Divorce, Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parenting, Pespective |
Tina Ginn | Preparing for the Worst
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Tina, like many grievers, has found her passion in her pain. What started out as a career as a financial advisor, where she was well-versed in risk management, morphed into helping others prepare for the worst in their lives.
Having lived through a forest fire evacuation order, the quick decline of a dear friend’s health and death due to cancer, a traumatic car accident which later led to losing her job, to a subsequent divorce and estrangement with her children, Tina has learned the importance of connection and preparedness.
She brings her passion for helping people become prepared for the worst. She recognizes that the last thing people want to worry about, when tragedy strikes or when there are moments to make decisions, are the logistics of their lives.
Through her app, Your Backup Plan, she helps individuals get their lives in order so that, when tragedy or nature does strike, your life is in the palm of your hand. This not only makes your family’s lives easier if something happens to you but also your own if it’s you at the center of the unfortunate experience.
Tina says we shouldn’t wait until someone is dying, or we are dying, to prepare; by then, it’s too late. Additionally, the conversations you want to be having in these moments do not include the bills that need to be paid and how they’re paid. Also for example, where social media passwords are, what to do with a beloved collection, or a last will and testament. These issues and logistics can be documented in advance so that anyone close can pick up the pieces with less stress. Also, in turn, this allows for more time for deep connection when it counts.
RESOURCES/CONNECT:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Tina Ginn of your backup plan. She helps put your life in one place in preparation of any unpredictable, unpredictable circumstance while taking the painful aftermath out of the tragedy. Thank you so much for being here, Tina.
Tina Ginn 00:22
Well, thank you so much for having me. We’re a little bit apart from each other today.
Victoria Volk 00:29
Yes.
Tina Ginn 00:30
I’m on the west coast in here in the central.
Victoria Volk 00:33
Yeah. And, you know, zoom knows no time or space, right?
Tina Ginn 00:39
It’s good.
Victoria Volk 00:40
Yeah
Tina Ginn 00:41
We can reach all our listeners.
Victoria Volk 00:43
We live in an amazing time. It’s COVID really put a damper on so many aspects of our lives. But I have found some silver linings in COVID. And that I was able to pursue a lot of different learning opportunities and things and I’m sure it’s connected you with many people, and my podcast has connected me with you know, many people, too. And that’s been the beautiful thing out of it. But yeah, so we are going to talk about grief today. Obviously, that’s the podcast grieving voices. And we’ll get to Tina’s passion work later in the episode. So, what brings you to grieving voices today?
Tina Ginn 01:23
Well, you know, Victoria, that it’s been very, I’ve had many different types of grief. And it started off with a very close friend of mine, who went into the hospital for tests, because she had a cough. And she didn’t really have any other symptoms. And her husband had called me, and they had $1 store in a small city, and said, I’m really busy at the store, can you pick her up after her tests? I said, absolutely. So, I waited to hear from him. And he said, she won’t be coming home. She’s staying in for more tests. So, the next day, I get a phone call that she has stage four cancer, lung cancer, and that she’s not coming home. And, and where she would be so I could go visit her. In the days when we could visit people. Never thought we’d ever hear that, ever, that you couldn’t visit someone in the hospital. But yeah, so I would go up in the elevator twice a week, and you know, my stomach would fall to the My, my stomach, I think would end up in my throat, and the doors of the elevator would open. And I would always be so worried and scared of what it was going to look like, how it was going to evolve, how it was going to change, because every day, it just perpetually changed so quickly that in front of me that it was scary. It’s scary to see someone disintegrate in front of you. And so, I, on one of my visits, I always wear some real t instead of hospital T and we sat outside on the patio, and she said you know, Tina, I just want to feel the breeze. I just want to hear the birds; I just want to see the blue sky. And that’s all and I want to be present with the person that I’m with. I don’t want to talk about did the accounting get finished. Did we pay the inventory? Did the bills get paid, I don’t want to talk about where the keys are for the shed, or who’s who bought the pet food, or what kind of pet food or I don’t want to talk about anything I just want to enjoy the moment. And that made a huge impact on me. Because it made me realize that nobody and that time wants to either for the person with the person in recovery or in. In a short-term death sentence sort of speak. We don’t want to be burdened by all the stuff. We don’t want to worry about who has a key and who does. We don’t want to worry about if the electricity bill is paid. We don’t we don’t care. We don’t care. We just want if the person’s in recovery, we want to be able to get that person better. And the only way to get the person better isn’t like stress and frustration and anxiety and where the stuff is and where’s their will and where’s their dog documents and who’s paid the bills. And we don’t want to worry about all that, we want to know that you are there present in the moment and sharing the love, because it’s only love that’s going to make us better. It’s only love that will innately create that recovery process, if at all possible. We had research done in the states of twin girls, who one was very weak, and the other one was stronger. And they had to be they were premature. And they put them in different little different bed caskets, you know, the little hospital beds, and the one was thriving really, really well. And the little one wasn’t. And every day that went on, it wasn’t getting any better. So, the nurse put the two of them together, and they clenched with each other, and they held each other, and the one helped the other one get better. And so that one then flourished. So it shows you that by being there, by holding the person’s hand, by listening to them by holding them by seeing them by and not regretting after the fact, when they’re gone, I should have cut I would have, I should have spoke to them more, I should have called them more, I should have went and brought food to the more I I should have sat with them longer, I should have spent the whole day with them. No, don’t, don’t do that to yourself. Enjoy the moment and be prepared for the unexpected before it happens not after. So that’s kind of where I came from when I created the app, so that people could be better prepared, and it would be easy. You just pick up your phone and put in your doctor’s appointment. And when you come out of the doctor’s office, you put what he said and take a picture of the prescription. So now you’re putting your life all in one place. You were the CEO of your life, you know where the documents are, you know where your medical history is, you know where your insurance documents are, you’ve taken photos of your home in case of a wildfire, which How many times do we have to deal with those every year? wildfires and floods it seems popular these days. So yeah, so that’s kind of brings me up till the last few years of me taking the time after I had a few episodes of grief myself, that it took me into another place as well, because I had to find myself again, and move forward and help other people to whether it’s healing, because this to me, helps you heal, it helps you heal because it doesn’t bring in the angry, you know, family fights, or the depression or the angry ness between family members. When you’re in that tragedy moment. You You don’t have time to think, you know, people react in so many different ways. Some people get mad, some people get sad. And when you get a family together, let’s let’s try and keep that family together and try to experience something that’s already looked after. When it’s all looked after already, then you don’t have those same worries and stress.
Victoria Volk 08:50
Yeah, we often find our passions in life through her personal experiences. Thank you for sharing about your friend. One thing I do want to highlight that you said and one thing I picked up on maybe you didn’t was that when you saw your friend when you were getting out of the elevator and you were talking about that experience, and you were afraid of what it would look like. And you refer to it as it in terms of the cancer, right? And did you feel like you’re trying to distance yourself from that, you know what I mean? Like trying to distance yourself from that, from that diagnosis of? Yeah, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I picked up on that. And so, can you share a little bit more about that what you were feeling?
Tina Ginn 09:46
I think the IT part for me was you know, it changed so quickly from someone sitting on the edge of the bed, to somebody lying in the bed with oxygen and then not hardly being able to speak it, it developed so quickly, that it scared me to think of what the it was going to look like not necessarily the cancer, but the experience. I think it was what I was meaning, you know, the experience that I’m sharing with her, the room, the smells, the whole experience, and I don’t think we we do that we don’t take time; you know from for me, I wasn’t concerned about any of the paperwork or of her life. I was there as a friend and a support and for some sort of healing. And that was my sole purpose. But when she said those things to me, it made me realize you can always expect the unexpected, because life is very, very fragile. We don’t know when we’re going to be here tomorrow. And I think once you’ve gone through something as similar to this, you realize that life is precious. And we don’t have all the time we think we have, you know, we we need to get as much preparation as we can for ourselves as well as those we love. As part of my backup plan app, I’ve created the emerging blueprint, and it’s a membership program to better educate you and your family. those you love around you, too. What things do you need to put together? You know, this is where I kind of started off with, because everybody knows they need a will. That’s about it. Um, some sometimes they say, oh, yeah, Tina, we need a power of attorney. Yes, you do. But what are the other things that you need? What, what is going to make those people you know, if you ended up in the hospital in a coma from COVID, for two months? How would someone get into your home? How would they pay your bills? Where do they where do you have your accounts? Where are your investments? Where’s your key to get in? And do you have pets? Does someone know how to feed them to someone know where the VAT is? All of these things of being prepared for whatever might happen. And I think COVID really woke us all up around the world, that life is precious, and we are not prepared. We truly aren’t.
Victoria Volk 12:44
Yeah, I’ve often found in my own family, you know, or when someone close to my family has passed away. When anyone really passes away that we mutually know, or, you know, then the conversations start happening. Well, you know, what, what would you like, where would you like to be buried? Or what are your wishes. And in that, I mean, oftentimes when we’re faced with a death, that’s we reflect on our own mortality. And so those questions come up during those times. And but what’s funny or not funny is that we don’t act on that. Right? How many people actually have those thoughts? And then they don’t act on it. I’m guilty. I’m totally guilty of this. And I’ve thought about that, too. Like, oh, my gosh, if something happened to me, it would be a nightmare for my family. Like, my husband is not tech savvy at all. He would struggle, he’d be on the struggle bus, in a lot of ways. Like, how would he let my client like, it’s important for me to, I want I would want my clients to know, you know, just all these different little nuances of having a business or just all the stuff I’m involved in, like, what would he do? And I’m not prepared, I’ll be the first to say it. I’m not prepared. He knows what my wishes are. And actually, this just came up the other day, because I’m currently going through an end-of-life doula training program. And one of the topics that came up was how, if if you had the opportunity to know you were dying, right? In the case of lung cancer, terminal illness, a really progressing disease that’s, you know, what do you want your end of days to look like? Do you want your body washed? You want your family to wash your body? How do you want your body honored after you pass? What do you want the end of days to look like? Who do you want there? You know, all these different questions that I really hadn’t given much thought to other other than don’t put a feeding tube in me. Don’t hook me up to you know, have Then a later, that’s not living to me. Right? So beyond that, though, I don’t have that in writing either. You know, and I think I actually I just read up on recently I was I remembered it vaguely, but I looked it up the Terry shearable. Like, it’s how you say her name. She was in a vegetative state for 17 years because her husband wanted the feeding tube removed, and her parents disagreed, and there was nothing in writing. And all he had was a statement she made. And yeah, that’s the case. Yeah. So what is the first thing that you recommend to somebody who, let’s say, has been diagnosed with a terminal illness? Where do you start?
Tina Ginn 15:54
Well, that’s why I created the emerging blueprint, because it starts with what documents that you need to find how to make a folder, how to put them in a safe place, so that if you had a wildfire, you can just grab them. But they’re also in the app. So we go through the process, there’s 12 modules. And then the first one, I mean, literally, you could just do the first one and of knowing what documents to put together and putting them together and getting them put into the app. After that, all of the extras are great to put you one step level better. Any module that you do, you’re going to be better prepared than the last one that you didn’t do. So, I always say to people, you know, one of the modules is just what bills need to get paid. A lot of times and 90% of relationships, partnerships, one pays the bills and the other one doesn’t. So if something happened to one or the other, or both, who pays the bills and how you pay the bills, the person needs to know how to do that in case of an emergency. So that’s like one of the one of the modules the other, there’s a library of videos of recordings from lawyers, notaries, around the world, even, it will get to the point in the program, where I’ll have a UK section, the United States section, a Canada section, so that you can go right to those sections to find out your exact details. But in the meantime, there’s a lot of preparation to get done. And it’s very, very easy to do when you have the papers in front of you. You know, the family conversation module is a worksheet that you can sit down with your family and say, go down and tick off the boxes and write down what that person wants. And you don’t even have to think well Do I have to know that? Do you know what you need until the time comes? Usually not. So, this makes it all nice and clear. You can print them off, you can write on them, you can do them on the computer, whatever is easier for you. So, in the last module is like the most exciting, the most creative part. I’m a Pisces. So, I always invent and create things. But I always have to throw that little bit of extra fun firmness in there. And it’s called the treasure box. And so, it allows you to either do it on a weekly basis, or a monthly basis or an annual basis. Or even just as events unfold. You could add them into your treasure box, whatever suits you. Everyone’s different, but that could be of your five senses. So, smell sight, feel, touch, and see and seeing it hearing it. So, it could be anything that you want to leave as a legacy because not all legacies are money. It could be you know, a special shirt. There’s nothing more special when someone passes away than finding a piece of clothing with their aftershave on it or their perfume on it or their smell. You just want to hold it like a teddy bear and never let it go. So, it’s all of these things that you can add to your treasure box that might be jewelry or artwork collection. I have a client who’s he his hobby is fire trucks Believe it or not, he has a collection of fire trucks. I’m not sure why. But so when you think About how does someone prepare, you know, you don’t just have a collection of fire trucks and then leave your spouse not knowing what it’s worth, what the parts are worth who to contact, if something happened to you, because believe it or not, if you put it out in the newspaper, and you tried to sell it after, there’s lots of takers from from the wife, who’s selling all the collection of collectible items, so you don’t want to go down that road. So yeah, so it’s these kinds of preparations of items where you want to maybe throw in all your grandma’s recipes and pass them down and, or, you know, so every time they make those cookies, it’s gonna smell like grandma’s house, or mom’s house or aunt Sue’s house. So, it’s all of those feelings that I wanted to add in there so that people can make grieving easier. If that’s a thing, because I’m not really sure if it can ever be easy. But I feel like when you have things that you can attach yourself to, maybe it’s music, maybe they sing, maybe they write poetry, maybe they write stories. Maybe it’s a blog or podcast that they’ve been writing, and they would like it passed down to the daughter or the son to continue it. You know what, whatever that looks like. Those are all kinds of things that you want to pass down to your family or friends. So yeah, that’s, that’s the fun part. I think that’s the exciting, like, what can I think of to put in there?
Victoria Volk 21:50
I love that I’m a Pisces too. When’s your birthday?
Tina Ginn 21:55
25th of February.
Victoria Volk 21:56
Okay, March 5th, I just had mine.
Tina Ginn 22:00
Happy birthday!
Victoria Volk 22:01
Thank you happy belated to you. So, you speak a lot of experience in the realm of grief. And I imagine because grief is cumulative, and it’s cumulatively negative. And there’s more than 40 plus different types of losses. What have been your other grieving experiences that have kind of solidified what you’re already doing?
Tina Ginn 22:31
It’s really solidified what I’m doing now. Because when I created the app, it took me a long time, because I’m just one person. So, if I was the inventor, I was the creator, I was the diagram, I was the architect. You know, I was everything. It’s like running a motel, and literally going and rushing the washrooms and signing the people into the room. Like you are everywhere. So, after that, I had a horrific car accident in 2017. And I was hit head on. And I was happy that I was, you know, when I touched myself that I’m like, Okay, I’m still here, I’m, I’m in one piece, and my face is still my face. That was my main concern. But I had a lot of recovery after and I didn’t realize even from broken bones, and physiotherapy on your body parts, that no one is helping your brain. No one’s there for your brain injury, nobody’s there for your concussion. And so, I had to really work on all of those things. And when I realized that after 30 years of marriage, and horrific car accident, I then went on disability after realizing that I just couldn’t seem to even though I was walking around with crutches, and getting driven everywhere, because I had a cast on my foot, I couldn’t drive. I realized that I just couldn’t do my job, which was insurance at the time at a bank. And after four months, I realized after fixing, getting out of my crutches and out of my cast and being able to drive again, that I couldn’t do my job, I couldn’t multitask. I couldn’t, I could do my job with my eyes closed, but I couldn’t do all the multi tasks that there were to do. So, I decided to take go on disability and take some time and get recovered. And so I went back after seven months, and they let me go. And so, then I had a battle with that. And then I realized that I wasn’t getting the support at home. My girls had already been through university, they’ve already left the home. Both are doing their own thing. And it was just myself and my ex-husband. And I just said, you know, this isn’t working for me, I’m not getting the support. And I need something else. And so, I said, It’s time that, you know, I think we aren’t in love with each other. We love each other, but we’re not in love with each other. And I think there’s a difference there. So, we continued on with, we went for counseling, and that didn’t work. It might work for some couples. And we went through with a separation and then a divorce. And then, so after that, I lost contact with my girls. So, they’re in their late 20s. And they decided to go on their merry way. So, I guess I’ve had many different types of losses, many types of grieving. One hurts more than the other, to be honest. But I think they each hurt in a different way. And so, I can feel everybody’s I want to say torture, because it feels like torture. No, I can feel everybody’s feelings of what, how they’re supposed to feel what? I don’t know why with grief; we always think of what we’re supposed to feel. There is no supposed to anything. It’s it’s I think everybody feels different. Because we’ve all had different experiences.
Victoria Volk 26:48
I think at some point, we all feel crazy, though. Like you’re going crazy.
Tina Ginn 26:53
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 26:54
Like, why can I just like, get my crap together? You know that? I mean, that’s how I feel like Why can’t I just get my crap together? I’m sorry, what?
Tina Ginn 27:02
Why can’t I understand this? Why can’t I get my head wrapped around this?
Victoria Volk 27:06
Right? And in your experience of, I mean, there’s ripples, so many ripples in your story of like one loss just leads to another loss and another loss and it compounds it keeps adding rocks to your backpack? And so how, how have you? What has coping look like for you?
Tina Ginn 27:33
Well, I mean, it was definitely tough at first. But I think, by me, telling people stories, and really focusing on healing, helping people heal, with getting better prepared for the inevitable, because we all know, something is gonna happen to each one of us. You know, sometimes, like myself, I had multiple things happen, because obviously, the universe was telling me, hey, Tina, you’re not getting it yet. We’re gonna hit you with another one. And you’re still not getting it yet. So, we’re gonna hit you again. So, I think it brought me to where I’m supposed to be and what I’m supposed to be doing. And it’s created an outlet for me to if it helps me heal by me helping other people heal. By Me, helping people hear multiple stories of different things of what happens in your life, right can turn your life around, that can turn it upside down. You know, there’s such a little thing of losing your wallet, to losing your husband there on very different ends of emergency. And very different ends of the spectrum in the ways of how someone would actually grieve. But the losing the wallet is also an emergency to a lot of people. Because we we know what will happen, right? It’s but it’s there are different emergencies. And I wanted to cover all of them. Because by me going through these experiences, it must have given me that, that compassion and that empathy for people that also have to go through it. And by me creating something to make it even easier for individuals. You know, what I would like to eventually do with your backup plan is have a TV show where I’m traveling to the Ukraine. I’m traveling to Germany, I’m traveling to China, I’m traveling to United States. I’m traveling to these different places to show people how they get prepared for the unexpected in that place, you know that country, because I think that would be really interesting to see all the different cultures of how they, how they look at not necessarily life, but how they look at looking after their family member, you know, what does that look like for them? What does the cemeteries look like, in that country? What are the funerals look like in that place? You know, all of those types of things, I think it would be really interesting. And it would take people to a different level, to understand that it’s everywhere, it’s, it’s just like COVID, it’s everywhere, it’s touched everybody. And it’s not, we’re not going to die, depending on our age, has nothing to do with age has nothing to do the color of our skin. It has nothing to do with anything. And so, when people say, well, who is your target market, or who should be buying your app, I say anybody and everybody who has stuff. And some people say, well, I don’t need a will, because I don’t have anything. Well, that’s not true, either. So, we need to be better prepared, because there’s even the smallest, the littlest things that are very complicated, like social media, you know, if if you have an Instagram account, it’s very difficult to get your son’s Instagram account, and cancel it. Without him allowing you to do that, after he’s passed, who wants the social media accounts left open like that. They’re a prime target for theft, for identity theft, and because they’re not being used. So, it’s all of these social media things, it’s all of these types of things that makes your life easier, even when you think you don’t have very much, you have lots of things, digital accounts, now, we don’t get mail anymore, we don’t get any bills, hydro bills, all comes digitally now. So we need to have a place where those digital accounts can be found by someone just by looking at the right place, in one place for it to be they’re not trying to look in that drawer in that closet and that cupboard. And you know, who knows where that’s usually the way? It’s like, where would she keep it? Where would it be?
Victoria Volk 32:49
Well, folks, if you are not convinced that you’re not prepared. I’m sure you are now. Because I mean, what better sales pitch and I know it’s not a sales pitch, because I can feel it in your heart and you’re speaking and in the conviction in your voice of how much this means to you and how important it is. And I to understand how important it is it’s it’s the taking the action, it’s, you know, taking that step. And so, it is the app itself is available in App Store, correct?
Tina Ginn 33:27
And the launch will be available in a few weeks. And it will be on the website as well.
Victoria Volk 33:34
Okay, and I’ll be sure to link to that because this episode won’t actually air for a while. And so, you’ll probably find the link in the show notes for that.
Tina Ginn 33:44
It’s a lot to comprehend, isn’t it?
Victoria Volk 33:47
I know there’s more to this. I know we can talk a lot more about just I mean the on the unpreparedness aspect of loss and and the ripples of that because like you said, it creates stress and frustration of those left behind when well what are we doing in the repercussion of that, like let’s say you don’t get that bill paid like you have no idea where to pay that bill. You get overage charges, you get interest charged, you get late fees, and then all of a sudden, a $300 bill becomes an $800 bill because because you simply don’t know it exists or where to pay it right? And I mean, I flooded I when I was in my early 20s, I flooded out of my apartment. My mail was not for whatever reason I had a credit card bill that was not forwarded, or I didn’t receive it. That’s what happened to me all of a sudden, I’m you know 21 years old, and you know making I don’t even know what minimum wage is back then. Maybe five, six bucks an hour. I mean really. Um, but I lived in grout, you know, like I had a walkout patio or a walkout, you know, it was the ground level and flooded and had to move. And yeah, all of a sudden, I think it was like a $400 bill became like over $800. And I, I $800 to me when I was 21, that was a lot of money. Yeah, that was a lot of money. But that was just a consequence of me just not being prepared and, you know, lack of preparedness, I suppose. But, you know, something would have happened to me, then who would have been? What, you know, what would have happened with that build. So, you’re driven the message home to me. And I’m, I definitely will be giving this much more thought after, after today, for sure.
Tina Ginn 35:45
It’s about being educated. Really, you know, because at first, I thought, Oh, you know, everyone can use the app. Well, the app is there. But it really helps. And I suspect it’s a lot for women, mainly, because we like to build our Nast. And we like to be educated. We like to know why we’re doing things. It seems like that anyways, whether it’s true or not, I’m not sure but and so that’s when I made the emerging blueprint, because that way people can go watch a 20 minute video, you know, they can go watch another module to find out about life insurance, or find out more about car insurance or find out more about house insurance or tips on a little video on talking to a house insurance person agent talking about that, or, you know, all of these different little educational parts that we truly don’t really know if we know that makes sense. Is that a thing?
Victoria Volk 36:48
Well, can you speak to that a little bit, just the fact that I want to circle back to the fact that you were married for 30 years, and then found yourself on your own. And so, you know, you don’t have that backup, you don’t have that support, you don’t have that. If he takes care of that I take care of this, all of a sudden, I’m taking care of everything, you’re taking care of everything. And so, can you speak to what that was like, because I don’t know what that’s like?
Tina Ginn 37:19
Well, I’ve never been on my own. So, it was very, very strange. And my girls would go everywhere with me, like we went shopping, grocery shopping, clothes shopping at like literally anything. They played avid softball, they got softball scholarships, they, I wanted to ensure that they were in a great place to get really good education and experience life experience. But for whatever happened to us, I’m not really sure. But maybe one day, they might hear this or see this or realize that, you know, don’t talk to somebody and wait too long. Because you don’t know what tomorrow will bring. You don’t know if that person is going to be there tomorrow. You know, you don’t, as a mom, you worry about your kids, even if you don’t see them every single day. But from a kid’s perspective to a mom, they’re on their own, they’re doing their thing. I’m sure they’re not thinking every day about their parents. You know, remember those days, but it’s like when you’re in your 20s. I don’t know, I think by me sharing my experiences now. It’s given me motivation and inspiration to help others. I’ve had too many clients call me at the edge of a deathbed of their parents usually saying how do I get where their bank accounts are? Tina? Where do I find out where their documents are? Where’s this? Where’s that? And my answer every single time is it’s too late. You don’t wait until they’re dying to find out anything. Because when the person is actually dying, they think that they’re not. There are not going to die. And why are you asking me those questions? So, it’s too late. You have to do these things. When everybody is fine. Everyone’s healthy or somewhat healthy. So even if like you said with your question, if you found out you have cancer, these are all things that you can get better prepared for either for yourself, as well as those that you love and care about around you. Because if something happened to them, you’re in the same boat looking after them. So, you might as well have them prepared to so yeah, it’s it’s So like a little family circle, like I like to call it, what will happen with my kids? Um, I’m not really sure, I hope that it’s not going to be a tragedy that brings them back to their mother. I wouldn’t want to wish that on anybody. I would hope that it would just be something they’ve seen or heard or a movie, that they go, like oh goes on and says, what are we doing? You know, life’s too short. This is ridiculous. So, we’ll see. We’ll see where it goes.
Victoria Volk 40:37
I’m sorry that that’s your experience. Right now. I can’t imagine as a mom; I have two girls and a boy. And I just what I think about now is Gosh, I hope they really love each other and get along when they’re older, that they know they have each other that they really look to each other for support. But it never has crossed my mind. Gee, I hope they want to come home. I hope they want to see me.
Tina Ginn 41:05
Yeah, it puts it right there.
Victoria Volk 41:08
Yeah, so I’m so sorry.
Tina Ginn 41:10
Well, it’s a lesson somewhere in there for all of us involved. Not sure what we’re supposed to learn. But there is a lesson in it somewhere.
Victoria Volk 41:19
I want to mention to something you mentioned about when they’re sitting at their parents’ deathbed, and they are in denial of their loved one dying, that was actually just brought up in my end of life, doula training, and how often that is the case where people deny the inevitable, they deny what’s actually happening. And I can speak from an advanced grief recovery methods specialist point of view, and also someone who watched their parent die, in that it separates you from the experience, when you are unable to acknowledge what is happening and what is inevitable. It keeps you from really embracing what’s possible in that moment. And what I’ve come to learn in the very short start of my training for the end-of-life doula is that it can be a very beautiful experience. And it’s very empowering, to really engage and put yourself in that experience with your whole heart. And you can’t do that if you’re denying what’s happening. So, I just wanted to bring that up.
Tina Ginn 42:34
That’s a good point. Because you also can’t be there like we talked about, if you’re worried about all the other stuff.
Victoria Volk 42:42
Yep. Exactly, exactly.
Tina Ginn 42:46
Fear, and you’re worried and you’re stressed and all of these things and, and it’s like being hit by a car. You know it, I wrote a book, it’s called in the blink of an eye. And it truly is, it’s in the blink of an eye. Even if you’ve been someone’s been suffering with cancer for six months, and then they pass away. At six-month mark, it’s still really in the blink of an eye.
Victoria Volk 43:14
It’s still sudden.
Tina Ginn 43:17
It just happens, even though you think you’re prepared. But are you?
Victoria Volk 43:23
Yeah, I just actually that came up not that long ago, how, even if you have the time, and you’re given that blessing of time to know that that’s what’s going to happen that you know, and doctors don’t get it all right all the time, oh, you have three months to live and then you live two years, you know, they don’t know at all, but I digress. Knowing that there’s an end cap right, to your life that’s coming changes the perspective and how you behave and act and the conversations you want to have and how you engage with life and and it’s just unfortunate, I find that it takes something tragic like that for us to really wake up.
Tina Ginn 44:03
And it does. Not sure why.
Victoria Volk 44:08
Yeah. Part of the life lesson that we each have to walk I suppose. What brings you the most joy nowadays?
Tina Ginn 44:16
ah, talking to the wonderful people like yourself all over the world every single week, hearing their stories and hearing their inspirations and helping people hearing their stories about you know, what’s happened with them and how it’s changed their lives and it’s so breathtaking. It’s it’s just so the experiences I can’t even have words for really, it’s it’s just, it makes you tingle really does. Because, you know, I’ve just taken something that you say well, why People say, well, there’s lots of stuff if you die, there’s lots of things. There’s grief counselors, and there’s all sorts of executor type of things. And there’s booklets, and all of that kind of stuff, but there’s nothing for the whole picture. There’s nothing for a car accident, there’s nothing for just going in for surgery and not really coming out in two or three days. You know, there’s nothing for losing your wallet. There’s nothing for a five-minute evacuation notice for wildfire. There’s all of these hurricanes, tornadoes, you know, there’s all of these types of tragedies, the cancer word, stroke, heart attack, there’s all of these experiences that we’re all going to have in some shape, or form. And I just want to help people make it easier. You know, if it can be easier, let’s do it because COVID has changed you lives.
Victoria Volk 46:01
Just think about the time to I’m just, when I think about, okay, if I had this app, or my loved ones had this app, the time that you spend in conversation, like you mentioned before, wasted, breath on things that really don’t matter, but still do need to be addressed. You could be talking about things that really are matters of the heart, that really do matter in that moment, right?
Tina Ginn 46:31
Or special toy that they played with, or their teddy bear or when did they learn how to ride a bike and all these little stories that you can help that person that is passing? Be there in the moment not say, hey, Mom, you know, did you tell me where those bank accounts are?
Victoria Volk 46:51
Right? Yeah, I mean, that’s yeah, if if only for one reason to be prepared, right? Is to have a quality of conversation when it matters.
Tina Ginn 47:05
Well, I’m make your life easier, even for yourself. If you had a five-minute evacuation, and you’re running around the house. Are you running around taking photos or you write videos? Are you running around not knowing what to grab? Like, what do you grab? photos? Do you grab documents like clothing? What do you grab, and if you don’t have that go to bag, then you know it’s just craziness and I’ve even had the five minute evacuation notice in the Okanagan and BC. And it’s not fun because you can smell it, you know, it’s it’s, it’s like the, the experience that we’ve all had with our cities of being closed down. It’s that eeriness, it’s that smoke where you can’t see the sun, it’s so smoky. And the bits of the fire are floating in the air, like from the trees, which, in fact, go and float somewhere else and start a fire somewhere else. But there’s all of this, you know, you can’t breathe, you can’t see you can’t smell you can smell it. It’s It’s so eerie. And here you are in that moment, trying to figure out what to grab out of your house.
Victoria Volk 48:22
That’s traumatic. It’s traumatic, I’m sure. Well, thank you for the work that you’re doing. I’m passionate about education around grief, obviously, soon around, end of life. I’m going to be speaking a lot more about that, I’m sure. And so, thank you for the work that you do. I would love to include your app as a resource on my website. Yeah, there was another gentleman, he was a guest on my podcast, too. He created an app for memories. Actually, after cloud, it’s called think there’s just beautiful things that can come out of the experience of grief and wonderful creators like yourself. So, thank you for creating this to make lives easier.
Tina Ginn 49:16
It truly is my passion. I feel it from every part of my soul. I think it’s definitely it’s just so exciting every day to think who you’re going to touch today and who you’re going to help.
Victoria Volk 49:35
Is there anything else you would like to share?
Tina Ginn 49:38
just you know, during COVID, it’s given us a very different experience than what we’re used to. This is our new normal and if anybody’s listening any listeners out there and I usually say this in most of my podcasts as well, but there’s someone special in your mind right now. someone that you love it care about on your mind. Reach Out and text them, call them message them today and tell them how much you love them. Because you never know what tomorrow will bring.
Victoria Volk 50:12
We don’t, we don’t. Where can people reach out to you if they would like to get in touch
Tina Ginn 50:19
Well, we have your backupplan.ca is the website and I’m on Instagram, your backup plan. Facebook, I have a Facebook group as well as a page, your backup plan, LinkedIn, Twitter, G, jeez, I’m on everything. I am everywhere.
Victoria Volk 50:42
Well, I will put some links in the show notes where people can find you to the app and also to your website. I will link all of that in the show notes in your book as well. In the blink of an eye, I was even going to ask you kind of I hear a book rumbling in here you came out with you have a book and I thought when you mentioned the TV show, I thought Hmm, maybe you could start with a YouTube channel. Are you on YouTube? You are on YouTube. Okay. And that’s on your pod on your website as well linked on your website as well.
Tina Ginn 51:14
Yeah, YouTube, it’s your backup plan.
Victoria Volk 51:21
Okay. Awesome. Thank you again for being here. Tina, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story and for the work that you’re putting out in the world.
Tina Ginn 51:29
Thank you for the opportunity. I love speaking about it and I love telling people that it can be easier. And this is how.
Victoria Volk 51:39
And remember when you unleash your heart you unleash your life. Much love.
Death/Dying, Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Pespective |
Darren Evans | Loss and Legacy
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In this episode, Darren shares how loss (and his son) inspired him to create a way to capture life’s most precious moments, support others through caregiving and loving gestures, and leave a legacy for future generations.
After Cloud is, as Darren calls it, a life-tech app; for sharing what needs to be said, capturing what you never want to forget, and connecting with loved ones in a way that is both easy and joy-filled.
Through his losses, which include his older brother as a kid, and his father to cancer, and his mother-in-law to Lewy body dementia, Darren also shares what he’s learned along the way about what’s important to him and what he values. AfterCloud is both a mission of service and one of life preservation. Because we never know when it’s our last day.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT WITH DARREN:
Victoria Volk 00:01
Thank you, thank you for tuning in to an episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Darren Evans. He is the CEO and founder of after cloud, which is a digital media app, vault, or app, I suppose, how you describe it, where people can use to celebrate occasions record family history. And his work comes from a deeply rooted loss in his life. And we’ll get more into that. But welcome, Darren, thank you for being here.
Darren Evans 00:36
It’s an absolute pleasure, Victoria, good to be here. Thank you.
Victoria Volk 00:40
So, let’s start there. Tell us about the work that you do.
Darren Evans 00:47
Um, so, I mean, aren’t my work is fairly recent, it’s sort of a timely question about after cloud, it’s a bit of both. It’s an app currently, with a view to being a platform. And what it does is it helps people to capture their moments in multiple content types to create that moment. Right now, actually, it’s being used in dementia related services, in hospice care, older people services as well, and predominantly around activity types. So as an example, if you’ve got an art therapist, or a music therapist, or a therapist providing services, it allows them to capture those moments so that the individual can share those moments with family in a closed group setting. So that’s ultimately what it does. It also has the ability to future post. So potentially posthumous postings. So that’s essentially what after cloud is, but but the journey first started really, when my mother-in-law passed away two years ago. We’re actually working on another app at the time, which was essentially a digital advent calendar. So, my job was my wife’s idea I can’t take credit or responsibility for it was my wife’s idea that she wanted to do something for her sister’s 50th birthday, I think it was at the time. So, when we looked around, there was nothing really much available. So, we started to develop this app. But at the same time, we were counting from my mother-in-law, who had this very aggressive form of Lewy body dementia. And she, she, she died from it, it was very, as I say, very aggressive. And my son, who was 11, at the time said to us, can’t we do something for families or for people that are in a similar predicament? I think what it was is, when she died, we realize that most we had a, you know, lifetime of wonderful memories. There was nothing really tangible or anywhere to go together those things, you know that we’ve got your couple of pictures, and we’ve got, we’ve actually found once one video sense of her dancing in this sort of birthday celebration, I think it was. But that’s it. So, nothing really much. And we thought, you know, we, we don’t really do this in in family circles. I mean, there’s social media, of course, which is public. And there are ways and means to capture different things. But we, when my son said this, the light bulb went and, you know, as I say, I’ve been working in health and social care for 20 years. And I reached out to people. And once there’s lots of clinical systems in place, there wasn’t really anything for the individual. And that was really where we were looking at initially, that end of life space really.
Victoria Volk 03:53
As you were talking, I was reflecting on to thinking back to I don’t know if you’ve seen it at all, but and I’ve referenced it a couple times and blog posts and things, but have you seen or heard of the Netflix docu series surviving death?
Darren Evans 04:09
I haven’t. We have we we have a similar model. I don’t know if it’s similar at all. But Ricky Gervais has a Netflix serie, After Life. Oh, and it’s an I’ve only seen any sort of become aware of it, I guess in the last six or 12 months, but certainly someone pointed out to me that, oh my gosh, your app looks similar to to Ricky Gervais’s afterlife. And when you watch the series, you’ll see his wife has created these videos for him for when she’s gone. You know, don’t forget to do the washing on this degree and don’t forget that you’ll need to redo the insurance or renew the insurance on this date and little things that will help him assist Obviously from his Greek perspective, he is constantly looking at these videos. Just to sort of stay in touch, I guess, with his with his wife. But I’ve not seen the other one that you mentioned, no.
Victoria Volk 05:12
Yeah, it’s only six episodes. But every episode is a different aspect of end of life. So, there’s a couple episodes on talking about mediums. There’s one on reincarnation, there’s one specifically on end of life like seeing, like, the visions and things that people see towards the end of life. And I know we talked briefly before but going into end-of-life doula training coming up soon, I can see where this would be such a value piece that I can mention and give as a resource for loved ones, too. Because is this correct? It’s, it’s almost like, like, it can be like a family group, sort of thing to.
Darren Evans 06:03
Yeah, sort of, I mean, that’s that that’s certainly where we’re going right now, the individual can invite people into their circle. So that closed group setting, so it’s secure. But it’s an invite only. So as an individual, download the app, and then you invite your relatives into your circle. And you can do you know, that works both ways, of course. But what we’ve also built into the app is the ability for a companion. So, there are essentially three, use the types of currently anyway, three use type. So, you’ve got the individual patient, the loved one, a family member, and then a companion. And that companion effectively is a doula or some or end of life practitioner that can assist with, you know, helping someone with their content if they’ve not got the ability to do it themselves. And interestingly, I was I was last March, I was invited on to one of the basic doula foundation courses here in the UK. So, So I’ve kind of been through that process myself, and it was all new to me, I have to say I was very emotional, as well, to you know, just to learn to go through those processes. I was very fortunate to be invited by Felicity Warner, who runs absolved midwives here in the UK. And it’s fascinating. I’ve never actually heard the term doula before in my life. So it wasn’t, it was new to me.
Victoria Volk 07:27
I actually hadn’t either.
Darren Evans 07:29
No. Its interesting, isn’t it?
Victoria Volk 07:30
Yeah, I saw the term death doula. And I’m like, oh, what’s a death doula?
Darren Evans 07:35
It does sound harsh, doesn’t it? It’s even to me now I find it harsh, which is why I say end of life practitioner because it’s got that gentle kind of tongue tone to it. But yeah, death doula. So, it was new to me, as I say they call them soul midwives, soul companions and other things here in UK. But yeah, yeah. Completely enlightened by actually.
Victoria Volk 07:58
Can we bring up a little bit about because you touched on it before we started recording, but I’m interested in like, the cultural differences, because you’re in the UK. And you kind of touched on a little bit about how, you know the culture, there is a little bit stiff upper lip when it comes to feelings and emotions. And I can tell you in in German country, it’s no different. No, I’m in the German heritage background area. And it’s no different. But I’m curious how that has played out in your grief.
Darren Evans 08:36
Yeah, just a quick question, then then consider checking off
Victoria Volk 08:40
just a little bit. A little bit, or should I say Ich liebe dich, I love you.
Darren Evans 08:44
Yes, I mean, I lived I lived in Germany for a little bit, which is why I asked the question. There. Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess to answer your question, yeah, I find it you know, I’ve been having these, these conversations now across the globe, really, in relation to off the cloud, with end-of-life practitioners, clinicians, lots of different people that are involved in end of life care or, or dementia care or, or palliative care in the community. And culturally, I find it a little bit more advanced in Australia, and the US, and Canada. Predominantly, I think those three markets really are leading in terms of that interdisciplinary approach to end-of-life care. So that holistic kind of joined up approach. I think there’s a bit more forward. In the UK, I think we’re a little bit behind the curve. We, I mean, Cicely Saunders, obviously created hospice hospice care here in the UK, you know, and that model has now been reflected, you know, across the globe, but I think we’re very much practitioner or clinician led at end of life in the UK and we’ve got a little bit of catch Up to do with I think sometimes just letting go and letting people who have that compassion or that empathy to apply practical end of life experiences both for the individual and for family members but but uh but you know that’s a personal opinion. There’ll be a lot that disagree with that. And I you know and that’s that’s for them to disagree with, but I think having these conversations you do get a sense of where the community I don’t like pulling our market, but the certainly the community is leading and paving the way and as I say, Australia, Canada, USA, for sure.
Victoria Volk 10:35
There is a doctor too on that surviving death series. researcher and you know, he’s very much academic, but mentions us in Europe, and I say he’s in the UK as well. But but in Europe, I can’t remember exactly where but he does mention that to know, it’s this very, death is like this. It’s almost I don’t I can’t even explain how, yeah, I’m not sure how he worded it. So I get it wrong, no matter what I say. alluded to the same thing you did anyway.
Darren Evans 11:05
Yeah, I think because it is the unspoken word. I mean, even now. You know, we have we have a guest book, The D word, just to do to it. And you know, there’s a there’s a health radio, UK health radio show called the D word as well, because I think he we don’t use that word. And, you know, part of our process, certainly, part of what we see is our responsibility for after cloud is that we normalize it, we normalize the word, you know, this is something I found out as well through conversation, but around the bend. If you’re going around the bend, that’s an old phrase for mental illness. And that’s because in Victorian times, they placed we call them hospitals, but they placed them around the bend. So they’re out of the way out of eyesight from the general population. And that’s that meant, you know, if you were going around the bend, you were going to a mental institution, and again, it’s that sort of Victorian, you know, again, I think, morbidity as an example. So if someone died back in Victoria, you were aware of someone grieving because they were all in black, they were dressed in black, the curtains would be shut, whereas we don’t have that. Now, nowadays, you don’t know if someone’s grieving, unless they tell you specifically, we don’t we don’t we don’t mourn the way we used to mourn with the curtain shut and wearing black times are changing. And as I say, I think this period that we will find ourselves in, we found ourselves in through COVID, as kind, I’ve already said, but mentioned that in everybody is now fully implicitly where there are mortality, because it’s been presented to us by the media, you know, front and center stage in a multitude of colors. And I think that it’s it’s, it’s horrid time as it may be, but it’s but it’s it, I think it’s lessened the impact of the word death. And it’s starting to normalize the compensation for the general general population.
Victoria Volk 13:06
And one of my missions to starting this podcast was to get men to help society talk about grief, like we talked about the weather, and it’s an intro, because that’s it, that is about normalizing it, hearing other people’s stories, and that’s how we relate is their story. And we see ourselves in other people’s stories. And if people feel a sense of hope, after they listen to someone’s story on my podcast, that’s really what I’m what I’m shooting for. So your app would be hope for someone who’s in the process or experiencing, you know, someone who’s going through a terminal illness or like dementia or something like that.
Darren Evans 13:50
I was gonna say that’s an interesting one as well, because when we started this journey, as I mentioned, it was from a grief place. It was initially directed at end of life. And when we started our early discussions with people in hospice care, or in palliative care in the community, they don’t want to talk about death. They’re aware of the process they’re going through, but they absolutely don’t want to talk about death, or that that journey, people with dementia are aware that they’re losing their memory slowly but surely, and they’re more than happy to talk about that journey. And they’re more than happy to have those conversations and have the appropriate planning in place. So it’s, I found that fascinating myself actually, just those those two channels of thought. So we have slightly realigned it to open it up to more of a life tech kind of app. Because it is it you know, we’ve got, we’ve got my to give you two instances, interestingly, at one dealer in the states that two weeks into the beta became a grandmother. So her daughter started capturing moments within off the cloud. In the beta form of that process, so we’ve there’s a child there in the states that is now 15 weeks old that is being captured, or her moments of being captured the really important moments of being captured, which is fantastic. We have another doula Karen in New Zealand, who said, Actually, I’m going to turn this around and show my parents how they’ve impacted my life, not the other way around. So we sit more of a life tech app as opposed to the other end of the spectrum.
Victoria Volk 15:27
Well, here’s the thing we don’t know when our time is, right?
Darren Evans 15:31
No, we really don’t know. I’ve been posting more recently, actually is, what if today is your last? Or what if there are no more no more tomorrow’s it’s kind of a little bit like, I don’t like phrasing it like this. But insurance is kind of I want to create those moments or write those letters that I want to write before it’s too late. So let’s do it. Let’s just put them at least start capturing them.
Victoria Volk 15:54
I love that it’s like is that it could be a way to document your life.
Darren Evans 15:59
Yeah, yeah, we’ve got people that are journaling, storytelling. As I say, art therapy, music therapy, music is fast, fascinating. Because with the music therapist that we’re working with, in fact, one in particular, actually, Sandra, who’s in Ireland, she shows album covers to her to the patients in the hospital, is actually a nursing home. But she, she shows them album covers, and of course, it instinctively takes them back to that day that they might have played the album with their friends or family. Them she’ll pick a track from the album and play the track for them. And again, it invokes those emotions that they had at that time. So straightaway, it takes them back to that to that occasion. And, of course, it can be captured there. And then and shared with family and friends. We’re doing a bit of work in VR as well, because VR does a similar thing. You know, virtual reality headsets where it can take someone back to a time or a place, or location, and really invoke those memories. There’s a lot of research actually taking place in that in that area now from a psychological perspective. So the potential is that we’re working with various universities, from a cost psychology perspective on on that process. I mean, it’s early days yet, but that’s that’s certainly where it’s going, I think.
Victoria Volk 17:15
Dr. Kris Kerr, he is in that surviving death series. And he is he’s a palliative hospice care doctor. And so he had done a lot of research in end of life experiences of his patients, and documented what they were seeing and experiencing leading up to no, as they were beginning their transition with terminal illness. Yeah. And he actually referenced something, you had just what you just said something. And that made me think of that, but he has, in his TED Talk, he talks about a soul, an older gentleman who’s dying, and he was a soldier he was, and World War Two. And one of his visions was, it was very traumatic for him. He was having these flashbacks of, because his job was to transport the bodies. And his visions were really traumatic. And then they switched. And a soldier came to him and said, soon they will be coming for you. But it was a very comforting thing. And the vision, the affordable vision stopped, that horrible dream stopped, and suddenly he felt comforted by his comrades were coming for him. It’s just a really beautiful illustration of how the deeply rooted pains in our hearts come back to us as we’re transitioning to us, in a way, spiritually, on a soul level. Yeah. I mean, we could go very deep there, but I think I just made me think of that. I don’t know why.
Darren Evans 19:00
Well, no, I think we’re talking about trauma. I think there’s gonna be a lot of trauma related, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from frontline workers, you know, they’ve been going through what the hell, I wouldn’t say that the sheer amount of work and exhaustion that they’re seeing currently, and this is, you know, everybody that’s involved in that provision of care are exhausted, they’re exhausted. And what a fantastic job they’re all doing. It’s just incredible, but I do foresee a need a huge need for them to be supported. When we do eventually come out of this horrible time. I think it’s imperative that they get the support. Whether it’s holidays or you know, rest and recuperation, as we used to call it in the in the in the forces, you’ll know that. I think it’s fundamentally important that they’re supported in his best way they can possibly be supportive because they’ve been doing a tremendous job. Yeah, but I think so. Post Traumatic Stress, I know whether or not that that that comes for three grief as well, again, I don’t know, but you you’re probably best placed to serve me.
Victoria Volk 20:06
In grief recovery, we say that trauma is what happens in grief is what’s left.
Darren Evans 20:10
Yeah. And I think that shock as well.
Victoria Volk 20:13
So I’m curious then how are you using this app in your life?
Darren Evans 20:19
And that’s a great question because we are so close to it, most of the time it was test. So, test, test, test, and I’ve been capturing all sorts of things. Just yesterday, as an example, we went out for quite a lengthy walk in the countryside. Just to get that fresh, I mean, it’s cold, but just to get that fresh air, but we took some video footage there. And then what we tend to do those we post it for the following day off within a few days, which is, which is great. I mean, it’s still there, it’s in draft or it’s published, it’s either or, but we know we have that content. And again, my son, and my wife actually wanted me to give my son a piggyback, just getting captured that sort of moment really, of being in being so we do things like that as family. But most of the time it’s actually test, as opposed to sort of my life moments. I think that’s because I’m really, really close to the app, I guess. But you know, I have written letters, just to just to give an example, you within within the app itself, you can search create a moment, you can upload an image, you can upload a video, or take a video in app, you can record your voice. You can write or dictate a letter, or all of those things combined, to make a moment. So what we’ve what we say to people is imagine you’ve got an old photo. Well, that’s great. That’s an old photo, but what memories does it invoke what you know, tell us about the time that that happened? And of course, you can embellish that with it with an audio or, or a letter if you wanted to, just to explain it. I mean, we’ve got I digress away from the question, but we’ve got people that now one patient that that’s in our working group, his mum gave him some recipes. And so he wants to maintain the family recipes. And given to his kids. He’s also writing goodbye letters as well, they want to call it goodbye letters. I spoke to somebody else about this last week. And maybe they should be Hello letters, unoccupied letters. So again, it’s just a different take on it. But you can use it for all sorts of things. We are ourselves capturing video, really an audio, a little bit of audio as well, because again, it’s the voice that strap mine that we have on our website. It’s her voice I miss the most I wish I could hear her again. Those words are actually from one of our board advisors, Roberta Chela, who she’s head of quality of life in hc one is sort of one of the largest residential providers here in the UK. But she lost her mum at a very young age, I guess similar to yourself. And I think she was 12 but she had a tape recording of a voicemail of her mum, and she lost the tape. And that’s a story in itself. In fact, she Roberta is going to be writing for us later in the year as a guest blog, all about that journey and all about that story. But when I started speaking to Roberta about this and she told me this I wrote it down. And it just encapsulates everything that after cloud is about it’s I have her voice I miss the most I wish I could hear her again. And of course, you can with after cloud if you capture it now it’s there for posterity. It’s there for future generations.
Victoria Volk 23:53
Yeah, well and I can say to I wish I would love to hear my dad’s voice.
Darren Evans 23:59
Hmm. Do you have many memories? Do you have you know footage or?
Victoria Volk 24:04
there’s no video and all of my I maybe have 10 pictures? Yeah. mean? My question though, is to I can see this as being something helpful for busy moms, young kids that may not necessarily have maybe the financial means to purchase a nice camera or video, like a video camera or something like that. And we all have our phones but you know, you get your pictures in one app, you got your videos that for someone who might be terrible about printing day because I was I was a photographer and my kids my youngest always reminds me that she’s got no baby book. And her siblings have like a baby book in the scrapbook. But yeah, the printing thing is an issue for me. So how Notice that I’m asking for myself. So to document my children’s birthdays or school concert or, you know, an accomplishment or something like that, how does that work? Like, how can you print from it? And is it a monthly subscription? Like, do you like how does that work? Like, do you have access as long as you are a subscriber? Or how does that work?
Darren Evans 25:28
Yeah, that’s a great question. So, I’ll answer the first question for the first part of the question first, and then I’ll come on to subscriptions. So printing is just well, as an example, you have your phone, you mentioned already, you can print from phone, just just by hooking it up with a USB or whatever you can, you can, you can do that for sure. All of those moments you, you catch up in app. So, as I say, whether it’s an image of video voice, or a letter, and letters can be dictated in app as well. So, you can speak to the app. And it will dictate your letter, you might have to edit little bits, depending upon, you know, your voice saw accent or tonation. But you can do all that in app. So that’s that’s the first thing to create that moment, or multi, multiple content types to create the moment in relation to subscription model, yes. So, it will be free, there will be a free base version for everybody to make use of absolutely, really, really imperative to us that there is that free model for people to utilize. But then, depending upon your needs and requirements. We embellish that product range as a subscription-based model. But again, very, very affordable, subscription-based model. Of course, that’s not released yet and won’t be released. Now, I don’t think until about maytime, which possibly might coincide with the Airdate of this podcast.
Victoria Volk 26:51
Yeah, yeah.
Darren Evans 26:54
But we, that’s the sort of that’s the sort of timeline we’re looking at at the moment. The beta is currently 15 weeks in trial. Fantastic feedback from with just Friday, had our first video interview, which is a dementia patient, who’s also a patient advocate. And he loves it. He thinks it’s fantastic for dementia patients, which I’m really, really proud of actually have to say. It’s Yeah. Fabulous. Doing something positive for someone. Yes. Tremendous. But yeah, subscription-based model, depending upon needs and requirements. I think from an ethical standpoint, we’re only going to guarantee 10 years. And I mean that in a genuine way in that I think it would be wrong averse to stipulate lifelong 199 years or, you know, I am aware of another platform, which this got these 99 years. And I think well, how can you absolutely say that you? Who knows what’s gonna happen tomorrow, but certainly 10 years, I think is, is a generalization and you can capture today. So going back to this, the anniversaries and the birthdays and those scenarios that you mentioned, I can, I mentioned already, my mom’s birthday is in September, and she’s gonna be 81. I could record a video message today and publish it for the first of September, which is my mom’s birthday. Knowing that she’s going to get that on her birthday and not before.
Victoria Volk 28:22
For me, I like that. Its just forgetting and especially those first of the month, birthdays that kind of sneak up on you and you flip the calendar, it’s like, shoot.
Darren Evans 28:34
it’s one of those things you can do whenever you feel comfortable about doing it and not have to worry about it again, you know, it’s, but But yeah, I think if you know, your daughter’s play at school, absolutely capturing in in the app, taking video, or different types of content, however you want to do that. And then it will be saved as a draft, but you can publish it and you can publish it to your daughter if you wanted to. Or you can publish it to yourself either the following day, or anytime in the future, knowing full well it will be there captured and safe in the cloud, as in after cloud.
Victoria Volk 29:11
So, tell me about the name.
Darren Evans 29:13
Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. So, it was actually my CTO, Anthony came up with the name after cloud, which I thought was fantastic. It’s sort of we were toying with treasured for a while, as in, you know, a box full of treasures. And we were talking about with the name initially for it. For us, it was imperative that every stakeholder was catered for. So not only the individual, but also the loved one. So we have this grief cafe, as well as a support mechanisms community based support mechanism, so free to attend once a month, and is actually growing this community. But the name after cloud was was as I say, we were just chatting away one day, over coffee talking about the app talking about iteration Have the app. So before lockdown, so this was last sort of February time. And he said the word off after, after, after cloud on as soon as he said it, I kind of wrote it down. So that is it. That’s that’s just a fantastic article app. And that’s it. Yeah. And it’s been after kind of since we did it was called my off the cloud because of the URL. But then we realized, actually, the URL can remain my off the path because it’s yours. But the app itself is off the cloud.
Victoria Volk 30:30
Well, and if you have a group, it’s kind of our after cloud,
Darren Evans 30:37
Yeah. Yeah. It’s everybody’s off the cloud. That’s, I think that’s another Yeah, it’s a really good point.
Victoria Volk 30:44
So, let’s bring back the story to your mother-in-law. And that experience and what I mean, you kind of spoke to what prompted the creation of the app, but you care to speak more about that loss?
Darren Evans 31:03
Yeah, I think it was really the first grief journey that I’ve had close to us, I guess, in quite a while. I mean, my dad died. My dad suffered from cancer. I think when when I was six months old, they gave him six weeks to live. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 31:23
I’m so sorry.
Darren Evans 31:04
No, its life is part of life, isn’t it? And I think, you know, my, if I look at my life, actually, talking about grief. I lost my mum. I didn’t use my mum; my mum lost her son. So, I was four years old, and my older brother, I have two older brothers. And I lost one of my older brothers through a road traffic accident, he was knocked over by a car. And he was only seven at the time. So, the trauma that she went through as a mum, I just can’t imagine. I wouldn’t want to imagine. But I know that she was heavily traumatized at the time. But she had a child, two children, an older one and a young one to take care of, and kind of got on with life, I guess, in that respect. But my dad cancer really lifelong. From the time I was born, but to say six months old, again, six weeks to live. And he turned and said to my mom, she will vouch for me when she says this. Well, I’m not gonna go anywhere. Yeah, I’m gonna wait till my kids are old enough to look after themselves. And he did. We all grew up. He went through radiation. He lost his bottom jaw. Yeah, yeah. He was really one of the very early pioneers of radiation treatment for cancer therapy comes from the throat. And, but also skin grafts and things like I mean, skin grafts and operation after operation and trying to, you know, put his face back together, really, I guess, but none of that worked. And was he able to talk he was able to talk? I can understand him, whatever he said, and I think that’s why he liked having me around from time to time, you know, and I mentioned to you before I went off and joined the army and came back and he was, you know, he wouldn’t go out much, because people would stare. But with me, he feels protected, I guess, to an extent. So that was nice. Yeah, but but so. Yeah, I guess my grief journey has been lifelong. I think you’re my mother-in-law died two years ago, impacted more, I think on my wife. It’s really her first major loss. She didn’t lose her dad, again, through cancer a few years back, but I think losing her mum, in such an aggressive through such an aggressive disease, as Lewy body dementia is. Well, it was in this in this occasion, it doesn’t have to be I mean, I know people that have Lewy body dementia that had it for 10 years and are still living well. Even though they there is a cognitive decline. But But through this, it was very, very quick. And so, my wife, I think it’s impacted my wife more. And still does because grief, as you know, is a lifelong journey. And as, you know, my son as well, because it was him that, you know, spark sparked sincere interest about after cloud. Again, I can’t really take full credit or responsibility for it. It was it was he was the one that sort of intimated wouldn’t be grateful to do something for other people in similar predicament. So yeah,
Victoria Volk 34:44
Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I could talk more with the loss of your father because it just fascinates me that he was able to survive that long, but I just want to highlight though, and just kind of reflect back to you that if he never left the house or he, you know, wouldn’t leave the house that would have that alone, restricted the experiences you could have had with him to not. I mean,
Darren Evans 35:13
yeah, yeah, I think he probably did. But he did. I mean, he worked. Even even with with this facial disfigurement. He worked, you know, he, he carried on, he just, he was assigned, you know, ex-soldier himself, but he carried on working, you know, and he works in a college. And I would imagine that he probably gets stared at time and time and time and time again, I think what he didn’t do was go out socially, you know, restaurants or those types of environment, he would go to work and come home. And you know, I’d sit up and watch him come in. And in that sense, everything was quite normal. And I didn’t know anything different, apart from, you know, he was my dad. And as I say, I found it easy to comprehend and understand him because I’d always known him, but for the people, they would struggle. And I think towards towards the latter part of his life, it was worse. But I think that’s because he maybe got lazy. I don’t know. I think maybe just you there comes a point when you just, I’m not going to repeat myself again, because I’ve already said that once. But I got it. Straight away. I knew what he was saying he kind of, you know, yeah. But as I say, I didn’t start didn’t know anything different, I guess.
Victoria Volk 36:33
I suppose. Yeah, I suppose if you’re pretty much born into that experience, you wouldn’t know when you make the distinction to have loose body dementia, versus, like, dementia that maybe most people are familiar with?
Darren Evans 36:52
I’m not an expert in any way shape, or form in dementia, or Alzheimer’s or any relief related disease, only that with my mother-in-law, when I say aggressive, two years, probably from that initial, okay, something’s not quite right here to death. And in that sense, it was it was quick. And I think, latterly those those last sort of few months, we were so my, my, my wife and my sister in law were was sort of caring, they were caring for my mother in law, the primary care is essentially, and we were sharing that responsible responsibility between us as families, you know, mom would spend a little bit of time in our house here, and then we drive an hour and a half, two hours. And swap, swap, swap over the rolls, just to give each other a bit of respite, because it is, it’s hard work. You care with empathy and compassion. It’s my mother in law. But my wife probably needed that break every two or three weeks, you know,
Victoria Volk 38:01
Because you’re grieving during that process too because you’re losing a little bit of that person every day.
Darren Evans 38:06Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I look back now, and I wish we had alpha cloud, then really, that’s not a plug, it’s just, if we’ve captured some of those moves, I remember Actually, I remember vividly walking my mother-in-law at the front of her house, just up and down the road. Because slowly but surely, she was losing the ability to do that. So, we do that and I give her a bar of chocolate, she loved eating chocolate. So, I’d say you know, there’s there’s been chocolate and a scarf for one sheet of face would light up because she knew that, you know, there’s a reward at the end of it for chocolate, you know, and I know it sounds harsh, but it was a great way of kind of maintaining that ability to do something. And of course, that that slowly declined as well. But we, I guess, towards the end, anything we could do with whether whether it was a small pot or yoga or or, or a chocolate-based mousse, or something because you start to lose, I think Lewy Body Anyway, you start to lose that cognitive ability to swallow to taste to function. And of course, if that’s happening, you can see it physically on the outside, internally, it must be a whole week worse. And of course, that’s it’s a steady regression. It’s a steady decline. As I say, I’m not an expert, far from it, but I do talk to experts and I do talk to a lot of people that are, you know, providing specialist dimension-based care. So, I kind of learn little bits here and there.
Victoria Volk 39:40
I worked in a nursing home when I was a teenager and there was a devoted Alzheimer’s unit specifically for Alzheimer’s residents. Yeah, I just I can’t imagine what that is like to care for someone a loved one. That’s losing a little bit of every day in the grieving starts. And I think that’s true with terminal illness too. You know, what’s, you know what’s coming. But at least with terminal illness, you have a cognitive that doesn’t come in and out.
Darren Evans 40:16
No, no, yeah, we’re doing for some fascinating work in older people services, then with your virtual reality headsets. And taking people back to those moments in time where they can enjoy themselves. Even when they’ve not got a tremendous amount of cognitive ability. There might be some the chair as an example, in the nursing home, they can still be taken back to that magical moment, and you can still put a smile on their face. I love that. I mean, that, for me is just heartwarming, I, all of those things, the more we can do for people, the more we can just have that empathy and compassion and put the smile back on my face, the better in my view, and I’m all for the dignity.
Victoria Volk 41:01
What is your grief experiences taught you?
Darren Evans 41:06
Oh, that’s a question. For me, I think it’s just having the understanding, really, and even more so for employers interesting. I mean, I, we posted a blog post, just recently, and I wrote a personal piece about the actual guest posts, because I experienced grief in the workplace in a corporate environment. And nobody knew nobody understood, nobody even asks, asked, actually, they couldn’t really care. And I’m sure they could have known but they didn’t necessarily care. And I think it’s a duty of all employers to have the duty of care really, for their employers, you know, if you’ve got someone that is bereaved, or in a state of shock, through grief, they’re not going to be performing at the best or they they’re not going to be producing the goods, so to speak, or the numbers. And so the one thing I’ve learned is, as an employer, to have that respect, to give people the time that they need and the space they need, I think, to grieve. And that’s different for everybody, or at least the support mechanisms to assist people to grieve because again, I think that that’s something that’s, that’s, that’s missing, I think, really in the modern workplace. And of course, we’re all grieving now, aren’t we? Not through bereavement, but just grief of loss? You know, we were grieving for the little simple pleasures that we once took for granted. You know, I mean, wouldn’t it be great just to go to a coffee shop and have a coffee and sit down with a slice of cake? I mean, that just that simple pleasure.
Victoria Volk 42:52
Sit in a coffee shop? Yeah?
Darren Evans 42:55
We can’t do it, you know, when we were in lockdown, or in the UK, certainly, we’re in lockdown. Everything shut. And, and this is now the third lockdown that we’ve had. And I think from a mental perspective, as well, so mental health and well being, it’s gonna affect people, isn’t it? I think there’s going to be fallout from that.
Victoria Volk 43:12
This is never gonna end. Like, if you don’t see the light, yeah, you don’t feel or see this light at the end of the tunnel. And I just want to highlight the point that you said about employers, because thank you for saying that. And I think it’s, it’s looking at that role that you play as an employer as one with compassion and empathy. Because I gave a talk, actually, to my company, about grief and bereavement and, you know, most employers only offer or days, bereavement time or days. Yeah, all right, back at it lickety split, join like
Darren Evans 43:51
madness, absolute madness, I think really, for me, in a corporate environment, and I’m talking, you know, large employers that that have, you know, an extensive workforce, there should be an appropriately qualified bereavement officer, you know, call it a chief bereavement officer, they got, they got Chief Information Officers, chief executive officers, they got chief financial officers, they got chief officers for everything, but not bereavement. Why?
Victoria Volk 44:18
You know, maybe I should pitch myself to my company. Hey, why not? Yeah, my own job within the company.
Darren Evans 44:24
But what do I think, I think? I think employees need to take responsibility. They take responsibility in every other aspect of our life, they pay us our wages and etc, etc. that needs to be ownership, I think in terms of grief as well. To get the best from your workforce,
Victoria Volk 44:42
it’s just caring, just caring.
Darren Evans 44:46
It really is being human.
Victoria Volk 44:49
Yeah, kindness and caring. Go back to the basics. Like, think of empathy is like the ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. What would you need? What would you hope For, yeah, and I think too, that’s where I’m glad the conversation around grief is starting to change, and people are talking about it more, because more people then gain an understanding that it’s not about picking yourself up from your bootstraps, and, you know, driving on, it’s just a part of life, you know, that life death life, you know, we’re all gonna die, you know, this cold is called disconnected approach to our mortality. But also, then, that’s also looking at other people’s losses that that way as well, it’s distancing yourself from being vulnerable with someone, getting in that space with them, being comfortable getting in that space with them, and a lot of people are very uncomfortable doing that, because they haven’t connected within themselves and what they have lost.
Darren Evans 45:56
Yeah, that’s fascinating, you know, because I think it’s, you mentioned the here and now and having those meaningful conversations. It absolutely is about that. I started to well up when I was talking about my dad, you know, in taking him out and it cost there’s there’s that emotion because it took me right back to that of how he must feel. Yeah, so that’s, that’s something I’ve got to look at, I think inwardly, too, because it does it kind of evokes that emotion. Yeah, yeah. But no, having these meaningful conversations, being in here, and now present, as a human to human. I think it’s really, really important for everybody. Really, really, hmm.
Victoria Volk 46:38
So, during those days, when it was really difficult for your wife, or your family, I kind of liked to ask to like, what, what does give you joy, like what? In all the grief that you’ve experienced, throughout your grief, experience, what is giving you the most joy, and hope for the future?
Darren Evans 47:02
I think it’s the simple things in truth, I think it’s the little things that we just probably take for granted. My son, as an example, turns 13, this week, that gives us joy, no idea where the time is gone. But my wife, and I’ve been planning meticulously to try and do something nice, Ronnie, it’s a different way of living the kids I, I fear for them in terms of their mental stability as well, because, you know, they, they’re not seeing friends at school, they’re not having those interactions that we had as kids, but I do I am very, very thankful for technology. He, he is gamer. And there’s a little clique of gamers that you know, pretty much daily, certainly after school, when the works done, they will all just, you know, the play ship or thieves or mine call one of those get, you know,
Victoria Volk 47:54
My son is too.
Darren Evans 47:56
Yeah, it’s beyond me. But again, just talking to parents, as well is, thank goodness, they’ve got that, that, you know, they they’ve still got that ability to connect with each other, even virtually, you know, in this type of environment, but they’re still, you know, problem solving as an example in games. You know, they’re still using that sort of similar behavior to problem solve, which is fantastic. I see it as a benefit with a my wife agrees with me on that. I don’t know. But But yeah, I see it as a benefit for going back to your question. I think just the little things, really what gives us joy, for me seeing a smile on my wife’s face, knowing she’s grieving, knowing she’s still going through those hardships, that grief journey can take you down or on. And, you know, as is peaks and troughs, and you’ll know this yourself up and down, up and down, depending upon scenario. But it’s understanding that and have an empathy for that really, and not reacting. Or at least understanding that it’s probably grief that he’s doing this. But yeah, I think just just knowing that there will be a time when we do get back to normality of some description, that’s something to look forward to, I think, for all of us, and hope for the future. You know, hope that you know, people will have more empathy. When we come out of this. I’ve seen it myself during this time that people have been a lot more connected families have been more connected more than ever, actually. Even in a virtual environment. You know that when we had the first lockdown, you saw families having quiz nights together. I mean, they’re not as common now actually. But initially having Quizlet that was never even thought of before when none of us did this as families. families were quite disconnected and unless it was a wedding or a funeral or some kind of family celebration, you wouldn’t just connect really now as an example I find my mum every day I speak to every day I can see her every day on my video on phone, choose off cloud interest in the so she’s writing things for me but Connect with my brothers. I got two brothers younger and an older mentioned we lost the one but my younger brother who was nine years between us and this six years to my older brother, we’ll all get together on a chat with my mom. We didn’t we’d never done that ever before. And had it not have been for this time. I don’t think we ever would. So there are there are some good things that have come out of this as well, I think and I think that connectivity that humanity, compassion, the kindness that we’ve all seen, I hope that Well, I hope that that carries on. I hope it continues. I hope that people don’t lose that.
Victoria Volk 50:35
Let that be the virus that spreads, right?
Darren Evans 50:39
Oh, I’m gonna write that down. That’s brilliant.
Victoria Volk 50:43
Quote me on that then.
Darren Evans 50:46
I will indeed I will click on that. That’s fantastic.
Victoria Volk 50:49
Let joy and love be the virus that spreads.
Darren Evans 50:52
Yeah, I know. That’s it. That’s it. Twitter isn’t so kind of tweet, I think that comes out of this. Yeah, I think we put some more. Yeah, I’m going to leave that for you. That’s your quote. And I think it’s a fantastic quote.
Victoria Volk 51:04
You can you can put it anywhere and just put my name on it. That’s fine.
Darren Evans 51:08
I could do indeed, that joy and love be the virus that spreads.
Victoria Volk 51:13
Or may joy and love be the virus that spreads.
Darren Evans 51:16
May joy and love be the virus like it’s post pandemic.
Victoria Volk 51:20
Now, just just overall. Yeah,
Darren Evans 51:24
yeah. Now, that’s a lovely, lovely thought. But I say, you know, just just that compassionate empathy. I mentioned earlier that I’ve been volunteering since since the outbreak. So just in my local community and the way I live in small village, and we have so many volunteers that give their time freely to help others. And only again, I don’t think we’d have seen that had it not been for a pandemic. So again, hope that continues. I hope that that human connectivity continues because they love it. I just thank you for the work that you do. Oh, no, thank you for yours. I think it’s having these conversations is really, really important. I think it really, really important. And, yeah, God bless you as well.
Victoria Volk 52:12
So where can people reach you? If they would like to connect with you?
Darren Evans 52:17
Okay, great. I’m on LinkedIn, Darren Evans. They can email me Darren at the logic that’s DYLOGIC. code at UK. My son’s name is Dylan, hence the D logic. Because he’s always applying it has been from a young age. The website is myaftercloud all one word. So myaftercloud.com. And again, you can register on the site. And the app is downloadable through the app store. So, after cloud as an app.
Victoria Volk 52:53
I will link all of that in the show notes as well. Is there anything else you’d like to add?
Darren Evans 52:59
No, you know, just that you’ve been great. can’t thank you enough for your time. It’s been a pleasure.
Victoria Volk 53:04
Yeah, I think the conversation will definitely continue.
Darren Evans 53:07
Yeah, I really genuinely hope it does. But you have for me to you I wish you well with your endeavors as well. You know, notwithstanding the doula.
Victoria Volk 53:17
Thank you so much. I very much look forward to it. I’m not sure how it’s gonna play out in my area but yeah, thank you so much.
Darren Evans 53:28
you’ll be great, it’s a pleasure. And let’s let’s keep in touch.
Victoria Volk 53:32
Definitely. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Growth, Mind/Body Wellness, Pespective, Resources, Spirituality |
Chasing Freedom
The basis of your life is absolute freedom; most humans don’t know that. Because you look around and you see things you don’t want, and you feel that if you really had the freedom, you would choose differently. But, you are so free that you can choose bondage. You are so free that you can choose vibrations that are not up to speed with who you are and what you deserve. – Abraham Hicks
Does this statement above resonate with you as much as it does with me?
I think of an extreme example of chasing freedom in the stories of concentration camp survivors like Viktor Frankl and Edith Eger. Their experiences are vastly similar and different at the same time. Viktor was an adult during his experience, while Edith was a 16-year-old child who found herself responsible for protecting her younger sister the best way she could after both of their parents were executed.
The common thread of their stories is that freedom, although felt out of touch, they had to find it in their minds if they would ever survive. And even once free, it was as if they were unable to believe it was true, as Edith described in this podcast interview with Brene Brown.
The word freedom feels good. Freedom is one of my values. I don’t like to feel restricted, boxed in, or limited. Because it’s something, I strongly value, I believe that it’s greatly influenced many decisions throughout my life.
The difficult thing about freedom is that we make decisions based on fear when we don’t feel free. Along the way, we mentally and emotionally imprison ourselves with limitations and self-sabotage. As the quote from Abraham says, by choosing to focus on the things you don’t want and feeling as though you don’t have a choice (which is a common feeling while deep in grief), you are choosing bondage.
Because we are always free to the extent we allow ourselves to be, we are more than capable of choosing what we do deserve. We are more than capable of choosing a different reality for ourselves. This is the tug-of-war feeling we can easily feel, and that keeps us stuck. That same tug-of-war feeling also causes us grief too.
Let’s say you are struggling with an addiction to alcohol. More than anything, you want to kick the addiction and take control of your life rather than feeling as though the alcohol has its hold on you. You see the impact your addiction is having on not only your life (and potential) but the lives of those you love and care about. Instead of seeing how capable and powerful you are, you choose the bondage that the alcohol keeps you in instead. You freely choose that alcohol is what you deserve; being who you are without it isn’t enough.
In my early 20’s, I relied on alcohol to make me feel “free.” However, I was accomplishing the complete opposite; I was keeping myself tied to some false idea of how others wanted me to be. I was choosing the bondage of alcohol – and I had the freedom of choice in that. I am, by no means, saying that people can quit whatever their addiction is cold-turkey on their own, as I did. My mom was able to kick her smoking habit cold-turkey, too, after being a smoker for over forty years. For forty years, my mom gambled with her health. She had the freedom to choose to get support to quit any time before she chose to do it independently. I believe we all have that power within us.
We have freedom in the United States that many other cultures of people dream about. And yet, in the U.S., we are one of the most unhealthy (physically and/or emotionally) and medicated of all. So, how free are we really?
When we chase freedom, we need to be careful not to be chasing an external means to give us the freedom that is otherwise accessible and is readily available – in our minds. It starts with our thoughts which influence our feelings.
How free do you feel today?
We will always have something that will challenge our ability to shift the focus of our minds. It takes conscious effort to keep our eyes on the prize of mental and emotional freedom, especially with so much chaos and disruption around us, whether in our personal lives or the world.
I’ve personally been putting a lot of effort into a morning regimen that has had such a positive influence on how I start my day and handle the day’s stresses. I have made morning self-care non-negotiable. This action alone creates momentum for the rest of the day. I then make it a goal to keep that feeling of freedom going as long as possible. And, when I notice I’m allowing those thoughts of bondage to creep in, I do something to shift my energy from a list I created (and included in my latest newsletter).
Have you found something that helps you get out of a funk when you’re feeling less free in your mind?
What is it worth it, to you, to feel freedom?
What are you willing to let go of to experience freedom?
No matter what you’ve experienced or been through, I want you to feel hopeful that freedom is possible. Like Viktor and Edith have proven, in the outcomes of their lives and their work, freedom is in the mind. Let them be the guides for the rest of us in demonstrating that, regardless of what we experience, it’s possible to live an expansive life.
Grief, Grief Tips, Growth, Pespective, Resources
Destined for Misery?
I initially had this post titled: “Is Healing Possible?” But, that felt too predictable given my occupation as a Grief Recovery Method Specialist®. So, I wanted the title to feel more poignant of what we often feel in our grief – miserable. I thought I was destined to feel miserable for the rest of my life. I lacked direction, abused alcohol, lacked emotional control and tact, felt like I was on a rollercoaster ride I couldn’t get off of, and it took every ounce of my energy to focus and concentrate. I was also a “rage-y” mom, unfortunately for my kids.
Do you feel as though you are destined for misery? This post is for you. 💛
I recently read a LinkedIn post that prompted me to share my two cents, which has also inspired this week’s blog post.
This is the beautiful thing about perspective; we all have a point-of-view we bring to the table, and it’s formed through experience. And because all of us uniquely experience life, every perspective contributes to every conversation, even conversations about grief.
The post’s author talked about how, as someone who counsels the bereaved, she has stopped using words and phrases like heal, recover, move on, move forward, or thrive.
I did agree with a lot of what she wrote. However, a bigger part of me feels like it’s important for all grievers to feel like there’s hope. If you don’t have hope, what do you have to hold onto that gets you up and moving the next day?
The opposite of hope is hopelessness and, that’s a slippery slope that I personally know, too. When dark thoughts start to enter the mind, it becomes harder to crawl out of that dark hole.
Additionally, I believe by not using the language of possibility, then what language is left?
Is it important to sit in our feelings to process and work through them? Absolutely! Do I personally want to stay there? Absolutely not. Do I want the clients I work with to stay in that dark place either? No. Taking action moves people forward.
Moving forward is an action.
Thriving is an action.
Recovering is an action.
Healing is an action.
And, my friends, there is hope when you’re taking action.
So, you will always see me use these words because they’re important in the language of grief that grievers see that there’s a path forward. There is a way out of the misery, pain, and emotional and physical dis-ease grief causes.
How Do You Want To Feel?
Is grief normal and natural? Yes. Everything about it is normal and natural.
Do you want the experiences that grief often brings to be your “new normal,” or do you want to feel empowered and stand emotionally confident in your grief experience?
The shortest line in the Bible is two words: Jesus wept. It’s normal and natural to weep. But, do you want to be a sea of tears on the floor because you’re holding on to the pain of what you cannot change?
There is no timeline to grief. It’s one of the myths of grief, actually. So yes, be a pile of tears on the floor; however, ask yourself if that’s where you want to stay for the rest of your life, and you’d say “No!” When the time is right for you to pick yourself up off the floor, you will. But, the pain will remain unless you do the deep work to address it.
The quickest way to get out of our own heads is to serve others. That’s an action, too. Healing is a by-product of being of service to others. Moving forward and thriving are, too.
These are a few ways that come to mind to frame these words to mean something more than what a griever should aspire to do.
I write it that way: ...what a griever should aspire to do...because the only real “supposed to” in grief is to take care of oneself, whatever that looks like for the individual.
Ask any grieve how they want to feel, and not a single one will go on and on about…
How much joy their emotional pain brings them.
How they can’t get enough of their pain and can’t wait to see how non-amazing they feel the next day, even though they may care less if they wake up to greet the sun.
We Are All Grievers
People don’t find pleasure in grief. And, if you deny that you’re a griever, think again! I don’t know a single human who doesn’t grieve something – who doesn’t have particular emotional responses to something someone did, said, or something that happened yesterday, 5 years ago, 30 years ago, or a situation that’s been negatively impacting them.
If you’ve moved, changed careers, never had a dream come true, missed an opportunity, didn’t take a chance, experienced divorce, death of a loved one, a decline in health, have chronic pain, pet loss, Covid, child loss, miscarriage – oh my gosh, do I need to go on?
WE ALL GRIEVE SOMETHING OR SOMEONE. YOU ARE A GRIEVER.
And, there’s no such thing as a half-griever; we all grieve at 100%.
Now that I’ve driven that point home and clarified who is a griever, do you see how language matters?
If I told you that you would forever feel the pain you do today about your deceased loved one as you did yesterday and the year before, I would be the last person you’d want to work with, right?
But what if I spoke to what’s possible for your life, potential, and your emotional state and mindset regardless of what happened to you? You would probably be skeptical, but it sure gives you more hope doesn’t it?
When you don’t know something exists that can transform the lives of grievers in seven or eight weeks, you don’t know that it’s honestly possible. If you don’t know about an evidence-based program that walks a griever, regardless of their loss, through a structured and supported process that guides them through their own healing experience, you don’t know it’s possible to heal, recover, move on, move forward, and thrive. And, that is exactly what I felt well up in me and needed to be shared as I read that LinkedIn post.
As you read this today, I guarantee you that your unprocessed emotions are hindering you somehow. If you would be completely honest with yourself for just a moment, ask yourself this: What am I trying to forget? The answer to that question holds a clue to what is emotionally stagnant in your heart. And, I promise you, you are bringing that emotional energy to everything you do and every interaction you have. And the more experiences you’re trying to forget, the greater the impact it’s having on you because grief is cumulative and it’s cumulatively negative. If that question doesn’t resonate, try this one on: What am I struggling with?
So, my friend…There is hope if you are ready to heal, recover, move on, move forward, and thrive. Entertain the possibility that it’s possible. Read the stories of thousands upon thousands who have gone through The Grief Recovery Method, the only evidence-based program of its kind. It is also the only grief support program to receive such a distinction. It wouldn’t have made it over 40 years if it didn’t work.
The Grief Recovery Method changed my life. And, without a doubt in my mind, I know it can change yours by allowing you to live in the present moment, start a new relationship with someone you’re grieving or who was less than loving, or heal a traumatic experience. I have applied this method to many areas of my life. It has helped me address my relationship with money, alcohol, inner-child, and countless relationships in my life with those living and deceased. It had helped me heal trauma from sexual abuse as a child, the death of my father when I was a child, and do the inner-work to have positive relationships with otherwise challenging people in my life.
Never let anyone tell you something is impossible, including healing, recovery, moving on, moving forward, or thriving. 💛
Are you ready to go from surviving your grief to thriving alongside your grief? The difference is, the sadness is love with nowhere to go. Emotional pain is poison you take, all the while, wishing something would change. And, my friend, you do have the power to change your life experience. All it takes is an open and willing heart.
If your heart is open and willing, I am here for you and invite you to contact me. 💛
Educational, Grief, Grief Tips, Mind/Body Wellness, Pespective |
Relationship Grief
I bet you clicked on the link to read this blog post because you’re in a relationship with someone that’s causing you grief.
And, there’s a 50/50 chance that the person you’re thinking of, in terms of relationship grief, is still alive, too.
Relationship grief extends much farther than the normal and natural feelings you feel when someone dies.
We typically think of relationships as a partnership or being in communion and connection with another human. However, I want to take this opportunity to share with you all of the ways we are in relationships and examples of how we experience relationship grief. My goal is for you to walk away from reading this blog post with an expanded understanding that you can then apply to your life with a new perspective.
Types of Relationships
- Other Humans: Spouse/Significant Other, Parent, Child, Sister/Brother, Grandparent, Aunt/Uncle, Godparent, Cousin, Niece/Nephew, Friend, Neighbor, Co-Worker/Supervisor/Boss, Clients/Customers, and all of the service-based industries that make up our daily lives – Hairdresser, Postmaster, Bank Teller, Cashier, Massage Therapist, Healthcare Provider, Teacher/Instructor/Coach, Podcast Host/Audience, Authors of Favorite Books, Taxi/Uber/Lyft Driver, Food Delivery, Police/Fire/Rescue, Veterinarian
- Animals: Pets, Service Animal, Pets of family/friends/neighbors, Strays, Animals that make your Livelihood or are providers (livestock/chickens (eggs/food) /horses (rodeo/competition/service animal), Eco-System
- Nature: Garden, Yard, Farm, Eco-System, Forest, Lake/Ocean/Sea, Air
- Self: Mind/Emotions, Body/Physical Self, Spirit/Your Essence, Soul/Heart, Money, Faith/Spirituality
Read the relationship types a couple of times. It’s easy to understand why life feels as complex as it does. We co-exist, interact, and are participants of all kinds of relationships daily.
Do you see how many or all of these connections have the potential to cause us grief?
If our relationship in one area lacks in another, we may gravitate to other types of relationships in co-dependent, unhealthy ways. For instance, if there are conflicts with a child or parent, one may self-sabotage the relationship to self by turning to food/alcohol for comfort. Another example may be if you lose a home due to a natural disaster. The impact of that will change where you live, the community and neighbors you are forced to acclimate to, and the situation could add strain to a partnership with another if job loss is involved or just by the stress of having to start over. Just because you have to move doesn’t mean your relationship with where you were before the natural disaster goes away; those feelings still exist. Likewise, when someone dies, the relationship continues. The feelings of anything you wish would have been different, better, or more don’t go away on their own. The loss of hopes, dreams and expectations you had for the relationship continues in your heart; therefore, the relationship also continues.
Grief recovery, a program to address the loss of any kind, helps address those feelings that you can’t seem to shake that keep you stuck.
Grief impacts every area of our lives. Because we are so connected to our environments and each other, and we take ourselves everywhere we go, it behooves us to create balance in our lives to feel contentment and inner peace. Otherwise, we go about our lives not feeling very empowered. Instead, we feel at the mercy of our circumstances, immersed in chaos, and often what follows is our physical bodies begin to break down.
As you see, relationship grief is multi-faceted and hardly straightforward. And the very nature of grief is not linear either. Rather, it feels like a rollercoaster ride where your emotions are all over the place. Only, in grief, you’re without the safety and security of believing that the ride will end smoothly. As I mentioned previously, what adds to the complexity of grief and relationships is that we all bring our “stuff” into our relationships.
Wouldn’t it feel better to be proactive rather than reactive in our lives? Wouldn’t it feel better to be in tune with your heart and have your actions align with your feelings that lean to the goodness life has to offer? Because grief makes us feel like we don’t have a choice, and we all bring our “stuff,” you can see, too, how all of these other relationships potentially add more grief to our lives.
Let me explain it this way…
If you are in the depths of grief right now and feel as though you are a victim of your circumstances and want to feel better but don’t know how to do that or lack the support, you will turn to something (or someone) that will make you feel better. But, those feeling better feelings are short-lived. All the while, in the depths of your grief, you’re having all of these other interactions and encounters with the other kinds of relationships. That is unless you’ve drawn the curtains and are lying in the fetal position for days or weeks on end. Keep in mind, you’re always in a relationship with yourself, though. You take you everywhere – even when it’s just you in the fetal position.
In all of these types of relationships, the one that matters most is our relationship with ourselves. And, it’s the only relationship we have authority over, too.
There are one hundred and forty days left in 2021. How do you want to refine the relationship you have with yourself before 2022?
Are there other relationships that could use some emotional de-cluttering? If so, reach out to me at victoria@theunleashedheart [dot] com if you’re interested in participating in the Grief Recovery Online Group Program. It’s limited to 6 participants this go-around. We meet once weekly for eight weeks in the evenings (typically Wednesdays or Thursdays) for about two hours, starting in September.
Sending you all the love. Thank you for reading.💛
Educational, Grief, Grief Tips, Growth, Living Unleashed, Pespective, Resources |
Healing & Moving On Isn’t Forgetting
In a recent podcast interview, the guest, a fellow Grief Recovery Specialist and Parent Educator, used the phrase “living forward” instead of “moving on.” I like that; I think it speaks to the positive more than simply saying “moving on.”
The thing about moving on or living forward is neither is about forgetting, condoning, or minimizing.
Things to Keep in Mind for the Griever You Know
After the loss of a loved one, well-meaning people say things with the hope of encouraging or motivate action for the griever not to dwell. However, what this may cause the griever to do, instead, is to brush aside their grief, minimize what they’re feeling, and do their best to put on a brave face. None of these actions are likely authentic to how they’re feeling and, in turn, only cause more harm and delay healing.
What would be more positive and helpful is if the griever were allowed the time and space to feel how they feel, at the moment they feel it. Anything less is a disservice to themselves, and frankly, anyone else they’re in close relationships with – especially children if the griever is a parent.
What would also be helpful is reiterating to the griever exactly what this post is about; moving on and living forward and working towards healing doesn’t mean the sadness will end. There will always be an empty seat at the table or the relationship that never was quite what they hoped it would be. And, that’s okay. But, as a supporter of a griever, or as a griever reading this, it’s allowing that to be okay, too.
Things to Keep in Mind as a Griever
If you’re reading this through the lens of a griever, I would like to dig more deeply into this idea that moving on (or living forward) means that you’re somehow abandoning that relationship in your heart or betraying the dearly departed in some way. That couldn’t be further from the truth. What would be more hurtful to your loved one is watching you continue to suffer in your sadness.
There are many reasons why grievers suffer in silence. Many reasons are pretty general and similar across the board, including this idea that you have to be strong. No one wants to be looked at like they’re a trainwreck. Rather, it’s far better to look at the role of someone who has their grief game put together, right? You’re not fooling someone like me who is empathic and not only trained in grief but grew up with it being a part of me. I can smell suffering a mile away. Truth be told, I don’t smell it, I feel it, but you get the idea. Your body speaks to me before you even say a word. Sometimes, I can sense what people are struggling with, too. Anyway, I talked about the Myths of Grief on my podcast, which can also be found on my blog. These myths are pretty universal. If you read that article or listen to that podcast episode, you may see yourself in the descriptions of how you’ve responded to life while grieving.
Living Forward
What I would share with you today is that living forward, in other words taking action, is the best thing you can do for yourself today, tomorrow, and for the you that will be reflected in the mirror ten years from now.
Who do you want to be looking back at you?
Do you want to see the grief-stricken, wrung-out from life, beaten down you that you may be feeling like today?
Or, do you want to see yourself as a Phoneix that had risen from the ashes, emotionally stronger than ever before, resilient in your heart, and overcome with gratitude that you found exactly what you needed when you needed it and turned your life around?
How could you possibly forget your loved one?
How could you condone the behavior of someone who hurt you?
You can’t, and you won’t. However, you can take steps forward that enable you to remember your loved one with joy. There may be sadness, too, but it won’t be debilitating or derailing sadness.
And, you can live forward, rewriting your future script that doesn’t include the trauma or the pain of what was done against you that hurt you. Or, the relationship won’t continue to have the same effect on you, acting as the driver in your life, dictating and influencing every future decision you make. Even if we end a relationship with someone living, don’t be fooled to believe that the relationship ends. If you have anything left emotionally incomplete, that relationship is continuing whether you like to admit it or not. And, even if you do work through it, there will always be things that come up within less than loving relationships or estranged relationships that require attention. It’s how you will choose to address those things that will either impede your growth or aid you in your evolution.
My hope is that after reading this blog post, you recognize that honoring your future by taking action today is how you honor your loved one, too. For those less than loving or estranged relationships, it’s how you honor your present and future.
What small action can you take today that will help you live forward?
To taking action! 💛
