Educational, Grief, Grief Tips, Mind/Body Wellness, Resources |
Grief comes in many forms, and it can manifest itself in different ways for each person. There is no right or wrong way to deal with grief. However, there are unhealthy ways in which we cope. If you are struggling with grief, it is critical to seek help from a professional therapist, counselor, or someone in-between like me (an Advanced Certified Grief Recovery Specialist).
Self-Harm
Self-harm is a form of self-abuse that involves inflicting physical harm on oneself. People who engage in self-harm often cope with intense emotions, such as anger, sadness, or pain. Self-harming behaviors can include cutting, burning, or hitting oneself.
Self-harm is extremely dangerous and can lead to further physical and emotional damage. If you are self-harming, it is vital to get help from a professional therapist right away. Delay in seeking support will only exasperate the situation.
Alcohol Or Drug Abuse
Alcohol and drug abuse are common ways many people cope with difficult emotions. People who abuse drugs or alcohol often do so in an attempt to numb their feelings or escape from reality. However, as we all know, substance abuse disorders do nothing to address the emotional pain – it only adds to it.
If you are struggling with substance abuse, consider checking into an alcohol rehab or drug rehab. There is help available, and you don’t have to struggle alone. If you’re struggling with alcohol abuse but you’re not in the position to seek therapy, there are alternatives for support such as Club Soda as well as Alcoholics Anonymous®.
Eating Disorders
Eating disorders are another way people may try to cope with grief. Those suffering from eating disorders use food to control their emotions or punish themselves. Unfortunately, eating disorders are harmful to physical and emotional health. Every year, 10,200 deaths are the direct result of an eating disorder—that’s one death every 52 minutes, according to ANAD (National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders).
If you think you may have an eating disorder, it is vital to get help from a professional therapist. There is no shame in seeking help. It is possible to get back to a healthy body image and live a fulfilling life.
Gambling
Gambling is another means of unhealthy coping with grief. People who gamble often do so in an attempt to escape from reality or make themselves feel better. However, gambling can be addictive and lead to financial ruin, not to mention the loss of relationships and self-dignity.
If you are struggling with a gambling addiction, it is crucial to get help before the walls feel like they’re caving in on you. There are many resources available, including Gamblers Anonymous. Ask yourself these twenty questions, and then take action today to take your power back in your life.
Violent Behavior
Violent behavior is another way grief manifests and is used to cope and express what the griever doesn’t have the words to share. Also, many children who grow up in violent homes learn to be in fight or flight mode. If this continues for years on end, and a child isn’t able to express that anger, it will often express itself as the child grows older. Violent people often do so in an attempt to take control of their lives or express their anger. Violence only adds to the shame of the griever and imparts grief onto others.
If you feel angry and out of control, it is essential to seek help from a professional. There is no shame in asking for help, and you can get your life back on track. Addressing the grief is an excellent start to get to what is at the heart of the issue.
Excessive spending or shopping is another way to try to cope with grief. Compulsive spenders do so to fill a void or make themselves feel better. However, excessive spending can lead to financial issues, similar to gambling. However, since this behavior doesn’t involve casinos, betting, or the like, the person excessively spending may not view the behavior as a problem. But, like gambling, it leads to secrets, shame, potential financial troubles, and of course, grief.
If you are struggling with compulsive spending, a significant first step is a financial counselor or advisor who can help you set goals and help hold you accountable. Many resources are available to help you get your finances back on track.
Withdrawal And Isolation
When the grief becomes overwhelming, or a person feels misunderstood, unheard, and alone, the response to that grief is often to withdraw or isolate. The amount of support someone has, their environment, life experience, and upbringing often influences whether a griever resorts to withdrawal and isolation. There are so many factors that play into withdrawal and isolation, but a strong emotion often present is hopelessness or despair. And, when someone feels hopeless, and any support that person had has faded, then what’s left but withdrawal? Or when someone feels hopeless, and they feel like a burden or, on the other side of the coin, get told unhelpful or hurtful things, then what’s left but to isolate?
All of these behaviors and manifestations of grief lead to a downward shame spiral and compounded grief. All of this grief accumulates in our emotional and physical bodies, and it eventually finds its way out.
I can speak for myself in how my grief and traumatic experiences perpetuated behaviors that caused more emotional suffering. When left unaddressed, grief becomes a vicious cycle. And it also feels like a rollercoaster too. You may have an experience when you are 25; you believe you deal with it when really, all you did was bury it. Ten years later, you have another experience that brings up all of those old, familiar feelings of the first experience, and you find yourself back at square one. Only this time, it feels heavier. With every loss, it feels like another suitcase you’re dragging around. Every loss experience compounds, one on top of the other until you can’t bear the weight anymore. You can’t carry it any further. And, you feel stuck, hopeless, insecure, and lost in your own body.
Does this sound familiar? I’ve been when you are. My vice was alcohol, which led to situations that took years to surface.
What has helped me? Being open to receiving help, looking for something that resonated with me, and then committing to it 100%. Whatever that thing turns out to be for you – I hope you start today in looking for it. You may be one Google (or better yet, DuckDuckGo) search away from a new tomorrow and a version of you that you thought was never possible.
If this resonated with you and you need support, I’m an email away. Contact me – help is available. And, did you know your healthcare HSA may cover Grief Recovery?
Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections | Follow Your Curiosity, Even When Grieving
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY
Curiosity is sorely underestimated. It’s not given headlines or attention, but, in my eyes, it’s responsible for most inventions. Curiosity has led to some of the world’s most significant innovations.
If there weren’t people who allowed themselves to be led by their curiosity, we never would’ve evolved from stick rubbing to flint. Someone, along the way, asked themselves better questions or was open to learning something new.
Grief makes curiosity seem like a luxury. But, what if we took the one thing that helps our society evolve and apply it to our lives at a heart and soul level?
What if you received the idea one day to go to “Google” and search for “grief support” and you do, and you find the one thing that helped you and changed your life?
What if you kept hearing people talk about Reiki and you kept seeing it popping up online or in random places, and you let your curiosity lead you to contact a Reiki Master to explain the whole “Reiki thing” to you. And you take it ten steps further and end up becoming a Reiki Master yourself after never even experiencing a Reiki session yourself? Then, to your surprise, you find that it’s the one thing that helps you maintain balance and protect your energy in support of the grief work you’re doing.
Yes, intuition plays a role, too; going within and being open to the whispers. But, curiosity is where so many great things begin.
When it comes to grief, maintaining your curiosity could be the very thing that leads you to a life-changing program (as it did for me). Don’t shortchange yourself or let fear get in the way.
What message do you want hindsight to say to you in the future?
RESOURCES:
Hey, it’s your host Victoria Volk of the unleashed heart, and you are listening to Grieving Voices. And today is episode 83, considering this is a deeper dive into the previous episode with my mentor Kristin Sherry, who is the founder of YouMap. I really highly recommend you do listen to that episode; I say that on every takeaway episode. But truthfully, I think if you’re listening to the takeaway’s episodes, you’re going to want to listen to the episodes I’m talking about. So anyway, I highly recommend that just to give some more context into what I’m going to be sharing today.
Curiosity is the Engine of Achievement
But I’m going to give like the highlights and again, dive a little bit deeper into career grief and into hindsight. Because hindsight is really this underestimated gift that we have, but it can also feel like torture. So, one of the things that Kristin said was that research shows that those who focus on others are the happiest, but what if, what you’re doing in focusing on others isn’t your calling? or isn’t lighting you up? Or isn’t ticking all the boxes of what you expected for your life? I think at 18 and even maybe 24, I don’t know, early 20s? We still think about what we want to be when we grow up. But you know, my son’s kind of facing that right now. And my kids already talked about it, and they’re 13, 15, and 16. So anyway, it’s been a topic of conversation many times in my home with our kids. And just reflecting on in our conversations on what I wanted to do or what I thought about doing when I was their age. Just the other day, I actually mentioned to my youngest that I wanted to be a marine biologist at one time. I love science. I geek out over it but that’s not how my life went. And we can make all sorts of plans and God just kind of laughs at our plans, doesn’t he? But anyway, it’s so important that we follow our curiosity because it is our curiosity, that I’ve learned, it took me probably until my closer to my 30s for me to learn this, but its important to follow your curiosity because that is what lights you up, that is what gets you excited, whatever you’re curious about, that’s what will set your priorities for the day. It’ll nurture your personality and nurture your essence of who you are. And so, I can’t stress it enough to follow your curiosity, to actually wrote that on the front page of my planner for this year. “Follow your curiosity” as a reminder to myself if I find something interesting. But I have to be careful with the rabbit holes, but because I can get down some pretty deep ones. But if I am curious about, “I wonder if this would work”, or “I wonder if I did that differently”. It’s not even just about what interests you, it’s what sparks an idea in you, or if you have a thought that you hadn’t thought before, and you don’t want to experiment and play with that thought. Especially in business, and as an entrepreneur, we’re always trying to come up with different ways of doing things. And so, it’s following that curiosity, letting that be your guide. You maybe want to pivot your business and see what is that going to look like? What looks to your curiosity to be kind of a glimmer of light in which direction to go.
Every One can Master their Grief
Kristin Sherry developed and came up with this brilliant thing that’s called YouMap. And I am a certified you map coach. I’m proud to say I’m the only certified you map coach, who is also a certified Grief Recovery specialist, who utilizes your map in grief work. And I found that YouMap was the missing piece in the work that I was doing with clients. Especially as I included it in last year’s work with clients. Kind of like as a pilot program, just to see what difference it would make. If it would make any difference at all. After I got certified, for me, it was the missing piece I felt. And so, I wanted to prove it. So, I included it with every one-on-one grief client that I worked with in 2021. And I can say that it was phenomenal for me to better understand them as a client and their grief. To be able to explain, and help them see as a client, the real true impact of their grief amongst their relationships. Because I think so many times if we really don’t understand ourselves, like, why do I keep doing these things? Or why do I keep resorting to those behaviors or, you know, a part of that, in the behaviors that we exhibit in grief is wrapped up in our personality, wrapped up in who we are, and what we value and our strength, right? And so, it is a huge component, for me, to better understand the clients I’m working with. Also helps me to better support my clients and helping them understand how their grief is different from those who are close to them, and how it might be showing up in their life differently than other people they know, who maybe have experienced the same loss.
It also has helped my clients after because grief just disrupts everything in our lives or careers or money, relationships, finances, physical, emotional health, well being. If you’re in a business, it will impact your business. Many people, especially in COVID, have found that they, you know, they call it the “big quit”. And there’s other terms that they’ve called, where people leaving their work as a result of COVID. But people have found what they value in COVID. Time and priorities have shifted. And maybe they’re following their curiosity, or maybe they’re exploring other avenues of providing for themselves. But when we’re deep in grief, as we are in during COVID, for many people on the COVID Grief on top of any other loss or issues you’re experiencing, it’s all compounded. And I would venture to guess that many of these people that are included in the statistics of the big quit, did that is an emotional response. They may not have done that, otherwise, maybe they wouldn’t have had the courage to, or whatnot.
Find Hope and Strength in Your Grief
But I’ve really given some thought too, and wondered, and pondered. I wonder how many of those people are really, definitely sure of what they’re doing or want to do. Because when we are deep in grief, it’s like as if we have a veil over our eyes. And I’ve said this many times before on the podcast that we just don’t see ourselves clearly, we don’t see other people clearly, if we’re in that frame of mind, how can we really truly make a clear decision? a confident decision of our path forward? And so that’s what YouMap has solidified for me, and actually affirmed for me, is that I am on the right path. I am doing what plays to my strengths and what I value. But for many people, they don’t have that, or they don’t experience that. And what YouMap shows them is it becomes their guide, it becomes their compass for making decisions of moving forward. You can be faced with a decision, and you can look back at your YouMap. And well does this align with my strengths? Does this match with my skills and my personality? And how I work and show up in the world? And so, we can really use it to discern big life-changing decisions in our lives. But we can also utilize it to help us better understand ourselves and those around us. I love this quote that Kristin had also shared, “If you don’t design your own life plan, chances are, you’ll fall into someone else’s plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much.” And that was by Jim Rohn. But isn’t that the truth? And that’s maybe where a lot of people during COVID times with the big quit felt like. “I’m building someone, I’m helping someone else build their empire”, and it’s helping them accomplish their goals. But what are my goals? What do I need? what do I want from my life? And so, I do think that those people who were a part of that big quit really gave that much more thought and realize that maybe they were doing remote work with their employer, and thought, well, this isn’t so bad.
Probably many people possibly also experienced work in a different way that they didn’t think they would like, and then they found they do. Yet, they realize the job isn’t a great match for them anymore. But whatever the case, may be, the landscape in the corporate world and in how we work in this world has dramatically changed. But what hasn’t changed is that there’s still going to be grief there. And that’s still going to impact your work. it’s still going to impact your finances, and your relationships, and your physical and emotional health. And so, if you are not in alignment with what you’re doing in your life, and you’re not feeling fulfilled in your life, it’s going to create even more grief for you. And on that note, I want to bring to your attention, there is a portion of the interview with Kristin, where she talks about this threatened-defend mode. It’s what she called this perception continuum. And it’s a great portion of the interview that I think really helps us better understand why we kind of put our walls up in relationships sometimes. So again, I’m going to recommend that you listen to that episode.
But I just wanted to talk about YouMap a little bit with you. Did you know that only one in thirty-three million people share the same five strengths? Because of this, you likely would never meet anyone with the same five as you. And using your strengths, decreases-stress, increases quality, productivity, and engagement in your work. People who use their strengths at work are three times more likely to say they have good quality of life, and six times more engaged at work. And this is according to Gallup polls, engaged as defined as four and half hours of the day going by unnoticed because one is so focused on what they’re doing at work. And that often happens to me. I’m sitting on my computer, I’m in the zone, I lose track of time. Before I know it, it’s 3 pm and I’m like where did the day go? That’s when I know I am in the flow. I’m utilizing my skills and my strengths. And for me, honestly, that is much of what I do in my business. It really is ticking all the boxes for me. And I want more than anything for other people to experience that too.
Bring Yourself Back To Balance
As I’m going to circle back to COVID because in everything that it’s disrupted our lives. On top of it, you might be homeschooling, you might be caring for an aged parent. And there’s actually few research centers, just over one in eight Americans is both raising a child and caring for a parent. And seven to 10 million people are doing that from long distance. There was a 2012 article called The Boomerang generation, 29% of 25–34-year-olds also live with their parents. I would actually be really interested in learning what it is today, that’s quite an old statistic. I should have looked it up a more recent one, especially with COVID. But I imagine with COVID, it’s probably much, much higher. But with inflation that we have today, as of now it’s January 2022, inflation is on the rise. And that’s kind of a hot-button topic in our news. But I can imagine that statistically, there is a whopping percentage of 25- to 33–34-year-olds that have moved in with their parents if they didn’t, before. So, what do you do if you find yourself in the situation, as I’ve described? Well, there are some questions you can ask yourself, how is the situation changing your life? Specifically, what are the elements of change at hand? And I would actually go through, and I would list all these changes, COVID-19, your feelings, your elders, youth helpers. We have to give each other grace because they’re grieving too, especially with COVID. What challenges do these changes present for you?
You have to use feeling words, you may not feel safe sharing for fear of being judged or thought less of because you have these feelings. But these conflicting feelings are grief. Maybe you feel guilt during these changes. You know, one thing with guilt, it’s not an intent to do harm. Having a job while others don’t, wishing the situation was different, better or more for friends or loved ones. If you have people in your life who’ve maybe lost everything, I know I do. I have people who are on my heart and my thoughts and my prayers because their situation is very different from mine. But I can’t feel guilty about not being in that situation. It isn’t the right word, right? Because I’m not intending to do harm. Someone who commits a murder, that was an intent to do harm. They are guilty because they did harm. Another question, what are your choices? Many feel powerless. But that’s not. That can’t change the big picture. But you can take 1% responsibility for how you respond. Look for and brainstorm choices, get creative.
Again, follow your curiosity, evaluate boundaries. So many of us lack boundaries or don’t even know a boundary if it’s slapped us in the face. I think once we work through our grief, our grief is what shows us where we didn’t have boundaries, or where we need boundaries. That was true for me. You can even make small choices. Making these small choices every day helps you get your power back. And for me, my small choices every morning, that is me. That is for me. That is my time. That is my physical mental emotional health is number one. And that the start of the day, that’s a small choice that I’ve had to make amidst the end of 2021. It was a terrible way for the year to go out. I’ve mentioned it before, that my son had an accident, weightlifting and we’re in and out of the hospital. Pretty much most of November and December, I didn’t finally feel like I could breathe and relax until probably two and a half weeks ago, three weeks ago, probably the second week in January. So, it’s really the first thing that went out the window was my self-care, my meditation. When that happened, I completely stopped meditating. My self-care was no longer my priority. But you know what, I paid the price for that. I ended up with COVID two weeks after I stopped meditating. I had COVID and that was amidst everything that was going on with my son. And so, stress is a huge indicator to us and how our bodies respond to that stress is a huge indicator too, of a red flag, to hold on, and stop the bus. You need to address this. You need to do something about this. And so, again, with all of the grief that compounds, it’s just so very important to ask yourself these these questions and make the changes necessary to bring yourself back into balance again.
And I would be remiss if I didn’t say that with COVID, and all the losses that people have experienced that there are a lot of people walking around. Maybe even you, that have undelivered communications. People may have died, or they might be living, but because of COVID, you can’t see them, or you don’t have that deep connection like you did, like two years ago, or two years into this crazy thing. Anything, or any relationship where you wish things were different or had been different, or that they would be better or more. Those things are the undelivered communications that we have in our relationships with people, whether they’re living or dead. And if we’re not feeling aligned in what we are doing, that just adds to all of our suffering. And I would just like to say, if there’s anything you take away from this episode is that suffering is optional. For me, I thought suffering was inevitable for the rest of my life. Being a Griever for over 30 years. That’s what I’ve known. It’s all that I knew. And it’s all that I thought I would ever know. But I can tell you, after doing so much inner work and personal development, that is absolutely not true. It couldn’t be further from the truth. If you have hope in your heart today, I encourage you to reach out to me or someone you know, who you feel could be a safe heart with ears, for you.
P.S. You may notice that it’s a takeaways and reflections episode, and I’m trying something new, where I’m going to follow up each guest interview with a takeaways episode instead of doing two guest interviews, and then a takeaways episode. Because I want to be able to give each episode that I do then record with a guest. I want to be able to dive a little bit deeper into the topics that we talk about things that come up in addition to my reflections, but I would like to go just a little bit deeper on those things. And so, to do that, without it becoming another hour-long episode are feeling like 13 minutes is like I’ve just skimmed the surface, which often is what happens, I’m just trying something new. So, we’ll see how it goes. I might switch back. I don’t know, I might start switching things up completely, maybe doing some more solo episodes. I’m not sure. I would definitely love some feedback if you like the conversations with the guests. If you just prefer those, I don’t even have to do a takeaways episode. But yeah, if you could please shoot me an email and share your thoughts with me, that’d be greatly appreciated, [email protected]. I would love to know what you think. This is your podcast, by the way, and I do this for you.
In fact, I recently added a heart with ears session onto my website. It’s a 60-minute session, you can find it at www.theunleashedheart.com and then go under Services. And you will see a heart with ears click on that. And you scroll down to the page. There’s a button where you can learn more on that page. Also, there’s a button there to schedule and purchase. If that is something you are needing in the near future. It is something that I can do to support Grievers who maybe go to a therapist, who want to dive deep into the grief aspect. Or maybe you’ve never sought out therapy. And you just kind of want to understand your grief better. There are many different scenarios that would be a great fit for that type of session. All of that information is on my webpage that talks about it. And so, I encourage you to check that out if you’re needing some additional support right now.
And go back to Episode 82 with Kristin Sherry, career grief, and the gift of hindsight. Well, I think we all know that Hindsight is 2020, right? And 2020 seems like forever ago. It’s just been crazy that we’ve been riding this roller coaster for so long. It’s been two years going on. So anyway, I can support you through this podcast through a heart with ears session, through Grief Recovery work. I will be relaunching my one-on-one work as I will be making some changes to that program. And so, look for those details to come in the near future. But in the meantime, remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Growth, Pespective, Podcast |
Kristin Sherry | Career Grief and The Gift of Hindsight
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY
Kristin Sherry is a bestselling and award-winning author, creator of YouMap®, a 2020 Career Innovator Award recipient, and she’s also my mentor. Her brilliance is why I am a Certified YouMap® Coach.
If you have been struggling with your life path, career, purpose, or what I like to call – a midlife unraveling, this episode is for you!
Grief is the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations. When it comes to what we spend most of our waking hours doing if we don’t love it, don’t utilize all of our skills, or aren’t valued, grief is often the result.
It’s also for you if you’ve experienced grief of any kind, too. Why? Because, also in this episode, Kristin and I talk about why I include this program with my one-on-one grief recovery clients and why as grievers, we can sometimes feel isolated within our love relationships.
Kristin shares how her own losses and career grief have shaped her work today and why perception matters. We also get into how the way we grieve, when misunderstood, can cause further conflict and grief in our lives.
There will be golden nuggets (and a new favorite analogy of mine) in this episode you’ve likely never heard before (even if you’ve listened to every previous episode). I hope this episode inspires you. And, if you want more inspiration after you listen, be sure to follow Kristin on Instagram!
“The more you know yourself, the less you look to others to tell you who you are.”
– Kristin Sherry
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 00:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today I’m very excited to share my guest, Kristin Sherry. She is a mentor of mine, and she is also the best selling and award-winning author and creator of the YouMap profile, the 20 Career Innovator Award recipient from Career Directors International, and she is the managing partner of YouMap LLC, as coaches, consultants and leaders as YouMap. Coaches. Kristin is the author of international bestseller YouMap, and a pen craft award winner in business for her management book. Your team loves Mondays, right? She’s also the author of Mom’s Choice Awards called Children’s Books, You’ve Got Gifts, You’ve Got Values, co-authored by Lila Smith, and You’ve got Skills, and the 2010 a book of the year, Maximize 365 from Indie Book Awards. Thank you so much for being here.
Kristin Sherry 01:51
Thank you, Victoria. It’s been a long time coming, hasn’t it?
Victoria Volk 01:55
Yes. For those who don’t know, Kristen Sherry, because she is the co-creator of YouMap. She is who I received my certification through for YouMap as well. And how many YouMap coaches are there would you say?
Kristin Sherry 02:13
I think we’re we’re just coming up to 130 and seven countries.
Victoria Volk 02:18
Now that’s a very small group in the scope of the world.
Kristin Sherry 02:23
Yeah, we certify in small batches of six, so it takes a while.
Victoria Volk 02:29
But it’s growing, it’s really growing and expanding. And that’s, it’s amazing. And I so many coaches in our small circle are doing amazing things with YouMap. I incorporate it with my grief recovery work as I feel like it was the missing piece in the work that I was doing with people because career grief is a huge aspect of life. And we don’t necessarily connect the dots of what’s happening in our lives personally with grief if we’ve lost a loved one or things like that, because grief is a real clarifier in a lot of ways for many of us, and we might have, you know, the death of a breadwinner in our home. And so, we suddenly find ourselves having to navigate, first maybe entering the workforce for the first time or maybe needing to really buckle down and find something that’s more sustainable or stable or offers more income. So, I really am excited about this conversation because it is an aspect of grief that has not been talked about on the podcast as of yet. And who better than to have a career expert like you. So, thank you.
Kristin Sherry 03:39
Yeah, I think we can tend to minimize and say, oh, you know, career grief, that’s, oh, that’s not a saying or that’s not very important. The only thing that really matters is grief around losing people, right? Because people are more important. And that’s true. But what people are forgetting is we in the western world tend to connect our identity to our career. And we have relationships in our workplace. And so, when we lose that role, or that job, or that position, or whatever happens, we also lose that daily connection with those relationships we had and also our identity does take a hit. Ideally, we don’t connect our identity to our career, but that’s so common. What’s the first thing you hear people say when you meet them most times is so what do you do?
Victoria Volk 04:31
The Kristin Sherry that you were maybe 20 years ago to the Kristin Sherry who developed YouMap and career grief, maybe? Maybe grief otherwise in your life? That clarified things for you because I just said you know; Grief is a clarifier.
Kristin Sherry 04:48
Yeah, that’s true. I’ve had a lot a lot of that actually. I’ve had a lot of career grief. I’ve had more career grief, as a form of loss, if you will, then I’ve had grieving of losing people. So, and I think that’s probably because I’ve transitioned so much in my career, I’ve, I’ve, I’m like a serial job changer I was before I owned my own business. I have had situations where I quit my job and took a new job. And then someone showed up with a gun on site, and the place shut down. So, I had quit my job and started a new job. And then I couldn’t go to work at my new job because of this domestic violence situation that happened at the company and that I was thrown into this super chaotic situation. I’ve had situations where I’ve had to quit my job with nothing lined up and I was the primary breadwinner because of very unusual toxic workplace situations happening. That was just not sustainable to stay there. I’ve had situations where I was offered a promotion in a different department in the company, and was given a counteroffer by in my department, so I declined a significant promotion, and they reneged on their counteroffer of promoting me. So I lost an amazing job offer. Because they didn’t follow through, I’ve I’ve had situations where my husband and I both lost our jobs the same week. And we found ourselves with two kids. At that time, I have four now, but we had two kids and no income. And no savings really, either at that time. So yeah, and that’s just, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on, but you get the idea. I’ve had a lot of a lot of career disappointment.
Victoria Volk 06:55
I imagine you knew your value. And that’s what kind of kept you pursuing things. But what can you speak to that? And in particular, about how, when were not valued, like you said, you were, they didn’t follow through. And so, they didn’t value you as an employee. Can you speak to how when our values are dishonored, kind of adds to the grief too?
Kristin Sherry 07:20
Oh, there’s a lot to unpack here. So, there’s a couple of things that I would say in terms of how I’ve been able to navigate those things. First of all, the benefit of hindsight, the job that I did not take the promotion because I accepted the counteroffer of the the department I was in if I had to if I hit if they had not countered, offered, for example, and I had gone to the department it was running the bio physics department in this it was a Yeah, it was a graduate level biophysics program. And it would have been basically being the administrator of that program. And if I had gone that path, I would have probably become a dean of a university or that that would have been the career path I had been on. But that happening led me to pivot my career and meet my husband, so and he’s my best friend and my favorite person, the whole world. So, I literally would have gone down, we lived in different states, we didn’t have any mutual friends, our paths would not have crossed. I met him because of the new career I transitioned into, because he transitioned and in the same career as well. So it’s hard for me to lament my employers are screaming over. It led to really one of the best things that’s ever happened to me in my life. So, I would say, I tend to believe in a friendly universe over a hostile universe. And I believe that things work for my good. Even when I don’t see what’s being taken away from me a door that’s closing, I don’t see that as a positive thing. I was mad. I was very mad when that happened. But with the benefit of hindsight, I can see how that path ended up working more in my favor. Because path I was on actually wasn’t a good career fit for me anyway. So I always say to myself this or something better this or something better when I want something in my career. And when the door closes or something doesn’t come through for me, I say, Oh, I’m getting something better. So there’s this perception and when you believe in a friendly universe over a hostile universe, that things are working for you or that you can be the architect. We’re not in control of everything. But we can take the pieces and parts and bits that were given and recycled them into something great. So there’s this perception continuum that I learned about when I got my masters certification and brain basically Coaching, which when you coach people, a lot of it is dealing with anger, fear, baggage, they have situations childhood trauma, family of origin stories, people come to the table with a lot of other things other than the situation you’re helping them with, as you know, as a grief counselor. And so as a career coach, I wasn’t just dealing with help someone find a job, right? What’s their attitude of getting fired from that job? Do they feel? Who am I without that job? Are they feeling this sense of identity loss? Are they feeling like a failure? Because they can’t provide for their family in that moment? Are they feeling on useful? Because they feel like all they’re doing is sitting at a computer job searching? So you’re dealing with this mental aspect, right? So the perception continuum continuum, is around helping people actively manage their mindset, because we spend about 80% of our thought life in a sort of default network, our thoughts are largely going on unconsciously, we have about 80% of the thoughts that that we have every day repeat themselves. So there’s this track that plays every day, I’m worthless, I’m never going to find love, I’m going to be alone forever. nobody appreciates me my life has no meaning whatever we tell ourselves, we tend to repeat those messages daily, day after day. And because those thoughts go subconsciously, they tend to go unregulated, when we’re just they, they run away with us. And then what happens is, we start to have some sort of biological reaction to those thoughts. So we’re having these negative thoughts, they put us into this sense of fear, harm, and despair. And then so we start to have actions, those thoughts become things so we withdraw, we become self protective, we become angry, we start feeling depressed, our brain starts to release neuro chemicals that put us into the fight flight freeze mode. And so those thoughts are not harmless because they become they, we start releasing chemicals in our brain in response to those thoughts. And then it affects our actions. And I remember my mother saying to me, when I was younger, at first, I had sort of a negative reaction to it, she said people’s lives are largely a product of the decisions they make. I had a negative reaction to that, because first of all, I didn’t like the accountability that was attached to that. And I thought, well, people have a lot of bad things happen that are outside of their control. But what I didn’t realize is how we respond and react to those things, the decisions we make, and even the indecision not acting as a decision, right. So if we go through life, and we don’t act, and we don’t act, and we don’t act, decisions can be made for us. And so when she said people’s lives are largely a product of the decisions they make, I thought, I’m going to make sure that I’m proactive and making those decisions because I didn’t want those decisions made for me, or I didn’t want my indecision to lead to outcomes that I didn’t want. And so that was sort of the start of the journey for me. So the perception continuum has two parts to it. And it’s like a coin, you know, you have heads on one side and tails on the other. So on one side of the coin is that threat and defend model that comes from the fight, flight, freeze, response, threat and defend and when we are in a threat and defend mode, we feel a sense of harm, we feel we have no options. We feel things are unfair, we feel broken, we start to feel doubt, fear, confusion, we look at things from the perception of loss, deficit and lack and that leads to despair. So we might start to feel offended, we might start to avoid we become self focused at navel gazing, we start to put walls up to protect ourselves and we disengage and we withdraw. But there are options to choose for each one of those things. Instead of feeling harm we can choose to feel safe and so we we then choose to be on the other side of the coin, which is the flow flourish model so creating safety for example. So when we feel we have no options, we can say oh, I have the freedom to choose when we feel something’s unfair. We can choose gratitude. When we feel broken. We can focus on feeling whole. We can choose optimism over doubt. So you can see everything has a companion fear The other side of fear is trust. The other side of confusion is what’s the meaning in this. The other side of loss lack and deficit is I have enough I will be provided for the other side of despair is hope. And instead of avoiding, you can press in and approach a person or people or situation instead of disengaging. You can engage with authenticity instead of being self focused. You can look at the big picture, instead of being offended, you can give people the benefit of the doubt, there’s always another choice. Well, so how do you get there? Well, the first thing is when you lose a job, for example, or you apply for a position and it’s not given to you, you don’t get that promotion, where you get an injury, and you can’t pursue what you let’s just say you wanted to go into the military and you don’t pass the physical, or let’s just say, you want to be a hand surgeon, and you have an injury on your hand. And now you can your whole career you had planned out? Well, when I lost my my job, I said, you know, this is disappointing. And I’m going to be grateful for the friendships I made for the experience I gained. And I know that I am going to be okay, I’m excited to see what’s next. For me, this is going to open up opportunities to try something new, meet some new people. And I think we claw into our circumstances because we don’t like change. Most people don’t like change, some people do. And we definitely don’t like change that wasn’t on our timetable. And by our design. It’s someone else’s change imposed on us. But we can choose how we respond to that. Where is the opportunity in this? What is something I’ve always wanted to do or try instead. And so when those doors closed one time, I got a training email from our company, it was a job board. Notice, it was a director of training position, and I was a, I was, at the time I was an interim Senior Manager of operations. I said, Oh, I’d love to go into training, I always want to work in training. So I applied for this job as the director of training, and I had done a lot of the work with my team that they were looking for. So I thought, Oh, I had the experience. I’ve heard I already know the company. I’m already in the company. I didn’t even get called for an interview, let alone not get an offer. And I thought, oh, that’s unbelievable to me that I never even got called in for an interview. I checked all the boxes here. But I came to find out later that this division had a terrible work life balance. Everyone worked 80 to 100 hours a week there. And culturally, it would have been a terrible fit. I had two small children, and I was a single mother. So if I had got that job, it would have been a disaster for my family. So when you start to look back at six situations that were disappointing, you can apply this perception continuum. What was the time that I felt something was unfair, and I was able to be grateful that that actually ended up happening? What was a time that I was doubtful, but really optimism was warranted because of how it worked out, or what was a time where I wanted to withdraw and focus on myself. But I focused on other people serving others looking at the big picture and showed up and engage and how did that work out? What was the time that I feared something and that fear never even came to fruition? I think when we look back, and can see all of the things that were disappointments that actually worked out. That helps us see that ultimately, we can have faith in a universe that is not hostile toward us toward us, but that works in our favor.
Victoria Volk 19:06
It came up for me and I was listening to your talk is which is very applicable for my life right now. But it’s wanting the proof or the evidence before we have it right? And so, I think what you’re saying is these asking yourself these better questions, like these hindsight type questions, to bring the awareness of, to bring real life awareness to examples that you’ve experienced before in your life, where it wasn’t the worst-case scenario where it worked out in your favor, where it worked out for your higher good and in everything that you’re speaking to. So, it’s not like this Pollyanna approach where Oh, just think better thoughts. It’s, yeah, it’s looking for evidence in your life before in these hindsight type questions. And I think that’s, that’s a great way to actually live our lives in every aspect.
Kristin Sherry 19:57
Yeah, there’s I think when we’re looking at a situation that we’re in, we don’t factor in a lot of variables we factor in, I’m disappointed because I didn’t get what I wanted. But we don’t factor in look at the people who stepped up and gave us love and support. Or look at the strength that I discovered that I never knew that I had. There’s a saying that says you never know how strong you are, until you have to be. Right. When we’re in those trials, that’s when we have a chance to actually shine because we can we learn and grow from those experiences. Our friendships can deepen, yes, you will also have some stripped away, because the people that you thought would be there for you or not. But you know what, that’s a gift too. It’s a gift to have your relationships clarified, to use that word that you use earlier, who are the people that I should be spending the most time and attention with the PN, you know, you have to give great people grace to like, you don’t know what people are going through. And so someone may not have shown up for you because they’re in the pit too. So, you have to, and you didn’t know that they were in the pit because you weren’t around for them either.
Victoria Volk 21:23
Right, that is an in during the time of this pandemic, that’s very, very likely to be true for most many people. I shouldn’t say most, but for many, you know, with careers and transitions and changes and loss, so much loss.
Kristin Sherry 21:43
Yeah, but I will tell you that I did a lot of research, when I wrote when I wrote my book maximize 365 A year of actionable tips to transform your life. I did research on happiness. And people who focus intently on themselves. Like where are your thoughts all the time is the first thing you think about when you wake up your situation, your problem? And do you carry that through the day? Are you even getting your eyes up off your desk, and looking around and seeing who can you help who might need you? It’s difficult to want to serve people when you’re hurting, I get that. But research shows that people who serve others and focus on others are the happiest people who focus and navel gaze on themselves are the most miserable. And when I think about people that I know that every time I talk to them, they just wallow in their own situations. And all they do is talk about themselves. I realize, oh, this is not this is not because of their situation. This is because the setting they have themselves on and it’s going to be another situation another situation another situation. Because I will get to the end of the year. And I’ll say, Boy, that was a great year. And every year I say that, and the next year is going to be better and better and better. But it’s like well, wait a minute. I’ve had two miscarriages. My grandmother died when I didn’t think she was going to die. Like I when I was 19 years old. My mother told me my grandmother was in the hospital. And I was like, oh, well, I’ll just visit her when she gets out. Like my grandmother was a really strong woman. She was just like a hero in our family. She never took crap from anyone. She was just this the strongest woman, and she was an advocate for education and learning. She was very intelligent, and a well-read woman. And I just admired her so much. And she used to pick me up from school and bring me home and make me lunch. And I was in elementary school, and I would hang out with her. And so when my mom said she was in the hospital, I was like, oh, I’ll just I’ll visit her when she gets out. And then my mom came home and said, you know, Grandma John’s died. And I was like, what that was not what was supposed to happen. I was just It never occurred to me. She was 80. But it never occurred to me that she would die. This is my grandmother was so strong, she was going to come back from anything. And even though every year has one of those things, I mean, I don’t lose a family member every single year but my cat was viciously attacked a cat I had. I was eight years old. And then when I was 24, she was viciously attacked by to name her dogs and and it was it was a horribly traumatic experience. And but yet every year I’m never saying Oh, I’m so glad for this. I can’t wait for this awful year to be over. And I said to my husband one day, why is it that I never feel that way? Like I can’t wait for this terrible year to be over? And he said because you focus on the good things that happened that year, not the bad things. And I said yeah, that’s exactly what it is. And I get it like Some things that people go through are really, really bad, like way beyond getting fired from your job. I’m not suggesting people say, this was such a great year, you know, when they lose a child or something like that, I get I get that I’m not being glib when I say this. But just in general, I’m talking about the mindset, the perspective. And the example I use is when you look at the moon in the sky, if you stand and put your thumb over the moon, you can cover the entire moon with your thumb, and not even see the moon. And so you can eclipse the moon with your little thumb, but the moon is quite large, right? So we can Eclipse and ignore our blessings by focusing on this problem, this system is the problem and eclipse the abundance that we have in our lives.
Victoria Volk 25:52
I love that analogy. Because I have a confession, I’ve been one of those that’s been saying I can’t wait till this year is over.
Kristin Sherry 25:59
I hear it every year. I hear it every year people. And this is a tough time for a lot of people, no doubt, because my parents live in another country. And so, I’m feeling a lot of stress and anxiety now because I’m trying to go see them over Christmas. But I have to have a PCR test for me and my kids and my husband. Like I have four kids and my husband and me. So, we all have to get PCR tests and get the results within a 72-hour window. And we’re supposed to go the 27th but it’s Christmas on Saturday. So there’s not going to be anything doing tests. And will they even be open on Sunday, and Friday is going to be too soon and Mondays too late. So now I’m like, ah, how am I going to see my mom and dad, my dad had a very critical health scare this year, we got to the emergency room. And my mother was told if she had brought him in even an hour later, he would not have survived because his he was in sepsis, septic shock. And his whole stomach had filled with bile. And he was vomiting bile which is terminal. If it gets in your windpipe and into your lungs, he was on the edge of death. And I was able to get into Canada earlier this year to be able to see him and thankfully survived and he’s getting stronger. It was very touching go situation if my dad was going to make it to my parents are 77 and 76. And we’re in a situation where we live in different countries. And so that is very stressful, a lot of people who are separated from loved ones because of the pandemic. So, in a situation like that, instead of me just everyday focusing on Oh, I can’t be with my parents, and I know I’m going to lose my parents and I won’t be able to go their funeral instead of like catastrophizing like that. I focus on Well, what can I do? And so we can get on video, chat and talk and see each other. And we can send each other messages every day. And we make videos of the kids to send to them. And we’re going to try and get over there. But I don’t know if we’ll be able to get across the border. But we’ll see. Fingers crossed. Yeah. But yeah, I know a lot of people are in those types of situations. But it really doesn’t serve you well to it’s not harmless to wallow in the stress of your circumstances. Because when you feel really bad that big that becomes spec becomes physical, right, you get ulcers, and I mean, I’m not telling you anything, you don’t know all of the different physical ailments that come from stress. So, I tried to I exercise every day, I do have a rest day but I exercise every day, you can get a 12 hour mood boost from walking in the forest from the oxygen coming off of the trees. But it’s funny because we turn to food a lot of times and sugar in particular, which is really quite poisonous in our body and large amounts. processed sugar fruit, natural sugars are great maple syrup, pure maple syrup, and fruits and things like that. But we turn to food. And that that sugar might give you an immediate boost, but it actually tanks, your mood food affects your mood. And so, when we’re not eating clean foods or eating the processed junk that gives us that that drug it’s like sugar is more addictive than cocaine you know. So, it gives you that immediate but you have the crash of drugs that that crash afterwards sugar gives you the same thing You’re much better off exercising for a mood boost than eating ice cream.
Victoria Volk 30:06
I were just talking before we started to record, and I was telling you about my son who’s been kind of in and out of the hospital the last few weeks and we just came out of a stent of him being in the hospital and I was telling you how just physically, that stress has manifested in my body, like even my eyeballs hurt, like to put my eyeballs up. It’s like, oh, and I’ve canker sore the size of Texas and yeah, to my lip. Like that’s my first like, that’s usually the first thing that happens is I get canker sores. And, and so yes, absolutely 1,000% stress manifests in our bodies grief manifests in our bodies. And I think that’s one of the first things that goes out the window, when I’m stressed is my self care. The one thing that you need the most we often neglect when we really need it. And it’s really difficult in hospitals to I suppose I could walk the halls and I should have like, I’m like, now hindsight. It’s like, huh, we definitely need to walk more, you know, instead of just sit, you know, you do so much sitting,
Kristin Sherry 31:09
Do laps around the hospital for sure.
Victoria Volk 31:13
Right? Yeah. I would love to hear more. And for the listeners to learn more about YouMap in how that transition into you creating that has changed your life and how you’ve seen it change so many other people’s lives because I absolutely am a huge proponent of YouMap. I like I said, I’ve incorporated it into the Grief Recovery work that I do with my clients, because I feel like it was the missing piece for for many. And so yeah, take it away, please share more.
Kristin Sherry 31:41
So YouMap was created by accident, I think accidental entrepreneur would be a good title for me. I was really unhappy in my own career. And I know people are using the map for a lot more than career stuff. But I was unhappy in my career. And I kept going from job to job and it would give me a new shot in the arm for a little while. But then a year in I was getting wanderlust again, and I would want to leave. And I really didn’t understand why. And I started to feel guilt around that. First of all, I felt guilt because I was sort of disengaged at work. And I felt guilty that my employer in some cases, I was getting paid six figures, and I was daydreaming out the window half the day not being as productive as I could have been. And then I also felt guilty because I had this great paying job that I had dread going to. And I thought I had a gratitude problem, then I was really grateful in a lot of other areas of my life. So I didn’t know that that was exactly true. So what was wrong, I didn’t really know. But what was wrong was I really didn’t know myself. And I didn’t know the reasons of the conditions of career fulfillment, what would fulfill me and what wouldn’t. And so I kept putting myself into situations that really didn’t align with who I was. And I came to find out that career success is really predicated on self awareness. When they look at people who are the most successful and happiest in their career, and really, in their life. Self awareness is really where it’s at. Why? Well, first of all, if you know your gifting, you can align to what you do well to things. So your you can use your talents and work becomes effortless to you because you do things naturally well, and instead of working against the grain of who you are, but really what’s key is the values. They’re all important all too. So YouMap looks at a person’s strengths. Their values are what’s most important to them, their preferred skills, what burns them out versus what brings them energy and their personality. And the personality is around your motivation and your preferences and your interests. They stem from personality. But for me, I had a values problem. And the reason I was unhappy in my job is because autonomy was in my it was my number two value is the second most important thing to me. And so I would go to a new job. And it would be great at first but then the bosses would say no to my ideas, or I’d have to do things I didn’t like doing. There was always something that I felt that I was sort of not in control of my work. And I started to realize I need to work for myself. And that’s not for everyone. And I think when people go around pushing everyone needs to be an entrepreneur. That’s so not true. That is absolutely not true. For a lot of reasons, but for me, I was never going to be fulfilled because I wanted to write the script for my own life. And I couldn’t do that as long as I was working for other people because there’s a quote by Jim Rohn that says if you don’t design your own life plan, chances are you’ll fall into someone else’s plan and guess what they have planned for you not much. And that’s how I felt at work every day that I was in someone else’s plan instead of fulfilling my own plan. So once that happened, once I realized what my own values were, I started to look at that whole big picture, which gave me the four pillars of career fit, I interviewed people, I started taking notes, of why people were unhappy, why they were fulfilled. And I started to look at the patterns. And I knew that I had to understand how people worked, why they worked, what they wanted to work on, and who they are, I needed to know those four things about people to really help them and so that that fast forward, people are using you, Matt, for all kinds of things. Now, like you said, for grief counseling, how do you grieve? Are you a big thinker, so you grieve by going inward, and you’re grieving the loss of a child and your spouse is a relational person, their gifting is building connections with people and your gifting is thinking. And so now they want to connect with you. But you’re coping inside, and they get divorced. Because the the one who’s the relationship builder feels rejected, and neglected, and the one who is the thinker that needs to process internally feel smothered by the other person, and they don’t feel understood. And they don’t feel like the other person is meeting their needs, whether that’s giving me space, or whether that’s pressing in and connecting with me, that’s just a very simple example, to show. When we understand who we are, we start to understand other people. And then we don’t take it personally when we grieve differently, as an example.
Victoria Volk 36:50
And that’s a beautiful way, the way you said that. And actually, it’s a great segue to into talking about how that can trickle into relationship grief. Like you just said, people can end up divorce because they simply don’t understand how each other is wired. I’m very much a thinker, I’m in my head. And just like you said, my husband is very much more of creating that connection. And so, I tend to feel smothered, sometimes.
Kristin Sherry 37:17
Doing a certification class, one of the women in the certification class lost a child. And she said, in the class, you know, if I had gone through YouMap, and my husband had gone through YouMap, when we lost our baby, I think the baby was stillborn. They didn’t know anything was wrong until we’re maybe within the first couple of days. But anyway, I think that’s what happened. She said, I don’t think we would have been divorced. She came to that conclusion, when she started to understand how she processed and how she she said, I don’t think we would have ended up divorced if we had known if we had done this.
Victoria Volk 37:57
And this is why I think this is the bit has been the missing piece for the work that I do. And so, I’m glad that that the conversation went there. And you brought that up, because I think it’s it’s huge. What are some things that you look forward to, with you map in, in, in in your own life with, you know?
Kristin Sherry 38:18
Oh, boy, I am looking forward, there’s a couple of things I’m looking forward to continually innovating you map so that it can be used in ways I can’t even fathom right now, I get excited thinking about taking places that I can’t even tell you right now, because it’s so like out of the box that I don’t even know what it is yet. I get excited thinking about what’s possible for it. But I also get excited thinking about, perhaps one day starting a Foundation, a nonprofit foundation to help people with you map. And we can employ people, but the people who use our services don’t have to pay for it. So, we can help people getting out of prison with you man so that they don’t. So, they understand their value because you met those confidence when you start to realize what you have to offer. And you have innate abilities. Even if you’ve been incarcerated for most of your adult life, I look forward to being able to offer it to people who are in a situation of domestic violence because first of all, when women or men are in a domestic violence situation, they don’t tend to control the finances or anything but so to be able to help them build their confidence in who they are, just by understanding themselves better alone, and then having a tool to see how they could provide for themselves and what careers would be a good fit for them. Those types of things. I really get excited thinking about giving people hope through UMap in incarceration, dementia Sick violence, potentially even homeless people. I’d like to have a foundation; I’d like to be able to fund it myself sort of Bill and Melinda Gates don’t need donations from people building the business to the point where I can then fund a nonprofit and everyone. So Lila Smith always says she’s a YouMap. Coach, she always says the world needs to be you mapped. And the reason that she said that was because when she got certified as EMF coach, she worked with her first she does communication, consulting, using it, but she worked with her first client. And they had a breakthrough on a communication problem they’ve been having with their boss. And this woman had been struggling with this problem. And it just YouMap illuminated what the issue was like, boom. And so it was so exciting for Lila to be able to give that client that breakthrough. She called me from the back of an Uber after she was leaving that meeting. And she was so excited. She just said, this is this was that was just the most incredible feeling and to be able to bring her to that point. And she said, The world must be human. The world must be you mapped in her excitement. And so that’s sort of in the running joke. And I’ve thought about that ever since she said it. And I thought, well, the only way the world is going to be you mapped is if it’s accessible to everyone. So, I that’s what I think about.
Victoria Volk 41:21
I 100% agree. And actually, some of the recent Grief Recovery clients that I’ve had that I’ve used, YouMap with them. Both of them have had career big shifts in their lives, as far as career and one of them is looking to start a podcast and really just under looking at the YouMap just coming back to that every time. And looking at truly like you said it builds confidence. And it was very affirming for me that what I do in my work is spot on. Like I am in full alignment. And so that was the beautiful gift that it gave me was yes, I am on the right path. So, it can do that for you too.
Kristin Sherry 42:07
Yeah, absolutely. I always use my own new map to guide me. It’s my my guiding light. If you map says no, I’m not going to get involved in things. Why would you want to do this when you’re you map says no.
Victoria Volk 42:24
Right? It’s a tangible piece of real estate of who you are. Yeah, you can look at.
Kristin Sherry 42:32
Yeah, summarised and visual. That’s how I like things.
Victoria Volk 42:36
Yes. Same. What is one thing that you would suggest to someone who I know you’ve had a lot of suggestions and the advice, like the different questions are amazing. But for someone who isn’t sure if the career is the problem? Or if it’s something else, do you have a way to help someone discern that?
Kristin Sherry 43:01
Sure. So, I have an ideal day exercise that I love to give people. And if you want to put it in the show notes, I can give you a URL to a quick video that people can watch to do it. But if you just go through and think about all the times in your life that you really enjoyed work that you were doing. Even if you hated the job, what were things that you enjoyed. So maybe you had a customer service job that you absolutely hated. But you loved chit chatting with the customers. Or maybe you you had a job as a data entry person and you hated data entry. But you really loved the mission of the organization you work for. So what were the things that you enjoyed, or that you liked? And if you write all those things down? What are the themes that you see? Did you love problem solving? Did you love creating? Did you love thinking and analyzing? Did you love meeting new people? And are you doing that now in your life? How far is your life? Now? How far have you drifted from this list of things? That that really made you happy in your work? And if it’s not the actual work, what you’re doing isn’t the problem, then maybe it’s your values? So what are times that you felt really satisfied, fulfilled and happy in your life? Not because of work, per se but what that work gave you. So did you thrive on being independent? Or was it community that you really love to really learning and growing? Or did you were you in circumstances where you just got to enjoy the beauty of creation? Or were you in situations where you felt respected or you had expertise or or something, the things that you valued and are those things being fulfilled in your life? So if it’s not how you’re spending your time and what you’re doing, it might be where you’re doing it or who you’re doing it for.
Victoria Volk 44:57
I love that and I know you don’t work one on one with people. And so, if anyone listening, they might want to say, I really want to work with this Kristin’s charity, but they can’t, right. Is that correct? Yeah. But you have all these brilliant books that you’ve put out, which I highly recommend you map as the book is a great start as well as maximize 365, then you love to segue into the children’s books, because I think, just like helping children with loss program and Grief Recovery is intervention. I think in a lot of ways your books are the intervention of helping children build that confidence before the world gets a hold of you, right?
Kristin Sherry 45:37
For sure. Yeah, I had a mom write me on LinkedIn. And she said her four-year-old daughter had been molested by her dad, by her own dad, not not the mom’s dad. And obviously, that’s an immense trust break and trauma. And she had been reading through the children’s I think it was the first one, you’ve got gifts, because there’s four of them. And she said that, helping her see her gifting. And what was wonderful about her, was really increasing her confidence. Because I think when kids are betrayed, for lack of a better word, by the adults in their life, they don’t view the adult as the problem. What a terrible evil person. They view themselves as bad and dirty. And so that’s why she wrote me because she just said she was grateful that her daughter had something to to show her what was good about her. Course, there’s nothing bad about her from that situation. But she was feeling that way
Victoria Volk 46:44
Gave her hope. For herself. Yeah. So yeah, again, like I said, intervention, intervention.
Kristin Sherry 46:53
If somebody does want to go through the map process, and it’s not grief related, if it’s career related, you could go to my youmap.com. And you can either get a YouMap yourself, and there’s a workbook that goes with it, to work through it. Or you can go to the Find a coach page, to find a coach that focuses on career. But if somebody is dealing with a loss from a grief perspective, of course, I recommend they work with you.
Victoria Volk 47:17
Because I am the only Grief Recovery specialist that is certified.
Kristin Sherry 47:20
In the whole world, you are the only one.
Victoria Volk 47:23
Yes, I can say that for a long time. Yes, I highly, highly recommend it. Yeah, like you said, you can do the DIY. And that’s certainly a viable option. But I do think the coaching really helps to implement and facilitate or what you know, I think a lot of it, too, is the accountability piece.
Kristin Sherry 47:48
Also the coaches will add insights that you won’t be able to add yourself because you’re too close to yourself, you need that third party objective person to help you look into your situation and reveal things that you can’t see, because you can’t see the forest for the trees.
Victoria Volk 48:02
You can’t see the label inside the jar. Right?
Kristin Sherry 48:04
Yeah, I always say that it’s hard to read the label when you’re inside the jar.
Victoria Volk 48:10
And that’s true with grief as well. What gives you the most hope for Well, I kind of asked that already. I’ll just give you the floor. Is there anything else that you think would be pertinent to people during this pandemic? In the work that you’ve done? And created all through these past several years that let’s just say, let’s say you had the mic for five minutes? Mm hmm. What is the one message that you would like to share with people?
Kristin Sherry 48:38
I think it’s, I think the simplest message is just find out what you do best that other people need most. So how do you do that? Well, when you start to think about things you do well, you can ask other people, what was the time I made an impact in your life? Can you tell me about a time you saw me doing something out of my gifting something that I did naturally? Well, and how was that helpful? Or how did that make an impact? And when you ask 10 People that you’ll start to see patterns? Whether they say, Boy, you just a really good listener, you’re really good at make holding space for people and making me feel seen and heard. And just Everyone’s so busy, I feel like you’re the only person that sees me, or maybe they say, you always know the right thing to say in every situation. Or maybe they say, anytime I come to you with a problem, you’re able to just hone in and see exactly what the problem is that I couldn’t see. So what is it that you always just do Well, naturally? And who can you help with that? Because when you’re in a difficult situation, the best way to feel a sense of purpose and usefulness and is by making a difference in other people’s lives because I truly believe that so think about marriage when People try to, to fulfill themselves to get what they want in the marriage, it doesn’t work. But when you try to fill fulfill the needs of the other and they do that to you, everyone’s needs are met. It’s it’s really true when you look out for people obviously look out for number one that does not work in marriage doesn’t work in any relationship, you need boundaries. 100% boundaries are important. But when you service the needs of your partner, and they service your needs as well, everyone is more fulfilled than when you endeavor to fulfill your needs yourself. There’s something magical about that, about meeting one another’s needs, then each trying to meet their own needs individually, it’s like something magical happens. Well, it’s the same thing in all relationships. I think if you figure out what it is that you do best, and you apply it to people where you feel passionate to help, your fulfillment in life will go up. I was a selfish person. When I was younger, I always worried about myself, what was best for me, and that just didn’t get me anywhere. And the minute I started to invest in other people and making a difference in other people’s lives, my purpose and my fulfillment just went through the roof. So that’s what I would recommend to people stop navel gazing, figure out your gifting what you do best, who needs it? And marry those two things together?
Victoria Volk 51:27
I love it. I love it. Is there anything else you’d like to share?
Kristin Sherry 51:31
No, I don’t think so. Except for actually, if you go to if you want to have some free videos on some of my content, if you go to youtube.com/c/kristensherry, or just search for Kristin Sherry on YouTube, I have a ton of videos on there to help people in a lot of different areas. mindset stuff, self confidence career, the ideal day exercise, figuring out your strengths, your values, it’s all on there on the videos.
Victoria Volk 52:06
And I will put that in the show notes the link as well. Excellent. And how can others find you as well? If they want to find you on social media? Where are you at?
Kristin Sherry 52:17
Probably you can reach me on Instagram @careerkristin, Twitter @YouMapcreator? Um, that’s I mean, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I don’t I’m kind of on a sabbatical from LinkedIn right now. I got burned out day after day contributing there. So, I’m sort of taking a little break. It’s been a couple months now. But you can connect to me there for sure. But I only checked my messages like once once a week there.
Victoria Volk 52:47
Or on myyoumap.com, right?
Kristin Sherry 52:49
Yeah, through the website? Yes. I actually have not delegated the messages to my operations manager me me. I read and respond to every message to the website myself. A lot of people say I should probably delegate that. But I like doing that.
Victoria Volk 53:04
That’s your baby. Right? YouMap is your baby. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I think this is such an important topic, given this long drawn-out pandemic that is continuing well into 2022 It seems but so thank you so much for your time today. I greatly appreciate it. And I have no doubt that anyone listening is going to find some value in what you’ve had to share today. So thank you.
Kristin Sherry 53:37
Thank you, Victoria. It was a pleasure.
Victoria Volk 53:40
And thank you for being a mentor of mine.
Kristin Sherry 53:43
My pleasure. I love it. I love meeting all the YouMap coaches and investing in you guys. It’s my joy.
Victoria Volk 53:48
And it is a phenomenal program to by the way the support is bar none.
Kristin Sherry 53:53
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Victoria Volk 53:56
All right. And remember when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections | The Energy of Grief
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
We have more agency over our physical, emotional, and spiritual bodies than we would like to admit.
Admitting that we have power and control over ourselves is admitting that it’s also our job to do something about the issues that plague our physical, emotional, and spiritual bodies.
The energy of grief can be like cancer and invade every fiber of your being. It can destroy your relationships, finances, will, and break your spirit. But, what it can’t do is choose for you. You always have a choice.
In this episode, I talk about the energy of grief and I ask you to challenge the long-held beliefs that may be the very thing that could be keeping you emotionally stuck.
Life is so much harder when you go it alone. But, you don’t have to and this episode also shares an idea to explore if a deeper connection, not only to others but also yourself, is what you long to feel.
Care to explore your emotional energy more deeply? Check out my contact info below to look into Reiki Energy Healing. What do you have to lose?
RESOURCES:
Thank you for tuning in to this week’s episode of grieving voices. This is Episode 81: Takeaways and Reflections, “The Energy of Grief”, where I’ll be talking about episode 79 with Corchele Smith, and Episode 80 with David Richman.
Be Open to Healing
I am titling this one, “The Energy of Grief”, because it came up during my conversation with Corchele. She had lost her infant, full-term baby. And tragically, it could have been prevented. I suggest listening to that if you’ve experienced child loss at full term, or any infant loss for that matter, miscarriage or what have you. Because we get into a lot about her faith and how she navigated that loss, which took her several years to find her way out. And she said you can’t get out of those low vibrational feelings by yourself. You have to have something to connect to, to really pull yourself out. And I often find with Grievers and even myself, we often find our purpose through our pain. Or we look for a purpose in our pain. And if we have a really difficult time finding it, maybe we didn’t really know what our purpose was before our loss occurred. We look to create meaning or find meaning within that pain, and Corchele found herself creating meaning from that loss of her daughter by reflecting on what it was that served her the most and helped her to really confront the pain of that loss and make it through the difficult days.
And that’s where her, organization, Because of Breklyn, was born in creating teddy bears for grieving mothers or fathers who find themselves leaving with empty arms from the hospital. One of the things that Corchele shared that helped her in her grief was a medium reading. And I know everyone has their own beliefs around mediums. But I think if a skillful medium can help you connect to the energy and the consciousness of your loved one, they can bring messages to you that may be very healing. And, of course, Corchele did find healing in that session with the medium. And also, in Reiki and energy healing, so much so that she became a Reiki Master. And so, I think it’s being open to other avenues or other means of healing that you just may not have considered before. And if you take anything from this episode, it’s to maybe challenge those beliefs and ask yourself, what do I have to lose? If it doesn’t help you or you don’t feel like you connect to that source of healing, then that’s okay. But you tried, right? And I think that’s a part of grief that so many misses. That you just sit and wallow in the tears, and there’s a time for that. Don’t get me wrong, there is an absolute time for that. But if you truly want to feel better and you do want to heal those parts of you that just feel so stuck emotionally. It’s healthy to consider all of your options and maybe try a few. And you never know it might end up changing your life. Reiki changed Corchele’s life for the better. The medium experience changed her life for the better. I can personally attest to the Grief Recovery method, it changed my life for the better, as did Reiki. Several different healing modalities that I’ve experienced myself, sound healing, chakra healing. There’s so many different means of creative expression for healing that people bring to the world to be of service. And I think in grief, it does require a level of openness, to be able to receive that healing. But again, you have to be ready to receive. If you’re not, it’s not going to do harm. But it can be an experience that truly does change your life.
Sometimes, what changes your life is your own awareness around your own energy and waking up and asking yourself a better question. And that is exactly what happened with my guests, David Richmond in Episode 80, he asked himself, “Who do you want to be? Who do I want to be?” And the answer to that was not who he was living up to be in his life. I think so many of us have a measuring stick of our lives and where we would hope to be a year from now. And that year comes and passes, and we look back and wish would have done this, that or the other thing. And those feelings create grief in our lives, feelings of regret, and remorse. It could even impact our self – confidence and all areas of our lives. And so, when we are reactive to life, rather than intentional, we put ourselves in risk of grief, of self sabotage. And so many of us find ourselves doing things because we have to. And we always think so often that the best days are behind us. And I’ve been there. I, too, have been there.
Deeper Conversations leads to Deeper Connections
And that’s what I loved so much about my conversation with David. He was really opened to sharing tips and things that he learned to navigate those grief experiences. So that, many of us often don’t talk about in our day-to-day conversations. We tend to have these surface-level-conversations with people that we’ve known for years. But if we just asked each other, maybe some deeper questions we would learn, we would get deeper answers from people and really get a better understanding of those with whom we keep company. And I think too, by having those conversations with each other, it kind of diffuses those grief-causing-feelings that we may have about our own lives. David had said, keep moving, because if you don’t keep moving, you get caught up in the story. And that, I think in conversation if we apply that not just to the physical aspect of our lives, but also the emotional and the communicative part of who we are. The parts of us that really desire connection with people, if we can keep those relationships moving in. How do we do that? well with deeper connection, and How do we do that? well, with deeper questions. I think it dispels these myths that we have about ourselves, these feelings that we take in as truth for ourselves. But when others are in our company, they know they’re not true. But us personally, we can’t see the label from inside the jar. And so, it’s beneficial to have these deep conversations with others because you see yourself. What you share is reflected back to you by that other person with whom you’re having this deep conversation with. And I think that’s what so many of us are craving now, its deeper conversation and deeper connection. But we can’t get there if we just maintain this surface-level stuff. If we don’t really dig into the energy of grief with each other. I think too, that’s why people are so afraid to ask someone if they’re struggling. Like just coming out and ask, “have you thought about harming yourself?” because the answer to that can be very terrifying for the person asking because what are you going to do? And I would suggest that you do have a plan, if you’re going to ask someone that question, but even just asking that question can feel like such a relief to that person, because you’re not going to put anything in their head that they already haven’t thought about by asking that question. And in fact, like I said, I feel like it would disarm it, kind of help them, bring the armor down, and maybe connect more deeply with you, the person leaning in, and having the conversation that you may be afraid to have. And there is an aspect of that, that requires you to be vulnerable, of course. But by being vulnerable, first, you give the other permission to do the same.
Connect with Someone that Believes in You
And so, there were some tips that David had given during our conversation. And I do highly recommend you listen to those one of my favorites. But one thing he said was accountability, it’s like a scoreboard. I read some time ago, there are people who feel more accountable to themselves, and then there are people who feel more accountable to others. Actually, I think that might have been during David’s episode. So again, I suggest you listen to that. So, you can hear that bit of it. But find someone who believes in you. That’s another one of his tips. You know, it’s the positive emotion that lingers. And I think if we have those people around us that help keep us accountable, that aren’t afraid to ask the deeper questions, that believe in you. That is what people can latch on to, who may be struggling, that might give them hope. Really, it’s about balance in the energy because if we have so much of this low-vibrational stuff going up going on inside of us, it creates physical symptoms, it creates manifests as emotional outbursts. And you know, we might revert to behaviors or look to something else to make us feel better, when really maybe a deep connection with someone would be the antidote for that.
P.S. So, I hope you found something useful in today’s episode, something that you can maybe implement in your life listening to David’s episode number 80, and 79 with Corchele. And take something from what they share and something from this episode. Maybe walk away today and ask someone a deep question and give them your time and attention to hear the deep answer. That’s for today’s episode, please reach out to me on social media. Find me on Instagram at theunleashedheart, send me an email [email protected] if you do share with me what your experiences are, I would love to hear it. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections | Be Open to Receiving
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
What is grief?
Grief is the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations.
Grief is anything we wish would be different, better, or more.
And, no one has to die for you to grieve.
Also, because there are more than 40+ losses, it’s a safe bet that you and every person you meet is or has experienced grief.
We are taught how to acquire things (or people). We’re not taught what to do when we lose them. Today’s episode is about the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations, and how our individual beliefs play a role in how we respond to grief.
Today’s episode is also about seeking the truth and the evidence of what we don’t fully understand, and how our findings can lead us to the most impactful life lessons.
Be open to receiving the message in today’s podcast and, I encourage you to explore, more deeply with self-love and compassion, whatever it brings up for you.
RESOURCES:
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of grieving voices. Today is the takeaways and reflections episode, and I’ll be talking about episode 76 with Katie Carroll, the best things in life aren’t planned and episode 77 with Bob Ginsberg a quest for truth. I’d like to start with episode 76 with Katie Carroll, I titled it “The Best Things in Life Aren’t Planned”. But I would also say that the worst things in life aren’t planned either. And that’s been my experience in my personal life, as of late and I talked about it in the November 30th takeaways and reflections episode, grief shared his grief diminished.
Disappointments Gives Us an Opportunity to Grow
And what I shared was, my son had had a weight bench pressing accident. Well, it’s been five weeks now as of today recording this. And he just got out of the hospital a couple days ago. I guess basically, out of the five last five weekends, he’s been in the hospital, a portion of four of them. So, we’re hoping to be done with hospitals for a little while. He seems to be doing really well. We won’t know for a couple more weeks if he will need surgery or not. But in the meantime, we’re hoping for an uneventful time in between. And just a really nice time with family, which, after the month, little over a month that we’ve had. I could go for some more boring, to be honest. So, I’m hoping that the next few weeks are just incredibly boring.
But you know, when we talk about plans, and we want to make plans. That’s one of the things that Katie mentioned in her episode, she said, “If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.”. And that’s one of the things that I’ve really had to learn myself as of late last, as I shared because I’ve had to basically plan week by week, essentially, even sometimes day by day. Everything with my business had kind of gone on the backburner. Although, I have maintained this podcast, but with the help of my VA have also maintained some sort of presence on social media. I’m not active on it, but I’m still getting content produced and my newsletters still going out. But I’ve stepped away from the blog for a little while, which I’m thankful for, that little break from that. But we don’t know or learn how to acquire things, maybe even people, we’re not taught what to do when we lose those things, or we lose those people. And I think that’s a part of plans too, is that we’re not taught how to deal when our plans don’t go as we hoped, or the hopes and dreams that we have for our lives if they don’t work out. We’re not taught how to deal with those things. We’re not taught how to process those emotions that come with the loss of those experiences.
And for Katie, she’d always felt in her heart that she’d be a mother. As a child, she loved pretending that she was a mom, and always aspired to be a mom. And when she thought about her future, she saw herself as a mother. And when she found herself single at 42, she still had this hope that it would possibly happen. And she did meet somebody, but she had equated not ever getting married to not ever having children with an unworthy life. And I’m incredibly sad that we sometimes put so much emphasis or weight on an identity that society places on us or that because of the societal pressures we place on ourselves. And just like she said, everybody would say, your time will come when she was always a bridesmaid never a bride. I think that there is a lot of growth that she experienced because of these constant disappointments. I think that she experienced, when she realized with every relationship that didn’t work out the way she had hoped.
That it really just brought her closer to who she truly knew who she was. And that she was a caring, loving individual that had so much love to give. And she realized this, “that I can give all my nephews, all of the love”, like the nieces and nephews in her life, she can give them all the love that she has in her heart. And in the work as a pediatric nurse, she can give the children she cares for, all of the love in her heart. And my son was several times now he’s been on the pediatric floor in the hospital, and the nurses just have an unbelievable sense of care and are so good to my son. And I just had so much appreciation for nurses. They genuinely seem to love and enjoy working with kids and in doing the job that they’re doing. But I can see too where burnout can be a real have a real impact on on that career.
But I just want to give a shout out if you’re a nurse, and to Katie, if you’re listening to this, thank you for being a nurse, thank you for giving your love and care to the rest of society and to someone else’s children, as if they were your own. So that’s my gratitude that I have today. And I wish all you nurses out there I very, very merry Christmas, as this will be airing the week of Christmas.
Expectations are Planned Disappointments
But I do encourage you to listen to Katie’s episode, because I think even if you don’t identify as a single person, or someone who’s looking for love. I think that there is a lot to her story. In these expectations we place on ourselves or on our lives. And often there’s disappointment that comes with that. We say in Grief Recovery that expectations are planned disappointments. At least I think that’s where I first heard that, but it’s very true. We don’t necessarily learn the tools and aren’t equipped with the tools to deal with these expectations that ultimately become disappointments. I do hope you listen to episode 76 with Katie Carol, that best things in life aren’t planned. And I believe that you will maybe hear a little bit of your own story in what she has to share. And if you don’t, well then, I think you’ll have a little bit more compassion for those who may not have children. And we don’t know the story behind everyone’s eyes. We just never know what people are struggling with and, you know, we see the world through the lens of our own personal experience. And so maybe just express and have a little compassion for those that may not have children and don’t make assumptions and don’t make judgments. And we just don’t know the story behind people’s lives. So, listen to that.
Grief Changes Shape, But it Never Ends
And then also episode 77 With Bob Ginsburg a quest for truth. We talked about looking for the evidence of the afterlife and how he was on a quest for that truth. After the death of his daughter, what struck me about his story was how he shared that his wife actually had a premonition about something terrible that was going to happen the day that their daughter and son had been in a serious car accident that claimed their daughter’s life and landed their son in the emergency room. He did survive. But he said, you know, very often trauma and loss are a trigger for self exploration, you reevaluate everything in your life. And that’s essentially what happened to Bob and what he shared in his story. He was very materialistic, he said, he was all about the success in his business and career and his life. And they had the toys, and they took the vacations and all of those wonderful things that helped to support their lifestyle. But he said, when she passed away, none of that mattered. Absolutely, none of it mattered. He couldn’t care less, basically, is what he had said. And he really dives deep into what that exploration was like for him. He was all about the science. He wanted the science to prove that he wanted the evidence. He was looking for the evidence and the truth that his daughter was still somehow consciously here. He knew, obviously, she wasn’t in the physical form, but that there was something after death that would help him to connect and feel connected and to know that he was feeling connected. And so, we really explored what that has looked like over the years for him, and how that really shaped the work that he does today.
Even after the path passing of his wife in 2020 to cancer, he shared a perfect golden nugget of wisdom that he feels his wife, or that his wife actually did share when she on her deathbed. And just in the moment he shared, it just really got to me, in an emotional way. So, you’ll have to listen to that episode to know what I’m talking about. But it really touched me what she had shared with him on her deathbed. And I just really enjoyed learning more about the Forever Family Foundation, which is a not for profit that educates on the evidence that we are more than our physical bodies. And it wasn’t really an area that I explored until essentially going through Grief Recovery. And probably even more so after Reiki, like the spiritual aspect of energy and the afterlife. And all of those things.
Everyone Grieves Differently
I had Sirry Bernsen, she is a medium that was certified through the Forever Family Foundation or are vetted to the Forever Family Foundation. And if you want a vetted, medium, the Forever Family Foundation website is the place to go. So, check out that episode to look in the show notes to find the links for all of that, but I just really hope you listen to that episode because I think that a good medium like episode coming up Corchele Smith, we actually talk about her experience a little bit about seeing a medium, that can be very healing for some people in grief. And it’s not the end all be all. It’s not necessarily for everybody, and that’s okay. And if it’s not for you, I hope you don’t judge those that seek that for healing, because we are all on a journey that is unique to us, and that includes our grief. And we find relief, and we find solace and healing that is very individual for each of us. And so just I hope you listen with an open mind. And that’s really what I think Bob mentions that set him apart in a way that he was open minded. He really was septic in a way, but he was still open minded. He wanted the science and the evidence and he followed the evidence where it led him. He was part of the Forever Family Foundation, which was a part of the Netflix Docu series “Surviving Death”, which I’ve had Dr. Chris Kerr on who is an end of life, hospice physician, and Sirry Berndsen was also on featured on that Netflix Docu series, I think, as part of the Forever Family Foundation’s part of that.
But again, I think that we can be skeptic, but we can be open minded. And I just think that there is much that we don’t know, and we don’t understand. And if we can open our hearts to possibility, we might just be surprised by what we find. And we can often find ourselves being led to healing in ways we least expect. You don’t know what you don’t know. But also, we don’t know that we have an opportunity there if we don’t open ourselves to it. We have to be open to a new experience or a new belief or a new understanding. I think sometimes we can challenge our beliefs and be pleasantly surprised, or we can walk away feeling affirmed. But either way we’re learning right? So, I don’t think there’s any anything lost in having an open mind and an open heart. I hope you keep that in mind as you listen to that episode, and maybe perhaps, exploring the other podcast episodes that I mentioned.
But I do agree with Bob, that trauma and loss are the catalyst for self exploration, where we can really have the opportunity to, again, challenge our own beliefs, look into our own selves. And what we find is important and what matters. I’ve had my own moments as of late, just given what we’ve experienced with our son. But yeah, it’s a journey for sure. I want to leave you today with the knowing that regardless of what life throws at you, there are tools out there, there are means of support. There are people out there who are loving, who are caring, who care about you, who love you, and who are invested in helping you to become an even brighter, lighter version of who you already are. That is what my hope is and my work that I do with Grievers. That is, I believe what you will find and working with, you know, a certified medium, and it is what you might find and discover within yourself that even when things don’t go as planned, beautiful things can still find their way to you if you’re open to receive. So, maybe that is the message for today being open to receiving the dark and the light, because without the dark, we really don’t know the light. And that is where I think we dig deep and find what we’re really made of. So, digging deep and finding what we’re made of.
P.S. That’s today’s episode. Please reach out to me on social media. Find me on Instagram at theunleashedheart, send me an email [email protected] if you do share with me what your experiences are, I would love to hear it. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Cancer, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast |
David Richman | Wake Up Call
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY
What does it take to bicycle 4700 miles, with temps most often over 100 degrees and the wind against you?
David Richman did just that as part of a passion project that later became his book, Cycle of Lives, where all proceeds benefit cancer-focused charities.
However, David didn’t wake up one day and decide to make Cycle of Lives his mission. Instead, it was years in the making, following the death of his dear sister, June, due to brain cancer.
David’s sister’s diagnosis was the icing on the cake of what he was already struggling with in his life. One question he asked himself would set him on a path of personal transformation.
Listen to David’s story of transformation and what has inspired him throughout his life. Hear some of the stories that have most inspired him and some golden nuggets he’s picked up along the way.
Be sure to listen to this one all the way through! This episode is the perfect inspiration for the start of 2022!
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 00:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. today. My guest is David Richman. He is an author, public speaker, philanthropist and endurance athlete who, whose mission is to form more meaningful human connections through storytelling. In his first book, winning the middle of the pack, he discussed how to get more out of ourselves than ever imagined. With cycle of lives. David shares the interconnected stories of people overcoming trauma and delves deeply into their emotional journeys within with cancer. He continues to do Ironman triathlons and a wide range of endurance athletic events. Having recently completed a solo 4700-mile bike ride. He is married and lives in Southern Nevada and has twins who are in college. Thank you so much for being here.
David Richman 01:47
Thank you, Victoria. I’m looking forward to talking to you.
Victoria Volk 01:50
Yeah, I actually saw a little fun fact. I looked up really like where would 4700 miles, where could that get me? But from Kansas. If you flew from Kansas 4700 miles, you get to Belgium. Kansas to Belgium is 4700 miles.
David Richman 02:10
That’s a lot of miles. It also gets you from LA to San Diego, across Arizona, to Albuquerque, down to Dallas and then Austin and then back up to Houston. Through the panhandle of Florida down to Tampa, over to Orlando. And then up to New York City. That’s 4700 miles.
Victoria Volk 02:40
Wow. Yeah. Wow. I’ve seen bikers like coming through. I’m in North Dakota, they come through and it’s like 85 degrees and they’re biking up going on like I just about anybody who can first of all, I think it’s hard enough running but biking up a hill? I don’t know.
David Richman 03:01
Yeah, it was tough in you know, the first 12 days. The high was never below 100. It was a rough start.
Victoria Volk 03:13
How do you do it? I mean, I know we’ll get there like in this conversation, but like just the mental fortitude that that takes?
David Richman 03:21
Yeah, that one. That one was tough. I think the toughest thing about the bike ride really like physically the toughest thing was, it was it was shocking how and I’m not even exaggerating, Victoria, it was shocking how no matter what direction I went, the wind was in my face. It was it was maddening. I had one day, one day outside of Albuquerque. So, from Albuquerque to wherever I went that day where the wind was behind me. And it was my shortest day by four hours on the bike in the entire 45 days. I don’t think I ever had a day where the wind wasn’t in my face. It was maddening. Maddening.
Victoria Volk 04:02
What an incredible feat. I mean, you could probably just did you document that journey?
David Richman 04:07
So I did. So, the book is written first person from each of the 15 participants. So, I I interviewed them got their stories, and I wrote their story. First Person has them. Okay, or third person has them. But still it was there was their perspective. In between each of those stories is a short little narrative that talks about the bike ride my feelings about the person that whose story just ended or the person whose story was coming. And then you know, some of the people I met along the way and my own dealing with the grief of losing my sister to cancer. So, it’s a it’s a narrative that kind of binds those stories together.
Victoria Volk 04:55
How did this come to fruition? This mission to 4700-mile bike ride?
David Richman 05:02
Well, so the bike ride was kind of a little bit of an afterthought. What I what I wanted to do was, so my sister had been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. Okay, so she had a young family, job, friends, the whole thing, very vibrant woman, you know, living her fullest life. And she was faced with this reality. And her and I talked about things a lot, maybe not every aspect of of what was going to happen, but pretty much we talked a lot. And I did a Relay for Life near the end of her actually, a couple of days after she passed away, I did a Relay for Life, which is a 24 hour, you know, then I did the whole 24 hours. And I noticed that that people did not openly communicate about the emotional side of their trauma. They were able to talk about like, the tasks, when am I gonna get my next PET scan? How do I navigate work? What’s the best way to reduce stress? What’s about the tasks around their their cancer, very, a lot of opinions very open to talk about what when it came to the emotions, they just weren’t. And that kind of set a seed for me. I was kind of just shocked by that. And then every year her name was June, every year I did a for June in June, in terms of it, where I’d raised money for the cancer center that took care of her. And I noticed that same recurring theme, where people just weren’t able to talk about the emotional side of it. And I thought, hmm, what if I got a group of really diverse people who had varying bouts with cancer, or came from the perspective of a caregiver or a doctor or survivor, loved one, whatever. And they were young, all different types of cancer, different emotional experiences, different sets of childhood traumas, all these wild lead diverse factors. I figured, if I covered as much of the general population as possible, then maybe we could start to understand how to start those conversations, like how like, what are people going through? What have they gone through? And how can we better relate to them so that we can talk about these things that people don’t talk about the emotional side of it? So a long answer to your question, but how did the bike ride happened was I thought if we’re connected by story, which I think we are, right, you know, you’re you’re telling stories all the time, people that you have honored telling stories were connected by stories, and were connected by emotions, what better way to connect these things than to get on a bike and go visit the people that I had talked to for a couple of years, but never had never met most of them. And so I thought it would be a good experience to connect that and along the way, I’m trying to see whether or not this thought of people are not equipped to talk about the emotional side of trauma and grief and other things. And every single day Victoria, I that that was reinforced that, you know that this was, even if it doesn’t change the world, maybe it’ll equip a few people to better understand how to start these hard conversations about the emotional side.
Victoria Volk 08:27
That’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful concept. I love the store. I love it. Because obviously what I do is try to pull out the emotion of people’s experiences. And as a grief recovery specialist, I can tell you it is really difficult to to help people to see that going there is healing. It really is.
David Richman 08:52
It totally is. And you know, it’s understandable why people don’t talk like I’ve learned that through this journey. Because they don’t want to say something stupid, they don’t want to guilt others they don’t want to, like, my life is great. I’m talking about your life, which sucks, and I don’t want to make you feel bad. I don’t want to feel guilty about how good I feel and how great things are for me. Right? Or people they don’t want sympathy. I mean, there’s a lot of reasons why you kind of clam up about these things. But I mean, honestly, it’s just shocking to me how many people I mean, it’s endless, endless people said to me, oh my gosh, I wish I knew what to say or you know I I never really talked to my daughter about this because of XYZ reason. I sure wish I knew how or I sure knew wish where I could start doing that. And and that’s what I think these stories do is they shed light on this kind of block that we have about talking about this or dealing even dealing with the emotional side of it. And I think, you know, like, for example, like I just recently just got a note from, from a doctor who retired, forget what kind of oncologist oncologist he was. But he said, When I read your book, the first thing I did was go read it and horror, thinking, oh my gosh, I was not a good enough doctor, I didn’t know my patients the way I should have. He says, My let go that thought I read it the second time thinking about how interesting these people were. And I thought to myself, how cool is that? You know, I’ve gotten plenty of notes from people saying how now I understand, or I better understand or this makes me be able to talk to so and so. And jeez, if I’ve only affected if the few people that have sent me these kinds of notes, how great is that?
Victoria Volk 10:50
Yeah. Can you give an example from your book? One of the story?
David Richman 10:54
Yes, I’ll give you one of my favorite examples. So, I think that we can all put ourselves in the position of how difficult it might be as a patient. But how about how difficult it may be as an oncologist to deal with patients. And so I interviewed a woman who was absolutely spectacular, she’d been a oncologist specializing in female and male breast cancer for nearly 40 years at NYU. And wow, what a great story she had. And the reason that she was open to talking to me was because she had come to realization, having lived a long, successful life, and having given so much to the community, and we’re so passionate about wellness and survivorship. Had a successful marriage had raised a daughter who’s grown up and gone off to her own career, she had realized that when she started out as an oncologist, Victoria, she kind of was just super focused on treatment, and care and do things this way, or whatever. And if people didn’t really bond with her, listen to her, she just kind of moved on to the next patients. But after 40 years, she realized she was really good at what she did. And it and if people weren’t willing to take her medical advice, she wasn’t willing to, to help them. Because she knew that she was a very good doctor. And she knew that which that her regimen of, of of care, could enhance their lives, perhaps prevent acceleration of their cancer, maybe even save their life. And she knew if they didn’t listen to her, what they might potentially missed out on because she was at a point in her life where she was grateful for so much. And so her dilemma was, how do I walk out of one patient room where somebody wants to not take my advice, and I know if they take my advice, it will help them. And if they don’t take my advice, it could potentially be disastrous? How do I walk out of that room and into the next room, where there’s a woman with two little kids on our labs, and I’ve got to tell her that she’s gonna die. Right, that there’s nothing I can do for her the other woman, I could have done something she won’t listen to me this woman, and just how emotionally difficult that was. And then we talked about that issue, around the backdrop of not only being a woman oncologist at a time when women are not becoming doctors, it searches that oncologist and the discrimination that she faced and how she overcame that. But also the fact that, you know, you look at a doctor and think everything’s wonderful. But we find out that when she was 12, she came home one day, and her dad just never came home. Like he abandoned the family. And how she was able to go through her life and fix that part of her, or at least reconcile that part of her enough to live a life where she could be loved and where she could love somebody else without this fear of abandonment. And so I thought to myself, after talking to her, You know what, maybe she is much more in tune with being a good provider. But maybe perhaps when somebody comes in and a doctor is not as friendly or not as open or is maybe a little more distant, maybe they’re going through their own stuff. Maybe when the doctor comes in, if we could take one second and ask how are you doing? Maybe that doctor just walked out of a room where somebody wouldn’t listen to them. And they’re so upset about the fact that that they want to help this person and they won’t take it. Then they walk into our room. Carrying that into here, maybe maybe they just need a minute of attention. So those are the kinds of things stories that I think maybe will, will open up people’s minds to think about how we might better communicate with those around us.
Victoria Volk 15:08
Thank you for sharing that, because, to be honest, I had never considered that side of it. Thinking of what that might be like for an oncologist. Right? And I’ve thought about certain different careers, you know, social workers, you know, going into homes where they have to take the children away, or you know, things like that. But I’ve never thought of the ecologist. And even just me with this podcast, I’m sure people that you’ve talked to, it’s like, wow, that sounds depressing. Like, the work. You know, the work that I’m doing in grief, recovering stuff, like people will say, Well, that sounds really depressing, right? But I imagined burn ecologist it really is, but it can also be equally rewarding too.
David Richman 15:57
Yeah, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t imagine I could, before I did this project, I couldn’t imagine I didn’t even let it enter my realm. Like, how in the world? Could somebody be an oncologist? How could somebody deal with this kind of heaviness? I just didn’t even let it into my realm. And then when I did let it in my realm, I’m just like, God, there’s no way I could ever do that. Are you kidding me? To give bad news to receive, you know, to to watch what I mean, God, it takes a special person to be able to do that. And so I think that I have maybe just another level of respect, admiration, empathy, for people that that deal with this heavy, heavy stuff. There’s another one up, gosh, Jen, she was me her story is absolutely amazing. Like, is one of the most heart warming, but also tragic situations ever. She watched her dad die of cancer when she was six years old. And I’m going to condense the story really short, she grew up to be this super happy, lighthearted, wonderful, joyful, life is great kind of person. It’s because her mom and her sister in the end kind of really huddled into this loss and to the closeness and just, she just lived in a very safe loving environment, even though she lost her, her dad. And her dad called her nurse Jen, because during hospice, she would bring him like a soda or something, or whatever. And she kind of remember that she ends up going to nursing school. And the last thing she would ever do was was it would end up in an oncology unit, especially a pediatric oncology unit. But she’s got to do a rotation. And she does a rotation, she comes home, bawling her eyes out, calls her mom. And it’s like, I just did the pediatric oncology rotation, and a mom goes, it’ll be okay. And Jen goes, how would I ever not do that? Like I have to, because that’s what I have to do. So she does that long, long story, again, to the question of how she deals with the pain of it is because every once in a while I go home, and I have a cat day, I just pet my cat. Because if I let myself think about all of the heaviness, and all of the craziness that I deal with, it would really really bring me down, she goes, I just sometimes just need to check out and pet my cat. Because otherwise, it’s just too heavy. And I just go golly, I couldn’t handle one day of that she’s doing it for her whole life, she’s planning on doing it for her whole life. Like it just takes a special kind of person. So, I think that we oftentimes want to just go I don’t know how you could go through that as a person with cancer or dealing with some other type of trauma. But the people like you, the professionals that give care and attention to the people that are going through these things, wow, man, that is another level.
Victoria Volk 18:56
To that point, kind of a commercial anyway, in my local commercial in our state, where they talk about the mental health of doctors and nurses and you know, stuff like that because as you said, like they’re every day they’re in this environment of great loss and sadness and, and there’s great stories of overcoming to but to not be able to bring that home and but they’re just like the rest of us just as equally have the potential to fall victim to addiction and alcohol use and you know, so I can’t recall the statistic right now, but it was actually quite high of how many doctors commit suicide. So just wanted to support that point you made and that the emotional health and well being of physicians and caregivers and caretakers. I actually just had a thought I was just pulling weeds in my garden last night and I just thought you know sometimes the Helper needs help too.
David Richman 20:03
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s really tough. So, so not only the caregiver professional, but also the survivor, the one going through the cancer, just what is their experience. And so, what I, what I, what I did Victoria, as I said, we all kind of have the same emotional responses to trauma, maybe we don’t explore those emotions, but we have the same emotional experience, right? Like, for example, if you were stuck in a cave, and a big black bear came in to attack you, you would be fearful. And there’s not anybody that wouldn’t be fearful. Now, if we were to survive, that, we might, or might not be able to talk about it, or reconcile it, or share it with others or whatever. But we would have all experienced that fear. So what I tried to do was to say, with each story, point A is when they encounter cancer, you know, Jenna’s the six year old, Dr. Meyers, as a 14 year old or however old, she was 13 years old, eighth grade trip to the hospital, where she was just like, Oh, my God, I’m going to become a doctor. So point A is then or is patient when you’re diagnosed with cancer? Point B is today? How did the emotional journey from point A to point B happen? Or not happen? What you know, how were you able to or not able to deal with the emotional side in relation to the traumas that happen prior to point A, so an example would be Patricia story. And Patricia stories, her cancer journey is just ridiculous to trap it try to wrap your brain around. But she had five different cancers over 35-year period. Could you imagine five different cancers. So basically, she was at the point where she was just like, Whatever, whatever it is, just cut it out. There was really nothing left to cut out and also took care of why she was going through chemo took care of her dad who was dying of prostate, I believe prostate cancer, I don’t remember which one, but just in working in survivorship community, and the whole thing like her whole life has been fixated on dealing with her cancer, or helping others better navigate their own cancer journeys. But her story, really Victoria is about that, in relation to the four years that she was basically kept prisoner in a very, very abusive, mentally, physically and emotionally abusive relationship. She gets out of that, and you go, well, how could anybody ever survive that, let alone be open to finding love? And trusting somebody, let alone be able to now start a fight for 30 for the upcoming 35 years of dealing with cancer. And so I think what we can take from that is how strong you could be is just what did you already survive? Right? Because I first thing that I think of, and I think it’s pretty normal to think and most people would think of five times cancer for 35 years, there’s no way I could have dealt with that. Doing no way possible. And that’s where people go like, I can’t even imagine like, how who does that who survives 35 years of five different kinds of cancers. And then, if you lit put it into perspective of look at what you survived before that, who hasn’t survived trauma, who hasn’t overcome difficulty, maybe not to that extent. But yeah, maybe you gathered the tools that you need, and you’ve drawn them to deal with whatever you need to deal with. And so when she says in this has kind of given away the punch line, but when she says that, you know, I might not gotten very far out of bed. But every single day, my goal was to get about a bed, and I did even if I only took one step. But my goal was to get out of bed every day that I can understand how important that is. And that was one thing that she was able to draw on to keep herself going every single day. And I go, Well, if somebody said that to me originally, like, I go, how did you deal with your cancer and the guy just got out of bed every day. It wouldn’t make sense to me sound little trite. But in relation to her story, and what she overcame and what it takes to get out of bed every single day, to try it out with optimism and strength, go about your day and fight whatever comes to you. Now I get it. You know, so I think I can draw from that. Maybe I can understand it a little bit.
Victoria Volk 24:35
Can you tell us about June and what she taught you?
David Richman 24:38
So, I could tell you that I was always a little jealous of June in one sense that she we both had kind of the same traumatic childhood, right. And we both had the same kind of adversities. But oh my gosh, she found herself her husband has kids had a great career, I had all these friends, and she was so happy. And so, like lighthearted. And meanwhile, I was all rooting and heavy, hard to overcome with all this nonsense. I was always kind of like, Man, she’s living her life, she’s so happy. So one of the things about him that I remember is that she was just a happy person. And, and that’s, that’s really hard. But I don’t find that many like truly grounded, like, present, just happy people. And the fact that she had that for so many years is a real neat thing to remember about her, you know? And I thought, so. So that’s what I remember about her that what does she teach me kind of a lot, you know more about life, I’ve learned from keeping her present, right after she died keeping her present by embarking on these projects, and, you know, forcing myself to kind of think about her as I’m biking across the country, these kinds of things, that you know, that she’s had a really profound effect on my life, if nothing other than the person that holds up a mirror that allows me to, you know, kind of look at myself and examine, you know, and she might be that person that holds up that mirror. And if that’s the only thing that she’s continuing to do, how grateful Am I that she’s doing that? So I think that, you know, what I’ve learned from this experience, whether she’s taught me that, or directly or indirectly, is that examination and dealing with these things, and coming to terms with them, or attempting to come to terms with these difficult things, is a needed aspect of life. Like, we can’t just pack everything in a box in our brains and let it collect dust and think that it’s like it’s done. I think that we got to unpack all these boxes examine at all, and continue stronger, more enlightened, more grounded, more centered, more connected to the people around us. And I think she’s helped me do that.
Victoria Volk 27:10
So I was, you had mentioned that, at one point, you were kind of downtrodden and kind of woe is me, so to speak. Sure. So, was her diagnosis kind of what pulled you out of that? And then started this mission that you have now?
David Richman 27:27
Yeah, it kinda is a great question. And it all kind of happened, right about the same time. So I was in a very bad situation personally. And I had young twins four years old. And we had to get out of that situation. And it was I was unhealthy. I was a smoker, I was overweight, I had a ton of stress in my life, both personally and professionally. And I had to make a change. And at that same time, Jun called me and told me that she had got news about a tumor, brain tumor. And so all of that happened at the same time. And so I don’t think it was that event that made me change. But it was the series of events that happened kind of all at the same time, where I thought to myself, you know, you can, you can go through life reacting to things, or you can try to maybe for once in your life, take a hold of the things that in your life and determine your own course. And so I think that, prior to that point, I was I, I was in a very negative space, even though I had some great things happened to me, but I just, I don’t know, I just didn’t feel connected to who I am. And, and, and I felt like I wasn’t doing anything on purpose. I wasn’t doing everything because I got to do it. I was doing everything accidentally, and because I had to, but then I just kind of changed that mindset and said, No, no, no, no, you gotta, you gotta fix this stuff. And you got you gotta start thinking about, you know, the person in the mirror rather than, you know, what am I doing to make the boss happy? Or what am I doing to make the wife happier, you know, you know, doing things because I think I have to write, I got to start doing things because I get to do them. And that really, that really kind of 180y view on on on life and my perspective on things if that makes any sense.
Victoria Volk 29:32
Yeah, you began to live with intention. Yeah. what it sounds like.
David Richman 29:34
Yeah, absolutely.
Victoria Volk 29:36
So have you worked through then, like, where did you start like, because the you didn’t specifically say what you experienced in childhood, but I like to think that adulthood is childhood reenactments? And so the experiences that you had in childhood, obviously were are impacting you in adulthood, which I feel like is the absolute truth for all of us. Unless they’re addressed. How did you start? Where did you start?
David Richman 30:10
Yeah, that’s a good question. And like, I’m, I’m still in the midst, as I’m hoping everybody, I still in the midst of trying to be better, right, trying to figure it out, I always say that I have kind of everything in common with the person that thinks their best days are ahead of them. And not much in common with the person that thinks their best days are behind them. Right? I just don’t have because I feel like we’re, we got to constantly evolve, we got to constantly try better, we got to constantly learn. And, you know, sometimes I’ll fall into a pattern where guy that patterns been around for decades. And it’s caused me to act a certain way or react a certain way. And then I go, oh, you know, I could do better. And it’s like, well, if I still believe that after doing the same thing, the wrong way for 30 years, well, okay, I’ll, that’s I, I’m comfortable with that. You know, like that I could do better. So I think where it started was, I honestly, I did get my kids in the out of this bad situation. And I just said to myself, Look, dude, you’re in your 30s. I was in my late 30s, at this point. And I said, you’re overweight, you’re a smoker, you’re not healthy, you’re not happy. You’re not doing the things you want to do. I literally, Victoria stood in front of a mirror, going, who do you want to be? Like, literally, like, who do you want to be? Who do you want to be? Do you want to be this bitter kind of sarcastic kind of like, you know, like, take on the world by yourself? And just woe is me and whatever kind of person or do you want to just like, like, become something else? Who do you want to be? And the first thing I wanted to be was healthy. I said, if I’m going to be alone with my kids, I want to be around and, and, and, you know, especially in light of finding out that my sister was gonna die soon, or it might die soon from her cancer. And I thought, geez, man, I got to start becoming healthy. Well, how do you become healthy? While you stop smoking? How do you stop smoking, when you start running? Because you can’t run in Smoke certainly can’t swim in smoke. So, I’ll start swimming and run it. Right? Because that’ll stop me from smoking. And that was step one. And then okay, well, now that I’m healthy, I got to start losing weight. Because, you know, trying to run with 30, or 40, or 50 extra pounds on you is a lot harder than running without those extra pounds. And then I thought, Well, why don’t you sleep better? Why don’t you reduce stresses, once you get rid of people in your life that are bad influences? Or that you that aren’t positive friends that don’t uplift you? Why don’t you when you go to work, why don’t you start doing things? Because it’s the right thing for you to do not the right thing that you think your boss says you should do. Right? Why don’t you treat employees the way you want to be treated? Not the way you think that they want to be treated. But right. So I just started, like you said with intention, one thing after another after another after another. So it’s just it started at that point. And, and honestly, that was the beginning of a February of that year. And by March, I had identified K by July, I’d done a half Ironman, and by November, I did a full Ironman. So I said, I’m gonna take it on, and I really took it.
Victoria Volk 33:25
Wow, what year was this?
David Richman 33:28
This was so my kids were five. So that was 1998 or so.
Victoria Volk 33:36
That was when your sister was diagnosed as well?
David Richman 33:39
Wait, wait, no, I was wrong. That would be 2003. My kids are born in in in 1998. So that would have been 2003. Yeah,
Victoria Volk 33:49
That you changed your life just almost 20 years ago. And when your sister was diagnosed? Yes. Yeah.
David Richman 33:55
So that was 2003. She died in 2007. And I did events for a number of years, and then took on this project starting in about 2011 or 12. So it took me a long time to put together the book to make sure that I had the right people to just a couple years ago, do the bike ride connected all that I had to go through my editing and find it find the right publisher and go through their editing and the whole thing. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s not easy to put a project like this together. But yeah, that whole journey. In fact, I’ve been doing endurance athletics now for close to 20 years. And, you know, Mike, my kids know me as the, you know, they were five years old, six years old, when when they were running across the finish line with me, you know, and that’s all they know me as and so it’s kind of cool.
Victoria Volk 34:50
So, who inspires you today?
David Richman 34:53
Oh, wow. I think I’m more inspired not by a person, but I’m inspired by the belief that, that you can have an effect on others, even if it’s only an effect on my kids, my wife myself, you can have an effect on others. I’m inspired by that I’ll never forget, I was embarrassed one year, because I did an event to raise money for the cancer center that took care of June. And I was kind of embarrassed by the fact that I only raised a couple $1,000 That year, it wasn’t, it wasn’t that big of a deal. And I told that to the person that was coordinating the whole thing. And she goes, What are you kidding me? She goes, Do you know how many times we tell your story to donors? Do you know how many times we tell people Oh, this guy did, you know, this 87-mile run in Mexico. And it was to honor his sister. And he did this solo ride and run in Mexico, 22 and a half hours. And we we say those are the kinds of people that are dedicated to our center. And that raises us endless amounts of money. She goes, so just the fact that you let us tell your story is, is enough. And I’m just like, oh, that’s kind of cool, right? So even if even if it only affects one person, but I had no idea that they were bragging about my story, which was nothing to me. And, and it was helping them. And in these other ways, I think I’m inspired by the fact that you never know what good thing you might be doing, or what positive thing you might be doing, that might affect other people, and that they might carry on, you know, for a long time. So I think that’s what inspires me to continue to do these things is that even has a positive effect on one person, that’s good enough for me.
Victoria Volk 36:37
I agree. And for those listening who feel like, because I struggled for a very long time, like I had this innate sense that I could do more I was made for more like my potential was not being met. And I always thought, what is it going to look like? For me helping people like what does that look like? And so for anyone listening? What is something that it because you don’t have to ride 87 miles or, you know, 4700 miles to have an impact, right? So are there stories that you have people who you’ve met along the way who have done who have had equal impact, but maybe don’t think so or just for some examples for people to offer?
David Richman 37:22
Sure, you came every single day on that ride. And certainly, a ton of other times throughout this whole kind of cycle of lives journey. I’ve run into people who just like, if I talk about it, it’s as fresh as if it happened yesterday. And it’s probably something they’ve never thought of again. But it it touches me in a way where I just go, I people are remarkable. So I’ll give you two quick stories. So one is I was at the end of one of the most ridiculous days ever, like 17 hours, 156 miles, I like five flats. I was a soloists and have support that day. And I suppose on my own from morning until night, it was absolutely 17 hours on a bike, which is just, it’s just unbelievable. And this was like, day 30. So it’s like I mean, I’m, I’m not it’s like I’m not fresh. Want to start that day, right, huh? Anyway, so I get to the hotel, and the night manager is working the desk and she comes running around the corner. Because only God we were afraid you weren’t gonna make it. I go okay, because all the hotels were donated, right. And I was on a schedule. And she was I was so interested to meet you. Because my grandfather just passed away from cancer a couple of weeks ago. And he and I were so close. And I was hoping I got to meet you and I read about what you’re doing. I think it’s so great. And I’d love to make a donation. And I went oh, that’s really sweet. Right How nice. So, the only open restaurant at that time was like midnight was like a Burger King. So, I got back on my bike and went through the Burger King Drive thru. And and got myself a burger went to my room. And I get a call from this dis manager. And I go Yeah, what’s up and she goes, well, I went on your site and made a donation and it was a it was a very modest donation. Okay, very modest. And but didn’t matter to me, right? Yeah, I’m just touched that somebody would take take the time and she said I was wondering, is that a one-time donation or is that a monthly thing? Because I don’t know if I could afford that much monthly. And I went no, no, no, it was one time donation it doesn’t matter. It’s really really sweet of you. So it was just like, what I might have easily taken for granted that dollar amount. Right just ease it was such a big deal for her that she was afraid that she couldn’t afford that much monthly, but she still wanted to give I was just like oh, brings tears to my I know how sweet is that? So, another story is at the end of another really tip clip that every story starts with at the end of a difficult day. So, I did have a friend supporting me that day. And we found a restaurant that was open a little Italian restaurant, starving, and I started eating the meal. And we’re talking about the event and what I’m doing whatever and the waitress overhears it, she starts asking questions, and the owner comes over, oh, everybody in my family has been touched by cancer one way or another, bla bla, bla bla bla, appreciate what you’re doing. Love to buy you the meal. Wow, that’s pretty sweet. Because little family restaurant, it’s in the middle of Louisiana. You know, like, they’re not, you know, they’re not a chain restaurant that can afford to be comping meals all night long. So, I was really touched by that. And then at the end of the night, when we finished our meal, that’s three waitresses that we’re working on, I came over and wanted to take a picture with me, I thought is really sweet. And they handed me an envelope. And it had, again, a very modest sum of money. And I said, no, no, you don’t have to do that. They go know what you’re doing is amazing. We wanted to give you our tips for the night as a support. And I said, oh, my God, they work the entire night. Maybe second jobs, I’m guessing in Louisiana, the minimum wage is not very high. And they were so moved by this stranger they came in to give me their tips for the night so that we could, you know, continue to raise money. And I just thought, God, people are so nice. Right? Like, like, so. So, the impact that that had and how many times I’ve told those stories, those are just two of 1000 stories I could tell and have told, that just reminded me of how remarkable people are and what how a little gesture could go so far. You could go so far.
Victoria Volk 41:47
And I think too sometimes when we tell people Oh, no, no, please don’t do that. Or, you know, we are taking away their opportunity to feel joy, oh, their opportunity to give. And I, I someone, I don’t know, I had an instance or experience some time ago that really made me realize that that we have one hand forgiving and one hand for receiving and it’s just as important to be able to receive as it is to give and for people who have a hard time receiving. You know, it’s really easy to say, oh, no, no, please don’t. You know, yeah, I’ve been so important. It’s so important for the giver, though.
David Richman 42:29
Yeah, I’ve been that person my whole life, I have literally just started learning how to allow people to help me because it’s what they want to do. And I need to give them the opportunity to do what they want to do just as they give me the opportunity to do what I want to do. It’s something I’m pleased learning because I you know, I come this guy who was totally self reliant. So, then I I able to do the things that I need to do because I have to do them, right. Because I had to, well, who doesn’t? We’re all kind of that person. And then I go, no, like, I’m hosting a bunch of people. And I go, no, no, I got I got it. No, do you need help cutting? No, I got Do you need help prep? No, I got Do you need help setting up? No, Are you relaxed? I got it. me while I’m sitting there. God, I’m controlling the whole situation. I’m not giving them the opportunity to do what they want to do. Which is help. It’s a hard lesson to learn. But it’s it’s an important one. And I literally Victoria as old as I am. As much as I’d been through. I’m just now understanding that, that you know what, when people offer help, it’s not because they think you can’t do it. It’s because they wanna help.
Victoria Volk 43:35
Right. We often have that story in our head like, yeah, like you just said, like, will you know, we we believe that for whatever reason, we got it, we can take care of it all or we have you know, we’ve always done that, or we have the story that they think they think I can’t do it. Well show them. You know.
David Richman 43:55
I know, yeah. If that’s our own garbage, it still is, you know what it is? It is really nice, because when I go to somebody else’s house, I feel uncomfortable if I’m not helping. And here I am making everybody feel uncomfortable, because I’m not allowing them to help.
Victoria Volk 44:10
Yeah, we go against the law of reciprocity.
David Richman 44:14
So, I’m glad we’re able to talk about this because it’s kind of keep it in the front of my mind to always let people help if they want.
Victoria Volk 44:21
Yeah. So, what is one tip that you’ve, and I’m sure you have many but something that really sticks out to you that you’ve heard through other people’s stories, a tip that you would give other hurting hearts.
David Richman 44:37
Okay, well, I’m gonna give it to you because you’re such a good interviewer. But I never give this one away because it gives away the ending of the book, but I’m going to tell you to tell you because it’s such a great question and and I know that not everybody has time to read books and whatever, but it’s a lesson that I learned and came to my Consciousness literally at the very end of my bike ride. So, you know, I set out on this whole thing to start to heart conversations and better equip people to understand what they’ve gone through and all this other stuff. So I’m at the end of the ride, I’m literally like, on the other side of the George Washington Bridge, trying to figure out how to get into and, and navigate to the right place in Central Park. I don’t know where to go. And I see these two cyclists and they’re talking and I wait for them to finish. And I and I talked to one of them, and I say, hey, how do I get over the bridge? And where do I go? Where? Where do I turn what I do? So she gave me directions. And then she noticed on my jersey, that I had a stupid cancer logo, one of those charities that cyclists project supports. And by the way, all the proceeds from the book, go to support the cancer focus charities that were picked by the book participants. And she goes, Oh, my gosh, are you doing a ride? And I go, Yeah, she was would you ride from and I said, Oh, I came from Manhattan Beach. She was from Manhattan, like downtown Manhattan. I go, No, Manhattan Beach, California. She was like, what? And so we started talking for a minute she was Oh my god. It’s because I’m a cyclist. Because my dad. So that’s kind of cool. And because yeah, I died four years ago from cancer. And the only thing he really wanted to do was to ride his bike, and I go, Oh, my gosh, I go, what was he like? And she told me a couple of stories. And then she said, Oh, my God, you want to hear a story about his funeral. And so she told me this crazy story about his funeral. And I’m just like, oh, my gosh. And I said, Well, you know, what do you think about when you’re when you’re writing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so we have like this, I don’t know, seven, eight minute conversation. And I went my way, and she went her way will never talk to me or see each other ever pass will never cross again. And as I’m biking across the bridge, I’m thinking to myself, when I started this journey, if somebody would have told me, other father died of cancer four years ago, I would have went, Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry to hear that. Oh, I’m sorry. And I would have uncomfortably exited the conversation? And what about my wife? But now, I know that that was an invitation for me to ask, Oh, we close? How do you feel about it? Wow, it’s been four years, you know, how does that affect you? Or Wow, tell me about him, or whatever. And it had this great. You know, uplifting, wonderful, even if it was, it ends up being a heavy conversation, which sometimes it does. But it’s this, this nother level of connection where somebody says, You know what, even if it was a total stranger, they heard me or for me, I’m the total stranger who somebody’s interested to tell a couple of these very intimate stories to, and the way that, so it was a little practical joke. He loved. He loved cycling so much. And everybody used to make fun of the fact that he had this one jersey, that had all these little ice cream cones all over it, this one little bike jersey. So he said to his daughter, hey, you know, when you do the viewing, put me in my little ice cream cone, Jersey. And he thought that would put a smile on everybody’s face. And I thought to myself, how sweet is that? If I’d never asked her that story, I would have never, if I never asked her about her dad, I would have never got the story. And this was whatever, three, four years ago. I don’t think it’s ever left me the vision of a guy lying in his coffin wearing a ice cream cone cycling jersey just to put a smile on people’s faces. How wonderful is that? And so, very long answer to your question of what do you learn? That’s something to learn. It’s just lean in, like have the conversation don’t don’t be afraid to say something stupid. Right? And oftentimes, that question I’ll follow up with is where you close to them? Because might be a stupid question. Like, of course I was was my dad, you idiot. But most nobody’s gonna say that. You’re either gonna say no, I wish I was closer, or they’re gonna say yeah, actually, I was. And Baba, and I’ll be a prompt to continue to have you have a little bit of a connection to them. So again, sorry for the long answer. But But I think it’s what I’ve learned is that leaning in that asking a question that being able to be vulnerable, allow them to be vulnerable, but it’s safe in a safe place that you really care. That’s what I’ve learned is that’s that’s, you know, there’s that’s where some beauty lies and all of this nonsense.
Victoria Volk 49:40
I completely picked up on that right away. You asked her, you asked her about him, and I think it’s really giving people that permission to share because sometimes people feel like, especially as Grievers. They don’t want to, you know, bring the mood down or make someone else you know, we’re, you know, I could go into a lot of stuff with Christopher Recovery and everything I’ve learned, but it’s really about permission. I think for a lot of Grievers.
David Richman 50:06
What you said is about us being, you know, would you say grown up kids or whatever?
Victoria Volk 50:14
Well, I think it’s being curious.
David Richman 50:15
Yeah. But the earlier when you said we’re just like, grown up, kids are something.
Victoria Volk 50:19
Oh, yeah. Adulthood is childhood reenactments.
David Richman 50:23
Yeah. And what are kids want? They just want to be safe. And so, if you’re safe, if you’re given permission, and somebody you know that somebody is asking a question, because they care. Yeah, then Be safe, be free to give the answer and allow them to care. It’s it’s a weird dynamic, because I it’s totally understandable what you just said, you don’t want to bring people down. You don’t want to make them feel guilty. You don’t want to. But you know what, they gave me permission to talk talk. And so I what I learned is to lean in more and to talk and ask questions, and to give people permission to talk about whatever they’re going through.
Victoria Volk 51:04
Yeah, it’s my mission too.
David Richman 51:07
Nice. Well, that’s why we’re aligned.
Victoria Volk 51:09
Yeah. So, what are ways that others have supported you that you have found to be helpful as you transformed your life?
David Richman 51:19
Oh, my gosh, there, there is endless people, right. So, people have taught me how to be a better athlete. Right there people taught me how to how to have work life balance. I met, I met my wife, who has been unbelievably supportive of the things that I want to do. So to find somebody that believes in you is really amazing, right? It’s really amazing. Maybe she came along, when, when I would have allowed somebody to believe in me, because maybe I believe in myself a little bit more. But, um, she’s been great help. My kids have been a wonderful help, because they are very close to them. They’re pretty talkative. And we’re, you know, we’re pretty open about the effect that we’ve had on each other, and, you know, life has had on us and that kind of stuff. So I think that I mean, there’s just been endless people and endless circumstances that have helped me. And I think that probably does boil down to that. Like what you said a while ago, living with intention. I think it’s like, living on purpose, you know, like, like really taking charge of what you want to do and who you want to be. And being okay with that, you know, every once a while guy used to think it was so stupid. Well, I wouldn’t tell anybody I’m going to go running. Because I was an overweight smoker. What do I have any business doing range? I would hide? I would just do it on one. Tell me, buddy. Right? Because I was embarrassed well, from living on purpose. I don’t care what anybody else thinks only matters what I think, right? If I’m a runner, I’m gonna go for a run, I’m gonna tell people, I’m gonna sign up for a marathon. I’m gonna tell you why not living like living on purpose, what I care what anybody else thinks only matters what I think. So I think that fortunately, surrounding myself with people who were supportive, or additive, or at least not detractors. What I was doing that that has helped me along the way, for sure.
Victoria Volk 53:34
Well, I can see why you would hide that. Because if I were in those shoes, I would feel like, well, they’re probably just gonna say that. Oh, yeah, you’ve said that before. Or people say that all the time. And then it’s like that fear of failing, not for them, but for yourself. So if I speak it out loud, you know, it’s almost like this feeling on my drink my jinx myself, you know, totally. What if, what if I don’t follow through with this? Or what if? And I’ve already told people, right, so it’s almost like you’re creating your own safety blanket of Well, I’m not. I’m kind of committed, but I’m not committed because I didn’t tell anybody else. Was that part of it, too?
David Richman 54:16
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I guess a lot of people don’t start things because they’re afraid that they’re going to fail, right. And I would do that. Whatever I took on I knew I was going to succeed, but I wouldn’t take on things I possibly could fail X. I didn’t want to fail, right. So, I never tried to quit smoking until I quit smoking. Because that right? Never tried to become an athlete until I became an athlete because I didn’t want to fail at it. It’s like a member of that. I don’t know if you remember the scene in the movie, The Matrix when they’re getting ready to fight for the first time. And Laurence Fishburne looks at calories and he says stop trying to hit me and just hit me. Right So I didn’t want to try to do something, I just wanted to do it. Right. And so when I felt like it was okay to be this person, then I would use what you just said to my benefit, I would say to somebody, I’d go, guess what I’m gonna go do, I’m gonna go do 50 mile run, right? Look, I paid this entrance fee, I’m doing a 50 mile run, and then I have to do want to fail. So, so I use it to my benefit, right? Once I knew that I would do whatever it takes to accomplish it, like I had done it, you know, throughout my life on things that I had to do, right? Had to put food on the table or whatever, or you just figure it out. But this living on purpose, and doing it with intention, and being who you want to be or becoming who you want to try and become who you want to be. Um, yeah, then I would put it out there knowing that I wasn’t gonna fail, if I was gonna do something I was gonna do it. And but be confident, right? If you want to lose weight, if you want to be a better friend, if you want to work more, if you want to start a business, you want to do whatever, do it. But but you know what, you got to get out there and do it. And you got to tell people, you’re going to do it, you got to know there’s no way you’re not going to succeed, and you got to just get out there and try to do it. And that is a different way of living your life. And it’s, it’s really wonderful because I don’t care about failing. I don’t care if I don’t finish something. I don’t care if I. But if I if I go into it with good intention, I go into it with purpose. And I do my best effort. That’s all I can ask.
Victoria Volk 56:37
Do you think one thing that keeps people from following through is lack of accountability? Do you think accountability is the missing piece for a lot of people?
David Richman 56:47
Yeah, it’s a great question. I’m part of a group right now, where we’re dealing with that issue of accountability. And yes, yes. Now, there are people that are more accountable to others than they are to themselves. Right. So they won’t tell other people because they don’t want to be held accountable. Or they won’t believe it in themselves, because then they’d have to hold themselves accountable. And so I’m the kind of person where I am probably equally motivated by not wanting to let myself down as I am by not wanting to let other people down. Right. But I like this idea of accountability, having a partner that’s that holds you accountable, or group that holds you accountable. Or just write something down that you have to look at it as your own self accountability. But accountability is kind of like a score board. It’s kinda like a scoreboard. I don’t know very many sports that are played without an accountability without the score. Right? Yeah, we’re all winners and losers, we win. Sometimes we lose sometimes right? Hack in baseball, if you’re 5050, you’re doing pretty good. So, you know, I mean, as a win loss as a team, you’re doing pretty good. So. But without a scoreboard without accountability, you don’t have anything. So yeah, I totally agree with that. Totally agree with accountability.
Victoria Volk 58:12
So, throughout your life, what has given you the most joy, and hope for the future too?
David Richman 58:20
Oh, I think the most joy has come from learning how to lean into positive relationships, I think that’s where the joy is come from. I’d say second to that is trying to be happy, allow myself to be happy, right. I always felt like for a long time before I thought, I’m gonna try to get to a point and then I’ll be happy, right? We’ve got a better job and be happy for give me more money, I’ll be happy. If I just get a little bit healthier, I’ll be happy. If I lose a little more weight, I’ll be happy or whatever the thing is that we tell ourselves like when this happens, then everything will be okay. That never happens. So, you know, whatever you’re trying to get to get to be an emotionally better place. Whenever you get to that point, you’re not an emotionally better place. It’s just it’s just delusional. So I have learned or am attempting to continue to learn how to be happier and content and joyful and present and kind of grounded no matter what’s going on. Right? So I say, being happy has given me the most happiness being joyful has given me the most joy that and positive relationships. So I said a distant third is his writing, you know, so So writing is sort of given me a lot of joy as well. So, I think those those three things.
Victoria Volk 1:00:01
That’s wonderful. Those are good. Those are great. Yeah. I could actually go into another side thing about energy, because I was, I was kind of wanting to get into that about just the energy of emotion and how it gets stuck in us and then leads to disease. Do you have any quick thoughts about that? Based on the stories that you’ve heard from people and, and how you’ve connected the dots, to? It’s not just one grieving experience. It’s always many, right?
David Richman 1:00:37
Many. I mean, we don’t know what people have gone through what we’ve gone through. Like, one of the things that was amazing about this, this journey was I talked to tons and tons of people as potential book participants. What’s amazing is no matter how incredible, the story seemed, to me, every single person said, and my story’s not that interesting, right? I’m just like, wow, you went through, you know, the suicide of a parent, escaping, you know, certain death, you know, like, all these crazy things that you experienced. And it’s like nothing, it’s like, we’re just living, you know, people are just living the lives we live. Okay. So I do believe that some people benefit from believing in the negative. Like, some people like, ah, like, give you all this attention to all this negativity. And that’s what keeps me going. And there’s some people who draw themselves to all this positivity. And that’s what keeps him going. I’m not really sure if I know if there’s a cause between negativity and stress and negative ailments, or whatever. But I will say for certain that whether each person believes it or not, Victoria, there was something unbelievably uplifting and inspiring and hopeful and positive, underlying these negative experiences, maybe at the time, there wasn’t anything positive about what they went through. But how it affected others, or where they came out on the other side, or, you know, whatever, there was some amount of positivity, and it’s the it’s the negative stuff that, that that kind of, like, makes us react and makes us feel Ouch, in the pain. It’s like, oh, man, that’s rough. But it’s a positive, uplifting, hopeful stuff that stays with us. And so I, I think that it’s okay, to have any kind of positive or negative energy help get you through a situation. But let’s, let’s try to remember that the positive, the the positivity, the uplifting part of it, the inspiring the hopeful, the forward thinking, optimistic that we can take from these things, that’s what lingers, right. That’s what lingers, so. So whatever you need to do to get through the situation, fine. But I really tried to tend to focus on the positive and the uplifting and, you know, I, I get this thing from everybody. Sorry for rambling a little bit, but everybody reads the book tells me Oh, my gosh, I thought it was going to be so depressing. And so, so rough to get through. And every one of these stories, even though sometimes they’re so rough, they’re like kind of inspirational, right? And I go, Yeah, yeah, they are. And so what we can take from these negative experiences or difficulties in life, or periods where we need to grieve or go through trauma, is that there is something on the other side, right. Let me tell you, I tell you a quick story about Terry. So Terry’s His person who, oh my God first, I was so asked my wife, I was so reticent to tell her story, because I thought I might make her sound pitiful. Okay, that’s what I thought, okay, because she had been kind of abandoned by her family. She gets cancer, on a way to hospital. Her boyfriend, her fiancee says, I Sorry, I’m out. I can’t handle this, by the way, again, somebody else pregnant, you know, you’re you’re on your own. Then she goes in support groups for her particular type of cancer. And basically, everyone in the support group dies. So she’s been in there, she gets a recurrence of that cancer has to go in for a bone marrow transplant. I a second one. And what happens during the post care? The person that’s supposed to take care of her says, I can’t handle this. I’m not strong enough. You’re on your own. Sorry. You’re on your own. Oh, my God. You want to talk about somebody? She’s just trying to figure out why am I here like Everybody abandons me, everybody dies. I’m not supposed to be living, I can’t accomplish the things I want in life. And it’s just like, Oh my God. And almost everybody tells me her story is so inspiring. Because at the end, what she tells me is, she goes, Look, I live in a world of eyes, I got a 5% chance of this, I got a 95% chance of that she was I flipped the eyes to 5050 things are gonna happen, or they’re not. And she goes, all I want to do every day is wake up to see the sun to try to figure it all out. That’s it. That’s my goal. Maybe I will maybe I won’t 5050 chance. And I thought to myself, with everything that she’s gone through, how inspiring is it? How hopeful is how amazing is it, that she’s able to have this kind of 5050 view on things are gonna happen? Or they’re not all I’m looking to do is to get up one more day to try to figure it all out? Is that what we all try to do? And with what she’s been through, she still has that kind of positive, optimistic, Hey, son comes up. It’ll help me figure it all out. How cool is that? So anyway, again, another rambling answer to your question. But it’s those type of stories that I think are just so inspirational.
Victoria Volk 1:06:24
And I think you’re speaking to what my message is, too. And what I try, and share is that there is another side of it, but you have to like move your feet, you have to take action. It’s not just gonna happen on its own. I always say to, it’s like you’re suffering already, you might as well suffer and move your feet.
David Richman 1:06:44
Oh, it’s so true. In my first black, that was, you know, not like an industry book, or last level book or something, but was a book, I talked about this time that I did this event. And it was a first endurance event I did, I was still smoking at the time, I did it at seven mile rollerblade race from Athens, Georgia, to Atlanta, Georgia, at seven miles on rollerblades, oh, my gosh, completely stupid. And I had no business doing that. And at some point about 50 miles in, I was trying to rollerblade up this hill, I was spent of every single thing I could be spent up. I was pissed off at myself that I was a smoker, I was pissed off at myself that I was there, I was so angry. I was so like, this is not you. This is just not you. And I’m sitting there absolutely dead on my feet. Right. And I’m looking at this white sweat the soul sweat salty, right? Because the sweat was so as dripping on the asphalt. And it’s creating this line, it’s going down this hill. And I said, I’m comparing perpendicular to that. So I won’t slide down the hill. And I’m looking down. And I remember having this thought of as much as you think you’re don’t belong here. As much as you’ve given 100% of everything that you have, there’s no possible way you could go forward. And then I thought to myself, Well, every step with a rollerblade. But every point that I go forward from here is a place I’ve never been is a brand new experience brand new me. Like every, if I could just take one step, I’m gonna find out something new. I’m gonna it’s gonna be a territory and never been before. That was really empowering. So to what you said, yeah, if you can just keep your feet moving, you’re gonna discover stuff, you’re gonna find out a whole new you what you’re going to encounter something that you never would have if you didn’t move your foot forward. So I totally, totally ascribe to that opinion.
Victoria Volk 1:08:53
It’s I think it’s so easy to get caught up in the story of what happened to us or, you know, that we just allow it to dictate every action therefore, you know, moving forward. And yeah, so, yeah, I think we’re on the same mission. Let’s bring hope that there’s hope.
David Richman 1:09:19
Yeah, and there is a look at this. Some people have it rougher than others. And I don’t want to say that other than it’s just, it’s just life, right? You might look at me and go, I could never have gotten through the things you’ve gotten through and I look at you and go, what are you kidding me? I could have never gotten through the things you’ve gone through, but we’re just getting through it we get through. Right? The point is, is that we have a finite amount of time, we might as well make the most of it. We might as well try to be the best we can be right what’s that famous saying? I’d rather be an optimist and wrong than a pessimist and right. Right. So, I might as well try and might as well try to take that one step forward.
Victoria Volk 1:09:58
It was not even try, right? It comes back to you just do, just do. Me. Yeah, my husband helps, my husband, he just drives me crazy. This was before my personal development and stuff that I you know, stuff working on myself, but he would always say there’s no such thing as try you either do or you don’t? Yeah, it’s true. It’s true grab life by the handlebars right?
David Richman 1:10:20
By the handlebars and take one step forward, just do it.
Victoria Volk 1:10:25
Is there anything else you’d like to share?.
David Richman 1:10:27
And now if anybody wants to read the book, you could buy it wherever. And like I said before, 100% of the proceeds are going to support the cancer focus charities, and it’s not the money, it’s more the hope that, you know, if you read the book, maybe you can relate to one more person that needs you to relate to them. Or you can allow one more person to relate to you, because that’s what you need. So, you know, I think the bigger goal of trying to equip people to better have these conversations to more easily have these conversations to understand what other people are going through, or to allow people to understand what we’re going through or have gone through. It’s a really important facet of trauma. It’s a really important facet. Because, as I know that some people have it way harder than we do. But everybody has it hard in one way or another. Everybody does. Right? If we can just help them or allow them to help us or just help each other, get through it, or try to get through it. Right? How great is that? So, I guess I’d be the last thing I’d say if anybody’s interested do that. And I think, you know, hopefully the book will help.
Victoria Volk 1:11:40
Where can people find you?
David Richman 1:11:44
They can find me at cycleoflives.org.
Victoria Volk 1:11:48
Okay, and are you on social media at all?
David Richman 1:11:50
I am on Facebook, and Instagram. Just all you got to do is look up David Richman, or cycle of lives or both. And you’ll find me I often post about, you know, inspiring cancer stuff, inspiring life stuff. Also, kind of quasi documents, some of the crazier athletic things that I do. And so yeah, it’s it’s pretty fun.
Victoria Volk 1:12:15
Awesome. I will put all the links in the show notes as well. So, look there, if you want to connect. Yeah, thank you so much for being here and sharing all of the wisdom that you’ve gained throughout your experience of cycle of lives and with your sister and sharing her story with us as well. Thank you.
David Richman 1:12:34
Oh, you’re welcome. And thank you for asking so many great questions. You’re very good at what you do. And I know that you’re helping people so keep it up.
Victoria Volk 1:12:42
Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours, thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.
Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Miscarriage, Podcast, Pregnancy & Infant Loss |
Corchele Smith | A Mother’s Empty Arms
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Empty Arms Syndrome is a phenomenon most often associated with stillbirth. However, as Corchele’s story illustrates, feeling an ache to hold your baby is a very real feeling even if you deliver a breathing child.
Ten hours after delivering Breklyn by emergency cesarian, Corchele and her husband were faced with a loss no parent should ever experience. And, the fact that it was completely preventable only added to their heartache.
Corchele, and her former husband, turned their heartache into purpose after a chance gift helped transform Corchele’s empty arms of suffering into arms of action and purpose.
Whether you have experienced infant/child loss yourself or not, I hope you listen to Corchele’s transformational story of heartache to meaning and how her family continued to honor Breklyn in their lives.
I don’t believe we ever fully understand the impact our presence has in others’ lives, but as Breklyn’s life shows, even a brief presence in the physical plane can create ripples.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 00:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. today. My guest is Corchele Smith, she is the founder of because of Breklyn , because of Breklyn is a nonprofit whose mission is to help families who experienced pregnancy infant and child loss. They do this by getting as many unstuffed bears into the hands of those families who experienced this devastating life event. Thank you for being here and for sharing your story today.
Corchele Smith 01:27
Thank you for having me. It’s such an honor.
Victoria Volk 01:29
So, tell us about Breklyn.
Corchele Smith 01:33
Okay. So, Breklyn is my daughter who passed May 23 2016, 10 hours after birth. Her death was not expected we did not know anything was wrong, until we lost her heartbeat. And then we got we went into an emergency C section. And I think we knew more at that time after she was born that she would not be here in a physical form on Earth for much longer. So, we will not we the doctors and the staff did CPR. They did blood transfusions, plasma transfusions and kept her on life support until I was able to wake up from just the medications of the C section. And I was able to go see her. And then it wasn’t very long after I had seen her that I I just knew I call it mother’s intuition. I just knew that she was one I could tell she was suffering on life support. And I just knew that she wasn’t supposed to be here. And so I asked them to pull her off of life support. And she actually lived for two hours off of life support and was more alive than she was in the eight hours on life support. She was cooing and she was just like, I call it talking. She was just talking the entire time. And it was the most beautiful two hours that I have ever been given.
Victoria Volk 03:29
I have three kids and I so much of your energy is spent right like growing this baby and you feel the baby and you know, you develop this bond that you haven’t even met the child yet. But you have this bond. And that’s something that we as women, I think not take for granted. I don’t think that we necessarily take it for granted. But maybe we kind of do in a way. I don’t know. But it’s this beautiful gift that we’re given that men will never understand. Right? They’ll never get to experience it. And we have this bond well before they’re even born and I just I can’t imagine knowing that that’s going to be taken away. And so my my heart goes out to you and your husband, your scale family do they did they find out what happened?
Corchele Smith 04:31
They did. There were rumors and stories, and I didn’t get a full answer until my post op appointment. And we found out that when you, so we went into the hospital on a Friday, thinking that my water had broken and when they they swapped and tested, and it came back negative. Well, we found out later that it was a false negative, so my water had broken. And I’m not sure if you’re familiar with this, but when you’re when a mother is in labor for too long, she can start developing an infection. And that infection can get to the baby and cause problems. It’s called choreo, amnio itis. And typically, the hospitals catch it, they give you an antibiotic and everything is great. However, because it was a false negative, and I was sent home on Friday, I was in labor on Friday, I was in labor on Saturday. And I was in labor all of Sunday until on Sunday, I was just like, something is not right. I have to go to the hospital again. And I was admitted Sunday night, because I was actually contracting, that test still said that my water had not broken. And so, you know, it’s a test that is cheaper. So, insurances like it, it’s quicker. So, the hospitals like it as well. And but it’s not effective. It’s not as effective as this other test that they could use. And so, we did finally find out my OB did, you know, kind of sit me down, and this is what happened. And, you know, just our his condolences, and, you know, everything that a doctor says during during that time. So, she did die from choreo amnio itis, from, from me being in labor for too long,
Victoria Volk 06:38
That’s probably even more heartbreaking. I mean, I can’t imagine hearing that because it could have been, it’s so that’s so preventable, right?
Corchele Smith 06:46
Yeah, it was it. Yeah, to just think if I would have I, I mean, I can’t really say like, been more aggressive, because we rely so much on the medical field. But if maybe I would have been more aggressive and you, you need to test again, or I don’t, I’m not going home or, you know, whatever, if I would have pushed to stay, she would be here today.
Victoria Volk 07:12
You touched on something that is very real, for us women and mothers is just the guilt. And
guilt is an intent to do harm. And I know you didn’t intend to do harm, and you know, you didn’t intend to do harm. But I imagine there was still grief there, obviously, because how do you not feel like if I would have done this, or I would have done that, just like you said, but how did that then? Like, how did you reconcile that? And with your spouse as well? Like how, you know, how did you get over that aspect?
Corchele Smith 07:49
I did it for the longest time. I, we him and I haven’t talked much about like guilt, we try not to go down the rabbit hole of like, what if, but I always felt like this. This death, her death was somebody’s fault. And I knew that I knew that the hospital didn’t like mean to I knew my doctor didn’t mean to. And so once you start crossing off all those people have, well, it’s not their fault. It’s not their fault. It came back on me any end even though I know now, and I knew then that it wasn’t my fault. Who else was to blame but myself and so I just stayed in guilt for the longest time. And then I just I spot I spiraled out of control. Guilt turned into depression, depression turned into apathy, apathy, turned into wanting to be suicide or not wanting to be suicidal, but suicidal thoughts. And it was very, very dark for like two and a half years, because I just lived in those just low vibrational feelings for the longest time and I finally when I hit finally hit rock bottom and started healing that was like the first thing that I had to do was recognize that it wasn’t my fault and rewrite that story and also forgive myself for the story that I had made up in my head. It was really just like writing the story of what I believed and how is this not true? How can we disprove this? Well, because none of this is true you you know you can’t feel guilty anymore. You can’t carry that guilt and shame around with you anymore. And that’s how I truly started to to deal with it and cope with it. heal from it.
Victoria Volk 10:02
Did you have other children at the time, too?
Corchele Smith 10:04
Yeah. So Brocklin has an older sister. And at the time she was, let’s see, she was four. And then later we had, she has a younger brother now, but we just had one at the time of Breklyn stuff.
Victoria Volk 10:22
And it’s like trying to process what just happened. And all those feelings in the grief, and then still trying to like to put on the mom hat, while still having to address all the physical changes, of not having a baby, you know, you still have all those physical changes that you go through after giving, you know, having a child I can’t imagine.
Corchele Smith 10:50
And then you also because I was full term, you also have the, you have to pack up the crib and the clothes and the dresser and that nursery, you thought you were bringing your baby home to needs to be taken down. Because unfortunately, you don’t have a use for it anymore.
Victoria Volk 11:11
What did help you in those, I know you mentioned just really addressing that. It wasn’t your fault, and really trying to forgive yourself and what helped you anything specific that helped you during those times?
Corchele Smith 11:26
In the beginning, my faith, and my belief in God helped me to, I guess, I was taught that everything happens for a reason. So in the beginning, that helped a ton, like she’s with God, and I will see her again. And then when that wasn’t enough, then I decided to, there was time for help. And I saw not a therapist, but I got a life coach. And with her, I really, really did the work and started. I mean, it was just like one thing after another we did. So, I did so much healing in such a short amount of time. I think I cried every single day for like those five months that we worked together because i was i Tears are shedding of emotion. And I was just shutting emotions left and right. And it’s also healing for the heart to cry. And so, I was just and to be able to feel emotions as well, because with grief. I felt like I’d never experienced grief before. And so, I felt like there was a timeline on it. And so, you know, like a year and a half when I still miss her and I’m still grieving her. And I felt like I needed to cry. But I wouldn’t give myself permission to cry. Because I didn’t feel that that was appropriate. Like I would literally get inside my head PowerShell it’s been a year and a half, you need to get over it you need to move on. This is ridiculous. You need to stop crying about it stop moping about it. So again, I changed that story. Here I am five years later, literally yesterday, I missed her. And so, I spent the amount of time I needed to cry and gave myself permission to do that. And then I I got on with my day my grief will never, I have learned now that there’s no timeline for grief, my grief will never go away at all. And I’ll continue to grieve. And so it’s about giving myself permission to feel the emotions when I need to feel them. But also knowing that I can’t stay in those emotions because it will bring me back down to those low vibrational feelings. And I like to live life in those high vibrational feelings.
Victoria Volk 14:06
So, tell us about the nonprofit. And when did that start?
Corchele Smith 14:12
That started a few weeks after Brooklyn died, my aunt gifted me and unstuffed bear. And she said, when you’re ready, take it and stuff it. And I hope that this will bring a little bit of healing to you. And kind of like a memory of Breklyn and she suggested you know; you can put her own family pictures or whatever you want. There’s no expectation for it. And I will be completely honest, I was like this. This is the dumbest thing. Like why and I think I was kind of angry too at life at the at the universe. Like I don’t want a bear. I want my baby. And so, I put the bear away I’ve ever and I honestly had every intention of throwing it away. I’m not Not gonna lie. But just one day I was like, okay, I’ll just give it a chance and see what happens. So, I stuffed it. And when I missed Brooklyn, I would hold it and lay. One night, I woke up with empty arm syndrome. And I picked up my bear who didn’t have a name, that at the time, and I and I bounced her, and I hugged her and I seem to her I did everything with my bear that I would have done with Rachlin, and it brought so much healing to me that night. I just so much comfort. And at that moment, I was like, I don’t care if people judge me at all. This is all I have of my baby. So, if I want to hold my bear, if I want to take my bear on vacation, I am going to and so I did and through time, we named her Breck, she’s our Breck bear. And she goes everywhere with us. She’s family now. I love her. So much. I love her as much as I love my children. And it was Breklyn Angel bursary was coming up her first angel bursary, and I wanted to do something to remember her I just didn’t really know what I didn’t feel like a balloon release was good enough. And somebody close to me suggested, just ask the question, what helped you the most, so far during your grief journey? And I was like, well, Breck did. Like, that’s, that’s a given. And so, we decided to ask, you know, Brooklyn’s grandmas, and grandpas, and aunts, and uncles and cousins. That didn’t, you know, because you can’t buy her a birthday gift, would you consider donating $10 To buy a bear. And then we can give these bears to hospitals for future families that lose children, and they loved it. And so we did that the first year. And then we got really good feedback from the hospital that we donated to. And so we decided, you know, the second year, we would do it again. And this time, I kind of like posted on social media a little bit that I have some friends also donate. And then you know, the third year happened again. And this time, I actually had friends ask if I was going to do bears, again, as a couple of people kind of like these bear things. And the more bears that we got out, you don’t hear from the families every time somebody gets a bear. But we had heard of one or two stories by then and, and these parents were so so thankful for the bears. And so we just kind of continued to do it until we were like, um, we’re, we’re basically running a nonprofit. Why don’t we just continue this? Why don’t we make it official? What’s stopping us? Like, we’re having the best time doing it. It’s it’s the best way to remember Brooklyn. Like we as how how do I say this, like, we can still parent her and be her mom and dad through this foundation, she her memory is still alive with every bear that we give. And so it just, we didn’t plan it. It just kind of fell into our laps, and we ran with it. And we’ve been really, really successful with it up to this point. And we can’t we can’t wait to see what else is is in store for because of Brooklyn.
Victoria Volk 18:54
I love that story. I love how it came just organically just and it I felt I can just picture it when you’re sharing with this bear. And in that moment and how much healing it did bring you I can just I could just feel I get goosebumps actually when you share that. So, confirmation chills. Yeah, and I think too, it’s like, it’s so easy to shut off ourselves or like stop ourselves from allowing our hearts to go there to like to even attempt to feel some sort of connection. And that’s probably really what helped you establish and really feel that connection to her even though she’s not here physically, right?
Corchele Smith 19:41
Yeah. In fact, just the other day I had somebody ask is all the pain and suffering that you continue to do because I I will hear of stories, and it will trigger me. And so, we’ll go through the motions again and they asked, is that all worth it just because just for us? nonprofit. And, you know, I said absolutely, absolutely, it is worth it because I’m helping so many families and it’s not even me. It’s, it’s Breckland, like Brocklin is helping so many families and these bears are bringing such comfort to these families in such healing. And I just I, once it’s started, I can’t imagine giving it up. And I have felt more close to her than ever. The more work I do on the nonprofit, the closer I feel to her, so although I do get triggered, I, I’ve never felt closer to her in my life. And it’s I wouldn’t want to go back to waking up every day feeling so disconnected to from her. And just relying on my faith of, oh, well, I’ll see her again. Now I wake up every day, feeling solely connected to her. And it’s beautiful. I don’t have to rely on will one day I’ll see her again. Because I can feel her every day. She’s in my life, every single day. And so yes, all of that pain and suffering of the few stories that affect me is totally worth. Totally worth it.
Victoria Volk 21:35
I know, too, that you’re our our you’re a Reiki Master, correct? And so we can speak a lot about the energy of grief and all of that, but I think it’s a perspective of understanding that you can choose to be in that low vibrational experience in in your day, which can be that is valid, right, those feelings of deep sorrow and just feeling really low. They’re valid feelings. And you need to let express those some in some way. But to be able to also feel connected is healing in and of itself.
Corchele Smith 22:20
Yeah. And I mean, going back to what you said those low vibrational feelings when they come up, you really essentially, I mean, just speaking from, you know, the perspective of Reiki and energy. You really have to feel those and let those out because then they become trapped. And I mean, you know, and I know trapped emotions, then walk our chakras, or get stored somewhere and start causing issues and they cause unbalanced and stuff. And so yes, absolutely feel that deep sorrow, that deep agony when it comes up. Don’t Don’t trap it into your body, because that doesn’t do any that doesn’t do any good.
Victoria Volk 23:04
So, I’m curious, did the Reiki come after that? After the loss of Breklyn?
Corchele Smith 23:06
It did. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 23:09
How did that come about?
Corchele Smith 23:13
Um, I don’t even know. I don’t think I even remember because it was only just a couple years ago. And really, I started with energy. And then energy, then opened up my perspective and broaden my horizon of the chakras. And I was like, oh, well, what is this teach me more about the chakras? And then I thought like, it was just beautiful, like, oh, okay, so, you know, like, third eye chakra throat chakra if I need to public speak, I’ll just like, rely on my, on my throat chakra. And then somebody was like, well, they can be blocked, or they can be closed off. And I’m like, well, okay, well teach me more. And so then I, I would, I would learn more about how they can be closed. And then and then I asked the question, how, how do you activate them? If they’re off and blocked? How do you unblock them? And how do you activate them? And they’re like, oh, Reiki, okay, will somebody please teach me what Reiki is as well. And so once I started to learn about it, I was like, and I honestly got certified or signed up, because really, honestly, I didn’t, I didn’t want to like do Reiki on other people at all. I just wanted to do it, like have the knowledge of it and and be able to utilize it myself. And those close around me, but the universe had different plans for that. And so that’s originally why I signed up because I just wanted to be knowledgeable about it. I wanted to be able to do it if I needed it. And then it was like, two weeks before I graduated. The download came in Have you need To use this on clients, you need to practice this on, you know, the public or whoever comes to you. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess I’m gonna be doing this then. And so, again, just an organic snowball. Definitely, I had no idea what it was I didn’t even know like about energy worker, anything before Brocklin. And it’s just since then, it’s just been one download after another. And it’s been beautiful, really.
Victoria Volk 25:37
That has been my experience to actually I think the, the, the theme that I’m connecting between your story and mine is, once you and I, through our grief and everything, once we started to actually process and heal, it opened up all sorts of doors and opportunities, and really, probably even more so connected are each of us individually. And I think this is what happens. I think this naturally, I’m really interested in studying this more in Grievers who get to the other side of it because I feel like once you actually process grief, like truly address it, you really get in tune with your intuition. I think you are taught I think grief itself is is just like the I describe it like a veil that covers your face. You don’t see yourself clearly in the mirror. You can’t see others clearly. You don’t see situations clearly for what they are. It’s you’re stuck in your head. You can’t tap into the heart like they’re like, that’s really I speak a lot about that stuff. And yeah, I to it was like What’s Reiki? I kept hearing about this Reiki thing, and I’ve heard that so many times, like how did you get into Reiki? I don’t know. It just found me. And I got every Reiki Master I know is like, oh just kind of kept knocking on the door, you know, and it’s you know, you’re gonna answer like what you know.
Corchele Smith 27:09
Reiki found me. I didn’t find it.
Victoria Volk 27:11
Exactly I yeah, I think that’s, that is the common thing I hear most often from other Reiki practitioners is Reiki phone me. Yeah. And it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Really. So, I’m curious then like through what has changed in your life with your grief, since introducing Reiki.
Corchele Smith 27:39
Oh, everything my entire life has completely changed because I don’t know about you. But it didn’t stop at Reiki. For me. I wanted to know more. And so, I’m currently in school to be a crystal healer, through Reiki to incorporate, like, be actually certified to incorporate crystals. Um, and so I would have never done that. If it wasn’t for Reiki, I would have never done Reiki if it wasn’t for Breklyn . Um, I also three through coaching, I have found being coached I should say, through being coached, I have found a great love and respect for coaches and those who coach and so I have also stepped into that role, as well. And I have I stepped away from religion, but I’m more spiritual and connected than I have ever been in my entire life. Looking back at the before me of Breklyn I can honestly say I don’t know who that is, because I can I live completely different now completely different. And even just those who knew me before and after, like they’ve said the same thing. You’re just, you’re just completely different now, and like I feel like I keep repeating myself, but it’s just, it’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful thing and kind of going back to what you said before grief. I really do feel like that something tragic has to happen in somebody’s life for them to really start to connect or want to connect with their heart and with source divine God universe, however that looks like for you. You really, and it doesn’t have to be death. It can be a tragic loss of a job that causes grief, it can be loss of a pet that that is grief as Well, so however grief comes to you I, I really feel like we as humans have to hit that those low vibrational feelings of grief and go through those to really connect because I think you can agree. We, we can’t pull out of those low vibrational feelings by ourselves, you. And like I said, its whatever source looks like for you whatever higher power looks like for you, that pulls you out whether that’s connecting to yourself connecting to your heart connecting to the Divine, whatever that is. You can’t get out of you can’t get out of those alone. You just in my opinion, you just can’t get out of those low vibrational feelings by yourself. You have to have something to connect to to really pull you out.
Victoria Volk 31:02
Yeah, we don’t heal in isolation.
Corchele Smith 31:03
No, no.
Victoria Volk 31:04
There’s a reason why when I started before, I started this podcast, I had a vision for the artwork, and it was beautifully created for me by an illustrator and she just brought my vision to life, but it’s me on an island with a megaphone. It’s like, you know, that is grief. That is how you feel as a Griever you feel like you’re alone. You feel like you’re screaming, dude, like you want to scream for the rooftops, but no one’s gonna hear you anyway. And you feel like you already are screaming and no one’s hearing you anyway, right? It’s it’s a very isolating feeling. And because of all these lessons that were taught as children, no fault to the parents, it’s just this generational pattern that repeats, we grow up believing things about grief, being you know, grieve alone, is one of the myths of grief. So I’m curious to learn. What were the stories and beliefs and patterns and things that you learned or what in your upbringing? You said you hadn’t really experienced grief before Brooklyn? What was your childhood like that shaped?
Corchele Smith 32:20
I grew up in a in a really religious LDS family. And we just, I grew up with that knowledge of God and, and what the LDS religion looks like, and their beliefs. And that’s, those were my beliefs as well. And, you know, I had my great grandpa’s die and distant aunts, and uncles die as a child, but nothing. I never lost any of my grandma’s grandpa’s. I, I was blessed. I didn’t, I didn’t lose a parent at a young age or a sibling, any young age, I just, we didn’t I didn’t grow up with pets. And so, I didn’t have to go through that. You know, I mean, I had goldfish, but they last all of five days. And then you go out and get new goldfish. And so that that wasn’t grief, I just go get new goldfish. And I, it’s not that I was sheltered from grief. I just it, I guess I was just never given the opportunity, if that’s what you want to call it to experience, grief. And because of that, my, my parents didn’t have the opportunity to teach about grief, either other than what you learn at church, or, you know, through the scriptures. And so, it. It was, I mean, I’m very blessed that I didn’t have to experience that. As a child. I mean, there’s pros and cons to both. But yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t have to deal with it until Brooklyn. And I think Brooklyn was really the one who showed it for a lot of my family. Like, I think it I mean, I speak for them, but I think it was the first loss that my mom had to deal with. That was very close to her. It was the first loss that my fiance had to deal with, like he hadn’t ever lost anybody either. Through his childhood, it was the first loss that like my siblings, also experienced as well. So, so her dying, it was really the first time that somebody like really close to us had died. And so, we were all of us were just kind of thrown into it. And we I mean, we all have different stories we’ve developed we’ve all grieved, grieve differently. But yeah, we just never are childhood was, I like to say like anybody else’s you just sports in school and a fairly good household, my parents were split. And, you know, both households were just very religious, and we never had to deal with grief at all. Two parents were divorced. They were Yes. And I, it’s funny, you bring that up because I didn’t feel a certain type of way, I am the oldest of three kids. And my sister was very, very young when they split. My brother was like, also young as well. So, we didn’t really feel grief that our parents split, at least not in the present. Now that I’ve done some inner child work, work on myself, that has actually come up, their divorce has actually come up. And I and I realized that I was experienced experiencing grief. But I didn’t know what that was. Nor did I know how to express it. And so, I bother with it, I bottled it up, which goes back to those trapped emotions, they got trapped in my body until here I am 25 years later from their divorce, and that divorce has come up in my inner child healing, and I’ve had to heal from that. And so that was grief. But I didn’t know it. And I didn’t express it either. And so, I kept it. I kept it in. I didn’t know it was grief until 25 years later.
Victoria Volk 36:53
I was gonna say, because you’d be the first podcast guest that never had any grief, or to a loss. And I thought, no, it gotta be something.
Corchele Smith 37:03
There definitely was, but it got trapped and didn’t come up until 25 years later.
Victoria Volk 37:09
So, I also want to ask my curiosity. So, if you don’t want to talk about it, absolutely, just let me know. But so, your older daughter? Was that a relationship that ended?
Corchele Smith 37:24
It is. Her dad and I split when she was about almost six months old?
Victoria Volk 37:31
Do you feel like a part of your experience as a child of divorced parents has that? Do you connect any of that experience to the split with that relationship? Or? And also, to like, what, how do you feel like that impacted you? Because then you became a single mom. And I mean, surely there’s grief in that I don’t want to imply that there was.
Corchele Smith 38:01
Um, the relationship needed to end is very toxic. And it was safer for us to be away. And again, I didn’t know what grief was. And so, you know, I was I was sad, but I was more focused on Okay, I have this baby girl that I have to provide for. And so, I was focused on getting a job getting back into school getting us stabilized, and I didn’t have time for grief, I didn’t have time to like, think about the past and how I’m so sad that it it didn’t work out. I didn’t I didn’t have time for any of that I was more future focused. How do I how do I provide for for this baby that is mine and give her the best life so that we don’t end up on the streets. And so we don’t have to live on the streets. And it? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Looking back. There is there is probably some trapped emotions there that have not gotten brought up yet through my healing. But other things have other emotions, bitterness, anger, have have come up. And so I think really after saying it and talking about it, I think I just kept on my emotions just inside unless they were happy. That is one thing that I can say is that I think has to do with religion. And I think it has to do with part of how I grew up. You don’t express negative feelings. You just you have to always be happy. You just have to have Be happy and positive and No, no, you don’t have bad days you don’t. You don’t cry, you don’t get depressed, you don’t feel those negative things. And so if it was a negative feeling like grief is I, I didn’t have time to feel it. And I didn’t dare feel it, because I didn’t know that it was okay to feel negative feelings. And so I just always focused on the positive of everything. And that’s how I was after breath and die to like, I don’t, I can’t feel these negative feelings. I gotta like, be positive about it. And what’s the lesson to be learned in this? And how do we make this tragedy into something beautiful. And that’s really how because of Brooklyn started is that it was like that lesson that beautiful thing. And I think that’s why I spiraled into those negative vibrational feelings. Because I wasn’t allowing myself to feel those negative feelings today. Absolutely. If I just fill in it, I am going to feel it and it has shaped me how I parent my children to I do not ever want them to grow up thinking that they can’t experience anger or grief or sadness or anything like that. I want them to be able to feel everything feel all the emotions that life has. And so yeah, it’s really just shaped shaped me into the mother that I am. It’s an evolution, right? It’s yeah, yeah. ever evolving.
Victoria Volk 41:53
Were there any like unhelpful, or hurtful things that you could share with people to help educate them? On, you know, things that were said to you, because I really very much this podcast is about sharing stories. And it’s also very much about education, too.
Corchele Smith 42:15
Yeah, there’s a few things that come to mind. The first being I had, I’m sure she meant well, but I had a dear friend, come to Brooklyn’s viewing. And I wish that I was making this up. But she asked me when I was going to have another baby. Right then in there. And I was like, What? What? What, what are you talking? I was just like, Oh, okay. And I’m not speechless very often. But I was definitely speechless. So don’t ask when they’re going to have another baby. Like, at any point, really. They they wanted a baby. And so, asking them when they’re going to have another one is literally a reminder that they don’t have that one. And also, if those parents are blessed enough to have another baby, because, I mean, infertility is also very real thing. And so if the parents are blessed with another baby, that doesn’t mean that that baby now replaces their dead baby. And I’ve had so many people, unfortunately, a lot of family that I’ve had to kind of put in their place and educate them on this is so many people after my son was born, and Brooklyn’s younger brother, after he was born, so many people said, oh, like, now you should be healed. Now you’re better now. And I had some people say like, Oh, he’s he takes Brooklyn’s place. Like, that’s great. And I was like, no, nobody takes her place. I’m literally just adding a child into my family. That doesn’t mean we forget about Brooklyn. And that definitely doesn’t mean that I’m healed. And he, he has brought not for me, he didn’t bring healing for me. But he brought a ton of healing for my fiance a ton of healing for him like that’s what he needed to heal is was was a baby, and that’s fine. We all heal differently. Personally, for me, that is not how I healed in fact, I between my suicidal thoughts, and then all my trapped emotions that I was feeling. I had postpartum depression really, really bad after him. And so, you combine those two things, and I I was a wreck and so it didn’t bring any healing for me, but it spiraled me into wanting to get healed because I hated living with all of that. And so, yes, another piece of advice is, if a rainbow baby comes along, that baby is not taking the place of their dead baby. There is also I tell people over and over, there’s no timeline for grief, ever, ever, ever. I am five years into this, and I still grieve. Frequently, I and I always will, because she is not here in the way that I want her here, meaning physical form. And so, and that’s, and that’s hard. I think. We, as humans, when we lose something physical, it’s hard for us because we can’t hug them when we want to kiss them when we want to. And so it’s, it’s very hard for us to understand, if you believe in energies or spirits that they’re still here. It’s, it’s just very, very hard to have an expectation of having Brocklin here physically, but accepting the fact that she’s here, energetically, instead. So, you know, there is, even though she is here, I’m still going to grieve the physical form of her for the rest of my life.
Victoria Volk 46:49
Well, when we talk about grief would actually grief is it’s, you know, loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. Yeah. And anything you wish would have been different, better or more. And with that, each passing birthday and the milestones that come, you’re going to feel that sadness, and that’s okay. It’s, but if it’s crippling you, if it’s this crippling sorrow, if it’s this crippling experience, where you can’t function for days at a time, or weeks at a time, or months at a time, you know, and then they have all these other labels for like, complicated grief, or, you know, they put all these labels on it. It’s just grief. It’s just grief. It is, it’s great. You don’t need a bunch of fancy names and labels, and you don’t need to pop a pill for grief either. And I know, I don’t know about you, but I know you touched on postpartum grief, and postpartum is like a cocktail for feeling like you are on a one-way ticket to out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was your experience that you got a prescription for that?
Corchele Smith 48:04
No, I am very, I don’t like the pharmaceutical. I just tried to stay away from meds I be I don’t know where this came from. But. But since I was little, I have always believed that you should not put anything into your body. That is not like, I want to I don’t want to say natural, but like medications, I didn’t even like taking ibuprofen, because I knew that my body was strong enough to heal my headache. But if I gave it ibuprofen, then it would start becoming weak. And so when, when Brocklin died, the surgeon because I actually had a midwife, and so he couldn’t do the surgery, we had to have another doctor come in. And so that doctor actually handed me like a prescription for antidepressants. And I was like, I don’t want this, like, I don’t want these names, like you’re going to need them. And I was like, I don’t want them. Because I’ve seen what they do to my close friends and family and it numbs them. And they walk around on autopilot like a zombie and I, I don’t want to live like that. And, and I’m only 26 years old. I don’t want to be on antidepressants for the rest of my life. And so I wanted to go through the waves first, and then if it didn’t work, then I’d go get on pills and with postpartum, the same, the same thing. And but instead I was too ashamed or too afraid to tell somebody that I was experiencing postpartum because I was afraid that that reflected that I was a bad mother, and that I would give my children taken away. So, I, I hit it, I was a completely different person. When I stepped out my front door than I was in, in my home, and my fiance, I mean, bless him. He wasn’t educated enough on postpartum. And so, he didn’t pick up on anything. He just thought, like, I was just moody all the time. And, and so I, again, I didn’t see a doctor, I didn’t get medicated for it. I just, it was just a cocktail for a one-way ticket to get out of here. And my coach was like, my last hope I was like, I can’t go to a therapist, because I know by law, they have to, like, report certain things. So I wanted somebody who was safe, who knew nothing about me, who also wasn’t under contract to report certain things to really like, just let it all out. And, and somebody who like, again, my biggest thing was like, nonjudgement, because I was I like, had so many skeletons and so many demons that I felt like I was hiding, but that I wanted to tell somebody, but I didn’t feel safe enough. And so it was my life coach that I, I ended up, like telling her everything, all the things and shit. Like I said, it really, she really, really helped me. And again, she’s not certified to write a prescription. And so I knew that she’d actually made me deal with it, instead of putting me on antidepressants, which is what I wanted. And it was my last hope, I’ll be really honest, it was, it was my last cry for help. She was my last cry for help. If that didn’t work, I was going straight to my doctor, and I was going to get on meds. But I wanted, I am so stubborn, that I wanted to make sure that I tried everything before I got on meds. So no, thankfully, I did not have to take any prescriptions for any of that.
Victoria Volk 52:13
I lasted a week on it. And I just I intuitively knew to it’s like, there has to be a way I can get beyond this. That doesn’t require me to drug myself. Right, like, yeah. Do you see? I just want to point this out. Do you see how what you intuitively felt or believed as a child has come full circle for you with Reiki?
Corchele Smith 52:41
Yeah, it’s like, it’s so weird to like, I’m just like, really, like it’s just been. So I guess I wouldn’t call it weird. It’s just been so interesting.
Victoria Volk 52:56
I had interviewed a medium. And she talked about the seven-year cycle. Like that we have the seven-year cycle of life, like every seven years, it’s like we kind of get pushed into this process or pushed into a situation or pushed into an experience that gets us to another level in our lives are, you know, to help us evolve, I suppose, in a way. And I know you mentioned in your notes that you also in top on top of the life coach, you did have a medium reading that seemed to help you and regardless of what you believe, I’ve personally had one medium reading, and she was actually the medium that will be also coming on the podcast. But can you share how that helped you?
Corchele Smith 53:52
Yeah, it was three months after I had gotten my coach. And I felt like so we had worked through like forgiving myself through letting the guilt and shame go. But it kept coming up. I felt like and I felt like I couldn’t forgive myself. Because then it meant forgetting about her. And so I needed a way to connect with her. Like I was like Breklyn I need you to send me a sign that it’s okay for me to move forward. And that you know that I’m not forgetting about you that it’s okay to be happy. Because I want to be happy. But I’m afraid that if you see me happy, that means that I’ve forgotten about you. So I just I just need this and now I was waiting for like I don’t I don’t know what I was waiting for a billboard or something and it wasn’t coming and so I was like well Who, who connects with with spirits and my stepdads sister in law, so my, my step aunt, she is actually a medium. And so she was in my childhood a lot, but we fell off. And so I knew that like people could connect with, with the other side and with spirits and stuff. And so I found a medium. And, but I was very, very hesitant. I thought they were fraud. And so I shut down all of my social media at the time, we didn’t have a website. And so I knew she couldn’t look like there. And I, I was like, if, if this is going to be legit, I’m going to make sure everything is locked. Like you can’t see anything, you don’t know anything about my story. And I also did via online, because I had this idea in my head that people will play off of your emotions, like when you nod your head, like she’ll just the medium will just keep going that way. And so essentially, I kind of went into it, wanting an answer, but not believing I would get an answer because they’re all a fraud, right? Like, that’s totally what I thought. And so we did, we did it online. And it was, it was the most beautiful thing. She said things in there that nobody would ever know. In fact, she brought up my suicide attempt that I attempted by myself that I hadn’t told anybody, no, not one. So not even my fiance knew about it. And she brought it up. And I was like, there’s no way like this is real real. And she brought up other things that nobody would know, at all. And so by the time we’re halfway through, I’m like, this is legit, and I’m already balling. And then at the very end it, they talked about when Brooklyn came to her, she wasn’t a baby, she was a woman. And she described this beautiful woman. And so from that I have like, pictured in my head, what she looks like. And I’ve had other experiences with this woman. But also, like at the end, she said, Breklyn has the message of she wants you to be happy again. She knows the pain and the sorrow and the guilt that you’ve been carrying for so long. It’s not your fault at all. It’s okay to forgive yourself. And then she said, Mom, I just want you to be happy, I want you to go back to enjoying life. And there was more in the reading. But at that moment, when she said that, I fell to my knees, and I just sobbed. And I just thank you, thank you, thank you. And I like naturally I just like let my hands out like just like, down though. And it felt like lead bullets just coming from my fingertips all of that guilt that I’ve been carrying for so long. We’re like tripping out of my fingertips, my shoulders just felt so much lighter I I could breathe for like the first time in four years. My whole being just like got so much lighter. And so that reading with that medium one changed my opinion on mediums. They are legit. And to it helped helped me evolve it, it took me to the next level of healing, and I still refer to it almost monthly, and I still get a new message out of it.
Victoria Volk 59:14
I’m glad that that experienced that you had that experience. And again, like I had a really wonderful experience as well. Most of my healing came from going through Grief Recovery. And then I had a really, I’ve had a lot of healing come through with Reiki two from personally, often when I least expected and I’m sure you’ve probably experienced the same like that’s always works isn’t that I didn’t expect like that was out of left field. And so not everyone is going to necessarily have that type of experience. Right? It’s so individual because grief is individual. Right?
Corchele Smith 59:54
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean for anybody listening like me There were a ton of things that killed me medium ship was one of the things I can’t promise, but you know, it will heal. It will heal you; everybody will heal differently.
Victoria Volk 1:00:11
But the thing is, is you have hope you have hope of healing. And as long as you have hope. You’re not feeling like you have a one-way ticket out of here.
Corchele Smith 1:00:25
Yeah. And also believe, I mean, hoping, hoping is one thing, but when you take it to believing, as well, when you really believe that you’re going to get out of this, you will, as long as you do the work, you will get out of it. And that’s the disabled time.
Victoria Volk 1:00:44
That’s the distinction though. To go from hope to believe you have to take action, you have to move your feet you have to book with the life coach, you have to like actually ask for help. Right?
Corchele Smith 1:00:56
Yeah. Oh, yeah. You just you have to take that step. Even if it’s just a baby step. Continue to take those baby steps. You. You really you have to do the work to get out of it.
Victoria Volk 1:01:11
I’ll take that is your one tip. Yeah. Do you have another one? You’d like to share on that note?
Corchele Smith 1:01:20
As far as just hit like, you really have to do the work.
Victoria Volk 1:01:23
One tip for other hurting hearts.
Corchele Smith 1:01:27
Yeah, I mean, I would say that’s like my one up. And I mean, I kind of mentioned it before, just believe that you will get through it. Believe that you will.
Victoria Volk 1:01:41
Was there any one piece of advice that you received? And when it was really the darkest of days for you?
Corchele Smith 1:01:49
Nothing comes to mind. Like, I don’t feel like anything stuck. Really, no, no advice or anything. I I really, really held on to my religious beliefs of that I’ll see her again. And so, it was it was really about one religious belief that that I would see her, again, is what I is what I really held on to you. But there was really no advice that came from anybody.
Victoria Volk 1:02:28
Do you feel like that one feeling though, that you will see her again, that belief? Like I’m just saying in general for Grievers. The thought that comes to my mind when I hear you say that is that if I have this really strong belief that I will see my loved one again, it can actually be taken really, to the extreme of I want to see them today, where you’re then feeling suicidal, where you’re then like, I can’t take this anymore. I want to be with you today. I want to be with you now. And I just want to highlight if you’re having those thoughts. That’s that’s grief that still can be helped. Right?
Corchele Smith 1:03:17
Yeah, it can be and don’t be afraid to ask for help, though. at all you can, once you are there. Do you need help? Whether that’s professional help, or holistic healing help.
Victoria Volk 1:03:30
I’m curious, as you were going through this loss of your daughter, your fiance, like, how did you navigate that? I mean, it’s one thing to like, go through it as an individual as a as a mother, and then individually as the Father and but to was it like this dance between that you just kind of had to like,
Corchele Smith 1:03:53
It was so awkward. Like, because I would put on my brave face for him. Because I wanted to make sure that I was the strong one. And I would I mean; I wasn’t even dealing with my grief behind closed doors. But I didn’t dare grieve in front of him because I wanted to be the strong one. And he did the same thing. He didn’t dare grieve in front of me, because he wanted to be the strong one. And so we I know that he did, he did deal with it behind closed doors, because I remember one day like asking, do you even miss her? They didn’t even affect you. Do you even care that she died? And he’s he has never raised his voice. I mean, he got very stern and was like you don’t know how many times I’ve cried in the car by myself to the office or from the office? Because I miss her so much. much. And that’s when he told me, I don’t grieve in front of you because I want to be strong for you. And I was, I was like, Oh, okay. And then I read a book called, oh, man, something along the lines of like, couples communication after the loss of a child. I will have to you can put it in your like podcast notes, I’ll get the official name for that book. But I’m, I’m pretty sure that’s what it’s called. I read that book, because I felt like he wasn’t grieving the way I would expect him to like moping around crying all the time. So that’s where that idea came from, oh, he doesn’t care. He didn’t miss her. Anyway, that book saved our relationship. It not only taught me that it that people grieve differently. It also taught me to ask him questions about that, which is where those questions came from? Because I was concerned, like, do you even do you even miss her? And so it really, and we still, to this day, we still do this? Like I will. And well, let me not get ahead of myself. But to this day, we still do that. I will still sometimes ask him. Hey, do you miss her? Yes, I miss her every day, you know? Or if I feel like like when her Angel bursary just passed in May, I asked him how he was that a hey, check in with me. How are you feeling? How are you doing? What do you need? What can I give you? And he’s very, he’s very honest, and he’ll reciprocate those words. How are you feeling? What do you need? How can I support you? And I’m very honest, with my answers, him and I both remember her differently, I find so much comfort going to the cemetery. He does not. And I have learned that is okay, he doesn’t feel connected to her there. As I do. Instead, he he’s just the cutest he takes our breath. He’s an avid soccer fan, and an avid Seattle Sounders fan. So anytime they play, he wrapped a Seattle Sounders scarf around Breck and him and Breck stay on the couch and watch the game together. And that is how he feels connected to her. Whereas me like, I mean, I kind of laugh about it, because I’m like, that’s like, the silliest thing. But for him, that’s where he feels connected. And, and it’s okay, that he remembers her that way. And I remember her a different way, I’m very involved in the nonprofit, it helps me feel connected to her. It kind of stings a little bit for him. And so he, he’s involved, but he’s not as involved as I think a lot of people would expect him to be. Because he’s communicated to me, it’s kind of a little hard, kind of triggers me a little bit, and I respect that. Okay. I, you know, I don’t want to trigger you. And so I really, essentially run it by myself. And then he helps, where needed. And he helps a ton as far as like financial contribution, and a lot of our money goes, goes into it. And so he works hard to make sure that not only can our household and our, and, you know, whatever we like to do traveling or Season Passes elsewhere, not only can he support us in that way, but he can also keep that foundation running, if a grant doesn’t come through, or if a donation doesn’t come through, we can still keep our bears, we can still keep giving our bears and so that’s that’s kind of his, his thing. And we each have our different, our different things.
Victoria Volk 1:09:17
It’s beautiful. And that says a lot about how far probably your relationship has grown and evolved. And I just think it really is about giving permission. Right to is. Yeah, thank you for sharing that resource. So, I will put that in the show notes once you have the link and everything.
Corchele Smith 1:09:36
Yeah, I will. I will find it. I know exactly where it’s at. So, I will find it for you.
Victoria Volk 1:09:41
So, what would you say that your grief has taught you?
Corchele Smith 1:09:48
Oh, wow. I don’t think I’ve ever reflected on that. I think it’s taught me really just how short life is how much We take life for granted. It’s, it’s taught me how to be a better person, and how to be more compassionate, and kind, it’s taught me that you have no idea what the person next to what your neighbor is going through what the person in the checkout line is going through, and just to be kind to just to all human beings, because you have no idea what they’re going through. Grief has also taught me how to be present. In the moment, I think that’s the biggest thing that it has taught me how to just be present in everything that I do.
Victoria Volk 1:11:00
One thing that came to my mind is, through your story is even after even only living for 10 hours, the impact her life has had. Right? It’s, so we have this one life we are given. And even if you think you’re in your, let’s say, you’re in your 20s, or 40s, or you’re 14, or 84, I don’t care what it is, your life has meaning in it has an impact on people, you are impacting people, whether you know it or not. If a baby, a little baby can touch so many people, your life, your husband, you know, your fiance, your siblings, like the grandparents, like 10 hours, and the ripples of her life with the foundation, you know, the nonprofit.
Corchele Smith 1:12:05
I mean, and not only that, but she has impacted the way hospitals do intake now. Because we told them, they knew that they messed up. And so they said no more. With this test, we’re going to more expensive tests, because we can’t have that happen again, that was their fault. That was the hospital’s fault that that happened. It’s their fault that she’s not here. I mean, it’s nobody’s fault. But you know what I mean? And so they’ve changed that. And I can’t tell you, I’m still so close to all the nurses that were there when when Brooklyn was born. And I can’t tell you how many times a nurse has been like Breckland saved another baby today. The test came back, a test comes back negative, they do the other tests just to make sure. And some of those tests have come back positive. And so they the whole intake process here in Utah has changed because of her death. And so yeah, look at look at that impact that she’s had look, all the lives that she has saved so many parents who don’t have to go through this pain because of her. I, I mean, she’s just impacted. Everybody who knows her is impacted has been impacted.
Victoria Volk 1:13:30
That’s like, why isn’t that just a rule across the country?
Corchele Smith 1:13:38
While we’re while I’m hoping that one day it will be?
Victoria Volk 1:13:43
Yeah. Wow. Is that okay, can I ask? I’m gonna like really change gears, but I’m just curious because I was Group B strep, positive. Is that the same thing? Or is that different?
Corchele Smith 1:13:53
Okay. No, because I was negative.
Victoria Volk 1:13:58
Okay, cuz for anyone who doesn’t know maybe if a man you know, I don’t know, women went away there. But groupie struck, you know, when you get pregnant and they test you for group you strap and if you’re positive and you go into, once you’re once you go into labor, they give you antibiotics, if it’s been so many hours or whatever. And with my first child, I was actually it was he was born 12 hours after my water broke. Oh, so any like, almost to the minute so and on May 24.
Corchele Smith 1:14:29
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:14:33
If you would have bent just a little bit later I would have had it probably would have had us a Syrian but but yeah, so I was just curious because they give antibiotics for that.
Corchele Smith 1:14:43
They’re different.
Victoria Volk 1:14:46
Well, and what an incredible ripple creator she has too.
Corchele Smith 1:14:52
I know. I love it. I am very, very proud to be her mother.
Victoria Volk 1:14:56
It’s amazing. What gives you the most joy now and hope for the future.
Corchele Smith 1:15:02
My family brings me the most joy, like my my kids bring me so much joy. And just knowing I just have there’s not one specific thing that brings hope for the future. I just, I just feel it in my, in my soul in my Sacral Chakra I just feel just hope. And as long as I feel good sense I you know, I know about the chakras and stuff if my heart and or I’m not my sacral, my solar plexus as long as my solar plexus and my heart. Both feel good. I know I’m on the right path. And that is what gives me hope. As long as those two are just aligned so well and open and communicating well. I know I’m on the right path. Once one shifts or changes, I know something needs to shift or change in my life.
Victoria Volk 1:16:16
Amazing. And if you want to learn about Reiki a little bit more, do you..
Corchele Smith 1:16:22
Contact Victoria! you do it too?
Victoria Volk 1:16:26
I do. But well, because you don’t do distance sessions. Is that correct?
Corchele Smith 1:16:30
Yeah, correct. I only do in-person sessions.
Victoria Volk 1:16:36
Well, I will put a link to your website.
Corchele Smith 1:16:40
Only for because of Breklyn , all of my services and stuff you can just find on Instagram, I’ll give you all of that information. So, you would just message me for I mean, whatever you need, I do do trauma work and inner child healing and Shadow Work through zoom. And so I’ll outdistance those. So, if any of your listeners need some inner child healing or shadow work done, I can I can do that.
Victoria Volk 1:17:19
Okay, and we’ll put all of her contact information in the show notes. Yeah. And is there anything else? You would well share your handle for anyone listening? You’re on Instagram? Where can they find you?
Corchele Smith 1:17:32
Oh, I’m on Instagram at me personally, I’m on Instagram @corchelesmith. And then because of Brooklyn is on Instagram @becauseof Breklyn. And you can find my website and also the link to my nonprofit on Instagram. It’s LinkedIn like my personal profile as well. And then because of Brooklyn, www.becauseofbreklyn .org is our website.
Victoria Volk 1:18:10
Do you have any events or anything that you have coming down the pike about for the foundation?
Corchele Smith 1:18:17
We do not have any events currently right now we just closed like our huge event that we do yearly. And so right now, we are donating bears to hospitals. However, if any of your listeners work at a hospital or need a bear or want bears brought into the hospital, or whatever it is contact me because there are a ton of, I know that there are a ton of hospitals that we’re not in and we ship them all over. All over. We can ship them. So, if you need a bear, contact us if you’ve you know if you’ve had a loss of any kind of Nina bear. And then also, if you want your local hospital to have bears just shoot us a message and let us know. But yeah, and we’ll post all of our events on our on our webpage but for right now it’s it’s donation. Period. Summers, we usually is when we usually will donate everything and we like to take family family trips. So when we, for example, we were just in Vegas, because we service the hospitals in Nevada. And so it makes a fun little trip we really like to meet like the hospitals that we’re going to but sometimes that’s not always possible and we have to ship them so yeah,
Victoria Volk 1:19:48
Maybe, just maybe I will get you to North Dakota.
Corchele Smith 1:19:51
Maybe you are the person to suggest that in like two weeks like North Dakota But Dakotas. Yeah, they’re like, the Dakotas. And I’m like, I mean, I’ve thought about every state, but I don’t really know. I don’t really have any hookups there.
Victoria Volk 1:20:13
I’ll see what I can do.
Corchele Smith 1:20:15
Just shoot me a message and the hospitals close to you, and we’ll get in there and come out.
Victoria Volk 1:20:21
Yeah, I do. I do have a contact at one. Yeah, I yep, I do.
Corchele Smith 1:20:26
Great. That sounds like a plan. Look at the universe is working already.
Victoria Volk 1:20:31
Yes. Anything else you would like to share?
Corchele Smith 1:20:34
No, I’ve, I feel like I have said a lot. Thank you for allowing me to use my voice and share her story and having me on here.
Victoria Volk 1:20:46
Thank you. I feel it’s the ripples, the ripples. And so, thank you for sharing your story. And for being my guest. Yeah, thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.
Child Loss, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast |
Bob Ginsberg | A Quest for Truth
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
What is truth?
For many of us, it is what we’ve been told to believe to be true, without any real evidence or science to back up that truth.
After the sudden, tragic death of his daughter, Bob found his open-minded skeptical heart looking for evidence that his daughter’s consciousness still existed in some form after her passing.
He was having experiences that, years before, he may have dismissed. And yet, in his grief, found himself finding comfort in that which many others often raise an eyebrow at and dismiss.
In his quest for the truth of what happens to consciousness after death, he and his late wife, Phran, founded The Forever Foundation, a not-for-profit organization that shares the truth of consciousness after death that is backed by science and research. All the while, bringing comfort to the thousands of members in their (FREE) community and retreat participants.
Listen to Bob share his perspective of what grief has taught him and how, knowing what he knows, still doesn’t make the grief any easier some days since losing his wife in 2020. Bob also discusses the changes he’s endured after living alone for the first time as an adult since his wife’s passing.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 00:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices today. My guest is Bob Ginsberg. He started researching the evidence for survival of consciousness soon after his daughter died in 2002, devastated by the loss he needed science to tell him if she still existed in some form. In 2004, Bob and his wife Fran founded Forever Family Foundation, a global not for profit that educates the public about evidence that we are more than our physical bodies. Bob hosts the signs of life radio show his past editor of signs of Life magazine, heads the foundation’s medium evaluation certification program, and writes a blog at beyondthefivesenses.com and is also the author of the medium explosion. Bob, Fran and the foundation are currently featured in the Netflix Docu series surviving death. Sadly, Fran passed away to the spirit realm, September 22, 2020. Thank you so much for being here, Bob.
Bob Ginsberg 01:59
It’s my pleasure to be with you today.
Victoria Volk 02:02
You are actually a referral guest for me with our mutual friend Sirry Bernsen, who is a medium certified by the Forever Family Foundation. And she’s also a grief recovery specialist. So that’s exciting to have connected with her. And I absolutely love the Netflix Docu series surviving death. And in fact, I’ve also had Dr. Chris Kerr as a guest on my podcast from that Docu series as well. So, I loved it. So, thank you so much for being for your time today and for being my guest and sharing your story.
Bob Ginsberg 02:40
Yeah, well, it’s my pleasure, obviously, I have a common bond with you and most of your listeners. So, we’re all in the same world in both together.
Victoria Volk 02:50
So, before we started recording, you had mentioned that where you’re at now is far different from where you grew up in what you knew. And so, you’re living in Florida now and retirement community and you are originally from Brooklyn, New York, which is quite the difference, you’re kind of sharing with me earlier can. And there’s grief in that too, right? This leaving what you knew, and in fact, you had mentioned that you are living alone for the first time, especially since the passing of your wife, so let’s start there.
Bob Ginsberg 03:27
Well, you know, my story is not unlike a lot of people. I mean, I grew up in New York, Brooklyn, New York and after I got married and moved out to a suburb, you know, Long Island but I was living a very materialistic, you know, life I had, you know, three kids and the big house and the big mortgage and the cars and the toys. And, you know, I viewed you know, the, the main goal in life was to, you know, to make money and get caught up in that trap. And of course, we all know that life can change in an instant. And it did, you know, fast forward. And I spent many years after my daughter passed and some pretty deep throes of grief, as many can relate to, I really didn’t find any meaning and purpose and, you know, in life, I just wanted to go away. For me, I was kind of obsessed, you might call it with finding out if it was possible that my daughter still survived in some form. You know, logic told me that that was just fantasy and that wasn’t, you know, possible. However, what was put before me told another story. I mean, I you know, without getting too much involved, you know, when the morning of the accident in which my daughter and son were involved in, my wife friend woke up at three o’clock in the morning and she sat up In bed, she was waiting. She was trembling, and she was beside herself. And I said, What’s the matter? And she said, something horrible is gonna happen today. And I said, what does that mean? You know, what can you tell me more, you know, and she said, I can only tell you that it’s going to be utterly devastating, something that you know, today. And so, I did what most parents would do when I checked on, you know, my three children throughout the day, my, my middle daughter was already at college, she just started her college career, my son, we had the SUV all packed up the next morning, I was taking him back to his college in my youngest, Bailey, she was working one last day, in a part time job before returning to high school the next day. And, you know, at the end of the day, everything was fine, I let my guard down, it faded from my awareness, we were all out to dinner, we have two cars, Fran, and I wanted to stop for some essentials, and my son and daughter left in another car, and then coming home, we came upon an accident. And then worst fears were realized when, when they were involved in an accident, my daughter didn’t survive the injuries, my son was seriously injured and airlifted to a hospital with with with brain injuries. And then eventually, when it became clear that my son was going to recover, I started to think like, how is that possible? I had a friend No, because she knew what I was, you know, she was trembling, you know, and, and that led me what I needed was the science end of it, I started traveling all over the country and meeting with medical doctors and scientists that studied consciousness, you know, trying to figure it out. I fought the notion, you know, I was so caught up in my grief that I, I just, I kept having these extraordinary experiences, and all this knowledge put before me, and I refuse to accept it. Until, you know, one day I relented under the weight of all the evidence, and that enabled me to find some meaning and purpose in my life. And you know, of course, that grew and mushrooms and all that. Now, recently, as you mentioned, you know, my wife passed in September. And that put me to the, to the test, you know, once it’s been, you know, my daughter passed in 2002, you know, my, my wife just passed. And its sort of half and half, I have to reinforce everything that I that I thought that I knew, and because we’re human, and despite what you know, grief takes over and all over again. As you mentioned, I you know, in dealing with the grief, it was a little bit unusual, because I realized that I’ve never lived alone in my whole life. You know, I lived with my parents until I went to college. In college, I had roommates all the time, I got married pretty much right after college, you know, and then we live together, live together with my wife for 46 years. And you know, then now, you know, so I said, wow, that’s here I am, you know, living alone, something that many, many people do, but it was foreign to me. So, I was dealing with a complete overhaul, you know, in lifestyle, in addition to, you know, all the feelings and all the emotion. I think that, for me, and for many others, the knowledge that our loved ones still survive in some form is in fact, a form of grief therapy. You know, I mean, to me, there was nothing else than anybody could possibly say, that would give me any hope and comfort, but the knowledge that, you know, my daughter and my wife, you know, still exist, enable me to to keep going not to suggest that it’s magic pill, you know, for grief. I mean, that notion is absurd. But I think that such a belief allows you to when you reach those, those deep chasms of despair, you know, it allows you to dig out. So wait a second, I’ve experienced these signs and communications, I know about all this stuff, I’ve read all the research, that can’t be all by coincidence, you know, that, you know, you reaches a point where, you know, we start with some vague hope, and that becomes some belief and then ultimately, some inner knowing, you know, and that inner knowing, I think, is a very valuable piece of the puzzle, you know, in recovering, you know, from grief. So, that’s a long-winded answer to to a short question that you asked, but that you know that that’s sort of where I am today.
Victoria Volk 09:33
That’s an incredible story and thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry for the loss of your daughter and know your your wife and I can’t help but think too, I can’t imagine what that belief system if we pass that on to our children, what that might do for their grief to you know, this understanding if they like for me personally. When my dad passed away when I was eight, I didn’t have this there wasn’t the communication In about faith or religion or that spirituality more so, yeah, that that’s possible that I could have talked to my dad or, you know, I saw him be put in the ground. And I thought, well, that’s what happens when you die. And there’s nothing else like, that’s what happens. And then I was angry at God to write because I was still little, and I was still going to Sunday school and Jesus loves you. Well, Jesus, who loves you, why would he do this? Why would he take my dad, you know, and so there, there was a lot of missed opportunity for people to communicate that with me, and what a difference I think that could have made and Mike reef, that it would have been okay to have that communication, even if he wasn’t there. And I’m really curious to what were you doing in your life at the time that you kind of dropped whatever you were doing, and just looked for research and experts and things like that? And also too, I have another question on top of that was your wife on board with you on that?
Bob Ginsberg 11:09
Well, she was more than on board. She, she, you know, she was my lifeline because she had all of these intuitive experiences and this deeper spiritual knowledge, not religious knowledge, but spiritual knowledge. And I was sort of living vicariously through her because one thing that I knew in all of our many, many years together, she never ever lied to me not once. So, I trusted everything implicitly, of what she told me. And so I was, I was elated when she would have all these experiences. I mean, I crave to have them too, and I wasn’t getting them. But she did. And that helped me get through. When we formed the foundation. I’m in sort of a mixture between science and spirituality, I was the science, and she was the spirituality and what we found as many people will found even many of today’s physicist is that they’re not as as different as they might appear. You know, the physicists are sounding more like spiritualist, you know, today, because of finding out things that the ancients once knew, and we’re rediscovering. But to answer your question, yeah, these things have never crossed my mind. I mean, I was, I had I was in the corporate world, I was, I had an insurance agency for many, many years. You know, everything, you know, when you’re stripped down, you have a loss, like losing a child, you’re stripped down to nothingness, not and material things, lost all of its appeal, and I couldn’t care less you know about it, I was fortunate that I had some people and employees that picked up the ball. And, you know, I just told him, I’m not available, you know, I don’t care what happens, do the best he can, you know, so I gave that up pretty much as you know, I can try to at least call in and keep a hand in some things. But I did just what I said, I just just kept reading was my, my, I SafePlace. And it just kept reading books and reading books and reading books. And then I would get on planes. And I literally would go and set up meetings with scientists and I participant participated in research. And that was helpful to me, you know, because I was saying, well, you know, you can question yourself, Am I get crazy that this really happened and my just deluding myself is that a product of my grave. But here I had all these people that from Harvard and Yale, and you know, with medical degrees, and you know, substantial people that had bodies of research, mostly unknown to the public, but yet, you know, they existed. So that, that helped me a lot. You know, when I talk to people now, I’ll readily admit that, you know, now we have this foundation that you mentioned, and we have, you know, well over 11,000 members, you know, across the world, and we’ve been fortunate to help a lot of, of the bereaved, but I didn’t get into it. For any altruistic reason to help others, I was just looking for a way to survive myself, you know, and that was my motivation. That morphed over the years and then I found that the only thing that gave me any comfort or any hope or any pleasure was being able to, to help others but it certainly wasn’t like most people, as you can relate in most of your listeners. I was just finding a way to in you know, for me to navigate the rest of my life, not necessarily to you know, to help others. But as as you found and as many people find, is that you know, very often trauma loss is a trigger to exploration and you reevaluate everything you know, when your wife and suddenly you know, helping other people or seeing other people get some relief. is a is a therapy is a therapy for yourself. Yeah. And so so that’s pretty much it. It’s been our lives both of our life since 2004, you know, when we started the foundation? And was it always amazes me that the thirst I could I relate it to something that you just said is that before we started the foundation friend, and I would go to a support group made up of parents who was children. And we walked in there, you know, we were mortified, because exactly what you just said, there were people that were religious all their lives, and the stuff we heard coming out of their mouths, you know, blank God, you know, I was taught that if I did this than I did that night, that this, I would be taken care of, you know, and it was false promises, and there was so angry, you know, and that struck me, you know, we are under the, you know, false illusions and pretenses when it comes to, you know, promises, you know, and rules and dogma control and so forth. But, so, I always, I always kept that in mind. I mean, I think that, at its core, you know, religion and spirituality are, are the same, they come out of compassion and love, except that spirituality doesn’t have any of the rules attached to it, you know, it’s more of a coming from within. I know that, you know, organized religion, many times they, the leaders of organized religion came out of ages of mysticism where communing with your ancestors was a given. And it was understood and all these things that the religion now forbids, you know, it’s okay for them to do you know, but not for us, you know, I have a problem with that, you know, I think we’re all meant to, to be connected, you know, to the, to the greater whole. So, so for me, that portion of it was very, very important. I know that traditional brief therapy, and many mental health professionals will counsel their patients to separate from the wise and separate from their loved one, they’ll prescribe medications, you know, and so forth to help with that. I like the other approach, where embrace it, continue a relationship with your loved one, it’s not the same kind of relationship, obviously, we can’t touch them, and we can’t hug them. And we can’t kiss them although and dream visitation, sometimes we can. But, you know, you mentioned you know, losing your parents at the age of eight, my grandson who’s seven now, you know, he was six and friend got sick, he spent six months with us, because we did home hospice, you know, and he was involved, and he would try to do healing. And, you know, and, you know, now we explained to him that, you know, that, that my wife is now still is around, but she’s just in the invisible world, you know, she’s still there, we just can’t always see her. And she, he accepts that. And he finds that, you know, comforting and he’s, you know, obviously, with the work that that I do, I mean, he’s, he’s exposed to all this kind of stuff, and it doesn’t find anything unnatural about it, he hasn’t been taught these things, and that can’t be real. And he makes no judgment. He just takes things at face value for what they are. And I think that if we, as you touched upon this, if we can educate our, our children, if they all of a sudden describe having this dream, you know, where grandma appeared, or having or even described, having a hearing go voice or a conversation, instead of rushing them out to a psychologist, talk about it, you know, get their feelings stolen. There’s nothing wrong with that, how lucky they are, you know, and maybe we would all be better for it.
Victoria Volk 18:52
Oh, absolutely. Agree. I absolutely agree. Can you describe some of those experience that you personally had?
Bob Ginsberg 18:59
Well, you know, I, for me, I’ll preface it by saying that, you know, if you don’t believe these things are possible. You’re not going to recognize any any things that happen. You have to be Altru, you know, for me, was the science part of it that opened me up to get, you know, direct personal experiences. But after my daughter passed, I was very fortunate in the fact that I had probably over the course of the five to six years I had 75 dream visitations from her, and I journaled each and every one and I and I would define a dream visitation as being separate from a so-called ordinary dream. Ordinary dreams tend to be disjointed and fragmented and kind of all over the place and might appear to make much sense in a visitation dream. And the theory behind that is that our loved ones in spirit are these entities of energy and, and they find a conduit to get through to us when our monkey mind, so to speak, is at rest during the REM stage. And during these dream visitations, I mean, I could hug my daughter and I could talk to her. And I could tell her how much I loved her, and I could smell her and all this stuff. And that, that kept me going. And I knew enough to write each one down. Because every time I felt really horrible, I pick up my journal and read all of these, you know, and they were, you know, brought me back to life, so to speak. But we had, you know, incredible experiences on what I found. After my daughter passed, my, my wife, friend, and my other daughter went on the computer in her room, and they found all of these writings and essays and poetry that she had written. We never knew about and most of it had to do with what happens after we die. Which raises the question of, you know, what, do certain children have an inner knowing that their lives may be cut short, her best friend, my daughter’s best friend told us that when they were both 12 years old, my daughter made her friend enter into a pact with her. And the pact was if one of them that were to die before the other, they would leave a sign for the other ones, that the other one would know that they still existed, you know, how many 12 year olds make a pact like that, you know, she wrote poetry short, this beautiful poem called The Wonder awaits talking about what happens, you know, after we die, and that how she was going to come back and let us know, which, by the way, after reading all those things, we felt compelled to start the foundation. But, you know, there is some evidence that something that some of us, you know, have this knowing, somehow, you know, that, that things will, you know, we won’t have a long time, you know, on this earth, by the way, in that incident that I just mentioned, the path that you made with a friend. After my daughter’s funeral, I didn’t even know this friend never told me about this to later on. But my daughter’s best friend came over our house and told Fran about the pact and then and Bailey’s. My daughter Bailey’s pact was that she was going to take a Blue Magic Marker Pen, and she was going to put it in unusual place. And when my daughter’s best friend returned to her home, she walked into her room and then neatly placed on her computer keyboard was a was a Blue Magic Marker. And she said that she didn’t know anyone. And she certainly had not been using one like for years. And so, she had no idea how it was there. And then she went around to all the other members of the household and asked if anybody had been in a room and everybody said no, of course. Did I dismiss this? Yes. You know, I mean, Fran didn’t but i did i just okay, that’s that’s an amazing coincidence. What a coincidence. But these things just started happening and happening and happening and happening. You know, I don’t know, I don’t really have, I don’t imagine we have time for me to get into some, but some of them, I would write down every experience. And I even sought out the help of a statistician that shows you how sick left minded I was to calculate the odds of each one of these things occurring. And when I reached 20, experiences that had odds against chance of a million to one each, then I relented because I had the evidence. This has to be true; you can’t have 20 million to one shot, you know, you can no longer explain them away. And so, we’ve had experiences like that. Right now. There’s such a thing called Electronic Voice Phenomena, something that you know, 99% of people have never heard of, but what happens is that people this has been going on for decades. But you know, people take recording devices back in the day they were these reel-to-reel things and now they’re digital recorders on their phones. And they sent an attention to talk to their loved one and they turn on the recorder 20 seconds. And then they turn off the recorder and then they play it back. Sometimes not often. Sometimes people experiment with it for months or even years before they start getting voices. But sometimes you get the the imprint of voices onto the recorder. We have a friend of ours was a close friend of France and she’s been experimenting with Electronic Voice Phenomena for many, many years. So we have to Fran pass, she would set up seven she’d write down seven or eight questions that she wanted to ask Fran and in spirit to answer and then Janet would send me the recordings back when there was something appeared. And one of them she said Fran, what is the name of the organization that you found it and then on a tape you hear from Forever Family Foundation. So these things are really interesting because this tangible evidence does a recording, you know, and if you can rule out fraud, or other external factors, it’s pretty compelling. You know, we don’t know how it’s possible, but yet to find a way to make this imprint, so there are things, you know, people learn about end of life experiences, you know, and having deathbed visions, you know, near death experiences, you know, reincarnation evidence mediumship, you mentioned, you know, having surgery on there, there are certain people, you know, in my book that you mentioned, the meaning of explosion, like, kind of went out on a whim. And I said that, based upon my experience all these years, that 85 to 90% of the mediums that are practicing today can’t do what they claim, you know, which ruffled a few feathers, but I, you know, my data, and my observations are that it’s true, not all of them are fraudulent, some of them are, but many are just have some degree of intuitive ability, which we all do to various degrees, and, and, you know, they, somebody tells them all, you should go out and be a medium next thing, you know, they’re charging a lot of money in the sitting with very fragile people that are in horrible grief. And that bothers me. So, you know, that’s why we test these these mediums, and that’s why, you know, I put that stuff down on the book, but these are ways in which people can keep in touch, you know, with their loved ones, we try to counsel people to try to do these guarantees altered states of conscious consciousness through meditation, or whatever music or art or whatever nature, you know, and try to fluster, you know, direct, you know, communication, you know, I once did a survey amongst, you know, a membership, and I asked, if you had the choice, would you rather receive a communication from your deceased loved one directly, or through a medium. And I fully expected the overwhelming majority to say directly, but it was the opposite. Most people said, through a medium, which I thought was odd. And then I started probing, and then I realized why because people always question the, you know, the voices or the information that they get, you know, they imagining it, whereas, if they’re going through a third party, a professional, so to speak, then they could trust the information. There are also people that are fearful of, of nonphysical things, you know, because they’re taught that way, you know, either through the media or their family or their religion, or so forth. And so there’s a fear factor involved with things that can’t be explained. So, they would rather get it from from somebody else. So that, you know, that surprised me.
Victoria Volk 27:57
Well, look at your own example, your life example, right? You set out on a mission to prove to yourself that this was possible. Right?
Bob Ginsberg 28:08
Right.
Victoria Volk 28:09
I’m surprised you didn’t know the answer to that, because of your own experience.
Bob Ginsberg 28:13
Yeah. And and, you know, we find all the time is that my experience is that people who believe in an afterlife, or people believe that we’ve called survival of consciousness, appear to do better in their grief than those who don’t. There are many people that I’ve noticed over the years, and I don’t have to tell you, because you well versed in this, but you know, they become defined by their grief. And the notion to that to these people, if you suggest that their loved one still survives, in some form, they interpret that as an affront is an insult to their, like, a diminishes the depth of their grief. And I understand it, and there are people that and we don’t try to convince anybody, we just tell people what we know, and what we’ve learned, and people make their own choices, you know, we hold these grief retreats, and one of which was was featured in that Netflix documentary that you mentioned, and we just had we just finished up one, two weeks ago, you know, in July, in Connecticut, and we see it time and time again, there are people that leave on Sunday night in with much more clarity and hope and comfort than when they arrived. You know, there are people that arrive in such throes of grief that they can’t even smile, I can’t laugh, they can’t do anything. And there’s a lightness, you know, to it at the end. And we attribute that to, you know, to the the the knowledge that they gained and the question is though does it doesn’t last, you know, and so we try to keep in touch and follow up and see because now you’re you’re on this high. It’s like Gone For a medium reading, you’re on this immediate high, you know, you’re, it’s wonderful. And then you go back in the real world, so to speak, and talk to your friends and your colleagues and family, and they kind of poopoo it, you know, you know, I hate when they say, but, but if it makes you feel better, you know, so I think that this is a real, some of the business, there’s been some clinical research, you know, that shows that belief in survival consciousness has a positive effect on one’s greed. Brief, it’s backed up, you know, by science. And, you know, we, we really believe that that’s why we continue in that work.
Victoria Volk 30:41
I would love to include in the show notes, a resource that you have, that people can go to and read for themselves, if you’re willing to share after, after we record.
Bob Ginsberg 30:51
Yeah, also, I mentioned on our website, you know, Forever Family foundation.org, we listed by category, all the better books on the subject that we bring people, you know, grief and loss, and, you know, science and mediumship, and so forth. So there’s a complete resource on there that people can refer to, you know, there’s a medical doctor that we are associated with, he’s on our board, his name is Dr. Pol, Calvary, Paris, SETI. And it’s interesting, he’s a Italian born, and he’s lived in Scotland for the past 20 years. So he’s a purebred Italian and speaks with a Scottish accent. I’m always fascinated to talk to him. But he, he wrote this book, which is based on cognitive behavior therapy, and called Love knows no grief. And love knows no death, I’m forgetting already, my, I’m getting old. But in any event, it’s on our website, and it’s a workbook. So, he he also to go along with the material produced 26 different videos that go, we have to read the chapter, you watch the video. And his theory is that if you change the way that you think about death, you can make real progress, you know, in the way that you navigate your physical lives. And, and that’s been very helpful to a lot of people. And that book, a link to that book is also on our website.
Victoria Volk 32:20
And I absolutely agree with that, because it also shifts your perspective and changes your feelings about your grief. Right? Yeah, I absolutely 100% agree with that. So, what has your grief taught you? I mean, aside from this deeper connection that you’ve developed, based on scientific research first, and then just your personal experiences, what else has grief taught you?
Bob Ginsberg 32:48
Some more things, probably obvious that many people can relate to. It taught me the elusive nature of life, and that to take nothing for granted, you know, just absolutely nothing. I mean, I don’t I don’t plan for the future anymore. I mean, obviously, you know, running a foundation, I have to do certain planning, and you know, but I’m retired from my, my regular work, and I just, I take things as they come, I try to step back, and, you know, just experience instead of interpret and reason, try to engage in rational thinking, I think, sometimes that holds us back, you know, it’s, I use the example. I mean, you watch somebody in the street, or on Facebook, and constantly have some sort of experience, and that can’t, they can’t take pictures fast enough, they have to document that, you know, I don’t see the need for that I may see something glorious, you know, but I will just enjoy the experience, you know, and I don’t feel the need to document it, you know, you know, for somebody else.
Victoria Volk 33:56
That’s me. Yeah. You just called me out without doing
Bob Ginsberg 34:01
well, you know, seeing but you know, between the dots, you know, listen, when you’ve lost somebody close, you want to find some meaning and purpose, because it doesn’t make sense. Otherwise, what’s the purpose of life? We live in a, in a chaotic, chaotic world? You know, what’s, what’s the point? You know, I mean, if we are extinguished forever, and two generations later, nobody even knows that we existed. I mean, why? Why? What’s the purpose? I have my own theory on that. I mean, I think that we do live in a world that’s random, or at least it appears random. I mean, I don’t agree with a lot of spiritual thinkers that say that. Nothing. Everything happens for a reason, you know, and there are no coincidences. I don’t believe that. I believe that. Sure. There are coincidences, you know, there are many synchronicities that aren’t coincidences. They just appear to be but you know, things happen all the time freewill, you know, I decided to do this a step out here, whatever and get hit by a truck, things are going to happen, you know, I’m able now to think that this physical life is just a little tiny blip of a continuum of life. I’m not fearful, you know, of death, sometimes I even welcome it, you know, but I, because I realized that, once again, as a, as a great shaman, or once read a book from a shaman, he says, you know, physical life is like being at a football game. If you’re sitting, you know, the 70,000 people in the stadium, and if you’re sitting at ground level, in the first row, you could hear all the grunts and, and the sounds and, and see all the chaos and the violence and so forth, and disorganization, you know, but when you move up to the very, very top row, all the way at the top of the stadium, you see all the patterns and all the organization, you know, and there’s the meaning behind all the all the different plays. And I thought that always stuck with me, because, you know, I think that after we transition and lose our physical bodies, and with this entity of pure consciousness, we see all the all of the, the the patterns that appeared to us as being random, you know, and then they make sense, but we can’t make sense of it while we’re here, you know, and then after somebody dies, we have no choice, but what are our choices, we have to continue on, figure out a new way to reinvent ourselves, figure out a new way to navigate this new life that was thrust upon us that life that we never wanted or imagined. And, and go on from there. I mean, that’s, you know, there’s no choice. So, I mean, I try to now look at things and find some, some reasons, and I try to experience more, I try to do things, I don’t do things that I don’t feel like doing, I only do things that I that I enjoy. I, I took up golf, again, you know, for I hadn’t played in 20 years, I go out and play golf. To me, that’s meditation. I’m the only guy in the club that plays alone. That’s the way I want it. I, you know, I just, you know, I can talk to myself, I could talk to my loved ones while playing I enjoy all the the nature and to me, that’s my meditation, we all need to find some sort of, of an outlet to clear our heads, you know, and to get closer to what we’re meant to be. And maybe our purpose in life, people always asking the deep questions, what’s the purpose of life, maybe the purpose of life is just to recognize that there’s more beyond you know, that this is this is one step life can be very cruel, it could be there’s a lot of suffering that goes on, there’s nobody that’s making us suffer, it just shit happens, you know, and, and that will move to the next phase eventually, and, and we’ll go from there and move closer to so called enlightenment. I don’t particularly like that term but gain more clarity and always have no more experiences.
Victoria Volk 38:19
I like that analogy with the football stadium. Because I think in grief itself, if we can be more of an observer, and just kind of look at our lives and our patterns of how our grief has shown up throughout the different phases of our lives, because it’s not always just in all these interviews and conversations I’ve had with Grievers. It’s never just one loss. Even if it’s not the death of a loved one, there’s been things that have happened or occurred in people’s lives that they don’t think is grief necessarily at the time. But in hindsight, if you can be the observer, you’ll see the patterns kind of repeating and how you responded to the grief and how you’re continuing to respond to it. So, I love that analogy. So in talking about the loss of your wife now, because you said you’re living alone for the very first time, and and I’m also curious how well let’s go back to your daughter passing because I’m curious with the surviving children, was that what you were going through and experiencing and trying to, you know, with the research and all of that, were the children involved in that process, too. And, and how do you think that has served them in their grief?
Bob Ginsberg 39:33
Yeah, I, my, my daughter, my middle daughter, she is totally on board with all this stuff. And you know, and she was very helpful to both Fran and myself and still remains, you know, so so she’s, you know, very much into the work that we do. My son was, it’s hard to gauge you know, he has no memory of the X He was driving the car. And you know, and I think it’s sort of a blessing that he doesn’t remember anything. But he is also supportive. You know, he’s, he wants to believe he’s on board, he never says anything negative about, you know, any of the work that we do, you know, he can, he’ll help in any way. So, I think it’s helpful to them as it is to, you know, to, to most people to, you know, this work and, you know, and, and I, you know, I share with them things that happen, you know, and they share with me, interestingly enough, my, my son tells me, I mean, he’s 38 Now, but he tells me that he never had a dream. And of course, I know, he must dream, but he never remembers a trade. With design. I never met anybody that never remembered any dream, you know, but so he was he sort of detached in that sense, you know, and he’s a quiet, shy guy, but he, I think he find some comfort, I also think that they want to support me, you know, so they, you know, so part of it is to, is to help me out, but I always remain aware of, they suffered a loss just the way I did, you know, they lost their sister, and they lost their mom, so I can’t put myself in their shoes, they have totally different emotions that we haven’t, you know, when we run these grief retreats, we, sometimes we go into breakouts, because we know that, I mean, grief is grief, but everybody experiences it in a different way. And people that have lost a child may have certain sets of things that they deal with, unlike people that have lost a parent, unlike people that have lost, you know, a sibling, and, you know, some people who was by suicide, so we try to have these discussion groups just so people could share their feelings and how, you know, maybe they’re not as unique as you think, you know, they’re common to the group. But it’s so true, even in the work that you do with Grief Recovery. I mean, you’re well aware of that. I mean, grief is not the same for everybody. Right?
Victoria Volk 42:11
Right. And there’s no hierarchy of grief. You know, everyone experiences it at 100% There’s no half Grievers, you know, out in the world.
Bob Ginsberg 42:21
That’s true, and never thought of it that way. It’s like being half pregnant, right?
Victoria Volk 42:25
Yeah. Right. So what gives you hope for the future and you know, now now kind of navigating life alone? Like how was how how do you keep your spirits up and not let yourself slip into that? Because you know, what, you know, it’s hard to unknow what you know, and what you know, is and you had shared this is that you welcome death sometimes, for obvious reasons, you know, but how do you keep yourself from not slipping too far down that slope?
Bob Ginsberg 43:06
Well, I you know, for me, I find that keeping busy I do better when I’m busy than when I’m not you know, because when I’m busy I’m not thinking about it constantly, you know, whereas you know, I was never and even when I’m not busy during the day obviously with the foundation of you know, there’s tons of work that I could do and I i do it until I don’t feel like doing it anymore and then I stopped you know and then you know and then when I feel like it again I’ll do it again I don’t feel pressure to just you know everything you know can wait you know my wife was never like that. Oddly enough she was 24/7 constantly one of my big challenges was trying to get her to you know to take to take a break I do that now. I was never a huge TV watcher simply because we were always working but now I binge watch these shows you know on Netflix and Amazon all these things like kind of like through path tonight and I’m not much of a sleeper That to me is helpful because while I’m watching all these interesting you know series not thinking about how sad I am you know and that to me is helpful so when I want to when I find in how do I I still listen it’s a common It bothers me somewhat you know because after doing the having the foundation for so many years and you know people knowing my story and blah blah blah and I get comments while you must be doing you know great because you know that you know friends still exist and you must be getting signs like crazy and I’m still human I you know, I’m like just like everybody else you know, I I dig myself out from for me, going over in my mind, my experiences and what I know you No. And maybe it’ll take me picking up a book I haven’t read in, you know, in 15 years, or just to reinforce, or I have enough tools in my bag to try to get myself on the right track again, I’m still gonna fall off the track, I fall off the track every day, I’m able to get myself back on, but that’s the key. You know, there are people that are not as fortunate and they’re off the track and forever, you know, and they can’t get back on. So having these other outlets and these other opportunities and these other resources to guide you, I think are important. So that’s pretty much what my life is now. And I probably work harder now than I ever did before. You know, before I used to goof off a lot, but now it’s therapeutic. So I just, you know, keep keep doing the work.
Victoria Volk 45:49
There’s two words that you said that I’m going to share with you. Have you read the Grief Recovery handbook?
Bob Ginsberg 45:56
I have? I have not no.
Victoria Volk 45:59
Okay. You’re an avid reader, from what I gather. Yeah, I would encourage you to read that book, The Grief Recovery handbook. But there’s two words that you shared that I want to highlight. Because I think it’s important for listeners to hear and so that you said you you keep busy. And that happens to be one of the myths of grief. Because that’s what we do, right when we in. So, the question ask yourself really is, Am I doing this to avoid what I’m feeling at this time. Because if it is, then that’s not addressing or looking at your feelings and in in what’s going on emotionally. And maybe there’s something emotionally incomplete there. And that’s where you do have the knowledge of, well, you can still communicate with with your wife, and you can still communicate with your daughter. But I just wanted to bring that up. Because I think it’s so important that it is really easy to get caught up in the rat race of life and trying to distract ourselves. When we are having a tough time or a bad day or, or whatever. At recently, I found myself doing that too. I got a lot done. But I recognize knowing what I know, because I can’t unknow what I know. Right? I have an awareness now. Oh, that’s me keeping busy. Yeah, that’s me trying to avoid, you know. And so, it’s then addressing Well, there’s my clue, there’s my sign that I have something I need to, to address there. And so, I just I encourage you to read that book, it might bring to light something for you, that would be helpful.
Bob Ginsberg 47:40
Yeah, I can relate to that. I mean, I mean, I think subconsciously, I know that when I’m engaged in all these things, like even the binge watching, you know, TV, that it’s, it’s an attempt to avoid the pain, you know, rather than to embrace it, you know, temporary fix.
Victoria Volk 48:04
And you also bring up another good point, and that sometimes helpers need help too. Not that, just because we know what we know, doesn’t mean with like you said, we’re not that we’re not human, we’re still human and still have those same challenges that other people have. True? Yeah. So what gives you the most hope for the future? And what gives you joy today?
Bob Ginsberg 48:30
Well, you know, we we end every radio show with the same slogan, you know, and that is, you know, your loved ones are only a heartbeat away in science is going to prove it. I’m kind of rethinking that whole thing. Because the more and more that I learn, I’m starting to realize that we’re not going to change worldview about death, I don’t think by the science, although it’s possible, but it’s by people sharing their experiences. And and I think we live in a society now where people have this profound kind of experiences and after death communications, and they’re very reluctant, reluctant to share them with their friends or their family or their colleagues, colleagues for fear of being judged or ridiculed and labeled. And so, it’s my hope that and what we try to do is just to, I’m not talking about you don’t have to go run into the office and make an announcement and lecture people, I mean, just have enough, be brave enough just to share it with people whether or not you know, their beliefs. And when more and more and more people share. It’ll become more mainstream people will be more open to the ideas and maybe maybe will grieve less, you know, you know, as a whole. So, I mean, I, I hope to see a time where we all you know, share a lot more I hope, but like everybody else, even though I do work to receive more communications because they that they, they’re always reinforcing, you know, you know, like when they happen. And, you know, most of all, I just want to continue to engage, you know, with others and tell them what I have learned and share experiences and promote this general feeling that we’re more than our physical bodies, you know, we think of ourselves as a brain, a brain is who we are, when the brain goes, What could possibly survive, you know, you’re buried in the ground or cremated. But if we think that the, this is just a shell, and that our true self, you know, can continues after we shed the shell, you know, I think we’ll all be a lot better off and then we’ll be able to live our lives with some more meaning and purpose. So, for me, that it’s a constant search for meaning and purpose, you know, because the randomness gets to me every once in a while and have to step back and try and figure out why we’re here and realize that you know, where we’re going and the broader picture than this finite little chunk in history.
Victoria Volk 51:13
Yeah. And the surviving death series really sparked something in me. And you know, that’s when I had Dr. Chris Kerr Quran and had Siri on. And I actually ended up doing an end of life doula certification, out this prompt, you know, I had been doing home health care work in the past, but it was kind of this thing I was kind of, like shutting down within myself, you know, like I, because I feel like I’ve deep compassion to sit with people at their last days of their life, because I was a CNA to and high school certified nursing assistant in a nursing home, you know, and so it’s like, I’ve been doing this work for a long time, but it just didn’t. I kind of like shut was shutting myself off from that. And I think I missed out on probably a lot of experiences that could have helped me, maybe spiritually evolve. Earlier in my life, had I embraced that ability or that gift of empathy. I had a point here was I going with it?
Bob Ginsberg 52:22
I think that’s very commendable, what you’re doing, I mean, and we can learn, I mean, knowing what now what, you know, if you sit with somebody that’s in the dying process, you can understand and appreciate some of the things that are going on, you know, and take them to, you know, the pure experience for what it is, people, it’s my belief that every single person as they’re passing, and, you know, it could be hours or a week before they pass, get visitations or escorts, you know, to the other side, and they may not be able to communicate it because of them mental or physical state, but nonetheless, they have these and that’s wonderfully uplifting, you know, to think that we all have somebody to help us, you know, make, you know, I’ll tell you just a quick, it’s kind of a humorous story. When my mother was was my mother passed a couple years ago, and we were all sitting with her, and she was in the recliner. And we had a semi circle of chairs in front of her and all of a sudden, she was looking at an empty chair directly in front of her and she screamed out, you know, mama, mama, and I knew she was seeing her mother. And, of course, everybody else in the room, you know, they didn’t know they thought she was hallucinating. But Fran, and I know. And then my father walked out from the other room, and he saw the empty chair. So, he went over, and he sat in the empty chair, my mother is sick as she was started yelling, Get up, you know, get up, he had no idea. He sat on his mother-in-law. My poor dad, you know, he’s like, what? But but, you know, see, that’s something that I ordinarily, I would, you know, you just would attribute to somebody a dying brain and hallucinations, but it’s not there, you know, hundreds and 1000s of reports of this going on. But nobody talks about it. Your guest, you know, Christopher, Kurt talked about it because he sees it every day, you know, in hospice. And that’s even how, as he probably told you, that’s how the medical personnel knows when somebody is about to cross over. So, I think would be comforting if people knew about you know, these things, and most people don’t.
Victoria Volk 54:35
Or just be open to the possibility, right? There’s hope in that. I was thinking back as you said, your slogan for your radio show, and I was thinking back to an interview. Actually, it just went live not that long ago, and her experience was, you know, she had her boyfriend at the time had been in a terrible car accident and pardon me. It was her husband when her husband passed away. You know, she said she had young child At the time, and she said, You know, I hear your heartbeat, but you’re already gone, you know, he was considered brain dead. And I think back to that conversation, and I’m thinking, Gosh, I don’t know what her belief system is, but just in that instance alone, to feel like, they’re gone, but they’re not really, you know, if you can believe that, you can still have this continuation of a relationship and in Grief Recovery, that’s what we say, it’s, it’s a continuation of the relationship, it continues on whether you like it or not, it’s because you, you, you’re emotionally invested in that person that, you know, whether it was a less than loving relationship, or it was really loving, right, that, that there is a continuation of that relationship, because people have an impact that they sometimes don’t even realize until just the impact of your daughter, right, the ripples of her sharing with her best friend and the poetry now, and that was your prompt to start the foundation, like the impact of her life? You know, and I guess we she doesn’t get to see it the way you do. But but she probably does. Right, in the spirit realm.
Bob Ginsberg 56:15
Yeah, you know, I, I used to bristle when people said, well, you know, that, you know, her, her death had had meaning because, look, look what it spawned, you know, because now, you know, you’ve built this whole thing I used to, you know, not really buy into that. But as the years went by, maybe that was part of the of the plan, you know, who am I to say that it wasn’t? I mean, I’m, I’m a totally different person than I was 20 years ago, you know, so.
Victoria Volk 56:44
Longer it changes us? Absolutely. But it’s the impact of her life. Is there anything else you would like to share?
Bob Ginsberg 56:53
No, I just, you know, I appreciate the work that you do. And, you know, in Grief Recovery, I think that we all need, we all need a way, you know, we need a way to dig out, you know, from where we are, you know, and this, there’s a lot of help. And there are a lot of resources. And I appreciate everybody in the field that approach it from all different perspectives, some perspectives I agree with, and some might don’t, but nonetheless, different things are helpful to different people.
Victoria Volk 57:25
So, Fran was very much your co creator of the foundation, what do you think if she were on here with you? What do you think she would want to share with Grievers?
Bob Ginsberg 57:35
I think that there would be nothing extraordinary, she just, you know, would encourage people to be open, you know, there’s nothing wrong with being an open-minded skeptic, you know, it’s a problem when you’re a closed minded skeptic, and you just dismiss everything. You know, I mean, there was a scientist at once said, I wouldn’t believe in this stuff, even if it was true, you know. So, I mean, you know, it’s a form of scientism, you know, and just experience, don’t judge and remain open. And, you know, that’s what, that’s all you could do. I think that before you dismiss the stories that you hear, and these books that you read, do your own personal research and do your own investigations and talk to as many people as you can. Because there, there is light on the other side, you know, what, we’re filled with this darkness, it’s almost complete darkness after we lose somebody and then gradually, light starts to seep in a little bit at a time, you know, and then you, you finally reach a point, well, hey, I, you know, I went, I went an hour without thinking of my loved one. And then all you know, I went a day, you know, and then before you know it, you know, maybe it went a few days. And, you know, it’s a gradual lightness and that only comes from this, this inner knowing based upon what you’ve learned their experience, I think she would encourage everybody to keep at it and just dismiss those who are closed and just pay attention to what you know, is true.
Victoria Volk 59:10
When, as you describe what, how she would probably express herself and what she’d want to say I thought of this analogy, I heard it recently to, I can’t remember where but, you know, when we go walk into a dark room, we don’t look for the for the we look for the light switch right? To turn on the light to bring in light to fill the room with light. We are never looking for a dark switch. Right? You know, so even on your darkest of days, it’s looking for the light switch. And I feel like that’s kind of Yeah, it is what you are on board with that. Would you like to share anything else about Fran?
Bob Ginsberg 59:50
No, I mean, she you know, I mean, I you know, I call myself co founder of the foundation, but she was the you know, the true you know, founder she she dragged me along for the ride you know, of course, now I wish I would have paid more attention, which kept saying things like, you need to learn this, you know, now and now I realize why I have to learn, you know everything about the inner workings but you know, to be done, I think that she was not i She was not afraid to die, you know, she wasn’t happy about it, but she was not afraid. Only because she felt there was so much more work to be done. But, you know, near the end, she I mean, she did suffer terribly. And she but she, she did have an experience, like we were talking about where she, her, her deceased aunt, who was she was very close with and helped raise her. She was having regular conversations with, you know, with her near the end. So, I think that she believed they know, she believed that she was destined for this work. I mean, this foundation work became her life, and there was nothing that was gonna stand in our way. And she, you know, she was driven to get the message out, she was driven to further research. It was driven to help the bereaved. And so, she left a mark. And I said, when the hospice nurse came near the end, and one day, and the nurse said, you have any questions? And I said, Yeah, trying to be joking, a little bit. So you know, what’s the meaning of life? You know, of course, that through or, you know, and she just looked into said, well, you know, shouldn’t if I was serious, and actually, that’s a very difficult question. And Fran, you know, as sick as she was, she just said, it’s not difficult at all, you know, the meaning of life is to leave this world a better place. And that was it. And that’s the way she lives in life.
Victoria Volk 1:01:46
I just, yeah, I’m getting emotional. I’m not sure why. That just really touched me so much. That I didn’t expect that. Yeah, that’s a beautiful message to end on today.
Bob Ginsberg 1:02:05
Its been a pleasure.
Victoria Volk 1:02:07
Yeah, thank you so much. It’s been my honor to have you as a guest and for you to share your story and about the foundation and the work that you’ve done and created for to help the bereaved. Where can people find you?
Bob Ginsberg 1:02:22
Well, the, the Foundation website is three words forever. Familyfoundation.org, just the way it sounds. I write a personal blog at beyondthefive senses.com. Put my thoughts down, and the book is called the medium explosion. Anybody interested in that? And that’s pretty much it. Anybody wants to email I’m always open my email is [email protected].
Victoria Volk 1:02:53
And are you on social media?
Bob Ginsberg 1:02:56
Yeah, I mean, I checked Facebook, I don’t do a lot with a bit on, you know, Facebook and LinkedIn and those kinds of things. But I’m a little bit of a dinosaur. So, I don’t always keep up with that.
Victoria Volk 1:03:06
Okay. Well, I will link to your website and all of those resources.
Bob Ginsberg 1:03:11
Yeah. If people want to become a member, it’s free of charge for adults.
Victoria Volk 1:03:15
Oh, amazing. Do you have a Facebook group then for your foundation?
Bob Ginsberg 1:03:20
There is. We have a person that handles that for us, but they can find it for Family Foundation page.
Victoria Volk 1:03:28
All right. Well, thank you so much again.
Bob Ginsberg 1:03:32
You’re welcome.
Victoria Volk 1:03:33
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love, from my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.
Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Pespective, Podcast |
Katie Carroll | The Best Things in Life Aren’t Planned
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Katie Carroll had her life mapped out from the time she was a little girl. She knew, from a young age, that she wanted to be a mother one day. However, as she found success in every other area of her life, there was one area of her life that hinged on her desire to be a mother.
She was busy in her career as a pediatric ER traveling nurse, had been dating, and all the while, looking for the one who would complete her life and be the father of her children. However, love wasn’t coming easily to her and by the time she was 36, she found herself in the deepest depression of her life and suffering from burnout from her life.
She had a lot of grief of what she wished would’ve been different, better, and more, and the grief of the loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations for what she thought her life was going to look like by the time she was 40.
As Katie found out, and you will also hear in this episode, the best things in life aren’t planned. And boy, do I have my own truth around this, too.
Katie shared in this week’s episode, “If you want God to laugh, tell Him your plans.”
We have free will, yes. But we get ourselves so wrapped around the axel of life when we try to plan every detail of our lives. Where is there room to be delighted and surprised, when we have so many expectations of what we want to happen?
Listen to this week’s episode and be inspired to see what’s already in front of you and perhaps to also allow yourself to be delighted and surprised by life’s unexpected gifts.
CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 0:08
This is Victoria of the Unleashedheart.com and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss as a 30 plus year griever and advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate grievers and non grievers alike, spread hope and inspire compassion toward those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with yours and this platform, grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather? Let’s get started. It’s another episode of grieving voices. And today my guest is Katie Carroll. She is the coach in scrubs. And she has been helping people heal from what ails them as a pediatric nurse for the last 21 years. And she is now helping single women learn how to love themselves exactly as they are today so that they can move forward in the direction of their dreams and hopes and goals. Katie is extremely passionate about empowering and educating women on learning how to fill their cups, so that they can not only pour into others, but so that they can also reap the benefits of having enough in their crops to pour into themselves. When she’s not working 12 hour nursing shift are working in her life coaching business, Katie can be found spending time with her fiance and playing cars, trucks and transformers with her beloved three nephews. Thank you for being here, coach and scrubs.
Katie Carroll 1:47
Oh, thank you, Victoria. Thank you for that beautiful intro. It like gave me chills, like just like hearing someone else say it is like that is me.
Victoria Volk 1:54
No it’s beautiful. So what brings you to be the coach and scrubs? So let’s start there.
Katie Carroll 2:01
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I’ve always loved helping people. And I am the firstborn, I have two younger brothers. And I started babysitting at the age of like 12. And I volunteered in high school at Children’s specialized hospital. And I’ve always been in that caregiver role. And so like you said, I’ve been a nurse for over 21 years now and pediatric nursing, and probably about the first 15 years of my career, I didn’t realize that, if I don’t take care of myself, then I’m no good to others around me. Because in nursing, and I always say this, when I’m speaking to nurses is that, you know, we dive headfirst into the deep end. You know, we go to nursing school, we study, we take the boards, we apply for a job, and then we jump right in, like we’re so excited to have that title of nurse and help. But we don’t realize that all of a sudden, it’s now years later. And we have forgotten about ourselves. We have forgotten to take care of ourselves physically, mentally and emotionally. And so I found myself in the deepest burnout and depression of my life about six, seven years ago while working in the pediatric emergency room. And funny enough, I went back to school to become a certified health coach, because on the outside, I just wanted to help more people. But that’s the hamster wheel that I was on was that let me go do something else to help more people and get another certification almost like something of worthiness so that I could help more people. But what I realized was that I actually went back for myself that I needed to learn how to help myself, Mind Body Spirit. And so when I started my business as a health coach, I call myself coach in scrubs because I thought it was cute being a nurse and coaching people and so it has stuck and here I am now you know still working full time as a pediatric nurse and also building my life coaching business on the side.
Victoria Volk 4:19
I love that are most of your clients then other people in healthcare?
Katie Carroll 4:24
You know, it’s funny that you say that Victoria I’ve had, I did a group coaching program where about half of them were nurses, but out of my one to one clients, none of them have been nurses. So it’s interesting that I do speak to a lot of nurses and I thrive in that community. But my clients, they’ve been all women and some have worked in health care in some fashion, but most of them were not in healthcare at all,
Victoria Volk 5:00
I’ve saw an ad not that long ago, I’m talking about because nurses, doctors, physicians, people in health care are just like everybody else, and are prone to the same risks and behaviors as everybody else, like addiction with alcohol and opioids and things like that. So I’m interested in learning your perspective on is, is it the burnout that leads to these things you think, you know, like, because in Grief Recovery, we talk about Serbs and like, addictions, can be a sturb, in order to we resort to these things to feel better for a short period of time. But of course, they don’t make us feel better. They make us feel shame, falling guilt and all these things after. And so it perpetuates the cycle of repetition, right. So yeah, what are your what is your perspective on that?
Katie Carroll 5:48
Yeah, I love that question, Victoria, because I’ve been speaking more about burnout as well. And you know, when I first started talking about the addictions that may be, can happen, I was embarrassed to talk about all of the wine that I used to drink a lot of wine. And I think I was embarrassed because you feel like you’re showing something to the world. And people may think that then you are less than or judge you or shame you. But what I have realized is that we are more alike than we are different and that other people are suffering. So when I do speak about it, now, I know that it could help one other person. And for me, I’ve never been a big drinker. Like, that’s always been the joke, you know, and I never liked beer, I always drank, you know, like a mixed drink at a party. And I always like to be in control. But when I was going through my deepest burnout, and depression, I was living alone, in my one bedroom apartment, and I was single. And I know that we have talked about this before, that my story was that I always thought my life was going to look different. I always thought I was going to be married with a bunch of kids. By the time I was 3536 years old. I actually mapped it out when we were in nursing school, we did a vision, you know, exercise where we saw ourselves. And I’ve seen myself as a mom, since I was a little girl. And when that wasn’t happening, I fell deeper into my depression. But the way I coped was drinking, and I found myself going to the liquor store multiple times during the week to get a bottle of wine or two, and I would come home from my nursing shift. And it’s kind of like a joke in the nursing world, or even healthcare, I mean, even seen on shows like Grey’s Anatomy, they all go to the bar at the end of their shift, and they have a drink, and they talk about the day. And I would walk into my apartment, and I would pour myself a glass of wine, like it was my it was my gift to myself, for taking care of people for 12 and a half hours. And I would limit myself to two glasses because I didn’t want to have a headache the next day, but I usually did. But if I didn’t work the next day, maybe I had three glasses. And I found that on the days when I wasn’t working. And I was just out running my errands and doing my things and going into the gym and doing laundry, I poured myself a glass of wine around five o’clock or six o’clock as I was getting ready for dinner. And looking back now I realized that that was my way to numb out from the stress of the job. But at the same time, the disappointment in my life. And so I was able to just numb out, drink some wine, watch some TV and not be present with what was actually going on in my life and what I could possibly do to start to change things and better myself. And so as I have shared my story more I have had other nurses and health care providers open up about similar addictions and whether it’s like you said it could be alcohol, drugs, it could be sex, it could be spending money, you know, just go into the store spending money to feel better in the moment. It could be gambling, you know, but it we find ways to numb out so that we don’t have to deal with the pain of what we see and smell and hear and do in our daily jobs.
Victoria Volk 9:29
I’m so glad that this came up because I think it’s in the culture. It’s embedded in the culture this there is a wine culture, right and even with moms, the mom wine culture, yes. It’s so because motherhood is can be can burn you out too. You know, if you’re not taking care of yourself if you’re not filling your cup, right. And that’s that was me. That was me too. You know, I bought a bunch of hats at one time and I had no balance in my life and I was burning out as well. And really, the underlying current was grief, unprocessed and undealt. With grief. Yeah. So can you share about more about your, and, you know, this vision that you had for yourself and how that’s transformed and changed over time?
Katie Carroll 10:22
Yeah, you know, I feel like okay, you know, get the tissues for myself, because I know, you know, but when I share it, I love sharing my story now, because I know it will help people. But like, first and foremost, it has helped me to share my story. And when you just said like, the undercurrent was grief. That is, so what I was living in. So when I was a little girl, I used to play this game with my mom, where I would walk into the kitchen with one of my doll babies, and I was maybe 567 years old. And we played this game where she would call me Mary, I don’t even know where that name came from. And I would walk into the kitchen, and she would say, Mary, how are you? I haven’t seen you in years. And we were like, friends, and she would say, How many children do you have now? And I would have one or two or three dolls with me. And I would say I just had my third. And she would say, Oh, my goodness, I have three children, what are their names. And this went on for a couple years. And I was two years old when my first brother was born. And then I was six years old when my second brother was born. And when my second brother was born, I would carry him around the house, like he was one of my dolls. And I had younger cousins. And so I was always kind of playing with the kids. And then like I said, I started babysitting at age 12. And I just always pictured myself as a mom. And I would hear people say you’re going to be a great mom, you know? And and I would say yes, I know. And I can’t wait for that day. And so I went to nursing school. And like I said, we did a vision exercise at the end of our last year, a couple weeks before graduation, and it said, where do you picture yourself in five years, and I immediately wrote it out. I’m 27 years old. I’m a pediatric nurse practitioner at the Children’s Hospital in Philadelphia, and I’m married with twins boom. I mean, there was no question in my mind, Victoria, that that was going to be the life that I was going to lead. I had no idea that believing that that was my path. I was also believing that if it didn’t happen, then something must be wrong. I never thought that it would look any different. And so I went into my 20s. And I, you know, I lived with a friend and I did all the things and I went out and had great times. But I was constantly thinking, when is it going to happen? When is it going to happen? And if I would meet a guy and go on a date, in my head, I immediately put my name with his last name, I immediately thought, is this going to work? Does he want kids, you know, and I’m sure I pushed away so many men because of that, or even sabotage relationships because of that. And as I turned 30 years old, and I was very single, and I was a traveling nurse. And I traveled to Philadelphia. Funny enough, I was a traveling nurse at CHOP at 30 years old, but I was single with no kids. And then I traveled to San Diego and then to Boston and then back to New Jersey. And I feel like I was like looking for my husband, I was looking for that answer. And as I turned 30 and then 3132 3334, I was the maid of honor in a bunch of weddings. I was named godmother to some of my best friends, children. My younger brothers were getting married, having kids, and everybody would say, you know, your time will come. But I knew that getting older, for me for having a child that that clock was ticking. And when I was, I guess it was around 36 years old, 37 years old. And that’s when I fell into my deepest depression was that I would lay my head on the pillow at night and cry because I actually pictured my own week.
And I pictured myself really old like I’m like, Oh girl, you’re gonna live a long time, like, you know, 90 years old, but I pictured people peering into my coffin and whispering about me saying things like, Did she ever get married? Did she ever have children? Does she have family here? And in those moments, I related, not ever getting married, not ever having children with an unworthy life, and that I would have spent all this time here and then never made an impact. Never left a legacy. And so when I think about those times, I think that you know, I had no idea of how to get out of how I was thinking, I was so deep in it. And the burnout was real. And I said I was burnt out at work. But I was really burnt out in my life and drinking and spending money, but still saying yes to everybody. And being a people pleaser, because I was working so hard so that people wouldn’t realize that on the inside, my soul was slowly dying, I was in the best physical shape of my life. And people would say, you’re in amazing shape. You have great arms, you have great legs, you know, all of those things. I worked out three, four days a week, every week for years, because I was protecting the inside, unbeknownst to me, that maybe if I looked perfect on the outside, that nobody would know, on the inside the mess that was happening in my heart, in my mind. And when I look back to that time, Victoria, I don’t, I don’t know how I knew how to move forward, I just know that I had an incident while working in the pediatric emergency room with one of my patients where he tried to harm himself under my watch. And my clock, and I something that night in may just broke. And I remember saying to my mom, three words, that I’ll never forget, I said, I don’t care, I don’t care. If I get in trouble at work, I don’t care. You know, my patient was fine and safe. But all the other things I just didn’t care about. I don’t care if I get in trouble if my boss yells at me if I lose my job. And my mom said to me that night, Kate, this doesn’t sound like you. And this hasn’t sounded like you in a really long time, something has to change within you. Because I was looking at the outside world to change. I wanted people to change around me, I wanted work to change my co workers, my patients, I wanted Mr. Right to walk into my life. And it was in that moment, that I just started to realize that I needed to start taking some responsibility for myself and my actions, and my happiness if I wanted to start living. Because I felt like I wasn’t living, I was waiting, I was waiting for so long for all these things to show up. And I was missing out on the things that were happening in my life. And so that kind of started my journey of learning how to love myself, and learning how to show up for myself and truly learning how to fill up my cup so that I could show up for myself and this world. In all of the ways that I was meant to.
Victoria Volk 17:49
Sending you a hug, you move me to tears, I just felt your pain in your words. And they say that there’s something called I had a podcast guest not that long ago, she had lost her child after birth, within hours. And she said she’d wake up in the middle of the night with empty arms syndrome. And it just made me think of what you share like this, this empty arm syndrome that just doesn’t go away that you never got to experience. And I’m gonna I’m gonna ask a question that maybe a lot of listeners may be wondering, had you ever considered just being a single mom and finding a way for that for yourself?
Katie Carroll 18:33
Do you know? That’s a great question, Victoria, because a lot of people have asked me over the years, I was dating someone between like 33 and 35 years old, who I thought I would marry and have kids with, even though you know, there were some things in the relationship, you know, that I wasn’t sure. But it was one of those like, well, you know, we’re at the age and we talked about it, but some, you know, family situations happened for his family. And, you know, ultimately we ended up breaking up when I was when we were 35 years old, were the same age. And you know, people started saying then why don’t you freeze your eggs? Why don’t you or think about being a single mom. And for me, I was still holding on to that dream that it would be with a man that I would meet someone and that it would happen. And then I started dating someone else when I was just turning 40 Almost 3939 Almost 40 But he was much older than me. So we I wasn’t sure again, if that would happen. But you know, we loved each other and cared about each other and we’re kind of moving maybe towards that and maybe doing some type of fertility but again, it didn’t get to that point. And we ended our relationship. So then I found myself at 42 Totally single and you know wondering should I should I do the thing should I go and you know, do the fertility on my own. And actually, I have two women in my life who did it on their own, who are about my age, and one of them has two children on her own, and the other one has one child on her own. And I started weighing the do I want to go through all of that myself and do all of the medications and the treatments. And, you know, I respect everybody’s opinion, and belief on this. And my personal belief was that I didn’t want to take all of that medication and do all of the medication. And so then that was kind of the answer, well, then it’s not going to happen, if you’re not going to do it that way. And also, the money to be put into it, I didn’t have the money to put into it, although I know, people say that you can find a way. And so you know, I, I was in this place of, well, I don’t know, then if it’ll happen. And you know, people will say to you, like, Oh, my aunt got married when she was 45. And they had two kids after you know, and maybe they did fertility or maybe not. And so, you know, for me feeling like I was on this quest for my worthiness or my purpose in this world. You know, during those years, my first nephew was born, I feel like I could cry again. But my first nephew was born five and a half years ago. And it’s like, when he was placed in my arms, I’m like, Oh, this is, this is what it’s all about, you know, I knew I would love him. You know, I just never knew how much and so that started helping me realize that, like, you know what, I can still have an impact in this world and love and share my love and fill my arms, like you said, with my nephews. And then my second nephew was born three years ago, and my third one was born two years ago. And through them, I have found such a purpose with, you know, sharing the love, because I think that’s what it is Victoria, too, is that I knew I had so much love in me, that it hurt, not to give it out to people. I mean, I give it to my family and my friends, but like, to really just pour it out, you know. And I found through my nephews, I’m able to, like, pour so much love, you know, into them and think about, you know, their lives and their futures and just being a part of it. And then, you know, almost two years ago, I rejoined match.com, at the advice of a friend, when I had sworn I would never, ever do it again, because I did it for years, I went on a lot of dates, I dated a lot of guys, there was there was some good, there was a lot of bad. There was, you know, feeling not good enough. And people judge you by your picture and your age. And you know, I had sworn to never ever do it again. And I hadn’t done it in years. And one of my co workers said just try, just try. And I joined on a Friday night. And the next day, there was an email from a guy named Peter. And we started emailing that day, that Saturday, and he called me the next day Sunday. And he picked me up on Tuesday for our first date. And that was it. And we moved in together April 1 2020, the beginning of a pandemic, which was a great time to have a nurse move in with you. And we got engaged in November in Aruba. And we’re getting married next month, August 6, our two year anniversary of going on our first date.
Victoria Volk 23:55
Oh, just chill bumps.
Katie Carroll 23:59
I’m sorry for the crying, but I feel like it’s just, you know, coming out, everything’s coming out. And it’s just, you know, it’s when people say like, you know, maybe that wasn’t your time. You don’t want to hear that during that time. I didn’t want to hear that I didn’t want to hear people’s stories about their aunt that met someone when they were 45 and had kids because I thought but my story was supposed to be different. And when I started my coaching, I wasn’t sure who I truly want to help her how I want to help them but in helping single women, which is part of what I do is that, you know, there may be someone out there in this world who shares a similar story. And I’m so happy that I had the support around me. And the you know, maybe the incident in the emergency room that was kind of like my awakening of starting to make small changes in my life. and ultimately never giving up hope, even though there were some really, really dark times, because with the birth of my nephews, and then meeting Peter, you know, people are still asking me Are you guys going to have kids, you know, and I’m 44 years old now, he’s 52. And I can honestly tell you, Victoria that if it happens, it happens that we have talked about it, and we will be fine with it and overjoyed, but if it doesn’t happen, I’m okay with that. Because I know that my purpose and my worth really isn’t tied to me birthing a child, and that there’s so much in this life to be thankful for, and that I’m so you know, lucky, and feel so grateful that I have, I have both my parents, I have my siblings, my sisters in law, my nephews, my fiance, and we are just so excited to share our life together, and do all of the things that I always dreamed about doing with that person. You know, and it didn’t happen in the timing that I thought it would. But if we had met 20 years ago, who knows what would have happened, or if we’d met 10 years ago, or even, you know, five years ago, that it was truly All in due timing. And, you know, they always say like, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. I mean, he was probably thinking, Katie, I know, I know, you want this, but you know, some things have to happen first, and I want you to learn this lesson or that lesson, and it will come you know, and I always say like, Peter was worth the weight. I mean, he was so worth the weight every, every day, I pull into my driveway, and I smile, when I just know, I’m going to walk into the house and see him and you know, now it’s almost, I’ll never forget my life at all and all of those years, but it’s it’s a gift to be able to look back at that version of me that was trying so hard. And I love her and I want to send her love and just say like you were doing, like the best that you could at that time. And thank you for staying strong, because I wouldn’t be here today, if that version of me didn’t stay strong.
Victoria Volk 27:18
What comes across in your words is gratitude. I just feel it is so much gratitude. And I think as a mother, and I’ve birth three children, you take it for granted. Like in there was a point in my life, my early 20s. I didn’t want kids. Like I actually said that I didn’t want kids. I think because my experience growing up, I thought it was a cruel world. And I didn’t trust. I didn’t have trust. And I thought, Gosh, I don’t want to bring a child into this, you know, this misery. In a way, you know, but you know, when you meet someone too, that flips your life upside down in a positive way. And you have moments that awaken you, right and change the trajectory of your life, things change. And that’s what happened for me too. But what were some of the unhelpful or hurtful things that you heard during that time? Imagine there was a lot.
Katie Carroll 28:16
There was you know, I heard a lot that it just wasn’t my time yet. And that, you know, that hurts because it’s it seemed to be happening happening for everybody else. You know, and so when it’s not happening for you, but you look around at your siblings, and it’s happening for them, and their younger, it’s happening for my best friends that I’ve been best friends with since sixth grade. And all around the same time, actually, three of my very best friends from sixth grade, got married within five weeks of each other. It was just about five weeks, three of my very best friends I would I was the maid of honor in two of the weddings. And in all the wedding parties, and within five weeks, you know, they all got mad. I mean, it was like talk about you know, the bridal showers in the bachelorettes and then the weddings I mean it was boom, boom, boom, you know and so I feel like every birthday I would here this is going to be the year you know people say that this is going to be the year I feel it. Good things are gonna happen and you want to feel that way right like another year. This is gonna be great. And then when it didn’t happen, it was this unbelievable like disappointment and also feeling like what am I doing wrong? What is wrong with me and I think that was probably the biggest thing Victoria was that what is wrong with me? You know, I feel like at the core I am a good human being. I’m a pediatric nurse. I’m I’m a good person. I was always a good student. And that was the other thing right? Like doing all the right things like I was an a B student in high school, I was very good. I’m such a rule follower. You know, I, I applied to nine colleges. And I got into all nine, you know, and my, my father was just telling someone the story the other day, and I went to a great nursing school and I graduated, and I pass the board’s on my first attempt, and I got the first job I interviewed for. And I felt like I was doing everything right. And I think then you sit there, I would sit there and think like, well, there must be something like, I must definitely it must be, I must not be pretty enough or thin enough or smart enough or funny enough, like, there has to be something wrong, because it happens for the majority of people. And so I think, you know, I don’t know what people could have said to make it better. But I know that, you know, saying, well, it’s not your time, or, I mean, some people would say, you know, very brazen to say, maybe that’s not your path, you know, every once in a while someone would say that. And I did not want to hear that, you know, and they would say like, look at your life, you have a beautiful life, you’re healthy and well in great job and family and friends. But it’s like, but but it’s not enough is really what I wanted to say. But you’d never want to say that. Because you don’t want people to think you’re ungrateful. I have a friend who’s my age. Well, she actually just turned 44. And she’s single never married. No kids, she has a younger sister who’s married with two kids. And she feels the same way about her niece and nephew that I feel about my nephews. But at her sister’s baby shower, an aunt said to her, this must be really hard for you. And so even though I’m sure people don’t mean to hurt your feelings, saying things that like, this must be really hard for you. Or, you know, I think one of the other things is, like you said, you know, my mom would run into a friend, or like one of my high school friends, moms, she would run into her, you know, over Christmas at church. And my mom would say, Oh, Mrs. So and so said, How’s Katie? Has she found anyone special yet? And my mom would say no, you know, she hasn’t, you know, so it was almost this pressure, like, not only do good in the world, and get a job and make money and be self sufficient, and take care of yourself and make everyone else around you happy. But like also, like, try to find that husband and try to have those kids in that house. And you know, so the pressure, I think that is put on us as a society, because that’s just how it’s been for years and years and years is that, you know, a man and woman I mean, in today’s world, you know, everything is very different, beautiful, and who you know, man, man, woman, woman, whatever it may be. But that like a woman, her job was to, you know, find a partner, build a home, birth, the children take care of the children take care of the home, you know, and now many women work, you know, outside the home in the home, but still doing all those things. And if you’re not, you’re almost looked at like, Oh, what, you know, they want to almost say to you like, what’s wrong, you know, and I actually one time I was working in the during that time during the peds emergency room years, and I was working with a male nurse who was per diem. Like, he wasn’t full time with us. He was just there like every now and then. And I was approaching the nurse’s station and his back was to me. And he was like, around my age, and he was married with kids. And he didn’t know I was standing there. And I heard him say to someone else, what’s up with Katie, man, she’s hot. Like she’s a nurse. Like she’s got a good job. Like, she seems pretty smart. But like she’s single, like, she’s never married, like, doesn’t have any kids like and then he said it What Is she crazy? So then that thought comes in your head? Like am I is I guess something’s wrong with me mentally maybe there is something wrong, you know. And so all of these messages that are sent to us, left me feeling like it’s definitely me, I’ve done something wrong, or I’m doing something wrong, and I’m not doing enough. And so at the end of the day, it’s my fault that it’s not happening.
Victoria Volk 34:26
So was it the moment your nephew was born that the flip the switch flipped to understanding that really, it was self love that was missing for you? And and can you take us back to your childhood and where maybe that stems from?
Katie Carroll 34:42
Yeah, that’s a great question. Because I feel like you know, as an adult, I feel like I can look back to so many things and we may not think that it’s affecting us now. You know, 44 years later, but Yes, with my nephews, my nephew Liam when he was born And he was born premature. He was five weeks early, and he was in the NICU for 25 days, but we were able to visit, you know, all the time, you know, I was saying when I was holding him and just looking down at his little face, you know, and the love I felt for him, I guess I started to realize, like, it was an extension of me. And like, truly an extension of me, this is my brother, Son, and the, I guess, like the way that I was able to show up for him. And my family, you know, and a lot of people would say, Katie, if you were married with kids, your relationship would be very different, probably with your nephews just in a different way. Because you would be, you know, in your world, with your kids and everything. And I do think about that, sometimes to that, you know, it still would have been very special, but different because I was able to step in as the aunt, you know, who doesn’t have kids was able to babysit and do the things and be with them. And I think like you said, it was I started to realize that, you know, I, I hadn’t been loving myself and I when I would look at his face, and think about like his life and being there for him. It was all of a sudden, like, I have to take care of myself so that I can be here for him and his life. You know, and then with the births of my second and third nephews, you know, wanting to be there, you know, for all of the wonderful moments in their life. And so when I think about my childhood, you know, and that’s, it’s hard Victoria, you know, because you think like, I had a great childhood, like, Thanks be to God, like, you know, I never had any trauma, like abuse, like in those regards. When you hear some people’s stories, you know, like, my mom was a stay at home mom and my dad worked in the city, and he was home every night at 6pm for dinner. And, you know, we went, we lived in a great town, we went on vacations. But when I think about did I love myself, I guess I never thought about it like that. I thought I’m surrounded with love, so much love. But I don’t think that I was loving myself. And I think and I’ve told this story a couple times when I talk about, you know, being a perfectionist and living that people pleaser life that my father, he used to yell a lot, especially at my brothers like I was rarely yelled at, but I think it was because I was like such a goody goody. And I don’t know if that was like the firstborn, you know, but my brothers, I mean, their boys like I see it with my nephews. They were constantly wrestling and physical and everything. And my father would yell and when my father yelled, the house shook, and I cried. Meanwhile, I wasn’t the one being yelled at. But I learned at an early age that I didn’t want my dad to yell, like at me. So I tried really, really hard to be perfect. And the people pleaser to not upset him. And here I am at 44 years old, and I can honestly say that I still try to please my dad, he doesn’t yell like he used to do, right. I mean, we’re all adults now. I mean, but it’s that thought that I don’t want to upset him. And what if I upset him? Not that he’ll yell, but maybe he’ll say something, you know, will it hurt my feelings. And so I think that maybe I was working so hard on being perfect. That when you’re working that hard on being perfect, like you’re beating yourself up all the time, because like we all know, nobody’s perfect and nothing is perfect. But when you’re striving for it, and you’re not hitting it, because it’s not realistic, it’s a constant knockdown of yourself, beating yourself up the negative self talk. So I realized now that I was living for decades striving for something that was not realistic never hitting it because I never was going to and in the process just beating myself up. You know, I remember putting out a post recently that said I was in an abusive relationship, dot dot dot. And of course, I got so many people’s attention like what and I said with myself
Victoria Volk 39:19
With yourself? Yeah, yeah. How many of us are right? Oh, such a good point. So did you do you see when you look back now, do you see how that kind of translated into your relationships with men?
Katie Carroll 39:31
Yes, I totally do. Because I, I would, there were no boundaries with them. And, you know, I’ve like I said, you know, working as a nurse, I’ve worked three days a week for, you know, over 21 years. And so if I met a guy that lived, you know, 40 minutes from me 45 minutes, and we would maybe plan a dinner for Thursday night. I would always say I can drive. I can drive to your house. It’s okay, I’m off tomorrow. I’m a nurse, you know, and I would constantly give them an out. And I remember one time my cousin saying to me, she’s five years older, she’s always been like a role model in my life. She said to me, why isn’t he driving to you. And at the time, it was someone that lived in an area in Hoboken, he didn’t have a car, he took the train everywhere. And I said, Well, he doesn’t have a car, and it’s okay. And my cousin said, he can take the train to where you live. And so I see now that I was constantly trying to please them, and even physically right thinking that, you know, if we have sex earlier than not, maybe he’ll like me more. And then maybe I’ll get closer to that goal of getting married and having the kids and then when it didn’t work out, thinking, was it because I had sex too early was it because, you know, I didn’t do X, Y, or Z, the constant beating myself up again, you know, not realizing that, you know, I only realized I should say that I am like, fully myself with Peter, when I met Peter, I think, because we met at a later stage in life, that, you know, we both came to the table with, this is me, this is who I am, you know, I was 42, he was 50. And this is who we are. And, you know, I liken it to I say, it’s like the, you know, Ferris wheel at an amusement park. That’s been going right. And like Peter and I jumped on, and I had 42 years under me, and he had 50 years, and we’re like, let’s see if we can make this work. We like being together, we’re attracted to each other, like, you know, we have so much other stuff in our life, that it was almost, it was hard to not be who we are, you know, because this is me, this is who I am. This is what I do for a living. This is my family, you know, these are the things that are important to me. And then the same for him. And, you know, that’s when I feel like you truly know you’ve met your person. When you feel like you you’re not putting up any facades, you know, and, and it works, you know, and now when I look back to all those years of dating, I think I was not me. I mean, you know, even when someone says like, where do you want to go to dinner? And it was always it’s wherever you want to go, right? Meanwhile, I’m like, Oh, I really want sushi or Italian or Indian food or something, you know. But when you meet that person that you’re totally you know, yourself with, and it’s like, where do you want to go to dinner? Do you want to go to talent, Italian, I’m not really feeling Italian tonight, you know, might be too heavy on my stomach, can we go do something else like sushi or Indian or you know, and you just find that you are being you. And then it’s so easy. Because you’re not trying to be somebody else. And when I look back to those times, like that’s why I think it was so hard. And that’s why I think I struggled and, you know, self sabotage and had so many disappointments, I had all these expectations. But I was like working so hard. You know, I wasn’t being who I truly am. What truly made me happy. I was just on this mission. I was just on a path to meet a man and get married and have kids. So you know, I thought that was like the ultimate goal. I was on this in this race against time, you know? And then I met Peter and it was like, why does this seem so easy? Because I think and I don’t know, if it’s something that comes with age, you know, but we were both at points were like, This is me Take it or leave it. You know, I think I had built up my confidence also, in doing the work on myself, the years leading up to meeting him that I knew what I wouldn’t stand for what I would stand for what made me happy. And I was already feeling fulfilled and with a purpose. With my nephews and my family and my life. I was feeling very, you know, worthy of my life and at peace. Yes, yes.
Victoria Volk 44:01
Peace Peace inside peace out.
Katie Carroll 44:04
Yes. Oh my gosh, victoria so much and that you know, you remind me of I was working with a life coach like around that time roughly and he would always say what do you want in this life and peace was my number one answer I wanted peace in my mind in my heart. I didn’t know how to get there what it would look like but I knew that I was I was at unrest like I was at such a place of just feeling like disheveled on the inside like frantic and depressed and anxious you know and I wanted peace because I knew that would be the opposite of how I was feeling I you know living like that was an enjoyable and that’s why you know again the numbing out you know the drinking, you know the spending money so that I didn’t have to sit with the way I was feeling
Victoria Volk 44:54
Emotional dis ease, huh? Yeah, that’s what I saying Grief Recovery. Yeah, yes. and I, when you were talking about just coming to the table and being who you are, it’s, it’s being able to cut the BS, right? It’s like, there’s no, like you said, there’s no pretending there’s no facade there’s, you’re able to, to, to just be and speak your soul. Yeah. I love that. I love that too. So throughout your experience, what has given you the most joy and hope for your future?
Katie Carroll 45:34
Hmm I feel like I could get emotional again thinking about it. Because it’s, it’s such a happy thought now, just living my life being grateful for the day to day like I said, when I pull into my driveway at night, and I smile, thinking I’m No, I know, I’m gonna walk in the house and see my fiance and when we go out to dinner, and just enjoy a good meal together. And when I see my family, and we just get to celebrate life together, and being with my nephews, and also being at work, I left the pediatric emergency room. And now I work in a pediatric same day surgery unit and knowing that I was put here for a purpose. And that purpose is to share my love and to spread my love. And that has looked like being a pediatric nurse for 21 years. And it has looked like being a daughter and a sister and an aunt and now fiance, and that at the end of the day, I feel whole and worthy and fulfilled knowing that I’m doing exactly what I was meant to do in this world, and it feels so right. It just pours out of me. It’s who I am. And I’m able to, you know, go to bed at night feeling feeling peaceful feeling fulfilled, that I’m living the life that was always there. But I chose to look the other way for a really long time.
Victoria Volk 47:10
I was gonna say, Don’t you think it’s kind of ironic that you chose peds?
Katie Carroll 47:14
Yes.
Victoria Volk 47:16
But peds chose you. And if think about it, like there’s, I’m sure there’s plenty of nurses who have children at home and or maybe you’ve been burned out at home. So then they come to work and they’re burned out? And are you really able to serve those children then. And you’re burned out at home. And so you bring a gift to those kids of really being able to be present with them. Yeah, because you don’t have that burnout at home.
Katie Carroll 47:45
Right? I never thought about it that way too. I love that.
Victoria Volk 47:48
So where can is there anything else you’d like to share?
Katie Carroll 47:51
Oh, this is awesome Victoria, thank you. I just feel so grateful for you allowing me to share my story here and be me and be vulnerable. And you know, just I love to share the message that you are enough, you are born enough. You’ve always been enough. And now is the time to start believing it. That’s what I say to my clients. So the world. And I feel like if we can start to embrace that a little bit each day, then the happiness that we’re looking for in life, the piece will start to uncover itself because it’s there.
Victoria Volk 48:29
I love that. Beautiful. Thank you. Where can people find you? If they want to reach out to you?
Katie Carroll 48:35
Oh thank you so much for asking. You can find me actually at my name Katie Carroll, it’s K A T I E C A R R O L L. Katiecarrollcoaching.com is my website. And then you can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Katie Carroll coaching. I have a Facebook group Katy Carroll coaching and I’m also on LinkedIn. And those are the place I love Facebook. I love Instagram, and you can go to my website, you know to schedule a free discovery call with me, you could send me a message on any of the social platforms, I would be honored to connect with anybody that would like to connect. Are you currently taking clients? I am thank you for asking. I definitely am in my one to one coaching program. So I would be honored. I always say I’d be honored to walk alongside anybody on their journey in this life. Because you know, sometimes we need that person to just walk you know lovingly alongside of us as we navigate this crazy beautiful world.
Victoria Volk 49:41
Right? Is your name changing in your branding? Oh goodness
Katie Carroll 49:45
Wow, you know what? That’s a good question. I mean, we talk about the name changing and today we were doing stuff with the marriage license so that’s interesting. Yeah, I you know, it’s funny Victoria because I’ve always been KTM Carol RN, you know As a nurse and KMC RN, I’ve been writing that for 21 years and people are saying at work, are you going to change your name? And so we haven’t decided yet if I’m going to hyphenate it or change it, you know, so that you’re right now that I think about it, I’m Katie cow coaching everywhere. So I’ll have to ask Peter if he wants to take my name. Right? Yeah.
Victoria Volk 50:08
Why Why is it to change RNA right?
Katie Carroll 50:27
My dream my for so long, like I said, of changing my name. And now all of a sudden, I’m like, Oh, I’m, I’m like Katie Carroll Coaching.
Victoria Volk 50:34
Is that? Isn’t that funny? Like, it’s funny. Not funny. Like, it’s really ironic. Like, it’s something you wanted so badly. And like here, now it’s coming. And it’s like, you may want to keep my name. Right. Right. I know. That is very, you could always you could always hyphenate and just keep your business
Katie Carroll 50:53
True. To You’re right. You’re right.
Victoria Volk 50:56
It doesn’t have to be either or it can be and,
Katie Carroll 51:01
huh, yes, I love that.
Victoria Volk 51:04
Anything else?
Katie Carroll 51:05
I think that’s it. Thank you so much, Victoria. This was amazing. I always feel like so at peace talking to you. So thank you. Thank you for that.
Victoria Volk 51:13
And thank you for being here. Yeah, thank you so much. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.
Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections | Grief Shared is Grief Diminished
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
This week, I share a bit of my heavy heart as I share my reflections around sharing our grieving voices – including my own.
This podcast has enabled me to be a heart for ears for many guests, including Emma G. and Anne. However, this week’s episode is also inspired by my grief in real-time.
Since 11/14, life has been day-to-day, not knowing what the future will hold for our son. As of this episode going live, he is in the hospital (for the second time after initially being admitted) with an infection after having a traumatic blunt force injury to his abdomen while bench-pressing. He’s fortunate. And, if he’s even luckier, he won’t need surgery; however, that would take a miracle. His pancreas is sliced with a little more than 30% good pancreas left. He has a stent in place to ensure the good side of his pancreas is draining. He also has a drainage port in the middle of his abdomen to drain the pancreatic juices excreted from the sliced-off portion of his pancreas. Right now, we are in a wait-and-see phase, with surgery likely down the road.
When life decides to…well, life – so much of our routines and day-to-day lives are upended. Grief is the end of or a change in a familiar pattern of behavior. Because of this, we experience grief as a result.
Think about all of the changes to our behaviors and activities Covid-19 has brought. Changes outside of our lives that contribute to our day, still are changes. Add in a family unit crisis or health struggle, and all of those little creature comforts that are changed add to the grief one may feel due to heavier life issues. And not to mention the fear that rears its ugly head.
No matter what you’re going through today, I hope you have a heart with ears. May we share our grief with one another so the load becomes lighter because grief shared is grief diminished.
RESOURCES:
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. I’m your host Victoria Volk. And this is the takeaways and reflections on episode 73 with Emma G Rose, his name is Nikki, and episode 74 with Ann Jacobs, a follow up to a previous recording that we did several months back just to see how she’s doing and checking in and I will continue to do those episodes within as long as I have this podcast. And as long as she’s willing to share her story of in her progress of where she’s at.
Talk About Your Grief
So today, this is going to be a very quick episode. Because as I’m recording this, my son is in the hospital with a very serious injury. And the next three weeks will determine if he requires surgery or not. And it’s a very risky surgery because it’s his pancreas. He had had a weightlifting accident 185-pound weight bench bar came down on his abdomen, and which compressed his pancreas into his spine. And his spine severed his pancreas in half. So, it’s a very serious injury. He’s doing well right now he’s got a dream put in. And we’re hoping that with that, the inflammation and fluid that’s draining and everything else combined, that he will, you know that inflammation, everything going down that it will hopefully begin to heal itself. That is the miracle that we need. Because surgery is very risky. And it also opens up a lot of other possible complications. So, if we don’t have to cut open his abdomen, that would be ideal. The thought that came to my mind when I was, I mean this was quickly I’m recording this before I get back on the road, actually to go back to the hospital where he’s at, which is about three and a half hours away came home to spend a little time with our daughters and take care of some things here. But I just thought I needed to record something real quick, obviously, because I needed an episode for next week.
But the message I want to share today is grief shared as grief diminished. And I had a tsunami of grief hit me yesterday. And this is grief I’ve never experienced and it’s so difficult when it’s your child going through something that you feel so helpless. And I commend all those parents out there who endure this feeling for weeks or months or even maybe even years on end. This is a very different kind of grief. Grief. I never, I can’t even when I describe his incident, I can’t even believe I’m describing what happened. It’s so rare. It’s just so rare. And I joke with a friend of mine, how I just seem to be a magnet for odd duck things. And I’ve said this for a couple years, just odd duck situations. And this really this one takes the cake, this is really an odd duck situation. And but the miracle is that he will heal. And in my message grief shared his grief diminished is really the whole idea behind this podcast because I bring people on my show who really just want to share their story, who want to be heard, and their feelings validated. And to know that there is an army of people who understand grief and are really just looking for a heart with ears. And I’ve been that for many people and its what lights me up. So maybe you’re my heart with ears today.
Fear of Losing Someone
It was my honor to be Emma’s heart with ears, as she shared her story of her cousin Nikki who took his own life and the impact that he had on her life and continues too. And I think we don’t really recognize the impact that people really have in our lives until something tragic happens until we’re faced with life without that person, the “what could have been”, which is I agonized over that for a couple days, because had that bar landed anywhere else it could have killed him. Instantly his heart, if it would have landed on his chest, his throat, I mean, but that’s agonizing. That’s torturing yourself. And so, I’ve quickly redirected those thoughts because he is here. And he is still got a sense of humor at times and sarcastic, and reminding me that I can be overbearing, and in making sure that he’s comfortable, not been shy about telling us he needs a space. I can’t imagine what he feels he’s been through something very traumatic. And it’s hard. It’s really hard. It’s hard to love and feel helpless, and it’s hard to love when you lose someone, I guess what comes to mind for Emma, what she shared and what many of others have shared is that it just that whole idea about loss itself is that we are taught how to acquire things, but we’re not taught what to do when we lose them. And yesterday, when this tsunami of grief hit me, for anyone today, who maybe experienced a loss of someone they love, we aren’t taught what to do when when we do, but that was what Grief Recovery is the gift of Grief Recovery for me. It is the way to address what is emotionally incomplete. I am reminded that there are many things that probably I thought that I have not shared with my son, you know, positive things, you know, and here I sit, and I have this ability to share now what’s on my heart. And so, we all do, we all have that ability to do that. I don’t know, we’re afraid of how it will be received, or or something I’m not sure but and has been a huge inspiration to me. I just can’t imagine 17 years with with cancer roaring through your body, and she is a warrior. And it’s a very beautiful episode, that one I recorded with her. I really hope you listen to the first one, listen to the follow up. She is an inspiration. Her story is one of tenacity and grace that she’s had to learn to give herself and others. We all plan our lives. And we have our planners, and we plan for the week ahead, or the month ahead, or vacation six months from now, or nine months from now, or what we want to launch next year, or in six months or whatever that timeframe is and can you imagine planning your life in quarters at a time, two to three months at a time because that’s what she has to do. She gets a PET scan, and if it’s good, she can plan for two to three months because before her next PET scan it might be different. And this walking on eggshells feeling, is holding your breath feeling of just not knowing. I’m just reminded of how I feel. I will proceed these next three weeks. And in some fashion, I’ll be holding my breath praying for a miracle and holding my breath. I wish I could dive into more on each episode. But my mental capacity isn’t quite there.
But I think the main message I wanted to share today is that grief shared as grief diminished. And like Emma shared is that when she reaches out to people, if they’re ready in our open, they’ll reach back. And I’ve had so many people reach out and I’ve been on a mission to give as much prayers to my son as possible. And so that’s why I’m recording and sharing this because I want more prayers for my son, more healing vibes for my son. And so just please imagine his pancreas just coming together as it should.
Thank you for being my heart with ears today. And reach out to someone so that maybe they reached back. And if you’re grieving, share your grief with someone because grief shared his grief diminished. If you’re listening to this, please send your positive vibes and healing to my son, his name is Xavier. Thank you for listening. Remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love my friend.
