is too much. Too much. But he stuck it out. And I think he stuck it out because he knew my mom was going to do what she did, which is kind of turtle within herself. And I needed a friend. I needed some sort of support. And I’m grateful for that. You know, but it was, you know, it was it’s our journey too, you know, and it’s I don’t think I would be here if my husband wasn’t. In my life, especially at that point. You know? So but, you know, we’ve we’ve been together almost thirty nine years now, and it’s just nuts to me. I mean, we’ve had our we we it’s it’s if you read it in the book. If you read it in the book, there was a divorce in the middle, but we are together. And married in for the second time. But yeah. I mean, it it’s just you know, grief is is a crazy thing because it you know, it it comes and it goes. And the nice thing about having my husband is that he now knows my triggers. I hate that word, but he knows he knows and he knows when that’s gonna send me into the grief. You know, so it’s helpful. I have the tools now, but he he does too. Through watching me through the years. And that’s really important.
Victoria Volk: When I think you raise a good point in that the ripples of grief, it’s the impact it has on you, but also I mean, the people around you, when you don’t have the tools, right, and you can combust at any moment or, you know, explode into a fit of rage or anger. The people around you feel like they’re living and walking on egg shells.
Susan Snow: Yep.
Victoria Volk: That’s the ripples of getting And so when people think, oh, it’s not affecting me. I’m dealing with it. I’m just sweeping it under the rug. I’m not gonna talk about it. If you are getting angry about someone not replacing the toilet paper roll or, you know, refilling the salt shaker, whatever it is. Right? Like these silly things that can make us angry when we are just like you said, walking in a fog. Well, and yet it’s like these a thousand paper cuts. Right?
Susan Snow: Exactly. Well, I will tell you I got really good, and I talk about this all the time. Igot really good with wearing my emotional mask. And what that is is, you know, when I was young, after it happened, people would say things like you’re strong. You’re brave.
You’re gonna be fine. And that’s what I wore. So anytime anything came up, I was like, put on the mask, I’m fine. I’m strong. I’m this. Right? But underneath, I was a mess. But what I put out outwardly was something that was different. And so that’s why I call it the mass. Because nobody can see what all the turmoil is inside. My husband had a way of knowing when that mask was coming on, and that was the difference. But it took me many, many years to get rid of that mask. Many, many years. And you know, fourteen to be exact. We we were married. We got we had two children. We had two children. We decided we were gonna leave Southern California. I always lived with this safety issue. Because it was my dad’s death was a planning of his death for months. Before he died, before they killed him. I always looked behind my shoulder all the time. Nighttime was extremely stressful for me because my dad was killed at night at the night at the, you know, like, five forty And when we got an opportunity to move to Denver, Colorado, that’s we jumped on it. And we moved in ninety seven and then I was working as a hairdresser at the time. And I was working at a salon that was close to Littleton, Colorado. And I on April twentieth of nineteen ninety nine, I was working and I took a break, I went into the backroom and turned on the TV, and all the coverage of the Columbine high school shootings. Were happening. And as I sat and I watched it, obviously, my colleagues were having a reaction to it. Shock you know, sadness, all that. But for me, I saw the school. I saw the kids that were my own age. I saw the ambulances. The police cars and I started to have flashbacks. I turned pale white. What is a ghost? Started getting clammy. I could feel my fingers tingling. I knew it was happening. I was having a panic attack. And I did not tell my colleagues my story so they had no idea why I was having this visceral reaction, and I didn’t either. Because I was told I was gonna be fine for the rest of my life, and that stuck with me. So as this was all going on, I tried to calm myself down and then I did what I always did and I put that emotional mask gone. And I went out and I did my clients and everybody was obviously very upset. But I went about my day like it didn’t affect me. The minute I walked through those doors, though, to drive home.
All of those emotions came flooding back. And I was I spiraled. I was terrified now because now I’m a mom of two small kids. And I wanted to leave this planet. Part of me did. The other part of me was terrified to leave my children. And this happened for two days. And when I got home one day, my husband met me at door and he said, you have two choices because he knew it was a slippery slope. He knew it. He said either you get help today or I’m putting you in a hospital. And I threw up the white flag and I said, okay, I’ll I’ll go to the doctor. And I went to the doctor, and a regular physician, and he immediately put me on antidepressants because that’s what they do.
Victoria Volk: Of course, they do. They’re not trained psychologists or therapists.
Susan Snow: No. And then he handed me a card. And he said, I want you to make an appointment for this therapist. And I literally laughed at him in his face. And I said, I did this fourteen years ago. And it didn’t help me then? What makes you think this is gonna help me now? And he looked me and he said, you have no choice. You have no choice. So I said, okay, fine. And I made the appointment, and I’m so grateful I did because this therapist specialized in severe trauma, and she knew all about PTSD. So in five minutes, of having a conversation with her. She looked at me and she said and I described everything I went through at seventeen and everything that I was currently dealing with. And she said, Susan, she said everything you’ve gone through since you were seventeen years old. Is a hundred percent normal because you have PTSD. And I kind of like sat back in my chair because I was confused. I went, wait a minute. I’m not in the military. I didn’t go to war. And she said, well, She said anyone who has gone through trauma can experience PTSD. But what you what you need to know is that PTSD isn’t something that goes away. It’s something you learn to manage. And those words were like, Oh my goodness. I always describe it as the sky opening up and rainbow shot shooting out of him because I felt like I wasn’t crazy, and I had hope, and I had it. An adult that was gonna guide me in this journey and help me heal. And I just I felt so grateful in that moment. But she had her work cut out for her. Definitely.
Victoria Volk: Thank you for sharing that. And I think one thing that came to my mind as I was hearing you talk about your experience with the PTSD and stuff is and let me ask you this from what you’ve learned about PTSD. Is it kind of like the pendulum can swing where you’re maybe it’s like all the cells in your body are just like all at once, like like you’re it’s almost like you’re how do I wanna explain this? Like, your energy is really amped up or the pendulum can swing the other way where you’re completely detached. Yes.
So Pete, I just want to
Susan Snow: Answer is yes.
Victoria Volk: I just want to clarify for people listening who are unfamiliar with the symptoms of PTSD. It doesn’t just look like your experience.
Susan Snow: Oh, yeah. And everybody like PTSD is not a one size fits all. Right? So everybody has different reactions for different things. So for me, for example, anytime there was like a shooting of some sort, It would take me right back to that day and all the feelings I had. So the anxiety, I would be extremely anxious and then extremely sad. Right? Some people just get very anxious or on edge. Some people just go into a deep depression. Some people become suicidal. There’s just a a very variance of things that happen to you. And so for myself, when I say she had her work cut out for me, is she decided that it was going to be beneficial to start out small. And not overwhelm me. So the one thing that I was struggling with at that very moment is sleep. And if you don’t have sleep and you have PTSD, It just exacerbates everything. So she really wanted me to get rest. But I told her nighttime was the worst because and I’m sure there’s people out there that are, like, Yep. When you start to rest, your brain just turns on. My brain would turn on, it would go straight to the darkness. So I would be terrified to shut my eyes. Because I thought I was going to be enveloped in the darkness and would not be able to come out of it. So she said, okay, here’s what we’re going to do. You’re going to journal at night. And I kinda looked at her funny because I’m like, that sounds a little dumb. Like, Really simple too. Right? Right. Yeah. Like, really, this is gonna make a big difference for me. And she’s like, you know what?
Just give it a week. I’m gonna give you a couple of prompts to write. If you wanna write, you can do it through music. You can do it through art. I don’t care how you do it, but just get all that stuff out of your head before you go to sleep. And I said, okay. So for a week, I had a little a little tablet next to my bed. And I would write down all the stuff that was swirling around in there on the paper. And at first, I was like, oh, but my spelling was wrong, and my You were judging it. Yeah. And, you know, when I called her, she’s like, Susan. This isn’t a lesson of like English. You just have to write. Right? Just like write it. It doesn’t matter. If it’s spelled right, it doesn’t even it doesn’t matter. Just get it on a paper. I said, okay. Fine.
So for an entire week, I did that. And And the crazy thing that happened is I fell asleep. I started to sleep. Because I was no longer anxious, I was no longer in that, you know, darkness when I slept. And I thought, oh, this stuff works.
Victoria Volk: And typing it I’ll say this too. I’ll just add this for people listening. Handwriting is the key.
Susan Snow: Yep.
Victoria Volk: Not typing on a laptop or anything like that. Yeah. Right? That’s what connects the brain to your heart.
Susan Snow: Absolutely. Yep. And yeah. So I physically wrote it. I physically wrote it.
But like I said, you know, some people people can do art. They can draw pictures. They can pick up a guitar and start writing a you know, like, just singing it out, like, whatever you have to do to get it out. And like I said, there’s no one’s size fits all. And so that was the first thing that she started me on.
And as we started attacking every single symptom, My next symptom that I dealt with was anxiety, and I had dealt with this forever And, you know, and I told her, I said, it’s exhausting, physically exhausting to my body. To continue to have a panic attack after panic attack after panic attack. So she started to teach me breath work. And breathing techniques. And the first the very first breathing technique that I learned was called box breathing. And I still do it to today. You know, I actually teach it. So, you know, it was changing my nervous system and it was changing my state, you know, state the state of my my being. And so I started to learn as I felt the triggers of anxiety, I would know. Okay.First, I gotta let it happen. I can’t fight it. Because when you fight it, it doesn’t go away or it’ll stop and then it’ll start and then it’ll stop and it’ll start. So I’ve got to just tell myself, I’m okay. You know, this is gonna be alright. I’m gonna live through this. And then so that I don’t go into another one then start the box breathing and really change the state of mind. And so she just each thing, she just kept attacking each thing that I was dealing with. And it was unbelievable. But here’s the really important thing that is over and above all it is the most important thing in the lesson that I learned. Was I had to be able to one trust her because I had to be the most vulnerable that I could be in order to do this work. And if I didn’t feel that, I wouldn’t have healed in the way that I did. And that’s really important for people to understand is that if you go to a therapist, when They need to be trauma competent. They need to understand your type of trauma and know how to help you heal through it. But you have to have that feeling of safety, of you can be a hundred percent vulnerable and go there with those people. And know that they are going to respect you, that they are going to guide you in a way that you need to be guided. So because I hear a lot, people say, oh, therapy didn’t work for me. Well, it’s because you didn’t find the right therapist. Because when you do and the work is done, that’s that’s when you see the real healing.
Victoria Volk: Well, in the distinction too, and look at the contrast of the first therapist versus the second therapist. The second therapist was giving you like homework. Right? Yep. You had action to take. Yep. That’s the difference. That’s why support groups, if you’re not taking action, they don’t work. Yeah, it make you feel better for a short period of time, but it’s not long lasting. It’s not moving you forward in a positive way in your life. Like therapy, like talk therapy, continually talking about the same things as you shared, it makes you feel better for the short period of time. Right? But then the next time you’re talking about the same things again. Right? But I think the difference is this action. Taking action.
Susan Snow: Yeah. Actually, yeah. Because she would give me something to do And then ask me, like, how did that affect you? What it you know, how did you feel after that? You know?
Did you feel relief? Did you not? Like, do we need to tweak something? You know? And it was and that’s why I tell people it’s not a one size fits all. What happened for me and what I used worked for me. It may not work for you. There’s so many modalities out there right now. You know, and you just have to find what works for you. And don’t be a soul
Victoria Volk: resonates with you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Susan Snow: Yep. Absolutely. So and I tell people, like, you will know in the first five minutes of meeting someone. Especially a therapist if you feel comfortable. If you don’t, find another one.
You know? This your healing, and your journey is your journey. It’s not theirs. And so it’s important for you to be your own advocate. And if you feel like you’re not getting the right help or you’re frustrated because you’re not going in the right direction, then find another therapist. It’s okay. Everybody has to find their right fit.
Victoria Volk: I’m a certified grief specialist and what I learned in my training is that and me personally my story is that and maybe you resonate with this. Is that trauma Trauma happens, but grief is what’s left.
Susan Snow: Yep.
Victoria Volk: The grief that’s left.
Susan Snow: Yep. And you’re grieving a lot of different things. Like a lot of different things. I mean, for me, I was not just grieving my dad. I was grieving my life. I was grieving my relationship. I was grieving my childhood. I was grieving not having a mom in the way that I need it, you know, the support system. I was grieving watching my both of my, you know, my mom and my brother took a different road than I did. Now my brother is doing amazing now. But when he was younger, he took, you know, a rough road, and I was grieving that. You know, I was grieving not being able to be the sister that he needed because I had to put boundaries down. You know, and so there was just the grief evolves actually, you know, as time goes on, you’re grieving for different things. And so things will come up, you know. And I, at this point, I have no contact with my mother. And it’s okay. Because what I realized was that that relationship was very toxic. And I spent a lot of time in shame and guilt because I was healing and she was not. And I felt like as the oldest and as the daughter that it was my responsibility, to help her heal. But what I had to realize and my book actually helped me realize is that It’s not my responsibility. Everybody is their own individual person. And so even though she’s my mother, it’s still her own responsibility for her own life. And the choices that she makes. So when I wrote the book, I figured, you know, I was doing this to heal myself, but also in the process of it because I had so much fear. It was terrifying to be this raw and this vulnerable with strangers. I’m putting it out there, but I had fear of safety, repercussions, you know, because I’m putting myself out there. Are these men gonna find me kind of thing? I had fear about, you know, is this going to somehow blow up my marriage again because I talk about some very serious things that we went through. In the book because it was traumatic. And the relationship with my mom Is it going to open a conversation, or is it going to completely destroy whatever is left of the relationship? And it did the latter. But in all of that fear, I had to find a purpose Why was I writing this book? Who was it going to benefit? And that’s who I put in front of me. The faces of the people that need to hear my message to know that they’re not alone and that other people go through things and they find resiliency through it. Brief doesn’t go away. It comes back in weird ways. But when you have the tools to move through it, and you know the people to look forward to help you support you, it makes a huge difference. And so that was what I did is I just focused on the people that were out there in the world. That needed to hear, hope. And I, you know and so with it having this effect on my relationship with my mom, I actually feel at peace and I feel okay. And sometimes that is the best thing. And I tell people, you know, if you’re in my situation, if you’re in that situation, sometimes best thing for you is to find your peace and protect it.
Victoria Volk: Well, and make peace with the choice that you made. Right? It’s making peace with the choice that you made.
Susan Snow: Yep. Chaz two. Yeah.
Victoria Volk: This relationship and I’m going to make peace with that.
Susan Snow: Yeah. And actually, she’s the one that severed it.
Victoria Volk: Oh. Is that Is the last with your mother, is that the other loss that you were describing on your website?
Susan Snow: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s It’s hard because that night, I felt, and even my brother says the same thing, that we lost both parents. Because we lost our dad, but my mom lost her identity. And she She just turdled. She just she to this day, if you meet her, she’ll tell you in the first five minutes who she is. That she’s the widow of my father because that’s her end all be all. Right? That’s that’s her identity. And that’s fine, and that’s the choice that she makes. But I feel like watching that both of us watching that all these years has been hard because it’s like we always wanted my mom to be happy. We always wanted my mom to have this beautiful life, finding love again, finding happiness again, and and we watched her. Exactly. And, I mean, she has no relationship with my kids.
Victoria Volk: And that’s another layer of grief.
Susan Snow: Mhmm. So that’s, you know and what let’s and I say, like grief comes up in different ways throughout your life. And so now I literally, last year, realized that my mom was a narcissist and that, you know, narcissistic abuse is very difficult. To heal from, but it’s something that I’m doing right now. And I’m the helping my brother as well just have he still has a relationship with her, but I’m trying to help my brother to be because he always wants to fight her over me. And I’m like, no. You protect your peace. I’m protecting my peace. So, you know, it it it took me I’m fifty five. It took me fifty four years to figure this out and writing my own book and reading my own book and seeing the patterns throughout my life where my mom had opportunities to step up and be a mom and give me the support that I needed. And it didn’t happen. And so instead of living my life like having this fantasy, that one day my mom is gonna wake up and be some hallmark holiday mom, I had to let go of that and that is another grief. Of letting go of that fantasy. So yeah. I mean, brief is not something that you you heal from it at one point and then it goes away. Because there’s always gonna be things throughout your life. That you’re gonna grieve over always. It’s just a matter of how you wanna do it. So I choose to learn from my experiences. And in learning, I find the resiliency.
Victoria Volk: And even if that takes thirty plus years, Absolutely. Did you and me?
Susan Snow: Absolutely. It’s not too late. There is no timeline. There literally is no timeline. I think the the craziest thing that drives me bananas and it probably does you too being grief counselors. When people say, oh, it’s been x amount of time, get over it, or you should just move on Right? Why is it still bothering you? Mhmm. Well, because you didn’t have the relationship with that person that I did, That’s just like when someone loses some when someone dies, I never say I know how you feel. Ever because I don’t. I didn’t have the same relationship with that person. As the one that’s grieving. So Same. Even your brother. Even my brother relationship. I tell my brother that all the time. I don’t know what it felt like for you. You had a whole different experience than I did. And I would not pretend to know what that feels like. I just know how it felt fermi. You know, and and the experiences I went through, which is what I wrote in the book. These were my experiences. And, you know, and and, you know, everybody just everybody goes the other The other thing is is, oh, your trauma is worse than mine. Really? No, it’s not. I mean, the the story, the, you know, the actual situation, yeah, not everybody goes through that. I get that. But everybody’s trauma is different. Does it mean that it’s not important?
Victoria Volk: There’s no hierarchy?
Susan Snow: Or there’s no hierarchy exactly. There’s no you know, well, my dad was murdered and you’re, you know, you’re just dealing with whatever, you know. No. Well, and
Victoria Volk: what people are doing when they do that is they’re minimizing their own gap briefing trauma.
Susan Snow: Absolutely. And it’s crazy because I’ve had conversations with people that here’s the other side of that is that I’ve had conversations with people who have gone through trauma, but because it was an everyday event or an environment that they lived in constantly, they felt like everybody, you know, everybody’s family was like that. And so it wasn’t it wasn’t traumatic what they went through. It wasn’t abuse that they went through. And when I bring it to light, I had a woman who I was driving for Lyft for a little while last year because I’m a real estate agent now and real estate was a little funky last year, so first time in fourteen years, I had to have a side gig. So I went out and was driving, and I had my book in my car her one of my riders who was, like, why isn’t your book in your car? So I had a yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had my book in my car and I picked up this woman and she pulled out my book and started to kind of read it. And she says, oh my gosh, you went through so much trauma and this and that. And I’ve never had trauma in my life, but she was going into rehab the next day. And I said, really? And so we started talking about her sobriety. And I said, well, what? You know, first of all, we talked about the fact that this was her third time in rehab. And that she had three kids, and that this time she wanted to do it for herself, the other time she did it for her kids, but failed. And in talking more with her, she said, well, I haven’t had trauma like you have had trauma. And then you said, well, you know, everybody’s life is different and maybe you did and you don’t recognize it. She said, well, you know, when I was I lived with my mom, my mom raised me and my brother, and my mom was abusive you know, she yelled and screamed at me and whatever, but she said she had these boy this one boyfriend and, you know, he he would touch me from the age of three to seven. And I was like, touch you, and then she started to elaborate. And this woman was sexually assaulted and molested. From the age of three to the age of seven, she was made to have relations with her brother, and this was ongoing. And so for her, it was normal Like, this this was how you showed love. This is, you know, but then the mom would be jealous when the boyfriend would give more attention. To the child. Right? And I almost crashed my car at this point because I was like, you don’t think this is trauma? I said, here’s what I’m gonna tell you. What happened to you wasn’t your fault? That was his fault. That was her mother’s fault. You had adults that did not protect you. As a child, did not protect your brother as a child, you one hundred percent went through trauma. And I said, and I don’t know how or why, but stuff flies out of my mouth and I go, where did that come from?
But what I said, was this. I said, if you really want to get sober, that is what you need to attack. Because what you went through was severe trauma. And I said, you have been To rehab, three times. Have you ever in those three times told any of your counselors? This story. And she said no. And I said, this is why it’s your fourth. So here’s what I’m gonna tell you. When you go to rehab tomorrow, and by this time she’s, like, in tears, like, in tears.
She’s sobbing. And I said, listen to me carefully. When you go to therapy or when you go to rehab tomorrow, Please tell your story. Tell your story. Because when you do they’re gonna get you the right people. They’re gonna align you with the right people. Because if you don’t attack this, now S sobriety is gonna be so much harder. And she was just like, oh my god. I can’t believe I’m this lift and this is what I was yeah. But it just it it opened my eyes. It really gave me an aha that there are people that are walking around on this earth. Who have had experiences that it was so common that they don’t even realize that it was traumatic. And
Victoria Volk: Or no one ever even asks, what are you trying to cope from? Right? Like, what happened to you? Right?
Susan Snow: That’s a very simple question. Even physicians and doctors offices don’t ask that. What happened to you? Right? And, you know, and and it again, it shocked me that she said she wants to rehab three dives and she said all they did was talk about the sobriety.
Staying sober not feeling guilty for, you know, whatever. I get all that, but unless you really attack the true whether it’s abuse or whatever it was, it’s harder to get sobriety because Down deep, that is what you’re hiding from. Mhmm. I watched my mother do it. For years.
That’s what she was she was hiding from was the reality, you know? And hurt people, hurt people, whether it’s themselves or the people around them. So I told her, I said, look, with me healing for myself, the ripple effect is it’s helped my kids. It’s helped my husband. It’s helped my brother. Right? The people that are open, but you have to work on you first. You know, you have to be the priority.
Victoria Volk: And Remember your follow-up?
Susan Snow: I didn’t. And it kills me because I would really love. I center with my book. I said, read my book while you’re in rehab. Maybe it’ll give you some hope and maybe some some kind of healing. She didn’t wanna get out of my car, but you know, I’ve met many people like that, and I feel like I’m living in my purpose. You probably feel the same way, being a grief counselor. Iknow I’ve made a difference in people’s lives. I’ve seen it from other riders that I have gotten a follow-up with. But with her, you know, she is always on my mind. Maybe one day, you know, we’ll run into each other again. But I really hope that she’s able to heal all the terrible things that happened to her. And how it’s affected her mindset all these years, not believing in herself and not, you know, feeling like that’s the only way that you can show love with a man in making the making wrong choices with men. That kind of thing. But, yeah, I mean, it’s it’s important to make yourself the priority.
Victoria Volk: So what has your grief taught you?
Susan Snow: Oh my goodness. My grief taught me to learn from what I’m grieving about. There are lessons in grief if you pay attention. So when I feel like I’m grieving something, Ilook at it a little bit differently and say, why am I feeling this way? What is it that triggered me to feel this way? And what can I learn from it? Because the other side of grief too is that It’s the universe trying to teach you something. You you gained something out of it.
Victoria Volk: That’s a really hard thing to hear. You know, at first. I know
Susan Snow: it is. It
Victoria Volk: is. Listening to that or, like, oh, I didn’t ask for this lesson. Right?
Susan Snow: Right. But again So
Victoria Volk: it’s a
Susan Snow: It’s all timing. Yeah.
Victoria Volk: Well, and and it it’s all part of our own evolution.
Susan Snow: Absolutely. And it’s it it is. It’s all in timing. It’s it’s, you know, what is that that saying, you know, when the when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Victoria Volk: Mhmm.
Susan Snow: Yeah. I mean, that is a hundred percent real. And, yeah, in the beginning, it is it is hard. It it is. And I think in the beginning of grief, like, the best thing you can do is take care of yourself, just the littlest things. Just making sure that you’re that you’re remembering to to give yourself love in your in your self support. And that’s, you know, that’s something I had to learn to do really early on, is I had to figure out, okay, how do I love myself? Since I didn’t have adults around me that were giving me the support I needed at the time. So I had to learn to do the things. And as a kid, you know, what is that? Oh, well, that’s getting my nails done. You know, feeling pretty, getting my hair done, you know, spending time with my friends just like sometimes it was forcing myself to spend time with my friends because all I wanted to do is sit in my room. As a kid, you don’t know what you’re you don’t know what you’re doing anyway. So I was just like, I’m just going to envelope myself with friends and my boyfriend and, you know, the things that I know that even though they walked on egg shells around me, they still I could find a little bit of joy in spending time. With them. But, you know, as an adult, when I tell people and they’re going through grief is, I know it’s hard sometimes, but find something that makes you feel better even if it’s for five minutes. Whether that’s just a good cup of coffee, or a tea or just sitting outside and feeling the breeze on your face and the sunshine. You know, taking a bath, listening to your favorite music, just something. That gives you a little bit of comfort.
Victoria Volk: Very good. Very
Susan Snow: good. Yeah. Scream into your pillow. Cry your eyes out. And I think people get really scared. Like, oh my god. If I cry, I’m gonna cry for days. Like, I’m never gonna stop crying. I’m I’m just it’s just not gonna happen. You know? And so I know women who are like, I allow myself to have ten minute cry and then that’s it. I’m like, really? I think you should just go for it. Just just let it all out. And it’s okay. Actually, it’s a positive. It’s not a negative. But, you know, I still think that there’s that little, like, that little myth in the back where people think if I cry. I’m weak I’m showing weakness, and it’s the total opposite. It is so the opposite.
Victoria Volk: Well, you can get outward attention from your anger, or you can get outward attention from your tears. And which would you for it to be.
Susan Snow: Exactly. Would you like to go to jail or because I’ve had those days too where I was like, Oh, man. I, you know, I have to rain it in a little bit, find other ways.
Victoria Volk: And speaking of that, as a mother, dealing with all of this. Like, your children, how old were well, I have two questions. What’s sparked the idea for the book? Was it the therapy? That kind of helped you get to that point? And then also, like, just, you know, the mother you were before you started to do this work in the mother that they have now?
Susan Snow: Well, the book, when I turned fifty, I was mentally at a place where I knew that telling my story when things came up I would have the tools to help me get through it. So that’s why the book came around because I was like, oh god, I’m fifty. I gotta get this done. And I honestly feel like it was my dad kicking me in the rear end. Because he knows what my work is. You know? And my purpose isn’t is through him. And I had this like I drew a line in the sand that was like, that’s it. I’m fifty years old. I’m getting this book done. It took me four and a half years to write it. And it’s because I did. I had to dive and relive and, you know, I had repressed memories come up. All kinds of things happened. It was a journey in itself.
As I was writing the book, I feel like as my kids have gotten bigger, and now they’re adults. I won’t tell you how old they are because it makes me feel old. But they’re all adults, and I have three now. And you know, I think they see the resiliency. They see that I’ve had these days where I’ve been so sad. They’ve seen my sadness. I never hid it from them. I never, you know, think the only time I hit any of my emotions is when my husband and I were divorcing. And there was a you know, there was just a lot. And I was really trying to be the supportive parent through that. And I felt like they needed they needed to see a strong mom. They needed to see a supportive mom. And so my closet saw all my tears and heard all the bad words. You name it. Right? And but, you know, my husband as as well was very No. Very loving or, you know, tried to be as loving as possible through everything with them. He was going through his own stuff, his own mental stuff. But as they’ve seen me progress and they’ve seen me heal, My kids struggle with their own mental health things, and they have a mom that can help them through their own struggle. They have a mom that was a big proponent of them getting therapy. And finding the right therapist. So I was able to utilize my own experiences even with my own kids. And making sure that they were going to be okay, no matter what. So you know, I think that was the biggest thing. I wanted to leave a legacy for my kids of you can go through horrific things in your life. And you can choose to be a victim or you can choose to rise up and be a survivor. And my hope is that I’m teaching my kids to be survivors.
Victoria Volk: You had mentioned that you gave your clause at all your tears and you wanted to be the strong mom. And I imagine that comes from your own personal experience of with your own mom. Right?
Susan Snow: Yep.
Victoria Volk: One thing I wanna highlight for listeners is that I think there’s a distinction that needs to be made. There’s a difference between being strong, but also allowing yourself to grieve with your children and showing them how to grieve. Mhmm. Because again, that goes back to what you shared, like you learned to, like, put your mask on. And what happens is, as children learn that, writing, we learn that.
Susan Snow: Yeah.
Victoria Volk: Either and it can go the pendulum can swing both ways. Right? I had a similar experience. There wasn’t room for my emotion because there was so much from my mom. Same for you. Like, there was like, Iagree that My mom died the day my dad died. Right? Like Mhmm. So there wasn’t room for my emotion. So I had to be strong. To I didn’t wanna rock the boat. I didn’t wanna upset her. Right? And so I think you can learn. You can be in a situation like that where you either learn to put the mask on or you learn how to grieve in a healthy way. And a part of that involves showing vulnerability, showing tears. Yep. Talking about what you’re experiencing. Yeah. Having space and room for everyone’s feelings and emotions.
Susan Snow: Yep. Well, I tell you
Victoria Volk: What would you do differently now? Right?
Susan Snow: Yeah. I mean, I think the funniest story for me was I was speaking. My kids had never they’ve never really heard my story from my perspective before. And I invited them in twenty nineteen. I spoke. I was a keynote speaker. And I wanted to have my kids there. So they came to watch me speak. And I had asked my middle son to video me. And so I did my I did my talk and I came off the stage and my kids were just like blown away. And they were like, I’ve never heard yours I’ve never heard it like that before. I I’ve never, like, Oh my gosh. Like, they didn’t know what to say, but my middle son said I said, did you get did you get anything on, you know, an ego’s mom? I got so caught up in your story that Iforgot to record you. I’m so so sorry. I was like, it’s fine. Because for me, it was like, okay. That sucks. But you know what? It was so much more important for my kids to be a part of that experience.
And to hear my story from their own mother, from my own lips, and to see where I was and where how far I’ve come because I felt like that was a really important lesson for them to learn. As young adults. And they have been on this journey with me, and Ithink I have such a close relationship with my children and even my I have a I have a stepson. I have a really great relationship with him. He is my kid. A woman another woman just had her had him. I’ve been blessed to be able to have this experience with my children and teach them exactly how to grieve, and that it’s okay to grieve, and it’s okay to to show your emotions. And you know, it’s not a weakness, and I’m here for you, and your dad is here for you. And we have always been very very much about showing support for our kids, not only our kids, but my friends make fun of me because they say I collect children, not in a weird way. But generally, kids who have challenging home lives themselves, who don’t find the support system themselves. Have found my husband and I as secondary parents. And I feel like that’s all coming and stemming from my own experiences. And making sure that other kids have the support that they need. And so now those kids are getting married and they’re having children, which is giving me grandchildren, non biological grandchildren, but You know, they see me as a positive person in my in their lives, and I am so grateful for that. So grateful for that, that they too have read my book and said, Wow. Like, when you say to me that you’re gonna get through this, or when you say to me those times where you say just let it go or if you’re feeling, you know, depressed, here’s Here’s some things that maybe might help or whatever. You get it. You literally get it. I said, yeah, I’m not just pulling this out of the sky folks. Like, I’m taking my own, you know, my own experiences and my own lessons learned and and just helping you, like, almost like giving you you know, they don’t even know what this is, but cliff notes. But most kids are like cliff notes. What are cliff notes? I don’t wanna talk to you anymore. If if you were around in the eighties, you know what a cliff note is. So yeah. I mean, that’s and I think that you know, as adults, and adults who have gone through things or have felt things sort of, you know, I feel like it’s important for us to impart our wisdom, our positive wisdom on to the younger generations because I feel like they have personally, I feel like they have a lot more. On their plate than even we did. The differences is that there is talk of mental health. And there is a lot known about PTSD, and there is a lot of conversation around trauma. And create
Victoria Volk: new free tools
Susan Snow: and loss. Yes. Absolutely.
Victoria Volk: It’s so much more accessible.
Susan Snow: It is accessible. It’s just you know, people still need that little nudge. You know?
Victoria Volk: Yeah. You don’t wanna DIY your trauma and
Susan Snow: No. No. You still need the nudge.
Victoria Volk: Yeah. It’s you know, you’re only like you said earlier, you know, we I think and I did it too. Like, you you’re only extending the suffering by not bringing in the support that you need to move forward. And you know, we don’t know we don’t know. And Exactly.
People that know a little bit more and are a little bit further along. And those are the people you want to seek out. So
Susan Snow: Yep.
Victoria Volk: Thank you so much for sharing all that you’ve shared. Is there anything that you didn’t feel like you got to share?
Susan Snow: Oh my goodness. No. I think this was great. I mean, I hope I hope I’m putting it out there. I’m I’m throwing that energy out there that there’s someone listening who I just want you to know that you’re not alone. You’re not, and that there are people out there that care about you. And that, you know, there are resources available to you. And, you know, I’m I’m out there. You know, I’m accessible. I am open to talking to anyone heck, you know?
Who knows? If you’re sitting in my left ride what you’re gonna get. But, you know, Ijust hope that someone out there is able to resonate or connect with with this conversation, and it just shows them that there is hope and there is healing. That can happen.
Victoria Volk: Yes. Mhmm. Iwould love to dove into the divorce and the reconnection. Oh. When I say it’s hard. A self and everyone else would just have to read the book because I’m assuming that’s in the book?
Susan Snow: Yep. Okay.
Victoria Volk: Pick up the book if you wanna know more on that. We’re so about all our other podcasts. Interviews maybe?
Susan Snow: Yeah. Yeah. No. Italked about it more in the book than anything else, you know. Because the divorce is the divorce. The lessons out of it is is what’s important.
Victoria Volk: Right? Mhmm. Well, thank you so much again. And I will put links to the book, the your website, Instagram, and the show notes. I’ll also find a really good box breathing YouTube that I can add in there.
Susan Snow: Yeah. Absolutely.
Victoria Volk: Yep. And
Susan Snow: Yeah. Thank you. Wonderful. And did you say the name of the book? I don’t know remember if you did or not.
Victoria Volk: I believe you did. The other side of the gun.
Susan Snow: Yeah. The other side of the gun, my journey from trauma to resiliency. Yep.
Victoria Volk: Yep. I’ll put the link in the show notes for that.
Susan Snow: Perfect. Yeah. Awesome.
Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Cancer Thriver, Childhood Grief, Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Mind/Body Wellness, Parent Loss, Pespective, Pet Loss |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In this heartfelt episode of Grieving Voices, I’m joined by the remarkable Kris Carr, a multiple New York Times bestselling author, wellness activist, and cancer thriver. Known as a force of nature and recognized as one of Oprah’s Super Soul 100 influential thought leaders, Kris shares insights from her latest book “I’m Not a Morning Person,” which delves into the raw emotions that surface when life falls apart unexpectedly.
Kris discusses navigating through loss and grief with humor and hope while providing readers with strategies to move forward. She opens up about her personal journey living with stage 4 cancer for over two decades and how it has shaped her approach to health advocacy.
The conversation touches on profound topics such as:
- The unexpected grief journey sparked by the death of her father.
- How old wounds resurfaced during this period.
- The importance of emotional literacy in healing.
- Tools she developed to manage anxiety related to ongoing cancer scans.
- Her transition from trying to cure herself to focusing on healing.
Listeners will learn how Kris transformed fear into proactive self-care measures that millions now embrace. She also emphasizes the power of naming our emotions as a step toward understanding them better.
Kris’s story isn’t just about survival; it’s an inspiring testament to thriving amid adversity by harnessing love, acceptance, and resilience. Join us for an episode that promises deep reflection and practical wisdom for anyone grappling with their own grieving process or supporting others through theirs.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
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NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
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Navigating the Tumultuous Seas of Grief: Insights from Kris Carr
Grief is like an unpredictable storm; it can hit us with ferocity when we least expect it, leaving us to navigate through its tumultuous waves. In today’s blog post, we dive deep into the insights shared by Kris Carr – a beacon of hope and resilience in the face of life’s most challenging moments.
Kris Carr isn’t just another voice in the wellness community; she is a testament to living vibrantly even amid adversity. Her journey began with a stage 4 cancer diagnosis that would forever change her trajectory. But rather than allowing this diagnosis to dictate her life’s story, Kris turned it into an opportunity for profound self-discovery and healing.
Her latest literary offering, *I’m Not a Mourning Person: Braving Loss, Grief, and the Big Messy Emotions That Happen When Life Falls Apart*, isn’t just about coping mechanisms but also about embracing our vulnerabilities as sources of strength. It’s about finding humor amidst pain and discovering hope when all seems lost.
One crucial takeaway from Kris’ philosophy is understanding that **self-care is non-negotiable**. Whether facing illness or loss, prioritizing oneself isn’t selfish—it’s essential for survival and growth. This means acknowledging our emotions fully without judgment or suppression.
In particular, emotions like anxiety and fear often get a bad rap as being purely negative forces within us. However, as Kris illustrates through her own experiences dealing with these powerful feelings constructively can lead to personal empowerment instead of paralysis.
Moreover, anger—a frequently misunderstood emotion—can be constructive if we view it correctly. Anger signals something deeper at play beneath our surface reactions; injustice felt or pain endured demands attention so healing can occur.
Another poignant aspect discussed by Kris is how society has historically viewed grief—and especially women expressing grief—as unbecoming or taboo. Yet openly discussing such emotions paves the way toward wholeness and recovery—a message particularly resonant in times where mental health awareness is gaining much-needed recognition.
For those who find themselves in caregiver roles—often overlooked heroes—the reminder comes loud and clear: care must flow both ways for sustainability’s sake.
The act of writing itself serves dual purposes for someone like Kris —it becomes both cathartic release and personal reflection tool while simultaneously offering solace guidance others traversing similar paths.
Perhaps one most compelling points made during her interview was regarding language used around illnesses such cancer – traditionally framed battles waged against enemy within ourselves body seen battlefield casualties inevitable consequence warlike mindset approach disease aggression compassion holistic perspective needed here one treats their body ally need tender loving care opposed adversary conquered defeated at all costs
This shift viewpoint not only changes how individuals experience their illness but also affects societal perceptions surrounding diseases overall thus promoting more empathetic inclusive dialogue
Lastly let’s touch upon interesting tidbit revealed by herself – past involvement Budweiser Super Bowl commercials showcases versatility breadth career spanned beyond realms health activism authorship Indeed professional background advertising gives unique lens which view cultural phenomena such annual spectacle Super Bowl ads yet choice refrain watching year underscores commitment staying true authentic self regardless external expectations trends
As wrap up thoughts on enlightening conversation had between Grieving Voices host inspirational figurehead wellness movement encourage readers seek out additional resources provided kriscarr.com follow along Instagram @crazysexykris delve further into book available wherever books sold. Remember whether you’re bracing yourself against storms grief learning sail smoothly calmer waters wisdom gleaned voices experienced navigators invaluable compass guiding towards brighter horizons ahead.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:15
Hello. Hello. Thank you for tuning into Grieving Voices. Today, I’m excited to share my guests, Kris Carr, with you, my listeners. She is a multiple New York times bestselling author, wellness activist, and cancer thriver.
Victoria Volk
00:00:15 – 00:00:44
She’s been called a force of nature by o magazine and was named a new role model by the New York Times. Kris is also a member of Oprah’s Super Soul 100, a group of the most influential thought leaders today. Her latest book, I’m not a mourning person, braving loss, grief, and the big messy emotions that happen when life falls apart, shares what to expect when you’re not expecting your world to fall apart. It’s raw and inspiring, but has joy, humor, and hope too. This book gives readers tips and strategies to move forward and start living again.
Victoria Volk
00:00:44 – 00:01:04
Kris has helped millions of people take charge of their health and live like they mean it through her award winning books, blog, online courses, and membership communities. Thank you so much for being here and taking your time to share with my listeners. And I just gotta say, I loved the book. The movie we recommend.
Kris Carr
00:01:04 – 00:01:05
Sorry. You can’t really see it.
Victoria Volk
00:01:05 – 00:01:20
I loved it. I do have one question because I wanna make sure I ask this because I just I don’t remember reading the acknowledgments the first time., And so I just kind of peeked through now. What book on grief were you given by your friend, Jeanette?
Kris Carr
00:01:21 – 00:01:24
Oh, well, that’s Julia Samuel’s book.
Victoria Volk
00:01:25 – 00:01:26
Julia Samuel’s book. Okay.
Kris Carr
00:01:27 – 00:02:13
Yeah. And, one of her books, and that was my introduction to a world that I was resistant to enter. And then once I entered it, I realized, actually, this is the conversation that not only do I need for myself, but I wanna have with other people because it’s the most meaningful conversation that I could have. And I didn’t realize up until my most recent life kick just how grief was woven into, the nooks and crannies of my heart, my history, and how it was really something I was so afraid to touch, and yet it was holding me back.
Victoria Volk
00:02:13 – 00:03:00
In reading the book, I resonated with so many aspects of your story of re I, like, reconnected with parts of myself where, like, I was like, I could imagine myself back in time and feeling those similar emotions. And I have, like, a 1000000 and 1 questions, it feels like on my paper. But what you’re here to talk about though is the death of your father, which seems to have been the catalyst for you to explore grief in a way a deeper and more meaningful way than you ever had despite all of like, despite a stage 4 cancer diagnosis that you’ve been living with and all of that, like because there’s a lot of grief in that. And so to not really touch it until until recently. Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:03:00 – 00:03:04
It’s a very timely book, I’m thinking, for you.
Kris Carr
00:03:05 – 00:03:16
Oh, definitely for me. And I you know, it wasn’t the book that I set out to write. It I’ve written 7 books. This is my 7th book. And you know, there comes a time when your publishers are like, Sue, we need to write another book.
Kris Carr
00:03:17 – 00:03:47
And it had been a minute, and there was this idea that I should write something that’s more mass market, more appealing. I’ve written books for cancer patients. I’ve written books about plant based living. Apparently, I like to tackle difficult topics, vegetables and disease. And so anyway, there was these conversations about me writing something for a wider audience, and I initially went to that.
Kris Carr
00:03:47 – 00:04:09
You know, what’s that self help, aspirational, inspirational book that I could write? Which at some point, I will probably write. But everything in my body and in my being and in my heart was like, I can’t write that book now. I don’t feel that way. I’m not inspired by that conversation.
Kris Carr
00:04:09 – 00:04:49
I am hurting. And so this was my father was diagnosed with cancer in 2016, and he lived for about four and a half years with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. And during that time, you know, obviously, it’s a big life change for the whole family. But I was approaching my milestone of living with my own stage 4 cancer for 20 years. My we were in the middle of a global pandemic, so each and every one of us was hurting in a whole new way and losing people left and right, losing our jobs, losing our former sense of selves, losing our sense of safety and security.
Kris Carr
00:04:49 – 00:05:37
And my business was struggling because I had taken the steps to pull back so that I could be more present with my family. And what I realized is I hadn’t life proofed my business to allow me to do that. And so I was going through a very difficult time. And my initial response, even though I’ve been doing been in the wellness world for 20 years, and so I’ve done a lot of my own personal work and I’ve coached a lot of people in 20 years. Even though I thought I had done this kind of deep healing work when it comes to our mental health and heart tending, it was a big blind spot for me because my go to is to hustle, is to solve, is to fix, is to get the job done.
Kris Carr
00:05:38 – 00:06:09
And I was in a time and place where there wasn’t a way to get the job done. Right? It was a much deeper, more spiritual, more impactful journey that I would have to go on. I couldn’t check a box or get something behind me, much like living with cancer. And so instead of trying to push the river or hold back the ocean because I was afraid it would devour me, I decided to go through it.
Kris Carr
00:06:09 – 00:06:37
You know? And I remember the moment I write about in the introduction when the dam broke when I was sitting in a parking lot at CVS and my mother had asked me to go get more insured because it was the only thing my dad could tolerate. And I am at the aisle not knowing how many to get because I don’t know how much time he has to live and I’m not consciously choosing those thoughts. But here they come. And it was that moment of pushing it down and working harder and all the things that I do to avoid pain where I couldn’t hold it back anymore.
Kris Carr
00:06:37 – 00:06:53
And I was running through the CVS to get back to my car so that nobody would see me cry. And I get in, I break down all of the emotions coming out. And afterwards, I feel this quiet in the storm. I start to feel a little bit better. I feel a break from the fever.
Kris Carr
00:06:54 – 00:07:13
And I think to myself, where are other areas of where are the other areas of my life that I am holding back the opportunity to feel better by just allowing myself to be with the emotion. And that truly was the turning point for me to say, oh, I have to look at this.
Victoria Volk
00:07:14 – 00:07:19
One of my mottos is allowing myself to feel is allowing myself to heal.
Kris Carr
00:07:19 – 00:07:20
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:07:20 – 00:07:30
Pretty much embodies what you just shared. I think the importance of just allowing ourselves to feel what we have to feel, even if it’s to go into our car and have an ugly cry.
Kris Carr
00:07:31 – 00:07:44
You’re so right. And for many of us, we’ve never allowed ourselves to do that. Maybe we don’t even know what we’re feeling. We just know that there’s some sort of disturbance in the force. We’re feeling off.
Kris Carr
00:07:44 – 00:08:19
We’re feeling unsettled. And perhaps that’s old stuff. Like, when we were kids and we didn’t have the words to describe what pain we were experiencing, what discomfort we were experiencing, we may not also have those words as adults. And so it’s an incredible exploration process to even say, what if I just start by trying to identify and articulate what feeling is up for me right now? I don’t have to fix it.
Kris Carr
00:08:19 – 00:08:23
Maybe I could just give it a name and start it there.
Victoria Volk
00:08:23 – 00:08:34
On your Instagram, I saw you had a picture of yourself as a little girl, which prompted me to read the caption. Can you share a little bit about that for our listeners?
Kris Carr
00:08:36 – 00:08:38
About being a little girl?
Victoria Volk
00:08:38 – 00:08:38
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:08:39 – 00:08:41
Having what you the exercise of taking your a picture of yourself
Kris Carr
00:08:42 – 00:08:42
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:08:43 – 00:08:44
as a little as a child?
Kris Carr
00:08:44 – 00:09:17
You know, sometimes when we don’t know how to self-soothe, we weren’t given those tools. Many of us and our parents weren’t given those tools either. And certainly, we find ourselves in a time of mourning. Then if we don’t know what to give to ourself, I like to have that picture, and then it is the picture that I use up on my desk, or it’s, like, in my bathroom or it’s in my closet where I’m getting dressed. And to just check-in with her and ask her what she needs.
Kris Carr
00:09:17 – 00:09:40
And to allow her to say, what I really need is a little break. I actually need to play a little bit. I need to give myself more unstructured time, you know, because she’s still there. But all of the way that I put on masks or you know, I remember when my mantra was suck it up buttercup. Like, what a terrible mantra.
Kris Carr
00:09:41 – 00:09:51
Right? But it was one I followed. And if I’m willing to tend to her and say, I love you. I’m here for you. What do you need?
Kris Carr
00:09:51 – 00:10:04
I’ve got you. I can re-parent you. Then inevitably, I, adult Kris, start to experience the healing that comes from that.
Victoria Volk
00:10:04 – 00:10:31
Because in your book, you share how being a child of anxious parents. And because you mentioned it just briefly there a little bit, how that shaped you into adult life being a child of anxious parents. Because I have this theory that and reading your book, I’m like, okay. Well, that makes sense. Because I have the theory that a lot of children are carrying anxiety and fears that aren’t even theirs.
Kris Carr
00:10:34 – 00:10:34
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:10:34 – 00:10:37
That of their parents. And then I read that in your book and I’m like, okay. That’s kind of affirming.
Kris Carr
00:10:39 – 00:10:52
Yeah. I mean, we are these blank slates, and we pick up vibes. We pick up energy. We pick up behaviors. I think we come here, and we are then domesticated.
Kris Carr
00:10:53 – 00:11:28
And so much of what our job is in this lifetime is to unlearn and to come back to the original source, which is that self-love, love for self, love for others, love for life. And so naturally, if we’re raised by parents who are anxious, then anxiety is gonna maybe even go be one of our go to responses to things. So we’re kind of moving through life fearful. And anxiety really is a rumination about what may or may not happen. Right?
Kris Carr
00:11:28 – 00:11:42
It’s kind of taking fear and saying, I’m thinking ahead. I gotta cover my bases. I gotta have my own back. The world is unsafe. How can I get ahead of this situation so I can make sure I stay safe?
Kris Carr
00:11:43 – 00:12:14
And fear and anxiety serve a purpose. Right? I would say in the book and often try to remind myself that we can’t amputate any of our emotions and expect to be whole. So oftentimes, I think in our very black-and-white society, certain emotions we deem positive and emotions that we should strive to have and show, and other emotions we deem negative as if therefore, there’s something deficient about us for having them. And it’s sort of like saying, here are all the crayons in the crayon box.
Kris Carr
00:12:15 – 00:12:45
But, Victoria, you can only use blue, green, and red because all the other colors are bad. And if you use those colors, you’re bad. And you may be like, but secretly, I love yellow. You know? And so I think when we get a little curious about these emotions and what they’re here to teach us and show us, which we can talk about, then we can follow the breadcrumbs and understand how they work and why our brain uses them.
Kris Carr
00:12:45 – 00:13:00
Why did why are we designed to experience anxiety from time to time? How is it a benefit to us? How does it truly keep us safe? And how does it go awry? Right?
Kris Carr
00:13:00 – 00:13:18
What do I need to do when I’m finding myself spinning out, let’s say, before a CAT scan? I get checked every 5 years. There’s always gonna be some anxiety before I go in for my scan. This is the moment, 21 years later, when my doctor says, oh, it turned on. It’s finally aggressive.
Kris Carr
00:13:18 – 00:13:43
This is what we’ve been waiting for. And I’m I’m gonna have some anxiety, but I can develop some tools to soothe that anxiety. I can develop some tools to make sure that that anxiety doesn’t become a rumination that’s out of control that can even become almost like an addiction, like a hot spot that I’ll just go to. It’s almost like we’re going to the mental gym when we’re dealing with some of this stuff.
Victoria Volk
00:13:44 – 00:14:19
Those that may not be familiar with you and never heard of you, can you just briefly share? Because I know we’ve mentioned it, but we haven’t really said about your diagnosis. And then I’d like to move into how that anxiety and that fear played a role through your diagnosis and how that transitioned to when you became then a caregiver for your father. And then the moment that you realized, you know, the P there’s like 3, I have a note here. There’s 3 spiritual or 3 pivotal moments that led you to writing the book.
Victoria Volk
00:14:19 – 00:14:23
And so can we rewind and then fast forward a little bit?
Kris Carr
00:14:24 – 00:14:47
Yes. So, I was in a very different career and had very different hopes and thoughts and dreams for my life. And then on Valentine’s Day in 2003, I was diagnosed with a rare and incurable stage 4 cancer. And so the first doctor that I met with suggested a triple organ transplant. The next doctor gave me 10 years to live.
Kris Carr
00:14:47 – 00:15:30
The doctor after that suggested radical treatments that wouldn’t do anything. And it was that moment where I realized I had to become my own advocate, and I had to become, as I like to call, the CEO of my health. So as a CEO, the leader of our lives, it’s like, okay. I’m responsible for putting together the team, for hiring, for firing, for finding my second in command because the doctors work for me. And I was lucky, or actually just hardworking to find a great oncologist who knew the most about my very rare disease, who had his finger on the pulse of research, and who also had a wonderful bedside manner.
Kris Carr
00:15:30 – 00:15:46
So I was very surprised when he said, sometimes your disease can be slow growing. It can become aggressive. We just don’t know. We have to watch and wait. And while we’re doing that, we want you to watch and live.
Kris Carr
00:15:46 – 00:16:34
And I didn’t really know how to do that. So the first place I went afterwards was the grocery store because I figured vegetables were good, even though I hated them. And what I was truly looking for was some sort of control, some place to put my energy so that I could feel like I was participating in my well-being as opposed to participating in my disease. And that’s what started the work that I do first and foremost for cancer patients when I began and then later for people who are interested in not becoming patients, because I truly believe that self-care is health care and that we have more power than we think. And, again, it was this career is not something that I went into saying this is what I wanna do.
Kris Carr
00:16:34 – 00:17:05
But I think for many of us, our lives change in sometimes miraculous ways because of these warning signs or wake up calls that we have. And this is what I chose to do with my wake up call because, again, I live with stage 4 cancer. This is a marathon for me. And I’m very, very inspired to live every moment like it is my first, and I can’t wait to have another. And so where are we going after this?
Kris Carr
00:17:06 – 00:17:10
Where would you like me to take you after this? You had a 3 part question.
Victoria Volk
00:17:10 – 00:17:12
I did. I know. I’m I tend to do that.
Kris Carr
00:17:12 – 00:17:14
It’s okay.
Victoria Volk
00:17:15 – 00:17:26
Try to squeeze it all in. Just the anxiety of that.
Kris Carr
00:17:19 – 00:17:19
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:17:19 – 00:17:26
Diagnosis and the experience of going through that and then being hit with another rupture, as you call it in your book, of your father?
Kris Carr
00:17:27 – 00:17:53
So for me, like I said earlier, I am the person that’s going to pretty much try to put a plan in place. And I think it’s very helpful to do that. It’s one of the reasons why my work has helped a lot of people is because I help people and people who don’t wanna be patients just put that wellness plan together. But a lot of that came from my fear, and a lot of that came from my anxiety. So isn’t that wonderful, though?
Kris Carr
00:17:53 – 00:18:39
So fear and anxiety helped me out in a big way. The problem is when they take over and they shut you down, they paralyze you. They make it so that the only thing that you feel like you can do to cope is to numb because they’re just too big. And so that’s when all of our self-care principles and practices, the toolkits that many of us go through life trying to build, we wanna open the box and lean on a few of them, whether it’s through breath work, whether it’s with a therapist or a counselor, like, hey, these emotions are too big for me to hold on my own. Oftentimes there may be other things tied into them, past traumas, past grieves.
Kris Carr
00:18:40 – 00:18:59
One of the things that my therapist talked about and I wrote about in the book is she says, when the grief train pulls into the station, it brings all the carbs.
Victoria Volk
00:18:49 – 00:18:49
Mmm
Kris Carr
00:18:49 – 00:18:59
The stuff you thought you were over is behind you, and you’re just totally sideswiped. Brings up trauma. It brings up anxiety. It brings up shame.
Kris Carr
00:18:59 – 00:19:10
It brings up rage. For me, I went through a period where, you know, my number one emotion I was experiencing was not grief. It was rage. I’m like, where is all this hot energy coming from? Well, it’s old stuff.
Kris Carr
00:19:12 – 00:19:37
And so learning to live with stage 4 cancer for me is more of a mental game than physical game. It’s about learning how to work with my fear and anxiety as opposed to be overwhelmed by it because that those moments are going to come. I was talking to a patient the other day, and you know, I’ll go to, okay. I’m having this anxious moment. Let me get in my body.
Kris Carr
00:19:37 – 00:19:51
Because sometimes when I’m in a anxious spiraling out place, I’m having kind of an out of body experience. Right? So I could jump on my bike or jump in the water. You know what I mean? Like, right now, I’m in Florida.
Kris Carr
00:19:51 – 00:20:03
The ocean’s nearby. Like, why don’t you just go for a quick swim? And it’s gonna change the channel. It’s almost like we’re dogs with in brain rot, licking, licking, licking a hot spot. You know?
Kris Carr
00:20:03 – 00:20:13
What if the scan’s worse? And what if this and what if that? Well, in this moment, none of that is true. I like to say it’s not something until it’s something. So why don’t you get back to living?
Kris Carr
00:20:13 – 00:20:28
Or it’s been 21 years since I’ve been dealing with this. I know I’m gonna feel anxious. I’m gonna allow myself that day or the day before to go there. But before then, why am I wasting time? Now is it as easy as that?
Kris Carr
00:20:28 – 00:20:33
No. But for me, I’ve been able to work with my brain.
Victoria Volk
00:20:35 – 00:20:36
You’ve had a lot of time to practice.
Kris Carr
00:20:37 – 00:20:43
I’ve had a lot of time to practice. I’m like, come on. Let’s go for a bike ride. In this moment, how are you feeling? Pretty good.
Kris Carr
00:20:43 – 00:20:44
Let’s focus there.
Victoria Volk
00:20:45 – 00:21:07
So when there was kind of training ground for you, when this happened with your father, I imagine that you had to lean on a lot of those tools that have supported you in getting through your own diagnosis and the spiraling thoughts and all of that. And what did you learn about yourself through the process. And how did that change you?
Kris Carr
00:21:07 – 00:21:08
Thought
Victoria Volk
00:21:08 – 00:21:09
Your perspective, maybe of a lot of things.
Kris Carr
00:21:09 – 00:21:38
Very beautiful question. I mean, I think I’m still learning it. And, I think that it was all well and good for me to work with my own palate, which is me. But then when it come came to working with, you know, the potential of losing someone that I love very dearly, he’s my chosen father, so he adopted me. And that was really hard for me because what was coming up, what I didn’t realize was a lot of the old abandonment wounds.
Kris Carr
00:21:38 – 00:22:06
The core, you know, father wound was highly activated, the idea of losing him. Because whether I was conscious of it or not, what I was feeling was that he was leaving me. And that’s what happened the first time with my biological father. And that’s when you go, oh, I have an opportunity here to work with some really old stuff because he’s not leaving me. He’s dying.
Kris Carr
00:22:07 – 00:22:28
And I want to spend as much good time with him as I can. So because of that, it was inspiring to do the work and to go back into therapy. And and to initially, I was like, oh, no. Cancer’s not on my watch. You know, there’s one thing I know.
Kris Carr
00:22:28 – 00:22:55
It’s navigating cancer, and it’s not taking you. I got pissed and angry and called everybody I knew, and I got some wonderful people in my address book. The problem was is that he didn’t wanna do any of it. So the treatments that he was undergoing were really hard. So we could do enough to, you know, keep him as well as possible, but he wasn’t gonna do a full on lifestyle, save my ass technologies Kris Carr plan.
Kris Carr
00:22:55 – 00:23:38
And so I had to make peace with that and say, the best medicine that I can deploy right now is love and making sure that when I enter the room, love is leading the way and that the time that I have with him is filled with it. And so there’s a lot of gin rummy. There’s a lot of really wonderful times that we had. And I learned how to let go of more control, which was very anxiety provoking for me. And just to continue to show up with love even though my heart was breaking and breaking wide open too.
Victoria Volk
00:23:39 – 00:23:48
In this book, you really do speak the language of the work that I do in grief recovery, the grief recovery method. And you talk about how grief manifests in our lives and in our bodies and talk about keeping busy.
Victoria Volk
00:23:48 – 00:24:37
You essentially addressed the sense of grief and you essentially addressed them all like including stirbs or short-term energy relieving behaviors and these things that we do to occupy ourselves and distract ourselves from our feelings. And, and you’ve had so many years of sitting with and working through your grief before writing this book. Who were the people or the resources that have supported you and provided the information that gave you that new perspective. And I know you mentioned that book, on grief, but kind of even before that earlier in your, like, when you were diagnosed and as you were going through that journey, what were the things that helped you shift your perspective from, you know, woe is me to the self-driven mission?
Victoria Volk
00:24:37 – 00:24:43
Or was it just did perfectionism take over? Because I know you talk a lot about perfectionism in your book too a little bit.
Kris Carr
00:24:43 – 00:25:01
I don’t know. Maybe sometimes. Oh, maybe sometimes. But I think so I practice what I call the 5 pillars of wellness. So they are basically being mindful of optimizing what you’re eating, drinking, thinking, and how you’re resting and renewing.
Kris Carr
00:25:02 – 00:25:32
And all of that sits on a foundation of stress management because we know that stress is really the number one killer. And stress comes in all sorts of ways, including heartache. And so that’s the basis of the lifestyle practice that I teach in my books and in my community. And that all came from all of my research as a first and foremost, as a cancer patient, what can I do to extend my life? Is there any way I can participate and help my longevity, help my odds?
Kris Carr
00:25:33 – 00:25:59
And it’s really the basis of lifestyle medicine, which has been around for a very long time. You know? And so all of that work for 20 years now has certainly taught me a lot about myself and my body. The big turning point for me, I think, emotionally was on my 10 year cancer versary when, you know, one of the doctors had originally given me 10 years to live. And here I am making it to the 10 year mark.
Kris Carr
00:26:01 – 00:26:21
And everybody was so thrilled except for me because I didn’t think that unless it was behind me, I could really live my life. So I was very frustrated, very angry. And so I was trying to cure myself since the doctors couldn’t cure me. You know? And it wasn’t happening.
Kris Carr
00:26:22 – 00:26:54
But I also wasn’t my disease wasn’t progressing either. And so it was just something that I was having to learn to live with. And there are many things for everybody that we might not want, but we have to learn to live with. And for me, it’s cancer. And so I remember thinking in that moment when everybody’s celebrating but me that I have to come up with a better way because I could live my whole life with this disease and I could waste it all.
Kris Carr
00:26:55 – 00:27:10
Because I wasn’t truly living unless it was behind me on paper. I got that stamp of approval. You’re in remission. And what if I lived? A whole lot of years healthy and happy, you know, if I allowed myself to be.
Kris Carr
00:27:11 – 00:27:25
But I didn’t get that stamp of approval. And that’s when I started to think about the difference between healing and curing. And that curing may or may not happen. You know, it happens in the physical body. It happens for some of us.
Kris Carr
00:27:25 – 00:27:49
Doesn’t happen for all of us. There are a lot of people out there who are living really big, abundant, wonderful lives with chronic illnesses, chronic shit pickles, just chronic stuff. And that’s okay. But healing can happen for each and every one of us. There is no timeline, and it can happen even beyond our physical form.
Kris Carr
00:27:49 – 00:28:09
And so I started to move more in the direction of aspiring to be on a healing path and to be loving and patient and caring with myself. And that, to me, when you say, okay. Where’d you learn this? What are the most inspirational resources or what not? It was actually that mental shift that changed everything.
Kris Carr
00:28:10 – 00:28:30
There are incredible grief resources out there. Right? You’re one of those incredible resources. And it was a world I wasn’t very familiar with. And then when we get interested, when we get curious, when we start to, you know, do the research, buy the books, follow the breadcrumbs, we start to find the voices that resonate for us.
Kris Carr
00:28:31 – 00:28:54
But the principles are still universal. You know, and that is that or at least I believe they’re universal, that our emotions are energy, we can’t amputate them, we need to allow them to flow. When energy is stagnant, it’s not good for your physical body. It’s not good for your mental health. And emotions are also filled with information.
Kris Carr
00:28:54 – 00:29:10
So if we can become a little bit more emotionally literate and curious, then we can start to learn how to tend to these crayons, these parts of ourselves that make up the whole beautiful picture that is us.
Victoria Volk
00:29:12 – 00:29:30
I’d love to talk about anger a little bit. You talked about a lot about emotions, but and you mentioned anger, and you mentioned anger quite a bit in your book too. And I didn’t address my grief until 2019. And that was at that point over 30 years. So I had a lot of time to build up a lot of anger and resentment.
Victoria Volk
00:29:31 – 00:30:12
And so to allow those floodgates to open, it was like, you know, if we imagine ourselves like a tea kettle and this pressure just keeps building and building and building, and if we don’t release that pressure, it like, we literally are dying from the inside very, you know, slowly and just deteriorates our bodies. And like you said, it’s stress. It’s physical stress, emotional stress, mental stress. Imagine that as is your body like a tea kettle. So allowing that rupture in that way, a good rupture, that’s a good rupture, you know, but you have, there’s a part I wrote here and we act out instead of crying out because anger feels powerful while grief feels powerless.
Victoria Volk
00:30:14 – 00:30:25
And you talk about caring for your anger and your grandmother had a motto, don’t cure the darkness, light a candle.
Kris Carr
00:30:25 – 00:30:25
Mmm
Victoria Volk
00:30:26 – 00:30:34
And I absolutely love that. But in talking about anger and the wisdom that anger has for us, what has anger taught you?
Kris Carr
00:30:36 – 00:31:13
My anger is very powerful, and my anger helps me to be a fighter when I need to fight. And it has protected me. It has inspired me. There have been so many moments, even as a female entrepreneur, when somebody has told me, you know, pipe down, ambition is not appropriate for women, Be satisfied with what you’re getting, even though I know other people are being paid more for the same work, where I relied on the wisdom of anger to say no. Right?
Kris Carr
00:31:13 – 00:31:41
And so I don’t want to vilify it. And yet, I definitely need to learn more about it because it’ll be a go to emotion for me if I’m not careful, thoughtful, inquisitive. My grandmother also used to say that emotions like anger and grief specifically were unbecoming for women. And she came from a very different time. Right?
Kris Carr
00:31:41 – 00:32:14
And so the chapter on anger is called Becoming, Unbecoming. And when I started to explore it more, and I have in my own therapy for many years, but actually starting to explore the mechanics of anger, almost like, you know, you’re approaching a research project, is that many people say that it’s a signaling emotion. Right? And it’s signaling to something else. It’s like the tip of the iceberg is what you see, but underneath of the iceberg is so much bigger.
Kris Carr
00:32:15 – 00:32:30
And so what is it signaling? What is it trying to point out to us? Sometimes it can be injustice. Sometimes it can be extreme pain. Like anger is saying, oh, this is not okay.
Kris Carr
00:32:31 – 00:33:10
And anger is also very protective. And so for me, if grief was something that felt so scary and so destabilizing. You know, there’s a reason why we go into fights, light, or freeze because it’s like a physical manifestation of us protecting ourselves. If an emotion like grief feels so unstabilizing to many of us because, again, we don’t necessarily have the tools for this, especially because we live in a grief-phobic society. Right.
Kris Carr
00:33:10 – 00:33:29
So few of us know how to talk about these things or want to talk about these things because we’re afraid of how people will react. Then an emotion like anger is going can easily step in and help you out. You know, like, oh, I’m starting to feel these emotions. I’m starting to feel out of control. I start to feel so uncomfortable.
Kris Carr
00:33:30 – 00:33:42
And then all of the stuff that can bubble up as a result of that, people will judge me. People won’t like me. People won’t wanna hang out with me because I’m a big downer. Boom. I got you, buttercup.
Victoria Volk
00:33:44 – 00:34:05
There was one part too where you where you talk about making yourself small. I can’t remember exactly how, how it went, but just to the, what you were just saying, how we make ourselves small, especially when we’re trying to express anger and then we’re told you’re too much or you’re too loud or, you know, be seen and not heard and all of these messages that we receive more commonly as little girls. Right?
Kris Carr
00:34:06 – 00:34:06
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:34:07 – 00:34:25
Do you see yourself as I mean, would you describe yourself as a child and like a free spirit, kind of wild, kind of like a poking the bear questioner, initiator of things, maybe initiator of other people? Do you just would you describe yourself like that?
Kris Carr
00:34:26 – 00:34:58
I think as a child, there was definitely a free spirit and a very creative little soul, and very imaginative, very caring. Somebody who’s I hopefully still have those traits. Very connected to animals in nature. And I don’t think I was a bear poker because I think I was very shy and very kind of like, I gotta figure out feel my way because the world isn’t safe. It wasn’t until much later in life that I became a bear poker.
Victoria Volk
00:34:59 – 00:35:17
Yes. Okay. That’s what I was gonna get to because when you start coming into your own. Right? Because you had a lot of grief in your childhood. So I just I saw myself in your story, and that’s why I asked that because, yeah, I just I felt like we’re kindred spirits in a way.
Kris Carr
00:35:17 – 00:35:41
Yeah. Oh, well, that’s wonderful. I mean, I think the more we don’t know if you feel this way, but the more work that I’ve done to heal my heart and befriend myself and really, like who I am. And I think one of the greatest things that you can ever experience in this life is the joy of your own company.
Victoria Volk
00:35:39 – 00:35:39
Mhmm.
Kris Carr
00:35:39 – 00:35:41
And I really wanna park on that for a minute because people don’t talk about it enough.
Kris Carr
00:35:42 – 00:35:53
I mean, getting to a point where you enjoy your own company is so big. We come here alone. We leave her alone. And we live in an epidemic of loneliness. We do need each other.
Kris Carr
00:35:53 – 00:36:00
We need community. We need support. We need our people and our true blues. But, damn, we need ourselves.
Victoria Volk
00:36:00 – 00:36:04
I think it goes back to what you said about self-soothing,
Kris Carr
00:36:03 – 00:36:03
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:36:03 – 00:36:04
our ability to do that.
Kris Carr
00:36:05 – 00:36:30
I don’t think any of that matters unless we can do that, because all of it was temporary. You’re always gonna reach outside of yourself.
Victoria Volk
00:36:11 – 00:36:11
Mhmm.
Kris Carr
00:36:11 – 00:36:30
And then when a relationship ends, it’s gonna be so destabilizing. Because you never had that relationship connection with yourself first and foremost. And so to go back to your question, when did it when did I start to come into my own?
Kris Carr
00:36:30 – 00:36:49
It was more so when I said, I don’t really care what other people think about me. I don’t wanna be a jerk. And but I’m less interested in what other people think about me and more interested in that relationship and what I think about me and my ability to enjoy my own company.
Victoria Volk
00:36:49 – 00:36:56
I actually I’m glad you said that because I actually had, are you someone who enjoys alone time?
Kris Carr
00:36:56 – 00:36:57
Why?
Victoria Volk
00:36:57 – 00:37:18
Maybe you even need it, because that was actually one thing I wrote on there because I love my alone time. I need it. I love my own company. But this is a great segue into having more 4 legged friends than 2 legged friends.
Kris Carr
00:37:19 -00:37:19
Mmm..
Victoria Volk
00:37:19 – 00:37:22
And the fact that you, don’t have children, but you had you know, buddy or dog, you talk about losing buddy your dog.
Victoria Volk
00:37:22 – 00:37:33
And I just kinda wanna talk about if you are open to sharing about the importance of the importance that animals played a role in your healing and as you were grieving.
Kris Carr
00:37:34 – 00:37:54
Yeah, they always will. They’re so a big a big part of my life. And I’ve had a lot of fur children. And you’ve you know this because you are in this world. And so I remember the first time that I got the concept that the other side of grief is love.
Victoria Volk
00:37:54 – 00:37:54
Mmm
Kris Carr
00:37:55 – 00:38:23
And the more that we love, the more we’re gonna grieve. But who wants to go through life saying, oh, no love for me because I don’t wanna feel that pain? So taking on all these incredible companion animals, you know that at some point, you’re gonna have to say goodbye to them. And several of my fur children were very instrumental at certain points in my healing. My first my cat.
Kris Carr
00:38:23 – 00:38:33
My dedicated my second book to my cat. My cat was the first person I told I had cancer, Kristal, I’ve got cancer. What are we gonna do? Right?
Kris Carr
00:38:33 – 00:39:00
And so she was a big part of that early journey. And then Buddy was a big part of making peace with not having children. And then here comes this big old hound dog who is, you know, near death, emaciated, we found on the side of a mountain while we were hiking and nursing him back to health. And thinking, wow, there’s love all around if I just choose to open to it. It might not be in the form that I think.
Kris Carr
00:39:01 – 00:39:21
And it’s in this case, it’s a big old hound dog. But boy, do I love him. And life is still good. And, then most recently, my dog, Lola, who is probably my number one soulmate. And so she was there throughout my dad’s journey and she passed after.
Kris Carr
00:39:21 – 00:39:45
And I think she stuck around because she knew that it would be so big for me. And I couldn’t lose them both at the same time. So we have all these opportunities. And the reason why I write about pet loss in the book is because I was actually shocked by a lot of the grief books and grief literature that didn’t either include it or dealt it dealt with pet loss in a way that felt very diminishing?
Victoria Volk
00:39:46 – 00:39:58
I actually just developed a pet loss program.
Kris Carr
00:39:50 – 00:39:50
Oh.
Victoria Volk
00:39:51 – 00:39:58
But it hasn’t launched yet. And, because I’ve had clients that I’ve worked with where they were seeing, it was a single woman. She didn’t have children.
Victoria Volk
00:39:58 – 00:40:17
She didn’t have a spouse. Her family were in another country. Like she came here with knowing nobody and that her dog was her everything. And so people don’t understand or even think about grief when it comes to pets. But it’s like, we can just go out and get another pet and the things people say.
Victoria Volk
00:40:17 – 00:40:29
Right? And it just yeah. It’s so this is why I started this podcast so people can learn. Right? So people can learn through people’s stories of the import of all the different ways we grieve.
Victoria Volk
00:40:29 – 00:40:39
But even if you’re listening to this and you, for whatever reason, can’t have a pet, get a plant.
Kris Carr
00:40:40 – 00:40:40
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:40:41 – 00:40:44
I see a plant in your background. I have one right on my shelf here. I started actually, that was one of the things I think naturally came up for me.
Victoria Volk
00:40:44 – 00:40:52
And as I was starting my healing was I just started accumulating plants left and right. Like, you know, it’s nurturing something.
Kris Carr
00:40:52 – 00:40:53
Uh-huh.
Victoria Volk
00:40:53 – 00:40:55
You know, I think get a plant.
Kris Carr
00:40:55 – 00:40:55
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:40:56 – 00:41:00
Think of yourself as a plant. Like, what does a plant need? It needs water.
Victoria Volk
00:41:00 – 00:41:13
It needs sunlight. It needs I think it goes back to what is that, doctor Emoto with the water and the rice, the rice experiment where you talk to it. And, I mean, you could talk to your plants. You talk to your pets. Right?
Kris Carr
00:41:13 – 00:41:14
Oh, yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:41:14 – 00:41:41
But none of those things, like, judge, analyze, or criticize you. So you can say whatever you want. And I think that’s the different dynamic of that relationship is that and why the bond is so deep for so many people with their pets is that they feel like you said in your book, it’s like it’s like Christmas morning. Every morning, every day that you your dog sees you, it’s like you could be gone 3 minutes. Like, I can leave and be gone for 3 minutes.
Victoria Volk
00:41:41 – 00:41:51
And my dog, it’s like Christmas morning. I was perfectly how you said that. So, yeah, it’s I think it’s one of the most minimized losses, and so it is something that I’m looking to address. And
Kris Carr
00:41:51 – 00:41:53
I’m so happy to hear that.
Speaker 1
00:41:53 – 00:42:00
So I’m glad we talked about that. Let me look on time. Okay. So I’m just gonna can I just do, like, a quick run through of questions?
Kris Carr
00:42:00 – 00:42:02
Oh, yeah. Of course.
Victoria Volk
00:42:03 – 00:42:11
Okay. Maybe these aren’t gonna be quick answers. I don’t know. Let’s see. I loved how you said life is a terminal condition. We’re all going to die.
Victoria Volk
00:42:12 – 00:42:24
But how many of us truly live? And acceptance helps get you there. And I think you’ve really touched on that quite a bit, not as much of the acceptance piece, but I guess I’ll ask you this. What does acceptance mean to you?
Kris Carr
00:42:25 – 00:42:48
Acceptance for me means that I accept who I am and what my needs are, and then I have my back. I’m not trying to be somebody I’m not. I’m not putting myself into a box that was not made for me. And, that’s a piece of it, but also accepting when I’m going through a difficult time that this is what’s happening. I’m not sugarcoating it.
Kris Carr
00:42:48 – 00:43:08
I’m not trying to slap on an affirmation, even though I think affirmations are very helpful. I’m accepting that this is where I am so that I can do the healing work. That perhaps some of that healing work will help me get to another place. But if not, I’m giving myself which exactly what I need, which is some heart tending.
Victoria Volk
00:43:09 – 00:43:14
And even if just for that moment, you feel better, I mean,
Kris Carr
00:43:12 – 00:43:12
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:43:12 – 00:43:14
that’s a win.
Kris Carr
00:43:14 – 00:43:15
It’s huge win.
Victoria Volk
00:43:16 – 00:43:49
As your dad was going through his cancer treatment, I’m just curious on this because I just I spoke with another end of I’m trained in the end of life doula. And I spoke to another gentleman just recently. And the big conversation was having your affairs in order and just preparing and all of that. And so I imagine, like, when you got your diagnosis and when your father received his, was that something that had you already is that something that you’d, like, made a mission to take care of, like, get your affairs in order? Is that something that your dad made a priority when you first diagnosed?
Kris Carr
00:43:50 – 00:44:14
When I was first diagnosed, I didn’t wanna get my affairs in order. And I had there was a lot of frustration around my unwillingness to get my affairs in order. And it’s one of the reasons why my biological father left my life again.
Victoria Volk
00:44:09 – 00:44:09
Mmm
Kris Carr
00:44:10 – 00:44:14
So I met him when I was 18, and he split again when I was not long after I was diagnosed. And so and I was partly around that.
Kris Carr
00:44:15 – 00:44:33
And so for me, it was like I will do this on my own timeline when I’m ready. I’m not ready to talk about this. And I’m not going to have it forced upon me. So, but, you know, obviously it’s helpful to have these things in place. It’s something that I’m working on now.
Kris Carr
00:44:34 – 00:44:55
I’m 52, and I really wasn’t ready to do it. And for me, it was a psychological block. And now it feels like, you know, my husband and I get on a turbulent plane, and we own our business together, and we run everything together. And it’s sort of like, jeez. Still a little stressed out that we don’t have.
Kris Carr
00:44:56 – 00:45:29
I mean so it’s like, let’s Just take care of some of these things, especially because it makes whether you realize it or not, it brings you more peace and clarity and what not. It’s also really important as our life does become shorter, because dying is a big job. It’s a big job. And we, as a culture, we are the first to throw the big parties and get all the gear and the showers and what not, for when a baby comes into this planet. And it’s a wonderful celebratory event.
Kris Carr
00:45:30 – 00:46:07
But dying is very complicated it takes a lot of energy and it leaves a lot of tentacles and yet it’s so scary for many of us that we don’t have somebody to walk through it with. And that’s when a lot of stuff can happen, I think, in families too. A lot of undue stress and tension and discord and even, you know, estrangements and whatnot. So my dad and I talked about it a lot. At first, it was hard to talk about though, and I wasn’t sure if he wanted to talk about it.
Kris Carr
00:46:07 – 00:46:24
And so I approached it very delicately. Is this something you’d like to talk about? And the answer was yes. And I worked on it with my therapist because I was afraid that I would fall apart and make things worse. And I said, I am willing to talk about these things.
Kris Carr
00:46:25 – 00:46:34
I might not always keep it together. There will be tissues. I might say the wrong thing, but I’m willing to show up. And he was grateful for it. And so we did talk about that.
Kris Carr
00:46:34 – 00:46:55
We did talk about his fears. We did talk about his wishes. And we talked about what he wanted at his celebration of life. There were absolute tears. When hospice came, they told us with him in the room, you know that this is not curative.
Kris Carr
00:46:56 – 00:47:11
We are making you comfortable. Here are the stages of what will happen. This is what will happen as your body starts to shut down. This family is what we’re teaching you and how to support. I’d never had candid conversations like that before.
Kris Carr
00:47:11 – 00:47:34
It was terrifying. I was grateful that we were in the middle of the pandemic because I had a mask on, and I would just pull it up really high. So that nobody could see that I was like, my lips were quivering and I was crying under the mask and whatnot. Because I was so scared to have that conversation. And I know people who, you know, whose loved ones have said, I’d really like to talk about what I want you to have.
Kris Carr
00:47:34 – 00:47:43
And they shut the loved one down and say, I don’t wanna talk about this. This isn’t positive. Oh, don’t worry about it. You’ve got plenty of time. La la la.
Kris Carr
00:47:43 – 00:48:07
That’s all coming from that person’s own discomfort, which I honor. But for the person who’s dying or struggling with mortality that you know, may have less time than you, it can be very isolating, create a lot more loneliness and a lot more discomfort. So it’s these opportunities that we have to really, like, grow up and show up.
Victoria Volk
00:48:08 – 00:48:11
Grow up and show up. Suck it up, buttercup.
Kris Carr
00:48:14 – 00:48:22
You know, you don’t want to. Like, I didn’t I really didn’t wanna put on my, like, big grown up panties, but I was like, I can do it now. When are you gonna do it?
Victoria Volk
00:48:23 – 00:48:32
But it is. It’s it’s the ability to okay. These are my emotions. I’m just gonna park them to the side before I walk in the store so that I can be fully present and give my loved one what they need.
Kris Carr
00:48:33 – 00:48:33
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:48:34 – 00:48:36
And so that they feel heard.
Victoria Volk
00:48:36 – 00:49:09
And that is very difficult to do. And I think when you save those conversations for the death bed, that time could be spent having rich, meaningful conversations. And so I think it’s the importance of us planning for ourselves ahead of time so that we can have those deeper conversations and we’re not worried about the logistics after we’re gone. I think that’s the biggest service we can give our loved ones that we have power to do, I think.
Kris Carr
00:49:09 – 00:49:25
Yeah. The second intention so I wanna just I’ll remind that you’ve when everyone listening, the first intention that was helpful for me, I throw it out if it’s gonna be helpful for anyone else, is to lead with love. You know, like, I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how to show up.
Kris Carr
00:49:25 – 00:49:50
What would love do? What would love say? What does leading with love look like? And then just do that. And then the second thing is an intention that I set for myself, and this really helped me in the difficult conversations that I thought I would literally implode or come undone or just like, evaporate in my chair because they were so scary and big and hard in my mind was, how do I minimize my regrets?
Victoria Volk
00:49:51 – 00:49:51
Mmm
Kris Carr
00:49:53 – 00:50:11
What’s it gonna take for me to minimize my regrets? Am I gonna regret that I didn’t have the courage to have this conversation when my loved one wanted to have it? Yes. I am gonna regret that. Is that fear of that regret bigger than my lack of courage right now?
Kris Carr
00:50:11 – 00:50:14
Yes. There’s your answer.
Victoria Volk
00:50:16 – 00:50:19
The answers are in the deeper questions, really.
Kris Carr
00:50:19 – 00:50:20
Not easy.
Victoria Volk
00:50:21 – 00:51:03
You talk about caregiving and giving versus receiving, and being I loved how you said this, but being a giver you felt like nothing could ever be taken away from me. And you said, listen to the whispers before they become roars. And so just the act of like caregiving versus giving. And, you know, I think just in reading your story, reading the book, which I highly recommend everybody does because there’s so many layers to yours to your book that I would love to cover all of those in this podcast. But can you just speak to a little bit for those who are in the caregiving role and people who have always been the giver, giver, giver, giver, giver, giver, and then they find themselves in the giving role.
Victoria Volk
00:51:03 – 00:51:24
And then like yourself where you’re diagnosed and then you’re having to receive and the challenge of that. And then you’re having you’re you’re needing like, not needing support, but being faced with this grief of a different kind of grief right, with your chosen father. Again, here, I’m asking like, 3 questions in 1. Can you just speak to that giving versus receiving a little bit?
Kris Carr
00:51:25 – 00:51:42
Yeah. I think it’s helpful for each of us if we struggle with receiving, to really get to the nugget of the why. Because the nugget of the why has freedom for us. And for me, it was actually really as a result of writing this book. Because when you write, you have to figure shit out.
Victoria Volk
00:51:43 – 00:51:43
uh-huh mmm.
Kris Carr
00:51:43 – 00:51:57
You have to be able to articulate it. You have to be able to understand it. It’s not just an esoteric feeling or vibe that you have. And for me, I was like, wow. It wasn’t until I wrote that sentence that pieces of me came together.
Kris Carr
00:51:58 – 00:52:15
Yeah. And I knew that somewhere, but I didn’t really understand it. And it goes back to that core trauma of loss, of abandonment. So if I’m the giver, nothing can be taken from me. If I receive, something can be taken from me.
Kris Carr
00:52:16 – 00:52:32
So what does that hit? Big core wound for me. So if we if not everybody struggles with this, but if you do, you know, like, get to the heart of the tootsie roll pop. And you’d be surprised what’s there. And the oh, I can spend some time with this.
Kris Carr
00:52:32 – 00:53:00
And then it becomes easier to receive because we need to receive when we’re going through these difficult times. We need self-care practices. We need to keep our well not full because that’s not possible. But not running on empty that you’re going into burnout and then, you know, adrenal issues and physical illness and all the stuff that comes with it. So we’re not looking for perfection here.
Kris Carr
00:53:00 – 00:53:41
I have the full tank, and I’m all spiffy, and I’ve just had a lifestyle makeover, and I’m living my best life. It’s, like, not gonna happen when we’re going through a difficult time. But, boy, do those difficult times make us grow and evolve and become people we really wanna be. I think just to button up self-care, understanding why we might have resistance around receiving, and then as caregivers, making sure that we’re putting our masks on and we’re taking care of ourselves so that we can be as resilient as possible, as stress hardy as possible, because it’s a roller coaster. And I always encourage people to come to the day with as much as they possibly can.
Kris Carr
00:53:42 – 00:53:44
And we can’t do that when we’re on empty.
Victoria Volk
00:53:45 – 00:54:10
You talk about having 2 intentions for the book, like, for the audience, those reading it and for you to normalize conversations around the different emotions so that people feel less alone and crazy and that to heal the deeper parts of yourself as a result of this writing. And you kind of touched on one of those. But what did you learn about and heal for yourself while you’re writing it and since the book has been out?
Kris Carr
00:54:12 – 00:55:20
You know, you write the book and then you think it’s one thing, and then you talk about the book and it becomes something else.
Victoria Volk
00:54:20 – 00:54:20
Mmm..
Kris Carr
00:54:21 – 00:55:04
And, so the whole process is very illuminating. And I’d say my biggest growth edge has been my willingness to talk about really difficult things, even more difficult things than my own diagnosis. And you read that vulnerability is a strength, and it can be a meme and a TED Talk and all the things. But then I think for me, until I really allow myself to go to a more vulnerable place, And I did push myself in the book to tell the stories the way they were and not a polished version that would be more appropriate for Instagram, that I did find a real strength in that.
Kris Carr
00:55:04 – 00:55:17
And the strength in that vulnerability isn’t a hard strength. It’s a soft strength. That strength and that softness of vulnerability, something I’m still exploring and experiencing but really enjoying.
Victoria Volk
00:55:19 – 00:55:21
Do you have any regrets?
Kris Carr
00:55:24 – 00:55:51
My dad wanted to have a celebration of life on Zoom while he was still alive, in addition to the celebration of life that he had and we had when he was gone, and I couldn’t do it. And I said, I can’t do that. I can’t do that. No. And it didn’t happen, and I regret that.
Victoria Volk
00:55:55 – 00:56:01
Is there anything else you would like to share, or do you have a little bit of time where I can ask a few more questions?
Kris Carr
00:56:02 – 00:56:06
Yeah. I can definitely do a little more time? Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:56:07 – 00:56:07
Okay.
Kris Carr
00:56:08 – 00:56:09
Maybe 5 minutes or so.
Victoria Volk
00:56:09 – 00:56:18
Okay. Let me just look here. I wanna make sure I’m picking the one I wanted to pick. Oh, yeah. This is one thing you hear a lot.
Victoria Volk
00:56:18 – 00:56:34
Like, especially after people pass away. They lost their battle to cancer or they’re losing the battle. Did you have moments that you felt this or was this outside messaging? And what do you think about this messaging?
Kris Carr
00:56:36 – 00:56:58
I think every patient is different. It is not my preferred messaging for myself because I live with cancer, so I don’t see that I’m warring with my body. I think that I have cancer in my liver and both of my lungs. Those organs need more support. Those organs are struggling.
Kris Carr
00:56:58 – 00:57:16
Why am I gonna beat them up? Why you know what I mean? I wanna learn more about them so I can care for them and see what they like and what they don’t like. And, again, going back to that part of, like, amputating parts of ourselves. I was worrying with my body way before cancer
Victoria Volk
00:57:16 – 00:57:16
Mmm..
Kris Carr
00:57:17 – 00:57:20
of you know, other things I didn’t like about myself or my weight or whatever it was at the time.
Kris Carr
00:57:21 – 00:57:36
Just always in a fight with my body. And it’s like, gosh, this body does so much on a daily basis to keep me alive. Things I could never even wrap my mind around. It’s a miracle. It’s like I wanna be on the side of my body, not fighting against it.
Kris Carr
00:57:36 – 00:58:07
So that, again, does not work for me. I think my biggest pet peeve is when people who don’t have cancer use cancer metaphors. Like, I don’t get triggered by a lot of things. I’m not a you know, I’m not a I don’t really walk on eggshells or things like this, but it does bother me when people use cancer metaphors of like, that behavior is a cancer or that person is a metastasis or you know, a lot of folks use that. And so I would say, don’t do that.
Victoria Volk
00:58:08 – 00:58:08
Mhmm.
Kris Carr
00:58:09 – 00:58:13
Doesn’t feel good for people who actually have cancer.
Victoria Volk
00:58:13 – 00:58:23
Right. Thank you for sharing that. What is something about you that many people don’t know? It’s not in the books. You haven’t said it before.
Victoria Volk
00:58:23 – 00:58:28
I guess you answered maybe the one regret. Maybe I have I don’t know if you’ve said that before, but
Kris Carr
00:58:28 – 00:58:43
No. I’ve never said that before. People don’t know about me. Well, I have said a lot of things about me because I do use my stories. My teaching method, I like to teach through stories.
Kris Carr
00:58:44 – 00:59:02
Well, I have been into Budweiser Super Bowl commercials.
Victoria Volk
00:58:47 – 00:58:47
What?
Kris Carr
00:58:47 – 00:59:02
In my previous career as an actor, and as somebody who did a lot of TV commercials and a lot of advertising, I was into Budweiser Super Bowl, bowl commercials.
Victoria Volk
00:59:03 – 00:59:04
That’s pretty cool.
Kris Carr
00:59:06 – 00:59:07
That’s cool.
Victoria Volk
00:59:09 – 00:59:17
Too bad it couldn’t have been, well, the Budweiser well, it was I thought the best one this past Super Bowl was the Dunkings. Dunkings.
Kris Carr
00:59:18 – 00:59:27
That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I usually watch the commercials because it was just, like, a very big part of my career but I didn’t watch them this year. But this really is kinda like the Oscars of advertising.
Victoria Volk
00:59:27 – 00:59:27
Yeah.
Kris Carr
00:59:28 – 00:59:28
So
Victoria Volk
00:59:29 – 00:59:39
that’s that’s very cool. Okay. Well, I will leave it there. I think that’s a fun. We’ll leave it on a fun note.
Kris Carr
00:59:39 – 00:59:39
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:59:39 – 00:59:53
And, because if I ask another question, it’s gonna be a deep run, probably. So you just have to read the book, my friends, because all the questions I’d probably ask her in the book. Anything else you would like to share, though?
Kris Carr
00:59:54 – 01:00:08
No. Thank you so much. This is a beautiful interview, and I’m so appreciative of the places that you took it. I really love having these transparent, honest conversations. Again, going back to how have you grown?
Kris Carr
01:00:08 – 01:00:16
What have you learned? And these are the conversations I wanna have. So thank you for allowing me to have one with you and with your community.
Victoria Volk
01:00:17 – 01:00:26
Thank you. I purposefully did not watch any of your other podcast interviews or listened to anything else because I just wanted to stay in my own lane
Kris Carr
01:00:26 – 01:00:26
Yeey!
Victoria Volk
01:00:27 – 01:00:29
because I can’t let’s see. Like, I have so much did you see the highlight?
Kris Carr
01:00:29 – 01:00:31
Oh my gosh.
Victoria Volk
01:00:31 – 01:00:59
I don’t know why I do that screen like that, but there’s so many. I’ve highlights and doggy ears, and it just really I really enjoyed the book. If people are uncomfortable with grief, I think it’s a wonderful story. You again, like you said, you I think teaching through story is the best way to share information. It’s something I think I personally need to do more of.
Victoria Volk
01:00:59 – 01:01:20
And so thank you for writing this book. I think it’s wonderful for people who are going through something that can maybe see a different perspective through a lens of someone who’s been living it for so long in so many different ways.
Kris Carr
01:01:17 – 01:01:17
Mmm
Victoria Volk
01:00:17 – 01:01:20
It’s a great example of grief and the many faces of it. So thank you.
Kris Carr
01:01:20 – 01:01:21
Thanks, Victoria.
Victoria Volk
01:01:22 – 01:01:24
And where can people find you?
Kris Carr
01:01:24 – 01:01:34
You can find me at kriscarr.com. You can find me on Instagram at @crazysexykris, and the book is available anywhere books are sold.
Victoria Volk
01:01:34 – 01:01:42
And I will put links in the show notes. Remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Educational, Grieving Voices Guest, Life with Human Design, Parenting, Pespective |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Are you ready to embark on a journey that could transform your understanding of purpose, parenting, and personal healing?
This week on Grieving Voices, I welcomed Alexandra Cole, a former corporate consultant turned human design coach. After a decade in the Fortune 500 sector, Alexandra pivoted to guiding individuals and families in finding their purpose through human design—a system that combines astrology, I Ching, Kabbalah, and the chakras.
Born in London and raised in Amsterdam with an education from Princeton University, she now resides in Santa Barbara with her husband and young son. Her journey into motherhood inspired “Thriving by Design,” a toolkit designed for parents to understand their child’s unique traits.
Alexandra shares her personal story of loss—losing her mother at age ten—and how it shaped her emotional world. She explains how understanding one’s own human design can be instrumental during grief and aiding parents to align better with their children’s innate designs.
She discusses the five energy types within human design: Manifestors (initiators), Projectors (guides), Generators, & Manifesting Generators (consistent workers who need joy-based work). Each type has different ways of investing energy for fulfillment and purpose. The conversation also delves into parenting aligned with your child’s energy type—such important information and particularly helpful when parenting grieving children.
This insightful discussion highlights how embracing our inherent nature according to our human design can lead us toward more authentic and aligned lives.
If you’re curious about how your unique blueprint can shape your way forward—in joyous times or challenging ones—I encourage you to learn your human design and listen to this episode because sometimes the most authentic path is the one that is tailor-made just for us.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
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NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Unlocking the Power of Human Design in Grieving, Parenting, and Self-Discovery
In today’s fast-paced world, where change is constant and life often throws us curveballs, understanding ourselves and our loved ones can sometimes feel like deciphering an enigmatic puzzle. But what if there was a blueprint—a design—that could help us navigate these complexities with greater ease? Enter Human Design, a revolutionary system that combines ancient wisdom with modern science to offer profound insights into our personalities.
Recently on Grieving Voices, we had the pleasure of hosting Alexandra Cole—once a corporate consultant for Fortune 500 companies who has now found her calling as a human design coach. With her international background and diverse experiences shaping her approach to coaching, she shared how human design has become an invaluable tool for personal growth during grief, enhancing parenting techniques, and managing life’s myriad challenges.
The Transformation Journey: From Corporate Consulting to Human Design
Alexandra’s journey from advising corporations to coaching individuals speaks volumes about the transformative power of purpose. Her work through “Thriving by Design” demonstrates how aligning one’s career with their inner calling can lead not only to personal fulfillment but also make significant impacts on others’ lives.
Understanding Ourselves Through Grief
Grief is unique to every individual; it shapes itself around each person’s energy type. Alexandra emphasizes that knowing your human design can reveal personalized paths for healing when you’re navigating loss or adversity. For example:
– **Manifestors** may need solitude to initiate their own grieving process.
– **Projectors** might seek deep understanding before they can find closure.
– **Generators** require activities that reignite their spark amidst sorrow.
– **Manifesting Generators**, much like generators but with added complexity due to their multifaceted nature.
– Lastly,** Reflectors**, whose sensitivity means they deeply mirror those around them—and thus may absorb collective grief which needs careful navigation.
By recognizing these patterns within ourselves based on our energy types in times of mourning or crisis—we allow space for compassion towards self-healing journeys tailored just right for us.
Parental Guidance Enhanced by Human Design
Parenting is arguably one of life’s most challenging yet rewarding roles—and here too human design offers remarkable guidance. By acknowledging each child’s unique energy type (be it Manifestor or Reflector), parents are better equipped at fostering environments where children thrive authentically rather than conforming them into ill-fitting societal molds.
For instance:
– Encourage your child when you see them light up doing something they love—this physical response signals alignment with their true nature.
– Recognize that while Generators have abundant energy reserves—they must be wary not becoming ‘yes people’, overcommitting themselves away from joyous pursuits
– Understand Reflectors’ need for supportive surroundings given their heightened sensitivities reflecting back the health—or dis-ease—of communities around them
This knowledge doesn’t just cultivate healthier relationships between parent-child dynamics; it paves the way toward nurturing well-rounded individuals grounded in self-awareness from early stages onward.
Better Relationships Through Energetic Understanding
Human design isn’t limited solely to introspection—it extends outwardly enrichening relational dynamics too! Partnerships benefit immensely when both parties respect differing energetic requirements (imagine respecting your partner’s need for dynamic mornings versus quiet evenings). This framework fosters deeper empathy & effective communication leading towards harmonious co-existence amid diversity in temperaments & preferences alike!
Resources at Your Fingertips
Alexandra provides multiple avenues through which anyone interested can delve further into this transformative field:
1) Personal sessions via alexandracole.com
2) Wellness products including customized reports at thrivingbydesign.com
3) Her book “The Purpose Playbook”, guides readers towards living out authentic purposes
These resources serve as tools aiding one along paths whether seeking solace during grief-stricken times or simply aspiring towards more aligned living overall – all underscored by honoring inherent uniqueness above external expectations thrust upon us!
As we wrapped up our conversation filled with gratitude & enlightenment —it became clear why nurturing individuality holds paramount importance across facets ranging from parenting strategies down even unto embracing personal narratives woven uniquely within tapestries called ‘life’.
To live authentically—isn’t just sound advice—it’s foundational ethos empowering thriving existences no matter what storms come ashore!
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:27
Thank you so much for tuning in to grieving voices. I’m very excited to, bring a guest. We haven’t had a guest in a little while here on the podcast. And today, Alexandra Cole is joining me. She is a former corporate consultant turned human design coach after a decade of helping fortune 500 identify and articulate their why she pivoted to help individuals, families, and couples do the same.
Victoria Volk
00:00:27 – 00:01:18
She uses human design as a tool to help her clients pursue their purpose with more clarity and confidence. Alexander is passionate about translating insights from her clients, human design charts into actionable strategies for optimizing their relationships, well-being, careers, finances, and family life. She was born in London, raised in Amsterdam, educated at Princeton University, and now lives in Santa Barbara, California with her husband and 2 year old son. Becoming a mother inspired her to create thriving by design, a collection of tools, cheat sheets, and online courses designed to give parents insight into their child’s unique sensitivities, preferences, and gifts, as well as tactical tips for how to support them. Alexandra is happiest when moving her body, eating good food, exploring new places, and in deep conversation with new or old friends.
Victoria Volk
00:01:19 – 00:01:35
I love that. I love deep conversation too. And I love human design, and I honestly can’t even remember how I got into your sphere, but I did. And you share the same name as my middle Alexandra. I love the name.
Victoria Volk
00:01:35 – 00:01:53
Beautiful name. But there was something I found interesting when I was looking into, I don’t know, I opened an email, then you you know, you get down a rabbit hole. And then I found your wellness. The wellness design report or well by well by design report. And that’s how we kind of connected.
Victoria Volk
00:01:53 – 00:02:30
And I’m just thinking, like, gosh, this would be a really good topic for to bring on the podcast for people, especially particularly grievers who, you know, sometimes you just don’t know what you need. And this well by design report can be a good place to start. Like, if I just wanna feel better, how can I feel better that is aligned with who I am and how I was created and how I was made? Right? And, and I absolutely love also the idea of arming parents with information and knowledge to help them be let’s see.
Victoria Volk
00:02:30 – 00:02:37
What’s the word I wanna use? A more aligned parent for their child.
Alexandra Cole
00:02:32 – 00:02:32
Yeah. 100%
Victoria Volk
00:02:33 – 00:02:37
Based on their child’s design. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:02:37 – 00:02:37
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:02:38 – 00:03:00
Because if youngest is 15, if I would have known what I know now about human design, about my own design, about my kids, All 3 of them are manifesting generators. I’m a manifester. Like, I was exhausted. Like, motherhood, like, totally exhausted me to the point where, like, you can question, like, oh my god.
Victoria Volk
00:03:00 – 00:03:02
What did I sign up for?
Alexandra Cole
00:03:03 – 00:03:12
I can only imagine. I have one little manifesting generator, and that’s already a lot. I can’t imagine having 3 of them running around.
Victoria Volk
00:03:12 – 00:03:16
And they’re all, like, the first 2 or 18 months apart and the yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:03:16 – 00:03:16
Wow.
Victoria Volk
00:03:16 – 00:03:20
Yeah. I had 3 under in 5 under 5 years. So
Alexandra Cole
00:03:20 – 00:04:21
That’s impressive. Especially as a manifester, that is incredibly impressive. And, I mean, I would also say too, from a grief perspective, I think both of us lost a parent very young in life. And if I had understood my design better or if, God forbid, anything like that ever happens in my immediate family, having human design as a tool to just better understand a child’s emotional world and how they’re designed to navigate these types of major traumas and just life changing events, especially when it comes to kind of your environment and how that shifts. It allows you to show up in a much more kind of supportive way for that child because you know exactly kind of what their patterning is and how to, yes, align with that and support that in how you are tending to them and caring for them.
Victoria Volk
00:04:21 – 00:04:39
I really wanna get to your story in how you got to where you are in with human design and how this all came to be. And so would you please take us back in time and to that loss and how like, what transpired in the in between?
Alexandra Cole
00:04:40 – 00:05:22
Oh, man. That loss was early on and probably well before, obviously, human design even was at all in my kind of frame of reference, but I lost my mom to breast cancer at age 10. I’m the oldest of 3 kids, and at the time, we were living in the Netherlands. And my dad did an incredible job of kind of stepping in and trying to play Mom and Dad, we were surrounded by an incredible support system. So all things considered, I look back and can only feel grateful in a way for having experienced it in the way that I did.
Alexandra Cole
00:05:22 – 00:06:25
But nonetheless, right, at 10 years old, experiencing such a huge loss, especially as the eldest child, I think, forced me to grow up very very quickly and forced me to kind of grapple with some of these, like, bigger life questions, a lot earlier on than the average 10 year old, let’s say. So I think I was quite a mature teenager in terms of my life experience, but also kind of, like, my way of connecting and understanding others. And especially when it came to my emotional world, I was very aware of all the emotions I was feeling. I just didn’t necessarily feel like it was appropriate for me to express those anymore because I wanted to be strong for my family. So for a good 8 years, I shut down my own kind of emotional response and probably a huge part of that grieving process.
Alexandra Cole
00:06:26 – 00:07:01
Until fast forward at 18, I moved from the Netherlands to the United States, and my mom had actually studied in the United States. So it was kind of a little bit of, like, following in her footsteps. And I get here, and within the 1st year, I fall madly in love with this American man. And it was the first time since losing my mom that I had this huge fear of losing this individual and the impact that that might have. And it kind of actually opened the door for me to experience grief because I was, 1, I think, far enough removed from my family where I felt like I could do that.
Alexandra Cole
00:07:01 – 00:07:55
And 2, I had this trigger of someone I cared so deeply about, and the thought of losing him was, like, such a kind of miserable like, the the pain was, like, so great associated with that that I allowed myself to finally grieve, and I think I cried. Like, basically, I made up for those 8 years of not shedding a tear. And this poor man, who I’m now married to, so I can I can say this? Like, he was incredible, but he probably didn’t understand everything that I was kind of processing and going through at the moment itself. Anyway, fast forward a few years, I graduated college and picked the path of least resistance in the sense that I very much went down the road that I felt like everyone expected me to and that I felt pressured to in a way, which was a very kind of corporate path in management consulting.
Alexandra Cole
00:07:56 – 00:08:29
And I kinda had most of my life planned out. I was a very kind of a logical, rational thinker when it came to kind of where I thought I was heading. And maybe that was also part of all of those years of kind of shutting down that emotional world even though my emotions, especially according to human design, are my most trustworthy inner compass. I just wasn’t listening to them. A few years into that career, a friend of mine asked me to help her brainstorm a new business idea that she had.
Alexandra Cole
00:08:30 – 00:09:09
And I would meet with her before work. I would meet with her after work, and I was doing 12 to 16 hour days. So this was like a commitment to meet with her, but I became so passionate about what it was that she was working on to the point that she eventually asked me to leave my job and cofound this company with her. And I think I thought about it for maybe a few days and felt this full body just yes in response to it. It was a complete conviction that this was what I was meant to do, and it came from this place of genuine excitement and passion.
Alexandra Cole
00:09:10 – 00:09:28
And it was such a departure from how I had lived my life before, which was very much kind of like, mind oriented that the fact and I did. I ended up leaving my job, starting this company with her, and we had no clients. We had no track record. We had no funding. We had no experience.
Alexandra Cole
00:09:28 – 00:10:07
Nothing. We made it all work, but it was a few months after that that I reflected on this this leap and how I was able to make it with so much confidence and conviction when really there was, you know, no logical reason to do so. And it set me on this path of self development, trying to better understand what that was inside of me and why I finally allowed that to make the decision instead of the kind of rational brain. And that’s what ultimately led me to discover human design, which told me, like, hey. Listen.
Alexandra Cole
00:10:07 – 00:10:52
You’re actually here to listen to your gut, to listen to your emotions. And the more I started leaning into that, the more myself I felt. Like, I had I realized that for those past, like, 10, 12 years, I had been kind of a you know, trying again to live up to this expectation that I thought other people had of me, of who I needed to be for them in that moment, and had lost the essence of who I was along the way. And so that’s really what human design allowed me to do. And after several years of just kind of using it to heal myself and to allow myself to grieve in many ways, I started using it with other people, friends and family at first.
Alexandra Cole
00:10:52 – 00:11:14
And over the course of a few years, it kind of blossomed into this side hustle and then something more than a side hustle. And now here I am working with clients every day, helping them better understand, you know, the most aligned use of their energy and how to become a more authentic version of themselves.
Victoria Volk
00:11:15 – 00:11:56
I’m curious too for you. I’m sure I already know the answer. But what if what human design has helped me to is to better understand the environment in which I lived with the people that I shared it with. Right? So for instance, especially a parent, you know, if you don’t have their exact details, you know, birthplace and things like that, it can be a little difficult, but what did that give you when you, when you started to learn more about human design and, and for being so young and losing your mother, did it help you to really get to know her in a way that you couldn’t because she’d passed, you know, through her human design?
Alexandra Cole
00:11:57 – 00:12:06
Such a good question. Yes. It did really help me with that. And, also, it helped me see certain parts of myself that I share with her. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:12:06 – 00:12:47
And also understand why certain aspects of her are so memorable to me and other parts, you know, you it’s it’s hard for you to understand unless someone else kinda tells a story and you’re like, like, oh, right. I guess she was like that too. One thing that human design really helped me understand, though, is the fact that so my dad is also an emotional. He’s an emotional manifesting generator, and my brother and sister are non emotionals. And so for people who aren’t familiar with human design, what this means is that both my dad and I experience the world first and foremost through our own emotional lens.
Alexandra Cole
00:12:47 – 00:13:34
Like, we have this inherent emotional bias about how we are experiencing everything around us. And we feel our own emotions first and foremost, and they’re very much supposed to inform how we operate. My brother and sister, they feel other people’s emotions first and foremost. So their kind of experience of the world is more shaped by other people’s emotions, and they sometimes have a harder time distinguishing where they end and where someone else begins. And I think with if you think about our kind of family unit, obviously, my dad is going through an insurmountable amount of grief and was making a concerted effort to actually share that grief with us.
Alexandra Cole
00:13:34 – 00:13:43
Right? He took the approach of, I wanna be open with my kids. I wanna talk about how sad I am. Right? And so he did that.
Alexandra Cole
00:13:44 – 00:14:09
But because both my brother and sister are open emotions, they were incredibly sensitive to that. So they picked up on everything and then started kind of absorbing it and carrying that weight. And I think as a 10 year old, I intuitively saw that and decided, you know, there’s not there’s no space for another emotional in this family. Right? Like, I can’t do that same thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:14:09 – 00:15:00
So I’m just gonna kind of, like, shut mine down so that my dad can have that space and we can kind of all absorb or at least maybe even with my siblings. Like, I’m gonna try and shield them from my dad’s emotions, right, instead of add to that kind of, like, fire hose effect. Like, recognizing that and the role that made forced me to play has been really helpful, not just in kind of making sense of kind of my journey, but also making sense in my relationship with my dad and why certain things that he does trigger me so much. Right? And so I think those that, especially in these past kind of 5 years in becoming a mom, I’ve reflected on this a lot, and human design has definitely been, invaluable in that process.
Victoria Volk
00:15:02 – 00:15:05
And how has that shaped how you parent your son?
Alexandra Cole
00:15:05 – 00:15:37
So my son is also an emotional, and my husband is a nonemotional. So I think just knowing what I know about human design, the biggest takeaway here is that kids, a lot of it is nature. Right? They come into this world with a certain set of patterns and behaviors and sensitivities. And as parents, there’s this tendency to want to kind of manage and control that.
Alexandra Cole
00:15:37 – 00:15:55
And we think that’s that we’re protecting them in a way. Right? We think we’re we’re setting them up for success. But, really, what I’ve learned is that the best thing you can do as a parent is kind of do less. Like, step back and allow them to kind of grow into that little human they’re designed to be.
Alexandra Cole
00:15:55 – 00:16:40
And having their human design chart makes that much easier because you can kind of see, oh, wait. Actually, they’re living their design because especially when who they’re designed to be might be different from you or opposite from you in terms of how their emotions work or how they’re designed to communicate or make decisions. We only know what we know and we look at the world again through that kind of, like, biased lens. And so when you’re raising a child, it’s really hard to let go of that, and human design has allowed me to do that. So, for example, when my son has an emotional reaction to something, and he’s a very emotional child because his first reaction is always gonna be this, like, big emotional outburst.
Alexandra Cole
00:16:40 – 00:16:48
My husband’s response to that typically is, you’re okay. You’re okay. You’re okay. There’s no need cry. No tears.
Alexandra Cole
00:16:48 – 00:17:10
No tears. Right? Like, that’s just because he is not emotional, so he doesn’t understand the significance of allowing yourself to kind of feel those feelings. I, on the other hand, and now I’ve also, you know, not trained, but coached my husband to respond in a similar way, I will just give my son a big hug and say, let it out. Let’s ride this emotional wave together.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:10 – 00:17:34
Right? Like, tell me what you’re feeling. Tell me what happened. Right? And I don’t ever try to shut that down because I know that this if I start to kind of manipulate his emotional experience, he is gonna lose it’s like losing a limb, right, for him because it’s such an important way of how he is designed to make sense of the world.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:35 – 00:17:50
And if he doesn’t feel like he can trust it or he feels like it’s wrong to respond emotionally, he’s gonna do what I did for 8 years and pay the price. So that’s just one small example of how I’m using this as a parent.
Victoria Volk
00:17:50 – 00:17:57
And when it comes to grief, that is a massively important example. Massively.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:57 – 00:17:57
Yes. Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:17:58 – 00:18:15
And if you if your child is a manifester, good luck to you. Oh. I know. You know, I’ve learned, like, I was probably just an some sort of enigma to my mother. Like but you know what?
Victoria Volk
00:18:15 – 00:18:23
I learned that my mother was is a projector, which I was like, woah. That makes sense.
Alexandra Cole
00:18:24 – 00:18:47
Yeah. That makes so much sense. And that’s one of the things that I love about human design is it does give it allows you to see other people in a much more objective way, where you can start to understand, oh, this is why I must have been so challenging for my mom. Right? And it is just it doesn’t excuse any behavior.
Alexandra Cole
00:18:47 – 00:19:25
It just gives you a different lens through which to kind of witness and observe and see the things that happened, because, yeah, as a manifester, right, part of what you’re here to do is to trigger people, like, in a way. Right? Like, you are here to challenge people. And sometimes that can feel really uncomfortable. And if as a parent, you’re not cut out for that or you don’t know how to handle that and you’re not aware of where that’s coming from, it can be really challenging.
Alexandra Cole
00:19:25 – 00:19:41
And she would just have wanted to kind of shut your manifesting tendencies down. Right? Or in an effort to protect you, she’s like, you can’t be this big. I need to, like, I need to limit this person. I need to kind of, like, you know, encourage them to control it.
Alexandra Cole
00:19:42 – 00:19:52
Exactly. Exactly. When, really, what a manifester kid needs to be able to do is, like, do their thing. And with complete freedom, throw a tantrum. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:19:52 – 00:20:12
Like, let it out, get angry, and move on. But if you tell them, like, you can’t do that, that’s not appropriate, That manifestor is gonna grow up to be a shell of who they actually could be. Because, again, they don’t trust any of those, like, inner voices that are communicating to them constantly or trying to.
Victoria Volk
00:20:13 – 00:20:27
Amen to that. I can tell you wholeheartedly. Because I first discovered human design, like, a little over a year ago.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:20 – 00:20:20
Wow!
Victoria Volk
00:20:20 – 00:20:26
So it has been like yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:27 – 00:20:27
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:20:27 – 00:20:53
Mind blowing. So since we’re on this topic, can you quickly run down do a rundown of, like, the child You describe the child manifestor because that’s what I am. But can you quickly just kinda describe the other types, energy types.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:40 – 00:20:40
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:20:40 – 00:20:53
Children, for people who are listening, who may feel like there’s I I think this can help with conflict within parent child dynamics. So I think it’s I’m glad the conversation went here.
Victoria Volk
00:20:53 – 00:20:53
So.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:54 – 00:21:20
Absolutely. And as I describe it too, this also applies to adults, and to inner children. Like, a lot of the time when I talk about when I, you know, share content through that parenting lens, I get responses from people that say, you know, this helped me so much to heal my inner child Mhmm. And trauma that I experienced as a kid, just understanding what that, like, little version of me must have been experiencing in that moment. So there’s 5 energy types.
Alexandra Cole
00:21:20 – 00:22:13
And just kind of at a very high level, this whole system, human design, essentially, it’s based on your birth time date and place and the energetic frequency that was present in the exact moment you took your first breath. And you wanna imagine it’s like you were imprinted with this energetic frequency. And the chart itself is like that, like, blueprint to how your energy is designed to operate in the most authentic and the most effortless way. Right? Like, when you are listening to that blueprint and operating in alignment with it, there’s this element of flow to life where you’re still gonna encounter challenging situations, but you’ll move through them with a sense of confidence and conviction and trust in your own kind of inner authority to be able to overcome those things.
Alexandra Cole
00:22:14 – 00:23:12
So the foundation of this system is something that we call an energy type, and I often describe it as, like, the outer layer of the onion where there are so many more nuanced layers to the system that get into an incredible amount of detail in terms of, you know, how you’re designed to eat, the types of environments that are most supportive for you, how you’re designed to communicate and emote and all those things. But the first piece to understand is your energy type. There’s 5 different energy types, and each type has a slightly different way of investing energy in order to get the greatest return on that investment in terms of fulfillment and purpose and reward. So we talked about the manifestor and the manifestor little kid. Manifestors, their energy is designed to be quite extreme in terms of highs and lows.
Alexandra Cole
00:23:12 – 00:23:55
Like, they’ll have these, like, huge creative emotional bursts where literally they can go for days on this, like, energetic high, and then it’ll come crashing down and they will need to rest, reset, recharge. But, ultimately, that’s because manifestor’s role in this world is to initiate, to create things, to challenge that status quo and initiate newness and novelty. And so you need a lot of, like, powerful energy to do that, and you also need to not give a damn about everyone else around you. And that’s that triggering piece that I was talking about. And that’s why when you meet a little manifestor kid, they’re just off doing their thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:23:55 – 00:24:04
Right? Like, they get this urge. They need to, you know, dig a hole in the garden. And they just grab the shovel, and they just start digging. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:24:04 – 00:24:27
They’re not here to ask for permission. They’re not here to look for validation. They’re just here to follow those urges and convictions. And as a parent, again, that can be really triggering because we’re told we have to control our kids, and our kids’ behavior is a reflection on us. And so when that kid just grabs that shovel without asking and starts digging, your immediate reaction is, hey.
Alexandra Cole
00:24:27 – 00:24:54
You didn’t you didn’t ask me. We can’t just do that. Right? And so you can imagine how that leads to a lot of pressure and conditioning for that child to not be themselves and to adapt and adjust. And suddenly, these manifestors start to ask for permission and look for validation, which prevents them from starting the magical movements and things that they are supposed to.
Alexandra Cole
00:24:54 – 00:25:37
So that’s the manifestor kit. Then the second kind of, group I’d like to talk about are projectors. So projectors make up about 20% of the population, and projectors are very much the kind of guides. So if manifestors are here to kind of initiate and be the spark, Projectors are here to refine and guide and optimize. And so projectors actually have a much more moderate ebb and flow of energy, and they are really most effective when they can focus on one thing at a time and dedicate themselves to something for a short intense burst of time, and then they too need to kind of rest and reset.
Alexandra Cole
00:25:37 – 00:26:15
So projector kids are the types of kids that, one, are gonna be fascinated by how things work and kind of optimizing or understanding how to, kind of improve or better something. Like, they love fixing and solving things. And they’re gonna be able to kind of sit quietly working on a puzzle or with some type of toy for that, like, kind of short intense burst of time. And then they’re going to need to kind of rest their mind and sit back and almost observe. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:26:15 – 00:26:50
There’s a there’s a lot of power for a projector in just being free to observe instead of there being pressure to actually create or output. Projectors sometimes, though, because they have that ability to see how something can be done better, they can come across as quite critical. And if they tend to kind of share their insights and observations without being invited to do so, it can come across as a little bit of a, like, know it all. Right? Or, again, overly, like, a glass half-empty kind of thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:26:50 – 00:27:44
And so for projectors, the name of the game is really learning to wait for that invitation, to wait to be recognized, to wait to be acknowledged, to wait for someone to kind of celebrate your ability to problem solve or your natural gifts that all projectors have and kind of invite you to share those. So if you have a projector child, really being mindful that, like, all they want is for you to see them clearly and for you to invite them to share their gifts. They’re not here to go and initiate in the same way that manifestors are. They’re really here to be a little bit more passive until you invite them in. And they also are gonna need a lot of alone time, and they are going to do best when they have your 1 on 1 attention as opposed to, you know, bigger groups of people, which can be quite overwhelming for that projector initially.
Alexandra Cole
00:27:44 – 00:28:34
Now we get to the largest cohort of people, and that is the generators and the manifesting generators. So these two groups together make up about 70% of the population, and that’s because this group’s energy is very consistent. These generators and manifesting generators are here to almost act as, like, the motors of society in the sense that they have this ability to apply themselves in a very consistent, persistent way to things. And they don’t have that ebb and flow as much as the manifestors and the projectors do. Now for generators and manifesting generators, it’s really important that they are applying that energy to think that excitement excite them and bring them joy.
Alexandra Cole
00:28:34 – 00:29:01
So for them, it’s a really kind of physical response that they will feel towards something. Even, you know, if you have a generator, a manifesting generator child, pay attention to what their body does when they are loving what they’re doing. Right? Whether it’s they’re eating their favorite food and you hear them just go, like, mmm, they, like, start making noises. Or my son, when he’s doing something that he really enjoys, he starts to rock back and forth.
Alexandra Cole
00:29:01 – 00:29:28
Right? Or he does this, like, happy dance. It’s a very physical response. And so as a parent, pay attention to where what gives your kids that physical response because that’s a clear telltale sign that they’re meant to do more of it, that it’s a great use of their time and energy. When generators and manifesting generators are forced to do things that don’t really excite them or light them up, it’ll be quite draining.
Alexandra Cole
00:29:28 – 00:30:35
But because they have that consistent source of energy, they don’t necessarily hit that point of burnout like a manifestor or a projector will. And so what’s really hard is that most adult generators and manifesting generators have been conditioned to basically be these martyrs that say yes to every request, do a lot of stuff for other people because it makes that other person happy, and they happen to have the energetic capacity to do so. But they’ve lost touch with what actually brings them joy and what excites them. And so they’re operating at, you know, 50 to 60% of their full potential, and that full potential can only be accessed when they prioritize their own joy and excitement. And so as a parent of a young generator and manifesting generator, helping them recognize that, helping them realize that, like, they don’t have to say yes to doing what other people want them to do, and it is completely valid to prioritize their own needs and what brings them joy, even over yours as the parent.
Alexandra Cole
00:30:35 – 00:31:11
Right? Like, that’s a really important lesson for them to learn. The slight difference between these two types is that whereas generators can be a little bit more focused in their application of energy, manifesting generators are nonlinear beings, and that they have a little bit of that manifestor erratic nature while they will move very quickly from one interest to the other, and they love a variety of things. And they’re like I mean, with my son, for example, I’ve learned to never clean up after him because I think he’s done. And I then, as the generator mom, I’m like, okay.
Alexandra Cole
00:31:11 – 00:31:34
I’m gonna start to organize and clean this up. But, actually, he wants to circle back to it an hour from now after he’s, like, pulled out another 5 other toys. Right? And when we’re on an airplane, I have to have, like, you know, 20 different activities versus if I had a projector child, maybe I just need 3 and he could play with each for an hour. My son needs to just, like, constantly cycle through things.
Alexandra Cole
00:31:35 – 00:32:16
So that’s the generator manifesting generator, and then the very last type is a reflector. And reflectors are just as the name suggests. They’re like these magical unicorn snowflake kids that are highly sensitive and really designed to reflect the health and well-being of whatever community that they are a part of. So they are the product of their environment in many ways, And a reflector is like a mirror. So, if you have a reflector in your family, looking at them and how they’re doing and how they’re showing up and what their health and well-being is like is going to tell you what’s going on with the rest of the family.
Alexandra Cole
00:32:17 – 00:32:44
Because they are constantly absorbing everyone else’s energy, emotions, fears. Right? All of that. And in a way, they are then reflecting that back to you. And so for reflector children, it’s really important for them to understand how to manage this hypersensitivity because it can really throw you.
Alexandra Cole
00:32:44 – 00:33:12
Right? Because you can be feeling totally good, and then one person walks into the room. Right? Or one kid comes to class that day and is dealing with something really, really and you don’t even know what it is, but you feel in your body suddenly this grief or pain or anger that isn’t yours, and yet you’re still experiencing it as if it is. And so that’s something that is a lot for a little child to handle.
Alexandra Cole
00:33:12 – 00:33:57
And you might notice that reflectors do get sick more frequently. They do feel overwhelmed a lot depending and they’re very sensitive to environment, people as well as just, like, the energy and the vibe of the setting that they’re in. So as a parent, the best thing that you can do with a Reflector Child is teach them that a lot of the time what they’re experiencing isn’t actually theirs to carry. Right? And, also, be super mindful of, like, what are the environments and people that they seem most at peace around, and how can I make sure we’re spending most of our time in those types of places and avoiding the people that seem to, like, have the greatest triggering effect on them?
Victoria Volk
00:33:58 – 00:33:59
That was a lot.
Alexandra Cole
00:33:59 – 00:33:59
I know.
Victoria Volk
00:34:00 – 00:34:00
Thank you so much.
Victoria Volk
00:34:00 – 00:34:15
No. In a good way. In a in a good way because I hope people listening can are reflecting on their own lives and take from what you shared and apply it. And, hopefully, they already know their body type or their energy type.
Alexandra Cole
00:34:15 – 00:34:16
Energy type.
Victoria Volk
00:34:16 – 00:34:38
Yep. And or have their design. Right? They know their design. And if you don’t, I’m gonna put a link in the show notes where you can find that information out and then come back and listen to this again and find your children’s human design and listen to this, like, 2 or 3 times if you have to really take in what was shared because I think it’s so important.
Victoria Volk
00:34:38 – 00:34:49
The stuff that we I can’t even imagine being a reflector. Like, that just sounds so exhausting to me. Do I even know a reflector? I don’t even know if I know a reflector.
Alexandra Cole
00:34:50 – 00:34:54
I mean, they’re 1 only 1% of the population. So it’s possible that you don’t.
Victoria Volk
00:34:54 – 00:34:57
Well, in manifestors are, like, 9%. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:34:57 – 00:34:57
Mmm.Yup
Victoria Volk
00:34:57 – 00:35:08
So we’re kind of a rare breed too in a way, but no. Thank you so much for all of that. It’s just good for me. I’ve heard it, you know, I’ve heard it in other ways. And it’s when you hear it a different way, it’s just yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:35:08 – 00:35:27
I really love that. So thank you so much. I wanna go back to, like, your story though, and, like, how this all kind of played out, like, so with your relationship so when you first met your now husband, did you know his human design? Were you into human design? Not not at that time.
Victoria Volk
00:35:27 – 00:35:28
Not yet.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:28 – 00:35:30
Nope. Not yet at all.
Victoria Volk
00:35:30 – 00:35:30
Yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:31 – 00:35:56
Yep. And it’s been I I often credit human design to, you know, the fact that we still have a thriving relationship now 16 years later. Because neither of us were really planning on meeting our person that young. We still wanted to do a lot and travel a lot. And we, especially him, needed a lot of freedom to explore all those things before we settled down.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:56 – 00:36:29
So we didn’t get married until 10 years after we met, and then we took another few years before we had our son. But learning about his human design allowed me to be such a better partner for him because up until I learned about it, there were certain aspects. So he’s a projector, right, which, like I said, projectors need a lot of alone time. And I remember so distinctly, even in college too, you know, we’d have these, like, free afternoons. And my immediate response was, great.
Alexandra Cole
00:36:29 – 00:36:50
Let’s go do something. And you could tell he did not want to. Sometimes he kind of appeased me, but most of the time, it’s like, I just I just kinda wanna be by myself in my room. And I could not understand, and I would take it personally. So I would assume, oh, he’s not into me or he’s not into me as much as I’m into him.
Alexandra Cole
00:36:50 – 00:37:25
Right? And when I discovered that he was a projector, it all made so much sense. And I could finally stop taking those things personally because he would just sit in his room and watch a movie. And in my head, I’m like, well, I could just watch the movie with you, but it wouldn’t have been the same. Like, he really needed to be in his own aura, his own energy in order to fully recharge from the just busyness of being in college and playing a sport and you know, the whole social scene and life, like, that was really important for him.
Alexandra Cole
00:37:25 – 00:38:27
And I wish I knew in college because it would have saved me a lot of anxiety. But especially now also, you know, becoming parents and understanding, for example, that for a projector, starting his day slowly is really really supportive and allows him to show up more fully as a dad and as a partner later on in the day. Whereas for me, as a generator, I kind of wake up and immediate this is not true for all generators, but for me, I kind of have this, like, you know, steady current of energy that I can use as a parent. And so I take the majority of the morning shifts because I know that then later on, if I need him around dinner time, my husband’s gonna be present and ready to go. But if I or on the mornings where he does have to do the, you know, 6:30, 7 AM wake up, by the end of the day, he’s shot, and he needs more of that solo time to recharge.
Alexandra Cole
00:38:27 – 00:39:12
So it’s just learning to understand that and then not comparing his energetic outputs, right, to mine because they’re incomparable, and one isn’t better than the other. It’s just different. So when he has a solo weekend, for example, my husband knows that he can only be on, quote unquote, as that parent for 2, 3 hours at a time comfortably before it starts to become really really difficult. So he will, in advance, make sure he’s got his parents that are gonna take a little window, that we’ve got a babysitter that might take the little window to set him up for success. Whereas I am much better able to just kind of grind it out for 48 hours.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:12 – 00:39:36
Right? And for me, the more important thing is making sure that throughout the day, I get to do things that excite me and bring me joy and that I get to take my son to, like, my favorite coffee shop or treat us to, you know, a delicious dinner or get an hour at my, like, favorite Pilates studio. Like, that’s much more important to me and is not at all significant to my husband in that case.
Victoria Volk
00:39:36 – 00:39:45
I love that. What’s interesting is that I learned that my husband and I, he’s like the male version of me. We’re both
Alexandra Cole
00:39:45 – 00:39:47
Is he also a manifestor?
Victoria Volk
00:39:47 – 00:39:51
4, 6 emotional manifestor. Exactly.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:49 – 00:39:50
Wow.
Victoria Volk
00:39:51 – 00:39:51
He and I both.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:52 – 00:39:53
What are the odds? Like, that
Victoria Volk
00:39:53 – 00:40:12
Like what are the Odds? I 20 years. 20 years. But just knowing the things that I know, like, I’ve been kinda digging into the gates of love, which really has I mean, we have a lot of these, what are they called?
Victoria Volk
00:40:13 – 00:40:14
The gates of compromise?
Alexandra Cole
00:40:14 – 00:40:16
Yeah. Compromise channels.
Victoria Volk
00:40:16 – 00:40:41
Yeah. We have, like, 5 of them.
Alexandra Cole
00:40:18 – 00:40:18
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:40:18 – 00:40:41
And so just learning about those has been really eye opening and, like, just how he, like, you know, he’s he’s such a giver of of love and affection and, like, being the provider. And and when he’s not feeling like he’s getting something , getting that in return, like, the equivalent of that, like, he can feel a little bit of
Alexandra Cole
00:40:41 – 00:40:43
Taken for granted. He got anger.
Victoria Volk
00:40:43 – 00:40:43
Exactly. Yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:40:43 – 00:40:43
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:40:43 – 00:40:53
So as a manifestor, anger is not our self theme. So when I feel myself getting angry about anything, it’s, oh, what what’s going on?
Alexandra Cole
00:40:54 – 00:41:22
And that’s another really good one to be aware of in partners and in kids too. Right? Because each of those energy types I just described has, you you know, what Victoria just mentioned, this not self theme, which is basically what comes up when you are compromising on your natural energetic pattern. And so for manifestors, that’s anger. So if you notice your child getting angry, your manifestor kid, it’s usually just a sign that they’re being limited in some way.
Alexandra Cole
00:41:22 – 00:42:05
They’re being forced to not listen to that, like, urge that they want to follow or pursue. And for a generator or manifesting generator, it’s gonna be frustration. So if you notice your child getting frustrated, right, or feeling more of that, like, stuck, that frustrated energy, that’s usually a sign that they’re being forced to do many thing too many things that don’t light them up, that aren’t exciting to them. And as a projector, the not-self is bitterness or a lot of the times it comes across as resentment. So if a projector is, you know, not being invited or recognized enough or they feel like they’re pushing themselves too hard beyond their energetic capacity.
Alexandra Cole
00:42:05 – 00:42:29
Right? They’re not given enough time to rest and recharge. They’ll start to get resentful about that. And then reflectors, the final one is disappointment. So if you notice that a reflector is, like, constantly disappointed in themselves or in the world and they just feel let down, that’s a sign that they probably, aren’t in the right environment.
Alexandra Cole
00:42:29 – 00:42:44
Right? That they’re not surrounded by the right people and that they are not able to or that they have absorbed far too much of everyone else’s energy and don’t really know what to do with it or can’t figure out how to let it go.
Victoria Volk
00:42:44 – 00:43:04
So how has this information helped you specifically? Because I’m sure you’ve had more grieving experiences since your mom’s passing, but how has the losses you’ve experienced since then? Been in how do I wanna word this? I think you know what I’m getting at. But, like
Alexandra Cole
00:43:04 – 00:43:04
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:43:05 – 00:43:05
How do you use
Alexandra Cole
00:43:05 – 00:43:08
How do I use human design to support that process?
Victoria Volk
00:43:08 – 00:43:17
Yes. And where would one look at their human design to see where like, where are some areas for people to look in at their human design when it comes to grief?
Alexandra Cole
00:43:17 – 00:44:00
So it’s helped me in so many ways, and 3 come to mind immediately. The first being the energy type piece, and this is mostly around how to support yourself best as you go through that grief. So, again, for me, I know I’m going to feel most like myself and most energized when I am creating enough space to do things that light me up and bring me joy. So even in the face of well, especially in the face of grief, that becomes that much more important, right, to carve out that time for myself. And for projectors, for example, rest becomes that much more important that you’re not pushing yourself.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:01 – 00:44:32
And for manifestors, like, honoring your energetic ups and downs and your desires in that moment and letting go of what other people think becomes that much more important when you’re going through grief. So that’s one. The other piece is that emotional center that we already talked about. So I know that for me, it’s really important for me to allow myself to feel my feelings and to ride that wave. And I can now almost enjoy that process in a weird way.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:32 – 00:44:47
Right? Because I know it’s gonna I know that wave is gonna crash at some moment. Usually, there’s this wave like pattern to emotions, which I think also very much mirrors grief, right, where it kind of, like, comes rolling in. It builds. It builds.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:47 – 00:45:05
It builds. Then there’s this crescendo moment where you’re feeling so much. And then, eventually, that wave crashes, and you kind of find yourself bobbing at the surface in more of kind of that cool, calm, collected space. And you’re still feeling, but the charge has disappeared. Like, it’s less overwhelming.
Alexandra Cole
00:45:06 – 00:45:30
And so understanding that pattern has helped me a lot because I can kind of gauge where I am on that wave, and I can know, okay, it’s gonna crash soon, and that’s the place where I really wanna sit and reflect for a little bit. And be like, okay. What is what is this feeling trying to tell me? Because I know for me that the feelings are always trying to communicate something. So that’s another piece.
Alexandra Cole
00:45:30 – 00:45:55
I allow myself to really sit with things more as opposed to feel like I need to act or do something to resolve it. I know that that wave pattern is gonna continue to exist. Whereas, if you are an open emotional or a non emotional, so that emotional center is what we call undefined and you know you’re more sensitive to other people. If you’re going through grief, you might actually wanna isolate a little bit more. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:45:55 – 00:46:36
You might actually wanna remove yourself from the other grieving people because you it will almost overshadow your ability to kind of sit with your own grief because you’re gonna be feeling everyone else’s and then feel pressure, right, to respond to that or do something about their grief. So that’s a really helpful insight. And then the last thing that I’d say is looking at profile. So there’s this element in human design called profile, which speaks more to your personality and really to the how, to, like, how you approach things in life. And there’s 12 different profiles, and each profile consists of two numbers.
Alexandra Cole
00:46:37 – 00:47:14
And each of the numbers in the profile represent, like, an archetype that lives within you. So when Victoria was just saying we’re both 4 6 manifestors, the 4 6 is her profile and her husband’s profile. Each of these numbers also can tell you a little bit about, like, how you might process grief most effectively. So really quickly, the number one is known as the investigator archetype. So these are people who will want to know as much as possible and get into the research and feel most comfortable when they have all the data points and all the information.
Alexandra Cole
00:47:15 – 00:47:40
Right? So, for example, when it comes to grieving, these might be the people if, let’s say, it has something to do with an illness. Their immediate thing is I’m gonna research everything that, like, possible about this particular illness and, like, what the statistics are saying or they might delve into, I want to understand like the science behind grief and, like, what the different stages are. Right? Like, that’s very much the, like, one line.
Alexandra Cole
00:47:40 – 00:48:46
The 2, number 2 line is the naturally gifted person. It’s the person who, kind of picks things up very easily, intuitively, and naturally, doesn’t really need to study anything, but just knows in their bones certain things to be true or how to do certain things, Twos benefit a lot from alone time and having the ability to kind of in a safe cocoon-like space do their thing. So in times of grief, a 2 might feel like they really they just wanna, like, close the door to their bedroom and cry or journal or whatever that might look like, but they might feel this need to wanna do it themselves and to really get, like, fully absorbed in their own process and whatever feels good to them at that moment in time to move through it. Threes are like the experimenters. Threes are the the people who learn best through trial and error and throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks.
Alexandra Cole
00:48:46 – 00:48:57
So if you’re a 3 and you’re grieving, you might try all the different things. You might try a certain form of therapy. You might try journaling. You might try painting. You might try meditation.
Alexandra Cole
00:48:58 – 00:49:22
Right? And you just keep kind of, like, whatever you hear about or whatever sparks your interest, I encourage you to experiment with it and see if it supports you and feel supportive. Because the only way you’re gonna figure out what is going to help you through this grieving process is by just trying a lot of different things. And you won’t know just from hearing it from a friend. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:49:22 – 00:49:39
And just because it worked for the friend doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for you. You’ve gotta try it for yourself. Then there’s the 4. Fours are the relationship oriented people who are very sensitive to the quality of the relationships in their life. They’re very gifted connectors.
Alexandra Cole
00:49:40 – 00:50:21
They’re also people who, you know, get equally as lit up by social interactions as they can get exhausted by them, but it’s this, like, love hate relationship. Right? As you as you probably know, Victoria. So for fours, though, the support system is really really key when it comes to grief, making sure that you feel like you have those individuals in your life that you can vent to that are gonna show up for you, and being very aware of, like, what are the resources that I need, human resources as well as otherwise, in order to feel most supportive supported during this time. 5 is the problem solver.
Alexandra Cole
00:50:22 – 00:50:46
5 are the people who just immediately go into, like, fix it mode. Fives are also very much like, they feel a lot of responsibility. I have a 5. So you can see how, right, as a kid, my immediate reaction was, like, I’m gonna go into problem solving. I’m going to be the person that everyone in my family can rely on, and so that means shutting down my own emotions.
Alexandra Cole
00:50:46 – 00:51:33
So fives oftentimes have a lot going on below the surface that no one can see because they feel like they have to uphold a certain level of kind of responsibility, and they really hate disappointing other people. And they don’t like feeling vulnerable even though the vulnerability is actually the key for them. So for fives, finding even the one person or the one setting in which you can truly be vulnerable and allow that hard outer shell to kind of, like, disappear for a moment in times of grief is essential. Because in most situations, you’re gonna wanna be that, like, problem solver, and you can’t always be that. You need to also take care of yourself and your own needs in that sense.
Alexandra Cole
00:51:34 – 00:52:12
And then the last number, the 6, is the role model, and sixes are people who are wise beyond their years. They’re kind of these, like, natural advisers, very fair, very objective, and very reflective too. So for sixes as you’re going through grief, a lot of it will be reflecting on and observing kind of what’s coming up for me, what might that mean in almost like a bird’s eye view type of way. Right? Like, very much kind of, feeling almost like a little bit removed as if you’re looking at yourself going through that grieving process.
Alexandra Cole
00:52:13 – 00:52:45
But sixes might also, again, feel pressure to, play that role model part and therefore also not get, like, pulled under by their grief. And so it’s important for sixes to kind of still lean into that other number that they have because you always have 2 numbers in order to help them actually do that work because they’re very quickly gonna wanna go into, okay, what have I learned from this grief, and how can I now use that to support other people through the same process?
Victoria Volk
00:52:45 – 00:52:50
This has been gold. Just absolute gold. I how are you on time?
Alexandra Cole
00:52:50 – 00:52:54
I’m good. I probably should start wrapping it up though soon.
Victoria Volk
00:52:55 – 00:53:27
Okay. Oh, because I wanted to talk more about your story a little bit more, but, I wanna ask though quickly. So knowing what you know now, like, what gives you the most hope for the future? And, also, what is it about human design that you feel, you can bring into or how what would you suggest for Grievers to that’s not even a good question either. I’m trying to I wanna ask, like, a 1,000,000 questions right now because I’m I’m pressure root center.
Alexandra Cole
00:53:28 – 00:53:30
Mhmm. Just let it let it sit. You’ll get there.
Victoria Volk
00:53:32 – 00:53:48
Okay. What would you like to share? What do you think? I’m gonna just I’m gonna put it in your hands because you know human design far beyond my my capabilities. So what do you think is most important for people to know that you haven’t shared already?
Victoria Volk
00:53:48 – 00:53:57
And also the most important lesson and things that you have gotten from human design that you’re taking forward and that you’re utilizing in your life.
Alexandra Cole
00:53:57 – 00:54:28
I think I’ll keep it as simple and succinct as possible and say that the whole system of human design is built on this premise of differentiation, science of differentiation. Like, each of us is designed intentionally to be unique and different in terms of the way our energy works. And that, by definition, means that everyone is designed to grieve differently. Right? Like, there is no one size fits all approach to grief.
Alexandra Cole
00:54:28 – 00:54:59
And so I really encourage you to, you know, find some type of solace in that too. Right? That, like, just because, you know, something worked for someone else in your life and it’s not working for you, it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. It just means that you haven’t found the most aligned way for you to process that grief. And a lot of it comes down to understanding yourself on this, like, whole another level and trusting yourself.
Alexandra Cole
00:54:59 – 00:55:44
And I think that, again, we live in a world that puts so much pressure on us to be a certain way, to operate in a certain way. There’s a very clear right and wrong way to do things. And as a result, we compromise on or shut down and ignore those inner voices that, as kids, are much louder and then as adults kind of fade away into the background. And I hope that the grieving process serves as a way for you to start to get to know those voices again, to start to hear them more clearly, to start to kind of shut out all the shoulds that you’re feeling pressure to live up to from the outside world and really tune into what do I need, what does my body want. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:55:45 – 00:56:26
How am I responding to whatever it is that you might be facing in that moment in time? Because if you can allow the grieving process to do that, you will come out on the other end so much stronger and more aligned and in tune with who you are really here to be. And if nothing else, right, that the grieving process is such a powerful way of just, like, shedding more layers and coming closer to, like, that authentic self. So accept and embrace this idea that we’re all here to do things differently and use this as an opportunity to kind of get to know what that unique recipe looks like for you.
Victoria Volk
00:56:27 – 00:56:29
I actually have a program. It’s called do grief differently.
Alexandra Cole
00:56:30 – 00:56:33
There you go. I didn’t even know that. See?
Victoria Volk
00:56:33 – 00:57:09
But it is a framework, and it is evidence-based. And so as I’m listening to you, I’m like, I’ve seen this work for so many different types of people, so many different personalities, of course, so many different energy types. Right? And so it is like, it is very much about digging into the emotional climate within you. And it’s individualized because it’s it’s a framework that you apply to your grief, not to your neighbor’s grief, your mother’s grief, your sister’s grief, your brother’s grief, whatever.
Victoria Volk
00:57:09 – 00:57:21
And I think that’s why it works because it’s individualized to you in your experience. And I think that’s why it works. But thank you so much. I absolutely loved this. I seriously have loved this.
Victoria Volk
00:57:21 – 00:57:55
I geek out on human design. I’m still in my own explore more exploration and experiment to, of course, and I think that will be a forever ongoing thing. I am a huge proponent of anything that helps us understand ourselves better because I think the most important thing that we can give ourselves is compassion and grace. Not like a grace as a past, but a grace of just self-grace for being able to honor yourself, who you are in the moment, and given yourself that compassion that maybe you didn’t receive growing up. Because of who you were.
Victoria Volk
00:57:55 – 00:58:11
I love Human Design for that reason. Clearly, it’s been a gift for you in your grief experience. And I really, I would love to have you back sometime again, because this was so good. This was really so good. So I really appreciate your time today.
Victoria Volk
00:58:11 – 00:58:16
And, yeah, just so so many so much thanks to you for sharing.
Alexandra Cole
00:58:16 – 00:58:18
Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk
00:58:18 – 00:58:32
I’m so impressed. Like, you just, like didn’t have to look up notes. Like, you knew it, like, the back of your hand. So I’m very impressed by that and impressed by you and everything that you shared today. Anything else you would like to share?
Alexandra Cole
00:58:32 – 00:58:50
No. I think that’s it. And just thank you for the work that you do too. I mean, I have there’s a special place in my heart for grief and finding frameworks and support to, you know, guide people through those moments in life. So thank you for the work you’re doing as well.
Victoria Volk
00:58:50 – 00:58:56
So how can people work with you? Because you have 2 websites. Right? You have 2 different websites.
Alexandra Cole
00:58:57 – 00:59:34
Yeah. I have 2 different websites. One of them is more just my personal website where you can book sessions, 1 on 1 sessions. Although I will say, because I’m about to have a baby, those sessions will pick up again in May or June, I would say. So that’s alexandracole.com. For all my other offerings and products, it’s thrivingbydesign.com, and that’s where you can find the wellness report or the well-being report that Victoria was talking about at the beginning, which takes your chart and translates it essentially into your optimal recipe for well-being.
Alexandra Cole
00:59:34 – 01:00:16
And we look at everything from rest and nourishment to mental and emotional health. So a lot of the things that we touched on today will come through in that report, but it’s very specific to well-being. It’s not, like, a broad overview of your chart, let’s say. I also, on that website, have something called Raised by Design, which is for parents who want to, at a very high level, understand their child’s design. It’s like a 20 page summary of just kind of the, like, main points that you need to understand with very tactical strategies for how to actually support your child in that way, in the most aligned way.
Victoria Volk
01:00:16 – 01:00:18
And that’s specific to your child’s chart.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:18 – 01:00:21
Correct? That’s specific to your child’s chart.
Victoria Volk
01:00:21 – 01:00:21
Gold, people.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:22 – 01:00:22
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
01:00:23 – 01:00:23
That’s gold.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:24 – 01:00:36
Yeah. So I mean, there’s a lot of other also free resources and different things on Thriving by Design, but those are 2 reports that I, you know, are worth calling out specifically.
Victoria Volk
01:00:36 – 01:00:37
How about the purpose playbook?
Alexandra Cole
01:00:38 – 01:01:22
The purpose playbook is my book that I wrote, you know, after that experience of just kind of leaving the corporate world and reflecting on, you know, what allowed me to do that with so much conviction and confidence. It doesn’t actually even talk about human design. It’s very much like a framework for helping people pinpoint, like, what their purpose and mission is in this life and how to go pursue it in a aligned way. So I wrote that book back in 2019, came out in 2020. So if you’re looking for more of the kind of step by step process to articulate and live out your purpose in life, that’s that’s a really helpful resource too.
Victoria Volk
01:01:22 – 01:01:27
I bet you could come up with a second book knowing what you know now.
Alexandra Cole
01:01:27 – 01:01:36
Maybe. I know. I know. It’s just such a big endeavor, and I’ve been you know, my biggest projects these past few years have been kids. So once I get past that, who knows?
Alexandra Cole
01:01:36 – 01:01:37
The next will be a book.
Victoria Volk
01:01:38 – 01:02:26
Quickly, the few things that from the ebook, I just wanna share from the well by design. For me, it was so surprising things were, exercise in the afternoon to cleanse my system, which I found I naturally tend to do that sometimes. I was very surprised to learn that I don’t need much food to, yeah, I don’t need as much food to feel nourished, which I was really surprising to me because I’ve just went through a coaching thing and, you know, a lot of it was like macros, and I had to eat so much food, so much food, and I had so much energy, but, you know, I could tell my something was waning at some I know it’s a point, you know, when it came to my digestion and stuff. So that was interesting. And not surprising is that I’m prone to overthinking, which but it’s so good too.
Victoria Volk
01:02:26 – 01:02:42
So I really highly recommend that people check that out. And I’ll put all of the information in the show notes, but I just wanted to quickly share that. Yes. The well by design report is excellent. I the raise by design, get your hands on it because, you know, your children are a product of your parenting.
Victoria Volk
01:02:42 – 01:02:42
Right?
Alexandra Cole
01:02:44 – 01:02:54
100%. Yeah. In a way. They’re they’re actually very like, they have their own makeup, but as a parent, you can either support or negate it. And that’s the key.
Alexandra Cole
01:02:54 – 01:03:04
Right? Like, we wanna actually, as parents, encourage them to become more of themselves as opposed to more of what the world expects them or wants them to be.
Victoria Volk
01:03:04 – 01:03:14
Yeah. No pressure.
Alexandra Cole
01:03:05 – 01:03:05
I know.
Victoria Volk
01:03:05 – 01:03:14
But I think when it comes to grief, right, this is why this information is so important and why I wanted to have you on. So thank you.
Victoria Volk
01:03:14 – 01:03:17
Thank you again. Thank you again for being here.
Alexandra Cole
01:03:17 – 01:03:19
Of course. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk
01:03:19 – 01:03:24
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Grief, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY :
How often have we heard or even played ‘the guilt and blame game’ in relationships? This emotional turmoil hinders healing and obscures the path to genuine connection.
In today’s episode, we dive deep into the complex themes of self-love, self-acceptance, and navigating loss. Healing isn’t just about moving past grief; it involves embracing responsibility for our emotions, navigating forgiveness, and making peace internally—sometimes without confronting another soul. As a grief counselor, I’ve witnessed how loss challenges faith and spirituality but also offers profound lessons in nurturing them.
Regret may whisper tales of what could have been, yet authentic care means addressing those echoes within us rather than seeking external resolutions. Grief is personal—it carves unique paths for each wanderer—and advice must be sifted like grains through fingers until only what serves remains.
Today reminds us that life is transient—”you are dust, and to dust you will return.” This sentiment urges us to contemplate our aspirations before time writes its final word on our chapter.
An oracle card left me contemplating as it spoke of new chapters filled with uncertainty—an inevitable companion in growth. Embrace this dance with change as your story unfolds into awakening.
Here’s to new beginnings built on foundations of love—for oneself first—that ripple outward.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Self-Love and Authentic Care on a Day of Duality
Today, we find ourselves at the crossroads of two significant observances – Valentine’s Day and Ash Wednesday. A day typically associated with romantic love coincides with one that marks introspection and spirituality. This unique convergence offers us an opportunity to dive deeper into the concept of self-love, which has been a buzzword in wellness circles but is often misunderstood.
Self-love transcends beyond surface-level indulgences such as bubble baths or nail treatments; it’s rooted in self-acceptance and compassion. In our fast-paced world, finding moments for quiet reflection can be challenging, yet it is through these moments that we cultivate self-awareness—a key ingredient for nurturing meaningful connections with others.
The Disconnect Within Ourselves
Our struggle to connect deeply with others usually mirrors our disconnection from ourselves. When faced with loss or heartbreak, it’s easy to fall into the trap of the guilt and blame game — pointing fingers either at ourselves or others for what went wrong. However, engaging in this cycle only hinders our healing process.
Healing Through Responsibility and Forgiveness
True healing begins when we take responsibility for our emotions instead of externalizing them onto someone else. It requires working through forgiveness — not just forgiving those who may have hurt us but also forgiving ourselves for any perceived failings or mistakes.
Addressing Regrets Without Confrontation
Reflecting on past relationships might stir up regrets or wishes that things had turned out differently. Authentic self-care means addressing these feelings internally without necessarily confronting the other person involved. As a grief counselor, I’ve seen firsthand how grief encompasses more than grappling with death—it also involves nurturing faith and spirituality during times when they are most tested.
Navigating Your Grief Journey
Grieving is profoundly personal; there isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to managing it. Not all advice will resonate with you because your journey is uniquely yours—honor that by being selective about who you include in your support circle.
Ash Wednesday’s Poignant Reminder
On Ash Wednesday, we’re reminded “you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” This humbling message prompts us to reflect on life’s impermanence and consider what legacy we wish to create before reaching life’s inevitable end.
Embrace Uncertainty as You Step Into New Beginnings.
As today symbolizes new beginnings—for some in terms of love; for others regarding spiritual awakening—we must embrace uncertainty accompanying change rather than resist it.
An Oracle Card Message For You
In closing this discussion on duality between celebration and contemplation comes an oracle card message: Embrace the uncertainty as you step into new versions of your lives—let each new chapter unfold naturally.
Unleash Your Heart
Remember that unleashing your heart opens pathways not just toward fulfilling relationships but also towards living fully alive—with courage, purposeful direction—and ultimately unleashes your life itself.
Here’s wishing everyone strength on their journeys towards authentic self-love this Valentine’s Day meets Ash Wednesday—an ideal time for beginning anew while honoring where you’ve come from.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:03 – 00:00:35
Hello, beautiful souls listening to today’s episode. Thank you so much for being here. And I really didn’t know what I was going to talk about today when I sat down to record. It is in fact Valentine’s Day and it is Ash Wednesday. And my newsletter for this week was about a less-than-happy Valentine’s Day, which last week’s episode, if you haven’t listened to it, that’s what it was about.
Victoria Volk
00:00:35 – 00:01:52
And instead of reinventing the wheel, the timing of my newsletter coming out, which is biweekly, was the same topic. And so there’s been a lot of discussion and I’ve seen a lot of information out there and content about self-love, but I took it a step further in last week’s episode, and it is really more than about bubble baths and getting your nails done and all of that, which are all great, or taking a nap. But although I’m a huge proponent of self-care and, you know, pampering yourself, taking a spa day, spa day at home, enjoying a cup of tea, sitting down with a friend, all these little things that we can do, these micro-moments that we can cultivate for ourselves to nurture our souls, to nurture our spirit, to bring some lightness to our day, to bring some lightness to our Heavy hearts, I’m all for that. That’s and that’s a lot of what the content has been lately.
Victoria Volk
00:01:52 – 00:02:33
I even shared some of that in my newsletter. But I think when we talk about self-care, self-love, it’s more about self-acceptance, meeting yourself where you’re at, having compassion for yourself. And how do you do that? It’s really difficult to do that though, when you’re a hamster on the wheel of your own life when you don’t even stop long enough to sit in stillness or in the quiet. Because in the stillness and in the quiet is when fear comes up.
Victoria Volk
00:02:35 – 00:03:39
Is when the anxieties come up and our heart starts racing when we think about the future and our fists might clench up or our teeth might clench up or we might feel tightness in our body somewhere when we think about the past. So self-love really is self-acceptance, self-awareness, self-compassion. It’s all of those things. And it’s in doing the things to build connection within the self that we can build deeper connections within our relationships with others. And I think so many of us are walking around with these walls up in this armor, keeping ourselves at a distance from deeper connection to other people because what we’ve really lost is a deeper connection within self.
Victoria Volk
00:03:41 – 00:04:35
But what happened is we don’t think about that first relationship with ourself when something bad happens to us or something negative just knocks us off our feet in our lives, and we have this terrible loss, a devastating loss, whether it be by death or just estrangement or just a disconnect of relationship for some reason, maybe even unknown. Maybe just a distance comes between, you know, like two ships in the night. Right? And so we can quickly go to that place of blame, of wanting to blame. We can also feel guilt.
Victoria Volk
00:04:35 – 00:05:11
Guilt and blame. It’s the guilt and blame game. That’s what we play with ourselves, the guilt and blame game. And either we feel guilty about something that we did or didn’t do and or we want to blame or find something or someone to blame for how we feel, not taking responsibility for ourselves for how we feel. And so that’s what I wanna riff about today, which I’ve already kind of been riffing on for 6 minutes now or so.
Victoria Volk
00:05:13 – 00:07:00
But I wanna talk about and I might get into, like, this disconnect in loss of faith, Faith within ourselves, like, we lose faith within ourselves, but we also lose faith, I think, in life itself of feeling supported of a higher power, and it’s Ash Wednesday, and it’s all about Love today. And so all of this connects and ties in and maybe I’ll wrap it with a really nice Beau at the end in some way, but so I’m gonna feel like I might be jumping around a bit and maybe I hope you can stick with me and, I hope I can connect the dots for you, but I have so many thoughts and I guess that’s where I’m feeling a little scrambled at this moment, but I’m just riffing, so let’s see where it takes us. So coming back to the concept of loss of relationships or you know, things happening again, whether it be by means of death or otherwise. But when something or when someone important in our lives leaves for some reason, we’re often left with many things we wish had been different, better, or more. Sometimes the situation is such that the last interaction we had with them was maybe a fight or an argument, which leaves us with an additional emotional burden beyond just the normal impact of the grief and the things that are never going to happen because the other person died or is no longer in your life.
Victoria Volk
00:07:01 – 00:07:55
So I just wanna address that word guilt. Guilt implies an intent to do harm. When someone is no longer in our life because they either passed away or just again, like the relationship ended for whatever reason, we often reflect on our last interactions with this with that person. And it’s in that reflection where we can think about these things that we said or we did and how we wish we would have said things differently or wish we would have done things differently or how we wish a situation would have ended better. And we often in these moments of emotional these emotionally charged moments is when we often say things we don’t mean or say things in a tone we didn’t mean or they’re taking them in a different way that was intended.
Victoria Volk
00:07:55 – 00:08:26
And so this is where then you have this complexity of a relationship where it’s one person feeling guilty, the other person feeling blame, and this is in the normal. Like our typical relationships often have scenarios that play out like this. And so when one person passes away or doesn’t is no longer in our life, those feelings don’t go away. They’re still there. Now, of course, if you’re the one that passed away.
Victoria Volk
00:08:26 – 00:09:11
Of course not. But the one that’s left behind, and whether that’s guilt or that’s blame, you still have those emotions within you that you’re holding on to that you hold on to unless you have an awareness of their existence and work through processing those feelings and emotions and thoughts so that you can change them, so that you can move past the pain of the experience. And of course, you’ll still feel sadness, but the pain will be lessened. And a part of that is recognizing the 1% responsibility that you have. And I say 1% because so often for people, especially in cases of abuse and things like that.
Victoria Volk
00:09:11 – 00:09:39
It’s really hard just to take responsibility. Like, what is my responsibility? I wasn’t the one doing this. I wasn’t the one harming the other, especially in the case of abuse is what I’m getting at there. But when we take 1 at least 1% responsibility for how we feel, because really, it’s only us who are responsible for our feelings. We can change how we move forward.
Victoria Volk
00:09:39 – 00:10:22
We have a choice in how we move forward. And that plays into forgiveness and apologies and significant emotional statements that we work through and I do grief differently in the grief work that I do with clients. It’s still work that I personally do myself because whether people are alive or dead, they’re still in our lives. There’s still an emotional connection that exists and keeps on going. Relationships have many components, good, bad, and sometimes ugly.
Victoria Volk
00:10:23 – 00:11:06
And when the last interaction we had wasn’t good, we often carry that last bad interaction forward and sometimes lose sight of all of the other elements of the relationship. But by understanding that guilt is an intent to do harm, we can remove Inappropriate language. That’s not even appropriate for how a person feels. And this is where I want you to think about in a relationship that you have now, whether the person is still living or has died, what do you wish about that relationship would be different, better, or more. What are your losses of hopes, dreams and expectations for that relationship?
Victoria Volk
00:11:07 – 00:11:36
Is there anything you need to apologize for? Is there anything that you need to forgive? And there’s is there anything else that you haven’t said to this person that you wish you would have, either on the positive spectrum or on the perceived negative spectrum? Switching gears to talk more about blame. When something happens in our lives, we, it is our almost a knee jerk reaction to, oh, who can I blame for this?
Victoria Volk
00:11:36 – 00:12:09
Who’s at fault? You know, it’s our perceived you know, we’re always looking to protect ourselves, right? And so if someone is doing something that we perceive as an attack or someone did something physically, you know, there’s someone to blame. There’s someone on the other end of that that’s inflicting that either physical or emotional pain. And so it is easy to just point the finger and blame another person, and it might be very justified.
Victoria Volk
00:12:09 – 00:12:34
You know, this emotional energy has to go somewhere, and we often channel it through anger that is fueled by blame. So whether it’s another person who’s living or the person who has passed away, especially if the person’s passed away, you are stuck in emotional jail because you are never going to get an apology from someone who’s passed away. This is why that is personal work. Apologies, forgiveness, significant emotional statements. This is internal personal work.
Victoria Volk
00:12:34 – 00:12:53
It is for you, and it’s not for anybody else. And you don’t even have to confront the other person. And this is work that I do with clients. This is work that I’ve personally went through myself and continue to work through. You do not have to confront people to address these emotions that you’re holding in, the guilt and the blame.
Victoria Volk
00:12:53 – 00:13:14
And for so long, for so many years, like many of you probably listening, I blamed God. My dad passed away when I was young, and my life completely flipped upside down and inside out. What is a child to do? You know, we’re always taught that, you know, God loves you. And I was in Bible school, and then you’re told, well, they went into heaven.
Victoria Volk
00:13:14 – 00:13:34
And when you’re told these ridiculous things like, God needed another angel, do not say that to people. Because if you really think about it, if I told somebody if I told a child especially, well, God needed another angel. Okay. Well, I’ll just blame God then because, you know, my dad should be here with me, not with God. He should be here with me.
Victoria Volk
00:13:34 – 00:14:01
And so I’m gonna blame God because God took my dad, and that’s exactly what happened. You know, through that messaging, we’ve all done it. As parents, we resort to what we know, and I don’t even know who specifically said it? But maybe it’s just this messaging. It’s subliminal messaging that I was receiving in culture or you know, because by the age of 3, we have learned 75% of how to respond to life’s challenges.
Victoria Volk
00:14:01 – 00:14:43
So if that doesn’t blow your mind, I don’t know what does. But by the age of 15, we’ve already learned everything that we’re going to resort to to respond to life. And that is why it’s so important to understand the importance of language and the importance of not saying stuff like that to a child who has lost a parent or a pet because that child grows up thinking God is the reason. God is to blame. And that not only is a harmful thing to hold on to as a child growing up that way but imagine what that does to a child’s faith growing up.
Victoria Volk
00:14:43 – 00:15:35
And when you grow up questioning faith or questioning God, you don’t have that in your life. And I see so many people turning away from faith, turning away from God. And this is I’m not gonna I’m not gonna stuff a bunch of spiritual or God or faith stuff down your throat today, that is not my intention here. I am just going to simply say that having faith in and trust that you are held, that you are cared for, that you are loved, no matter what you have done, no matter what you have not done, that is the truth. That you were created in the image and the likeness of God.
Victoria Volk
00:15:35 – 00:16:05
And if you think about all of just the creation of a human life itself, if you just google it, it is astonishing. It is a miracle of how we come to be. It is an absolute miracle. And so you are a miracle, and we are all created of this Miracle stardust. And we don’t recognize our own beauty and our own light.
Victoria Volk
00:16:06 – 00:16:53
And when the shit hits the fan in our lives, we so easily forget that, and then we look to blame. Because little by little, our beliefs are challenged, our thoughts change, our behavior starts to change, and not in a healthy way. And this is how grief chips away at us little by little, until we come back to understanding and knowing ourselves. Challenging those beliefs that we have been taught, such as God needed another angel or whatever stupid shit you were told as a child just because your parents didn’t know better, the adults in the world did not know better. Again, they resorted to what they knew.
Victoria Volk
00:16:55 – 00:17:06
But even adults say stupid shit to other adults. That is not helpful. Oh, they’re in a better place. No, they’re freaking not. They should be here with me.
Victoria Volk
00:17:06 – 00:17:19
No, they’re not in a better place. Because this should have never happened. They should have never gotten sick. They should have never gotten in that car accident. That other person shouldn’t have been driving drunk.
Victoria Volk
00:17:19 – 00:17:53
Whatever the case may be, whatever the scenario or situation may be, this is so what this is we look to blame. We want someone to blame because our pain is so deep and so all encompassing. We don’t know what to do with it and so we just me personally I just filled with anger and rage. Eating me from the inside out. Literally just eating away and chipping away at my sense of self where I became just so disconnected.
Victoria Volk
00:17:54 – 00:18:22
I can look back in my life, like, it’s like little flashes or glimpses here and there, but my memory is so choppy because it wasn’t I was so often in that state of fight or flight. And I was not coping well. Not internally. Perhaps on the outside, I was told recently that they this person said I had no idea you were you went through all that you went through. This is where people say, well, children are resilient.
Victoria Volk
00:18:23 – 00:18:31
Are they? I absolutely hate that saying. Children are resilient. I absolutely hate it. Children are perceived as resilient.
Victoria Volk
00:18:32 – 00:19:08
So if you know of a child in your life who has experienced a devastating loss. And I don’t care if it’s their pet. Just think about what I’ve just shared in the last few minutes here. Because a child can exhibit that they are okay when really they’re not. But the only way you’re gonna know is if you allow yourself to go into the uncomfortable places within yourself where you can feel comfortable sharing, because it will take you as the adult to share first for a child to open up and share.
Victoria Volk
00:19:09 – 00:19:29
There are children that will, will open up and easily express through creative arts, through play. And that’s great. If that’s a gateway for you to open up a conversation, that’s great. But know that to create a space of safety for a child, you have to go first.
Victoria Volk
00:19:29 – 00:20:04
Just like you wouldn’t just approach another adult in your life and just ask them 50,000,000 questions and expect that they’re just gonna open up and share. Children are the same. It’s like you need a sense of safety and trust and security first before you’re gonna spill your beans, you know? But I’m getting kind of off track here to what I wanted to say about the loss of faith. And that was the case for me for many years because I did blame God.
Victoria Volk
00:20:04 – 00:20:15
And grief challenges our faith on so many levels. It challenges our spirituality. What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? What’s my purpose?
Victoria Volk
00:20:15 – 00:20:43
What it what can’t I explain? Why did this happen? But spirituality and tuning into ourself, connecting with ourselves, it helps us to understand and accept, I think, that there are just things that we just will never know the answer to and to allow that to be okay. I still don’t know why my dad died at the age of 44. And people will say, well, it’s it is what it is.
Victoria Volk
00:20:43 – 00:21:13
That’s just the part of life. Death is just a part of life. And I’ll tell you, I know people who have said that. And what I can connect though to the people who have said that, is they have yet to have their life completely upended. And so that is what I will say is the gift in grief, is an immense deep well of compassion, not only for myself, but for others who have had their life completely upended.
Victoria Volk
00:21:13 – 00:21:34
And this is an aspect, I wanna share that it’s important for you to think about who you’re taking your advice from. Who are you holding within your circle to hold space for you. Not everybody can do that. Not everybody is emotionally available to do that because they’re in the middle of their own shit storm, and to let that be okay. Not to blame.
Victoria Volk
00:21:35 – 00:21:47
Not to hold resentment. Everything starts from the top up in your life. And at the very top is you. Shit trickles down, my friend. That’s how it is in the military.
Victoria Volk
00:21:47 – 00:22:09
That’s how it is in Corporations. If you have a leader that is not leading that trickles down and so the common denominator in your grief story is you. And so everything that happens in your life and the choices that you make, all originate with you. And so today and moving forward on this Ash Wednesday.
Victoria Volk
00:22:10 – 00:22:40
I wanna remind you that you are dust, and to dust, you will return. We all will. What do you wanna do in your life and accomplish in your life before that happens. How do you wanna nurture the love within you, The relationship that you have with yourself before that happens. I wanna close today with a card I pulled from one of my oracle decks, postcards from spirit is what the deck is called.
Victoria Volk
00:22:40 – 00:23:05
Card I shuffled, and this random card fell out. I don’t think it’s random? It’s apparently the message that you, my listener, somewhere out there, needs to hear. But it reads, dearest you, we are gathering our magic together to help you celebrate your new beginning. You’re stepping into a new version of your life, getting to tell a new story as you recreate it.
Victoria Volk
00:23:05 – 00:23:50
Doesn’t it feel like spring when the urge to expand wells up inside you from a primal place? The form of what you are growing has yet to take shape, and it is exciting to experience this new and fresh beginning. It’s normal to feel both push and pushback when entering any kind of new relationship. It’s okay to admit you don’t really know what to expect. What you can know is it’s time to dive in and allow that new version of life to take shape through you on behalf of your partner and life Spirit, you have made it to a new level of awakening and contributing, and we are so excited to see where this will take you next.
Victoria Volk
00:23:50 – 00:24:14
We’re so proud of you. Well, friends, that concludes my riff for today. I hope it wasn’t too jumbled and my thoughts weren’t too scrambled and that you were able to glean something from something I said today, and that it serves you in your highest good. And until next time, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parent Loss, Personal, Podcast, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In the quiet moments of reflection, we often find ourselves face-to-face with our deepest losses. Join me today as I embark on a unique episode of “Grieving Voices,” where I read an excerpt from my self-published book, “The Guided Heart: Moving Through Grief and Finding Spiritual Solace.” Let’s discover how my own experiences with loss from a young age have unknowingly mirrored the language of grief recovery even before I formally encountered it.
In this heartfelt session, I explore:
- The personal impact of losing my father at eight years old.
- How grief manifested in different aspects of my life.
- The therapeutic power of journaling during my high school years.
- Insights into emotional unavailability and its effects on family dynamics.
In this episode, I also draw connections between the content in my book written before learning about grief recovery methods and the concepts found within them. I share thoughts on letting go, acknowledging pain points, and coping mechanisms that can span decades.
Grief isn’t selective; it touches all corners of life, including relationships, careers, finances, and more. The way we cope can either mend or strain our emotional health. My story is not unique – it echoes many others’ struggles with life after loss.
Reflect on your path by following along in an exercise I propose—writing down your feelings to confront the emotional weight you carry. It’s not just cathartic; it’s a step toward understanding and clarity.
As we continue exploring various dimensions of grief throughout future episodes of “Grieving Voices,” remember that each person’s path toward healing is unique. Whether through reconnecting with faith or finding solace within oneself after experiencing profound losses—as I did—the goal remains constant: acknowledging our pain so that we may embrace life more fully and presently.
RESOURCES:
Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive 20% off
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NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Grief: Finding Solace in Your Journey of Loss
Grief is a universal experience, yet it’s one that each individual navigates differently. In today’s post, inspired by the personal reflections and insights from my book “The Guided Heart,” we will delve deeper into the complex tapestry of grief and explore how embracing our grief stories can lead to spiritual solace and growth.
Understanding Grief Through Personal Narratives
At the heart of every grief journey lies a story – often untold, deeply personal, and uniquely impactful. As I share my own narrative about losing my father at a tender age, I sheds light on an essential truth: our earliest encounters with loss shape our future selves. The absence of emotional support during such formative years can carve out coping mechanisms that endure throughout life.
Journaling or writing poetry as I did are more than outlets for expression; they’re lifelines for those adrift in the sea of sorrow. They help us anchor ourselves amidst turbulent emotions and offer glimpses into our subconscious minds where healing begins.
The Multifaceted Nature of Grief
Loss does not discriminate nor confine itself to physical death alone. It seeps through life’s crevices – be it through divorce, financial hardship, career upheaval or struggles like infertility. Each variant brings its unique brand of pain and requires its distinct mode of healing.
My book prompts readers to recognize these variations as part of their broader grief story. By acknowledging them rather than suppressing them, we pave the way for genuine well-being instead of temporary fixes.
Writing Out Our Feelings: A Therapeutic Exercise
One practical takeaway from “The Guided Heart” is the exercise to write down what you feel when faced with loss or change – much like journaling but with directed intent towards understanding your emotional landscape better. This simple act serves two purposes: catharsis and clarity — releasing pent-up emotions while also helping map out your internal world during times when everything seems chaotic externally.
Spiritual Solace Amidst Sorrow
Spirituality often intertwines with grieving processes because both deal with questions beyond mere existence — purpose, connection, transcendence. For some people like myself who reconnected profoundly with faith after another significant loss at 21 years old – spirituality offers not just comfort but guidance too; it becomes both compass and companion along their path toward recovery.
Every person’s spiritual journey varies greatly based on beliefs systems cultivated over time combined together experiences encountered along life paths chosen (or sometimes thrust upon us).
Support Systems Like Do Grief Differently Program
For those seeking structured assistance navigating their mourning period may find solace programs such “Do Grief Differently” which provide frameworks within which individuals work methodically through emotional challenges associated significant losses experienced personally thereby enabling participants emerge stronger ready face whatever comes next chapter lives waiting be written anew hope resilience newfound wisdom gained hard-won battles fought within hearts minds souls searching meaning midst despair found instead profound realization:
By confronting embracing grieving process head-on unflinchingly courageously wholeheartedly —we unlock potential live fuller present existences enriched by memories loved ones lost never forgotten always cherished revered honored lived up legacies left behind inspire current future generations alike continue quest understand intricate complexities human condition called Life filled equal parts joy sadness triumph tragedy love longing laughter tears silence screams whispers roars echoes reverberating across time space forevermore…
Remember take care of yourself during this difficult time listen to body mind spirit needs most importantly give permission to grieve own pace own way safe knowledge community others walking similar paths alongside offering support encouragement empathy compassion whenever needed most.
In conclusion, embrace the journey and allow a guide heart true north star guiding the night sky darkest hours dawn new day horizon promising fresh beginnings possibilities limitless imagination dare dream once again…
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:41
Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is that you are listening to this. Thank you for being here. I’m your host, Victoria V, and this is episode 180 of grieving voices. And I decided to do something different for an episode and read an excerpt from my book, The Guided Heart, Moving Through Grief and Finding Spiritual Solace, which I self-published in 2017., And I just picked up the book off of my shelf and flipped it open to its Part 2, chapter 1.
Victoria Volk
00:00:42 – 00:01:22
And, I started reading, and to be truth be told, I have not read my book since I’ve self-published it. So it’s been quite a few years. But in reading this chapter, I realized that there were a lot of things I share in it that actually is the language of grief recovery. And so before I even discovered grief recovery, this book was written, and it’s like I had this knowing about grief, I mean, I grew up with it. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:01:22 – 00:02:43
Like, I grew up with grief from a very young age, and just in reading about my experience of my different grief experiences, I just could pinpoint this language that we use in grief recovery, and I just find that interesting because for someone who felt like they were doing okay or that they felt like they didn’t need help, which was me very much so for many years. I still had this understanding of it, and yet so I think back now in hindsight, it’s like why couldn’t I figure why couldn’t I figure out that it wasn’t me that was messed up? Like, it wasn’t my fault that I felt messed up or that something was wrong with me. It was it was grief. And, yeah, and the grace that I sent to myself back then just reading this.
Victoria Volk
00:02:46 – 00:03:24
Anyway, you’ll get what I’m saying when I read this, but, I would also encourage you to read the grief recovery handbook, and I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. And then you’ll really understand what it is I’m talking about here in drawing the connection between what I will have learned 2 years after publishing this book. And yet, that language is still in this book. And so I knew grief and understood grief better than I thought I did. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make.
Victoria Volk
00:03:26 – 00:03:50
Anyway, I digress. Let me get on with this week’s episode and reading an excerpt from my book, which is not on Audible, but perhaps maybe I should just sit down and record reading my book, and so that it is. Anyway, let’s get started. And I’m mistaken. It’s actually part 1.
Victoria Volk
00:03:51 – 00:04:08
We all have a story. Chapter 1. What is your grief story? Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. It’s a quote by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Victoria Volk
00:04:10 – 00:04:39
She doesn’t understand anyway, I heard someone say, talking about me as if I wasn’t even there. March 31, 1987 is the anniversary of my father’s death. On July 30th that year, he would have turned 45 years old. He spent the last 2 years of his life, after having been given only 6 months to live, fighting a battle he knew he wouldn’t win. The doctors said there was nothing they could do.
Victoria Volk
00:04:39 – 00:05:16
The cancer had spread to surrounding tissues and organs. Colon cancer took my father away, and my mother became a widow at 43 years old. Being left to raise 2 children still living at home, myself, age 8, and my brother, 14 at the time. I’m not sure any woman in her position or any woman who has been in her position would know what to do, how to do it, or how to navigate raising grieving children while grieving themselves. It was impossible for me to understand then the profound effect my father’s death would have on me.
Victoria Volk
00:05:16 – 00:05:39
By the time I was 10 years old, I would begin to grasp exactly that. 2 years after the death of my father, my mother remarried. The new man in her life was a long-haul trucker and was home typically every other weekend. Theirs was a tumultuous relationship. There are many disputes during their 9-year marriage, and it ultimately ended in divorce.
Victoria Volk
00:05:40 – 00:06:14
I learned during that time and from the time of my father’s death that my mother was emotionally incapable of being there for both my brother and myself. I grew up quickly, as did my brother. I wasn’t wasn’t a child who lashed out or got into mischief. Rather, I was the wallflower, the introvert, the shy girl in the corner who spoke up when spoken to. And honestly, to this day, I’m not quite sure how I managed my grief as a young girl, particularly in elementary school, other than stuffing it all down.
Victoria Volk
00:06:16 – 00:06:41
My mother did not know what to do for my brother or myself. There was no grief counseling. And for reasons still unclear to this day, my father’s family ceased to exist in my life following the funeral. So from a young age, my family was my immediate family, as well as some family on my mother’s side, quite small in comparison to what I would later marry into in adulthood. Learning to cope.
Victoria Volk
00:06:42 – 00:07:12
It wasn’t until journaling was a requirement for English class in high school that I started to express my feelings. I wrote poetry, started journaling for myself in addition to journaling for class. And for the first time, I began to feel some of what I stuffed down for so many years. During this period in my life, there were several occasions where I lashed out at my mother, often out of frustration that had built up within me over the years. I don’t know if my mother knew how to be there for me.
Victoria Volk
00:07:12 – 00:07:38
She couldn’t emotionally care for herself. I detached myself as much as I could. Being a teenager is hard enough, but being a female teenager of an emotionally trapped mother is even harder. Therefore, we never developed a mother daughter bond that I would have loved to have shared with her. I think she realized the daughter who had taken emotional care of her all those years was eventually leaving too.
Victoria Volk
00:07:39 – 00:08:01
My childhood is where my grief story began. However, it’s certainly not where it ended. There would be several more lessons to follow in my life. I believe there are different faces grief presents during our lives, and often, it presents itself in ways you least expect. The faces of grief.
Victoria Volk
00:08:03 – 00:08:41
On some level, I still grieve for the normal childhood I could have had had my father’s untimely death not happened, but in reality, I’ll never know what that other life would have been. So it’s not the not knowing, not getting the chance that I would come to deal with years later as well. I grieve for all the moments in my life my dad was never a part of, protecting me as fathers do, walking me down the aisle, seeing and knowing his grandchildren, and, likewise, my children knowing their grandfather. These are the things I still grieve for grief, in my opinion, never leaves.
Victoria Volk
00:08:41 – 00:09:16
It is not something to get over. It is something to sit with, work through, and live with, just in a different way as the years go on. At some point in life, all of us experience grief, whether it be losing someone we love, a divorce, a devastating financial loss, loss of career, even infertility, all cause some form of emotional pain. How we cope with it can mean months or even years, maybe even decades of loss of well-being. That to me is tragic.
Victoria Volk
00:09:17 – 00:09:44
When we remain emotionally paralyzed, we do ourselves, those still in our lives, our communities, in our world, a disservice. Through my life, I can pinpoint at least 9 pain points where I experienced a feeling of loss. Many have to do with the death due to illness. However, not all. I have grieved lost opportunity, not knowing my father’s family or having a relationship with them.
Victoria Volk
00:09:45 – 00:10:15
Lost time with my kids because in my previous business, I was driven to prove something as well as a loss of friendships and relationships. No matter how grief appears in your life, it’s sure to make you feel as though you’re no longer in control. You may become aware of your own mortality, which can cause self-reflection. When we self-reflect, we often realize our shortcomings or focus on the negative. It is being faced with uncomfortable feelings that arise from grief that shake us.
Victoria Volk
00:10:16 – 00:10:32
Often, we just don’t know what to do with those feelings. At least I know my mother didn’t. As a result, neither did I. And so this dynamic played out for decades. Your grief story.
Victoria Volk
00:10:34 – 00:11:08
What is your grief story? If you haven’t experience the loss of a loved one, which I presume is why you picked up this book and decided to turn its pages, but rather experience the loss of love, career, or even health, these are still losses that cause some level of grief. Have you considered all that has been handed your way in life that has caused you emotional pain in some way? What are those moments that have stuck with you, which have given you a lingering feeling of loss. Maybe it wasn’t what was, but what could have been?
Victoria Volk
00:11:10 – 00:12:17
I don’t think there is a person out there who hasn’t experienced any form of grief. As a parent myself, I cannot even fathom the helplessness and hopelessness my dad must have felt and the thoughts that ran through his mind when he received his diagnosis. To know that you won’t be around to watch your children grow, that you will never see your grandchildren or witness your kids get married, all of the hopes and dreams of living a life, a full life with your spouse are shattered in one sentence spoken by a doctor sitting across from you in a sterile and personal office. It’s easy to think of my grief, but it deepens my sadness when I acknowledge what my father must have experienced, sometimes just trying to place ourselves in the shoes of another changes our perspective. In my case, I am humbled when I think of the strength my father showed out showed all of us, the fight within him to hang on for just one more day, month and ultimately, 2 more years.
Victoria Volk
00:12:18 – 00:13:09
My grief consumed me for many years. I will touch on certain aspects of what I mean as the chapters progress. For now, the first three chapters will focus on grief itself from a spiritual perspective, the ways it can present itself in our lives and a preface of getting it resolved., Before we move forward talking about a spiritual journey with grief in the excerpt of my book, I just want to share, The sponsor of this week’s episode, which is Magic Mind. And one of the ingredients in Magic Mind is cordyceps mushrooms, which is an adaptogen that reduces inflammation, strengthens your immune system, and supports higher energy levels and physical endurance by ramping up the production of ATP in your mitochondria.
Victoria Volk
00:13:10 – 00:13:51
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Victoria Volk
00:13:52 – 00:14:22
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Victoria Volk
00:14:22 – 00:15:06
And, again, I’ve been using this for several months now, and it really does help me get stuff done because I feel a sense of calm even if I feel overwhelmed by everything that I need to get accomplished in a day. This stuff helps me just I don’t know. It’s these ingredients just help me calm my nervous system and get me into a state of focus. And I think as grievers and, you know, life throws challenges our way and, you know, curve balls and things, like anything that can help support us, not only to get stuff done, but also our immune system. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:15:06 – 00:15:24
So that we can feel good too and maintain our health and wellness. And so check it out. Grieving voices is the coupon code. Magicmind.com slash grieving voices is the website and I will put a link to that in the show notes. Alright.
Victoria Volk
00:15:24 – 00:15:47
Let’s get back to the excerpt from my book. A spiritual journey with grief. I think it is important I make it abundantly clear that I’m coming from a spiritual place in my heart. I do not wish to stuff my beliefs down your throat as much as I don’t want judgment past for feeling the way I do. All of us have a unique spiritual path we follow.
Victoria Volk
00:15:48 – 00:16:08
Mine has certainly been full of twists and turns before my father’s passing, we were a typical Lutheran family, attending church every Sunday as well as Sunday school. After my dad’s death, however, all of that changed. We stopped going to church altogether. I did attend confirmation classes and was confirmed Lutheran.
Victoria Volk
00:16:08 – 00:16:31
However, it would either have to be a funeral or a wedding for me to set foot in a church of any kind until I was 23 when my husband and I began a relationship. I was bitter for many years. Granted, I had a lot of years to be bitter. Fortunately, life worked out for me the way it did as I prayed, received. And, really, it’s as simple as that.
Victoria Volk
00:16:32 – 00:16:56
After many years of not having the ability to pray from the heart, life had finally handed me more grief than I could bear. Feeling tapped out emotionally and overwhelmed, I prayed because I simply did not know what else to do. The rest is history, so to speak., Everything changed moving forward. Before my husband came into my life as more than a friend, I was on a self-destructive path.
Victoria Volk
00:16:57 – 00:17:21
I was becoming an expert at goodbyes, and I led a very narcissistic lifestyle. I don’t know what my husband saw in me, honestly. At that point, we had known each other for 7 years since we met in high school, but he was a far better human being than I was, bar none. It was one more experience with grief when I was 21. That was, in simple terms, the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Victoria Volk
00:17:22 – 00:17:54
A 5 year relationship was over, as was the life I thought we were going to have. Later, this loss would prove to be a blessing in disguise, which, as my life illustrates, can be the case at times., Surely, when it comes to relationship, you may relate as well. Sometimes we just don’t understand what it is that is best for us. Our minds tell us one thing, while our hearts and intuition tell us another, and we tend to choose the path of least resistance and pain.
Victoria Volk
00:17:54 – 00:18:19
It’s also difficult to discern the best decision when you are caught up in emotion. We tend to check rationality at the door when we have a grandiose view of ourselves, the world, and those we perch up on pedestals. My self-worth was nonexistent. Thankfully, God showed me a better way. More on my spiritual journey with grief in detail in chapter 3.
Victoria Volk
00:18:19 – 00:18:45
In the meantime, know that for me, a higher power seemed like a very out of reach concept for me. Acknowledgment of all that had gone wrong and all that had gone right. This was the first baby step on my journey to resolving my grief. Steps towards resolving grief. As I’ve previously mentioned, grief has many faces.
Victoria Volk
00:18:46 – 00:19:16
I touched on a few ways. I’ve experienced different forms of grief different forms of it myself. For instance, losing my photography business after 6 Sears was one of the most difficult decisions I had I have made. I know how much of myself I poured into creating and maintaining my business all those years. The time, money, sweat equity, not to mention the sleep deprivation while raising 3 young children ages 4 and under at the time, it certainly was a labor of love.
Victoria Volk
00:19:17 – 00:19:45
I grieved for months leading up to my decision as I knew it was what needed to be done at that stage in my life. I continued to wallow in my sadness until I finally decided to make it official with the selling of most of my gear over a year later. I found the act of officially letting go the hardest part. Isn’t that what grief ultimately causes us to do? Let go of what was and what will never be again.
Victoria Volk
00:19:47 – 00:20:11
Isn’t that too what grief itself is? The emotional reaction to loss or a change of any kind. We fight to hold on, and we fight to let go. That is the dilemma of grief, isn’t it? What I would like you to do is think of a moment in your life that caused you to have an emotional reaction to loss or a change of any kind.
Victoria Volk
00:20:12 – 00:20:47
Close this book and reflect on the feelings that arise when your mind takes you back to a time such as this in your life. Go ahead and open these pages again when ready. Now, if you want to feel more strongly the impact that loss or change had on you, grab a notebook, a writing utensil, and head to a quiet space, or do this exercise as soon as it is convenient. Set a timer for 30 minutes and just write. If you’re stumped on where to begin, finish this sentence.
Victoria Volk
00:20:49 – 00:21:42
The loss of blank made me feel as though blank. One thing to consider before doing this is to understand my intention, which is having you write out, possibly for the first time, your feelings surrounding the event that has shaken you to your core. When we release our feelings on paper, and I speak from personal experience, they tend to have less power over us, especially if we’re in a place of not knowing who we can truly talk to. The act of writing our fears, worries, and emotional pain forces us to sit with those feelings and can be very therapeutic. I wholeheartedly believe that writing for our personal well-being is the cheapest therapy one can find, but I know few, even in my own life, who practice this.
Victoria Volk
00:21:45 – 00:21:56
How did that feel? Pretty raw, I imagine. It’s painful to reflect in our pains. I get that. Truly, this is an exercise in acknowledgment.
Victoria Volk
00:21:57 – 00:22:41
Taking inventory of the emotional baggage weighing us down day in and day out gives us a clearer picture of where we are emotionally right now. This inevitably aids you in figuring out where you would rather be. And that my friends concludes the excerpt from my book, and if you would like to read more or learn more, you can head to my website, the unleashedheart.com., There is a link to it in the show notes, and I’ll also link to the book on Amazon there as well. And if you find as you go through that little exercise towards the end of this episode that you’re not okay, which is okay, by the way.
Victoria Volk
00:22:42 – 00:23:22
But if you’re not okay, and you know you want to be for the long term, there is support, and I hope that if this is your first time listening to my podcast, that maybe you’re learning about what I can offer for the first time and so there is a service that I offer. There’s a program. It’s called Do Grief Differently. We walk through 2 emotionally difficult challenging relationships of your life, and it’s a 12-week program. And I tell you what, you will learn more about yourself and about grief because it is as very much an educational program as it is a therapeutic one.
Victoria Volk
00:23:22 – 00:24:02
Even though it’s not therapy, it’s very therapeutic. But I’m there with you, guiding you and facilitating the deep work that so many people talk about, like, you just have to do the work. This is the work. And just it’s my job to create a safe space for you to release and to let go and to move forward with a different perspective, with new knowledge, new tools that you carry with you for the rest of your life. And so if that resonates with you, I encourage you to check out my website.
Victoria Volk
00:24:02 – 00:24:36
Again, the link will be in the show notes, and I’ll also link to Do Grief Differently in the show notes as well. So thank you so much for your time and listening today. I hope this, resonated with something in your heart and that little exercise helped bring to light, something that’s lingering within you. That’s just really wanting to come out, and know that there is support. You’re not alone, and there is hope.
Victoria Volk
00:24:37 – 00:24:43
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Divorce, Educational, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parenting, Podcast, solo episode |
Part II | Supporting Children Through Divorce and The Holidays
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
This episode is a follow-up to the last one to bring awareness to Children’s Grief Awareness Day on November 16th, 2023.
In this episode, I dive into supporting children through divorce and their challenges during the holidays. We must recognize that children experience various forms of grief and that parents play a crucial role in helping them cope with loss. Parents who receive early education on loss are better prepared to support their children effectively.
The impact of divorce on children is explored, highlighting the multiple losses they experience and the difficulties they face in understanding love and commitment. It can’t be stated enough that parents face many challenges in being present and acknowledging their children’s feelings during a challenging time, such as navigating all of the changes that occur as a result of a divorce (or separation), particularly when the parents are grieving themselves.
This episode implores all adults to empathize with children struggling, particularly during holidays and challenging family situations. As a society, we must break the cycle of inadequate support by providing better guidance to the next generation.
I encourage all listeners to engage with the episode and provide feedback to help shape future discussions on supporting children through divorce and the holidays. We adults must raise awareness about children’s grief, advocate for improved support systems, and empower all parents to navigate challenging situations with sensitivity and understanding. Future generations depend on what we adults choose to do or not do in response to children’s grief.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk: Hello friend. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. And it is a follow-up episode to the one before last week, Children’s Grief Awareness. And I said in that episode that I would bring in part two where I’d be talking more about supporting children through divorce and through the holidays as it relates to grief and divorce in general.
Victoria Volk: And I wanna share that, the first episode, Children’s Grief Awareness part one, has not been a very popular episode, and I just want to share how sad that kind of makes me not kind of, it does make me sad. And I suppose, I’m not sure exactly who you are listening to this. Do you not have children? Do most people who listen to this podcast not have children? Are you older? And maybe your children are older? And don’t have young children anymore, that could be. I would love to know why that episode isn’t resonating or if it did, please share that too.
Victoria Volk: And I would just love to know like who’s really on the other side listening to my voice. Are you listening in the car? Are you listening while you wash dishes? Are you listening on your commute? Or when you’re walking, I would love to know. So please share your feedback on the podcast directly please email me. Consider this like you supporting me in research. Because I’m really am curious. Please email me at [email protected] or find me on social media, Instagram is usually where I like to is my go to @theunleashedheart, and on Facebook, you can message me, Victoria The Unleashed Heart.
Victoria Volk: Anyway, I’m sure you can find me. Links are in the show notes too. If you are interested in helping me do that research. I would love to know who you are listening because I really am curious why that episode isn’t so popular, but regardless because I’m so passionate about children’s grief and the child grievers out there because I was one and I grew up as one. I’m still going to record a part two even though that last episode may not have been as popular because I feel like it is such an important topic because even if your children are older, they’re teenagers this still applies to you if your children are adults, who may be are starting their own families. Please share this with them too. I guarantee you that you probably know or have a child in your life, and this is just great information to have in your back pocket or to share with someone you know.
Victoria Volk: So, piggybacking on what I shared last week. There are some points I want to drill home. Point one is that children learn how to deal with loss at a very early age. That’s something I didn’t talk about in the last episode, but the vast majority of parents don’t realize that children, by the age of three, have learned or developed seventy-five percent of the skills that they will use for the rest of their lives to deal with issues that face them. Most parents rarely know or think about this when they are dealing with the daily issues related to their children. I’ve been there so many times, I can’t even tell you. Parents are very much in the moment when they’re talking to their children and likely they don’t even take into consideration how their children store things in their personal belief system.
Victoria Volk: While the vast majority of the information that parents pass on is of value. Like, we all, we are the teachers. Right? Mixed in with all of that good information can be also misinformation on how to deal with loss. And I’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but when your back is up against the wall and you have a grief experience, you’re gonna resort to what you know. And even when your children are faced with a grieving experience, you as a parent are gonna resort to what you know and likely what you were taught as a child is what you will pass on to your child. Unconsciously or consciously, some things, we don’t even really think about it. We just respond. Right? We just react. And that’s what we tend to do is respond in a knee-jerk reaction.
Victoria Volk: Point two I wanna make is that grief is more than an emotional response to death. I’ve talked about this so many times, but again, it bears repeating when it comes to childhood grief too. Because it’s not just about death, and children don’t need to be dealing with a death to experience grief. Comes in a lot of forms. Many losses that impact a child may seem insignificant to you as the adult for like example, let’s say, their favorite toy, and they can’t find it. They lost it. Where another child broke it. It seems insignificant to use the adult or the parent. But to us, it’s like, I can just buy go buy another one. I mean, there’s a million in one soccer balls or whatever it is. But to the young child that lost that toy or that whatever it is, it can be overwhelming. Especially if maybe it was a gift or something like that. Likewise, as adults, we become accustomed to friends saying things to us that we might find upsetting. And we might take offense. And in the moment, but we often are able to look at that comment if we take a step back, look at it from a broader perspective, and based on our relationship, not let that statement have a long-lasting emotional impact on us.
Victoria Volk: However, adolescents and teens do not have an adult’s perspective. And can find one negative comment or a breach of confidentiality emotionally devastating. In both situations, children are dealing with a very real grief grieving experience. And without realizing it, the way parents respond to these early grieving experience can establish a pattern for how the child learns to deal with loss for the rest of their lives. Even though as parents, we don’t see these early issues as being related to grief. They have nonetheless set a reactive response to loss in the child’s belief system. And it’s not like we’re trying to pass on bad information to our children. It’s just something that happens. A child is the most complex thing we ever bring home and they do not have detailed cautionary information stamped on the bottom of them. Right? They don’t come with a manual.
Victoria Volk: Point three, early education on loss for parents helps prepare children. The children in their life Grief Education is prevention. This is prevention. Most parents never think about helping their children deal with personal emotional loss until there is a crisis of some kind. It may be the death of a family member, a friend, or a pet that forces them to act. And it might be a divorce or some other major life event. Rarely do parents realize that they have already inadvertently given children in ineffective tools to deal with loss, even with previous minor issues their children may have experienced. And when parents face a crisis, they equally find themselves lost, like, as anyone would. Right? Like grief devastating loss just flips your entire world upside down. So your first thought might be to send your child to a professional for assistance. But the problem with that is that the children may see the professionals as advice as being in conflict with what they have already learned. A complicating factor, no matter the value of what this professional tries to teach them, can be conflicting information if the parents are not on the same page as that professional. And so mixed information or interactions with the child can just all it does is create more confusion. Taking all of that into account alone, should have you running to the bookstore or going on to Amazon and ordering the book when children grieve just based on what I just said. Or finding a support group program, like someone like me who facilitates the Helping Children with Loss program. Rather than waiting to for you to recognize that your child is struggling, you can help though with an overwhelming loss in advance, why wait for there to be a devastating loss or an issue to surface before we decide to help our children. Doesn’t it make more sense to teach parents the things they need to know to help their child feel safe to express their sadness during those first three years of life? And again, this is when these children aren’t just starting to develop the belief system that they will use for the rest of their lives. That is why Helping Children with Loss, When Children Grieve The Handbook is prevention. This information is prevention.
Victoria Volk: Now that I’ve gotten these three points out, I wanna start talking about divorce in the holidays as it relates to children in their grief experience. And it might surprise you that we actually divide divorce into two different categories, long-term or sudden. And the difference with divorce is that there is often one partner who has been struggling for a long time. While the other partner has been unaware, that things are not right. And so when the later gets served with divorce papers, it can have the impact of a sudden death, and some children are very aware of a problem in their household. I would say most are aware because children are sponges. They take in information in all kinds of ways and their eyes and ears are always listening and hearing and seeing and watching. So they have often seen and been subjected to arguments between their parents over an extended period of time. And for those children, the announcement of a divorce will fall under the heading of a long-term condition. And on the other hand, some parents manage to conceal from their children, their personal difficulties with each other. And when children who were not aware of any major problems are informed of an impending divorce, their reaction is also as if a sudden death has happened. The impact can be overwhelming to a child. And there’s a high probability that a child may begin to participate in a variety of short-term energy-relieving behaviors in response to the sudden news of their parents’ divorce. It could be said that a divorce is a family matter. And even though there is truth in that comment, the bottom line is that the couple is getting the divorce and the children are in the line of fire. The collateral damage to the children can be monumental.
Victoria Volk: The children caught in a divorce are experiencing multiple losses. What loss or losses are they experiencing? Well, look at the conflicting feelings caused by a change or an end in a familiar pattern of behavior. So some examples of losses that children may experience while their parents are going through divorce is a loss of patient that this family would be together. The loss of trust, loss of familiarity and routines, loss of safety, loss of childhood, loss of residence, and or the change to dual residences. Any one of these losses is enough to break a child’s heart. Not to mention, feel overwhelming.
Victoria Volk: So let’s look at each of these in a little bit more detail. Looking at the loss of expectation that the family would be together, children are taught about love and honor and trust and loyalty by their parents. They learn how to be loving and considerate how to resolve conflicts and how to get along with others. And from literature and films and religious institutions, children also learn that the vows exchanged in the marriage ceremony pledge a commitment to those virtues. And whether or not you’ve experienced this, think about how can fusing and disturbing it must be to children when their parents cannot maintain that pledge to each other. Also, take loss of trust. Imagine the conflicting feelings children must experience as a divorce scenario unfolds, or explodes before their eyes. What reference point do they have to deal with those feelings? It is very difficult teach your children about love and simultaneously teach them about divorce. Given that implicit promise that the family will always be together, the divorce itself represents a major breach of trust.
Victoria Volk: Moving on to loss of familiarity and routines, this is difficult all by itself, and it’s often greatly intensified by the fact that children may be undergoing other major transitions as they move from childhood to adulthood. We know all too well that the stresses and strains of those transitions can have powerful consequences. And those transitions can be happening in every age bracket.
Victoria Volk: Next, loss of safety. Familiarity in routines build safety in a sense of well-being. The patterns established within a family are usually dismantled by divorce. Children flailing around and the emotional aftermath of a divorce often do not feel very safe. Safety and familiarity go hand in hand, so it is a good idea to limit the amount of additional changes.
Victoria Volk: Loss of childhood. The instinct for survival can take many forms. For the most part, survival actions are beneficial. Sometimes they backfire. The scenario in which children take care of a parent is one example of such a backfire. It is understandable that children who would instinctively try to protect the very person or people who are supposed to protect them. It’s the child’s way of trying to guarantee their own survival. But this impulse to care take puts them in conflict with their own nature. Divorce tends to turn children into amateur psychologists. It spurs them to analyze and figure things out. It forces them to grow up before their time and to take on attitudes and actions that are not appropriate to their time of life.
Victoria Volk: And I can say this specifically for myself that that holds a lot of truth just for my own experience of my dad passing when I was eight years old, my parents didn’t divorce. He died, but like I said earlier, divorce can be this long-term experience where it can be this like a sudden death. And so that’s where there’s similarities that can be expressed in divorce, as well as a death of a parent.
Victoria Volk: And talking about loss of residence or change to dual residences, everything that I’ve talked about has been magnified when the move is the result of a divorce. The moves or changes caused by the divorce carrying emotional weight which is added to the fact that moving in and of itself changes everything that is familiar and routine for a child. Think about it. If you change your job, you’re going to a new you might move across to a different state, you’re going to have new coworkers, new neighbors, new friends. You’re leaving old friends and colleagues behind. The same goes for children. But it’s on a scale that taking all these other things into consideration and what I’ve already shared you can see why this would have probably long-term effects on the well-being of a child.
Victoria Volk: And here’s what I’ll say to all of this. When as parents, we work on our own grief and work to resolve what is emotionally complete for ourselves and the losses that we’ve experienced in our life, whether it’s loss of trust or loss of safety or loss of our spouse or parent. We learn how to simply be present with a child in our life. Regardless of their age. You can simply be and not have to do anything. You don’t have to fix your child. You don’t have to give advice. You don’t have to jump in or change a subject. You can just listen and acknowledge. And this is what builds trust with children. And I will go on to say to starting first, going first, speaking to how you had expectations for your life with your significant other that didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean that that child has loved any less. It doesn’t mean that you care about that, the other parent, any less. You might, but to not use that time that you have with your child to bad mouth or talk about the other parent, but instead use the time that you have with your child to. Let them share. Let them express. Let them give voice to what they’re feeling, to what they’re thinking. That is what builds trust with children.
Victoria Volk: And this is where grief recovery is the most helpful because you can simply learn how to connect with your child at an emotional level. And not take away the feelings of the child. That’s not the goal. It’s not the goal to fix just to be and listen. And so as we’re navigating the holidays coming up and the changes of homes or sharing the holiday with a significant other or your now ex-spouse, or ex-significant other. Think about that. Think about what that child put yourself in the shoes of the child. What will they be experiencing? What would how are they feeling about especially if this is the first holiday the first Thanksgiving or the first Christmas where the child is feeling torn between two homes. Feeling torn from their mother, being feeling torn from their father, or whatever the situation is. It could even be a grandparent and a parent. Right? I mean, there are so many different scenarios to what a family looks like these days that I just my point is though is to think about the child put yourself attempt to put yourself in that child’s shoes. And your child may say, well, you might ask, well, how are you doing? I’m fine. Children might appear to be fine. They might appear unscathed. But I guarantee you all of the change and disruption to their life, especially if it was I would say regardless if it was like this long-term thing that they saw issues, they knew that there were issues versus feeling like it was a sudden death. Either way, there is gonna be changes that the entire family will have to navigate and adapt to.
Victoria Volk: And I think if the child is brought into the fold of that experience and not shut out or, I mean, if you might think that you’re protecting them, but if protecting them is not letting them talk about their feelings or not letting them share or not having them have a voice that is not helping them. And so I just wanted to encourage you if you find yourself in this situation or someone who is or if it was a death, let’s say it was a death of a parent, all of these things can still apply that I just talked about. There’s still going to be a lot of change. There’s still going to be a lot of uncertainty and by keeping those points in mind that I started out this episode with, you can be a soft space. And a place for a child to turn to not to be fixed, but to be heard.
Victoria Volk: And I guess that’s my whole point in sharing this episode. These two episodes is to bring awareness to childhood grief because it is a thing. Even though child children may appear fine, they may appear like they’re not being affected. I guarantee you they are on some level. They could just be expressing what they’ve learned from you. They could be emulating what they’ve learned from you. And so take that into consideration like how have you shown up in your grief and express that to your child regardless of what their age is because you can look back in hindsight and you’re always a parent. You’re forever a parent. That never changes. So whether it is an adult child or whether it is a young child, this is an episode where you can reflect on the past and think about the lessons that you passed out to your children and maybe share this episode with them and have a conversation. Maybe some things that you would have liked to have done differently or that you wish would have gone differently. That’s grief too. Grief is a loss of hope, dreams, and expectations. Anything that we wish would have been or could be different, better, or more.
Victoria Volk: And that’s what I gotta say about that. This is for the children out there, the grievers, the most vulnerable among us, and you grow up one day. I know you’re a child. You’re not as a child, you’re not probably listening to this. But as an adult, if you were a child who experienced a lot of grief and you grew up with grief. I see you. I hear you. I know you because I am you. And this is why I’m so passionate about sharing this information today in this episode and the last episode. And I do hope that the downloads go up because there are a whole lot of children suffering in this world and there are a whole lot of adults who grew up as children who felt as though they were suffering.
Victoria Volk: And if you are now a parent like me and you were a child griever, you can break the cycle. You can break those patterns and those things that you learned that were misinformation and unhelpful to you you can learn new knowledge and new tools to support your children and to break that cycle moving forward. That’s all I gotta say today on this topic. I hope you found it helpful. Please share it with a parent that you know or love or use it as a tool for yourself to become a better version of yourself as a parent to children that you are raising. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
