Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Mental Health, Podcast, Sibling Loss, Veteran |
Scott Deluzio | Seeing Red: A Gold Star Brother & Brothers in Arms
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Less than 1% of Americans serve in the U.S. military. That leaves 99% of Americans who will never understand the cost of serving their country, particularly during wartime.
Scott shares his path to emotional freedom from the scars of war after deploying to Afghanistan with his brother, Steven. Rather than Scott celebrating homecoming with his brother, he accompanied Steven, killed in action, in a casket draped with the American flag.
Although Scott was scheduled to return to Afghanistan two short weeks after his brother’s funeral, the mayor of Connecticut declared that he would not return to duty with his National Guard unit in Afghanistan because the family should have to endure the potential of another loss.
But there is so much more to Scott’s story. Because coming home after being in a war, doesn’t necessarily feel like you’re home. Scott put his grief to the side and picked up anger, and over the years, his grief ate away the core of his very being. He became someone he didn’t recognize. His drinking got out of control, along with his anger, and he realized he could no longer go it alone and sought support.
Like many grievers and veterans, Scott thought he was doing okay after a couple of years of therapy and stopped going. However, a life-threatening event with his spouse would occur, and he would later find his old patterns resurfacing. He sought support again and learned that growth and healing are ongoing processes.
Whether you’ve served in the military, know or love someone who is serving or has served, or not, please listen to Scott’s story. It may help bring a deeper understanding of the scars and costs of war – and America’s 1%.
RESOURCES:
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The real divide in the U.S. is that only one percent of us fight in war, and the rest don’t understand the true cost of conflict. – an op-ed piece by “60 Minutes” producer Henry Schuster, Operation Proper Exit
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CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk 0:00
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Scott deluzy. Oh, he is an Army veteran having served six years with the Army National Guard, including a deployment to Afghanistan in 2010. Scott’s brother Steven was also deployed to Afghanistan also in 2010. Unfortunately, Steven was killed in action on August 22 2010. After returning home, Scott struggled with coping with the stresses of combat the loss of his younger brother and adjusting back to civilian life. Thank you so much for being here, Scott.
Scott Deluzio 0:34
Thanks for having me. I’m really glad to be able to come on and share my story with you and your audience.
Victoria Volk 0:39
And it is a story that hasn’t been expressed on the podcast. I know I was on your podcast Dr. On a little while, a while back and not sure when that episode will go live for sure. I don’t remember anymore. But at the time of this recording, it doesn’t matter. But we have that in common where we both deployed, I was deployed in Iraq, but I have not had this type of loss represented on the podcast. So thank you for being open to sharing your story. We have a lot of acronyms, right in the military. It’s all acronyms. And one acronym that we also have in Grief Recovery is our stirpes. And it means short-term energy relieving behaviors. And you mentioned a STERB in your information that you shared with me and yours. It sounds like was alcohol, is that correct?
Scott Deluzio 1:32
Yeah, that’s, that’s correct. When I got back from Afghanistan, I was home with with my family and I couldn’t sleep to for anything I sleep was just eluding me, it was night after night, where I would just be laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, not able to fall asleep. And the pain of losing my brother was significant. And I found myself drinking more and more and more, you know, it started off just normal, like casual drinking, having a glass of wine with dinner or something like that. But then it became more and more after, you know, after dinner going going in later into the night. And I found that I was helping myself to fall asleep by basically drinking until I passed out. So it wasn’t really sleep, it was really just making myself pass out. Which obviously has the issue of you know, the next morning, I was hungover, I wasn’t the the friendliest, nicest person to be around. And, you know, I would, I would kind of get through the day just by drinking more and more coffee throughout the day just to keep myself going, you know, energy drinks, things like that. But then that that’s sort of affecting my sleep too, as I was drinking it later. And later in the day, it just became this vicious cycle. And, you know, I would use, like sleeping pills trying to help myself get to sleep and, you know, combining that with the alcohol that doesn’t isn’t exactly the healthiest option, either. And, you know, it was just, it was just one of those things where I was looking for that, that relief that basically numbing the pain getting getting rid of that, not not addressing it not facing it head on and dealing with it in a healthy way. And and that was that was causing a lot of problems caused problems with my physical health, my mental health, my relationships, my my job, I was going into work basically hung over, you know, on a regular basis, and it wasn’t exactly what you want to do. And when you’re, you’re working in a professional kind of corporate job, it’s not what you really want to do, you’re kind of looked at a little bit differently when you’re, you’re walking in still still kind of shaking off the cobwebs and everything. So, you know, it was it was just really hard for me to be able to deal with the stuff that I was going through. And it was it was hard. It was hard for me to get through all of that.
Victoria Volk 4:09
How old were your kids at the time.
Scott Deluzio 4:12
So I had a before I deployed my my first son was born. So he was nine or 10 months old at the time so young enough that he doesn’t remember this part of of life. I now have two other kids who fortunately, were not around during that time period either. And so, you know, they don’t they don’t remember that obviously either. So, you know, but I also wasn’t the best at either, you know, I would have and this was like when he when I got home he was about nine or 10 months but this obviously went on for a little while afterwards too. So you know he was a toddler he’s getting into trouble like all little kids do right and I would just have a short temper with Just about everything. And when he would do things that normal kids do, they spill their food off the their highchair, or they, you know, make a mess in the living room or whatever it is, you know that he was doing it, I just would would flip out and I’d started screaming and yelling, and, and it was that was just not who I was. That’s not the type of person who I was before I deployed. I was a pretty easygoing type of person I didn’t get I wasn’t too high strung, I didn’t get upset over little things like that. You know, sure. There’s, there’s inconveniences, but you just deal with them as you go along in life, right. And, but I was finding it harder and harder to deal with even these small, little inconveniences. And so I found myself just getting angry and frustrated, upset at all these little tiny things. And it was just about everything that I was getting mad at. And anything that that was even slightly inconvenient or off or whatever, I just would, I’d be flipping out about it. And, and I realized that’s not the kind of dad I wanted to be. That’s not the type of person I wanted it to be. For my son, for my wife, for the people who are around me that I cared about who cared about me, I didn’t want to be that kind of person, because then then you just end up pushing those people away. And so, so yeah, it was kind of a long answer to that question. You know, how old they were. But, but yeah, that was that was kind of that situation that I was going through?
Victoria Volk 6:34
When did that change for you? And did you notice that? How you are reacting to situations, then your children? Sort of that’s how they responded to to situations? Like did you how were their behavior, things with the kids then being reflected back to you?
Scott Deluzio 6:52
Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. I started noticing my my oldest son, I would, I used to do this thing, when I would get frustrated or angry, where I would grit my teeth. And I started noticing him doing that anytime he would be getting upset at at small little things, you know, things that weren’t going his way, you know, it’s it’s time for a nap. And he didn’t want to go take a nap. And he grit his teeth and he’d get angry. And it was like looking in the mirror. It was a it was an ugly mirror, I didn’t want to look in that mirror, you know, I wanted to I wanted to have a happy, healthy child not not one who was getting angry at these little things the way I was doing. And really, for me, the moment where the light bulb went off and I realized Something is definitely wrong is this time when my my dog that we had at the time, she’s since passed away. But back then she she had gotten sick. I don’t know if she ate something that didn’t agree with her or whatever. And she was walking in our bedroom. And she was right at the edge of our bedroom and in the master bathroom that we had which had nice tile floor and the bedroom which had a nice brand new white carpet. And she started to throw up and she’s standing right at the edge between the bathroom and in the doorway and to the to the bathroom. And she throws up right on the white carpet. And ice flipped out. I started screaming and yelling and everything as if the dog can understand the anyways Right? Like she she didn’t know what I was saying. She knew I was mad. Probably just by the tone of my voice and you know how loud I was and everything like that. But I mean, she’s sick. She’s not feeling well, what good was all of that yelling and screaming going to do anyways? You know, I was I was just mad that she didn’t take two seconds to go walk into the bathroom where it had been so much easier to clean up on a tile floor versus, but the white carpet right now I know I probably have to go rent a steam cleaner and you know, get get that out and everything. But again, in the grand scheme of things, it’s a pretty minor inconvenience, to do things. And like that’s not the kind of person that I am. I love dogs. I am not the type of person who’s going to be you know, getting upset at at a dog for doing something that you know, is natural. She’s feeling sick. So she that’s just what dogs people that’s what anyone is going to do. You know, quite frankly, I I feel like I like like more dogs than than certain people. It’s at times too, right? So I was like, Who is this person? Who am I wouldn’t have I become and my wife and I at that time, we kind of sat down and she said you know I thought you might be able to handle some of the stuff on your own. You know the stuff that you’re going through, but it seems like you’re having some tough time with it. It might be time to reach out and get some help and so So I did. And I kind of realized that at that moment, too, I was like, this isn’t this isn’t me, this isn’t who I want to be, and I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong and what, what I need to do to change. And so I reached out to the Vet Center, which is kind of affiliated through the VA. I’m not sure exactly how but but no, they are. And they, they offer counseling services. And they, they helped me to get my my anger under control, so that I wasn’t having these outbursts all the time, wasn’t perfect. It’s a slow process. It’s not like you go in, you sit down on a on a couch for one session, and then boom, magically, everything’s rainbows and unicorns, right? It, it’s a process and it takes time. But you have to, I what I realized is that you have to let the process work, you can’t just go in expecting that that Amazon overnight delivery, where you get the results instantaneously, it’s something that you have to work at, and you have to be conscious about what you’re doing and, and how your things are affecting you in your life. And, and that’s what kind of helped me to get away from being so frustrated and angry all the time.
Victoria Volk 11:12
There is a quote, and I’m going to add live because I don’t know exactly how it goes. But something to the effect of I sat with my anger long enough until he told me its name and its name was grief. And I really relate to your story in that in the anger because I would call myself a read I would have called myself a raging mom, you would call yourself a Rayji dad at that point by just so much anger, which really is grief and sadness and all these feelings unexpressed and undealt no not dealt with. But I didn’t connect the dots to a situation I experienced and tell your story when my son was three years old, and I had three children in four years. So I had a three year old I had an 18 month old and I had a boy she’s six months old. Something I mean boom boom boom like I was like a walking zombie angry raging mom right but my son just would not listen He wanted to take his bike out and I couldn’t watch him get my kids in you know I pulled into the garage and I need to get the car seat and the 18 month old or you know I wrote she was I think 18 months at the time. They’re 18 months apart actually the older two are 18 months apart and then the girls are two years but anyway a baby in a car seat then the younger one or the middle one had to get them in the house and he was like just going on and on about needing his bike and wanting to ride his bike and I said I can’t be outside with you right now and I can’t let him just ride around outside all by himself so right i lat I did what I thought I could do in that moment and I locked his bike in the van. Take the girls into the house next thing I know my middle one is coming in Mommy Mommy is Xavier is to is hitting the van with a bat what? And I step out in the garage and no crap he is slugging my van with the bat. So angry that I locked his bike in there that he couldn’t have his bike, broke our window, ended up costing over $2,000 to get that replaced. But I didn’t connect it until your your story of how our anger is just reflected back to us from our kids. If there are behavioral issues with your children, how about you look at your own behavior? Parents listening. Right? And what grief Do you have those on expressed? So thank you for sharing all of that. Because I really feel like that is a very good message for this podcast today.
Scott Deluzio 13:53
Yeah, and there’s there’s another example of this to where it not from my own personal life, but just from some TV shows that I’ve seen where there’s a show that it used to be on I don’t know if it’s still on or not. But it was with this dog trainer is a Cesar Millan the dog whisperer, right. And I remember, he would go into these households where the dog is out of control, and they’re acting all crazy and out of control. And he walked observes how the owners are, are acting in interacting with the dogs, and they’re just as out of control. And so he looks at them and he says, I think I need to train you before I start working on on your dogs because you’re the problem you are the one who is is basically making this dog so crazy. And once when he starts addressing those behavior issues, then the dog starts starts behaving a little bit differently. And maybe there’s still some work that needs to be done with the dog itself but but it’s it’s really reflecting from from the the owners, right? And so, you know, it’s the same idea, I think, Where where are our behaviors and our reactions get reflected to those who are around us.
Victoria Volk 15:14
Back to us, right? It’s like a boomerang, the energy you bring to a room, you’re gonna get it back. Yeah, exactly. So well, let’s rewind the clock before you were raised you Dad to where it all started, because you deployed with your brother.
Scott Deluzio 15:33
So we were, he was in the Vermont Army National Guard, I was in the Connecticut Army National Guard. And both of our units, there was some reorganization that took place before we deployed. And both of our units ended up in the same brigade. And so this deployment was a brigade wide deployment. So we are both deployed, just about the same time, you know, give or take a couple of weeks just with, you know, training and other cycles that we have to go through. Before getting there. I actually got to Afghanistan first, he got there, maybe a week or two later, but we were stationed far enough apart that we never saw each other once when we were there. And as a matter of fact, the only communication really that we had between the two of us was kind of playing that telephone game, when I would call home to our parents, they would they would tell me what was going on with him and vice versa with with him. So when he would call home he’d find out what was going on with me and everything. So. So we really didn’t talk at all, we may have sent an email here and there, but but really not much. And quite frankly, we’re kind of focused on our, our jobs. So we didn’t really have all that much time to take off to go give each other a phone call or you know, find out what’s going on with each other. So, so yeah, so we were we were deployed at the same time, but not together. If that makes sense.
Victoria Volk 16:59
I asked that because I think it’s important that people understand listening to this, that that’s a scenario that played out, often, still does, likely where you have siblings or people who are married, like my husband and I deployed together, not in the same place, but we knew each other was doing right. You knew what he was doing. He knew what you were doing. And yeah, you don’t have that same level of communication as you did calling home. Right? And so it makes it harder, I think, because you know what you’re doing, and you can’t communicate as openly and freely. And so, I mean, was that always in the back of your mind, like this worry, knowing what he was doing too.
Scott Deluzio 17:42
You know, what? It wasn’t really and I think it was like a defensive mechanism that I put up this the shield, telling myself, basically lying to myself saying that he nothing was going to happen to him, nothing bad was going to happen to him that he had previously deployed to Iraq. He was in Ramadi, in 2006, which was a really rough time to be in that area. And I said, if he made it through that, he’s going to be able to make it through this deployment, no problem. You know, I wasn’t even worried about him getting injured, or killed. That wasn’t even a thought on my mind. I didn’t even entertain that thought we were both going to come home. As far as I was concerned, we’re both going to go back to our lives, I was going to come back to my wife and my son and us, he was engaged to be married about a year after we were scheduled to come back home. So he was going to come home, he was going to get married, he was going to start his family start his life and everything with with his his fiance. And I just figured that’s what’s going to happen. And I didn’t give it too much more thought than that. I wasn’t worried that he was gonna get injured or killed or, or anything like that. Because that’s just not what happens. That happens to other people. That doesn’t happen to you that that’s what you read about in the news. That’s not what you experience firsthand in real life, that that’s just stuff that happens to quote unquote, other people, but it’s a it’s real punch of that gut when you become those other people. You know, and it truly was unexpected. As far as I was concerned. I knew what he was doing. I knew it. It was a dangerous job. Just never occurred to me that it would be a job that could ultimately take his life.
Victoria Volk 19:30
So what was that? How did that play out? Like how did you find out?
Scott Deluzio 19:35
You know, both happened to be on missions that day, where we were out in patrolling in these remote villages. His was not that remote. They were able to drive from their base to this village and then dismount and walk into the village. The village I was in we we actually had to fly in on helicopters the night before to this mountaintop, just outside the village and then we we patrol down into the village As soon as the sun came up reason why is because we were working alongside with the Afghan army and they they didn’t have night vision capability. So they weren’t able to walk on that uneven rough terrain in the dark, to go do the mission that we’re planning on doing so. So we had to wait for the first light. So we went through the village, and we’re doing our, our job looking, looking through everything. And at one point, kind of partway through the day, I got a call on the radio, and they said that there was a helicopter coming in, and I needed to take my squad out to go secure a landing zone for it. And so we did, we went over, we found a clearing, kind of at the far end of the village. And we secured that area formed a perimeter around it, there’s some smoke in that area, and the helicopter came down and landed. And when we were just told that there’s some VIPs on the helicopter, we didn’t know who but it was an American general and a couple French soldiers. So we are operating in French controlled territory, they kind of had that that area. But I think they’re just there to kind of check up and see what kind of intelligence we found and what kind of stuff was going on that day. Since I was a highest ranking guy, next to the general, I went to go greet him and show him where everything was in everything, which as a sergeant that was kind of a little nerve wracking, going and interacting with that general. So but he was, he was a nice enough guy. And you know, we were chatting for a little bit. And he gets a call on the radio. And it tells him and I can hear the radio, just by the nature of the microphone that he had. It says that there were two American casualties. Now anyone who’s been in the military knows that we don’t use names on on the radio call signs that at best, but we’ll never we never use names going over the radio. So there are no names spoken. So at that point, I was just like that, you know that that sucks. That’s, that’s terrible. I feel bad for those people for their families. You know, I feel bad for him. But there’s nothing I can really do about that situation right now. So so we continued on, I passed off the general to my my platoon sergeant and, and then I continued on with our mission. It A little while later, I don’t remember exactly how long later it was. But I got a call on the radio from my commanding officer. And again, for anyone who’s familiar with the chain of command in the military, for a sergeant to get a call directly from the commanding officer, either you did something really good or really bad. And, you know, they usually work their way through the chain of command. And I couldn’t think of anything particularly good I did that day. You know, I did my job, but it was nothing spectacular. And I wasn’t getting any medals for what I had done that day. And so my first thought was okay, what, what did I do wrong? What would I screw up, my guys lose some equipment, whatever, you know, and I’m flipping out trying to figure it out. And I couldn’t figure it out. So eventually, I linked up with a commanding officer. And he told me to come over to the side kind of away from everybody else to take my helmet off and and take a knee. And that was another red flag because they never tell you to take your helmet off when you’re outside the wire. Like that’s, that’s like a big no, no, You never do that. And so I was like, Okay, what, what’s going on here, something screwed up. And so when he told me it was that my my brother’s unit was involved in an ambush and that my brother had gotten hit. And so now it’s like the first time it’s It’s dawning on me that he’s not invincible, that something could happen to him. And so, of course, I’m just thinking, he got hit, and you know, maybe he’s wounded. And he’s he’s injured. So I start going into big brother mode thinking, How do I handle the logistics to get to him? How do I how do I get to him to be there for support? Or if he needs blood or an orchid? Or something like that? How do I get to him? And I guess what I didn’t understand was that, that he was killed in action. And so when, when the commanding officer finally told me that he was killed in action, I look anyone else I broke down, I was crying I was I was a mess. Except for I was a mess with with a rifle, you know, fully loaded rifle, all the ammunition that I could possibly need. So it was a little more of a volatile situation than then maybe if I was to find out when I was still at home, you know, and so I didn’t realize that at the time. But they they constantly had people with me, basically to make sure I didn’t do something stupid to either myself or to somebody else. And so there was there’s always at least a couple soldiers around me to just make sure that I was okay. Within about 20 minutes or so of finding out that my brother was killed. Our own unit started taking fire from the village that we had just come out of. And so, at that point,
Scott Deluzio 24:55
I realized I had to I had to do something I couldn’t just sit there feeling sorry for myself. But that grief that I had that I was experiencing in that moment, turned to straight anger. I was so angry at the people of Afghanistan for not being able to handle this, this fight on the road to require people like my brother and the 1000s of others who, who came there and gave their lives for these people. Why couldn’t they fight their own fight? Why did we have to be there? Why do we have to lose good people like my brother, I was so angry, in fact that I had actually this this fleeting thought of me just running back down into this village, and just killing everybody that I saw. And because I was just so angry at, at these people, not even just the the enemy who were fighting it with us, I had this vision of I just want to kill everybody. I was that angry. But I realized, if I was to do something like that, first off, I
Scott Deluzio 26:03
I wouldn’t make it. You know, just one man running down into a firefight like that. This isn’t a Rambo movie, I’m not going to, I’m not going to survive that. So I started thinking about my wife, you know, I don’t want her to become a widow. I don’t want my son to grow up without a father. And God forbid, my parents ended up getting a second knock on the door that day, telling them that that now both of their kids have been killed. I couldn’t do that to them. So I realized that I needed to suck it up, put this anger aside, put this grief aside, and I needed to focus on on my job. I had about 10 soldiers or so that I was responsible for that day. And if something happened to me, or if I wasn’t doing my job, I’d have my head on straight. something bad could happen to them. And then how do I explain that to their families? How do I tell them that, hey, your loved one is no longer here? Because I couldn’t keep my stuff together. I couldn’t, I couldn’t keep my head on straight throughout this whole ordeal. You know, how do I how do I say that to them. And so I realized I now had another group of people that I needed to get myself straightened out for. And so I did, I was still angry. But I went and made sure that my my men were positioned where they needed to be. And I said men, because we are infantry. And at the time, there were no females in the infantry. So they were all men. And I made sure that they were positioned where they needed to be, I made sure that they fire on their targets was going in the right direction, made sure that they were they were conserving ammunition, made sure that they were doing all the things that they were supposed to be doing. And they did a phenomenal job, I was very proud of how well they were able to operate under under fire during that time period. And, and some of them had already known about what had happened to my brother. So they were just as mad as, as I was maybe not quite as mad as I was, but they were they were pretty mad. At one. One of my my soldiers had a the two or three grenade launcher and he just wanted to launch all of them in just annihilate whatever was standing in his way, because he was just so mad. I had to remind him to conserve some of the ammunition, because we didn’t know what else was coming. And so you know, so that that took place just that was about 20 minutes after finding out that my brother was killed. And it was just horrible for me. After that attack died down, and we came out on top. Fortunately, we didn’t have any any American killed in action in that fight. But we we managed to stop the attack. I was I was told that they were getting a helicopter to come back and take me out of that that area to start me on my journey home. When the helicopter landed. I got on the helicopter and I was sitting directly across from that same general that I talked to earlier in the day. And he recognized me and he said, What Weren’t you the soldier that I was talking to just a little while ago? And I said, Yeah. And I said, Do you remember that call that you got about the the two soldiers who are killed? And I said, well, one of them was my brother. And he and I both just couldn’t believe the coincidence that I happen to be out of all the 1000s of soldiers who were in Afghanistan, I happen to be the one who was standing next to him when when he got that call, you know, thank God they didn’t use names on the radio because I don’t know how this whole situation would have played out differently, but it would not have ended very well. I don’t I don’t think so. That would have been a terrible way to find out but but yeah, that was that was my day. And then that that that started my journey home. So they flew me to Bagram Airbase the next day. I was I was able to be a part of what’s called the ramp ceremony, which is where they bring the bodies of the fallen soldiers onto the plane that that takes them out of Afghanistan. And and there were There were two soldiers. The other soldier Tristan Southworth, he was he was killed in the recovery efforts of trying to recover my brother’s body. And so I was able to be a part of that. And I felt actually felt very fortunate that I was able to be there for that. Most soldiers don’t have anybody who is like a blood relative that is that close to them, who is able to be a part of that. And so I felt fortunate that I was able to be there and, and thank all of the people who came through there were high ranking American soldiers, generals, colonels, things like that. There were foreign soldiers, Polish and German soldiers who came through who were paying their respects to soldier that they didn’t even know. But they felt the need to come and pay their respects. And I was able to be there and thank them, and, you know, really just show my appreciation that they were able to take that time out of their day to come in and do that. So from there I was, I was actually able to get on that same flight with my brother, we flew to Kuwait, where he and I parted ways. I continued on to Germany, Atlanta, and then back, back home from from there. So all in all, it took me about two days, from the time that I found out that my brother was killed to the time that I was standing back home in Connecticut from from the time that I found out that my brother was killed, it took about two days, which is breaking all sorts of records. As far as deployment travel is concerned. Usually you don’t get home that quickly, but but they bumped me to the head of the line for for all these all these flights.
Victoria Volk 31:39
Wow. And so did you end up having to go back on.
Scott Deluzio 31:42
I did not know, I originally was scheduled to go back, they they gave me two weeks to come back home for the funeral and, and things like that. But at the funeral with with any kind of high profile deaths, like a military death or things like that, there were a lot of politicians and, and things like that, who attended the funeral. And one of one which happened to be the state governor. And for anyone who’s not familiar with the National Guard, the National Guard falls under both federal and state jurisdiction. So so the the commander in chief is also the Governor as well as the President of the United States. So at the funeral, the governor of the state of Connecticut told, told my family and I that I was not going to be going back, she was going to issue an order that I would stay back, stay at home because she said no, no family should have to go through that a second time. And, and so from there, I stayed home. I was I was home for the most part. Since the day that I came back. The only time that was that was that I had to leave was to do the out processing. When you when you get back from a deployment, you have to go through various medical and mental health screenings and, and process all the paperwork and all that kind of stuff. Unfortunately, that that took me back to Indiana, and Camp Atterbury. So I had to leave my family for a period of time, they scheduled me for about three days to be there. And I was like, There’s no way I’m gonna stay here for three days. This is just too much for me. So I ran through everything. I lived through my teeth through all the mental health screenings, just just to check the box and get it over with because I wanted more than anything I wanted to be home with my family. And the only thing that was standing in my way was a checkbox on a piece of paper from the these counselors saying that I was I was good to go. I wasn’t good to go. I was nowhere near good to go. But I was like I don’t, I don’t care at this point. I just want to get home.
Victoria Volk 33:44
And I think that’s the case with anyone whenever they come home off a deployment. Let’s just get this over with and check the boxes. And you know, there’s no real transparency and honesty, and not just because you want to get back home. But it’s gotten a lot better. But I think you know, your rank your career, like all those things come into play when you’re looking at those boxes. And was this earlier on in your deployment? Or did it happen later? Like did you feel guilty about that?
Scott Deluzio 34:15
Yeah, it was towards the end of the deployment. So we I had gotten there in like early February, and we were scheduled to be there until October, sometime in that timeframe. And he was killed at the end of August. So so we only had about a month and a half or so left, maybe two months left in this deployment. And so yeah, did I feel guilty I felt guilty about a lot of things. I I started questioning, you know why I joined the so my my brother had joined the Vermont Army National Guard, which I think I mentioned earlier, but he had joined before I did. And I felt guilty that I didn’t join with him in Vermont. I I joined the Connecticut Army National Guard. And had I joined the same unit is, as he did, I may have been able to be there with him, I may have been able to do something to help him to prevent this from happening. And so I kept going through all those what if scenarios in my head, like what if I had joined the Vermont National Guard? What if I had to talk to him out of re enlisting when he did, which would have made him ineligible to deploy because his enlistment was going to be up at some point during that deployment. And so he wouldn’t have deployed. What if I had done any number of other things, you know. And so I felt guilty for all of those those things, that I didn’t try harder that I didn’t try to talk him out of reenlisting that I didn’t try to join the Vermont National Guard that I didn’t do any of these things. And all of that was starting to eat away at me too. It just made me feel like I was just a terrible brother, you’re a big brother, like, that’s your job, like, your job is there to protect your younger siblings. And here I was, and I, I screwed that up. And I couldn’t be there for him when he needed me the most. And so I felt terrible about all of that. And it really it just ate me up inside.
Victoria Volk 36:23
You said you reached out the Vet Center and and things started to turn around? When did you start to feel like you were really reconciling your grief and what what you had been through and experienced with the loss of your brother, and how did that transform your life.
Scott Deluzio 36:39
It took a while. Like I said earlier, it’s not a immediate overnight transition that takes place. At least it wasn’t for me, I don’t know, some other people may have different experiences, maybe they have that light bulb moment earlier on in the process, and things just get started getting better. But for me, I was going to the Vet Center for almost two years. And at the time that I stopped going, the counselor that I was seeing he was being transferred to another location. And my family and I we were we were planning on moving to Arizona where we live now. And it just seemed like a good time to kind of cut off the treatment. I said, you know, I feel like I’m in a better place right now, I feel like I’m not having these angry outbursts all the time. Maybe I’m not perfect, maybe I still have them occasionally. But I’m getting better at this. And I think I can I can handle it from here. And I wasn’t drinking nearly as much as I had been before, you know, and the goal was never to quit drinking altogether. For me anyway. So because I still, you know, enjoy a beer every once in a while, you know, with family or friends or whatever it’s not, but it’s not like, I need this every night kind of thing. And that’s what I was trying to get away from I didn’t need to drink to make myself pass out and go to sleep. I that’s what I wanted to get away from. So. So it got me to the point where I was able to kind of manage my life a little bit easier. And I knew I still had some work to do. But I felt like I had the tools to do it and handle these things on my own. And so we moved out here to Arizona stopped going to treatment for for a while. And a few years after, after being here, I started noticing that I was slipping into some of these old habits and patterns that I was that I had successfully gotten away from for a little while. But but they were creeping back. I was starting to have a short fuse again, where where I just get mad and angry at the littlest things. And it wasn’t until actually late last year, where I really realized why I was getting so angry at the little things when you’re in the military. And you know, this probably just as well. When someone tells you to do something, they give you an order. It’s not one of those things that’s up for debate. Like oh, well, you know, maybe if we do it this way and change it. No, it’s no, this is what needs to happen. And that needs to happen. Now it just do it. Yeah, there’s some times when that might be appropriate. But but in the heat of the moment, you kind of just have to follow those orders and and do what is asked of you. And if it’s not done as as it’s intended to be done, then that’s when lives are at stake when people start getting injured and killed. And I felt like I was carrying that same level of intensity just into my everyday daily life. And like that’s, that’s no way. There’s no way to live life right like constantly acting as If everything is a life and death situation, when my son spills a glass of milk on the floor, that’s not a life and death situation, when my dog throws up on the carpet, that’s not a life and death situation, I don’t need to have that level of intensity with, with those kinds of situations. Yeah, I can be frustrated that something like that happened. But I don’t need to be, you know, turning into Sergeant Scott mode, you know, insert gelling with the knife, hands and everything. And, and, you know, going absolutely crazy about these situations. And, but that’s what I was doing. And I found myself falling back into those old patterns, I was having more and more trouble sleeping. So I found myself drinking more and more, and getting it back into those old habits. And,
Scott Deluzio 40:48
And I realized at that point that our mental health is, it’s not like some things with your physical health, like, if you were to break your arm, you go to the doctor, you get the cast put on, it’s healed, you take the cast off, and it’s good, you don’t really need a follow up unless you break your arm or you reinjure it somehow, right. So you’re kind of just just good after that, right. But your mental health is a little more fluid, it comes in waves, you know, certain things can set you off sights, smells, times of day, or even times of year, can can set you off anniversaries of of things like the loved one staff that have their birthdays, or certain holidays that you enjoyed celebrating together or things like that, those kinds of things can set you off. And so what I realized is that it’s it’s worthwhile to just like with your physical health to go get a checkup, every once in a while, go go in, just have a chat with someone and just make sure that everything’s still ticking the way it’s supposed to be ticking, you know, you go to the doctor for an annual physical, to make sure that your cholesterol is in check to make sure that you’re, you know, you’re maybe do a cancer screening, you know, on an annual basis to make sure that something didn’t pop up in the last year, right. There’s nothing wrong with going and continuing to get mental health treatment on a periodic basis, whether that’s annually or more or less frequently, whatever makes sense for you. But there’s nothing wrong with that. If there’s, there’s something that could be popping up for you. Go talk to somebody. And lately, I’ve been in several different treatment options for PTSD. And currently, I’m doing prolonged exposure therapy, where you basically are talking about these, these trauma memories that replay in your head over and over again, and you talk about it. And the idea is sort of like if you were to watch a scary movie, the first time you watch it, it’s pretty scary. But if you were to sit down and force yourself to watch that movie 2530 times by that point, you kind of know when the guy is going to jump out of the closet, and you know what, what’s coming, and it’s not so scary anymore. And so that’s kind of the idea with with this as well is that you kind of relive some of those, those memories over and over again, to the point where they’re, they’re not as traumatic to you, there’s still, it’s not taking away the impact that they may have had on your life, but it’s reducing your response to it, you’re not jumping out of out of the seat in that scary moment in the movie anymore. You’re not waking up in the middle of the night, you know, having nightmares about these things anymore. And that’s, that’s kind of the goal. And so, so that that’s what I’ve been doing. And this is this is 12 years after, after the fact. And it’s okay, it can be one of those things that that goes on for for years. But you just manage the situation differently. And I it’s been 12 years for me, but I did have a significant time period in between where I took took a break. So it wasn’t like I was continuously working on this for 12 years, you know, so not to discourage anyone who who might be looking for that type of thing. It’s not like, this is a normal results. Where Yeah, this is gonna take me decades to get through. It may it may not I don’t know. But you know, for me, it’s one of those things where I just realized it’s okay to ask for help, even all these years later, and the help that I’m getting is, is helping in various areas. And so, you know, it’s just being open to getting that treatment.
Victoria Volk 44:38
I commend you for reaching out a second time. You know, we often think that you had that gap and you think you go through life and you think I’m good, I’m fine. I’m fine. I got this right. Did you have another loss that kind of catapulted you back in time to that heart Break, because you mentioned, you know, this is the perfect part to say this too, because you said, when you have a broken bone, you go to the doctor and we say in Grief Recovery, you have a broken bone, you go to the doctor, why do we not go to the doctor when we have a broken heart? Right? It’s it’s more than just our mental health, it’s a broken heart. Did you have a broken heart again, during that, that you found yourself realizing, Oh, I’m falling back into these patterns?
Scott Deluzio 45:31
You know, I, I didn’t have a loss to the same extent that, that losing my brother was I didn’t have a loved one passed away, like that. But what I did have, and this was, this was about four years ago now. And this was kind of in the middle of the process. So I don’t know if this was exactly, exactly what was the catalyst for, for this change for me or whatever. But it may have helped push me over the edge a little bit. But my, my wife had pretty significant medical issues where she started having some seizures. And she had never had seizures before in her life. And she, she ended up in a coma. And the doctors and the nurses weren’t sure what we were gonna get when she came out of this, this coma, they weren’t sure if, if she was going to be responsive. They didn’t know they didn’t know what was going to happen when she eventually came out of a coma. And so, yeah, that was a scary situation for me, because here I am, with three kids, you know, I’ve always relied on her. We’ve always relied on each other, I should say, to build this family. And now I’m questioning whether or not she’s going to be there anymore. And and that was, that was really scary for me. And I’m not saying that that necessarily caused me to start drinking and start, you know, falling down that this path because I think there were some other warning signs early on that I was starting to slip back into that that pattern but but that’s when I realized that I needed to get some help for myself, too. I needed to get back into it and start seeking out some sort of treatment. And I tried, you know, several different things, but but it really was once when when we found out that she was going to be okay, I realized I needed to get back in and start taking this seriously and not just say, Oh, I’ll be okay, I’ll just deal with it. I needed to do more, be more act proactive with my mental health.
Victoria Volk 47:47
I think that a situation like that, too, is such a reminder for us that we are not in control. Right. So when you’re in the military, and you’re wearing the uniform, and you’re the one that has to be in control, and everything is precise, and accurate, and you’re giving orders and taking orders and everything is you know, you know how it is. It’s a controlled, you know, we do our best to have it be a controlled environment, and respond like that when it’s not. Right. Right. And so when there’s a situation like that, like with your wife, I can see it could pull you right back into that when you lost your brother in this feeling of no sense of control out of, you know, but I also know, you had lost a dog, didn’t you?
Scott Deluzio 48:35
Yeah, well, this was this was later on. This was in the summer of 2020 that that my dog passed away. And that was that was a pretty significant loss too, because she had been with our family for, let’s say, we got her probably two months or so after my wife and I got married. So pretty much our entire marriage. She was there throughout this whole grieving process. And she was the dog that I was yelling at for throwing up on the carpet. You know, and, and the cool thing about dogs is as much of a jerk as I was to her during that time period, she still for the day that she died, she still was wagging her tail and happy to see me and we actually called her my my co worker because I work from home. And whenever I would go into the office, she’d be right at my heels she she’d always come into the office with me as she got older. She was an English bulldog. So very low energy. She would just come into the office and sleep at my feet all day and and she was happiest can be to be able to do that like that was just was was so awesome for her. So much so that on the weekends when I wouldn’t go into work, she would stand by the door and just start barking because she’s like, No, this is where we need to be right now. I need to be here and so, you know, so hurt the loss of that dog was, was significant. She had been there for the entirety of my my children’s lives up until that point. They never knew what it was like to live without a dog, my wife and I actually found it because the dog is so used to sleep in our bedroom, which had a little bed next to next to ours. My wife and I actually found it difficult to sleep at night because we didn’t have her snoring in the room with us. Which, which sounds weird. Like, you might think, like, Oh, my God, that’s so annoying, but it actually became like a, like, white noise kind of thing. Where were we almost came to expect it to be. And so yeah, it had some impact as well on on us. And, you know, we’re coming up on two years. As of the time of this recording, by the time this recording airs, it’s going to be a little bit after that, but even just last night, I was talking with my daughter, and and she was saying how she still misses the dog. And and, you know, so it’s had an impact on our family. And, you know, yeah, you can say it’s just a dog, but the people who live with the dog, like that’s, that’s a part of part of your family. And you don’t want anything bad to happen to them.
Victoria Volk 51:24
And you don’t want to break a dog owners heart by saying it’s just a dog, don’t people. Right, right. breaking their heart all over again.
Scott Deluzio 51:33
Exactly. Yeah. So
Victoria Volk 51:34
Yeah, I bring that up. Because it’s grief is cumulative. It’s cumulatively negative. So all of those things that you experienced it just stack up over time.
Scott Deluzio 51:45
Yeah, yeah. And it’s what really got me. And I knew that she didn’t have much time left with us. Just because English Bulldogs ate tend to live for about eight to 10 years, and she was pushing 12 I kind of knew it time was limited for her shoot, she was basically on borrowed time, as far as I was concerned, because that’s, you know, that they just don’t live that long. And what killed me though, was seeing my kids reaction when they found out that that she had died. The heartbreak in them was, was like, just stabbing me too, because like, I never, I don’t want my kids to be sad and upset over over things like that. But at the same time, I was glad that they knew the love that they had, right. But I’m glad that they were able to experience that because without the highs, you can’t have the lows, or maybe the other way around. Right? If you don’t have those lows, you don’t appreciate the highs as much, right? And so, you know, in a way, I was sort of glad, but at the same time, it was just it was like stabbing you with a knife. It was hard to see them experienced that.
Victoria Volk 53:06
So how do you because I know like, in those earlier years and the angry years and experiencing the grief years, you felt very angry and things and guilt and all of those things that we these feelings that we punish ourselves with, and we don’t give ourselves compassion or grace. What does that look like for you today? Now that you’ve, you’re in, you know, you’re getting help again, and things or you’re feeling more, maybe more like yourself? How has that changed for you? How you give yourself compassion and things like that?
Scott Deluzio 53:44
I think what you you said earlier about how grief is cumulative. I think that’s true for a lot of the experiences that we have in life. So you know, as you experience things, you you learn and grow from them all the way back from when you’re a kid and you touch something that was really hot for the first time. You’ve learned really quickly not to do that again, right and, but that’s like one experience that you you carried on throughout your entire life. Everything that you experience is something that you’re going to carry on throughout life in grief is included the loss of a loved one, a pet, family member, what whoever it is, there, that is something that’s going to carry with you, and how you deal with those, those things will also carry it with you. And I think I had a really hard time for for the longest time letting myself just just accept the fact that that there are certain things that are out of my control that that no matter what I did or didn’t do. It was it was his time. It was his time. wouldn’t have happened, whether I was standing right next to him or not. And so I just had to be okay with that. And, you know, it took me a while to start to accept that there are certain things just out of my control took me a while to learn how to grieve when I had lost loved ones before, you know, grandparents and things like that earlier on, but never, never someone is as close to me as my, my brother was, and I, I didn’t really know how to grieve that kind of loss. When we got into that firefight, right after I found out that he was killed. I felt like I put the grief aside, I stopped being able to grieve. And I picked up the anger. And that’s all I really knew was just how to be angry in the military. It’s almost like, applauded when, when you’re going around being angry at things all the time, like, Okay, well, this person is serious, and they’re intense. And they, they’re, you know, they’re, they’re really taking their job seriously. Okay, yeah, I get that. But when you’re coming home, and you’re screaming at your, your one year old, and you’re, you’re yelling at your dog, and you’re, you’re just being an absolute jerk. That’s not the same thing. And that’s, I think, I’ve replaced my, my grief with anger. And so for the longest time, I don’t, I don’t think I was actually even breathing, I think I was just actively being angry, trying to do something, trying to be in control of a situation I had no control over. And so it took me a while, but I eventually figured out how to accept the things that I had no control over to accept the fact that, that he was gone, that that no amount of yelling and screaming and losing my temper was going to bring him back. But what I could do is, remember the good times with him, remember, the things that we used to do the trouble we used to get into as kids remember the fun that we would have? Even as adults, we, we would go to hockey games together, and we’d have fun. i There’s various stories, I probably could tell about all that, that kind of stuff, too. But you know, I started thinking about those those things. And then I started thinking about, would he be okay with how I’m reacting to this, like if, you know, whatever people believe if they believe in heaven, and hell, and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, just imagine for a minute what, regardless of what you believe that there’s some portal to wherever they are, and they’re able to look down at us and see how we’re behaving, knowing what you know about that person, would they be proud of what you’re doing with your life and how you’re doing? Would they be upset? Would they be sad for you with?
Scott Deluzio 58:14
And I thought, you know, why not try to whether there’s that portal that I’m talking about? We’re not, why not try to live life in a way that would make him proud. And, and that’s what I’ve done, I think anyways, with, with my podcasts, you mentioned it earlier, the drive on podcast, where I I’m trying to help out other veterans who are struggling with various issues, whether it’s PTSD, or addiction or job transition, things like that. I want to help people, and so that they’re not struggling by themselves. And I’ve also written my book that talks about this whole experience of surviving son, which my goal for that is to hopefully have the other people who needed the service members who were dealing with, with stuff similar to what I was dealing with, to make sure that they realize that there are healthier ways to deal with the grief and the losses that they may experience. Maybe that those those people didn’t lose a blood relative the way I did, but maybe they lost a close friend in combat or in a training accident or something like that. There’s healthier ways to deal with it than what I did. But I also want everyone else who reads it, to realize that there is a real person behind the name that you hear on the news. Anytime that you hear about these combat deaths, you know, last year had the 1313 troops that were killed in Afghanistan during the end of that withdrawal period. Each one of those people had a family and had people who cared about them, and they had a life before that. They had a hobbies and interests and and things that they were known for. And, you know, we don’t know, every single one of them, we don’t know, maybe even don’t even know their names. But why not? Why don’t they were people who went out and laid their lifestyle down, we should take some time to get to know who these people were not that that would ever replace their being here, but it helps if their memory lives on. And so that’s, that’s what I wanted to do in my book is talk about my my brother and his upbringing and how, how we were as kids and everything. So by the time you get to the point where, you know, he’s killed, you sort of feel like you knew him before, before he was killed, and almost gives you that, that sense of like, you almost lost someone that you knew to not, not necessarily to that same extent that, that I would have grieved him or anything but but it just gives you a little perspective, little little insight into those names that you hear on the news.
Victoria Volk 1:01:08
It humanizes the story. Yeah, it does. So what is one of your most favorite memories with Steven or have Steven or a memory that like would embody who he was.
Scott Deluzio 1:01:21
So he was, he was kind of a goofball. He would, he would always do things to make people laugh. No matter what, no matter what the situation was, if you were having a bad day, you came home from work or school or whatever, and you’re having a bad day, he’d figured out a way to get you to laugh. If you were telling a story, talking about something that was boring to him. If he was standing there, he would literally collapse on the ground and pretend like he was sleeping. Because that was his way of saying, Hey, this is boring. I don’t want to talk about this anymore. And so we’d all start laughing because it was it was just funny, right? There was there’s one time and I talked about this in the book, because I think I’m gonna steal that. You know what the, we’ve done that, too. Like after, after he passed away, sometimes we’ll be sitting around, I’ll be sitting with my parents and talking and they’ll be saying something and I’m like, This is so boring is stupid. And I’ll just like put my head down and like
Victoria Volk 1:02:19
I wanna do that to someone see what the reaction is.
Scott Deluzio 1:02:26
But so so this other story that I talked about in my book, I think really shows how much life he had in him and how lively of a person he was. So we were up in Boston, watching a Boston Bruins hockey game, and they were playing the Montreal Canadiens. And it’s big rivalry between Montreal and Boston and, and everything. And so the Bruins had won that game. And so there’s this whole big, like, USA, USA kind of vibe in the arena, right? Everyone’s like, you know, all this patriotic kind of thing. Like, oh, Canada, you know, yeah. Okay, whatever, Canada, you know, that kind of stuff. And so, he and I had been a few few beers deep at that point, you know, really enjoying the game. And so if you’ve ever walked out of a pro sports arena, you know that the sea of people, you’re waddling like penguins trying to get out of place, right. And there’s, there’s this hole, as far as your I can see almost, there’s people, right? Well, we’re standing there, and with this whole big patriotic vibe going, my brother starts yelling, USA, USA, and he gets the entire arena, all of these people to start chanting that too. And, and it’s amazing. It’s like deafening how loud it was because we’re in the small, like, hallway corridor kind of thing. And it continues all the way into the stairwell walking out of the place, going down out into the street. And it’s just funny, right? So he and I had nothing but the or up until that point. And so we were pretty hungry. And we found a burger place across the street, and we went in to go get some food. And so we sit down and the waiter comes by and it takes our order and and he asked my brother is Canadian bacon, okay, on your burger. And my brother looks at him like he was about to rip his face off. And he goes, hell no. I want American bacon on this burger. And then he cracks a smile and we realized that he’s just joking, right? And then the waiter goes Would would you like french fries with that? And he has that same disgusted look on his face. Because hell no, I want American fries and the guy is like, I don’t even know what to do with that but you’re gonna get price whatever, you know, but, but you know, that’s just the kind of guy he was where he could get an entire arena to start chanting you USA USA. And then he can flip to just joking around with a waiter at the restaurant. And it was just to me, it was a very memorable time. You know, if he was still here today, I don’t even know if he would remember that he had done any of that. But to me, it was just like, that’s him. That’s that’s his personality. And I think that that gives a good good example of who he was.
Victoria Volk 1:05:25
Wit and humor. Yeah, I love that. I’ll probably share that story later. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing everything that you have, I have no doubts that this is going to be helpful for many people I could have, I wanted to like dig into more the alcohol and you know, because that’s a stir by talked about that earlier. And anger is also a sturb. And I could have gotten there too in the conversation. But I feel very whole and complete with what we’ve talked about. And I want to give you an opportunity to share anything else if there if you have anything else to share?
Scott Deluzio 1:06:03
Yeah, a couple of things. You know, for people who are going through grief, like like this, or any kind of grief, some people say it gets better with time, I don’t know that that’s true, I think it gets different. You kind of learn to live with that difference in your life. You know, you learn to live with that loved one, not in your life anymore, you start to learn how to not rely on that person being there, and you adjust. So life gets different. And the sooner you get Okay, with the fact that life gets different, I think the easier you’ll use your time you’ll have with the whole process. Not I’m not trying to say that it ever gets easy. It just gets different. And when you have that difference, and you’re okay with that difference, it does get easier. Because you’re not, you’re not swimming upstream, you’re not fighting against the current or whatever you’re, you’re, you’re kind of accepting it and, and moving on and learning how to how to live life. Without whatever that thing is in your life that you’re you’re grieving. So you know, anything from loss of a loved one or pet, a job loss relationship that ends, all of those are different types of grief. But the sooner you you learn to accept the fact that things are just going to be different. I think that the sooner you can get on with with life and have a happier, more fulfilling life, if I can. I know we mentioned my podcast earlier, the drive on podcasts for any veterans or loved ones of veterans who might be struggling to drive on podcast, you can find it at Drive on podcast.com. And then my book, Surviving son, you can get that on Amazon. Just search for surviving son, and it should should pop up there. It’s also at surviving son book.com. And you can find it there. But, but ultimately, the goal for me is to help people find hope, where they might feel that all hope is lost. So you know if there’s anything that I’ve said or have worked on that that might help people. That’s really the goal for me is just to get that information out there. And I can help as many people as possible.
Victoria Volk 1:08:42
Thank you so much. And I’ll actually I’ll put the links to those mentions in the show notes just to piggyback what you had shared. It’s about time, it’s making the choice to take action in that time. That really is the catalyst for change. It’s making a choice to make a change and taking action towards that change that you want to see in your life and in your grief. So, thank you so much. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Mental Health, Sexual Trauma, Veteran |
Ruthie Bowles | Fight, Flight, & Freeze: Sexual Assault in the Military
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Ruthie Bowles shares her story of being raped not once but twice during her time serving in the U.S. Army full-time. The first assault occurred at the hands of her then-boyfriend. The second time she was assaulted was the very day she came back from deployment.
Surviving a deployment, only to come home and be assaulted in her own private space, along with the previous assault, set Ruthie up for a long road of healing.
Between her first case never being resolved, leaving her to feel defeated and made to feel like a victim all over again, she never gave it a second thought to not report the second assault. Besides, she was higher ranking and, she had already learned, from her first experience, that the process of reporting was painful and yielded zero justice.
Ruthie shares how these experiences impacted her decisions moving forward, how she nearly lost the love of her life, and how her experiences influence how she parents her children.
There is something to learn for everyone in this episode. We discuss:
- Fight, Flight, & Freeze; you never know what you’ll do in a situation until you find yourself in it.
- Shame and sexual assault.
- The revictimization sexual assault victims are often subjected to after reporting – and even by well-meaning friends.
- Red flags in relationships.
- The mind-mess that happens when consent isn’t given.
- Her transition from military to civilian life after these experiences.
- Tips for how she began to heal.
- Things to look out for in friends who may have something they’re afraid to share, specifically a sexual assault.
- Military sexual assault stats.
- Why the phrase “boys are easier to raise than girls” drives her nuts and the one thing many parents of boys are probably missing when it comes to the “sex talk.”
Resources Mentioned/Worth Mentioning:
Need help?
Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.
Connect with Ruthie:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Thank you for joining me on another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Ruthie Bowles. Welcome, Ruthie, thank you for being here.
Ruthie Bowles 00:11
Thank you, Victoria. I’m really happy to be here.
Victoria Volk 00:15
This is going to be a much-needed conversation around the military. And we’re both, we’re both service members, please share with us a little bit of your background and we’ll go from there.
Ruthie Bowles 00:33
Okay, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, yes, I am a veteran, I joined the US Army when I was 18. right out of high school, I traded a scholarship before I traded a scholarship for boot camp, basically, oh. And they got me because they didn’t get me but I was planning on going to school for cultural studies. I hadn’t picked my geographic region or culture of specialty ad just at that moment. But they told me like, hey, if learning languages and stuff is what you’re interested in, we have jobs for that. And I was like, Oh, really? That’s interesting. And they’re like, yeah, and you can get to go to the California language school Defense Language Institute in California, Monterey, beautiful Monterey, and you know, you get paid, you know, and that’s your work for the whole time that you’re there. And I was like, that sounds legit. And I don’t have to waste a bunch of time on useless classes, like more calculus, useless to me. I have yet to use high school calculus. And so yeah, so I joined right out of high school. And so I consider myself a very fortunate, I don’t want to say lucky, because that was my choice to join. But I’m very fortunate millennial in that I do not have any student loans, because I opted to join the military instead, you know, I went to California, I was in school for tech, or I was in Texas for school, and did some training Arizona, some training in Washington, DC, which was fantastic. And then I deployed to Afghanistan. I met my husband in Afghanistan, and we had a long-distance relationship for a while because he came back before I did, and my first duty station was Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and that was where I deployed from came back. I was stationed in Georgia, after that, and then stationed in Texas and ended up getting out because just a week before my husband was actually going to relocate to Maryland for a while for work. And then we were you know, I was planning on requesting a change of station and going there. Since I was coming from a training duty station, they typically give you your next assignment, and I hadn’t been assigned to Maryland yet. A week before he left I found out I was pregnant with our third child. And so I did the math. And I was like, ooh, so I already have two toddlers and then then I have the baby. And then I’d be here for more time by myself. Yeah, no, I’m not. I can’t do that. Like not especially not on a training base in Texas, right? No, neither of us has any family, no support, no nothing. So, um, I was like, Yeah, I can do that. So I separated and I became a stay at home mom for a while, then we decided to stay in Maryland. And we wanted to buy a house. So I went back to work as a federal contractor. The way we were set up in the company, because we were set up by language, I had no options for promotion or anything, really. And so that was incredibly disheartening as like the high achieving person that I am. So then I started to explore alternatives. And I started consulting on the side and marketing of all things, no experience there. But you know, that’s what the military taught me is, hey, you don’t know it. You can learn it. So that’s good. Yeah, yeah. Right. And so so that’s what I did. I learned it. And you know, as I got more results for clients, I got more clients. And then I was pregnant with my fourth child, and I use my maternity leave to quit my job and grow my business, you know, to a full time capacity in that three months, and that was in 2018. And here we are still going strong, full time. You know, things look a little different with Coronavirus and everything. But one of the driving parts in terms of what we’re talking about today, and when you look at that timeline is that when I got out of boot camp, basic training, and I was in California, I experienced my first sexual assault while I was in California on that training base, and it was somebody I was dating, but it was an incredibly unhealthy relationship. And he was very emotionally and mentally manipulative. Really good at gas lighting and you know, all of those things. And then the right after I got home from deployment, so I was a sergeant and At the time, and it was I experienced my second sexual assault, it was the day I got back that night, in my barracks room. And you know, it was completely like I didn’t, I barely knew this person is completely different scenarios, completely different situation. And so those two things, those two occurrences really had a serious impact on me, of course, as I built up to the, you know, going through the ranks and getting promoted, and then even like, on a personal level, my relationships, and then even some of the PTSD, I suffer now, which means some things happened while I was still serving in terms of like the PTSD symptoms that I experienced. But there were some that cropped up later, after I became a civilian, working in on a base where there were a lot of military members. So I know we’ll get into a lot of that stuff. But that is a big overview. I’m married. We live in Maryland, as I said, I’ve got three goats, 12, chickens, 10, ducks, and I have four children, three boys, and my youngest is a girl. So, we just, we’ve got a lot going on over here.
Victoria Volk 06:19
That’s awesome. Let’s go back then in time, to that first experience, because what many people may not think about a sexual assault within a relationship? Is that yes, you can be sexually assaulted in in a relationship? And because no, is no. And so, take us back to that time, and how that changed things for you moving forward.
Ruthie Bowles 06:46
Reflecting on it, I like at the time, like and anytime something horrible, like that happens you, you of course, like wish that it hadn’t, you know, because it’s horrible. But at the same time, as I mentioned, like the relationship was incredibly manipulative. He was my first relationship since I joined the military, I had a long distance like boyfriend from back home, and that didn’t you know, that didn’t pan out, imagine that. And, you know, coming right out of high school and being so young, and he kind of swooped in on the coattails of that emotionally, and was able to take advantage of me. And that that was like there was no alcohol involved. There was it was just I did not want to at that moment. And he did. And people talk about you know, and this and this stuff comes up all the time. And for anybody who’s listening, keep an eye on how you respond in on like Facebook and social media and stuff, because you are showing survivors who maybe are not comfortable sharing their story yet that they definitely can’t be comfortable with you. Because people always say things like, well, why didn’t you fight him? Why didn’t you ask for help? Why didn’t you scream, you said you were in the barracks? And the thing was, is that and thinking back, my brain could not comprehend what was happening to me. Because especially at that age, I think like you’re just so very much wrapped up in bad things happen to other people, and they don’t happen to me. And so, you know, there’s fight and there’s flight, but there’s also freeze. And that’s what happened to me. I just could not process what was happening to me while it was happening. And I just couldn’t believe it. And even while it was happening, there’s just so much shame fighting or running away would mean that other people would know and I definitely I definitely didn’t want that. And so, the big thing about that though, is that if that hadn’t happened, I might not have been able to break up with him when I did. And even right after like, just to give you an idea of how emotionally twisted this relationship was even right after he was acting upset and apologizing and I was comforting him while also trying to simultaneously get him out of my room. But once he was gone It was kind of like this magic spell at least that that part of it kind of evaporated and disappeared and I was like okay, yeah, I can’t I can’t be with him anymore. And he stalked me for months. After that, you know, I’m assuming just like kind of trying to like wait me out. And I hadn’t reported it. I hadn’t told anybody. Because again, it was just there was a lot of shame around it. But my best friend and roommate, we went out to see the Dark Knight movie in theaters while we were in California. And when I got back, we are just Hey, I remember I remember like so clearly are certain parts I remember so clearly. Like I barely remember the movie, but I remember getting back to my barracks room and taking off my purse and hanging it on my chair and my roommate and I talking about how good the movie was. I picked up my phone and it vibrated, and I remember looking at it flipping it because it was one of those slidy phones, I was very fancy slidy phone and looking at it, and seeing how was the movie. And it was from him. And I’m not talking to him at this point, like we’re not communicating. And so either one of his friends told him I was there, or he followed me there or something else like it was, it was just it caused me to freeze and chills and and so that was the I was like, Okay, I’m going to report it because he’s obviously not going to stop and this is getting even more dangerous and more scary. And so yeah, so the next day I reported it to a sergeant at my language school and you know, per the rules because I told and I that was the thing is like, I want this to be an unrestricted report because he shouldn’t be allowed to do this to me. So I made sure to tell somebody who was obligated to run it up as an unrestricted report versus telling somebody who was obligated to keep it restricted. And so I ran through the whole process that day I might have chosen to tell him that Sergeant earlier in the day if I had known that like it was going to kick everything off the way that it did. But you know, I got you know, ended up we have in the military, we’ve got a Sexual Assault Response coordinator, at least that’s what they were called at the time sark’s. And then I was also taken with that person, that woman, I was taken to the Criminal Investigative division, their office, the CIT office. And so he’s taking my statement, this officer, and you know, it’s been months now. And he’s like, okay, we don’t really have any evidence. I was like, Well, what if he confessed? And he’s like, would he do that? And I was like, if I call him right now, I think he would. He was like, well, we can record that. And yeah, and then we would use that. He was like, do you think you can do that? And I was like, he Yeah, yeah, cuz he’s been stalking me. And I don’t want to live like this anymore. And so, I’ve got the SARC person on one side, she was on my left side, on the long side of the table, and then the CIT officer was sitting on the short side of the table. And I put my phone on speakerphone, lay it on the table. He’s got a tape recorder right next to it, because we weren’t super fancy yet. And so, he had a tape recorder right next to it, and he’s on speakerphone. And so, I call him and you know, as like, Hey, I got your text message. And so he was just like, Yeah, I just really wanted to talk to you never respond. And so, I just thought that that would get you to respond. And you know, I’m just really sorry, and I just want to get back together. And I was like, but what you did was horrible. And he was like, I know, and I was He’s like, I know, and I should never have done it. I was like, so you admit it then? I was like, so you admit that you raped me that that day? And he was like, Yeah, he’s like I did. And I’m so sorry. And you know, I got off the phone with him. I wasn’t even really listening anymore after he said, after he confessed, and they went and picked him up. And so it seemed like it was in the bag in terms of closure and being over, you know, this part. And the SARC coordinator, she dropped me off back in my barracks room was telling me about all like, the, you know, they’ve got group therapy options, and, you know, I could do individual therapy. And you know, she would schedule me for medical testing, and all these things. And so she said, she would call me and she had some paperwork for me and everything. I was like, okay, and they and like, and then the CD had gone to pick them up. So they Okay, finally, this is over. And it was not, it was not over. I never heard from the SART coordinator ever again, like she disappeared in terms of how I understood things to be, there was never any group therapy or individual therapy or medical testing, which it turned out that I needed because he had given me chlamydia, which I didn’t find out until months later was picked up by ci D. But then, you know, he was released, like, you know, pending the investigation. And it was a few months later when I was getting ready to do my language testing and things so I could leave the language school. I mean, he did have a restraining order, which is hard on a small base. So yeah, so there was a restraining order, but he was pretty good at being present without breaking it. So I was typically the person who left any place where I saw him.
Victoria Volk 14:14
So he was still stalking you at the time?
Ruthie Bowles 14:18
On the way Yeah, yeah, just you know, kind of staying out of the bounds and things like that. And then when I get closer, it’s time for me to leave the jag. That’s our you know, our military judicial officer system. They came back and had my chain of command call me in and I was like, Oh, great. Somebody is about to tell me the results of the case. Great. No, that’s not what’s happening. They call me back in because ci D had stored my recording, which was basically my only piece of evidence as compelling as it was it was the only piece next to some sort of a track unit or air conditioning unit or whatever, that malfunctioned and destroyed. I tape as well as some other people’s thing. And so jag said they had to take my statement and get in all of its detail. And so I gave it again, not thinking and then, you know, it was just kind of, Okay, I took it. And then I just I just wanted to forget about it again, because I needed to go take this language test so I could graduate and it was actually around that time, because you’re doing processing to get off the base. So part of that is medical. So I did do testing and that was around the time as well that I found out that I had chlamydia. Thankfully, it wasn’t anything, you know, permanent. And I was able to, you know, get rid of it. It wasn’t until I moved on to my next duty station, where the jag office was headquartered for the two bases. It was at the next duty station. I walked past it every day, wondering like, Man, what happened, what happened? And then a few months, I had been in there and I started seeing some of his classmates show up. And I was like, what if I walk past him here? Like, nobody has told me what happened, like with my case. So, one day, I go to the jag office, go up to the appropriate floor, I sign in, and I end up in front of one of the same jag officers who took my second statement after my evidence was destroyed. And she was incredibly uncomfortable. And she was like, so nobody told you what happened with your case. Like somebody was supposed to tell you like, didn’t you get contacted by Sark? I’m like, no, I never heard from her ever again. The day after, like the day I reported that was last time I saw her so can you please just tell me and so she said she was incredibly uncomfortable. And so, she told me that because my evidence was destroyed. And all they had was my statement, the Air Force had opted to give him a letter of reprimand. So that was the other part where it was confusing was that it was a Joint Service incident. And so the Air Force was in charge of determining what his punishment was to be not the army. And so the Air Force decided probably based on the merits of the fact that he was such a great airman. Because he was, at least on the surface, right, he got a letter of reprimand. And so, I left the office feeling just like completely let down like I had wished that I had just let him continue to stalk me until we left because that whole process like because it was a unrestricted report, even while I was still at the language school, like there were people talking about me and all this other stuff. And because he was such a good airman on the outside, and he was very charismatic, had a ton of friends, like so then now all of his friends hate me. It was really bad. And I regretted reporting, for sure. So, when it happened the second time, like I was just like, no, y’all are not doing this to me again. And I’m a sergeant now. And I was assaulted by somebody who was one rank lower than me alcohol involved. And it was the day we got back from deployment, like I was in more danger in my own barracks room, then I was over there, they shot at us. That’s true. But the most damage that happened to me was right when I got back home. And so I definitely didn’t report that I was planning, you know, I was I just re enlisted, I was changing duty stations in a few months again, and I didn’t want to be held up there for this guy who had a lot, a lot of things in common in terms of him as a person, because he looked like a great soldier on the surface, he was engaged to somebody who lived across the hall from me, he was, you know, getting ready for promotion, you know, he looked the part of a good soldier. And I was like, yeah, I’m not going up against that again. So I did not report it. The second time, because of that, like that first experience taught me that nobody was going to help me, and that it was just going to be horrible for me.
Victoria Volk 18:27
Thank you for sharing, first of all, your story on that. And I’m curious too, and maybe the listeners were there warning signs for the first time?
Ruthie Bowles 18:42
I mean, just the whole relationship was bad, like, like he was really good at guilting me into things, and making it seem like any emotional hang ups that I had, were like hurting him. And I’m, I’m an incredibly empathetic person, I qualify as a highly sensitive person. And so I’m just I’m very sensitive to the emotions and what I perceive is the needs of other people. And especially at that age, I was very good at subjugating my own needs in favor of taking care of, you know, whoever I considered my people. Now this is fine. In reciprocal relationships where the other person is willing to do as much for you as you are for them. Whether it’s a romantic relationship or a relationship, like a friend relationship, like my best friend at the time, we’re still best friends, because we had that type of relationship where I would do anything for her, but she would also do anything for me. And that was fine. But when you’re that type of person where you will do anything for someone else and an empathetically, you’re so good at just reading body language and my facial expressions and, and things like that, like you pick up and try to take care of and satisfy whatever even if they haven’t said it, and they can hurt you almost as much as if they had, you know, actually struck a blow with a facial expression, or a shift in body language because you’re so in tune with the people around you. And so the whole relationship was a warning sign because he was that type of person to take advantage. The whole relationship was bad. But the thing is, is it looked great on the surface, like many things, it looked great on surf, you know, we looked like a good couple, we did all the right things, we went to the movies together, and we studied together, we went to go eat, and we like to dance like on the surface, things looked good. And so the only person who would have been privy to the warning signs probably would have been me, but I just I wasn’t aware. And because of the the huge culture shock to joining. And basic training, like you volunteer in the United States, you volunteer, but you’re still ripped away from everything, right? Like all the people, as long as you have a healthy home environment, all of the people who love you and your friends and everything that’s familiar, you’re ripped away and thrown into this thing. And and when I went through basic training, they still screamed in your face. Right, like, I remember crying the first day because like, like I could have been in college, and here I am getting dirty and dusty, and there’s dirt in my eyes, and I’m just crying into the dirt because I can’t do all these pushups that they want me to do, like, the culture shock was still happening even at the language school, it doesn’t wear off because you’re still adjusting. And then of course, having the relationship with the boyfriend back home go bad, coupled with all of those other things, I was just like, a quivering pile of vulnerability in a set of AC use the army combat uniform, at like just waiting for somebody to walk by and take advantage. You know, maybe that’s something that should be more readily considered, at least in terms of training soldiers, you know, probably very much like college students. But with a bit more extreme ness, you know, when compared with the college experience in terms of how you’re, you know, you’re you’re pulled in and how you’re broken down and built back up. I obviously was not built back up in some of the right places. You know, basic training is not necessarily meant to give you you know, emotional resilience and understanding, you know, how those types of things can happen to you in relationships. They don’t put those up on the quarterly slideshows.
Victoria Volk 22:35
Well, one thing too, the military doesn’t take into consideration. And I’ve spoken about this before on in other podcasts and things like that, but that they never really do a screening of what’s happened to you, what have you gone through in your life? What are your aces, you know, in, you know, your adverse childhood experiences? Because the more aces you have, the more susceptible you are, to having addiction issues, you’re more vulnerable to somebody to take advantage of you. When you haven’t processed any childhood trauma or anything like that. That’s one thing I wish that they would do for people who want to enlist in the military. So, thank you for bringing that point up. I think it’s very important. And for parents who are listening, and their kid wants to join the military take into consideration it isn’t for everybody. Would you agree? Like it’s not for everybody.
Ruthie Bowles 23:35
It’s not and then even just on the surface, when you look at the number of people who you know, would fail out, or what we would say whether they would recycle, they’d have to do it again, those are all those are all indicators. And just to be clear, I loved being a soldier. I loved it. And part of what I felt like my mission as a soldier was was to improve things so those types of things, at least happened less or stopped happening all together, I had decided that I was gonna I was going to retire I was going to be like that crunchy old Sergeant that people just didn’t understand why this person doesn’t just get out. I wanted to be that person because I wanted to be in long enough to incite real change and to help people and to try and affect some culture change. So for people who want to join or parents who have children who want to join I like I had the person I am right now I would not be without my experience. And my military experience overall was positive. It was like I like I said, if I if I hadn’t felt like I had to get out when I was pregnant with my third child, I would still be in but maybe instead I would be okay now. You know, Ruby’s Master Sergeant. bowls are something you know, I wanted to be a Command Sergeant Major. And I wanted to make serious changes within what we call the sexual harassment, Assault Response Program sharp, I wanted to be involved in making serious changes there. So just just to be clear, I do love the person that I am right now. And I again looking back like I can’t. Now I can’t say I wish those things hadn’t happened, because I’ve learned that I was strong enough to bear it. And now I’m in a position where I can talk with people like you openly about it, and hopefully, give some encouragement and energy and hope to people who aren’t yet at a point where they feel comfortable sharing when something like this happens, you feel incredibly alone, and there’s so much shame that you bear that is not your own. And that is the position I’m in now is that I can share. At a minimum, I can share and hope that somebody will hear it, who needs to hear it and gives them something, whatever they need whatever they can extract from my story, I hope that they extract it, and they can take what they need from it. And so that is the position I’m in now. And I’m just grateful that I was a strong enough person to be able to bear it and then move forward,
Victoria Volk 26:15
I would agree to like it, if it wouldn’t have been for my military experience, I wouldn’t be the person I am today, it was a very positive experience for me as well. I’m just saying for someone who’s gone through, you know, sexual trauma or things like that broken homes, for a lot of people, it’s a way out to join the military, because it’s a way out there escaping something. And so in those instances, and then you go on, you deploy and some people deploy time after time after time, and that’s where the mental health crisis within the military is what it is today. So all of it plays a factor and things that need to change and be addressed. And I think they’re, I think there’s strides being taken and doing so far. There was actually an episode of ABC 2020. I just watched this last weekend. I DVR it, DVR a lot of crime shows anyway, but it was about Vanessa again. And she was a I believe a private first class for a promotion, who had been being sexually harassed by a fellow soldier who was higher ranking than her I think a sergeant at the time and ended up being ultimately murdered by him because she was going to report it. And towards the end of the episode representative Jackie’s spire spear, I’m not sure how you say it. She’s the US House of Representatives in California, she had said, and I want to share the statistic because I think it’s important. She said that 20,000 service members are sexually assaulted every year, only 5000 of them will report it. And of the 5000 only 500 will go to a court martial. And only 250 of those 500 will actually be convicted. And she said what does that tell anyone who has been sexually assaulted? don’t report because you will not receive justice. And I think this is very similar. I mean, this story. And this was at Fort Hood, which has this story really opened a can of worms on it is happening at Fort Hood. There’s a huge internal and external investigation going on right now. But I think though that story is one of millions. And it’s not just the military, it’s just in general, I think in sexual assault, you don’t report because you’re scared because you’re intimidated by your offender or feel shame.
Ruthie Bowles 28:40
And her numbers in terms of who it’s happening to, like I would even question those, right? Because you can’t like we in the military, we’ve got the restricted and unrestricted reports. Right. But then you also have people who don’t report at all, right? Like my second, my second one was not counted. Why? Because I did not report it at all. And I lived in a military barracks, our floor was male and female, half the floor was female. So he just walked down the hallway, you know, um, and that’s just it is it is, what it is, at least in terms of how things were set up, and how vulnerable you know, a position we were in, but you can’t count people who don’t report, not necessarily so even that 20,000 like that’s an estimate. That’s an error, for sure. And I’m willing to bet that it’s worse because, you know, alcohol, you know, abuse and such runs rampant, especially when you look at the bases who deployed time and time again, that the base that I was on, where I deployed from they they were like 12 months on 12 months off. So they deployed pretty much every other year, and then they just plugged you back in. They’re like yeah, okay, you’re back now. Don’t crash your car, or that new motorcycle you just bought, which happens all the time.
Victoria Volk 29:52
Well, and you’re so young, right? Like you said, 18 like you don’t know yourself when you’re 18 I think some people we don’t I like, I don’t even think I really knew myself until oh, gosh, 35?
Ruthie Bowles 30:04
Yeah, I’m learning new things about me. It’s wonderful.
Victoria Volk 30:10
Yeah, so I think it’s just like, how can you possibly, it is there’s so much responsibility. First of all, I think that we have when we’re in the military when you wear the uniform, and there’s a different culture there for sure. Yeah. Um, how has this impacted you? Do you feel as a parent?
Ruthie Bowles 30:34
So, this, uh, my experiences, to be honest, any time and I mean, it’s not that anybody has a way of knowing that anytime somebody says that it’s easier to raise boys than it is to raise girls. Anytime somebody says that. I like whether I see it on Facebook, somebody says it out loud. I always reflect on my experiences. I don’t want to say that it’s like a trigger. Exactly. Because I don’t, at least not anymore. emotionally. I don’t like spiral necessarily. But I do. I am bit more vocal about it now. But I was a girl, right young woman who was sexually assaulted twice, I was sexually assaulted by two young men. I have three boys. And it was like, oh, you finally got your girl, you’re gonna have to watch out for her. And it’s like, that’s true. Like, you know, people talk about girls, you know, getting pregnant, but they get pregnant because they have sex with boys. You know? And it’s like, oh, if your girl goes out like what if something happens to her. More than likely if something happens to her and it’s of a sexual nature, it’s going to be by a boy. Boys are not easier to raise than girls. As much as I don’t want my daughter to go out and have something bad happened to her, I do not want my son’s to go out and be the bad thing that happens to somebody else’s daughter and so that is something that I always think about any time that comes up like Oh your boy mom, or at least when I was just just a boy mom, it was so easy. I always think of that and anybody who has sons like I think that should be a concern. You have to have those conversations with your children no matter their gender, or what they identify as because if it’s not openly stated, then they’re not going to know their options. Right? Like if something happens at a high school party or college or something and nothing was ever openly stated like hey, if this happens to you, this is what we’re going to go do and you know, we’ll talk about options after that but we at least want to make sure you go to the doctor and you know here are some warning signs that maybe somebody is following you or or anything like or talk to like so in my case it would be talking to for sure to my son’s and make sure like, Hey, don’t let peer pressure allow you to take advantage of somebody like that’s not okay, in fact, I better see you keep your friends from trying to take advantage of that person as well. Like it’s talking about the entire scenario, not just as if they have the potential for being a victim but also if they have the potential for being a perpetrator and what that looks like because as a culture, you know a dude and I’m you know, I’m using this as a stereotypical setup, because anybody can be sexually assaulted. But especially in the military, a dude, you know, hooking up with a girl who’s had too much to drink. That’s a high five moment, right?
Victoria Volk 33:20
College too, especially, right?
Ruthie Bowles 33:23
Yeah, notch on the bedpost, good for you, you got game, you know, ladies, man, that’s what that is. That’s how they see it. That’s how they’re taught to see it, it’s a display of their masculinity, when Instead, it should be viewed as, hey, you’re a perpetrator, you’re taking advantage of this person. That’s how they need to be taught. And so that is what I feel is my responsibility as a parent is to do that for my children not to talk to them, just as if they only have the potential to be victims. We’re human, there’s a duality in us for great good or for great evil and it’s my job. As a parent I feel to prepare my children for either to prepare them for the the fact that they may be in a position one day where no, they weren’t like following, you know, maybe some stranger from a bar or something. Maybe this is somebody that they go to class with or work with. So no, you weren’t like stalking them down the street and hiding in the shadows. But that is not what the vast majority of sexual assault perpetrators look like. They don’t look like somebody creeping in the shadows, they look like someone you know. Now we have to be more open and talking about that, especially as individuals in terms we have the power to either, you know, be somebody who’s standing steps up for people who are in a vulnerable position, or somebody who takes advantage of people in those vulnerable positions. So as a parent, it’s something I think about a lot, especially as I look at my kids and my oldest one is nine and my youngest one, she’s two and a half. And it’s something I think about a lot because I want to share my experiences with them not in such a way that it like scars them necessarily, but I often hold myself up as Hey, this could happen. And if you learn something from my story whether you know me or you’re my child and it’s intimate or, or you’re my brother or my sister because I have five siblings, whether whoever you are, if you take something from the story, then great. And that’s why I try so hard to openly share it. So even with my kids, it’s being very open about okay. She said she’d like so Evelyn, that’s my daughter. Sometimes she doesn’t want a hug. And the boys get sad. They’re like, Oh, I’m sad that she was 100 mins like, Okay, well give her a few minutes, you know, maybe you can ask her again. But she said no, right now. So you need to leave it alone. He’s like, Yeah, she gave me a hug a few minutes ago. I was okay, but she doesn’t want to give you a hug right now. So you need to leave her alone. And then like, usually, like 30 seconds later, I was like, Huh, you know, but you can’t force her. And it’s even to the same among the boys. Even when they’re playing. It’s like okay, well, you know, Cameron says he doesn’t want to play anymore right now. You can’t just keep roughhousing with him and he doesn’t want to play anymore. He said not to touch him anymore. But we were just playing. I don’t care. He said he doesn’t want play anymore.
Victoria Volk 36:00
No, is no.
Ruthie Bowles 36:01
No is no.
Victoria Volk 36:02
And if we don’t I absolutely I love that this came up because when you don’t instill that in your child when they’re young that knows no, and when I say no, it deserves to be respected.
Ruthie Bowles 36:15
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 36:16
That someone will stick up for me if someone isn’t listening, right? Well, he might advocate for me How do you ever learn to say no when you’re 16, 24, 35 whatever it is, right?
Ruthie Bowles 36:29
Whatever age, yeah. And that’s the big thing. And yeah, we just we have to make okay getting that consent like that is we need to make getting consent attractive.
Victoria Volk 36:40
Yep. I agree.
Ruthie Bowles 36:41
We’ll like having those types of discussions like and it’s all I think it’s probably a larger conversation, but it’s all shrouded in the general sense of shame we have regarding animals anything of a sexual nature right so if the very act itself even when it’s among consenting adults is shrouded in even a layer of shame. How like anything that comes after that just has additional shame. Like even and even for myself you know being you know in a relationship I’m married my experiences made it really hard to talk about you know, certain things you know, whatever it was that I was you know, interested in things that I like things that I didn’t like it made it hard to, to even even on the emotional side of the relationship to be comfortable with any type of confrontation, any type of confrontation, because if I like then I after the first time I went through this phase where it was like well if I don’t say no, then you can’t take it from me. Right whatever it is. If I don’t say no, you’re not taking it from me. But I mean if I if I give my consent 100% of the time even if I technically don’t want to I mean that that was an internal battle that I had to learn how to fight because I was mostly on my own but yeah, we have to make getting consent and having those types of conversations and incredibly attractive thing and as my kids get older it’ll be something that we talk about because you know just because you know our sexual activities are you know, private. I want to try and be as clear as possible in terms of the fact that it should not have any shame attached to it like we like we all go to the bathroom Yes, we shut the door, but is what you’re doing in there shameful. No, but we shut the door. And I just I want that to be a more clear distinction like just because I’m shutting the door doesn’t mean that it should be I should be embarrassed. And that’s something else I’m hoping to teach my kids as we have you know, those types of conversations around you know, anything related to sex.
Victoria Volk 38:43
I love that analogy. Thank you for sharing that.
Ruthie Bowles 38:45
You’re welcome.
Victoria Volk 38:46
And my son is 15 and then I have a 14 year old and almost 12 year old so yeah, I’m starting to navigate the teen years and I just remember how hard it is you know you just you start to remember and think back to when you’re a teenager and just how difficult those waters are to navigate and and again to like with my son it’s it’s showing him no this is not how you talk about girls. This is not how you refer to other two females or things like that, you know, having that conversation of of just respect. How do you show respect? Like what does respect look like towards the opposite sex and yeah, I think that’s huge too. I mean, it really comes down to respect.
Ruthie Bowles 39:37
Yeah, for sure. And just kind of normalizing it you know, and being very clear so you know, I mean, we’re careful even about like what the kids watch like if we’re not around and stuff like that, because there’s a lot that slid in under the radar. I realized now in terms of you know what I saw on TV or heard on the radio when I was growing up a lot slid under the radar. A lot And you know, so we have to, we have to keep an eye on that. I mean in nothing, no system, no person is perfect. We can’t it’s not this not about trying to keep them in a bubble necessarily, but my biggest thing is that if something happens, I want my kids to feel as if they can come back to me, if they’re in a situation, I want them to have heard me say how important consent is so many times that they can’t help but think about it in any situation that they’re in where it comes up. And, you know, and that’s, that’s, you know, that’s what I feel like I can be for my family, for my friends from my network is just, you know, oh, I don’t know anybody that this has happened to, it’s like, well, no, no, you know, me, you know, me and I can tell you with 1,000% certainty is mathematically improbable or impossible is that is that, you know, people, they’re just not comfortable sharing with you, but you know, them, and they are probably way closer than you think they are. They are probably way closer than you think they are. They could be your aunts; they could be your mom. It could be your dad or your grandparents your uncle’s like, it could be anybody. But because of that shame, they haven’t shared with you. And, and symptoms of what we go through pop up so far after. That was something I did want to say because I was so surprised when it came up. But when I became a federal contractor, I started experiencing anxiety any time I was alone with a service member, who was a man or identified as a man, who was, you know, had a man appearance, and they were in uniform, I started experiencing severe anxiety, if I ended up alone with them. And you’re thinking like, well, how would you end up alone with them, the place I used to work has a ton of elevators. And you might be surprised or not at the number of times, you would end up in an elevator with just two people, especially when you know traffic isn’t high. And if it wasn’t if it wasn’t just me and one other person who was me and like, you know, if it was like two soldiers or Airmen in the sailor or something, and they were in the elevator, I would have to get off the elevator. I could not stay in the elevator with them. Now it was fine for service members that I’d gotten to know that were maybe like that I worked with every day, I did not experience that anxiety with them. But I still felt a low-grade anxiety, you know, in terms of like being alone with them. But I think it happened because I no longer had what I considered my shield, which was my uniform with my name and rank on it. Because I was a staff sergeant when I got out, and I had cultivated this persona that was pretty rough shot and you know, would completely like snap on you before asking questions like don’t mess with her, she will kick in your teeth type of personality. And I cultivated on purpose because you don’t mess with the person who you think is gonna kick you in the face. No, wait, I cultivated that personality on purpose and my uniform. And I didn’t realize how much how much I had used my uniform as a shield. But I did. And so when I went back to working in an environment with servicemembers, and I was in civilian clothes, I felt like and I often feel this way about my civilian clothes, particularly if I’m on when when we went to events if I was on my way home from an evening event, and I was in the dark when I was at work and you know, ended up in those situations. My civilian clothes felt like a trap. They felt like some sort of flag that said I was prey. And that’s something I’ve had to wrestle with, especially now as an entrepreneur and I would attend events in the evening, I would ask, you know, people to walk me to my car, because I was like I’m wearing a dress right now, which seemed like a really good idea. But now it just feels like it’s like hey, come get me. Here I am. And it saddens me to hear that but that is a new development as my life has changed. And my experience color my experiences color my perception of of, you know, my day to day, because I never used to feel that way when I was dressed in civilian clothes when I was a service member. But now that I civilian clothes, or what I wear all the time, that is something that I you know, I started going through and so being an entrepreneur now I don’t really have to worry about running into service members. But that is something I reflect on as in my time as a federal contractor like I being in an elevator with a service member was something I could not tolerate if I did not know them. And there were two parts of me one side of my brain is like that’s pretty horrible, that there’s a part of you that just assumes that this person could attack you. There’s like That’s true, but I also didn’t think the two people who actually did attack me would know, so I just get off the elevator. And I, I’m not sure how else things will pop up. But, you know, I’m actually going through the process right now of filing a VA claim. So, we will see in terms of how they’re able to evaluate my PTSD and anxiety and things, what will come from that. And because this is a newer experience for me, I’ve never gone through the VA claims process before. I am not as positive like I’m not experiencing as much positive energy regarding it. Because with this specific occurrence, and the subsequent things that have happened, since I’ve been taught over and over that the system is not to be relied on the system is not to be trusted. And so while I want this to work out, I want the VA to look at me. And I guess that’s the problem is I want the VA to look at me and acknowledge you went through these things. And they were horrible, and you’re suffering as a result of these things. And so we will be able to, you know, give you these benefits, whatever they are. The fear, of course, is that it’ll be just like, what happened to 19 year old me? And it will be, yeah, no, that’s not bad enough.
Victoria Volk 46:19
Like a victimization again?
Ruthie Bowles 46:21
Right. Like or did that even happen? Like did it happen the way that you remember it. Because this this here? This doesn’t sound very bad at all.
Victoria Volk 46:29
Well, look how much time has passed?
Ruthie Bowles 46:32
Yeah, yeah, like I got out in 2015. So it’s like, well, why didn’t you file then? Even though there’s no statute of limitations on when you can file your VA claim? FYI. So yeah, so it’s just so we’ll see what happens. But my my fear now is that of course, the the process will dig deep into my case, my reported case, at least, and come up with nothing, right? Like, I never saw the SARC person again, I never heard from CIT. There was a letter of reprimand, which probably got lost somewhere, I am afraid that they will have nothing to find.
Victoria Volk 47:05
I thought of a question. And I actually thought of it too, as I watched that ABC special but being in the military, I don’t even know the answer to this. Maybe you do. But what would have stopped you from reporting him as like on the civilian side? Like, could you it not have been? Like, is there something to it that the military is almost like its own institution in that way, when it comes to criminal acts? Like why is it that you couldn’t have reported the first incident to your local police department versus going through the military chain?
Ruthie Bowles 47:43
I think the military ends up with jurisdiction, I think, at least that’s the way it’s kind of always that I’ve always understood it. And that could be accidental or purposeful, misunderstanding that was, you know, cultivated during my time in, but it’s my understanding, because we have our own, technically, we have our own, you know, law type structure, that unless you go out and do something like, like a soldier who’s out there, you know, drinking and driving, yeah, they’re getting arrested. They’re getting arrested. And I mean, it’s incredibly likely, though, that if a chain of command is like, hey, police department, we’re actually going to give them to the MPs. And I know that most civilians feel like our military, police, and structure and our law and stuff is actually more harsh than there. So, they probably happily hand them over. But you know, if you’re out on the town, and you’re speeding, you will get a regular person ticket, you know, but if you’re on base, you will get a ticket from the police on base. So I think that if what I had gone through had been perpetrated by civilians that probably would have exclusive like that would have immediately been under the civilian police, because yes, I’m a soldier, but the perpetrator, right is, and then vice versa, if the perpetrator is military, and the victim, the survivor is civilian, then that again, that again, probably becomes a question of jurisdiction. But the civilian police would certainly be involved, whether they work things out, you know, with the military side or not, but we were both service members. Now again, I could be wrong. But one of the things I teach you though, is like that faith in the military, that faith in the system, filing some type of complaint or report to the local PD, never even crossed my mind. And once everything, you know, it was over, I just, I was tired. I was tired, and I was let down and I wanted to forget it as much as was possible. But it’s not it’s not possible. There are days I go without thinking about it. That’s true now, but I’m never going to forget it. It’s never not going to happen. impact on me, the one thing I can say is that as time goes on, I’ve been changing the type of impact that it has on me. So, it does not damage me to talk about it with you. It is not damaged me to talk about it with anybody, I may feel a little withdrawn later. So, I may curl up with like a book or something, just to kind of emotionally unplug a little bit. But when I was still serving, and we had our quarterly sexual harassment and assault training, like the programs that they would put us through in terms of like the the training, I would be emotionally upset for like a day or two, I would, I would, I would warn my husband ahead of time, I’d be like, hey, we’re doing sharp training today. And he’s like, okay, okay, and he would know, I would come home, like I just I would need to eat, I would not want to talk because I would just get so angry. I get so angry at those on every slide that went by, they would do this. And I’m like, yeah, so nobody can help us Screw you, too, you know. So it just made me so mad sitting through those trainings. Like I just, I can’t like I can’t believe you guys made me sit through this, because you’re just lying. Like, I would just get so mad. And I was very angry about it and hurt. And that doesn’t happen anymore. And I think it’s because I’ve started to, I started to view my experience not as something, I don’t view it as something that happened to me anymore. So much as I view it as something that I can use to help other people just in the telling of it. And once I started viewing it that way, and it’s now a teaching tool, as horrible as it was. It’s a teaching tool now. And so it hurts me, it doesn’t hurt me at all, to share it. And then I just need some time to kind of like emotionally recharge.
Victoria Volk 51:42
What is one thing that you found most unhelpful to you, as you’re going through, as it as it really kind of came to a head in your life? Both of those experiences?
Ruthie Bowles 51:56
The thing that was definitely the most unhelpful was trying to figure out what I could have done differently. I’m a big believer in, you know, taking ownership and responsibility for things. And so, I was raised that way, but I was applying it wrong. I was trying to figure out how I could have changed what happened to me not including, in my analysis, that I had absolutely no control over their choices. I had no control over them, what they thought what they felt what they decided to do, I had no control over that. And I kept plaguing myself with that question. The same question that other people well, what were you wearing? And all these things, right? Like, what could you have done to keep yourself from being assaulted? Like, what could I have done? Especially the second time because it was like, I just I just let an F bomb go. I was about to drop one. But it was like, What the heck, like a second time Really? Like, what are you doing? What are you doing that it would happen to you a second time those types of questions were incredibly unhelpful, they did a lot of damage as well, because it just mentally turns and turns and turns? I had no control over them. And what they chose to do, I only had control over me. So as a result, like those experiences definitely influenced choices I made after, right. But those are the only things that I could control. And then you know, I had to be a little careful of going too far to the left in terms of reacting too far left or right in terms of reacting as a result of that. And that was you know, that was another struggle that I had as I grew older and was able to view those experiences in a different light.
Victoria Volk 53:50
And help that shame fade away with more empowerment, right?
Ruthie Bowles 53:55
Yes, yes.
Victoria Volk 53:56
What is one tip that you would give someone listening today who has been sexually assaulted in military or otherwise?
Ruthie Bowles 54:05
So, I know that it’s not necessarily for everybody in terms of the way that I’ve shared my story. But I did not start out sharing my story in interviews and things like that. I started out, sharing just the one sentence with a friend, my best friend who was with me the day that I went and saw that movie. And I told her, I was like, you know, that person? She’s like, yeah, so he raped me. And that was all I shared. At first, it was just the one sentence of course, the other thing that you can control in that instance, is that you want to be careful about who you share it with. Because what you want is somebody who is open to listen and receive your story and not somebody who’s immediately going to interview and quiz you. Like I think after I shared it with you the first time, we just had a cup of tea you know, because that’s just the way We were, but they’re even like I said, like it’s not it’s not about getting on and interviews and things like that like that is the way that I’ve chosen to use my story. But if you can share it with somebody and receive maybe some of the compassion that you haven’t been able to extend to yourself. That was something that helped me a lot initially, because I felt like I was able to tell somebody, and unlike the army, and unlike that guy’s friends and stuff, that was somebody who completely validated what I had experienced. And I felt safe and comfortable. And that like being able to do that is probably a huge reason why I’m able to be vulnerable at all, versus, you know, completely shutting down and not being able to even have healthy relationships.
Victoria Volk 55:54
Grief recovery, we call those special people in our lives a heart with ears.
Ruthie Bowles 55:58
Oh, that’s amazing.
Victoria Volk 55:59
Yeah, someone who won’t criticize, analyze, or judge and can just sit with you. Yeah, I love that, that you said that you just had a cup of tea. I love that, that she was there for you, for you in that time. So, ways that others supported you that you found most helpful. You just kind of mentioned, you know, your friend that just sat with you. What are other things that you can think of to share that might be helpful? You know, I? How about your husband, your husband supported you and your immediate family? How about that?
Ruthie Bowles 56:34
So, in terms of my husband, that is actually that was a close one. Because after the second time, the second assault, you know, I was home, and he asked me to marry him. We were just dating at the time. And he asked me to marry him. And I said, yes. But that second time was so new, and there was a lot just kind of shrouded in mystery. And I hadn’t told him because I was afraid. Because being in the culture, I felt like it was very easy for him to either see it my way, or be like, no, you cheated on me. Like there’s alcohol involved and whatever. And he demonstrated the power that somebody else could have if they have enough knowledge to help you. Because we, we almost broke up. Like after he asked me to marry him. We almost broke up because of the way that I was behaving and stuff. He was positive. He was like, you’re not, you’re not on board with this the way that I’m on board with this. Something’s going on. There’s something you’re not telling me. And I’m like, no, of course, I’m lying. Like, no, you There’s nothing I’m keeping from you. It’s fine. And he’s like, why are you acting like this? And I’m like, it’s fine. That was not fine. And I think he was probably like, a hair’s breadth away from being like, look, we’re not, we’re not getting married. We’re not together, like, I don’t know what you’re doing. But I can’t do this anymore. And we were in a hotel room, because we were in Virginia visiting with my grandparents, we were sitting in bed, he had gone through my phone and found something I can’t remember. And he’s like, what is going on? And I sat there, and I just knew I was like, if I say that nothing’s happening, and everything’s fine. One more time, he’s gonna leave am I okay with him leaving. And I just I was not okay with that. And so, I just I it was a short synopsis. Very short, just told him you know, the day that we got back from Afghanistan, one of the soldiers in the barracks he came into my room after I’d had a couple of wine coolers that I weigh overestimated my tolerance for being just freshly back from Afghanistan and he raped me and then I got up without another word and went into the shower because my skin was crawling and I came out and he was still just sitting on the bed looking devastated and then we just laid there for a while. And it was it was still hard after that right because I still had a lot of things you know to work through. And I mean, he’s four years older than me so I mean I was young and he was a little bit older but not that much older and I don’t think it really matters what age you are when somebody tells you something like that it’s still very shocking, but we were able to move on after that, you know, and he knew like what I didn’t like I didn’t give them the nitty gritty details or anything at that time because I wasn’t capable of sharing that yet but over time, I was able to just you know, kind of reveal everything and share it with him and and just explain everything that happened you know, he you know, because one of the things that happened was I got new friends, right as soon as we got back and we were long distance, he’s like, Who are these people? You know, and they were people I felt safe with this what it was and so that was part of it. And so yeah, so it’s just it was he was incredibly supportive and and you know, in terms of like our relationship he got really good at looking for when I was hiding my wants and needs. And he would push me and be like, no, come on, what do you really want here? Like what what he’s really like I can tell there’s something bothering you just go ahead and tell me like don’t he’s like I’ll if you want to leave it alone for right now we can leave it alone, and we’ll talk about it later. But we do you need to talk about it, you know, so you got good at seeing when I was hiding, because I got good at that. And that was just really important for our relationship and for our family. Because the depth of our relationship now is completely different and just deeper than it was, you know, in the beginning. And I think that that is something that I needed, right? Like I have one person in the whole world that I can be that deep with. And I could be that vulnerable with to share every detail and everything. And that was something that I needed, that I think unconsciously, I didn’t even realize it but I thought that I was never going to be able to have.
Victoria Volk 1:01:02
So, my question to now is when you weren’t talking about it? What were some of the characteristics? So let’s say you’re in a friendship, let’s say I have a friend or my friend group or whatever. And what are some characteristics of someone who has been assaulted? Like what are some characteristics that you would think someone would exhibit who has been sexually assaulted that someone like, you know, if you’re not feeling like talking about it, sometimes you just want someone to ask you what’s wrong, or you know what’s going on or?
Ruthie Bowles 1:01:36
So, some people think, like, so one of the big ones, especially when I after the first one, and I was so much younger, you know, it’s 1920 ish 1819 was when it happened. And so, it rippled through my early 20s. And I arguably the second one happened still in my early 20s. So just was not a very good late teens, early 20s. For me, so a lot of people think that if you are sexually assaulted, then you would not want to have sex at all anymore. Right? And that is actually not necessarily true for everyone. For myself, at least after that happened, and there was probably like a refractory period where I was just like, this is all overwhelming. I don’t want to, like everybody get away from me. Once I got to the new duty station. I, I was at that duty station for like six months. And I think I must have had like, I mean, for me, it was a lot. But it was probably like, five guys that I dated in sequential order, not concurrently, but like I dated. And because we were dating, like, as soon as they were like, yeah, you want to go to Home Base. It was I was in that position where I was like, well, if I say yes, then they can’t take it. So, I said Yes, right. I think that was something my roommate picked up on was kind of like, hey, not judging Exactly. But your patterns of behavior are a bit different than they used to be, like, the whole time I was at the language school, which was like a year, I was with my boyfriend long distance, and then that one guy, and then we get to a new base, and I’m running through them, like water. So, it’s very serious change in behavior. And the reason why, like I said was if I if I’m not saying no, then you can’t take it. And then it also kind of having them as like, you know, dating them. And then you know, being boyfriends or whatever, it kind of helped protect me in terms of I could always say, well, I have a boyfriend, I have a boyfriend, instead of saying, actually I just don’t like you, and then having somebody get offended and then you know, attack me or something later changes in behavior, probably a pretty big one. And then to be honest gaslighting, like, if you’re sensing that there’s a change in behavior, or a change in attitude or something with somebody, and they’re insisting that you’re crazy for it. There’s probably something going on, because I was good at that, too. I mean, I had a very horrible, good teacher. But you know, people would be like, Oh, you’re acting really different. Are you okay? And I’m like, I’m fine. You’ve been acting different though. You just completely turn it around, like, or maybe not even gaslighting, but you bring up them and then they ask you about something about you like maybe last week you were complaining about your boyfriend or your girlfriend, and then you ask about them. And they’re like, no, yeah, I’m totally fine. But what was going on with, you know, you and Stacey or you know, you and john, like what happened? And then now all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, yeah, that happened. And you’re completely distracted now. So they become really good at misdirection. And so, if you are worried about somebody, you’re going to have to be gentle, but focused, you’re gonna have to be gentle, but focus, and you’re also going to have to realize that it may take you more than one try, because that’s the other thing like are you just just testing me? Like, are you just trying or like, are you in it to win it? Are you actually in this with me? Are you ready to hear what it is? That I could tell you if I choose to? Now if you’re just like, oh, are you okay? And then you believe me when I say that I’m fine. Okay, well, you obviously weren’t ready to hear it. But I mean, in a way, that’s kind of what happened with my husband when we were engaged, right? Like he kept insisting something was wrong. And I was like, No, you’re not ready for this, you’re not ready for this. And so I just kept insisting, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and then it just reached a point where I was not okay with him walking away, because he had tried so many times. And that, you know, it was just that I was afraid of telling him. So, it got to a point where I was positive, he was gonna walk away. Either he was gonna walk away, because I didn’t tell him, or he was gonna walk away, because he didn’t believe man. In such case, I probably shouldn’t be with him, or he was going to hear what I had to say. And he was going to believe me. So, in those three scenarios, two of them, he was walking away anyway. So at that point, I’d reached a point where I just felt like I didn’t really have much left to lose in terms of him and that our relationship, but that’s, that’s the big thing, you want to be gentle, but you want to be focused, because your first attempts at trying to get them to confide in you will probably fail, they will probably fail unless you catch them at just the right moment. But if they’ve had time to kind of fortify and that shame to kind of, you know, weave into their barriers and things, it’s probably going to take you more than one one try. And it’s not a reflection on how much they like you or love you or anything like that. But you are literally wrestling with this monster, and you just can’t do anything else. Like I don’t have, I don’t have the space to trust you right now. Because I am wrestling with this inside of me. And you know, you’re going to have to knock on this door more than once. Because I’m fighting so hard here. And I’m exhausted. And you know, the first few times that you try, I just can’t open that door, I can’t do it. Because how do I know you’re not going to come inside and transform into another monster that I have to deal with? I have to now then I have to wrestle with the assault and your rejection, you know, and you saying that it was my fault, or I could have worn something else or not gone out that late that I have to wrestle with both of those things. So that’s why I think sometimes it takes more than one try. Like you would think if you’ve never gone through anything traumatic like that, that’s so tied up in the shame as well. You would think Well, why don’t you just tell me you tell me everything. It’s like, well, I’ve never had anything like this to tell you before. So, you got to be gentle, you got to be focused, and you just got to be in it for the long haul. Because I’m telling you is definitely not like that might be one of the hardest things that you are able to do initially in terms of getting them to confide in you. But the battle, you know, isn’t over for that person.
Victoria Volk 1:07:49
That’s grief that never goes away. It just changes.
Ruthie Bowles 1:07:51
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:07:52
And so and and with Grievers, you know, just this is what we say to like, if you want to be a heart with ears, you just show your support. Let them know you’re there. And when they’re ready. You’ll know they’ll let you know, right?
Ruthie Bowles 1:08:11
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:08:12
Thank you so much, Ruthie, is there anything else that you would like to share today?
Ruthie Bowles 1:08:17
I just want to say thank you for, you know, building the platform that you’ve built. The topics that you touch on that you dive deep on here are not topics that people consider for everyday consumption. But but they are topics that some that somebody somewhere is going through every day, you know, and, you know, this is one piece of the story that I’ve shared. But we all go through a variety of different things. And this experience does not define my identity by any stretch of the imagination. But it does help so much to share. And I know that you’re helping a lot of people by addressing these topics that people are like, Oh, that’s not polite conversation, or that’s too heavy. It’s like okay, well this is something that we’re walking around with every day you are surrounded by people who have things that are too heavy every day. So just thank you so much for opening the floor for you know these types of conversations.
Victoria Volk 1:09:25
Thank you for sharing that with me, means a lot. Yeah, my why’s is pretty big for this podcast, so but it’s because of beautiful souls like you who are willing to share your story and I’m just being a heart with ears. and hoping that the messages that the hurting hearts share with others bring hope. There is hope there’s hope to have a beautiful life of a beautiful marriage, children, all the good things that life can give us right?
Ruthie Bowles 1:09:56
Absolutely.
Victoria Volk 1:09:57
Thank you so much again, Ruthie. If people want Want to reach out to you? Where can they find you?
Ruthie Bowles 1:10:01
Looking me up on social media is probably a good place to start Ruthie Bowles, in terms of what I do professionally, defythestatus quo.com if you’re in search of any personal branding and marketing information, but yeah, those are probably the best places to reach me. I am very easily found. A Google search will actually also help you find me very easily.
Victoria Volk 1:10:29
Awesome and I’ll put the information in the show notes as well. Thank you, listeners, for tuning into Ruthie story today. I hope it helps you or someone you love. Until next time, take care much love. And when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life.
