Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, LGBTQ+, Mental Health |
Nicky Scorpio | Curiosity Saved Me: An A.I. Child Growing Up in an LGBTQ Home
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Nicky Scorpio, singer, songwriter, producer, and host of Scorpio Rising Podcast shares his experience being a child of artificial insemination, whose biological father later died of AIDS, and who was raised in an LGBTQ home.
Through growing up in and around diversity all of his life, he gleaned many lessons. At age 12, he started to understand where he didn’t fit and became an angry child as a result.
Nicky recognized later in life, the important role curiosity played in his healing of childhood wounds. Through studying philosophy, meditation, seeking healers, shamans, and mentors, he slowly began to find his way back to himself.
Interestingly, he brings up something not often talked about in personal development. When a person begins to work on themselves and their healing, there are often consequences within relationships. People may say some hurtful things and resist the more evolved version of you.
As Nicky says in this episode, “Vulnerability is the key to set ourselves free.”
Resources:
Connect with Nicky:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Welcome, welcome! It’s another episode of grieving voices. Today my guest is Nicky Scorpio. Welcome, Nicky.
Nicky Scorpio 00:09
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk 00:11
I just got a little bit taste of what we’re going to talk about today. And it’s too good. I had to stop Nicky to record because it was getting too good. So, like right out of the gate. I just have a really great feeling about this episode. So, first Nicky, introduce yourself. First of all, too, like, who you are, where you’re from, and I know what brought you to grieving voices.
Nicky Scorpio 00:38
Ah, yeah, thanks again for for having me. Yes. So, for those who don’t know me, my name is Nicky Scorpio. I’m a singer, songwriter, producer, engineer. I do a lot of different things, really, in the world of wellness. That’s why I love what you’re doing. Thank you for doing what you’re doing. I think that I think that it’s important and I think it’s the one thing that connects all of us. I originally come from the Bay Area. I was raised in Berkeley, I have Berkeley, California, land of the hippie and conspiracy theory. I have been living in New York for on and off for about eight years and currently in the Detroit area right now with my girlfriend’s family. And yeah, what brings what brings me here is this is gonna be a little shout out to she’s all over the place podcast, Katie Janaki is Katie brought me here. You know, we we both very understand the importance of right now more than ever. Being able to give yourself permission to grieve, being able to say like, I’m going through something and not just having to put on a smiley face. I lived I lived in Los Angeles for about five or six years. And I’ve had the, you know, the privilege of being able to be around people from all different walks of life. I come from very, very humble beginnings. I was raised by a teacher and as you know, teachers don’t get treated like celebrities, unfortunately, it should be flipped over in my personal opinion. Yeah. So, you know, I’ve been able to hang out with 99% and the 1% and there’s a lot of misconceptions about people when people don’t understand people who come from different backgrounds. And what I’ve experienced is a lot of times people who don’t come from money who have unhealthy beliefs about money will look at somebody who does have money and they’ll judge them right and what people don’t realize is that person who has you know, financial freedom might not have people around them that they can trust and and they they might have been told like don’t show your emotion right so a lot of times this is a generalization but like a lot of times people who are really really good at money have a very difficult time at showing their emotions for whatever reason the story that we all carry and when I started realizing this and seeing this and seeing especially in entertainment how you you see so many talented people that that all of a sudden they get success and they have all of this money and then they have no one around them to say like hey like you know, how are you feeling? Or like it looks like you’re taking a lot of pills or It looks like you’re drinking or smoking all the time like are you okay you know you get these people that are also insecure that that don’t check in with with the person that’s supposed to be their friend and then it all kind of comes crashing down and so for me you know especially as a guy where guys are taught to bottle it all in and to hold it all in and that’s why seeing more people not only having anxiety and depression but you’re also seeing more people taking prescription pills and and doing a lot of different things and self medicating for me for me now more than ever I want to make I want to make this conversation human I want to make it cool and I want to make it acceptable and celebrated in society to say like hey, I’m not feeling okay okay, that’s cool well I have my friends I have my family I have my community and you know that’s that’s how it used no matter where you’re from in the world lastly no matter where you’re from in the world all of our ancestors that was how it was we all had elders we all had community and that needs to be cool again like that needs to be something that’s that’s accepted and again like celebrated to say like when someone’s not feeling okay like I know your mom or I know your dad or I know you like I grew up with you and like you know better than this. We got to check in with one another so yeah,
Victoria Volk 04:35
And isn’t it ironic that we have social media to do just that, and like the more connected we claim to be, the more disconnected we have become?
Nicky Scorpio 04:47
Ah, it’s really wild. There is a without without naming names, there’s a celebrity, actually, I saw this yesterday. That was doing a social post for a medication and people were getting on that person about that. And when I lived in Los Angeles, I had the opportunity to work with a social media agency, you know, people who take celebrities, from like a listers to whoever has the, you know, the means to pay for this service. Right? And it’s, it’s wild to me how people who aren’t in Hollywood people who aren’t in the entertainment industry, they do have this very, like, if I were in this world, if people acknowledged me if, if I had millions of followers that I’d be okay. And for me personally, like, I’ve been in that world, I know people who have 1000s 10s of 1000s hundreds and millions of followers and then the camera turns off, and they have no self identity, they don’t know where they’re going, they don’t know what they’re doing. The people around them are often and this is again, this is you know, generalizations, but toxic, just really, really superficial, really mean spirited and and then when I got out of this, and again, this is why I’m doing what I’m doing. Is that for people, like you and I, for people that that understand the importance of being vulnerable, and maybe, you know, like, I’m more introverted, people that are more extroverted and have the ability to interact with people and network and do all these different things. They crave crave authenticity, they crave people around them that that are real that will you know, call them out on their stuff and to say, like, you know, I don’t I’ve never been impressed by money I’ve never been impressed by fame for me it’s more of a means to like if you have a good intention that you can do something powerful, right? So I wish I wish that there were I wish that there was an education on social media because what I’ve been able to learn and how I’ve been able to heal myself and and how I’ve been able to completely transform my life in myself is through social media has been amazing at the same time. If I were 12 and I had social media, I was bullied. I don’t know what I would do so it’s you know, it’s a double-edged sword that needs to have a different dialogue for sure.
Victoria Volk 07:10
You hit the nail on the head is the education piece, right? Like how are we using this tool to be of service to the greater bigger picture and then to ourselves and into our four walls, like just the people who are with in our circles?
Nicky Scorpio 07:28
Yeah, no matter what, I’ll say like, no matter what you’re looking for, like if you’re curious about something like I know, I know, people that are that we’re looking to get into veganism, I’m I eat mindfully, I’ve tried a lot of different things. I consider myself a seeker. If you’re curious about something, you can type in the hashtag, you can find ingredients, you can find recipes, you can find a whole community and then your whole algorithm changes up and starts giving you more stuff. So every day, instead of me going on to social media and being like, gee, look at Billy Billy’s traveling and has 100,000 followers. My life is terrible. I get to wake up with like, sound bowls, and I get to wake up with like, Look at this beautiful place in Iceland or like, you know, things from someone like yourself, where I’m getting knowledge, I’m getting insight and I’m starting off my day, like, oh, cool, like, I’m good enough. So yeah, it’s it’s choices, options, you know?
Victoria Volk 08:19
Well, there’s the education right there. Boom, Mic drop. Clean up our feeds, right? clean up our feeds. Think about what you need to grow to evolve to feel good.
Nicky Scorpio 08:31
Yeah
Victoria Volk 08:32
It’s about feeling good, right?
Nicky Scorpio 08:34
Yeah. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 08:35
You had mentioned briefly documentary called Happy? Can you share a little bit about that? Because that’s a good segue.
Nicky Scorpio 08:44
Yes, so there’s there’s a amazing documentary on Netflix that I watched a couple years ago and it’s called happy and they go and it’s basically it’s the psychology of happiness and they go around to all these different cultures they look at the United States they look at places all around the world and they say like what makes us happy and one of the happiest places in the world is in a very remote village in India and they have very basic basic means of living right like they kind of like as people know who who know what’s going on outside of the world like India like they’re still looking to have like clean drinking water all the time like there’s a lot that that could be that could be better that’s actually thankfully being fixed and helped because of technology However, they don’t really have a lot they are not influencers yet what they do have is they have community they have people around them where like they’re happy because every day no matter what you’re feeling, if you’re feeling if you’re feeling sad, if you’re feeling down, hang out with people that are dancing, hang out with people that sing all the time hang out with people no matter what your religion is that have faith and try to be down you can’t like the smile kind of like forces in a healthy way like forces itself up and and that’s the power of community right? Like when when I grew up I had my immediate family was was small and kind of like split up when I was younger however Thanksgiving I had, like amazing men and women in my family that were the greatest storytellers and I used to just hang out with them and half the time I didn’t even know what they were saying. But it was it was so like I was just always an odd just listening to how they would talk and being around for someone who grew up without a father being around these you know, men that were charismatic, that were good people that were faithful that were monogamous that that, you know, we’re very international and very well rounded had a strong character shaped me into into wanting to have that because I saw the power of that and and it’s interesting and I recommend everybody to check it out. It’s called Happy the documentary is called happy. It’s it’s interesting because we as Americans have this idea that when we get the next one, we accomplish the next goal when we get that raise, when when we get on our page, when we get like the blue checkmark, you know, when when we get whatever it is that house that all of a sudden, that we’re gonna be better and what from what I’ve learned, if you’re not mentally, like if your perspective isn’t, isn’t healthy, like if and if you don’t have people around you that are checking in with you. And again, I have people that call me out like I don’t need a bunch of people that are just being fans and saying everything you’re doing is great, because I’m human. But when when you have that aspect in your life, you get you get freedom and you understand that no matter what you have, you know higher low that you have optimism that you can be happy with anything because if you can be happy with nothing, then you can be happy with everything you know, so it’s big.
Victoria Volk 12:00
That’s very good. Not all of that. So, tell me then, how did you get to hear I mean, you mentioned the support system and the role models that you had but obviously you’re not really going to, you’re not going to dig into that until you’re probably an adult or you’re a little bit older and reflect on that but what was growing up without your father like for you?
Nicky Scorpio 12:28
I have a very, I have a very very diverse like I grew up in such a diverse household and community that for me like I have a very broad perspective so I grew up in kind of like a rough part of Berkeley and like literally right by the train tracks and you know, we were pretty much like the only white family and it was interesting because and on one side of things like I was raised to know my culture like I’m from my again like my mom’s a teacher and so I was always raised to know where I come from you know, I grew up eating all different types of food, Indian foods, making food, American food, etc etc Mexican and so I always understood different cultures and where it gets even more diverse is I was raised in an LGBTQ plus family before it was cool to label it and so on one aspect I you know, we were kind of like we fit into the neighborhood but at the same time like we didn’t if that makes sense um and when when I was about nine everything in my life just completely and totally flipped so right around New Year’s Eve my other mom left our house and and said you know that she didn’t want to be a part of this that this was my mom wanted children my mom wanted children My father was a very very close friend to my mom and you know, I’m an artificial insemination. So he he was in my life but he wasn’t in my life but I did have a two person household and my my other mom left and kind of around the same time my my father died of of AIDS. And while all of this happened we also had to find a new place to live because my other mom at that time was with somebody who didn’t really care that we had a place to live it was it was very it was very manipulative. It was very toxic It was very difficult. We’ve worked through it I speak to her now like I love her and I’ve forgiven and and then on top of that, right around the same time like my grandfather passed away and and I went from being I was like the Bart Simpson of my school. Like everybody knew me, everybody Love little Nikki and you know life was good and life is fun even in all the chaos it was always like Be yourself be colorful be brightened kids are so resilient, right. And I was so resilient. And then we had to move to my mom wanted to get out of the neighborhood that we were in because it was it was getting pretty bad. And there was some, there was some like, pretty, pretty intense, which we could talk about another time pretty intense. Racial based violence that I I experienced with my, with my mom being being attacked, and my mom the next day by the people who attacked her was taken care of, of their kids, because that’s what my mom, my mom did. My mom was a teacher, before she was a teacher, she took care of the we did like low income daycare, right? And so I grew up with kids from all different backgrounds, Special Ed, everything. And, um, what was interesting is, I didn’t process all of this, so I was still being the class clown, and I was still kind of goofing off and stuff. And yeah, it was difficult moving, but then right around 12 everything kind of started to hit me. And what’s interesting is there’s people that are angry, and there’s people that are not aware that they’re angry, and I wasn’t aware of how angry I was. And, you know, when I was a teenager, my mom, my mom had to do a lot of work to get me to really even because I was so I was so frustrated because it’s like as a teenager you’re comparing you’re looking at other people’s lives, you’re when they have like the like, bring your parents to work day, you know, bring your dad you know, blah, blah, blah, these kinds of things. And you start to you learn when you’re a kid you learn where you are, if you’re wealthy, if you’re rich as a kid, you know that you’re rich, and if you’re not, you definitely know that you’re not and I knew that I wasn’t because we were living in like a bootleg version of like Beverly Hills 9021 No, and it was a small town in the Bay Area, and everybody knew everything about me so I got bullied over and over and over again in many many different ways from like, your mom’s a lesbian, but they didn’t say it that way. It wasn’t friendly, it wasn’t cool, you know, to people just calling our house and just saying terrible things about me and about my family, um, a lot of different stuff. And I was I was really, you know, again, I went from the top of the totem pole and I got knocked all the way down. And I was an outsider who was like, to this way for these people and to this way for for those people. So you know, as I continue to grow older, I I realized that I was making unhealthy decisions and I basically I hit rock bottom. And it was from hitting that rock bottom, which I feel like a lot of us go through and if and if we if we don’t realize that we’re going through that rock bottom it can be detrimental. However, I knew that I was going through a very difficult time and from there, I again I don’t judge people don’t believe in God, I don’t care if you believe in whatever you believe in right from me from me, like I connected with God. And, and was just like, I, I surrender, I put my life in your hands. And I started going on this journey. And I started studying different philosophies and I and I started looking for kind of like more Eastern stuff and I got into meditation. I then met my my lovely girlfriend, my lovely partner. And, you know, she introduced me to shaman into healers into different ceremonies. And I just started cracking my code and realized from doing all of this work that people say that everything happens for a reason, but it sounds corny and it sounds cheesy, but what I what I learned and kind of like the and we can keep on going but like that the edited version of this what I what I learned is that a lot of times we look at what we’re going through as like the ultimatum like the final chapter and what we don’t realize is that it’s it’s a page in a book right? Like if we’re going to give that analogy it’s a page in a book and and it’s not the end of the chapter excuse me there’s plenty of different chapters and and if we can just go through this and have that faith and have that optimism of like this thing that I’m going through is going to lead to my greatness like now I’m at the place because I was able to say like I’m not okay or I was able to say like oh I’m angry from this or you know, when when when when your home splits up, then you get abandonment issues. And I had to learn about abandonment issues, and I had to learn about like, why I’m making these kinds of choices and why why am I Why am I feeling angry when I’m seeing other people Like you talked about social media, why am I getting jealous? Or why am I getting angry? When I see somebody else who’s genuinely happy, there’s something, there’s something that’s kind of off about that. And I started checking in more of my feelings. And then what I got to was we went to lightning in a bottle Music Festival. And you’re hearing me talk about this now, but I put up a huge wall, before I had huge trust issues. And there was this amazing poet, and His name’s Prince EA, and he’s so good. He’s so so intelligent. He’s such a genius with his words. And I wish poetry was more mainstream. But for the first time, I really wanted to get up on the microphone, you know, when after people speak and say like, I like I want to just give props or have a question or something, I’m normally not that guy, but I wanted to, and I was able to have a conversation in that moment, because the woman before me was native and she was upset because someone was, who wasn’t native was wearing a headdress and, and their friends were putting her down and talking about her. And she was angry about this, rightfully so. And, and basically, there was this huge tension because like, the people were upset or were offended or thinking she doesn’t understand and people that were more connected with her were frustrated, because they relate to it. And, and I had this this conversation, you know, with with Prince EA, where I said, I kind of give like a brief very, very, like 32nd version of my life where I said, like, this is how I was born. This is where I come from, like, this is how my family is. And I’ve seen my mom struggle as as an educator, as a teacher, and she’s an angel, my mom, when I was in high school worked five jobs a week, just so we could live in a better neighborhood, right? And I want to know how we as men, Can Can you know, uplift the women around us and how we can be better as men and I said it in a more eloquent way, but it was this moment where because I shared this everyone everyone stopped and the anger dissipated, it like shattered the that wall and the women that were like hard because I was raised by feminists, so I get it hardcore. And and the women that were hardcore feminists turned around and people turned around and the co founder of lightning in a bottle was there and she turned around and pointed at me and I and I had this moment where I learned where I was like, vulnerability is the key that sets us free we have to share we have to all tell our stories, my story isn’t better than your story isn’t better than anyone else’s story. But it’s the story and through the stories through this wisdom through this perspective, we get to broaden our perspectives and we get to understand one another and and and especially again in the male community, I learned because I was raised by women so like I don’t necessarily connect with that like macho energy a lot of times like it’s there’s there’s a lot of preconceived notions towards people like myself and I was able to get this of like, vulnerability which we’re taught, be optimistic be happy all the time be outgoing, be upbeat all the time just be on all the time that’s how our society is but it’s really this vulnerability that connects us and that’s really to answer your that’s the kind of long version to answer your question that’s how I got to where I’m at is I learned through all of these experiences and again through all this education and through my mentors through my peers through people around me that shared like this is a shaman like you can do a ceremony you can meditate you can do Vipassana you can do a 10 day silent meditation where you don’t say a word at all and you check in with your feelings you can read these books there’s been a million people before you that have experienced the same things and you know 1/8 of those people have written or I’ve done something to share to teach and and when I got from that was we need to enjoy the chapters that we’re reading in our life not think that it’s the last chapter but also not only to have that faith but to say you know what, if I’m if I’m not feeling okay, I’m not feeling okay and and if I can be okay with that, that can open up doors and then I get more authentic people around me I get people that are okay with me being that way and then I get celebrated and when I’m feeling sad and when I’m feeling angry, and when I’m in an aisle, everything in between and I have people who say that I’m good enough and that I matter which sounds silly but it’s it’s something that we all need that and want and crave that validation. I can move mountains and I can make magic happen. So, I mean that’s I mean, that’s really it and it’s been for me, it’s still a journey and it’s ongoing, but now at least in the craziest of times, like I get freedom and I get peace.
Victoria Volk 24:59
You mentioned you had hit rock bottom. When was that for you?
Nicky Scorpio 25:04
That was right after I graduated from high school, and again, that was my, my mom pointed out that she started showing me kind of like, it was a very simple conversation she was like this is this is normal when when people excuse me, when people see danger, when people see chaos, they go away from it, they cross the street. Whereas what, from what I learned, this wasn’t my mom, this was from me learning that when, as a young man, when you when you grow up without a father, you are more likely to get in trouble, you’re more likely to be incarcerated, you’re more likely to find yourself in poverty, you’re more likely to, you know, not do well in school, and I had everything on the check mark. And, you know, it was really, in that point, from from experiencing all of that, when I, I by the grace of God, like I got my freedom. And my mom was pointing out to me showing me like, you know, this is how you’re communicating. And these are the people that you’re choosing to be around. And this is the life that you’re choosing. And even though like you grew up this way that there’s more for you. And I actually, I went on kind of like a cool journey where I packed these bag lunches with my mom and we went around Oakland, and basically, I had lunch with 10 homeless people. And I had conversations with them and was just asking them like you just talking with them just like gaining wisdom from them. And really, it was through this process where I started, I started realizing that I had lost my way. And when I was younger, like I said at the beginning of the story when I was younger, I was around everything, and I was aware of it to a certain degree, but I was so resilient. Like you know, when you’re a kid when when kids play like, oh, there’s hot lava on the floor, they see in their mind, like they see hot lava and that’s it like they can create anything from their imagination. And, and again, like everyone, everyone loved me when I was younger and my head was very big, my skin was very pasty. I dressed like I was like fresh out of like a Crayola colored box. But I didn’t care. I just I loved myself. And and then when life hit me, I went from being Nikki to Nick to serious and Nick was very serious and Nick put up a wall because Nick was getting judged and and Nick had to internalize all of this stuff and hold this all in because again, I was getting bullied, I gained, I gained and I lost thankfully but like I gained 90 pounds, just eating junk food because a girl told me who was older than me, she said you’re gonna die alone and skinny. And, and I was young, and I believed her. And so I deliberately started gaining weight and doing things and that’s all I’m saying is it in so many different ways. Because I was insecure that I believed these things. And that’s again, like that’s another reason why I’m doing what I’m doing because there are so many people that have golden hearts, and they get beat down and they are insecure and if those people if those kids that those boys and girls were told that you’re good enough and and we’re given kind of like a guideline to celebrate who they were that this world would be completely transformed, but it was really it was really you know from me just unlearning a lot of different stuff where I started to discover wow like I’ve always been this people pleaser like I’ve always told people that I’m okay and I’ve always kind of like been the free therapist for so many people and when I really started transforming when I really started changing 90% of the people around me changed people said that I was better than them that I thought that I was you know like too good for them and and just people like like making fun of me for for wanting to like learn and heal myself and it was a very difficult transition but it was for me it was like a necessity where I’m like I don’t feel happy like I don’t feel good with what I have and I’ve had successes I’ve been up and I’ve been down and you know and and i still even when I was doing well like I wasn’t feeling good about myself and it was really this need of like I know that there are people that feel happy I know that there are people that no matter what they have that they feel good and I just I went on this journey and I unlearned all of this stuff and I realized where the root of everything came from I just constantly was like no like this. This is frustrating but that’s not it. It’s deeper than that. No, it’s it’s deeper than that. It has nothing no it doesn’t matter if okay, like I have money now I’m still not happy. It has nothing to do with that. And then I cracked my code and and then from there was like, Alright cool like, life is gonna keep on hitting me it does it’s not that all of a sudden like I’ve reached Nirvana and everything’s perfect is more so of, I have tools, right like I can I can like earlier like you took a deep breath like you can you can do Wim Hof breathing, you can just breathe, like you can take three deep breaths before you go into a meeting, and it will slow down your mind. You can, you can listen, you can listen to what people say, you can listen to what their truths are, when you’re around people, you know, or are they if you’re in sales, if people are saying, Man, it’s a slow day today. Do you acknowledge that like, do you? Do you not agree with them? Or? Or do you just let them vent and just express their stuff? Because it has nothing to do with you? Do you? when people put you down? When they say terrible things about you? Do you believe that? Or do you know who you are? You know, it’s it’s things like that. And so even though it was rough, and it sounds like like, like I’m not I’m not a master, I’m not a guru. I’m not an expert in any way, shape, or form. But because I went through all of these very traumatic and difficult experiences, I was able to understand. Everyone is going through this, where people say we have to stop the bullying, no one’s saying how is the bully feeling? Because the bully is getting bullied bully is going through terrible things. And the bully is actually the hero, because the bully is the only one who’s saying, I’m not okay, I’m not okay, I’m not okay. Right. And, and so and so that’s what it is, is just being able to slow down and to observe, instead of just reacting and just living in this world of like, I’m going to, I’m upset. So, I’m going to post a photo online, or I’m going to, like, do something, no, like, stop and cry, or yell or breathe or do something so that you can actually, like, enjoy your life. And so, you can actually be in a more centered place, you know, and keep people around you, keep good people around you.
Victoria Volk 32:07
Yeah, I resonate with so much of what you said. Just recently, I was having a conversation with someone, and I use the line like we do in grief recovery work, you don’t hurt people, who hurt people.
Nicky Scorpio 32:19
Yes. Wish everyone knew, I wish there was an app that could just go up when somebody says something or does something.
Victoria Volk 32:25
Yeah, like a reminder. Like, hey, that wasn’t nice, are you hurting? Like what happened to you? You know, and that’s the thing too, like doctors, if you go in, you’re not feeling good about, you know, you’re down or whatever. What happened to you know, you’re never asked what happened to you, you know, the heart, the energy of the heart permeates like six feet outside of our bodies, like our energy.
Nicky Scorpio 32:49
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 32:50
And we can choose what energy that’s going to be. Now I’m not saying don’t feel what you’re going through, don’t I am a huge proponent. You got to sit with it to heal it right? You got to feel it to heal it. But like you said, it’s like, there has to come a time where you just get sick of your own crap, or you get sick of your own. You’re sick of where you’re at in life. Is there a defining moment for you? That is like that that you can pinpoint?
Nicky Scorpio 33:25
There there I forget; I don’t even know who said this. I heard it. And it was on audio. And it was basically like the simple version of it was instead of instead of being angry, be curious, what really led me to having peace and to having freedom is having that curiosity of like, why am I feeling this way? Why when this person says this to me? Why do I feel this way? And why when this other person says this to me like this? I’m okay with this, like, why can’t I feel? Okay? Not necessarily happy? But like, why can’t I just be secure with who I am. And that was a huge one for me. And then I learned about projecting where you talked about how hurt people hurt people. So, life is a life is a movie life is a show and people all have their different shows that are all going on at once. So, when somebody comes from a household where they’re taught, like, don’t express your feelings, bottle it inside, let people see that you’re beautiful, let people see that you’re polished, that person is going to grow up and have anger issues. And when you don’t live within their means of what beauty is or what success is. They are going to project their anger that they haven’t processed on to you. These these were two things that for me, I was like, oh, so everyone who because like I’m not a saint, I might be named after one but I’m not I’m a human being just like everyone else. And you know, like, when I can understand like, I can make mistakes like I I am imperfect and that’s okay, right? But when you’re around people that are perfectionist, and they don’t know how to express and communicate in a healthy way that you can do better. If you take that personally, it’s just going to reinforce this, this victim thing. However, again, I learned because I’m hanging out with people that that are traveling that have millions of dollars that have everything that I’ve ever wanted. And you get one person who has deep seated anger issues, they’re very, very toxic in their conversation behind the scenes, right? But then when they get around other people, they’re all smiles, and everything’s all good. And then I get around someone else who has everything. And they’re an angel, and they give and they’re generous in their kind, and they’re so and I learned no matter what, rich, poor, black, white, everything, all the different titles that connect us and divide us. There are people that get the word human. And there are people that that haven’t processed their emotions, and they’re projecting this anger and this insecurity onto them. So, for me, instead of taking it personally, I started to get curious and started to say, like, wow, that person, if that person spoke to me that way, imagine how they’re speaking to themselves. And for me, again, like that gave me freedom that gave me peace and an understanding. And now I have compassion. Instead of being like, oh, look at this person, let’s cancel them, like, no, let’s have a conversation. Let’s get to know them, you know?
Victoria Volk 36:27
I say this on every episode, but I just got full body chills. Because you speak my language, you’re speaking my language. I was very angry. I, you know, my father passed away when I was eight, I watched him slowly decline over two years. And it absolutely wreaked havoc on my relationship, in my household with others, and I grew up very angry. It’s that trauma, that grief is cumulative, it’s cumulatively negative. And so, all these things that stacked up for you, all my experiences that stacked up for me, anybody listening, your experiences, they accuse me accumulate, and they accumulate this gunk within us. And if we don’t sweep our doorstep, right, we don’t clean our doorstep, we’re, we’re spreading that to everyone around us. And that’s why I’m so passionate about the grief recovery work. It’s sweeping your own doorstep; it’s taking 1% responsibility for your life. Just 1% Just 1% it’s like you’re not taking you know, if you can do that, it gives you hope that you can forgive yourself. Give yourself compassion. And like you said I think when you go through so many different traumatic and grief experiences throughout your life, and you finally wake up to this potential that you didn’t even know you had within yourself. Yeah. And you feel hope there’s no stopping you. You don’t have to be in that place forever.
Nicky Scorpio 38:13
Yeah, there’s if you’re familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V, I think you’re talking about education online that’s that’s a person who really also was like my cup of coffee like my emotional cup of coffee starting today because one of what I like about his energy is he’s very raw. And it’s very much like you just got to get over what you’re going through like sometimes we have a friend who does that for us where like you you get out of a relationship and you’re sad and your curtains are drawn down and you like haven’t shaved or showered or whatever the case may be and then a friend comes in and says like hey dude like you got to get up like you got to go for it and and the world needs more people like that we need that kind of like you got to get over it like no one it’s it’s rough to hear but it’s like I’ve never seen the Devil Wears Prada and recently I watched it you know with with Katie and and there’s a scene where he’s basically one of the characters is saying like, you want for somebody to pat you on the head and say for a baby. And that’s the thing is that when when you have abandonment issues, abandonment issues are wild because I don’t know if it’ll ever stop but again, at least I know that it’s there. But when you have abandonment issues, the layers and layers of how it affects your career of how it affects your personal life out affects your relationship the relationships that you choose the people that you choose to be around and and when you can can understand like, it might be a little bit harsh, but when you can just say nobody is going to pick me up nobody is going to say like oh poor baby, it’s okay. Because I’m not a little child anymore. I have the spirit of a child I have the energy of a child and I’m never going to give that up. You know, because that’s that’s a gift. When when you can understand that you need to pick yourself up and You need to just say you know what everybody is every This was my thing was it like everybody is going through something everybody has has had like a difficult story. And some people are just going and going and going, and I want to be that way. So you know what I’ve been beat up enough in life and but more so I beat myself up enough I created a story out of all of the stuff that I went through, I could have told a completely different story, I could have interpreted everything in a completely different way and been a completely different person. And, and when I can just say, Alright, cool, like, I get it, I don’t need to be a victim, I don’t need to, you know, hang out with people that are victims, I understand that it’s difficult to navigate through this. But you know, I need to conserve my energy so that I can do greater things and not operate from a place of guilt or shame. Now, I’m now I’m good. And then I can actually do greater work and I can be a better person because like, I feel complete, and I feel good enough for myself. You know, instead of wanting that validation from our moms from our dads, you know, and looking back at the story and being like, Oh, if only I had no, Oh, you got what you got and and love it and enjoy it. Because like Tony Robbins said, if you’re going to hate your mom, if you’re going to be angry at your mom love her for what she gave to you Same thing for your dad, or whatever it is right? Like if you’re going to be angry at this person, you better thank them, because they gave you gifts of not being a victim of standing up and being a better human being, you know, so it’s it’s a double-edged sword perspective.
Victoria Volk 41:30
One thing I’ve always I’ve been pondering for a while since I, I’ve done the deep work with grief recovery on myself, is that, like, do we have to have like this, I think what I think a truth that I’ve discovered, and I don’t know if this is true for you, but a belief that I’ve come to feel is that we all have this loss, like we’ll have another loss, you know, because grief is cumulative. So there comes a point, like a rock bottom for grief, where you do get sick of your own crap, or you do like, I’m tired of feeling this way. And when you were talking about how you just really started to ask got curious, like that that’s exactly parallel to my experience. Like, I was like, why am I keep Why do I keep feeling this way? For me? It was in 2014? Like, why am I doing this? Why do Why do I get into this psychological loop? Every day? And I got curious. And when we get curious, we seek answers. Yeah. And when we seek answers, we’re looking, actively participating in our lives looking for something to help us give us that answer. 100% Yeah, that’s the key difference. And the thought I’ve been pondering, it’s like, well, geez, why couldn’t I have had Why couldn’t that have happened when I was like, 23 instead of like, I don’t know, 3637 38? You know, like, why did it have to take another 10 years? And that’s the thing I’ve been pondering, you know, what are your thoughts on that?
Nicky Scorpio 43:14
I feel like, if you look at different places in the world, because like, again, I’ve studied a lot of different religions and faiths and belief systems. And I was talking earlier about the past and it’s a 10-day silent meditation, and it’s more so in places like India, Bangladesh, and their Eastern philosophies, like I got curious about Buddhism, right. And one of the things that I like about Buddhism is it’s really more about like, detachment about observing, just observing. And I feel like again, like this is a cultural thing where you you for people who have traveled when you go to other parts of the world you will for the most part you will see that people are genuinely happier than than Americans and again, that’s a generalization and it’s because there there is a sense of culture right? Like you know, you know your significance you know where you come from, so you’re not constantly trying to like aim for some obtainable goal whatever. But that you also have like a deeper understanding and things that you and I are talking about are things that are kind of like common knowledge in these religions and in these practices and in these cultures. And you know, like even in like India, they talk about how life is the great illusion and and when and if I had grown up, knowing these things, my mom again my mom, very much educated me and told me a lot of different stories and I know a lot of different things. But as a society, that you know if if, if we, you know, again now is a great time if you have a kid is as difficult as it is now you can actually tap that time to to teach your kids if you have have kids, I don’t. But if you do, you can that you can teach them these kind of concepts of like, like what you were saying were hurt people hurt people, it’s a very simple conversation to understand that life is an illusion, you look at this person that you think this person has everything, you don’t know how they are, when when there’s not a filter on them. And when the life isn’t edited, you don’t know that person. And I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it, I’ve hung out with people, because I’ve been in a relationship, where I hang out with people who normally don’t hang out with people like myself, and I’m like, wow, I wish, I wish that there was some way to just show people this to say, like, you don’t have money, and you look at this person who cuts you off in traffic, you’re like, Oh, of course, they’re driving a Mercedes. Of course, someone like that would do that. If you had 30 seconds within their mind, like you would drop all of that ego, you know, and, and I just, the reason why it takes so long is is because we’re just simply not taught this, and I’m a big believer in education. You know, I’m a big believer in the power of education. And, and, for me, I got all of my education. While I wasn’t in school, I just was constantly curious again, and I feel like, for anyone listening, if you can just really be curious if you can really challenge yourself. When you’re having conversations with people just do like a one-week challenge, like a seven week, seven day challenge, or like a one month challenge, but start start small. And just listen to what people say around you when you’re having conversations with people. And and if you can just observe and not make them wrong, not make them right, not make them better, not not make them dumb, but just listen to them. And just be curious from there. That opens up doors, you know, but yeah, if we were if we were taught these concepts would be a different world, but we’re getting there. And because of amazing people like yourself, so
Victoria Volk 46:57
Thank you for that. Absolutely love, love, love that challenge, challenge accepted. You’ve said so many good things today, many, many good golden nuggets. Do you have one tip that you would give another hurting heart today?
Nicky Scorpio 47:22
Yeah, I would say because sometimes, sometimes we forget what other people are going through, or we forget that other people don’t have people around. Like people, people are curious, but then they don’t often have people around them. And it’s I feel like that’s something to really to remember is i would i would say I would say if if you’re if you’re grieving right now, if you’ve lost someone, I would say it’s okay to grieve, I would say. Like when I lost my grandmother, that was one of the most difficult things I was actually with my my grandmother the on the last day, and it was a really beautiful experience. And it was also really sad because I was so close with my grandmother, she had the full life she lived to be 96. And there was someone in my life that when we were at the service where they said your grandma wouldn’t want for you to suffer, you should do something to celebrate her. And I think I think that’s an important thing to remember that yes, it’s okay to feel sad, that’s a that’s a natural thing, you you you share this amazing experience with this person and now they’re no longer there. If you’ve lost someone, or if you have gotten out of a relationship, remember that at the origin of whatever relationship romantic or nonromantic, that there was always love. And that regardless of how that person is or isn’t or speaks to you or no longer does speak to you that they they don’t want for you to suffer. You know in in that it’s okay to feel sad and to feel angry. It’s also really important to find a way to release it, even if you’re just going online and finding like how can not just Google just go online and just Google how to release anger and go down a rabbit hole but don’t don’t internalize it. Because there are so many people in this world that that get these terrible illnesses and disease because they keep this inside, and they think no one’s gonna understand. And they have all of these pressures, and they have all these people around them that they have to take care of. And if you just need to press timeout, and if and if you just need to grieve and grieve, but please don’t don’t tell people that you’re okay if you’re not okay you know, tell people like one of the things I love about Katie is that when when she’s upset when when you know we’d go to the grocery store, if the grocery store like the clerk says how’s it going today that generic conversation that we get, you know, X amount of times per day, she’ll say I’m not okay. Or she’ll say like, I’m angry, but I’m gonna get past it or something. So, but but it’s not like a sugar coated thing. It’s not just like, I’m, I’m good. You know, like, if you’re not, Okay, tell people that you’re angry, tell people that you’re sad, because 90% of all of the things that are going on why people need more pills and more medication and more stimulation than ever, is because we’re taught, just keep it inside. And there is a powerful, powerful feeling about being okay with not being okay. about, you know, being able to share with people what you’re feeling. And especially in the male community that you know, guys really need to express it and let it out. So we can have less cancer and less sickness and less stress in this world. Everyone is going through something right now and it’s okay. If you’re upset, even if you have a job, even if your workplace and you’re not feeling okay, it is okay. Our culture is going to start slowly changing where this is accepted. It’s starting to get there. But just express it, please just don’t internalize it, because it’s exhausting. It is exhausting. And I give you permission, if you can’t give yourself permission to release it, and let it go. And if you if you have kids, and if you have people, if you have people that you have to take care of tell them and just express it, please don’t keep it inside. That’s it.
Victoria Volk 51:48
Amen, amen. It is, I think coming. It’s like, you know, I want to say normalize grief. And it’s normal and natural. And the whole premise of me starting this podcast is for Grievers to share their stories because everyone has a story and everyone’s story matters. But it’s I think also about normalizing emotional honesty. Yeah. Yeah, making that normal to be honest. Yeah, I because if like you said it takes a tremendous amount of energy to lie to people’s faces. Do you like to be lied to? I don’t.
Nicky Scorpio 52:35
That’s the golden rule is a hardest rule is to treat people how you want to be treated. Yeah, yeah. And and, and again, I I really wish especially in the entertainment industry in the entrepreneur field in the artist field. I wish I wish people who are not not the successful artists, but more so like the upcoming artists who so desperately seeks fortune and fame and success, whatever that may be, I wish that that there would be more of a focus on I’m going to be more of myself and less trying to climb this ladder, thinking that I’ll get success because I wish people who were independent artists and who are upcoming entrepreneurs and thought leaders could just take a look behind the curtain and trust me when I tell you that people are just as human as you and are just as insecure as you and you know, just just I know it sounds cliche but just be yourself just just if some if somebody says something that you don’t like be true to yourself if somebody is saying something that that’s unacceptable or that’s or that’s rude or that’s racist or or that’s ignorant. It doesn’t matter if that person says that they can help you it doesn’t matter if that person has like the golden egg or whatever that you’re looking for that you think like oh this person is going to help me so I can just accept everything that they do and that they say No, stay true to yourself because then you’ll get better people around you the management the team that I have, you know burn it down group is amazing. I found two people that get the importance of what we’re talking about in music. Do you know how the music industry is it’s it’s under the table it’s smile in your face and stab you behind the back there are people now that are in the entertainment industry that wants to see good people win that want to see you know, relationships be promoted, that wants to see healthy love, like and that was for me turning down offers from people that had everything and I could have had it all but I was like, No, I don’t care if I’m gonna be 90 years old, trying to start like a career. I’d rather be authentic. I’d rather be true to myself. And again, I just want to have good people around me because I’ve had beautiful people that are not, not the greatest people around me that I’m just like, this like, who am I? You lose yourself. So don’t lose yourself. Please don’t lose yourself. Please.
Victoria Volk 55:05
Bingo. Bingo, you lose yourself, you you live into this identity of your pain.
Nicky Scorpio 55:13
Yeah
Victoria Volk 55:14
Unprocessed pain, you live into that identity. It’s almost like, like I said, I’ve said this many times before, but grief puts a veil over your face.
Nicky Scorpio 55:24
Yeah
Victoria Volk 55:25
It’s a veil you where you may not realize it, you don’t you don’t probably even recognize that you’re grieving. But just like the things that you said, the behaviors that we resort to, to make ourselves feel better, ask yourself the better question, why do I have this need to feel affirmation from all these other people? Why do I have this need to have X amount of dollars in my bank account? Why do I have this? You know, it’s like all these external things that we’re chasing? Yeah, this external influence that we desire, when the only influence that really matters, is within ourselves, is that’s what’s permeating out. Whatever is going up, and you know, whatever’s going on up here. That’s what you’re living out. Like, in your mind. You can’t see me pointing at my head. But, you know, it’s that’s what’s you’re living outwardly.
Nicky Scorpio 56:16
What’s interesting is, is that people, people can see if I were walking down the street, and I want a bad mood, people would know that about me, right? People can see things within us that we don’t see within ourselves, we just wake up in the morning and like, like, I’m Nikki, I just wake up and I shave and i and i moisturize and I talk with God, I meditate I do what I do, I drink my coffee. And that’s just me, and I just keep on going. And sometimes I just don’t even question it. And then somebody talks to me and they say something to me and I just react because I don’t even think about it. But but again earlier, like when when you start to slow down and and really question because I was saying earlier, like listen to other people speak listen to how you speak with yourself, listen to how you like if you meet somebody, and and they aren’t in your bubble, if they don’t dress the way that you like, if they don’t say things with you, like, look at that. And step into that. But understand what I’m getting at is understand in the same way, when you look at other people and you judge people and you see things within people, the people that you’re looking for, if you’re unhappy with your life with the with the company that you have around, you understand this. If you’re single, if you’re looking for love, if you’re looking for a career change, the people that are looking for you are looking for your best self. And that doesn’t mean putting on a smile and being cheesy and being inauthentic. But it means that there’s work to be done. Because if you want to get that relationship where you have loyalty, you have monogamy and you have everything that you’ve ever wanted and or you want that business partner or whatever, right? Like you need to be present. And you need to do what it takes to be present. Because you don’t need to keep meeting new people. You don’t need to keep networking. You need to go within yourself so that you can be present so that when that person comes by you and they talk with you, you’re actually happy you’re actually content with who you are. So, then all of a sudden you get this opportunity. You’re like where did this come from, I’ve been doing this X amount of years or I’ve been doing this over and over again, nothing’s ever happened. It’s because there’s something that you’re not seeing within yourself. And for me, that was that was a huge thing. And when I started really realizing that happy and successful people were seeing that there was grief within me that I hadn’t processed when I started processing and all of a sudden now, I have great people in my life, you know, so I think that’s, I think that’s an important thing to be said.
Victoria Volk 58:59
And it takes time to peel back all the layers. It’s never you never fully arrive. You know, like you said at Nirvana or the perfect life it’s ongoing.
Nicky Scorpio 59:11
Hey, give yourself permission though you can at least you know it takes time and that’s cool.
Victoria Volk 59:15
Exactly, yeah. You sure you don’t want a job as a grief recovery specialist You’d be a wonderful candidate I think.
Nicky Scorpio 59:25
Thank you, I’m open I’m open to it. I actually what’s interesting is right, when when you know COVID hit and turn the world upside down, so to speak. Like I had this whole plan I had this whole strategy with with music and everything and then I actually stopped because no one’s performing, no one’s touring. And then I started asking myself, like, what am I What am I doing at the root like what what am I about and I started doing content and and really focusing on this discussion that we’re having And, you know, for me, I actually before music, I wanted to be a psychologist, but I just didn’t have the patience to go through so many years of college and, and it wasn’t my calling but however however, I have always been interested in that and I’ve always been interested in psychology and yeah, like I I definitely for me music is is an entertainment is like a stepping stone for a bigger issue, you know, in this in this realm in which we’re talking but yeah, I definitely I, I love sharing with people and I love hearing people’s perspectives and and I’m a seeker like yourself, so yeah, I’m definitely I’m definitely open to it from me, for me I, you know, being able to, to be seen by people isn’t to feed my ego, it’s there’s, there’s a real issue that’s going on. And, you know, again, you see this when when you travel and when you interact with different people, the more work that you do, the more you realize other people don’t have that and, and just being able to share like when I’ve talked with when I’ve talked with like teenagers or I’ve talked with like moms or and I people share with me like, there’s this weird thing that I have this beautiful gift that God gave me where people will tell me things that they don’t normally tell people. And it’s interesting when that happens, and then you can share like a healthier perspective. And it’s like, oh, I never thought about like I remember talking with a mom in Whole Foods. And she was saying something to me about somebody was like being verbally abusive to her and I said something along the lines of hurt people hurt people and it was like a light bulb went off. And I’m like, Oh, that’s right. People don’t understand this because look at the world that we’re living in. You know, so I Yeah, I definitely I’m open to that because I for me the money the money comes in the money goes in the money, or that no, no one I heard was the money comes in the money grows, which I like better. Um, there’s a bigger issue that that that’s going on, where people need to come together. And if you have information if you know something that can make people better it’s time to share it’s time to share, you know?
Victoria Volk 1:02:19
Hence, this podcast.
Nicky Scorpio 1:02:22
Yes.
Victoria Volk 1:02:23
Because people we learn from other people’s experiences to other people’s stories and through community.
Nicky Scorpio 1:02:30
Yeah, I wouldn’t be here without the amazing like shaman Derek, Harry Paul, you know, Katie Janaka she’s all over the place podcast. My friend Jeff Korea, he owns Starfire water, which is amazing, you know, all of these all of these great people, I wouldn’t you to the hashtags that I found on Instagram, you know, like, I would I would be right out there confused, angry and sad and feeling like the world’s gonna turn upside down and it’s over. Thankfully, like, I have always been curious. And one other thing that I wanted to talk about really briefly is I feel like, one of the things that really has has given me peace, and I feel like it’s starting to happen more now. Is and we briefly talked about this at the beginning is that we need to accept that people believe differently than us, we need to be okay with that and celebrate that this canceled culture. ideology needs to stop, we need to stop trying to cancel people because they’re ignorant to our ways into our, our knowledge in the same way. When we make mistakes, if we have a job, or if we have a relationship we want for our partner or for our boss or for whoever to forgive us and understand the word Great. Well, it’s not a one-sided thing. It’s both ways that we need to understand. Not everyone thinks the way that I do not everyone believes in the same God or the same deity or the same thing not and that’s okay. Like, I’m okay with that. You know, and I hope I hope that people can, can understand that you’re going to meet people along the way that think that you’re weird, think that you’re different. Think that you’re off and that you’re crazy, or that you’re flat out ignorant. But if you can, if you can accept that and and not that you have to accept that person in your life. But if you can embrace the fact that people are different, then you’ve already won you’ve already gotten you know, the victory.
Victoria Volk 1:04:43
Yeah, except that it’s an opinion and the only opinion matters, that matters is the one you have about yourself.
Nicky Scorpio 1:04:49
Yes.
Victoria Volk 1:04:50
And my grief, you know, with the election, and I didn’t plan to go here but my grief with the election. And I even share it on my social media is that, you know, we talk about unity, unity, unity, and let’s come together. And then I see people on Instagram just like, if you don’t believe how I believe and you didn’t vote how I voted, you are not welcome here. There is no room for you here. So, I was like, oh my gosh, thanks. are you adding to the dome to the discord and the negativity in the separation?
Nicky Scorpio 1:05:28
Yeah, I think I think we can, I think we can briefly talk about this, because I’ve had this conversation with my mom, you know, Berkeley, Berkeley, California, is very much how Berkeley is it’s, it’s, you know, people who don’t live on the west coast, a lot of times will tease people who are in California or whatever, or, you know, talk about like, conspiracy theorists and stuff like that. And I have friends who are Republican, I have friends that are democratic, I have friends from all different walks of life, some of their beliefs, I don’t, I don’t share their beliefs. But I again, like I, for me, for me, it’s a simple, it’s a simple thing of like, I want for people to accept and to embrace me. So, I would be hypocritical. If somebody came up to me and was like this president, this person should be president, this person should be president. And I put them down, because my beliefs and my thoughts for me are valid. So So therefore, what another person comes into this world and share something and their thoughts aren’t valid, like somehow they’re not a human being, you know, and for me, that’s the biggest frustration with all of this is that people need to stop thinking that when one person becomes president, or when one thing changes, that things are going to get better, we need to say, you know what, I don’t agree with you. I don’t agree with your philosophy. But however, like I can try to understand, I can be curious. And and I can maybe learn a different way and not and still stay true to myself, you know, because there is there is this huge thing of like, like, there’s articles where it’s like, oh, look, the republicans are are putting down the democrats beat. And there’s all this talk about votes being fake. But look at how the republicans were being this way, when when they were making fun of the democrats for the votes, not counting whatever, like, and it’s silly, it’s like, you’re doing the same thing. You’re being children right now. Like, stop it, like, just accept accepted someone’s different than you and just be okay with that, like, it’s the same way you’d want for somebody to do to you.
Victoria Volk 1:07:35
And go, what example are we setting for kids right now? in society, right? And it’s really scary to me that, that I see this stuff, and these people are parents. And it’s like, whoa, like, I would hope that if my child is different, or doesn’t vote, however, someone else calls that they will be given grace for their differing opinions, and that my children would give other kids that same grace for their differing opinions? Do we really want a world of minions and robots? I mean, that’s my biggest question here. It’s diversity, you know, and there’s a thing to like, we’re supposed to embrace. This is my thought that I couldn’t remember earlier. We are told to embrace diversity, right? We are a country of diversity. And yet, we do not accept diversity. Because if we really truly did, we would understand that there is there are diversity, also in stories, and people’s pain, in their grief, that we all share grief that we all share. Yeah, just different. Yeah, and that is the one thing that that unites us all. So how about we embrace that everyone is going through something and it’s different than what it is from you what it is for me, but it doesn’t make it less it doesn’t make it less traumatic for them. That is the that is the most hurtful thing that anyone can do to a griever is to compare, and yeah, go ahead.
Nicky Scorpio 1:09:16
I would say like, you know, if if there’s anyone I’m really big into like family into into kids like it’s like for me, like children are everything and having healthy children as well. There are everything and if there’s if there’s anyone who is a new parent, or is going to be a parent, one of one of the things where I feel like really makes such a major change in a kid’s life, is bring them around diversity. Like I grew up, literally like I wish I had like a photo that there’s every color of the rainbow, every kind of background and walk of life. So, when I when I came into the world as an adult, nothing surprised me. Nothing shocked me and I understood unrespected everyone else’s culture whereas when you live in, in a world where you don’t travel and and you’re a small-minded people, and nobody’s traveling, and nobody’s trying to look at anything else except for other than, than their belief, then then everything is scary and everything is unknown, and everything is different and this kind of stuff. And if you can just try No, it’s difficult to travel right now. But if if you can really bring bring kids or bring yourself bring your inner child around different cultures, and and just show that to them so that when they when they grow older, when you know, TV is telling you this person is scarier this way is better this way. You already know, you know what, you know, and that’s your truth. That’s the truth. It’s not this way or that way. It’s It’s It’s undeniable. You know, like, yeah, its diversity, what a concept. That’s what makes America great.
Victoria Volk 1:10:55
Here’s the other thing on that, thank you. That’s what makes America great. To think back on that, it’s, I don’t think you need to lose leave home, to experience diversity or to understand it or learn about it, right? I think it’s actually instill a thirst for learning. To seeking, to seeking those diverse stories out to seeking like, watch National Geographic, you know?
Nicky Scorpio 1:11:30
I love following nature hashtags and stuff like I love, I love that, I’m big, big nature guy.
Victoria Volk 1:11:37
And the History Channel and I mean, we watch the history channels a family, it’s like learning. We watched Cice. Yeah, there’s a channel called vice.
Nicky Scorpio 1:11:47
Vice is so cool. The History Channel is so cool. There’s there’s so much like, when I’m really big into the History Channel, all the different shows about like, I forget the guy’s name, Vaughn Diedrich, or something like that, like he’s been dedicated his whole life and found the original scripts from like, the Bible, and how different it is. And they talk about how like aliens and in stuff like that stuff that they would never teach in school. Yes, seeking knowledge is is for me, like I have to because if I don’t, then I’ll, I’ll lose my mind. I have to keep on learning and see what else is out there.
Victoria Volk 1:12:24
And that’s the thing. It’s like, when my kids asked me, well, why did why does this person believe that? Or why does I don’t know? But why don’t you research about that? And you can maybe put yourself in their shoes and understand why they believe that. You know, it’s Yeah, our diversity is our backgrounds. Our diversity is our grieving stories. It’s not just what you see at face value, right?
Nicky Scorpio 1:12:52
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s huge. Good on you. Yeah, no, I definitely.
Victoria Volk 1:12:58
Embracing the whole human.
Nicky Scorpio 1:13:01
Yeah. Yeah. And especially especially with with children, because again, like kids are so resilient. And when you can, when you can give a healthy perspective to a kid at a young age, they’ll understand these concepts. Like when you you tell you tell the kid like I remember, there’s So Katie, her her, her nephew, he’s, he’s right at that age, kind of, like, Where, where I was when, like, everything kind of started changing. And I remember, you know, there was a moment we were hanging out and he got upset with his sisters. It’s like sibling stuff, and that not really a big issue. And he reacted in a big way. And I said, you know, it’s okay to be angry, but it’s not okay, when you’re angry, and you take out that anger onto other people around you. And, and it was like, click, and he got it. And, and that’s the thing is when you’re around kids, like, it’s so important to give off that healthy, you know, perspective and, and really dropped those little gems, because it’s not it’s not it is available, but it’s not promoted. That makes sense. Like they could they could find out this information. But it’s not what that recommends. It’s not what’s being advertised. It’s getting there. But yeah, it’s good on you for sharing that with your kids. Because kids, kids will get it kids. Kids want to connect with diversity. They want to be around diversity. They don’t want to just have the same old same, they want to learn they want to grow and expand by nature.
Victoria Volk 1:14:32
Yeah, they’re natural sponges. And we learn everything we learn about grief and how to process it by the age of 12. By 12, we already learned 75% 12-15. We’ve learned 75% on how to process and go through grief. So, my piggyback to that what you just shared is that it starts with us as the parents, caregivers, the caretakers, anyone who is in charge of the well being and welfare The whole child. And we all play a role in that. And I’ll tell you one thing. I am a better parent today than I was 15 years ago when I first had my son. And I have grief around that, honestly. Because I wish I would have had the self awareness that I do now. I wish I had that, then, you know, I would have been, I was the angry parent. Yeah, angry a lot. And it starts with us. Yeah, it starts with us. Because that generational learning that will continue on until we unpack our own crap.
Nicky Scorpio 1:15:43
yeah, well, there’s there’s two things, there’s two things I want to say. One is a quick one vision, the owner of the creator of mind Valley, talked about how he had unhealthy beliefs where he heard his parents talking about, they had to choose to give a gift or not give a gift for Christmas. And so, he grew up with unhealthy he heard that and he translated that into an unhealthy belief. And then he idolized a teacher, and the teacher was struggling, they had to help out the teacher, so that the teacher could pay rent, everybody got together. And so, he, in his mind created a belief that, that teachers in order to be a teacher, that, you know, it’s it’s, it’s more authentic to struggle, and so he’d make hundreds of 1000s of dollars, and he would give it all away, right? So, there’s that aspect. And then second, so it’s being it’s being aware, it’s being aware of what we’re sharing, and speaking about around children. Because again, they are very, they’re so open. And, but they also can, you know, miss-translate things, but also my, my mom had this conversation with me. She’s had it several times, and recently, she had it and it was like, her, you know, sharing this thing of, like, oh, I could have been a better mom to you. And, you know, like, I wish that circumstances had been better. And there was all this, like, guilt and all this shame. And I started sharing, kind of, like what was going on in my life, cuz my mom and I talk, you know, fairly regularly, but there’s a lot that she knows, and there’s a lot that she doesn’t know. And for me, what I would say to any, you know, parents out there who feel any kind of like guilt or shame is that, again, like you don’t know, you don’t know what’s being written into their book, you don’t know why things are happening, the way that they’re happening. And I feel like, the best thing that we can do is, is to say like that you’re good enough. And that you’re and that you matter, and that, you know, if you have any weird or different ideas, that they’re cool, because kids are going to translate things you’re going to hear. And it’s not the parents’ fault. It’s not It’s not my fault that I heard my mom talking about ABC. And so like, I made this whole story of like, you know, this means this and that means that it’s it’s more so of, I’m going on my journey, and I’m learning my lessons and, and things are happening to me so that like I can do something with this information. That’s that’s my work in this life. For me, like, That’s the meaning of life is like, we all have our own things that we’re learning, we all have our own things that we’re going through. And you know, and people come into our lives and they come and go, and it’s what we do with that and you know, what, what our character says about us how we choose to react to these things we all go through but just having just having that support system, just having people again around me, and it’s not about like, people saying like, oh, you’re doing a great job. But my the most successful people in life, the the common thing that they all shared is is that they had parents and they had people around them that whenever they had a weird or different idea, they were always celebrated in that way there was always like, yes, you can be this way. Yes, like, there there’s a I don’t know if it was the Vinci, I think it was the Vinci where, like, he grew up believing even though he wasn’t rich, that he grew up believing that he was rich. And so, he was able to accomplish things and, and so art and be this legendary painter, because he believed this and, you know, and just having that belief system, you know, is is such an important thing. But I think for for parents out there, let go of any expectations of like, oh, I wish that I had been a better parent, I wish that my my kid felt more loved or that you know, they were able to have this kind of life because you really really don’t know what resilience they’re getting and what lessons are getting out of it. The best you can do is is just to really be there for your kids and say like you’re going to go through hard times you’re going to go through difficult times. There’s going to be a point in your life where life is not going to make sense and you’re not going to know What to do, and that’s okay. And I’m here for you. And you need to know that even if you’re embarrassed, even if you feel that it’s a terrible thing, I unconditionally love you. And I’m going to be here for you. And, and I believe in you, and you’re good enough. And and, and that’s it and just start from there, you know?
Victoria Volk 1:20:19
I just want to bring up one point, the thought that children are resilient. And this isn’t to poopoo on you saying that, but I just want to highlight the fact though, that when we say that the children are resilient, we can sometimes minimize sure of their experience. And because I know for me personally, I was only eight. I don’t know really what was going on, you know, like, we underestimate children. And so, using that language of they’re resilient. It’s almost like that they’ll get through this, they’ll get through this. And I know that’s not your intention. I know that’s not your intention.
Nicky Scorpio 1:21:08
Yeah. Not at all to downplay it. I, I think it’s more so I think it’s more so that that. So, you know, kids, kids are more of an open book, when you when you talk with somebody who you know is a little bit older, they’ve already seen it, they’ve already been there, they’ve already done it, right. So, like, we all like, you know, you know, this, like we all experienced, we all experience grief, right? If you can have a conversation, when I say resilient, what I mean is, when you have a conversation with the child, they are more open to the concept that you’re teaching. So like when I was younger, and I went through what I went through, I was still optimistic, even though my my life was like, my home went like this, and everything went like this and in my mind, and then all of a sudden, I went from being again, I went from being this happy go lucky child to just being angry and comparing myself, but but when when I understood why I was feeling this way, that from me, like everything clicked. So when you have a conversation with the child to say, again, like you’re at a certain point in your life, things are not going to make sense. Or you’re going to look at somebody else and think their life is better. You have have the knowing within yourself, to know that your picture will be painted beautifully, their notes, I know it’s cliche, but your your book will be written beautifully, or whatever the references that you want to give that your life. Although it might not make sense at this point, there will be a time after that happens, where you see why all of this stuff happens. And it will be a blessing. If you’re optimistic, if you have that healthy perspective. It’s not to say, kids can just go through whatever because I’ve seen even now that I’m older, like I’ve, I’ve seen kids that are going through stuff and I’m just like, wow, and the people that are involved with these kids who aren’t their parents are looking and saying, Oh my god, I can’t believe his kids are going through this. And I’m like, No, but their kids that go that have at the hardest, that that do have the brilliance to be able to, to to rise from it are the ones that change the world, the kid that that goes through the tragedy that loses a parent or somebody to a terrible disease becomes a doctor and they and they help 1000s of people so it’s it’s it’s difficult, but it’s you know, within that conversation, it’s it’s that kids are more open to understanding why they’re making the choices that they’re making. And and that you know, like they can have peace within who they are. You know, if I had had somebody telling me when I was in high school, you know, that this girl who said this to you that that made you gain 90 pounds, she was hurting inside and she was angry at herself. I might not have had so much junk food, you know. So like that that kind of thing I’m saying more so to clarify.
Victoria Volk 1:24:12
Yes, and that is the key thing, communication, that is the key thing. And we are not going to be the initiators of that communication with those kids. We are uncomfortable with our own what’s going on with us, right? And what’s going on in the situation. You know, my mom did not have a clue how to process what she was going through. She therefore was emotionally unavailable to help me do that. So that’s your 100% on on that communication. That is the key and to if you don’t know where to do what to do or where to start and seek that education. You know, it’s we have a book the grief recovery Institute, john James Russell Friedman wrote an excellent book. It’s called when children grieve. There’s your education. I facilitate the program in a group group setting online to help you do that, to help you learn those skills and education. So there there is education out there. And like you said, like, the online resources, there’s I mean, you don’t need a PhD in Hard Knocks.
Nicky Scorpio 1:25:26
Yeah, um, one like to your, to your point, recently, like, a couple years ago, there was a woman that I spoke with who introduced me to just really like went in depth about being an introvert and recommended a couple books to me. And, you know, the library now has audio books where you can get knowledge for free, you can just, if you’re not an actual, if you’re not a person who likes to actually hold a book, which holding a book and turning the pages is beautiful, and it’s a whole experience within itself. However, if you’re not that person, which is okay, and you’re busy, you’re on the go, you can get audiobooks, for free. When I started really understanding the concept of being an introvert, and what a gift it is, in a society that’s very extroverted. And again, as always, like no, you got to put on a smile, you got to be good, you got to be upbeat, you got to have energy, you got to have this and that, when I started realizing this is everything that I’ve been trying to explain to people where it’s such a gift to be introverted, it’s such a gift to to, to say, like, I’m going to go within myself, and I’m going to study and I’m going to, you know, like, learn these kind of concepts. When I understood that, for me, that was, I think, actually, that would really be one of the biggest moments where I got freedom was like, Yes, like, when I lived in, in Hollywood, like I would introduce to people that were producers that owned agencies that were living in bel air that were living in dream homes, and, and then and I’d be introduced to this person, like, you know, this is gonna be, you know, the greatest person you’ve ever met, and they have all these opportunities, and I could look right into their eye and say, like, something’s off, something’s off here. And when I understood that, that that’s part of the gift of being an introvert, then I could expand from there instead of saying, like, I should be networking, I should be like this person. I just like producers in music, music producers are often very, very introverted people, they can just live in a cave and just make music and never ever, ever come out. Even Dr. Dre like Dr. Dre, is very introverted to a certain degree like he could at the beginning of his career, like he could lock himself in his in his house and just make music and that was it. You know, but when when you understand these kinds of concepts, and for anybody out there who doesn’t like meeting people who get social anxiety, chances are, you’re an introvert. And there are gifts that come with being an introvert, and extroverted people crave people like us, because they just want to keep meeting people. And they don’t often see the person that they’re meeting with is not a good person. So, if something feels off to you, then that’s a gift. And you shouldn’t doubt that you should listen to yourself, and you should understand this part of yourself and keep expanding on it. There’s things you can do so that you can expand on this gift. And everywhere you go no matter where you’re like, nope, this person isn’t for me, this person isn’t for me, this situation isn’t for me. And and that’s it. You know, yeah, knowledge, knowledge is power. Education, what a concept.
Victoria Volk 1:28:31
Introverts unite, you’re an introvert. And I never really thought of it as gift either you feel like you grew up feeling like something’s wrong with you, right?
Nicky Scorpio 1:28:42
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:28:43
Such a jam-packed conversation, I absolutely love this. I don’t even know like I’ve so many notes jotted down, I’m not even sure where I’m going to pull a clip for this episode. It’s been a joy, getting to know you to meet you. Definitely a light in the world and keep shining. You know, you see a need in the industry in which you work. And I’ve no doubt that you’re creating ripples. Even if it’s an you know, your immediate circles of people that you know, we are the some of the five people that we surround ourselves with, right? I’m not sure who said that. But I’ve read that a long time ago, some entrepreneurs said that.
Nicky Scorpio 1:29:32
You’re a pioneer yourself, and it takes one to know one and, you know, just keep I acknowledge you and you know, we need to we need to just acknowledge acknowledge people around us and you know, and we need to really, as a society outside of myself as like an artist like we need to acknowledge and give more power and more compassion to people like yourself which are educators and teachers. Like it’s not easy it’s not it’s not always fun people do it because it’s a necessity because they have to and we need to like myself included like to hold myself accountable that anytime that there is somebody who is teaching and sharing a lot of times they have it the hardest and if you know you’re listening and you know somebody who’s an educator or a teacher or someone who is a thought leader to really it’s not that they’re more important it’s not their emotions are more important than yours it’s to say like give them that encouragement and and to tell them how awesome they are because although people might seem like they have it all together you know, you never know and again that’s that’s the power of community so you know, thank you for doing what you’re doing. I know that it’s not easy and I acknowledge you and I think it’s great work that you’re doing, and I have every bit of faith that this will continue to get cooler and cooler and bigger and brighter and I appreciate you thank you for doing what you’re doing and for having me, it’s a gift.
Victoria Volk 1:31:01
Thank you for that, Nikky. It’s uh yeah that’s my grief cool, not in like a, not in like a, you know.
Nicky Scorpio 1:31:10
If you will hang out in the dark kind of way but yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:31:13
Yeah, it’s here to stay right it’s not going anywhere. It’s it’s not this. Let’s like, take off the disguise of the monster that we look at it like and that it feels like for us it’s like this looming breathe numbing, horrible moss, this beast, you know, that is all consuming and there’s hope. There’s hope. You’re sitting here talking to me. And the life that you’ve endured and the things that you’ve gone through. That Nicky’s hope you guys and the people that I bring on my podcast or hope, their hope bringers and so I don’t take my guests lightly. And so, thank you for sharing your story. And where can people find you if they want to connect with you?
Nicky Scorpio 1:32:05
Yeah, I’m at yournickyscorpio on Instagram. I’m part of a collective on YouTube, the sophisticated psychos, we’re doing a lot of content in the same kind of realm. And those are kind of the main places I have distanced myself from Facebook because I’m tired of what we’re talking about earlier. I’m tired of angry emojis. I’m really on on Instagram. But yeah, definitely keep in touch I’m going to be releasing some really really cool music that is really about everything. It’s about connectivity. And what’s really cool about it is I’ve connected with an amazing scientist and there’s going to be healing within the music there’s going to be frequencies within the music we’re going to bring that to the forefront for people who’ve been doing this for decades and for centuries we’re going to make all of this healing all of this Eastern philosophies we’re gonna make this mainstream and make it cool so yeah, please connect with me if you ever need a friend no judgement you have a safe space and me a direct message I’m here we’re all human and sometimes we feel alone and you’re not alone.
Victoria Volk 1:33:16
You’re not alone. And that’s they can’t by neural beats right or something like that, correct?
Nicky Scorpio 1:33:22
There’s by neural beats there’s there’s frequencies there’s so really quickly if you go on to YouTube, there’s a amazing documentary by a scientist who discovered the HIV virus lukeman taglia he’s French if you look up that he basically he takes he takes just look up water documentary Lucas Elysee. I believe in montignier, he’s French, but he basically takes a recording where he puts he puts the virus inside of the water takes a recording sends it off to a lab 1000s of miles away they played in water that’s just normal everyday just unaffected water they play the sound the sound of the virus and they recreate the virus inside of the water so in in he’s showing you can do this with cures and all these other sciences we’re trying to stop him say that he’s crazy because they want to silence this kind of conversation. Also, in the tech world in San Francisco they’re using the same frequencies that resonate in certain pyramids in Egypt for levitation so so what what I’m what I’m doing what we’re doing, and when I say we the sophisticated cycles we connected with the subtle energies in name and its quantum physics. So, it’s it’s putting, it’s putting the energy of and this is all scientists, this is all documented. This is all fact-based stuff. This isn’t me. This isn’t the conspiracy theorists that I lead with fact-based evidence that the more you you live in the same way when you say loving things into water changes, the actual shape changes the structure of it. So, we’re putting this it’s by neural beats are one way of doing it, it’s different, it’s going to be silent. It’s not that you’re going to notice it, but you’re going to feel it the more you listen to it, the better you feel. This has been around for centuries. It’s just time to you know, we’re moving backwards when we’re moving forwards at the same time our ancestors used to talk about this kind of stuff, so we’re just making it you know, giving it the respect, it deserves again.
Victoria Volk 1:35:25
We could have a whole nother conversation about just energy because as a Reiki Master, boy, my eyes have been open like wide open energy.
Nicky Scorpio 1:35:34
Have you ever heard Donna Eden Gino? Donna Eden?
Victoria Volk 1:35:39
Yes, actually Yes.
Nicky Scorpio 1:35:40
Energy medicine. I studied with her. I met her through vision in mind Valley and that’s a whole other Yeah, I could definitely anytime I love talking about energy, because I can show I can show people like I can actually. I’ve learned teachers. Yeah, but yet energy is everything. And we’re that’s what’s cool is that we’re Lastly, I don’t want to keep on talking about this. But we are going this is the world that we’re going into. So no fear. If you feel like everything’s being split apart. We’re actually going into an exciting time. We just have to unlearn and we’re healing and it’s going to get more and more and more exciting because of people like us because of this amazing community. So don’t give up hope. It’s actually getting better, okay? and that’s it.
Victoria Volk 1:36:18
Can’t raise the vibration of the world overnight. Right? Each one of us.
Nicky Scorpio 1:36:24
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, thanks again. You’re awesome. You’re rock star.
Victoria Volk 1:36:29
Ah, likewise, this was awesome. Thank you so much. Again. I’m going to link everything that we just talked about in the show notes, the youtube documentaries. Any resources that Nicky mentioned, I’ll put in the show notes. Remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections from Ep. 28 & 29 | Breaking the Cycle
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Episode 28 with Quandell Wright offered me a perspective of what life was like for him growing up on the streets of Detroit, MI. He had to grow up fast, growing up with a single-parenting mom during his younger years, and how he found himself in a gang. I share thoughts about how easily a parent can make parenting choices based on fear.
I share, from Ruthie Bowles episode (Episode 29) more about my thoughts on how the traumas that happen to us, like sexual assault, impact our parenting. I also include the tips Ruthie shared from her episode on what to look for in a friend whose behavior has changed and seems to be keeping something from you.
These two stories are an excellent representation of how our experiences, both growing up, and as adults, change us, thereby, also change in how we move about in the world, and yes, parent.
These illustrate how important it is to take ownership of our lives and empower ourselves with new knowledge; challenging what we were brought up to believe to be true about grief and break the cycle so many of us find ourselves in.
Resources Mentioned:
Quick Link to Previous Episodes:
Need help?
Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.
And so today I just want to share a little bit more behind the interviews with Quandell and Ruthie and I’ll start with Quandell, the one thing I’m finding I love, really love about podcasting is I almost describe like it’s like reading a book. You know, I prefer a book in my hands always have, but it’s like reading a book. But listening to the audio version, from the person’s words, and like a book, through story were taken to another place another time, and another life another way of being another experience that probably is not at all, like our own. And that was Quandell story for me. I’m a white woman growing up in rural North Dakota. And I’d only heard just a little snippet of Quandell’s story before I asked him to be on the podcast.
And yeah, it was kind of for selfish reasons, because I really wanted to understand from his perspective, what it was like, growing up where he did, and it was in the rough parts of Detroit, where there was gang activity, and where he had found himself within the chaos of that life. And so I really was very curious to learn more about what life was like for him. And what it’s like for many people who experienced a similar situation like him. Because you know, the thing is, when we can hear other people’s stories, get an understanding of where they’re coming from, why they maybe feel the way they feel about certain things, what they believe in why they believe those things, we gain understanding. And when there’s understanding there’s more so to be likely compassion. And so that is my hope that you hear these stories, Quandells, Ruthies any of these stories, and you have more compassion, that we are all human beings doing the best we can walk in our own journey. Whether it’s in rural North Dakota, in the military, like Ruthie or in the streets of Detroit.
A Story of Determination on Surviving Life
So Quandell really touched my heart in a unique for the Hard Knocks of life. And, you know, I don’t know what it’s like to be a single mother, growing, you know, raising children in poverty on the streets of Detroit, but I can sympathize and empathize with the fear of what that means of not knowing if or when your child will make it home, alive. And so this fear is what perpetuates this feeling of I gotta prepare you, I’ve got to toughen you up so that you can stand up for yourself. And through Quandell’s story. Like I said, despite everything, he opened up his home to some men, where they would have a space to share. And I saw this determination and him to make something of his life through his creativity, his passion and his work for his clothing line, and the how deeply rooted. That was, for him growing up as a as a young child, drawing and doodling. And the influence that he got from his grandfather, but then yet didn’t even realize until much later in life. It was just this story of how do you claw your way out of all of that? And if you haven’t listened to the episode, he attempted suicide three times. And it was on the third time that he ended up in a psych hospital that changed his life. But he also became a young father at 16. And again, 19. And so there’s all these elements at play in his life that, you know, the odds are stacked against him.
And yet I see this man was sharing his story. And I couldn’t believe that he was sitting. I was looking at him, and he was sharing it with me, right? So I’ve had several of those types of interviews. It’s always humbling to me. that have been transformative in his healing and in his life. Several of them I’d read that he shared and some I hadn’t. I particularly loved the towards the end of the episode to where his advice was to smile. At the end, he said, Look in the mirror and smile at yourself. And for Quandell he has the gap between his teeth. And he said I always hated my smile. And I did look into he said, you know, getting it fixed, but you know, it’d be a lot, you know, a couple $1,000. And then if I got braces, and you have to wear a retainer for the rest of your life either. Now, that ain’t for me. Loving myself is just a little bit easier, cheaper. Maybe I don’t know if it’s easier because it is hard. You know, when you’ve had traumatic experiences and you’ve lived through your own living hell. It can be really difficult to give love to the first person that you should be giving it to and that’s yourself. When I first started my personal development journey. It’s such an overused word, but it’s the truth. It is a journey. One of the things that just peeling back the layers, unlearning all of the garbage that were taught growing up, whether it was well intentioned or not, our parents do what they know, with what they have at the time.
And, you know, here’s the thing too, like how we parent, our children definitely is influenced, not definitely it is influenced by how we were raised. Because that our belief systems are formed in childhood, they’re developed in childhood. And, like I said, whether intentionally or not, we learn what we learn. So as adults, we have a lot of unlearning to do more often than not, because our parents bring their traumas and their hurts and their pains into their parenting and how they parent and what they say and how they say it, and such as the generational cyclic learning. And so it really is up to each and every one of us to take ownership 1%, at least 1% responsibility for our lives and everything in it, and every one in it, that is there. And they are there. Because in some, whether subconsciously or consciously we chose it we choose every single day. And we can choose love and light and moving towards that direction. I’ll be it if it causes us pain and suffering along the way to unlearn and unpack and undo, and re learn new tools and new knowledge. Or we can continue to go in the opposite direction, and towards pain and more suffering and keep repeating the same patterns of behavior that brought us to that pain and additional suffering in the first place. So I hope you listen to Quandell’s episode and you consider how his parenting could have been influenced very differently, how there could be a very strong possibility that he wouldn’t have even had known as children, his children wouldn’t have known him had he not decided and chose a different path for himself. And he says, you know, not everything is perfect, I’m not perfect. It’s unlearning is an unraveling all the knots of become our lives takes time. It’s not an overnight process at all, but he’s working towards it. And that’s what I saw in him. Is this determination to be the best self he can possibly be.
A Story of Sexual Assault While Serving in the Military
Episode 29th Guest Ruthie Bowles shared her story of sexual assault while serving in the military. Her first experience was with a boyfriend, which not many people may consider that yes, you can be sexually assaulted. While you’re in a relationship. He has no means no. Right? Which we do get into and did get into in that episode. So I do hope you listen. But the second time was also when the day she got back from deployment, which is striking because, you know, you deploy to, I believe it was, I want to say she said Afghanistan, she deployed to Afghanistan comes home and is assaulted in her own barracks room. Ironic, in a way in all that. And I think so many soldiers actually, who survives a deployment, because honestly, if you were being shot at you survived deployment. And when she’s in uniform, she’s military personnel. And so there’s this duality of existence for time when you’re active duty. And she describes her uniform as a shield that she didn’t realize she was wearing after these events took place. And that really struck me because you really don’t have to wear a uniform to build that shield, right? But for her because her experiences took place with other military personnel, her rank became something to that was a part of her shield. And she lived up to this identity that she had created for herself of one that I’m not someone you mess with. And yet at the same time, what sexual assault did to her was create this conflict of and we talked about, and this is what struck me what came up, because I think it’s really something that a lot of women or men, or anyone who is sexually assaulted experiences is that you would think, you know, because you’re sexually assaulted, you aren’t interested in sex, and that your relationships are turned off and, and what have you.
But the other side of that is that you can have this feeling of where does your self worth go? Where do your boundaries go? You probably didn’t have any and that’s what led or can was a contributing factor to what built you up to be find yourself in a position like that. Because like I said, it goes back to our upbringing. And if you don’t feel a strong sense of self, I think you’re more vulnerable to people who can manipulate and take advantage. Make you feel less than you lack self confidence, self assurance, not sure really who you are. Because a lot of people I mean, how many 18 year old really know who they are. So all these things combined her upbringing, your beliefs, your sense, like the level of sense of self that you have mixin and, you know, a military training that’s supposed to break you down and build you up. But like Ruthie says, and I would agree with that, that’s really what happens. I went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, and they yelled at you, there’s mostly men, and the culture back then was I don’t know what it’s like now. But that was the idea is that they tear you down so they can build you up. There’s a lot of components to that that are missing, because they don’t know what your upbringing was like, when you sign the dotted line and say you’re willing to give up your life for your country. They don’t ask you, well had you been sexually assaulted before? Have you suffered the loss of a parent at a young age? Did you see someone die when you were young? All these different experiences that contribute to what we call and, you know, grief recovery, but they’re in psychology, they’re called aces, adverse childhood experiences, and consider each adverse childhood experience as an ace.
And the more you have, the more likely you are to experience or find yourself having an addiction. And all these, you know, a mental disorder, or undiagnosed depression are all these numbers of things that can happen as a result, because those experiences change you on a physical, physiological, and chemically like your brain, at a cellular level. So none of those things are taken in consideration when you sign the dotted line. And then when you go on deploy, and you see your battle, buddy die, you were shot out, you go out of the wire every single day and wonder if you’re going to make it back. You hear of other battalions or platoons that go out before you who suffer losses of life. It’s this fight, flight or freeze that Ruthie mentioned that I think the freeze part isn’t often Yeah, kind of ignored. It’s like you think you know how you’re going to react in a certain situation, but you really don’t know until you’re in it right? And so what she said to as unhelpful to her is that people would say, well, when this was happening to you, why didn’t you fight back? Why didn’t you cry for help? For some people? I would say, How do you know I didn’t? And if I did, it obviously didn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because we cannot control what other people think feel or do just as Ruthie said.
When Shame Came Up
How easily someone can find themselves in a position of doing something that isn’t in their nature or their character. But because of alcohol, or because of peer pressure, or a combination of both, may do something that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. My husband and I actually just talked about this, the day before I’m recording this. And my thought around it was that, you know, in shame, shame came up. Because people that carry shame, they show you, they show you shame, and how they behave, the choices they make, how they treat others, a lot of us, many of us carry shame. And it can look very differently for everyone. And I think for the most part, if you feel guilty about something, you likely have shame. And so I loved how that came up when she was talking about raising her boys. Because I really do think it’s important that there are decisions that we may make in life that we aren’t necessarily proud of. And it’s that shame that either keeps us stuffing our feelings with food, sex, drugs, gambling, all these STERBS, the short term energy relieving behaviors that I talked about in grief recovery.
That grief recovery actually helps to bring to light to help you recognize to bring an awareness around what you do, in response to shame to grieve to your feelings, and then arm you with new knowledge and tools to navigate and rid yourself of that. A part of Ruthie story that also came up. I brought actually just I think it was a few days before I’d interviewed her the Vanessa Guillen’s story on 2020 aired, or perhaps no, it was a recording actually, I DVR it and had watched it just actually before Ruth is episode recorded. And I wanted to share the stats once again, that I’d read in an article referring to the Vanessa Guillen case, who if you don’t know she was a soldier in the military at Fort Hood, who had been being sexually harassed by a superior ranking enlisted soldier. And she was planning to press charges or report that person and she ended up dead for it. He killed her in a really horrific way. And but one of the points highlighted in the story was that every year that 20,000 service members are sexually assaulted. Now, Ruthie pointed out that’s of people that report. So I think she and I both agree that that number is actually more likely quite higher, substantially higher, I would would say, of those 20,000 5000 will actually report 500 of those would be court martialed, and of those 500 to 250 would actually be convicted. And again, I mean, how do they estimate 20,000 when only 5000 report? So yeah, when you hear that? It’s like how is raising boys versus girls possibly any easier. I would agree with Ruthie and I’m so glad she highlighted that and brought that up in the episode.
Revictimization
Another aspect of her story that she brought up is this re victimization that she experienced, you know, of having to repeat her story of, you know, having the proof and then it accidentally being destroyed her case not going anywhere. And, you know, years later, many years later now, it’s still dragging now because she’s, you know, trying to get some sort of benefit for, you know, PTSD that she still is living with as a result of her experiences. So I hope the VA does the right thing. But if they don’t, you know, she’s back at square one, having to work through and navigate that disappointment all over again, this let down feeling of an entity that you swore your life to protect, to serve. So I love that she shared some tips of how she began to heal, she talks about things to look out for and friends who may have been sexually assaulted themselves. And one is changes in behavior. So that’s where we kind of talked about, you know, this idea that just because you’ve been sexually assaulted, you’re an interested in sex anymore. But you know, the opposite can happen where you actually just kind of get this I don’t care, attitude, our I’m going to get you before you get me. I’m going to give it to you before I before I say no, and you take it away. So this influx of relationships, you know, the subsequent relationships, gaslighting were another thing she said to look out for was gaslighting, where someone may ask you, you know what’s going on seems like something, something’s up. And they’re like, No, nothing’s wrong, but you seem a little off lately, or there’s something going on with you, you know, and they kind of turn it around on you make you seem like you’re the crazy one for asking.
Good at Redirecting Conversation
Another point she made was, they’re really good at redirecting conversation, which kind of plays into the whole gaslighting thing. And she also says to be gentle, but focused. So I understand that I like how she put it where you’re going to have to knock on this door several times, until I feel safe with you to open up until I can know and feel comfortable that you’re ready to hear what I have to share. And that’s a poignant point, because a lot of people and I think until you’ve been a victim yourself of sexual assault, you really don’t understand that depth. Again, it comes back to you think you know what you would do? And until it happens to you, you know, you don’t. A lot of good stuff in both of the episodes.
I hope you take a listen. And maybe your tact and your approach changes a little bit because of something you’ve heard on this on this podcast. It is very much for Grievers, but also for non Grievers and so I hope that starting to that bigger picture, that bigger vision for this podcast, I hope is starting to become more clear why this is so important to me. I do have some lighter questions that I’m working into the episodes coming up. You know, this has been a learning process. I’m learning as I go. And there was one episode with Victoria Shah, that I got some feedback that they liked that it was, you know, she shared her story of like losing herself and things like that. But yeah, it was it seemed lighter, it was like a lighter, felt lighter, but yet it was still helpful if you’re a griever. And so I’m looking to do a little bit more of that.
And I was a reminder of, there are people that have lived some really terrible atrocities in their life, and they’ve made it to the other side. I’ve always loved a good triumph story. I was a kid, even now, like commercials like our stories I see. Oh, Jim Hartman is a can always bring me to tears. Jim Hartman, runs special sometimes on what used to be on the CBS News, but it’s always a feel good.
Love Yourself
Try and fit. Not always, but it’s always a feel good story. And it’s always one that is kind of touching. I think, too. He does it often on CBS Sunday morning. It’s where I catch a lot of them now. But I can always bring me to tears pretty easily. I just, I really have a soft spot for people who beat all odds. And kondos advice applies to anybody, you know, one day at a time, take it one day at a time. I love the parenting advice from his perspective of being a young parent himself. The other thing too, is, you know, he’s always he’s been working on himself, he’s made it a priority to work on himself after his experience in the psych hospital. That’s when he got that advice himself was to take it one day at a time, he shares a lot of several books that he recommends would read or hear a lot about is the importance of loving yourself.
And you can’t give to others what you can’t give to yourself. But how hard is that right? It is really hard. Well, the act of doing it isn’t hard. But it’s all the others stuff and gunk and sludgy messes in your heart that kind of are wet make it hard, right? And so healing really is, to me. It’s not a laughing matter. But I mean, you look at it that way. Some soldiers survive multiple deployments come home, and surviving life is the greatest battle they ever fight. The center view brought back memories for me of my time in the military. I was in the North Dakota Army National Guard, whereas Ruthie was full time. So granted, the experiences are very different. I also, I deployed but I had deployed to Iraq, as a medic. And so we left the wire every single day to clear roadside bombs. That was that was my battalions job, and I went along as the medic with my platoon. And so every day when you got back, you survived another day, and we did lose soldiers on our deployment.
But it’s life at home that can sometimes bring, like I said, the biggest challenges we face in for Ruthie, it was a real blend of the two it was this life at home. Where, when she’s not in uniform, she’s a civilian.
P.S. But also within each episode, bringing a balance right to the depth of pain to the other side to the lighter side of what’s their joy. And so you’ll start to see that kind of transform a little bit in the interviews coming up. But until then, remember that when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Until next time, much love.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Mental Health, Sexual Trauma, Veteran |
Ruthie Bowles | Fight, Flight, & Freeze: Sexual Assault in the Military
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Ruthie Bowles shares her story of being raped not once but twice during her time serving in the U.S. Army full-time. The first assault occurred at the hands of her then-boyfriend. The second time she was assaulted was the very day she came back from deployment.
Surviving a deployment, only to come home and be assaulted in her own private space, along with the previous assault, set Ruthie up for a long road of healing.
Between her first case never being resolved, leaving her to feel defeated and made to feel like a victim all over again, she never gave it a second thought to not report the second assault. Besides, she was higher ranking and, she had already learned, from her first experience, that the process of reporting was painful and yielded zero justice.
Ruthie shares how these experiences impacted her decisions moving forward, how she nearly lost the love of her life, and how her experiences influence how she parents her children.
There is something to learn for everyone in this episode. We discuss:
- Fight, Flight, & Freeze; you never know what you’ll do in a situation until you find yourself in it.
- Shame and sexual assault.
- The revictimization sexual assault victims are often subjected to after reporting – and even by well-meaning friends.
- Red flags in relationships.
- The mind-mess that happens when consent isn’t given.
- Her transition from military to civilian life after these experiences.
- Tips for how she began to heal.
- Things to look out for in friends who may have something they’re afraid to share, specifically a sexual assault.
- Military sexual assault stats.
- Why the phrase “boys are easier to raise than girls” drives her nuts and the one thing many parents of boys are probably missing when it comes to the “sex talk.”
Resources Mentioned/Worth Mentioning:
Need help?
Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area.
Connect with Ruthie:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Thank you for joining me on another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Ruthie Bowles. Welcome, Ruthie, thank you for being here.
Ruthie Bowles 00:11
Thank you, Victoria. I’m really happy to be here.
Victoria Volk 00:15
This is going to be a much-needed conversation around the military. And we’re both, we’re both service members, please share with us a little bit of your background and we’ll go from there.
Ruthie Bowles 00:33
Okay, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, yes, I am a veteran, I joined the US Army when I was 18. right out of high school, I traded a scholarship before I traded a scholarship for boot camp, basically, oh. And they got me because they didn’t get me but I was planning on going to school for cultural studies. I hadn’t picked my geographic region or culture of specialty ad just at that moment. But they told me like, hey, if learning languages and stuff is what you’re interested in, we have jobs for that. And I was like, Oh, really? That’s interesting. And they’re like, yeah, and you can get to go to the California language school Defense Language Institute in California, Monterey, beautiful Monterey, and you know, you get paid, you know, and that’s your work for the whole time that you’re there. And I was like, that sounds legit. And I don’t have to waste a bunch of time on useless classes, like more calculus, useless to me. I have yet to use high school calculus. And so yeah, so I joined right out of high school. And so I consider myself a very fortunate, I don’t want to say lucky, because that was my choice to join. But I’m very fortunate millennial in that I do not have any student loans, because I opted to join the military instead, you know, I went to California, I was in school for tech, or I was in Texas for school, and did some training Arizona, some training in Washington, DC, which was fantastic. And then I deployed to Afghanistan. I met my husband in Afghanistan, and we had a long-distance relationship for a while because he came back before I did, and my first duty station was Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and that was where I deployed from came back. I was stationed in Georgia, after that, and then stationed in Texas and ended up getting out because just a week before my husband was actually going to relocate to Maryland for a while for work. And then we were you know, I was planning on requesting a change of station and going there. Since I was coming from a training duty station, they typically give you your next assignment, and I hadn’t been assigned to Maryland yet. A week before he left I found out I was pregnant with our third child. And so I did the math. And I was like, ooh, so I already have two toddlers and then then I have the baby. And then I’d be here for more time by myself. Yeah, no, I’m not. I can’t do that. Like not especially not on a training base in Texas, right? No, neither of us has any family, no support, no nothing. So, um, I was like, Yeah, I can do that. So I separated and I became a stay at home mom for a while, then we decided to stay in Maryland. And we wanted to buy a house. So I went back to work as a federal contractor. The way we were set up in the company, because we were set up by language, I had no options for promotion or anything, really. And so that was incredibly disheartening as like the high achieving person that I am. So then I started to explore alternatives. And I started consulting on the side and marketing of all things, no experience there. But you know, that’s what the military taught me is, hey, you don’t know it. You can learn it. So that’s good. Yeah, yeah. Right. And so so that’s what I did. I learned it. And you know, as I got more results for clients, I got more clients. And then I was pregnant with my fourth child, and I use my maternity leave to quit my job and grow my business, you know, to a full time capacity in that three months, and that was in 2018. And here we are still going strong, full time. You know, things look a little different with Coronavirus and everything. But one of the driving parts in terms of what we’re talking about today, and when you look at that timeline is that when I got out of boot camp, basic training, and I was in California, I experienced my first sexual assault while I was in California on that training base, and it was somebody I was dating, but it was an incredibly unhealthy relationship. And he was very emotionally and mentally manipulative. Really good at gas lighting and you know, all of those things. And then the right after I got home from deployment, so I was a sergeant and At the time, and it was I experienced my second sexual assault, it was the day I got back that night, in my barracks room. And you know, it was completely like I didn’t, I barely knew this person is completely different scenarios, completely different situation. And so those two things, those two occurrences really had a serious impact on me, of course, as I built up to the, you know, going through the ranks and getting promoted, and then even like, on a personal level, my relationships, and then even some of the PTSD, I suffer now, which means some things happened while I was still serving in terms of like the PTSD symptoms that I experienced. But there were some that cropped up later, after I became a civilian, working in on a base where there were a lot of military members. So I know we’ll get into a lot of that stuff. But that is a big overview. I’m married. We live in Maryland, as I said, I’ve got three goats, 12, chickens, 10, ducks, and I have four children, three boys, and my youngest is a girl. So, we just, we’ve got a lot going on over here.
Victoria Volk 06:19
That’s awesome. Let’s go back then in time, to that first experience, because what many people may not think about a sexual assault within a relationship? Is that yes, you can be sexually assaulted in in a relationship? And because no, is no. And so, take us back to that time, and how that changed things for you moving forward.
Ruthie Bowles 06:46
Reflecting on it, I like at the time, like and anytime something horrible, like that happens you, you of course, like wish that it hadn’t, you know, because it’s horrible. But at the same time, as I mentioned, like the relationship was incredibly manipulative. He was my first relationship since I joined the military, I had a long distance like boyfriend from back home, and that didn’t you know, that didn’t pan out, imagine that. And, you know, coming right out of high school and being so young, and he kind of swooped in on the coattails of that emotionally, and was able to take advantage of me. And that that was like there was no alcohol involved. There was it was just I did not want to at that moment. And he did. And people talk about you know, and this and this stuff comes up all the time. And for anybody who’s listening, keep an eye on how you respond in on like Facebook and social media and stuff, because you are showing survivors who maybe are not comfortable sharing their story yet that they definitely can’t be comfortable with you. Because people always say things like, well, why didn’t you fight him? Why didn’t you ask for help? Why didn’t you scream, you said you were in the barracks? And the thing was, is that and thinking back, my brain could not comprehend what was happening to me. Because especially at that age, I think like you’re just so very much wrapped up in bad things happen to other people, and they don’t happen to me. And so, you know, there’s fight and there’s flight, but there’s also freeze. And that’s what happened to me. I just could not process what was happening to me while it was happening. And I just couldn’t believe it. And even while it was happening, there’s just so much shame fighting or running away would mean that other people would know and I definitely I definitely didn’t want that. And so, the big thing about that though, is that if that hadn’t happened, I might not have been able to break up with him when I did. And even right after like, just to give you an idea of how emotionally twisted this relationship was even right after he was acting upset and apologizing and I was comforting him while also trying to simultaneously get him out of my room. But once he was gone It was kind of like this magic spell at least that that part of it kind of evaporated and disappeared and I was like okay, yeah, I can’t I can’t be with him anymore. And he stalked me for months. After that, you know, I’m assuming just like kind of trying to like wait me out. And I hadn’t reported it. I hadn’t told anybody. Because again, it was just there was a lot of shame around it. But my best friend and roommate, we went out to see the Dark Knight movie in theaters while we were in California. And when I got back, we are just Hey, I remember I remember like so clearly are certain parts I remember so clearly. Like I barely remember the movie, but I remember getting back to my barracks room and taking off my purse and hanging it on my chair and my roommate and I talking about how good the movie was. I picked up my phone and it vibrated, and I remember looking at it flipping it because it was one of those slidy phones, I was very fancy slidy phone and looking at it, and seeing how was the movie. And it was from him. And I’m not talking to him at this point, like we’re not communicating. And so either one of his friends told him I was there, or he followed me there or something else like it was, it was just it caused me to freeze and chills and and so that was the I was like, Okay, I’m going to report it because he’s obviously not going to stop and this is getting even more dangerous and more scary. And so yeah, so the next day I reported it to a sergeant at my language school and you know, per the rules because I told and I that was the thing is like, I want this to be an unrestricted report because he shouldn’t be allowed to do this to me. So I made sure to tell somebody who was obligated to run it up as an unrestricted report versus telling somebody who was obligated to keep it restricted. And so I ran through the whole process that day I might have chosen to tell him that Sergeant earlier in the day if I had known that like it was going to kick everything off the way that it did. But you know, I got you know, ended up we have in the military, we’ve got a Sexual Assault Response coordinator, at least that’s what they were called at the time sark’s. And then I was also taken with that person, that woman, I was taken to the Criminal Investigative division, their office, the CIT office. And so he’s taking my statement, this officer, and you know, it’s been months now. And he’s like, okay, we don’t really have any evidence. I was like, Well, what if he confessed? And he’s like, would he do that? And I was like, if I call him right now, I think he would. He was like, well, we can record that. And yeah, and then we would use that. He was like, do you think you can do that? And I was like, he Yeah, yeah, cuz he’s been stalking me. And I don’t want to live like this anymore. And so, I’ve got the SARC person on one side, she was on my left side, on the long side of the table, and then the CIT officer was sitting on the short side of the table. And I put my phone on speakerphone, lay it on the table. He’s got a tape recorder right next to it, because we weren’t super fancy yet. And so, he had a tape recorder right next to it, and he’s on speakerphone. And so, I call him and you know, as like, Hey, I got your text message. And so he was just like, Yeah, I just really wanted to talk to you never respond. And so, I just thought that that would get you to respond. And you know, I’m just really sorry, and I just want to get back together. And I was like, but what you did was horrible. And he was like, I know, and I was He’s like, I know, and I should never have done it. I was like, so you admit it then? I was like, so you admit that you raped me that that day? And he was like, Yeah, he’s like I did. And I’m so sorry. And you know, I got off the phone with him. I wasn’t even really listening anymore after he said, after he confessed, and they went and picked him up. And so it seemed like it was in the bag in terms of closure and being over, you know, this part. And the SARC coordinator, she dropped me off back in my barracks room was telling me about all like, the, you know, they’ve got group therapy options, and, you know, I could do individual therapy. And you know, she would schedule me for medical testing, and all these things. And so she said, she would call me and she had some paperwork for me and everything. I was like, okay, and they and like, and then the CD had gone to pick them up. So they Okay, finally, this is over. And it was not, it was not over. I never heard from the SART coordinator ever again, like she disappeared in terms of how I understood things to be, there was never any group therapy or individual therapy or medical testing, which it turned out that I needed because he had given me chlamydia, which I didn’t find out until months later was picked up by ci D. But then, you know, he was released, like, you know, pending the investigation. And it was a few months later when I was getting ready to do my language testing and things so I could leave the language school. I mean, he did have a restraining order, which is hard on a small base. So yeah, so there was a restraining order, but he was pretty good at being present without breaking it. So I was typically the person who left any place where I saw him.
Victoria Volk 14:14
So he was still stalking you at the time?
Ruthie Bowles 14:18
On the way Yeah, yeah, just you know, kind of staying out of the bounds and things like that. And then when I get closer, it’s time for me to leave the jag. That’s our you know, our military judicial officer system. They came back and had my chain of command call me in and I was like, Oh, great. Somebody is about to tell me the results of the case. Great. No, that’s not what’s happening. They call me back in because ci D had stored my recording, which was basically my only piece of evidence as compelling as it was it was the only piece next to some sort of a track unit or air conditioning unit or whatever, that malfunctioned and destroyed. I tape as well as some other people’s thing. And so jag said they had to take my statement and get in all of its detail. And so I gave it again, not thinking and then, you know, it was just kind of, Okay, I took it. And then I just I just wanted to forget about it again, because I needed to go take this language test so I could graduate and it was actually around that time, because you’re doing processing to get off the base. So part of that is medical. So I did do testing and that was around the time as well that I found out that I had chlamydia. Thankfully, it wasn’t anything, you know, permanent. And I was able to, you know, get rid of it. It wasn’t until I moved on to my next duty station, where the jag office was headquartered for the two bases. It was at the next duty station. I walked past it every day, wondering like, Man, what happened, what happened? And then a few months, I had been in there and I started seeing some of his classmates show up. And I was like, what if I walk past him here? Like, nobody has told me what happened, like with my case. So, one day, I go to the jag office, go up to the appropriate floor, I sign in, and I end up in front of one of the same jag officers who took my second statement after my evidence was destroyed. And she was incredibly uncomfortable. And she was like, so nobody told you what happened with your case. Like somebody was supposed to tell you like, didn’t you get contacted by Sark? I’m like, no, I never heard from her ever again. The day after, like the day I reported that was last time I saw her so can you please just tell me and so she said she was incredibly uncomfortable. And so, she told me that because my evidence was destroyed. And all they had was my statement, the Air Force had opted to give him a letter of reprimand. So that was the other part where it was confusing was that it was a Joint Service incident. And so the Air Force was in charge of determining what his punishment was to be not the army. And so the Air Force decided probably based on the merits of the fact that he was such a great airman. Because he was, at least on the surface, right, he got a letter of reprimand. And so, I left the office feeling just like completely let down like I had wished that I had just let him continue to stalk me until we left because that whole process like because it was a unrestricted report, even while I was still at the language school, like there were people talking about me and all this other stuff. And because he was such a good airman on the outside, and he was very charismatic, had a ton of friends, like so then now all of his friends hate me. It was really bad. And I regretted reporting, for sure. So, when it happened the second time, like I was just like, no, y’all are not doing this to me again. And I’m a sergeant now. And I was assaulted by somebody who was one rank lower than me alcohol involved. And it was the day we got back from deployment, like I was in more danger in my own barracks room, then I was over there, they shot at us. That’s true. But the most damage that happened to me was right when I got back home. And so I definitely didn’t report that I was planning, you know, I was I just re enlisted, I was changing duty stations in a few months again, and I didn’t want to be held up there for this guy who had a lot, a lot of things in common in terms of him as a person, because he looked like a great soldier on the surface, he was engaged to somebody who lived across the hall from me, he was, you know, getting ready for promotion, you know, he looked the part of a good soldier. And I was like, yeah, I’m not going up against that again. So I did not report it. The second time, because of that, like that first experience taught me that nobody was going to help me, and that it was just going to be horrible for me.
Victoria Volk 18:27
Thank you for sharing, first of all, your story on that. And I’m curious too, and maybe the listeners were there warning signs for the first time?
Ruthie Bowles 18:42
I mean, just the whole relationship was bad, like, like he was really good at guilting me into things, and making it seem like any emotional hang ups that I had, were like hurting him. And I’m, I’m an incredibly empathetic person, I qualify as a highly sensitive person. And so I’m just I’m very sensitive to the emotions and what I perceive is the needs of other people. And especially at that age, I was very good at subjugating my own needs in favor of taking care of, you know, whoever I considered my people. Now this is fine. In reciprocal relationships where the other person is willing to do as much for you as you are for them. Whether it’s a romantic relationship or a relationship, like a friend relationship, like my best friend at the time, we’re still best friends, because we had that type of relationship where I would do anything for her, but she would also do anything for me. And that was fine. But when you’re that type of person where you will do anything for someone else and an empathetically, you’re so good at just reading body language and my facial expressions and, and things like that, like you pick up and try to take care of and satisfy whatever even if they haven’t said it, and they can hurt you almost as much as if they had, you know, actually struck a blow with a facial expression, or a shift in body language because you’re so in tune with the people around you. And so the whole relationship was a warning sign because he was that type of person to take advantage. The whole relationship was bad. But the thing is, is it looked great on the surface, like many things, it looked great on surf, you know, we looked like a good couple, we did all the right things, we went to the movies together, and we studied together, we went to go eat, and we like to dance like on the surface, things looked good. And so the only person who would have been privy to the warning signs probably would have been me, but I just I wasn’t aware. And because of the the huge culture shock to joining. And basic training, like you volunteer in the United States, you volunteer, but you’re still ripped away from everything, right? Like all the people, as long as you have a healthy home environment, all of the people who love you and your friends and everything that’s familiar, you’re ripped away and thrown into this thing. And and when I went through basic training, they still screamed in your face. Right, like, I remember crying the first day because like, like I could have been in college, and here I am getting dirty and dusty, and there’s dirt in my eyes, and I’m just crying into the dirt because I can’t do all these pushups that they want me to do, like, the culture shock was still happening even at the language school, it doesn’t wear off because you’re still adjusting. And then of course, having the relationship with the boyfriend back home go bad, coupled with all of those other things, I was just like, a quivering pile of vulnerability in a set of AC use the army combat uniform, at like just waiting for somebody to walk by and take advantage. You know, maybe that’s something that should be more readily considered, at least in terms of training soldiers, you know, probably very much like college students. But with a bit more extreme ness, you know, when compared with the college experience in terms of how you’re, you know, you’re you’re pulled in and how you’re broken down and built back up. I obviously was not built back up in some of the right places. You know, basic training is not necessarily meant to give you you know, emotional resilience and understanding, you know, how those types of things can happen to you in relationships. They don’t put those up on the quarterly slideshows.
Victoria Volk 22:35
Well, one thing too, the military doesn’t take into consideration. And I’ve spoken about this before on in other podcasts and things like that, but that they never really do a screening of what’s happened to you, what have you gone through in your life? What are your aces, you know, in, you know, your adverse childhood experiences? Because the more aces you have, the more susceptible you are, to having addiction issues, you’re more vulnerable to somebody to take advantage of you. When you haven’t processed any childhood trauma or anything like that. That’s one thing I wish that they would do for people who want to enlist in the military. So, thank you for bringing that point up. I think it’s very important. And for parents who are listening, and their kid wants to join the military take into consideration it isn’t for everybody. Would you agree? Like it’s not for everybody.
Ruthie Bowles 23:35
It’s not and then even just on the surface, when you look at the number of people who you know, would fail out, or what we would say whether they would recycle, they’d have to do it again, those are all those are all indicators. And just to be clear, I loved being a soldier. I loved it. And part of what I felt like my mission as a soldier was was to improve things so those types of things, at least happened less or stopped happening all together, I had decided that I was gonna I was going to retire I was going to be like that crunchy old Sergeant that people just didn’t understand why this person doesn’t just get out. I wanted to be that person because I wanted to be in long enough to incite real change and to help people and to try and affect some culture change. So for people who want to join or parents who have children who want to join I like I had the person I am right now I would not be without my experience. And my military experience overall was positive. It was like I like I said, if I if I hadn’t felt like I had to get out when I was pregnant with my third child, I would still be in but maybe instead I would be okay now. You know, Ruby’s Master Sergeant. bowls are something you know, I wanted to be a Command Sergeant Major. And I wanted to make serious changes within what we call the sexual harassment, Assault Response Program sharp, I wanted to be involved in making serious changes there. So just just to be clear, I do love the person that I am right now. And I again looking back like I can’t. Now I can’t say I wish those things hadn’t happened, because I’ve learned that I was strong enough to bear it. And now I’m in a position where I can talk with people like you openly about it, and hopefully, give some encouragement and energy and hope to people who aren’t yet at a point where they feel comfortable sharing when something like this happens, you feel incredibly alone, and there’s so much shame that you bear that is not your own. And that is the position I’m in now is that I can share. At a minimum, I can share and hope that somebody will hear it, who needs to hear it and gives them something, whatever they need whatever they can extract from my story, I hope that they extract it, and they can take what they need from it. And so that is the position I’m in now. And I’m just grateful that I was a strong enough person to be able to bear it and then move forward,
Victoria Volk 26:15
I would agree to like it, if it wouldn’t have been for my military experience, I wouldn’t be the person I am today, it was a very positive experience for me as well. I’m just saying for someone who’s gone through, you know, sexual trauma or things like that broken homes, for a lot of people, it’s a way out to join the military, because it’s a way out there escaping something. And so in those instances, and then you go on, you deploy and some people deploy time after time after time, and that’s where the mental health crisis within the military is what it is today. So all of it plays a factor and things that need to change and be addressed. And I think they’re, I think there’s strides being taken and doing so far. There was actually an episode of ABC 2020. I just watched this last weekend. I DVR it, DVR a lot of crime shows anyway, but it was about Vanessa again. And she was a I believe a private first class for a promotion, who had been being sexually harassed by a fellow soldier who was higher ranking than her I think a sergeant at the time and ended up being ultimately murdered by him because she was going to report it. And towards the end of the episode representative Jackie’s spire spear, I’m not sure how you say it. She’s the US House of Representatives in California, she had said, and I want to share the statistic because I think it’s important. She said that 20,000 service members are sexually assaulted every year, only 5000 of them will report it. And of the 5000 only 500 will go to a court martial. And only 250 of those 500 will actually be convicted. And she said what does that tell anyone who has been sexually assaulted? don’t report because you will not receive justice. And I think this is very similar. I mean, this story. And this was at Fort Hood, which has this story really opened a can of worms on it is happening at Fort Hood. There’s a huge internal and external investigation going on right now. But I think though that story is one of millions. And it’s not just the military, it’s just in general, I think in sexual assault, you don’t report because you’re scared because you’re intimidated by your offender or feel shame.
Ruthie Bowles 28:40
And her numbers in terms of who it’s happening to, like I would even question those, right? Because you can’t like we in the military, we’ve got the restricted and unrestricted reports. Right. But then you also have people who don’t report at all, right? Like my second, my second one was not counted. Why? Because I did not report it at all. And I lived in a military barracks, our floor was male and female, half the floor was female. So he just walked down the hallway, you know, um, and that’s just it is it is, what it is, at least in terms of how things were set up, and how vulnerable you know, a position we were in, but you can’t count people who don’t report, not necessarily so even that 20,000 like that’s an estimate. That’s an error, for sure. And I’m willing to bet that it’s worse because, you know, alcohol, you know, abuse and such runs rampant, especially when you look at the bases who deployed time and time again, that the base that I was on, where I deployed from they they were like 12 months on 12 months off. So they deployed pretty much every other year, and then they just plugged you back in. They’re like yeah, okay, you’re back now. Don’t crash your car, or that new motorcycle you just bought, which happens all the time.
Victoria Volk 29:52
Well, and you’re so young, right? Like you said, 18 like you don’t know yourself when you’re 18 I think some people we don’t I like, I don’t even think I really knew myself until oh, gosh, 35?
Ruthie Bowles 30:04
Yeah, I’m learning new things about me. It’s wonderful.
Victoria Volk 30:10
Yeah, so I think it’s just like, how can you possibly, it is there’s so much responsibility. First of all, I think that we have when we’re in the military when you wear the uniform, and there’s a different culture there for sure. Yeah. Um, how has this impacted you? Do you feel as a parent?
Ruthie Bowles 30:34
So, this, uh, my experiences, to be honest, any time and I mean, it’s not that anybody has a way of knowing that anytime somebody says that it’s easier to raise boys than it is to raise girls. Anytime somebody says that. I like whether I see it on Facebook, somebody says it out loud. I always reflect on my experiences. I don’t want to say that it’s like a trigger. Exactly. Because I don’t, at least not anymore. emotionally. I don’t like spiral necessarily. But I do. I am bit more vocal about it now. But I was a girl, right young woman who was sexually assaulted twice, I was sexually assaulted by two young men. I have three boys. And it was like, oh, you finally got your girl, you’re gonna have to watch out for her. And it’s like, that’s true. Like, you know, people talk about girls, you know, getting pregnant, but they get pregnant because they have sex with boys. You know? And it’s like, oh, if your girl goes out like what if something happens to her. More than likely if something happens to her and it’s of a sexual nature, it’s going to be by a boy. Boys are not easier to raise than girls. As much as I don’t want my daughter to go out and have something bad happened to her, I do not want my son’s to go out and be the bad thing that happens to somebody else’s daughter and so that is something that I always think about any time that comes up like Oh your boy mom, or at least when I was just just a boy mom, it was so easy. I always think of that and anybody who has sons like I think that should be a concern. You have to have those conversations with your children no matter their gender, or what they identify as because if it’s not openly stated, then they’re not going to know their options. Right? Like if something happens at a high school party or college or something and nothing was ever openly stated like hey, if this happens to you, this is what we’re going to go do and you know, we’ll talk about options after that but we at least want to make sure you go to the doctor and you know here are some warning signs that maybe somebody is following you or or anything like or talk to like so in my case it would be talking to for sure to my son’s and make sure like, Hey, don’t let peer pressure allow you to take advantage of somebody like that’s not okay, in fact, I better see you keep your friends from trying to take advantage of that person as well. Like it’s talking about the entire scenario, not just as if they have the potential for being a victim but also if they have the potential for being a perpetrator and what that looks like because as a culture, you know a dude and I’m you know, I’m using this as a stereotypical setup, because anybody can be sexually assaulted. But especially in the military, a dude, you know, hooking up with a girl who’s had too much to drink. That’s a high five moment, right?
Victoria Volk 33:20
College too, especially, right?
Ruthie Bowles 33:23
Yeah, notch on the bedpost, good for you, you got game, you know, ladies, man, that’s what that is. That’s how they see it. That’s how they’re taught to see it, it’s a display of their masculinity, when Instead, it should be viewed as, hey, you’re a perpetrator, you’re taking advantage of this person. That’s how they need to be taught. And so that is what I feel is my responsibility as a parent is to do that for my children not to talk to them, just as if they only have the potential to be victims. We’re human, there’s a duality in us for great good or for great evil and it’s my job. As a parent I feel to prepare my children for either to prepare them for the the fact that they may be in a position one day where no, they weren’t like following, you know, maybe some stranger from a bar or something. Maybe this is somebody that they go to class with or work with. So no, you weren’t like stalking them down the street and hiding in the shadows. But that is not what the vast majority of sexual assault perpetrators look like. They don’t look like somebody creeping in the shadows, they look like someone you know. Now we have to be more open and talking about that, especially as individuals in terms we have the power to either, you know, be somebody who’s standing steps up for people who are in a vulnerable position, or somebody who takes advantage of people in those vulnerable positions. So as a parent, it’s something I think about a lot, especially as I look at my kids and my oldest one is nine and my youngest one, she’s two and a half. And it’s something I think about a lot because I want to share my experiences with them not in such a way that it like scars them necessarily, but I often hold myself up as Hey, this could happen. And if you learn something from my story whether you know me or you’re my child and it’s intimate or, or you’re my brother or my sister because I have five siblings, whether whoever you are, if you take something from the story, then great. And that’s why I try so hard to openly share it. So even with my kids, it’s being very open about okay. She said she’d like so Evelyn, that’s my daughter. Sometimes she doesn’t want a hug. And the boys get sad. They’re like, Oh, I’m sad that she was 100 mins like, Okay, well give her a few minutes, you know, maybe you can ask her again. But she said no, right now. So you need to leave it alone. He’s like, Yeah, she gave me a hug a few minutes ago. I was okay, but she doesn’t want to give you a hug right now. So you need to leave her alone. And then like, usually, like 30 seconds later, I was like, Huh, you know, but you can’t force her. And it’s even to the same among the boys. Even when they’re playing. It’s like okay, well, you know, Cameron says he doesn’t want to play anymore right now. You can’t just keep roughhousing with him and he doesn’t want to play anymore. He said not to touch him anymore. But we were just playing. I don’t care. He said he doesn’t want play anymore.
Victoria Volk 36:00
No, is no.
Ruthie Bowles 36:01
No is no.
Victoria Volk 36:02
And if we don’t I absolutely I love that this came up because when you don’t instill that in your child when they’re young that knows no, and when I say no, it deserves to be respected.
Ruthie Bowles 36:15
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 36:16
That someone will stick up for me if someone isn’t listening, right? Well, he might advocate for me How do you ever learn to say no when you’re 16, 24, 35 whatever it is, right?
Ruthie Bowles 36:29
Whatever age, yeah. And that’s the big thing. And yeah, we just we have to make okay getting that consent like that is we need to make getting consent attractive.
Victoria Volk 36:40
Yep. I agree.
Ruthie Bowles 36:41
We’ll like having those types of discussions like and it’s all I think it’s probably a larger conversation, but it’s all shrouded in the general sense of shame we have regarding animals anything of a sexual nature right so if the very act itself even when it’s among consenting adults is shrouded in even a layer of shame. How like anything that comes after that just has additional shame. Like even and even for myself you know being you know in a relationship I’m married my experiences made it really hard to talk about you know, certain things you know, whatever it was that I was you know, interested in things that I like things that I didn’t like it made it hard to, to even even on the emotional side of the relationship to be comfortable with any type of confrontation, any type of confrontation, because if I like then I after the first time I went through this phase where it was like well if I don’t say no, then you can’t take it from me. Right whatever it is. If I don’t say no, you’re not taking it from me. But I mean if I if I give my consent 100% of the time even if I technically don’t want to I mean that that was an internal battle that I had to learn how to fight because I was mostly on my own but yeah, we have to make getting consent and having those types of conversations and incredibly attractive thing and as my kids get older it’ll be something that we talk about because you know just because you know our sexual activities are you know, private. I want to try and be as clear as possible in terms of the fact that it should not have any shame attached to it like we like we all go to the bathroom Yes, we shut the door, but is what you’re doing in there shameful. No, but we shut the door. And I just I want that to be a more clear distinction like just because I’m shutting the door doesn’t mean that it should be I should be embarrassed. And that’s something else I’m hoping to teach my kids as we have you know, those types of conversations around you know, anything related to sex.
Victoria Volk 38:43
I love that analogy. Thank you for sharing that.
Ruthie Bowles 38:45
You’re welcome.
Victoria Volk 38:46
And my son is 15 and then I have a 14 year old and almost 12 year old so yeah, I’m starting to navigate the teen years and I just remember how hard it is you know you just you start to remember and think back to when you’re a teenager and just how difficult those waters are to navigate and and again to like with my son it’s it’s showing him no this is not how you talk about girls. This is not how you refer to other two females or things like that, you know, having that conversation of of just respect. How do you show respect? Like what does respect look like towards the opposite sex and yeah, I think that’s huge too. I mean, it really comes down to respect.
Ruthie Bowles 39:37
Yeah, for sure. And just kind of normalizing it you know, and being very clear so you know, I mean, we’re careful even about like what the kids watch like if we’re not around and stuff like that, because there’s a lot that slid in under the radar. I realized now in terms of you know what I saw on TV or heard on the radio when I was growing up a lot slid under the radar. A lot And you know, so we have to, we have to keep an eye on that. I mean in nothing, no system, no person is perfect. We can’t it’s not this not about trying to keep them in a bubble necessarily, but my biggest thing is that if something happens, I want my kids to feel as if they can come back to me, if they’re in a situation, I want them to have heard me say how important consent is so many times that they can’t help but think about it in any situation that they’re in where it comes up. And, you know, and that’s, that’s, you know, that’s what I feel like I can be for my family, for my friends from my network is just, you know, oh, I don’t know anybody that this has happened to, it’s like, well, no, no, you know, me, you know, me and I can tell you with 1,000% certainty is mathematically improbable or impossible is that is that, you know, people, they’re just not comfortable sharing with you, but you know, them, and they are probably way closer than you think they are. They are probably way closer than you think they are. They could be your aunts; they could be your mom. It could be your dad or your grandparents your uncle’s like, it could be anybody. But because of that shame, they haven’t shared with you. And, and symptoms of what we go through pop up so far after. That was something I did want to say because I was so surprised when it came up. But when I became a federal contractor, I started experiencing anxiety any time I was alone with a service member, who was a man or identified as a man, who was, you know, had a man appearance, and they were in uniform, I started experiencing severe anxiety, if I ended up alone with them. And you’re thinking like, well, how would you end up alone with them, the place I used to work has a ton of elevators. And you might be surprised or not at the number of times, you would end up in an elevator with just two people, especially when you know traffic isn’t high. And if it wasn’t if it wasn’t just me and one other person who was me and like, you know, if it was like two soldiers or Airmen in the sailor or something, and they were in the elevator, I would have to get off the elevator. I could not stay in the elevator with them. Now it was fine for service members that I’d gotten to know that were maybe like that I worked with every day, I did not experience that anxiety with them. But I still felt a low-grade anxiety, you know, in terms of like being alone with them. But I think it happened because I no longer had what I considered my shield, which was my uniform with my name and rank on it. Because I was a staff sergeant when I got out, and I had cultivated this persona that was pretty rough shot and you know, would completely like snap on you before asking questions like don’t mess with her, she will kick in your teeth type of personality. And I cultivated on purpose because you don’t mess with the person who you think is gonna kick you in the face. No, wait, I cultivated that personality on purpose and my uniform. And I didn’t realize how much how much I had used my uniform as a shield. But I did. And so when I went back to working in an environment with servicemembers, and I was in civilian clothes, I felt like and I often feel this way about my civilian clothes, particularly if I’m on when when we went to events if I was on my way home from an evening event, and I was in the dark when I was at work and you know, ended up in those situations. My civilian clothes felt like a trap. They felt like some sort of flag that said I was prey. And that’s something I’ve had to wrestle with, especially now as an entrepreneur and I would attend events in the evening, I would ask, you know, people to walk me to my car, because I was like I’m wearing a dress right now, which seemed like a really good idea. But now it just feels like it’s like hey, come get me. Here I am. And it saddens me to hear that but that is a new development as my life has changed. And my experience color my experiences color my perception of of, you know, my day to day, because I never used to feel that way when I was dressed in civilian clothes when I was a service member. But now that I civilian clothes, or what I wear all the time, that is something that I you know, I started going through and so being an entrepreneur now I don’t really have to worry about running into service members. But that is something I reflect on as in my time as a federal contractor like I being in an elevator with a service member was something I could not tolerate if I did not know them. And there were two parts of me one side of my brain is like that’s pretty horrible, that there’s a part of you that just assumes that this person could attack you. There’s like That’s true, but I also didn’t think the two people who actually did attack me would know, so I just get off the elevator. And I, I’m not sure how else things will pop up. But, you know, I’m actually going through the process right now of filing a VA claim. So, we will see in terms of how they’re able to evaluate my PTSD and anxiety and things, what will come from that. And because this is a newer experience for me, I’ve never gone through the VA claims process before. I am not as positive like I’m not experiencing as much positive energy regarding it. Because with this specific occurrence, and the subsequent things that have happened, since I’ve been taught over and over that the system is not to be relied on the system is not to be trusted. And so while I want this to work out, I want the VA to look at me. And I guess that’s the problem is I want the VA to look at me and acknowledge you went through these things. And they were horrible, and you’re suffering as a result of these things. And so we will be able to, you know, give you these benefits, whatever they are. The fear, of course, is that it’ll be just like, what happened to 19 year old me? And it will be, yeah, no, that’s not bad enough.
Victoria Volk 46:19
Like a victimization again?
Ruthie Bowles 46:21
Right. Like or did that even happen? Like did it happen the way that you remember it. Because this this here? This doesn’t sound very bad at all.
Victoria Volk 46:29
Well, look how much time has passed?
Ruthie Bowles 46:32
Yeah, yeah, like I got out in 2015. So it’s like, well, why didn’t you file then? Even though there’s no statute of limitations on when you can file your VA claim? FYI. So yeah, so it’s just so we’ll see what happens. But my my fear now is that of course, the the process will dig deep into my case, my reported case, at least, and come up with nothing, right? Like, I never saw the SARC person again, I never heard from CIT. There was a letter of reprimand, which probably got lost somewhere, I am afraid that they will have nothing to find.
Victoria Volk 47:05
I thought of a question. And I actually thought of it too, as I watched that ABC special but being in the military, I don’t even know the answer to this. Maybe you do. But what would have stopped you from reporting him as like on the civilian side? Like, could you it not have been? Like, is there something to it that the military is almost like its own institution in that way, when it comes to criminal acts? Like why is it that you couldn’t have reported the first incident to your local police department versus going through the military chain?
Ruthie Bowles 47:43
I think the military ends up with jurisdiction, I think, at least that’s the way it’s kind of always that I’ve always understood it. And that could be accidental or purposeful, misunderstanding that was, you know, cultivated during my time in, but it’s my understanding, because we have our own, technically, we have our own, you know, law type structure, that unless you go out and do something like, like a soldier who’s out there, you know, drinking and driving, yeah, they’re getting arrested. They’re getting arrested. And I mean, it’s incredibly likely, though, that if a chain of command is like, hey, police department, we’re actually going to give them to the MPs. And I know that most civilians feel like our military, police, and structure and our law and stuff is actually more harsh than there. So, they probably happily hand them over. But you know, if you’re out on the town, and you’re speeding, you will get a regular person ticket, you know, but if you’re on base, you will get a ticket from the police on base. So I think that if what I had gone through had been perpetrated by civilians that probably would have exclusive like that would have immediately been under the civilian police, because yes, I’m a soldier, but the perpetrator, right is, and then vice versa, if the perpetrator is military, and the victim, the survivor is civilian, then that again, that again, probably becomes a question of jurisdiction. But the civilian police would certainly be involved, whether they work things out, you know, with the military side or not, but we were both service members. Now again, I could be wrong. But one of the things I teach you though, is like that faith in the military, that faith in the system, filing some type of complaint or report to the local PD, never even crossed my mind. And once everything, you know, it was over, I just, I was tired. I was tired, and I was let down and I wanted to forget it as much as was possible. But it’s not it’s not possible. There are days I go without thinking about it. That’s true now, but I’m never going to forget it. It’s never not going to happen. impact on me, the one thing I can say is that as time goes on, I’ve been changing the type of impact that it has on me. So, it does not damage me to talk about it with you. It is not damaged me to talk about it with anybody, I may feel a little withdrawn later. So, I may curl up with like a book or something, just to kind of emotionally unplug a little bit. But when I was still serving, and we had our quarterly sexual harassment and assault training, like the programs that they would put us through in terms of like the the training, I would be emotionally upset for like a day or two, I would, I would, I would warn my husband ahead of time, I’d be like, hey, we’re doing sharp training today. And he’s like, okay, okay, and he would know, I would come home, like I just I would need to eat, I would not want to talk because I would just get so angry. I get so angry at those on every slide that went by, they would do this. And I’m like, yeah, so nobody can help us Screw you, too, you know. So it just made me so mad sitting through those trainings. Like I just, I can’t like I can’t believe you guys made me sit through this, because you’re just lying. Like, I would just get so mad. And I was very angry about it and hurt. And that doesn’t happen anymore. And I think it’s because I’ve started to, I started to view my experience not as something, I don’t view it as something that happened to me anymore. So much as I view it as something that I can use to help other people just in the telling of it. And once I started viewing it that way, and it’s now a teaching tool, as horrible as it was. It’s a teaching tool now. And so it hurts me, it doesn’t hurt me at all, to share it. And then I just need some time to kind of like emotionally recharge.
Victoria Volk 51:42
What is one thing that you found most unhelpful to you, as you’re going through, as it as it really kind of came to a head in your life? Both of those experiences?
Ruthie Bowles 51:56
The thing that was definitely the most unhelpful was trying to figure out what I could have done differently. I’m a big believer in, you know, taking ownership and responsibility for things. And so, I was raised that way, but I was applying it wrong. I was trying to figure out how I could have changed what happened to me not including, in my analysis, that I had absolutely no control over their choices. I had no control over them, what they thought what they felt what they decided to do, I had no control over that. And I kept plaguing myself with that question. The same question that other people well, what were you wearing? And all these things, right? Like, what could you have done to keep yourself from being assaulted? Like, what could I have done? Especially the second time because it was like, I just I just let an F bomb go. I was about to drop one. But it was like, What the heck, like a second time Really? Like, what are you doing? What are you doing that it would happen to you a second time those types of questions were incredibly unhelpful, they did a lot of damage as well, because it just mentally turns and turns and turns? I had no control over them. And what they chose to do, I only had control over me. So as a result, like those experiences definitely influenced choices I made after, right. But those are the only things that I could control. And then you know, I had to be a little careful of going too far to the left in terms of reacting too far left or right in terms of reacting as a result of that. And that was you know, that was another struggle that I had as I grew older and was able to view those experiences in a different light.
Victoria Volk 53:50
And help that shame fade away with more empowerment, right?
Ruthie Bowles 53:55
Yes, yes.
Victoria Volk 53:56
What is one tip that you would give someone listening today who has been sexually assaulted in military or otherwise?
Ruthie Bowles 54:05
So, I know that it’s not necessarily for everybody in terms of the way that I’ve shared my story. But I did not start out sharing my story in interviews and things like that. I started out, sharing just the one sentence with a friend, my best friend who was with me the day that I went and saw that movie. And I told her, I was like, you know, that person? She’s like, yeah, so he raped me. And that was all I shared. At first, it was just the one sentence of course, the other thing that you can control in that instance, is that you want to be careful about who you share it with. Because what you want is somebody who is open to listen and receive your story and not somebody who’s immediately going to interview and quiz you. Like I think after I shared it with you the first time, we just had a cup of tea you know, because that’s just the way We were, but they’re even like I said, like it’s not it’s not about getting on and interviews and things like that like that is the way that I’ve chosen to use my story. But if you can share it with somebody and receive maybe some of the compassion that you haven’t been able to extend to yourself. That was something that helped me a lot initially, because I felt like I was able to tell somebody, and unlike the army, and unlike that guy’s friends and stuff, that was somebody who completely validated what I had experienced. And I felt safe and comfortable. And that like being able to do that is probably a huge reason why I’m able to be vulnerable at all, versus, you know, completely shutting down and not being able to even have healthy relationships.
Victoria Volk 55:54
Grief recovery, we call those special people in our lives a heart with ears.
Ruthie Bowles 55:58
Oh, that’s amazing.
Victoria Volk 55:59
Yeah, someone who won’t criticize, analyze, or judge and can just sit with you. Yeah, I love that, that you said that you just had a cup of tea. I love that, that she was there for you, for you in that time. So, ways that others supported you that you found most helpful. You just kind of mentioned, you know, your friend that just sat with you. What are other things that you can think of to share that might be helpful? You know, I? How about your husband, your husband supported you and your immediate family? How about that?
Ruthie Bowles 56:34
So, in terms of my husband, that is actually that was a close one. Because after the second time, the second assault, you know, I was home, and he asked me to marry him. We were just dating at the time. And he asked me to marry him. And I said, yes. But that second time was so new, and there was a lot just kind of shrouded in mystery. And I hadn’t told him because I was afraid. Because being in the culture, I felt like it was very easy for him to either see it my way, or be like, no, you cheated on me. Like there’s alcohol involved and whatever. And he demonstrated the power that somebody else could have if they have enough knowledge to help you. Because we, we almost broke up. Like after he asked me to marry him. We almost broke up because of the way that I was behaving and stuff. He was positive. He was like, you’re not, you’re not on board with this the way that I’m on board with this. Something’s going on. There’s something you’re not telling me. And I’m like, no, of course, I’m lying. Like, no, you There’s nothing I’m keeping from you. It’s fine. And he’s like, why are you acting like this? And I’m like, it’s fine. That was not fine. And I think he was probably like, a hair’s breadth away from being like, look, we’re not, we’re not getting married. We’re not together, like, I don’t know what you’re doing. But I can’t do this anymore. And we were in a hotel room, because we were in Virginia visiting with my grandparents, we were sitting in bed, he had gone through my phone and found something I can’t remember. And he’s like, what is going on? And I sat there, and I just knew I was like, if I say that nothing’s happening, and everything’s fine. One more time, he’s gonna leave am I okay with him leaving. And I just I was not okay with that. And so, I just I it was a short synopsis. Very short, just told him you know, the day that we got back from Afghanistan, one of the soldiers in the barracks he came into my room after I’d had a couple of wine coolers that I weigh overestimated my tolerance for being just freshly back from Afghanistan and he raped me and then I got up without another word and went into the shower because my skin was crawling and I came out and he was still just sitting on the bed looking devastated and then we just laid there for a while. And it was it was still hard after that right because I still had a lot of things you know to work through. And I mean, he’s four years older than me so I mean I was young and he was a little bit older but not that much older and I don’t think it really matters what age you are when somebody tells you something like that it’s still very shocking, but we were able to move on after that, you know, and he knew like what I didn’t like I didn’t give them the nitty gritty details or anything at that time because I wasn’t capable of sharing that yet but over time, I was able to just you know, kind of reveal everything and share it with him and and just explain everything that happened you know, he you know, because one of the things that happened was I got new friends, right as soon as we got back and we were long distance, he’s like, Who are these people? You know, and they were people I felt safe with this what it was and so that was part of it. And so yeah, so it’s just it was he was incredibly supportive and and you know, in terms of like our relationship he got really good at looking for when I was hiding my wants and needs. And he would push me and be like, no, come on, what do you really want here? Like what what he’s really like I can tell there’s something bothering you just go ahead and tell me like don’t he’s like I’ll if you want to leave it alone for right now we can leave it alone, and we’ll talk about it later. But we do you need to talk about it, you know, so you got good at seeing when I was hiding, because I got good at that. And that was just really important for our relationship and for our family. Because the depth of our relationship now is completely different and just deeper than it was, you know, in the beginning. And I think that that is something that I needed, right? Like I have one person in the whole world that I can be that deep with. And I could be that vulnerable with to share every detail and everything. And that was something that I needed, that I think unconsciously, I didn’t even realize it but I thought that I was never going to be able to have.
Victoria Volk 1:01:02
So, my question to now is when you weren’t talking about it? What were some of the characteristics? So let’s say you’re in a friendship, let’s say I have a friend or my friend group or whatever. And what are some characteristics of someone who has been assaulted? Like what are some characteristics that you would think someone would exhibit who has been sexually assaulted that someone like, you know, if you’re not feeling like talking about it, sometimes you just want someone to ask you what’s wrong, or you know what’s going on or?
Ruthie Bowles 1:01:36
So, some people think, like, so one of the big ones, especially when I after the first one, and I was so much younger, you know, it’s 1920 ish 1819 was when it happened. And so, it rippled through my early 20s. And I arguably the second one happened still in my early 20s. So just was not a very good late teens, early 20s. For me, so a lot of people think that if you are sexually assaulted, then you would not want to have sex at all anymore. Right? And that is actually not necessarily true for everyone. For myself, at least after that happened, and there was probably like a refractory period where I was just like, this is all overwhelming. I don’t want to, like everybody get away from me. Once I got to the new duty station. I, I was at that duty station for like six months. And I think I must have had like, I mean, for me, it was a lot. But it was probably like, five guys that I dated in sequential order, not concurrently, but like I dated. And because we were dating, like, as soon as they were like, yeah, you want to go to Home Base. It was I was in that position where I was like, well, if I say yes, then they can’t take it. So, I said Yes, right. I think that was something my roommate picked up on was kind of like, hey, not judging Exactly. But your patterns of behavior are a bit different than they used to be, like, the whole time I was at the language school, which was like a year, I was with my boyfriend long distance, and then that one guy, and then we get to a new base, and I’m running through them, like water. So, it’s very serious change in behavior. And the reason why, like I said was if I if I’m not saying no, then you can’t take it. And then it also kind of having them as like, you know, dating them. And then you know, being boyfriends or whatever, it kind of helped protect me in terms of I could always say, well, I have a boyfriend, I have a boyfriend, instead of saying, actually I just don’t like you, and then having somebody get offended and then you know, attack me or something later changes in behavior, probably a pretty big one. And then to be honest gaslighting, like, if you’re sensing that there’s a change in behavior, or a change in attitude or something with somebody, and they’re insisting that you’re crazy for it. There’s probably something going on, because I was good at that, too. I mean, I had a very horrible, good teacher. But you know, people would be like, Oh, you’re acting really different. Are you okay? And I’m like, I’m fine. You’ve been acting different though. You just completely turn it around, like, or maybe not even gaslighting, but you bring up them and then they ask you about something about you like maybe last week you were complaining about your boyfriend or your girlfriend, and then you ask about them. And they’re like, no, yeah, I’m totally fine. But what was going on with, you know, you and Stacey or you know, you and john, like what happened? And then now all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, yeah, that happened. And you’re completely distracted now. So they become really good at misdirection. And so, if you are worried about somebody, you’re going to have to be gentle, but focused, you’re gonna have to be gentle, but focus, and you’re also going to have to realize that it may take you more than one try, because that’s the other thing like are you just just testing me? Like, are you just trying or like, are you in it to win it? Are you actually in this with me? Are you ready to hear what it is? That I could tell you if I choose to? Now if you’re just like, oh, are you okay? And then you believe me when I say that I’m fine. Okay, well, you obviously weren’t ready to hear it. But I mean, in a way, that’s kind of what happened with my husband when we were engaged, right? Like he kept insisting something was wrong. And I was like, No, you’re not ready for this, you’re not ready for this. And so I just kept insisting, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and he kept trying, and then it just reached a point where I was not okay with him walking away, because he had tried so many times. And that, you know, it was just that I was afraid of telling him. So, it got to a point where I was positive, he was gonna walk away. Either he was gonna walk away, because I didn’t tell him, or he was gonna walk away, because he didn’t believe man. In such case, I probably shouldn’t be with him, or he was going to hear what I had to say. And he was going to believe me. So, in those three scenarios, two of them, he was walking away anyway. So at that point, I’d reached a point where I just felt like I didn’t really have much left to lose in terms of him and that our relationship, but that’s, that’s the big thing, you want to be gentle, but you want to be focused, because your first attempts at trying to get them to confide in you will probably fail, they will probably fail unless you catch them at just the right moment. But if they’ve had time to kind of fortify and that shame to kind of, you know, weave into their barriers and things, it’s probably going to take you more than one one try. And it’s not a reflection on how much they like you or love you or anything like that. But you are literally wrestling with this monster, and you just can’t do anything else. Like I don’t have, I don’t have the space to trust you right now. Because I am wrestling with this inside of me. And you know, you’re going to have to knock on this door more than once. Because I’m fighting so hard here. And I’m exhausted. And you know, the first few times that you try, I just can’t open that door, I can’t do it. Because how do I know you’re not going to come inside and transform into another monster that I have to deal with? I have to now then I have to wrestle with the assault and your rejection, you know, and you saying that it was my fault, or I could have worn something else or not gone out that late that I have to wrestle with both of those things. So that’s why I think sometimes it takes more than one try. Like you would think if you’ve never gone through anything traumatic like that, that’s so tied up in the shame as well. You would think Well, why don’t you just tell me you tell me everything. It’s like, well, I’ve never had anything like this to tell you before. So, you got to be gentle, you got to be focused, and you just got to be in it for the long haul. Because I’m telling you is definitely not like that might be one of the hardest things that you are able to do initially in terms of getting them to confide in you. But the battle, you know, isn’t over for that person.
Victoria Volk 1:07:49
That’s grief that never goes away. It just changes.
Ruthie Bowles 1:07:51
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:07:52
And so and and with Grievers, you know, just this is what we say to like, if you want to be a heart with ears, you just show your support. Let them know you’re there. And when they’re ready. You’ll know they’ll let you know, right?
Ruthie Bowles 1:08:11
Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:08:12
Thank you so much, Ruthie, is there anything else that you would like to share today?
Ruthie Bowles 1:08:17
I just want to say thank you for, you know, building the platform that you’ve built. The topics that you touch on that you dive deep on here are not topics that people consider for everyday consumption. But but they are topics that some that somebody somewhere is going through every day, you know, and, you know, this is one piece of the story that I’ve shared. But we all go through a variety of different things. And this experience does not define my identity by any stretch of the imagination. But it does help so much to share. And I know that you’re helping a lot of people by addressing these topics that people are like, Oh, that’s not polite conversation, or that’s too heavy. It’s like okay, well this is something that we’re walking around with every day you are surrounded by people who have things that are too heavy every day. So just thank you so much for opening the floor for you know these types of conversations.
Victoria Volk 1:09:25
Thank you for sharing that with me, means a lot. Yeah, my why’s is pretty big for this podcast, so but it’s because of beautiful souls like you who are willing to share your story and I’m just being a heart with ears. and hoping that the messages that the hurting hearts share with others bring hope. There is hope there’s hope to have a beautiful life of a beautiful marriage, children, all the good things that life can give us right?
Ruthie Bowles 1:09:56
Absolutely.
Victoria Volk 1:09:57
Thank you so much again, Ruthie. If people want Want to reach out to you? Where can they find you?
Ruthie Bowles 1:10:01
Looking me up on social media is probably a good place to start Ruthie Bowles, in terms of what I do professionally, defythestatus quo.com if you’re in search of any personal branding and marketing information, but yeah, those are probably the best places to reach me. I am very easily found. A Google search will actually also help you find me very easily.
Victoria Volk 1:10:29
Awesome and I’ll put the information in the show notes as well. Thank you, listeners, for tuning into Ruthie story today. I hope it helps you or someone you love. Until next time, take care much love. And when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Mental Health, Suicide |
Quandell Wright | The Scars of Abuse, Poverty, and Shame
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
The odds were stacked from the get-go for Quandell. He grew up on the poor side of Detroit, Michigan, falling into gang activity, and, although he never used drugs, his life trajectory was greatly impacted by his decisions.
He became a father at age 16 and again at age 19. Having never dealt with his past experiences, after a 3rd suicide attempt, he found himself admitted into a psychiatric hospital. And that’s when his life turned around. He learned where he was responsible for everything in his life and discovered a new meaning of success for himself in the process.
Follow Quandell’s journey, through his own words, from self-hatred to self-love, from acceptance to forgiveness, and how he is creating ripples in other people’s lives through his clothing line and support of others in his community today. He shares tools that helped him and the one piece of advice that changed his whole perspective of his unforeseen future.
Quandell’s story starts pretty heavy, but the mood quickly lightens when he begins to talk about his son and the pride he feels for him. Quandell shares his perspective on parenting from growing up as a teen parent and the lessons he gleaned from his own experience.
The interview concludes with Quandell’s book recommendations for life and business, and one final piece of advice the world could definitely practice more of – even behind the masks.
I was reminded of a piece of advice shared in Netflix’s series “Cobra Kai” that Mr. Laruso received in the latest season: “Put good into the world and, good returns back to you.” (If you loved the “Karate Kid” movies, you’ll love this series! Even if you didn’t see them all, it doesn’t matter. It goes back to specific moments in previous movies and is wittingly written.)
Resources/Quandell’s Book Recommendations:
Connect with Quandell:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Welcome to another podcast episode of grieving voices. Thank you so much for being here. My guest today is Quandell Wright. Welcome Quandell, thank you so much for being on my podcast today. Let us get to know you a bit. Share your story?
Quandell Wright 00:21
Yeah, so yeah, my name is Quandell Wright. I’m currently I’m a fashion designer from Detroit, Michigan. I have a brand by the name of William Pullman. I’m always at the home at the end but it’s William Palmer. I’m grubbing born and raised in Detroit Michigan. I lived in Georgia for a little bit with my mom maybe from the age of five and six we stayed in Columbus Georgia for maybe like a year and a half until my grandmother got sick, and we moved back so just a little bit back and forth. But yeah, right now like I’m I’m I’m 30 I’m married have children and every day life issues like everyone else so nothing too special. But um yeah you know I’m very hardworking dedicated to my my craft and my vision and everything like that. So, they’re just a little bit of behind the scenes of who I am just for briefly.
Victoria Volk 01:16
So how did the clothing line come to be?
Quandell Wright 01:19
When I was eight years old, I always loved clothes like fashion was like, it’s always been like
this big thing to me always love clothes. I love how you could just put it together and how people look at you and just admire your dress like clothes. It’s always been like everything to me. So, when I was eight, I started sketching clothes and shoes. It was mainly shoes I always design my own shoes all the time. And my mom I believe she still have some of those sketches hopefully. I think she did say she said I have some but um, that’s what I always wanted to be a fashion designer make clothes and my own clothes dress the best be the best. But unfortunately, growing up in Detroit, single parent home, you know, that wasn’t always the case that happened like the newest gear. And I got bullied a lot. But I always told myself like, you know, I’m gonna make my own clothes. And I told people I would make my own clothes. Of course, they laughed about it and things like that, but it actually happened. So, I officially started William Palmer 2017 I started off with 12 t shirts. With no sense of knowledge at all, like, I do. Just get out here. And people start to buy a little bit, but then I just kept coming back creative, killing them each time and 2018 I started I got into the store called elbasan elbasan His name is Bassam. He’s the owner elbasan one of the most popular coat designers in the Michigan region. He’s actually he’s located in Dearborn but the leather coats and the fur hood and man like everybody wanted to elbasan coming up in middle school high school like that was like the biggest thing to have like I need an owl whoo that’s what we called an owl and all of you had it we most definitely thought he was rich so everyone else was everything but he gave me some some some great advice about how to start and how he started and he gave me my first opportunity like the year later because I ended up getting better at what I was doing. And again, better like resources, my connections got better so he was like hey, I’m ready to get into the story ready to give it a shot? I was like what? And I was like yeah, let’s go and I ended up putting like 50 t shirts in this store and it’s sold out after like a couple months, but it did good in there. It did really good. And my name started to buzz a little bit but um yeah William Palmer my desk is named after my grandfather. My grandfather’s name is William right. But my grandfather was a designer himself he was a tailor he may suits for like the first and he made like suits for like the pastors and the First Lady’s and the churches and stuff like that in in Flint, Michigan. He also made accessories handmade accessories as well. So, like leather wallets, clutch purchase, and the big church hats and things like that. So that’s what he did on the side. And I found that out maybe last year, and it’s crazy. I didn’t know that the whole time. He never liked Oh, love it or anything like that. But my uncle ended up telling me like yeah, you know, your granddad this way. That’s what he did. And he used to make my clothes because he couldn’t afford the stuff I wanted. So, he made me my clothes. I knew I took it for granted. You know, he didn’t really like it as much and you I should have learned how to do it myself. But I just wasn’t into it. You know, I just took a different path. But he but he would have loved like what you’re doing right now. Oh my god, like he wouldn’t put his whole life savings into you know, like, this is it but polymer came from a friend of mines named Dorian. I was in class I was just sketching a very good handwriting. I was writing William right over and over again a different, like, cursive fonts. And he was like, What is that? I was like, Oh, it’s a clothing line. He was like looking right, almost like yeah, that was gonna be the original name for it. And he was like, Oh, that sounds cool. Oh, yeah, you know, and I was like, so how about William Palmer? And I’m like, oh that sounds nicer like that. That’s kind of you know, that hit the spot. And I was like, who was Palmer? Well Palmer is the last name of his grandfather. So I just took the first name of my grandfather and the last name his grandfather and put it to put the two together and so I came over William Palmer so yeah it’s a it’s a it’s a great beginning story but it’s a start it’s a start but that’s I was born and I just took it from there and just kept trying and trying to learn when I can to get where I want to go I’m still here today still moving forward. So yeah,
Victoria Volk 05:57
When that dream was first, when you first felt it when you were a child what happened in between?
Quandell Wright 06:04
Um, you know growing you know, growing up in Detroit or growing up in any urban area that’s less fortunate for property you know, you either do one or two things you just you stay at it. Or you just venture off into other things that you think that’s going to help you get to where you want to be in life so like growing up on the east side of Detroit where I’m from like the drug dealers like the dope dealers was like the celebrities you know they had you know the best cars and they had the jury they had the money and whatever clothes clothes you know, whatever we admired that’s what they had it was our rock stars that’s what we looked up to but it wasn’t no that was the motivation you know we didn’t have I had let me see we didn’t have like the LeBron James from the hood that made it that came back to show you how to do it and be a mentor like you didn’t have to so I grew up into I always had that dream but I feel like the area the hood is what took me under instead you know so I wanted to get money quicker I wanted to make fast money I wanted to be successful like right now and that was my plan so got into like maybe at the end of middle school I actually um we started with I started music don’t rap so that was cool. But it grew into some deeper and more darker than that so went into some It was called like SWAT that was our group name and when we got into like high school it became like a gang it was misinterpreted and now we got rifles and now we carry in guns and now we you know so now is now we live in the life that we are leaving Where do you want to live for real but me and this is what it is every day you know so we’ve seen things so we actually copying this stuff I was carrying a gun at the age of maybe like 15.
Victoria Volk 08:00
I have a question would you say that like you had this you guys as a group, did you develop this persona? and then you almost are this identity and I’m you almost,
Quandell Wright 08:10
I believe so because you know we surrounded by everybody that want to be this this tough guy right so everybody want to be a tough guy everybody want to make more money we’re not really in high school focusing on high school you know we like hey look we get money you know we got to do this I got big homies over here they you know I work for them you know I typically really didn’t dip and dive into like the drug dealers and stuff like that, but I was around friends that did. So, when you are around people like that, that’s the energy you bring onto yourself. So, I’m around the wrong crowd. I’m fighting in school every day. Almost every week we get into gang fights we fight in it wasn’t really safe to go anywhere because now not only that we get into fights in the hood it’s after school because now it’s boundaries. So if you live behind cateran high school that people that stayed in front Academy in high school they knew they weren’t allowed to come behind categorizable you know it was just like and he was supposed to go over there and make territory and they come over here and across the bridge this way seven mile seven mile bloods the red zone is just crazy is it’s a lot so age limit on me anything if you in something like that, you know like if you weren’t if you represent in the street, a neighborhood you grown enough to get whatever is coming for you. And that’s the life that we are you know, we live in and out. And yeah, I wasn’t I wasn’t I wouldn’t say like I don’t know how deep I was or how deep I was, but I knew I was a mess. You know, I was in situations I was supposed to be in because I wanted to leave home early. You know and things like that. Like my mom wasn’t like No, no. Okay, and I’m like that, like she worked hard. She had three boys. She did her best. While I was in a rush of being successful because I took her pain and made it my pain as well. I will like to get out here to make some money. Maybe I could rap. Maybe we can use If we could do this, I can take care of my house so I’m gonna take care of my mom and that’s fine with that. But it was just very misunderstood and that’s what led up to like a lot of more other things like having kids and early childhood be growing which is a domino effect of the wrong term in my life we’ve just been going into spirals until I was able to realize and take accountability for my actions and forgive myself and start off fresh You know, I think that’s most important but yeah, you know, when you’re dealing with something like that it’s kind of hard to pinpoint the problem I don’t want to blame the system I don’t really I don’t really know I just know is that you know growing up in poverty you always just trying to find a quick way out and you don’t have the guidance what the right mentors around you want to take the wrong you want to take the wrong route every time because you’re just thinking maybe this is real quick I can just make this real quick and be done with it but you don’t never end that way. And never does he just get yourself deeper and deeper and deeper into situations that you can’t get out of. And I believe that’s what’s going on and a lot of like neighborhoods this you know that’s in property they don’t have you know, like you could come here now I’m quite sure you have urban neighborhoods like you can see like there’s no improvements there’s no there’s nobody successful as going back and really trying to create community rehab but how can we start with the kids Well, how can we start this we need to know this rehab for everyone in the community, this province like there’s none of that none of that is happening and I feel like that’s the problem that’s one of the main issues and I think cycling never stopped to somebody like step up and actually like get into the mix and really do it you know stop being apologetic about anything really get in there and just really see what’s going on you know why LeBron James like you know building that school I feel like he was like one of the the people that should go back to where he came from he got into the middle of it like yo I can build this I can create jobs for parents I can create you know transportation for the kids so there’s no excuses I got mentorship programs, scholarships, you know, so he found a way to try to like break that cycle of feeling like there’s no hope in areas because they feel like there’s no hope I can take that now like I talked to young kids all the time and he’s like, Man, this is what I do is no nobody comes to look out for us. I don’t know what to do and they really don’t know what to do so yeah.
Victoria Volk 12:31
I just got goosebumps. Is that like one of your huge motivators now in to get your clothing line really going is to be able to give back in that way?
Quandell Wright 12:42
Yeah, that is it is um you know, I talked to Rena you know, and when I told her like, just a kid I always felt I know like I knew like I know my mom like I knew she always like loved me and things like that. But I believe her raising boys she felt like she had to be like tough all the time. You know like like this because you don’t really know like you don’t have the father the father around to help out to be the father. So when single mothers especially raising boys, you have to be the father and a mother because you got to be confident and you got to be tough and the older we get you got to be more tougher and but the comfort level kind of dies down because you like he got it you know you just don’t this all day like he just got to get he got to get it and when I was eight my mom where I was, I was filling I wasn’t feeling like loved always felt like the black sheep always felt man Oh, I always felt alone or whatever the case might be. So I was drawing pictures of like me can like committing my own suicide I was in fourth grade and my teacher was concerned and she gave the pictures to my mom and my mom you know she was she was angry she was upset she was crying she didn’t understand but she was like more you know like more upset like and I think that’s because you know adults feel like like hey you know I’m paying all the bills I should be the press you a child you have no reason to be feeling this way you know like it wasn’t on purpose but I think that’s the that’s the message that’s the feeling that they give off and I kept going I kept I kept I kept attacking myself so getting bullied at school not feeling I’m mn school kids are like kids aren’t mean you know so so filling them always fill in attack. I’m not having the best I think I wanted to wear like the best clothes I wouldn’t get bullied you know, so I wouldn’t get talked about things like that I was always getting talked about but I always felt like I wasn’t like the best looking guy around either. Like always was like, self conscious. Like I’m like I hate it Hi look. I always wish I was like more handsome or you know, like up to like I was maybe like Oh man, maybe like a year ago I felt like that I’m 30 years old they’ll take a long time to actually accept yourself and ask you but you know what I really do love myself has nothing to do with how I look and I’m shaped and I gotta embrace that and a lot of people have a hard time embracing that feeling that way so I had a hard time with that along feeling that way and not feeling loved not knowing how to love I think they’re mad at my dad in a way I felt like I never was mad at them because I used to live with my dad being around because always is wrong kids where they have stories with a dad has been around so I didn’t want to be left out so I used to lie like my dad you know, but my dad was he wasn’t around and I don’t blame him he had his reasons you know everybody have a reason I don’t you know, but I don’t blame him I love him I be best for instance like right now that’s like that’s my buddy that’s my guy it just mixed emotions like I don’t know if I’m angry so he would just in and out he wasn’t he just come up to my school looking through like the door like the window and he said he used to do that just because he wanted to know like if I was here like he just wanted to see you know he but everywhere removed my dad will follow just trying to figure this out. And I remember I’m gonna get back to the story this suicidal stuff and all that I remember my dad he worked for the water department here and he was fixing on the manhole in our alley. And he called my name right here and I came to the gate I didn’t I never liked seen this guy before. I was like he gave me like $5 just so I ran into the house my mind his bald head guy gave me $5 working in the backyard you know so she lives that’s your bad you know and um, when she came out he was gone but he was just like this Phantom like this he’s here to he’s not he’s here and he’s not so when I was like 14 by my brother around because I have a brother that’s two weeks old and so of course you know, he had a he was cheating with my mom and my mom was way younger. She was younger she was underage she was older so that was probably like some of the reasons to he didn’t really want to be around he didn’t get it but I have a brother that’s two weeks older than me and I’ve met him the first time when I was like 13 or 14 years so that was kind of cool. But I went over there a few times and then he got the feeling again like I wasn’t here so then I was out of the picture again so I’m dealing with like glass I’m dealing with you know I got the stepdad at the house like he is terrible like he’s just like he’s aggressive he’s you know he wouldn’t be for everything and he’s like very old school because he’s Oh like this guy’s older way older than my mom so just keep your shirts tucked in and yes you know it would just so many rules get off my grass down on my tree everything was is like from the lawn to the tree to the concrete this around the house was he is it you know you getting slapped you getting popped you getting whooped for every little thing you know and it it wasn’t never no sit down and talk you know it wasn’t no talk he was always yelling and and that’s abuse a lot of parents don’t understand that either. That’s verbal abuse like I’m a human to some dealing with that so let’s just come back to that so at that time, my stuff that was in the house with like the suicidal attempts and things like that I didn’t feel like the love from him all the way either you know, I just felt like he was just there for my mom and I just thought he was just there just to me with around somebody and just wanted to be in control everything and images. I just felt like it wasn’t equal at all. So from that time until I got into my dog age, maybe like 1819 I tried to commit suicide again. Um, I started cutting on myself, so I still have my scars here. I don’t know if you’d like pricey but if I can see him, but I have scars all around like from here on Where’s that? Yeah, so this one and yeah, so I started off cutting and then I got immune to the pain so good to where it’s like Yo, when I’m ready to get ready, you know what I’m ready to do what I want it wants to be painful. And that’s what that is. That’s what they mean as well. And then I slip my neck here three times. I cut my jugular vein. Oh my gosh, yeah, um, so that was three times I felt like I was losing everything this is around the time like I think I had my second child It was 90 I my first kid at 16 and my second son and 19 but I just felt like everything was just falling apart from me, you know, and then I did that after that I tried to hate myself and my friend found me so he saved me. And the last the very last. The last attempt was I stabbed myself with a steak knife here. The scar is very small, but it’s right here and steak knife about this big so this much have you been through. I broke through the rails here and adopt this I was like literally maybe like one or two centimeters away that point. The point of the knife was like one or two centimeters away from my puppet heart and I woke up In the hospital I took a drive I was bleeding out and I fainted I woke up in hospital sent me to a secondary psychiatric hospital I was in there for like a week and a half or something like that. But I am a survivor of self destruction as a survivor of self hate not knowing how to love myself and everything like I was I’m a survivor of depression I am I’m not 100% I’m maybe like 75 steal it which is bad for me around that in that time frames of everything just going on this feeling like I’m not worth anything and you are your own enemy. A lot of people don’t understand that you could tell yourself the most meaning you will tell yourself the most hateful things about yourself that anybody else will in this world because you only know you leave and that’s what led to these act like not wanting to be here like I be I used to wake up in the morning looking at the ceiling I used to play shit I’m still here I used to be mad and I was here I used to be mad and I felt even more upset like I can’t even I can’t even fulfill what I want to like kill but like you know to off myself like I came to fulfill it the scar these are not no petty scars I had to get rush they had to like stop the bleeding from a juggler event like I was really trying to take myself out and every time I’m waking up I gotta do this again I go through this day again I don’t want to do this again. Well I can wake up here again um I was at my my lowest my lowest terrible bad very bad yeah so I know I’m everywhere with it but I really just want let your listeners maybe you know say going through what I went through and maybe this might help somebody but um I’m not going to talk about like all the bad stuff but I’m kind of like talking about I like like I started to hear the the healing process so the healing process started in the cigarettes hospital because we was having like these Amy’s like just to talk and get it off your chest and i was i was talking a lot I would just kind of like trying to like feel the vibe of everything and then I started like tell them about my story and most of it you know he like the guy was saying like you you’re not crazy. You know you want through where everybody else is going through in life You’re young you’ve got a lot of pressure on yourself. You just got to like just take it one day at a time. I think that was like the most simplest advice that anybody could have gave me at that moment take it one day at a time. Like Can you just imagine trying to put a whole week in one day maybe you will drive yourself crazy and I was like yo you like you right? And then I learned like music therapy so it was learn how to play the keyboard piano but that advice right there like just clicks on in my brain like dude like slow down because I had a fear of like getting too old and not being who I wanted to be I’m in my late 20s I’m trying to you know going through all this crazy stuff I got these kids baby Mamas and crazy job not making enough money because Child Support just wiping me out I have nowhere to go because at this point I just moved from Detroit a good friend so I just moved to FC to give me some time away from Detroit and you know it would just lie I felt like I had no friends I was homeless at a point in time I was sleeping in I was sleeping in a friend car all of a sudden he took the car so I was sleeping outside now I’m sleeping in the winter like it’s wintertime or sleeping you know like just really going through these phases of like nobody cares so they make you mad so now I’m mad at the World Of course I’m mad at the world I’m not letting nobody get into words out of a mouth plug off on them I’m not cooperating that work I can’t do my job right so I get fired I’m just like you know it’s just we’re just terrible you just like life is a roller coaster but that roller coaster I just felt like it just had so many spiral turns like it was a no straight away from me at all.
Victoria Volk 23:58
Would you agree that grief had its grip on you since you were just a kid?
Quandell Wright 24:04
I believe, I probably just like went through the grieving process maybe this year because as humans we very good at ignoring our demons we are reached by whatever I’d be better tomorrow I mean not facing that different real life we’re not facing it for real we not going like head on what are what are emotions we not talking to nobody because at a point you won’t you don’t really know who to talk to you know you don’t want to buy in a judge you because we very quickly by you my judgment you know you can’t trust nobody because people may people are water balloons they’ve gone bust open to tell all your business so you scared about that. We can’t afford therapy. You know I never even thought about therapy until this year but I’m like so expensive. I don’t even know. You know, like, and then I’m like Do they really listen for real because it’s just for the check like, I want to get a four hour but do I gotta I got I got 27 years. We’re for stuff to tell you, you know, but it’s, you know, like, you want me to break this off in sections, and then some notes may happen tomorrow, like, I gotta get this, you know, so it’s hard it is it’s hard. But I agree like this year, once I’ve started to, I started meditating, I got out of like, the religion aspect of things, I just got out a, I got a religion is a box to me, like I don’t, you know, I’m, I’m not stepping on nobody believes anything I love that people can go somewhere and release whatever they need to whoever they believe in is great. But to me, I felt like I just felt boxed in and then just seeing how everything was going, like, everything is so hypocritical with religion, and it was just too much I got out of religion, and I just became more free spirit. You know, just like, What’s the good for me like, I don’t want to be in this box, no more, I don’t really feel like this helping me at all. Because I’m praying, I’m doing things and it’s not working for me, I got to find something that works for me. And what worked for me was like meditation, being free minded. Um, no burning sage, buying crystals and you know, doing some great things and that actually started working for me. And then as I started to do research and re I had to, I had to change my mindset, I had to stop living in my past, I had to forgive whatever was going on in my past, I had to bless my past I have to just leave it alone, which I’m still doing to this day because it’s hard. But I had to bless my past and just let it be that and I have to learn I every day is a new page and this is a fresh page. It’s a fresh sentence. And you are in control of your tomorrow you’re not in control of yesterday yesterday you don’t even matter no more you can take bits and pieces from yesterday and try to incorporate it with with your present moment and your tomorrow but most of the time, and just start fresh. So I started to I started to apply that a lot into my daily routines is getting up meditating, looking in the mirror smiling because I had a real I used to hate smiling. I you know my teeth, I got gaps. I started embracing it like cuz I always wanted braces and everything. And the dentist was like, you actually have perfect teeth cut your teeth is not supposed to be close together. You have perfect teeth. I’m like, really? He’s like, Yeah, you got floss easier. And you have some like the cleanest teeth I’ve ever seen in my career because your teeth are spaced out. So you have room to really clean real good perspective, right? Yeah. Oh, sweet. I thought I had to fit in to the perfect you know, you get great your knee brace you like you know and then when you get braces, you got to remember you have to wear a retainer for the rest of your life and my wife was telling me the same thing as y’all want to do that and you’ll keep going go right back to what they weren’t so you wasted 5000 for what my area so I had to learn how to accept that like I love my smile. I love me. This is who I am so I’m starting to do this. I used to hate taking selfies like I could never get that perfect picture. I just take them all the time now like this is who I am. I can’t just I can’t die off and knowing being on my deathbed like I never enjoyed life because I was worried about how I look and what people thought about oh this sucks. I’m really gonna die like this. Like I can’t live like that. I want to live open and happy like this is what I look like and I don’t have I don’t look half bad I’m great. I’m fine I’m happy with them and I’m just living in my moment I’m living in my future and living in mind tomorrow and I started I started to do that a lot you know telling myself these things hold myself accountable because it’s not everybody fault it’s not the world fault it’s not the government fault it’s not my mom fault it’s not my dad fault This is my fault so what I let get into my mind and months into my mental and let destroy me in my spirit This is my fault I have to fix this because I have kids I can’t be around mophie around now can’t be feeling the way I used to feel I can’t keep having these thoughts I mean granted yeah I ran across thoughts of you know you know suicidal thoughts and stuff like that I feel like people that deal with depression you get better and better at self healing some days my life go right you kind of some days maybe like really off you know you might already this you know you get that but you got to jump right back into the loop. You know what? Nope, I know I want to think like that. I got I got tomorrow. I got tomorrow do better tomorrow. I got tomorrow, you know so that’s how that’s how I live. I live like that. I believe that’s fair. I believe that’s right. I believe that’s the only way you could actually like cope with yourself because I feel like we don’t we don’t take time for us. You know. We too busy trying to make everybody else happy. I think that’s our problem.
Victoria Volk 30:03
Does it take waking up in a hospital bed after you try and stab yourself to turn your life around? I don’t think so, but I’m curious what you have to say about that?
Quandell Wright 30:14
It didn’t even take that, I was like disappointed I think I just want i wanted to i wanted to go home It took my parents to know to admit me into it was like look we gotta admit you into this cycle he has we have so we don’t we can’t we can’t trust you to get right back out of this band and go into the world like you okay like we can’t do it we came allowed it we got to see what we want.
Victoria Volk 30:39
So, it really wasn’t even waking up in the hospital that like oh my gosh what did what did I just do?
Quandell Wright 30:44
I was you know, it wasn’t, I would just so immune to like kind of do this all the time. I was just ready to get up and go okay, I didn’t die whatever, I want to go home.
Victoria Volk 30:57
So that shift happened for you, and you first had the opportunity to actually talk and be heard?
Quandell Wright 31:03
So yeah, it took for me going to the psych world a psychiatric hospital whatever the case whatever the facility was at the time to be in those a meetings and hearing other people’s story and granted their story was like worse than mine and I felt selfish about you know, like I feel selfish and I was like wow like these people went through like unbelievable things I couldn’t even imagine things I couldn’t even go through even if I wanted to like this is you know they you know this crazy so hearing their story in here near avize this what helped me like you also have a chance like I can do this like I’m here for a reason you know I got it I gotta figure it out. I gotta I gotta fix me No, I gotta change my mindset. So it took for me to go there not waking up in the hospital could that I was just ready to go home I was about to go home what I read and work they stitched me up I’m good you know whatever and my parents they they wasn’t having it because I think it was there I think it was their second time being down there you know only event like that you know me doing something crazy like that. So they were just like nah because the third time I actually beat a charm you might actually succeed you got to see what’s going on. And it’s like that’s after.
Victoria Volk 32:24
So after you made that decision for yourself, you made the choice to take responsibility for yourself is what I’m hearing. How did that transform your parenting and just everything else for you?
Quandell Wright 32:37
So this being very open with my kids always you know we as parents we we get the habit of saying like you know I’m your parent I’m not your friend You know, I think there’s some that we need to stop that just advice to all parents out there what I say is be 5050 be both be or be the friend of your child because I was eight and I was thinking about hanging myself Hey, you know so you could just imagine what these kids want to do now with social media and they saw expose to the world and see and so I’m more open with my kids we talk about whatever they want to talk about my what’s going on I have teenagers now let’s talk you know what’s going on your life what’s what’s happening? Like I’m not like hey, you better not be you now you installing fear and even if they are doing it they might do it more or they might not do it at all but it scared me they don’t really cuz somebody go on whatever you tell them not to do and they don’t really know how to handle it. So now you know too much stuff get caught up into that like hey what’s going on? Are you interested in certain things like so? And we taught my kids all my kids like all of them all the way down? We like mega Tell me whatever like we kick it because I feel like talking is the talking is the real healing process. It is already have my kid been able to come to me and tell me anything and I’m going to be scared shitless like right now I can’t go to my dad with this hit me like I’m going to lay I’m gonna let you know you’re wrong like we’re gonna talk for show but hey look, you hear me you don’t make mistakes but I’m here to guide you though I’m not here to be like to dis control your life I’m here to guide you so I can kind of like help you you know sound on the right path that you’re trying to get on so you won’t make the wrong mistakes all the time because you’ve got to make mistakes the mistakes has come in Well yeah, I have two kids and I just started high school Oh the mistakes as they come in. They come in right now like but it’s better when I like my my son like he lives in Euclid Ohio. Great football player, great basketball player just got a 3.8 GPA. Oh, handsome ages. You know he he does think he did you know he everything. He everything that I Wish I was when I was. He is the man like, when they come to looks like he got it like he is my son. Like I’m proud I created that. Had he stayed fresh his mom is a successful nurse. You know he’s um, he never even live 1% of the lifestyle I was living is a whole different nice home a whole different environment don’t even live. I don’t even think they live in the hood, I just think is like a subdivision type. beautiful home, got every game, every Oh, I can’t even he’s it. He’s what I wanted to be like he’s it. But when come to know having that and being popular is a responsibility, because he bought it. So now on top of that he’s got all these little girls like fast. They all love them. He does I he does. But he’s very respectful. He’s a great guy, you know, he know what’s going on. His mom was like, hey, um, you know, you need to know these little girls, when you start talking to him. These little girls cannot control you talk to him about sex. And I’m like, ah, he was also good at school and sports. I forgot to even maybe mean you see my life, he know about my life. You know, by everything. I say, you see, my life is gonna be like that. Take care of yourself. No kids. And I’m not saying I had to break it down to them. We’re not agreeing with sex. So Get that through your head. But if you think you bout to have it, you need to sit down with me, your mom or me and your mom so we can properly prepare you because we cannot stop. We can. Because you will find a way to do it. Somebody’s going to take you to do it. Some girl going you is going to happen. I hope they don’t though. Don’t and when they do you need to be prepared me to be safe. You need to be responsive. And you could come to us when that time come. We’re not saying Oh hey, do it all the time. You can do your time. No. But it is getting there. You’re like hey, look, you know, I’m feeling this. I want to, now my job is to be like Alright, now stop feeling it. Chill out.
Victoria Volk 37:15
That’s not realistic, right?
Quandell Wright 37:17
But you know what? These are called condoms. Okay, this is some videos you want to learn how to Because? Because I had him at 16, my mom kicked in the door like hey, you have to say oh wait, huh? She didn’t cause me like better you know so it wasn’t really that was her way of that’s the fear tactic, it wasn’t like, Hey come on.
Victoria Volk 37:43
Open communication, yeah.
Quandell Wright 37:44
She was you know cuz she felt like the fear would and look what happened maybe two years later hey, you got a grandbaby. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 37:53
And it was probably a lot of her projecting her own fear right and I think that’s what we we often do sometimes and you know we project our own fears.
Quandell Wright 38:03
Yeah, cuz she had me when she was 17 so it was hard on her, and she was definitely wanting better you know? So, you know having my son at that age which is just crazy. I think my son said he got the youngest parents in the school but um it’s cool like every like his best friend that’s and I’m growing my son has grown up with his parents you know and we can relate to him might be a far behind like he could be thinking he’s slick like new we right there like our generation created social media do lie right here with you but we had a generation when everything was made we had our hands on your first all right so we rewrite with it you went to sleep we right there, but I love what he’s doing very smart. And I want that to you know, I don’t want to put my fear on him. scare him. I just find this. And I lost the scholarship in high school. You know, because I was fighting all day, like I know stuff. And I lost a lot of stuff. And I didn’t lost friends due to um, then I just lost a friend named Joe you know, rescue no less. So I lost the drug overdose. My best friend, one of my best friends since like fourth grade, one of my best friends and that was like the most painful death I’ve encountered. I lost a lot of people. Just people I know you bite down my anus. Great guy. That was a great you know; this is a friend in elementary school. I be so rasam recess and high school together like he lived like we live with my cousin. When we didn’t want to be home where he’s been hardheaded. You know, we went to school from his house. We lived there like no he. No, not like this. Oh man. We’re just terrible, you know, and he was there to take it in and see him go out that way it hurt him because that was In our dream, you know, we wanted to be rappers, we wanted to be successful. We wanted to you know, do things like that right? And he went down the route of he got too deep into the rabbit hole to being a product of his environment. And that’s what happened to him. We got old enough to get jobs and everything like that. He didn’t go that route, you know, he stayed in a hook start hanging out with different types of sets. And the first person actually got him I was the mother of his child, her mother, and she laced the she laced the wheat and ever since then, this the story that I’ve gotten maybe since then it’s been downhill for him. And I’ve seen him when I was 19 or 20. I was working at Comerica Park, one of my best job but I was working at Comerica Park, the Tigers he came with a group and I was saying them and I ran out the back and I was like Joe cuz I hadn’t seen him a year maybe like four or five years. Some years maybe maybe three four at the high school and I was like yo, and we have and he looked he was so skinny. He was missing teeth. He didn’t look like him. And I’m like what’s going on? And he was like man I’m cleaning now and the way he said it you know I was supposed to be clean like what do you mean like you dirty all the time like cuz I didn’t do drugs I didn’t even smoke weed you know I didn’t you know so i he’s i mean i was i was on I was on heroin outside and I broke down because I’m like the we NINETEEN’S no way like the people we see in O’Hare when they was older like them older dope things in the hood and we used to like have racing with the grocery baskets and stuff this little you know no no fees like we know you’re my best friend you schooling off gave him my number he always lose your number always Hey, you know I’ve moved out of the neighborhood and want to my life crisis and all that stuff. I want to say Joe pass four months ago but I see him maybe two months before he passed me withdrawal driving a friend of mines on Cato he was driving you see them walking in the middle of the street because we want to go do something and in the city so we stopped we got out man we heard them and he was looking the same way real skinny big clothes with no shirt yeah like a rope top that to his pants is this real bow and we talk and before he left I heard them all i mean you know I love you bro like because we wanted to help him get his ID and stuff like that so he got our number and I love you don’t have to get your ID I just built my studio that’s what you’re looking at so I renovated my garage to my design studio so I got my own creative space now so this week I was like yo can we get this together? Have you come out you know you’re gonna help print some t shirts you know because Cato you know or the boy Cato he print custom t that’s a side business he really he does a great job so let’s go do stuff with us we’ll make sure you get your birth certificate your ID we don’t get you away from here bro you know good things happen I just did the you know the know the collaboration with K Swiss with the T shirts the Unity t shirt happened in August so he already passed and I believe Yeah, he did. But you know I was still communicating with Mr. waters to see okay, Swiss. My mentors that ethica you know, like, good things is happening you know, like sunlight. Yo, you know, you won’t be doing something like they’ll be gonna get you away from even if you got to stay in the studio. And I heard him I told him that and we love He called me two weeks before he died. He was like one in the morning. He was at this gas station and he was like, man, I need to charge. Oh, my hellos. Like what? And I need a charger. I need a phone charger. I’m calling from the gas station phone. I’m like, Okay, well I look at it. Yeah, like I’m like Obama. And I’m like, Well, I have iPhones so I’m like well, I can use the PlayStation charger that I use for my controller bracketing he’s like nah man he was oh Joe was always caring he name you know the kids may play a game I’m like no bro who need to charge I’m gonna come I’m gonna come out you know he was a nominal Mario I’m like you sure you know they want to in the morning like yeah i’m sure so I was about to go he was like bro he called me and said you know I love you and thank you for always picking up my phone and that was the last words that he said and I was like, you know I got you rambling you know and and that was it and then I hear that he you know he had passed away from overdose. He passed away from overdose. And I cried for days because I felt like I failed. You know as a brother as a friend that I didn’t become successful quick enough to say my friend talked to his dad his dad was like you know we did so much to try to help them but when people in their mindset of where they want to be at where they want to stay who they are you can’t really can’t change that and I just felt so bad like his days I To this day, like I wish I just would have just stuffed him in the car like bro, you just go I had to stay here. Hold him hostage. I used to go. And I wish I would have did that, you know, but um, he had dreams he had door first had like, three girls, three beautiful daughters, you know, just just a great guy. He really was. Yeah, that was just, um, it was just tragic for me. And I’ve really put like a put a scar on my heart. For real my that was my best friend. So seeing that and going through that, it was just really like, I really have to do more for the community. I want to do more for the community. You know, I just, you can’t save everybody. That’s the sad part. can’t save everybody. But um, if I could save one or two people at a time, I think that’s that’s progress. And I can take that. I’ll take that over.
Victoria Volk 45:47
I’ll tell you right now I really feel like you’re a ripple creator.
Quandell Wright 45:51
Thank you. Yeah, um, my life is this whatever, you know.
Victoria Volk 45:56
In your life? Yes. Just the fact that you turned your life around. You’re changing your kid’s lives in the process, the trajectory of their lives, of everyone in your life.
Quandell Wright 46:09
Banner, banner’s key yeah, kids is awesome. My wife is awesome. So great team, you know, you create a great team one day in life, you see one and I created that mindset. And I have that, you know, like my daughter, she made something actually out of hanging out. Think positive. Don’t think negative. is was dope though. Cuz I’m like, yo, she’s learning from what I teach all the time. And I’ve thought about it some time. I do. You know, you mean a note like that? And I’m like, oh, this is dope. So yeah, she listened. You know, my son listened. And my son had texted me like, hey, pops, telling you I love you keep it going. I see what’s going on. You know, like, I’m proud. Like as though you know, there’s really though so my kids they they behind me, you know? Sam, my wife, behind the man and we all we got, y’all we got so yeah.
Victoria Volk 47:05
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Quandell. I know you couldn’t see but my eyes were welling up.
Quandell Wright 47:14
I appreciate it. I do. When people hear my story, and they just know me personally, they be like, I would have never thought that. Like you are just so happy most of the time you so giving, you know, and I just be like, Yeah, but people like that many been through the worse. And I just want to be that person, they don’t want somebody else to go through. So, you know, I always say like, you know, become that friend that you always wanted to have for somebody else. You know, so that’s how you become a great friend. Yeah. And that’s really it from there. Oh, yeah. I know. He was talking about the book said the Dr. Joe. Dr. Joe book about the this Vanessa?
Victoria Volk 47:57
Dispenza? Yes. listeners, there is a book that Quandell and I actually bonded over a little bit. It’s called breaking the habit of being yourself how to lose your mind and create a new one by Dr. Joe Dispenza. I don’t know about you, but it’s
Quandell Wright 48:15
Yeah, that’s a great book. And we have the becoming supernatural natural
Victoria Volk 48:21
Oh, becoming supernatural natural. I’ve not read that one.
Quandell Wright 48:27
Get it. Um, this book right here is, um, it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. Yep. So this is a little torture, but it’s all about self healing. The law of attraction, you know, just healing yourself mentally, and how to how to balance your energy and how to make sure you you invest your energy into the right things that you want in life, you know, for it to come true and everything like that. So great book. I love it. And then if you’re entrepreneur thinking Grow Rich, have it read it. by Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Hill. This is a great book. And, and don’t give up. This is by Kyle Eidelman, don’t give up.
Victoria Volk 49:08
Okay, Kyle Idleman. Never heard of that one.
Quandell Wright 49:12
Yeah, great book. Yeah, I’d be reading that again. I read some books over again. And I’m in rotation. So I feel like I get some new ones. And this is from Robert. This is from the dude that wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad, but it’s called the business school. Now, okay, very cool. Very cool. Very good. So entrepreneurs get this. And if you need help with marketing, 10-day MBA.
Victoria Volk 49:35
That’s a big book.
Quandell Wright 49:38
It is a big book. And a lot of these, this book is still being used. It’s still being used in it. And the budget business major universities. So if you’re into marketing or anything, the Wall Street, you know, Wall Street graduates, they know what this book is. And I’m self taught, and I learned everything from this book right here. So this is a great book. It’s very It’s beautiful. So, I got more books but these are like my favorite books. And these are like I mean a more than bugs these are like these are my Bibles. So, I always go back in and look at the notes and kind of re reread certain chapters that I like and and I go from there so read in this very very good for you especially if you are entrepreneur or influencer so read your books stay on top of your game and especially if you soft you self taught you need books. Okay. And YouTube University is great as well. Its good.
Victoria Volk 50:42
I love a book in my hand too. I will link to all those books that Quandell mentioned as well. And right now I’m reading love yourself like your life depends on it.
Quandell Wright 50:52
Oh, nice.
Victoria Volk 50:53
And I like how it’s written. It’s not even written in chapters. It’s like headings and it’s very practical too. I think you would like this so that would be my other recommendation.
Quandell Wright 51:07
Okay, sweet.
Victoria Volk 51:08
I see a bit of Quandell, right the life coach here. I don’t know about my listeners, but I see great things for you, just your spirit and your energy.
Quandell Wright 51:19
Thank you thank you yeah,
Victoria Volk 51:21
My pleasure.
Quandell Wright 51:23
You gotta you gotta you gotta smile smile people smile pleased This is actually beneficial to help in everything when I learned about smiling they are nice I could do that all the time like this self confidence and it’s a boost smile in the morning and they’re telling you a whole day it’d be right and when you smile you smile I mean peih Gee, can I even like interrupt their energy at all like me people came to be mean to you when you smiling they just give a smile that smile is gonna keep your confidence level up Believe in yourself and um anybody could contact me on facebook All right, Instagram q x William Palmer got any questions you just want to talk I’m here I don’t have to know you this is not a time for people to be like I don’t know you so I don’t care it’s me all human we all breathe and bleed the same you know you know this just reach out and I’m actually one more thing before we leave I’m actually doing every Sunday I have like a guy group um which is kind of cool. So um, the guys they come out and we talk like how are we talking about what’s going on in my life and what they want to accomplish and how to accomplish it and and we talk it’s and we got you know we got the PlayStation running got like 2k we got some beers got some food and the guys we just talk and we you know it might be deep it might not be so deep but we talk and the first time I had it people was happy about this they was like man I feel really good. I was able to write maybe talk to some people I really didn’t know um it was able to like network with each other like you know pass numbers like my friend um he actually he makes seasonings he got his own seasoning and he, so he saw like four or five you know so that was kind of cool you know, but he was able to talk and get it out. So, every Sunday I was called I hey can you do this Sunday? Can I bring somebody because my bro want to come Can you talk brangham Let’s go so I’m getting more man in here. Hopefully not too many to where I can’t fit them all but I’m getting more man here we are talking y’all laughing y’all smiling we’re getting off our chest and I’m planning on to you know hopefully get women in here. Women a little bit more feisty. But I plan on trying to get women in here sooner or later but right now I just feel like you know, man, it’s very hard for us to talk about anything. Especially black man. You don’t really know anything about therapy real No, we just I’m just we’re we just genuinely and I get people in here and we all caring and loving I feel like that’s enough. You’re not paying anything. You just hear for however long you want to be here you don’t even have to talk if you just want to just catch the vibe of things that’s fine too. You know, I just want to make sure that his energy and his vibe and and I make sure I save before anybody come so that way just all positive energy and then we go from there so yep, so this Sunday, I’m doing it again and people are excited. So if you in the state of Michigan or if you are not I’m here if you visiting. You just want to you know people Want to bigger than this, they like major sponsors, I don’t really want all that I just really want it genuine and very, very authentic. You know, I don’t really want cameras and anything like that I really want people to feel like they can talk without all this stuff going on camera and I want us to talk about it. It’s such a blow up bigger than that, and that’d be fine. For their sake. I want them to feel, you know, feel like they can talk to like a real friend. Yeah, so yeah, so that’s what I have going on every Sunday. That’s cool.
Victoria Volk 55:35
That’s amazing. You are so inspiring. I’m so glad you agreed to be on and I’m glad I met you.
Quandell Wright 55:43
Likewise. Thank you. I gotta send you some gear.
Victoria Volk 55:50
I would love that, thank you again. If you want to reach out to quando again his he’s on Instagram at qxwilliampalmer. And are you on Facebook? Did you say if you were on Facebook?
Quandell Wright 56:01
Yes, I’m on Facebook. Yeah Quandell H Wright (Q).
Victoria Volk 56:07
You send me the link, you send me the information and I’ll put it in the in the notes. Everybody hooked up there. That was all right. Thank you so much again, for sharing your story with me with my audience. I send you so much love and light and I just your ripple creator. And I thank you for being you.
Quandell Wright 56:29
Thank you. I appreciate it. Peace of love. Take care.
Victoria Volk 56:31
All right, till next time, everybody. Unleash your heart and you unleash your life. Much love.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Podcast, Takeaways and Reflections |
Takeaways & Reflections | Trauma & The Woo
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Episode 25 with Katie Chonacas was difficult for me to hear. I saw myself in her story and, although my experiences have been different, I felt for her, what I had been feeling also for myself. And, that was incredible sadness for what she went through.
In this episode, I reflect more deeply on those experiences and, you’ll also get to learn and understand how it is I found my way to do the work that I do today as both a Certified Grief Specialist and as a Reiki Master.
I share, from Victoria Shaw’s episode (Episode 26) more about my experience with motherhood and my loss of self, and the path I paved on finding my way back to myself. And, not just my adult self, but the inner-child within that loved “all things woo” even as a kid.
The natural wonder of being a kid never left me, just as it hasn’t left you. Life, obligations, and responsibilities have a way of sucking the fun out of life. It’s up to us to bring back the wonder, the mystery, curiosity, and playback into our lives. I share how Reiki has reignited that for me – and within me.
Resources Mentioned:
Quick Link to Previous Episodes:
So anyway, today I’m going to share some of my takeaways things that I would like to reflect on from their episodes. So starting with Katie’s episode, I think with trauma, we tend to have this emotional disconnect from our bodies. Oftentimes, trauma negatively impacts our relationships, and others can trigger similar emotions that we are attempting to stuffed down, ignore, or in some instances, truly disconnect from and bury so deep that the experience and the feelings come in and flashes, almost like flashbacks later in life. And such has been the case for me personally. And, you know, I really haven’t opened up a whole lot about my personal experience in a lot of detail. But Katie’s sharing has actually, it was actually really hard for me to listen to her story. Because I only this year, I’ve had other experiences come up in those flashbacks as I mentioned. But my story started when I was a child. I was molested as a child, I was nine the first time. On another occasion, I was a little bit older. I was 12. And these are the occurrences that I remember my childhood is very, I don’t want to say choppy in my memory.
You know, losing my dad at eight that was very traumatic. And he was sick for quite some time before that. So yeah, just my childhood is not wasn’t ideal. Like it wasn’t. Yeah, I just I feel like that I buried a lot. And so therefore a lot of memories are captured. Not a lot, because I don’t have a lot of pictures to be honest. It’s almost as if I need pictures to remember, I guess. But that time plays out in my mind, like a movie. And so do my cries for help where others were in the home, and no one came to help me. After the second time I was 12. I was silent for two years. Until I wasn’t and and then I was disregarded. Thus, this set the stage for a child who became very angry inside a child who learned that good behavior. That’s an air quotes, by the way, was rewarded with love. Which then created unworthiness issues that I’m actually still working through. Not to mention the ability to say what I need and ask for help.
Learning Resiliency Not by Choice
I learned resiliency, but not by choice. I’ve spoken about this before, maybe in another podcast episode with someone else, or I’m not sure, but it drives me absolutely crazy when people say that children are resilient, because many became that way, not by choice, and children don’t necessarily bounce back or get over it any more than adults do. So children with they’re still developing minds, rather, are changed biologically and chemically, at a cellular level, when there’s trauma, which is an event that is traumatic to them, and not by your definition as the adult. So often, adults don’t understand, you know, what the big deal is, when kids express their emotions in a big way. And the best thing you can do is to without judgment, and was analyzing or criticizing them, is to just listen, you know, and I’m not talking even like these these big experience, these traumatic experiences, I’m talking the little ones to that might not be a big deal to you, but to that child, it’s something traumatic for them, you know, you take their blankie away, or their pet dies into you, it’s like, well, we can replace the pet, you know, we can, we can get a new dog.
My Big T Traumas & The Effect of Trauma
And this is why I talk a lot about with grief in that the first lessons we receive on how to grieve is when we are children. So don’t just assume that, you know, the dog dies, get a new one, hope they bounce back, they’re still emotionally incomplete from that first pet they lost, that was probably their best friend, their first their first love in a way, you know, you just don’t forget your first love, I think there needs to be a little bit more compassion brought in to the relationships that children develop. So anyway, that’s kind of a side tangent. I mentioned that though, because by the time I was 18, I had had several big T traumas, but also little ones, too, you know, with the animals, you know, with the dogs that I had to give away and couldn’t keep or friends moving away. So by the age of 18, I’d already experienced those, like I said, several big t traumas. And as Dr. Victoria Shaw called them in Episode 26, and adulthood to me, like, equated this, in many ways, freedom, I saw myself in Katy second experience more than once. And if you haven’t listened to that episode, this won’t make much sense, maybe until you do. But alcohol was my best friend for several years. And as a result, I just didn’t care about much else, I should have lost my job, I nearly lost my license, my driver’s license, I ruined my credit. And when it all came to a head, I am pretty amazed looking back that I wasn’t using more alcohol or something other than alcohol. But there was one I’d buried so deeply that as I speak about it, I still don’t fully know what happened. And that’s the scary thing about trauma. It can rare, it’s buried ugly head, when you least expect it. I experienced a first a flashback during my Reiki one and two certification.
And what has followed has been more moments like that the impact it’s had on me and my marriage, not necessarily in a bad way. It’s brought to the bend brought to the light to be healed. Did it feel good? No. But it did it. I mean, to be honest, it did have some negative impact on my marriage. Because a trauma like that, that you can’t really explain, you really don’t know. What do you do with that, right? So still working through that our shadow selves. The sides of us that come out when we’re stressed, angry or sad, are tied to those parts of ourselves that are asking to be healed. And so for me giving up alcohol completely cold turkey. It was a year in November, which I still fully can’t explain. Because I don’t even crave it wasn’t that was a necessary step to heal everything else because my relationship to alcohol didn’t start in my 20s. Like for many of us, it started for me as a teenager. And there are layers to our lives, chapters of our book that with tender self loving care and self compassion. We can change the narrative of our future chapters. And Katie did that for herself by sharing for the first time her story on my podcast publicly, and it’s led to some much needed conversations in her life healing conversations from what she shared with me since we recorded her Episode two months ago. I hope you find your courage to make the moves you need and the steps you need to heal.
Grief Recovery Can Help You
What that looks like for you, whether it’s seeking outside help going on a healing retreat, beginning a journaling and meditation practice, or simply forgiving yourself. But I must tell you, it is not necessary to confront anyone who has hurt you, physically or otherwise, forgiveness is for you, not the other person. Grief recovery can help you find your way to forgiveness without ever speaking one word to the offender, reach out if you need support. And I’ll put the link in the show notes. The biggest mistake so many of us make is that we think we have to go it alone. Society has taught us that you need to be strong. But like I said, traumas big and small, have a way of rearing their ugly heads when we least expect it. So if you do need support, please, if you don’t reach out to me, reach out to someone.
A Story of Losing Her Beloved Self
Moving on to Victoria’s episode, I’m going to be speaking to the moms, the parents listening. That’s what I am. That’s what this episode was about. To start. It was Victoria’s story of her loss of herself her beloved self as she called her when she became a mother. And I really resonated with that I thought it was a different type of loss that hadn’t been covered on the podcast, one that I relate to, I think, especially when you are in the trenches of motherhood, as I explained to in the episode, sharing how my kids were, I have three children. My oldest is pushing 16, my youngest will be 12 pretty soon and my middle is 14 started a job now my middle one. She’s a waitress got her light cutter permit actually not that long ago. So you know, I’m on the road to an empty nest faster than I really anticipated when they were still three in diapers at one time. And those years are a blur. Absolutely a blur. But there was so much going on for me at that time, personally, and children have a way of bringing up our traumas. So emotionally, I felt like I was going through a lot. I was a single mom, essentially, for much of their younger years. Just because my husband traveled with his job, he was gone quite a bit. So that was challenging. So you kind of lose yourself when you’re so preoccupied with little people. Right? You don’t have time for yourself. It’s hard to make time. I’ll just make the time. Yeah, easier said than done. Right? So yeah, I lost myself in my kids.
And by the time I could actually take a step back and breathe a little boy was I confused. I was so lost, I felt so lost. And it wasn’t until my youngest started was starting kindergarten. And actually, just this week, as I’m recording this, I connected some dots, I realized I had a loss in 2014 of someone who it was really an emotionally charged relationship, because she wasn’t in my life. And the person was my grandmother, my dad’s mother, and I had not connected the dots that you know, she had actually died the month before my youngest started kindergarten. And emotionally, I think I kind of buried what was going on for me during that time when she passed because I had gone to visit her in the nursing home. And it wasn’t a very good visit. I think I went there for some sort of completion, some sort of apology, because when my dad passed, I didn’t as much as even get a birthday card, you know, I was eight, and I just wasn’t in her life. And I don’t know, really the reason completely behind all that. But, you know, adult matters tend to trickle into the children, you know, which is very unfortunate egos get in the way. And the children become collateral damage. So that was me, I felt, you know, really damaged from the fractured relationship, the relationship that never was. And so when I went to see her in the nursing home, I think I was looking for some sort of glimmer in her eye of sorrow, regret, and yeah, an apology that I never got.
And so like in grief recovery, we say, Well, you know, if you’re looking for an apology, you never get you’re stuck in emotional jail. And that’s the thing about forgiveness is that and why it’s for us and not the other person. Because what if you were to forgive someone in person, and they don’t accept it? They don’t accept your apology. You’re stuck in emotional jail, or what if you’re waiting for an apology that you never get? You’re still stuck in emotional jail, right? So that was me. I was stuck in emotional jail, and then my youngest started kindergarten and I really did not connect that not until this week. So that was kind of the tip of the iceberg, I suppose of 2014 when this whole personal development stuff really started to take off for me, I suppose, where I looked for books and things, courses, people that could help me feel better. So yeah, anyway, back to Victoria’s conversation about motherhood.
The Woo of Life
That’s what 2014 the start of 2014 was for me, it was finding my way back to me again, after my youngest started kindergarten. Now, at that same time, if you’ve never listened to an episode, before I got a dog, I told my husband, I needed a dog, because I was really hurting inside and I was looking for a distraction. And I replaced the loss of my child, my last one going to kindergarten of what I now know is like emotional dis ease from that relationship that ended the way it did. That brought up all those old old feelings when she passed. So yeah, that conversation really resonated with me, I listened to it, if you’re a mother probably will resonate with you too. And we got a lot into talking about the Woo, the woo of life. When I say the word Woo. I mean, like the things you can’t explain the spiritual, the mystic intuition, things like that, you know, it can mean astrology can mean palm reading. For some people, you know, they’ll include Tarot in there, for some like pagan type things is a little Woo. I’m not into the Tarot thing I’m not into, there’s some things I’m not really into, or don’t really resonate with me or speak to me, what does speak to me is all about intuition. I’m all about intuition.
And I’m all about the things I can’t explain. And one of the things I can’t explain is Reiki really well, because to this day, after being a practitioner, Reiki practitioner now for Oh, gosh, is it a year, something like that little over a year, it really is hard for me to explain. There’s a mystery to it. That brings out the kid in me. And I’ve really, anyway, I’ll get more into that. But when I say Woo, that’s what I mean. And living where I live, where it’s very rural farming community, you know, where this is German heritage in my area, we’re stubborn, we are stubborn. I will admit that. So Reiki in my area is almost like this thing that the people that come to me, I hear a lot. So many of them say that, well, that’s weird. I’m weird. And, you know, for many years, like when I was a child, I thought I was weird, too. But anyway, so growing up, I was into the mysterious and the unexplainable, and mysticism, I ordered a dream analysis book, as a teen, I read my horoscope read religiously, into my peers, I did feel different from them. Because I was into the different. And when I say different, I’m, you know, air quotes, different as I grew, and responsibilities and obligations of life, those things were kind of shoved to the, to the background, you know, obligations, responsibilities were put to the forefront, and my dreamy mystic, intrigued self went into the shadows. That is until I started to wake up to that side of me, again, the unbelievably curious side of me, because I felt incredibly lost in my life, as I mentioned earlier, and unfulfilled.
And I didn’t know why, by outward appearances, I should have been happy. I had a great family, healthy kids who I was able to raise without the pressures of childcare and the needs, and overall, I was living a blessed life. And there’s grief in that in so much guilt and shame. Like, why can’t you just be content? I would think to myself, How selfish are you for wanting more for yourself? But what was that more? What was it? That’s why I felt so lost. That’s what grief does to us, makes us feel lost. Like, we don’t have choices, all these things. So I felt lost. 2014 lost. And that’s when I started, like I said earlier to seeking out or maybe they found me books, resources, courses, things that would help me elevate my life, evolve, grow through the things I’d experienced. So over the next five years, I would navigate the deep question. We all ask ourselves at one point, and more often than not, it’s during a life changing period in our lives, or life changing event. And the question is, why am I here? The other question is, what is my purpose, which brings me back to the child within me, who was curious about everything.
How Reiki Works
So my journey of self discovery began with having my palms read and doing an immense amount of journaling, meditation, tapping, reading so many books, and finally, grief recovery. And as I began to shed the layers of all that grief through grief recovery work in the personal development and internal stuff I was working through, I was led to Reiki or Reiki phone me kept hearing about it. Reiki, reiki, reiki, I’m like, What? It would pop up everywhere, like what is Reiki? I had a call with a gal that knew more about Reiki than I did. We talked and she shared what she knew with me and so intrigued and curious. And I hadn’t even experienced a Reiki session for myself. And I thought, well, there’s something to this, I listened to my intuition, and I signed up for a class and the rest is history. I went as far as I’ve could have gone. Now as in my certifications, unless I Well, that’s not true, I could actually become a licensed Reiki Master, which can take several years actually take up to three years. I’m not quite there yet. I’m very satisfied with where I’m at, I guess in my development, as far as Reiki goes, but Reiki has been a game changer for me. It has been that thing that has reminded me of my kids self, the child curious about everything, who wondered about the things no one could explain, and has helped me to understand myself on a deeper level. I’ve learned through Reiki, why don’t get squeamish around others deep emotions, how I’m empathic, and feel others people’s energy in the room.
Reiki has given me language to explain why I feel drained, after social events, how I would pick up and take on other people’s energy. But in the past, I didn’t know how to shake as when I was a professional photographer, and I shot weddings, you know, shooting a wedding, it’s, you know, 12 hour day, it’s like a marathon and you’re around people all day, like it’s 12 hours of peopling and I would be wiped two days, it would take me two days to recover from shooting a wedding. I never really understood why I just thought it was like this, you know, the mental and physical bandwidth that goes into it. But it was also people’s energy, like a lot of people’s energy, which is really great, usually for a wedding, but not always, you know, there’s family dynamics where things can be stressful to so but anyway, I just really gained a lot of understanding of my own energy through Reiki.
So coming back to where I live in rural North Dakota, when I tell people in my area, and even at first when I told some of my own family members about Reiki they were like, Huh, what’s that? Reiki just isn’t well known. Not in my area anyway. And the clients I do have have expressed to me what I long felt about myself, as I mentioned, like they, you know, they’re weird. They feel like they’re weird, because they’re into this sort of thing that makes me sad, because they’re feeling embarrassment, for knowing what it is. Because it’s just one of those things. That’s really hard to explain. And this leads me to a question. So if you identify yourself, as a Christian, stick with me, I’m not getting into religion here. Just stick with me. If you identify yourself as a Christian, I’m going to challenge you to consider it doesn’t that isn’t that a little bit Woo, too. Because if you believe in someone, you neither see, nor hear out loud and can’t explain in a lot of ways, like what it what that faith is believing and not seeing, like, if you can’t if I mean, that’s really hard to explain for Christians, I’m a Christian, that’s really hard to explain, right? To have this inner knowing this faith of what you cannot see, and you cannot hear as a Christian. That’s a little bit woo isn’t it? I don’t know. That’s what came up for me as I was thinking about this. It’s like we believe in something we cannot see. And we cannot hear. And that’s Reiki. That’s Reiki for me.
How Reiki Can Enhanced Faith Relationship
You know, people might say, You’re weird for being a Christian. I don’t know. There’s some people that would maybe, but kind of the same side of the coin for me. So I suppose just as I have blind faith and Jesus, I have blind faith and Reiki and it’s just opened up a spiritual connection for me to a higher power greater than my own. It’s actually really enhanced my relationship my faith relationship. I feel like I’m simply a conduit for the love and the light energy that is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced before. As a result of the work that I’ve been doing. I feel more tapped into my intuition and inner knowing the night ever have an a part of that is because I’ve removed the many cloaks that I’ve worn and the veil that grief had put over my eyes. Eyes and over my soul. When our hearts get convoluted in our logical minds full of Monkey chatter, we find it really difficult to see which way is up much less know when our heart is guiding us to something better when we clear a path from our hearts to our higher selves, and we pull the weeds along the way, and trim the bushes our lives, blossom and thrive. Each of us has to find our own way on what the path clearing will entail. And will each utilize or be called to something different different modalities or people that help us do that.
My takeaway for you, is to listen to your nudges and poopoo, the logical mind that wants to question and second guess whether you find yourself knee deep in diapers, packing up the last kid for college, or questioning what you want to do with your life after a devastating loss. Consider that the energy of grief you may be carrying loss of self identity of who you once were, and the unknown of what’s to come. Perhaps the loss of hopes, dreams and expectations are what you wish would have been different, better or more, or would be different, better or more. These are feelings of grief. If you feel deeply and identify yourself as an empath, like myself, embrace this as a gift, not a curse, as I did for so long. Resist getting locked into your pain story. And choose action towards healing. When you get the nudges as victorious son, or episode, no part of the human experience is wasted.
Curiosity Led Me Into Healing
I want to leave you with this amazing awareness I had while editing. It was 10:20 when we recorded our episode, and I shared how my dad hasn’t come to me in my dreams in her episode. So if you haven’t listened to it, then you’ll This will make sense. But three days later, during my Karuna holy fire certification training, we did a guided healing meditation.
And guess what? My dad came to me. I was a child in this vision. And I came out of that meditation very different than I went in. It was a profoundly healing meditation. And the message I received was that I wasn’t ready until now. And I did not make this connection until I was editing your episode. So what we need to know comes to us in divine timing. And that may sound a little Woo. And I don’t care. Because I’m a little Woo. And I’m not embarrassed. I don’t feel weird. I’m embracing that inner child in me that loves all the things I can’t explain. Curiosity has led to so much healing for me. Because when I’ve been curious about something and I’ve followed that nudge. It led me to Reiki it led me to grief recovery first. But it led to so many things before that since 2014 when I started this personal development and my own healing. So and embrace it. As you know if you are an empath and you feel deeply. It’s not something to curse in your life, like I did for so long. Embrace it as a gift.
P.S. Thank you so much for listening today. We went deep. Like I love like I love doing. So I hope you found this episode. Inspiring, insightful, helpful. All the things If you did, please share it with someone you love and care about. Or give me five star review, which would be lovely. And it’s good karma. It’s just good karma. So, thank you again for being here. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Spirituality |
Victoria Shaw | The Cloaks We Wear
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Victoria Shaw is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified School Counselor in the State of Connecticut. She is also the author of four books, for tweens, teens, and adults, and the mother of two spirited, adult children.
Victoria shares the loss of her sacred, beloved self, as she refers to her then self; the part of herself who she always was, however, lost touch and connection with over the passage of time and the beginning of motherhood.
She shares how her life experience led her to the intuitive counseling work she does today, and also fully expressing her gifts as a medium and how that blends in and supports her work and her clients.
This episode has a gift of wisdom for everyone. There is something you will take from this, regardless if you identify yourself as a griever or not.
There is a lot of depth to this conversation, and we discuss the following topics and more:
- The mother identity – loss of self
- Leaning into the gift of being empathic + tips for empaths
- Intuition – the key to connecting to your higher self
- Grievers – How to know what to do next
- Answering the Question: Do we need to suffer to grow?
- What happens when we die?
- Unhelpful things, from Victoria’s perspective, we do as grievers to ourselves and others
- How to connect with a departed love one
Victoria speaks my language in this episode. You don’t have to be “into the woo” to get something out of this episode. In fact, I’m going to address the idea of the “woo” in Episode 27 where I share my Takeaways & Reflections (along with an amazing realization I had upon editing and listening back to this episode).
Listen with an open mind and an open heart, and if you do listen, know that it was meant for you to hear.
Our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. – Buddha
Resources Mentioned:
Connect with Victoria:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Welcome to another week of grieving voices. If you’re new here, thank you for tuning in. And if you’ve been around a while, thank you as well. Today, my guest is Dr. Victoria Shaw. And we are going to be talking about all sorts of stuff regarding theories, tools, techniques, her grieving story, of course, and also a little bit of the Woo, and which excites me. So, Victoria, how about you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself?
Victoria Shaw 00:39
Yay, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. So, I am an intuitive counselor, and coach and my, my journey. My story is that about, wow, 15 years ago, I started to, you know, I felt like a longing in my life, I felt like there was something something was missing. There was something I was supposed to be doing that I wasn’t doing. And I didn’t know what it was. And at that point, I had left a career in academic psychology, I had done some some book writing, which is something I always wanted to do, I was in the thick of being a mom, stay at home mostly stay at home mom at this point. But I just kept feeling this deeper longing, this deeper question, there was something else I was supposed to do. And because at that time to my kids were pretty complicated. And they were both struggling with different things. And those different things brought me a little bit further and further out of that left brained, mainstream box of how things should be done. And I started seeing intuitive healers and medical intuitive and energy workers and all sorts of things. And I started to just have my mind expanded more and more to these kinds of tools that maybe were not in my left brain Western trained toolbox. It was on that path. And I discovered that I, I had this gift of intuition. And intuition is something we all have, it’s that kind of knowing that you have that’s not something you’ve been taught. It’s not that something you can explain it with your logical mind. But it’s something where you know, it’s true. You don’t know why, you know, but you’re 100%, right. And everyone’s has an experience with their intuition. It’s but it’s not something that’s talked about a lot in our society. And it’s not something that most of us have been taught to nurture and taught to us. And for me, that intuitive call was really strong. Oftentimes my intuitive information borders on what people might call psychic, or like six sensory. And I realized that had this gift my whole life, I had the ability to get guidance for people, I had the ability to know things about people that I had no business knowing. I was a feeler so I could feel what other people were feeling. But because I didn’t have a frame of reference for understanding it, because it was so strong and I wasn’t using appropriate boundaries, I was sort of overwhelmed. And I’d kind of lost touch with the gift Enos of the gifts. And so this all started a journey for me to connect with my intuition and really develop it and turn it back into the gift that it’s meant to be. And now what I do is I use my intuition to support others in doing the same and tapping into their own inner resources and their own inner wisdom. So that they can get the most out of this human experience.
Victoria Volk 03:34
Do you feel like because I, I’m a feeler, I feel things deeply and working with, you know, I used to be a CNA in a nursing home and did hospice, home health care, things like that. And so you can definitely feel without things even need needing to be said I could and I just did not feel uncomfortable sitting with people in their grief, even though I myself am a griever. And maybe do you feel like when you consider yourself or know yourself to be aggrieved, or do you feel like that’s when we kind of? I don’t know, like, do you feel like not sure what I’m trying to ask here? I know what I’m trying to ask. I’m just so excited about this conversation. I feel like my intuition was kind of cut off in a way from my grief because of my grief, but at the same time, I was I would feel things with people. And I didn’t understand how why that was.
Victoria Shaw 04:43
Yeah, you’re saying a bunch of different things. No, it’s good. It’s good. It’s good. I’m gonna try to unpack them if I if I may. Look, I think especially people doing end of life work and that kind of care is such a beautiful gift to hold the space of This is how it comes through to say enlightenment, light, joy, peace, eternity, like with people that are passing over and knowing that even though that grieving process is so hard, and even though everything about our human existence tells us that death is the end, it’s not the end, it’s just a transition, it’s a transformation from one state of being your human state to another state of being where you’ll just be, you know, an energy spiritual being again. But holding people through that process is so powerful, and my readers, and I hope that I can share this and if not, I hope you have a good editor. I think that’s a gift that you have to hold people through that space and to hold the light through people through that space when they are grieving. And I think that’s a beautiful gift. I think it’s a gift that you came into this physical lifetime with. And I think your own personal grief experiences have actually helped you with that they’ve helped you understand even if you’re not always understanding that with your brain, your viscerally your body knows that there’s, there’s, there’s something to be gained through this process. Okay, so I hope that makes sense.
Victoria Volk 06:08
It does. And I just want to share briefly an experience that I just wrote about not that long ago. I think it’s fair post coming up. But my, okay, so 30 years after my dad passed, I was eight when he passed away, I had this inner knowing when I found out his only living sibling or his brother was dying of brain cancer. He was in the hospital, they didn’t know how much time he had left to live. I hadn’t seen him since my dad’s funeral, we were pretty much cut off from that side of the family. And I had this inner feeling that I needed to go see him. Even though I hadn’t seen him for 30 years. I didn’t know if he’d recognize me, he was diagnosed with brain cancer, I didn’t know if you’d recognize me what that experience would be like anything like that. And I open the hospital room door. And not it mean, it was just this, I can’t It was like magic. It was just this magical healing moment for I think both of us. And not, five minutes later, 10 minutes later, there’s a knock at the door. And here it was his daughter, one of his daughters and a cousin, I didn’t even remember meeting as a child who they live like, like across the country, and the neighboring state. And so that’s where I was like, wow, this, it was just a powerful experience for me. And I really want to the listeners to understand or to what they what I want them to hear in this is that we always do have that intuition, like you said, and it’s just listening to it. And it’s been open to it. And I want to know, tell us how you came to do this work? I know you said it was a medical intuitive. But what led you what was going on in your world? What was the grief that you then were told that you had to work through.
Victoria Shaw 08:00
So in the process of working with my kids and being introduced to all these different you know, out of the box healers, my pediatrician Believe it or not sent me to this medical intuitive and so she was she was mostly asking questions like, you know, did somebody have Lyme disease or what are some good supplements to treat my son’s ADHD and but in the process and working with me, she said you know, that it tested that I had this grief. And I you know was like what? You know, I hadn’t I lost I don’t think I even had lost my grandmother. Yeah, I lost my grandfather when I was young. But those those big t trauma Greeks were not something that were part of my life. And I was really like racking my brain over what do you mean grief? And she said, well, you know, it could be a loss of of like, you know, she said it was a loss of a sacred Beloved, that was the word that came through. And I was like, you know, she’s like, well, that sacred Beloved, could be part a part of yourself. Whoa, hey, oh my gosh, yes. And that was a big catalyst on my journey, because I really thought about, you know, the parts of myself that I had left behind when I was in high school, and I had certain dreams and ideas of how I wanted my life to work. And that sense of agency that we all have at that age, when you know, the sky’s the limit, and you had these big dreams, I realized wow, you know, I forgot about those things. And also, just my professional identity too, because I had been you know, someone who I’m an Ivy League trained research psychologist, and you know, I was doing my postdoc at Columbia and I had you know, so I had this big professional persona that I really left behind because a I didn’t love doing it. And B I wanted to focus on on having my family, but all of those threads were still they were longings, they were losses, and so it was part of the steps that I took to, you know, investigate and work on those losses that led me to the work that I’m doing now. She actually sent me to an astrologer. Believe it or not took me about three years before that. actually happened. From the time that I identified that she identified I had this loss of the sacred Beloved, which I think was parts of me to seeing the astrologer. But the astrology reading was like one of the most powerful experiences of my life because, you know, she read my chart, and you maybe don’t believe in this stuff until it happens to you. But she literally told me, you know, based on my birth date, and the time I was born, and where I was born, right, all of my hopes and dreams and all of those things that I had, you know, thought were were the case about myself when I was in high school and what I wanted to do with my life, she validated everyone, she was like, well, that’s your life’s purpose. That’s why you’re here and it was just like, and so it really did bring me home to that that beloved self that part of myself and and it was, you know, that was the catalyst for me moving forward on my own healing and and development journey to do the work that I do today.
Victoria Volk 10:54
I love that story. I love that story, how it all came about how, how you kind of found your way back to you right? And I feel like for me, it’s just only starting to happen. And in the last five years or so, I actually had my palms read.
Victoria Shaw 11:12
Oh, cool.
Victoria Volk 11:13
A lot of people that know that there. Yeah, I was, because I was so desperate to just why am I feeling the way I’m feeling? Why is why am I not fulfilling this? Like you said, it’s like this, I was work at home mom, or stay at home mom, too. I did things on the side. But I was always home with my kids. And I just had this deeper longing to like, I’m meant for more than there’s more to life than just this. And not, I don’t mean to, you know, not just this as far as being a mother, but I just felt a deeper knowing. Right, but there was more gifts that I had, that I wasn’t expressing.
Victoria Shaw 11:53
And I think a lot of moms feel that way, especially in our culture and society, right. But I also think like, whenever we go through an identity shift, there’s a loss. And so you know, anyone who has kids knows, right that when you become a mom, everything about your world changes, like in a big, profound way. And there is you know that part of myself before I was a mom, that’s like we hold on what happened to me. And I think every single, you know, mother goes through this to some extent, and it’s about remembering, you’re still you too, and that we don’t have to, you know, go headlong into that, you know, identity of a mom, but also, you know, the way our society set up and a lot of the tasks and things that we have to do as a parent, especially if you decide to become a stay at home mom or you lose, you know, you lose one identity, maybe to gain another, you know, it’s tricky. And it’s about valuing valuing yourself through the process, valuing your choices, because I think, you know, sometimes motherhood is not, you know, it’s something we, when you’re pregnant, I remember everybody comes up to you and tells you is so excited that you’re having this baby, and you get so much attention. And then when you have the child, it’s just like, you go into the background, right? It’s like moms aren’t important moms, you know. And so we have to learn, I think, and I think a lot of, I think there’s a lot of shift towards this, how valuable the role of mothering is, but also that you don’t have to sacrifice and like sublimate your entire self to this process of raising your offspring. Because I think that’s really disempowering and unfortunate and woefully unnecessary.
Victoria Volk 13:30
And that sparked a thought on me, as I was hearing you talking, I can remember, you know, my kids were, at one point all three in diapers. And because my oldest was quite stubborn. And I just, I didn’t like, I didn’t go anywhere. And when I did, it was like it, my kids are pretty good. But you know, how just society in general, like your baby is crying, it’s like, can you please shut that baby up, or, you know, if you don’t feel comfortable even nursing your child in public, or there’s, you know, it’s just motherhood itself then is almost attacked, like you feel attacked as a mother even just being with your children in public sometimes. And so I think that just adds to the grief of that feeling of and resentment, right, like think it just breeds resentment in a lot of ways. I think I’m pretty sure it did for me, because I think that.
Victoria Shaw 14:19
Yeah, and I think a lot of people feel unsupported. A lot of moms feel unsupported. And, you know, I think all of this is ripe for change. But I know that you know, these are some of the pitfalls that people experience especially with those those little ones. And you know, it’s like all the responsibility is on you for everything that goes wrong, right? But there’s no support, there’s no help. There’s no like, I think a lot of us get lost, lost in that feeling. And again, for me, I would not roll back the clock at all being a mom has been one of the most powerful transformative experiences in my life and what’s been the catalyst for the work that I do now and I work with in my work, I do a lot of work with parents because for me A big part of my own personal and spiritual journey came from that that parenting dance and from, you know, I learning about myself about I’ve been doing a lot of my healing work from being a mom and being a parent. And so, I love to support other people that are interested in using the journey that way as well. So, I am so glad that I took this, this and I love my kids too, you know, there’s that. But it’s, it’s it can be really, really, really challenging. And again, there is that a lot of women I think, do feel that grief, that loss of self. And then of course to your grieving other things, if you’re grieving the loss of a parent, if you’re grieving a loss of things from your childhood, you know, that will be activated too, because what happens with our kiddos is, you know, as they go through certain ages and stages, that often triggers stuff within us. And if we did not feel parented, the way that we, you know, was ideal for us. And no one was parented perfectly, because we live in an imperfect world. And it’s just you’re not going to no parent even, you know, the best is one is not going to get it 100% right. So that stuff comes up for us as well. And that can be triggered, too, with, you know, when we come to the table of parenting our own kids. So while that can be a complicated process, I also like to look at it as an amazing opportunity for healing and growth.
Victoria Volk 16:19
I 100% agree, my kids have been a mirror for me.
Victoria Shaw 16:23
Yeah, I do that. And if you recognize it, you get so much more out of it. And you’re more effective parent too.
Victoria Volk 16:30
Right? And but it wasn’t I couldn’t see it when they were little. And you know, so I look back with regret in that regard. And I try not to I’m working on for, you know, forgiving myself for that.
Victoria Shaw 16:42
It’s it’s a good idea. But it takes time.
Victoria Volk 16:45
It does. It’s layers right. What did that experience for you when going through at the time when you found that intuitive healer, and you started to unpack that, what she shared with you. And your parenting like at the same time simultaneous?
Victoria Shaw 17:03
Yeah, it was all at the same time and a lot of it. One thing that I had recognized is that I’m an empath. So, empaths are people that feel when other people are feeling like it’s happening to them. And so they’re highly sensitive souls, they’re very compassionate souls, there’s more people open up now to their empathic gifts than ever before, because we are in a point of planetary transformation. And so a lot of people are, you know, awakening up to things that you know, five years ago would not have been an option for them, but it’s just everything’s accelerated. But so empaths are just these really great feelers and we have these big compassionate hearts. But the problem is, if you don’t, if you’re not careful, if you’re not aware, if you’re not grounded, and you don’t have scrupulous boundaries, a lot of empaths really feel that, like, if I can feel it, I’m supposed to heal it, I’m supposed to do something about it. And they can start to start taking on the pains of the world and become very overwhelmed, and also become confused about what’s theirs, and what’s someone else’s. And so that was sort of the story of my life. And I was getting all of this intuitive information from my empathic abilities. And also, just because like basically all my intuitive channels were turned on, it was and it was just like, TMI, like psychic TMI was too much, and I was overwhelmed all the time. And so, I couldn’t, you know, find the the pieces of gold and all of the flood of information. So for me, it was about learning about boundaries, it was learning about, you know, with your kids, that real important thing about letting them be on their own damn journey, and knowing that they’re gonna make mistakes, and they’re gonna, like, get dinged up and bruise, just like you did. And it’s part of the process of life. And your job is not to take away their pain, and your job is not to keep them locked in a padded room, your job is to support them on your journey. And the best way to do that is keep turning it tuning into that inner guidance and saying, okay, they have a journey, it may not be the path that I would choose for them to follow, but that’s not my choice. How am I being called to serve right now to support them on their journey and, and sometimes the intuition whether intuition tells us to do is way different than what our mind thinks we should do. Um, so that was a big part of it, learning boundaries, learning about that. And as I started to learn to respect my kids on their journey, a magical thing happened because I started to, like, respect my own journey in my own life on my own mistakes and the and the things that maybe didn’t go so well in my life, where I could start to release those losses and and have forgiveness for myself and the people in my world that maybe didn’t show up for me the way I wish they had. And again, it was a process. It did not necessarily happen overnight. It can, it usually doesn’t. But so it was just such a powerful journey. And then through all of that, I just kept hearing the call, you know, from my intuition of what those next steps were, and I just kept following them and one of those next steps for me was to pursue my counseling degree and you know, I I already had this doctorate in psychology as a research psychologist, but I didn’t have the clinical training. And, you know, my brain wanted me to go back and become a clinical psychologist, because that’s like way more prestigious, but my heart said, No, you know, you need to do this other thing. So I did that. And I got exactly the training that I needed. And you know, I’ve just been following those breadcrumbs one step at a time, because that’s how our intuition speaks to us.
Victoria Volk 20:23
This is so in line with the conversations I’ve been having with friends, books I’ve been reading. Conversation couldn’t be more timely. Thank you for sharing all of that. You have a quote, on your on your website, and I wrote it down. It says, our sorrows and wounds are healed only when we touch them with compassion. Buddha said that, yeah.
Victoria Shaw 20:52
There you go.
Victoria Volk 20:56
But it is on your website, and I wrote it down because it is beautiful. And and so how does your work as an intuitive counselor differ from other types of counselors?
Victoria Shaw 21:08
Absolutely, I think that anyone who’s doing any kind of healing or helping work well, whether they recognize it or not, they’re tuning into their inner wisdom, because that’s where all their really amazing truth wisdom comes from. And I think that, you know, the more we can do that, the more effective we are in pretty much anything we do, but especially if you’re in a healing or helping profession. And so I really encourage people in those fields to tune into your intuition more. And remember a lot of the tools and trainings and things that we all learn in school, at some point, somebody had to think those up. And a lot of times, not always, but many of those were, you know, intuitively guided things. But for me, you know, I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak intuitively, and I’m really, I guy, I lead with that intuition. And so I have training, I’m trained in different modalities. But when I’m doing my counseling work, I always tune into my intuition first, and I let that be the guide. And then, of course, if if, you know, my intuition tells me to use this particular strategy or particular tool based on all the things that I’ve learned over the years, I will absolutely do that. But I lead with my intuition first, because I think that’s where the gold is. And I think that the more we can tune into our inner wisdom, that’s, you know, and we didn’t get it, we didn’t really talk about this yet. But for me, I believe that your intuition is your connection to your higher self, it’s your connection to spirit, it’s like the direct line to your soul. And when you can start to live your life from that place, oh, my God, everything changes. And most of the people that come to me are people that you know, have signed up for this journey. And you know, they’re really ready to get more than just sitting in a therapy room and like, talk and talk and talk in and in staying at the level of the mind, they want that big, you know, enlightening experience. And they really want to start to tune into their own inner wisdom, and they really want to start to live their life from a more soul based perspective. So they are all for that. Occasionally, when I’m doing the counseling work, someone just finds me on psychology today. And you know, that’s fine too, because I don’t put the gifts away just because people don’t want to hear them, I can, I can do it either way, but more and more people are coming for that full experience. And sometimes that’s me just giving guidance, I’m not giving advice, which isn’t, which come from my mind and what I think people should do, but giving guidance, meaning I’m tuning into their highest wisdom, and you know, into their soul, their spirit guides, whoever you want to think about it. And I’m becoming a conduit for them to you know, hear the call of their soul. And that’s a big part of what I do both in counseling and in my you know, spiritual coaching work. And that’s like one of my favorite things to do. And sometimes that guidance will give me tools and strategies that they can use sometimes, you know, that will give me a particular if it’s in a counseling setting, or a content specific counseling modality that we might want to try. But again, I always leave with my intuition.
Victoria Volk 24:06
So, what would you say to someone listening and griever listening? You know, we’ve talked a lot your higher self and and I, like, I’ve been really digging into all that stuff myself lately. Um, what would you tell a listener, a griever? Listening? Yes. How to know. And how to have the awareness as to what should their next step be if they’re ready to get help? Because, and yeah, I’ll let you answer that.
Victoria Shaw 24:35
Okay. Yeah, that’s a great question. And there’s a lot of questions embedded in that one little question. First of all, it’s different for everybody, right? Because we are all beautifully, you know, unique. And so what will work for you now in this moment of time is specific to you, and only you and it could change in a minute because the only constant in this world is changed. So that said, you know, in terms of seeing Help first of all you’ll know if you’re uncomfortable if you’re feeling like I don’t want to sit with this anymore I’m so ready then please you know move forward and and get some support and support can come in lots of different ways from lots of different places you know sometimes we’re afraid to kind of and you get this a lot with therapy or pn and also at the intuitive work where people don’t you know, they’re afraid that the answer will like destroy them and it’ll be too much. So always trust your you know, I would, I would be kind to yourself with those fears. Remember that a good therapist or a good helper is going to go with you gently. And that usually the thing that we don’t want to open the thing that we don’t want to address once we crack the lid and let it breathe, it actually gets better not worse, right? It’s like if you ever like a really stinky, stinky stinky pot and you just keep it closed and everything keeps festering like the longer you keep the lid on the groceries gonna smell if you take the lid off in a supportive and loving environment, you know, maybe outside if it’s a sticky pot and you let it breathe a little bit then you can kind of get in there and clean it out. And so therapy works this way and you know, in terms of tuning into who to work with and and how to do that work always follow your intuition if something doesn’t feel right it probably isn’t and so go where you feel drawn go where you feel called go where you feel safe and comfortable and yes, there are always times when we’re challenged and we feel a little bit like uncomfortable too so you you want to start from that place of comfort so if something is uncomfortable, you have a relationship with somebody else who can hold that space for you and you probably know this from the work that you do because we need to be comfortable have a backdrop of comfort right before we want to start touching the uncomfortable that makes sense or at least it’s one way to do it some people just like to rip the band aid off and and dive into the acid bath and do it that way but that’s just not how I work personally I’m all about you know, being comfortable and the other thing that comes through and I’m sure you’ve addressed this before in your podcast but it’s coming through to share now you know grief comes in many different ways and many different forms and it’s different for everyone and you know it can be you know, it can be the loss of a cat it could be the loss of an identity it can be it can be so it can be the loss of a significant loved one it can be so many things you know grief happens to us all the time throughout the lifespan because again the only constant is change and so we’re always shifting and growing you know those grief moments are just so right for our own personal and spiritual development and if you can hold yourself through them and get support and you know come to that experience with as much consciousness as you can muster in that present moment it is just it’s an amazing opportunity for your spirit to shine and for you to actually get to a place of experiencing even more joy and the word that comes through is enlightenment in your life.
Victoria Volk 27:57
So much goodness in there. So, what would you say then to someone who feels like well you know what, yeah, I have grief but I also have trauma. I had traumatic experiences happened to me, how does that change their grieving experience if they’re so in that identity of probably more of a victim I suppose. If you’ve had like traumatic experiences versus grief of you know a loved one or something you may not feel like a victim as much maybe I don’t know. I don’t want to compare because that’s not what we do in grief recovery work we don’t compare lives but just the word trauma in itself.
Victoria Shaw 28:43
First of all loss is always traumatic right it’s it’s very rare to have any kind of loss where there isn’t a little bit of trauma and trauma is something that sometimes you know, we think of traumas big things like being abused or you know, being in a car accident or losing a loved one or and those things are definitely traumatic but we get traumas all the time big and small throughout our life and for me traumas anywhere where you know the outer world doesn’t match your inner magnet magnificence and there’s a spiritual being in human form which I think we all are there’s a lot of opportunities for those little things and bruises to happen over the course of our life and you know so trauma can be like you know, I don’t know if we discussed this example before but what comes to mind is you know, you’re four years old and you really you’re at the toy store and you really want that toy for a fire truck and mom rather than just saying no, I’m sorry, honey, you know, we have to wait for Christmas shames you and says we you shouldn’t want that and that’s too much money and like you’re a greedy little child to ask for that. So that’s really traumatic and we we have those experiences unfortunately or fortunately all the time throughout our life. And so, you know, we talk about trauma, it’s important to realize you might have trauma that you don’t even realize because you’re not identifying those things as traumatic experiences when in fact They can be. But we also know you know, in the clinical literature that people that have had a lot of what we call big t traumas, or a lot of little t traumas, firetruck is a little cheap trauma. You know, a rape is a big t trauma, but they’re both equally traumatic in their own special ways. Those people can have more complicated grief, where, you know, a grieving loss just stirs up a lot of other kind of trauma. And you know, I often say that trauma is the gift that keeps on giving. Meaning that we have many opportunities to keep working on it again and again, through our life, because it will often become re re triggered and we all become re traumatized. And, you know, from the perspective of someone who’s suffering, this seems like a bad thing. But again, it’s from a spiritual perspective, it’s just your soul giving you more opportunities to explore the issue so that you can grow and it’s really a beautiful thing because you’re able to explore that from different perspectives until eventually you’re able to find peace with it. And and that’s to me what the healing process really is, it’s not to be forced, but eventually we start to find peace with these losses and peace with all of our human experiences. And it can take you 10 minutes, I don’t know anyone for whom is taken 10 minutes or it can take you, you know, 12 lifetimes. But that’s, that’s the ultimate, you know, goal. I think for most of us.
Victoria Volk 31:20
I want to get your thoughts on something because I read something today, and it really struck me. And it’s, I think it’s something that’s going to stick with me. And it’s often something I guess something I’ve wondered, but I never really like you know, we read something in the perfect timing.
Victoria Shaw 31:36
Right? Always.
Victoria Volk 31:38
So, I want to ask you, I want to get your perspective of this. So, I read that so people will say well, do you have to suffer in order to grow and then what I read was that by our own thoughts, we attract suffering like we put ourselves in positions and situations and circumstances it’s it’s like an addiction. Yeah, suffering. And one thing that I struggled with for over 30 years was feeling as though I am I’m just here to suffer. Oh, you know, because I’ve suffered for so long, like just in my own mind and my own thought process in my just, you know, all these different things and it’s like, Why do these things keep happening to me right over and over and so I want her I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Victoria Shaw 32:32
Alright, so for you specifically, if you don’t mind what I would say is if you can shift that belief system you’re already shifting it so it’s, it’s, it’s kind of a done deal, but maybe someone else who has that belief system will want to hear this to you know, understand that life is happening for me, not to me, and again, doesn’t mean that you have to like it, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be pissed, please have whatever feelings that you’re having, because that will help you release that belief system. But yeah, if we have a belief system, that life is about suffering, or that things are happening to me, meaning latest torturing me, life is against me, life is not against you, you know, there’s a higher part of yourself that planned every damn experience you have in your life for your own learning and growth, to help you remember the magnificence of who and what you really are. And is suffering necessary on that journey? No, is it the way that most of human life has worked up until now? Yeah. And you know, if we go back to Buddhists because we quoted the Buddha earlier, you know, what the Buddha would say is suffering is a mental construct, it’s all in your mind, it’s how you approach life and you create suffering by the way that you approach your life and the thoughts that you have and your resistance to that deep flow of life and just the fact that things are happening as they’re meant to happen. And again, you know, a spiritual bypass here would be to say, Well I have to be happy with everything No you are human my friend and it’s so it’s more about you know, being kind and sitting with that humaneness while at the same time holding that that broader perspective and so yes when we get into that victim mentality if that’s all we think we are and we just think life is just here to kick my ass and I this is how it goes and I don’t deserve more and we become resentful of it this can keep us stuck in more crap happening for us and more misery but the way out of that is not to kick yourself over the head even more the way out of it is to just notice Oh wow, you know, this is of course I would think this way given my life experience and everything I knew up until now and of course, now I’m starting to see glimmers that there could be something else and let me follow that and let me be as tight as heck to myself in that process as I explore this, and I allow that new awareness to come in for me, and then it will, I promise every single time.
Victoria Volk 34:43
You hit on something, I don’t know if you set it exactly, but like for me personally like gaining new knowledge, new tools, following the my intuition of what I needed to read what I needed to experience what I needed to I’ve drawn people circumstances, books, things to my life that I needed to ever get to a level of awareness that I have now about my emotional, inner climate.
Victoria Shaw 35:12
And everything happens in divine timing. So, you will always be led to those things that just the right time and then the more you’re open to it, and the more you start following, and the more you start listening to the inner wisdom, and they usually come as breadcrumbs, it doesn’t usually come the way your mind would like it like the complete answer all at once for the next 50 years, right. They’re usually little glimmers of try this, follow this, maybe you should go talk to that person, maybe it’s time for you to go visit your uncle, right? I mean, that was a profound experience that you had. But when we start following, and listening to these inner nudging things, they get louder, because we start to like, agree to, you know, co create our lives with our inner wisdom. And so more and more you will, you will be guided in more and more that guidance will lead you to a place of calm and peace and center. And if there are struggles to be had, they’ll be you know, streamlined for just the ones that you need to get the most, you know, bang out of your buck. And our inner wisdom will also show us how to navigate those, like struggles which everybody has, you know, the best way possible.
Victoria Volk 36:17
Yeah, gosh, I’m loving this conversation. What would be one thing that either others did, or that you found was helpful for you. When you probably just maybe before you found that intuitive? counselor? You know, or know, the doctor intuitive doctor, correct?
Victoria Shaw 36:38
Yeah, I mean, I found a lot of people. But yeah, before that particular experience, you know, I think there was a period where it was really helpful for me to connect with other people that were going through the same thing that I was, and having that same story, and you know, feeling those losses. And I think that that can be really important for people to feel heard by other people that are having a similar experience. But I also think that you don’t want to get some people, that’s where they get stuck. That’s where they get lost their identity becomes I’m the one who’s had trauma, I’m the mother who has lost her sense of identity, or, you know, are, I’m the person I’m the motherless child, right. And so we want to be really careful about the identities that we take on because once we identify with something, it becomes locked, it becomes part of our sense, our false sense of self. And it can keep us from growing and changing and continuing to align with our highest guidance and, and growing in this human container. So that was really helpful for me to feel heard. But I also think and to know that I wasn’t alone in this, but then there was also those other people that were starting to show me the way out of it, and the show me the way through it. And that’s a different thing. And so we just don’t want to get kind of locked into our pain stories. But again, that pain just wants to be heard. And for me, in that earlier phase of my journey, it was just so validating to have people go, you know, yeah, of course, you feel this way. And reading books about other moms that had felt that was really empowering and powerful, and helped me not feel like I was alone, which is, I think something a lot of people really want and need.
Victoria Volk 38:09
I tried to bring hope in the work that I do. When I’m communicating, I want there is another side to this, you know if if I can find it, so can you with, I mean, I’ve, I’ve heard just terrible stories of how people found in my work that I do grief recovery, and how it’s changed and transform their lives. But I see it though, on social media, too. It’s where it’s almost like, sometimes like when like traditional grief support groups where there’s no action, where it’s like you said, you’re just repeating the same story, I see that a lot online. It’s almost like a support group, but it’s online.
Victoria Shaw 38:50
Yeah, and it can be like after and it’s interesting, because a lot of people I’ve worked with through grief and particularly loss of loved ones will say or sometimes I work with a lot of special needs parents too. So that’s another form of grief when you’re grieving the loss of the child that you thought you were going to have. And every parent goes through that a little bit because you know, if we’re paying attention our kids are now not the idealized things that we imagined they would be before we had them but when you have a special needs child that’s even or chronically ill child that can be even more so. And people will say oftentimes, you know those support groups, you know, they they can feel so good at first but oftentimes when people are paying attention to a certain point they’re like I’m done with it. It’s over I’ve gotten as much as I could get from this now I’m ready for something more because they don’t want that to be their story for life. I’m the mom of a special needs child and that’s gonna be it forever right? We want we want to be heard through our human experiences but we also want that flexibility to grow and change and and know on the highest spiritual level and this may or may not resonate with your listeners, but I’m gonna say it anyway, know that that’s who you really are. That’s just the little cloaks that you’re wearing through various times of your human experience and so I think that that is super important that you know you don’t get lost in that.
Victoria Volk 40:09
I’m like Yep, amen I resonate with that. I like to look at grief is like a veil that we wear. And we it’s you can’t see the mirrors in front of you. And you can’t see yourself when you look in the mirror either.
Victoria Shaw 40:24
Right, but you don’t have to wear that veil forever, if you choose not to when you’re ready, just like other kinds of grieving, right, it’s fine to take that off. And it’s not a disservice, especially when you’re grieving loss of another human. You know, if a loved one, it’s not a disservice to your loved one to move forward. Right. And we didn’t talk about this yet. But it’s my belief that when we die, we go back to spirit form, we don’t go away, the soul is eternal. And I believe this mostly because I have that ability to connect with entities beings and spirits that are not new physical form. And so that it has been very validating to me through my own experience, but our loved ones, they want us to be happy sometimes, especially when it’s been a complicated human relationship. And sometimes, you know, we have that where we lose someone, but that relationship wasn’t perfect. And sometimes when they die, we either think we have to pretend like it was perfect to honor their their passing or, you know, worse yet, we can’t ever process our losses now or our grievances now, because they’re gone. Neither of those things are true, you can continue to do your work, even with those deceased loved ones after they’re out of their bodies. And in the work that I do, I often see that happening. And I sometimes see our deceased loved ones showing up to facilitate that work that we still need to do because they often have a broader perspective, once they’re not encumbered by their human human word. I don’t know if it’s coming through fallacies, frailties, whatever, you know, we don’t always see things perfectly crystal clearly while we are still in human form, so we can continue to work on stuff, after our loved ones his have passed, we can say everything that we wish that we had said to them when they were living when they’re deceased, and they will hear us and they will often hear us without the same, you know, defensiveness that they might have heard us when they were in human form. So sometimes it’s advantageous, that you know, we wait until they’re past to work through some of this stuff. And you know, honoring a relationship and honoring someone is honoring them and their human imperfection. So it’s okay, if you have mixed feelings about someone who’s passed, you can still love them, they can still love you, even if all of the details of that human relationship were imperfect.
Victoria Volk 42:35
Oh, this is so good. I’m so glad that we connected, you know, and I believe too, you know, as a kid, you know, I saw my dad in his casket and as a kid, I just, there was no conversation about death or grief or anything. And so, you know, he was put in the ground, and I thought that’s what happens when you die. You’re put in the ground. And I didn’t have never felt that spiritual connection. I never felt a spiritual connection to a higher being or much less to myself until probably 2014. Yeah, I mean, it just took me so long to come around.
Victoria Shaw 43:14
It’s normal and natural to sometimes we look back in our lives, and we think something’s wrong with us, because it took us so long. Again, remember, divine timing, and we get the memo. It’s just the right moment. And sometimes I’m someone who has a late wake her up in a lot of sense. And that’s okay, that’s beautiful, because I needed every experience that I had in my life to get to where I am now. And I’m grateful to everyone and you can’t force that kind of feeling. I just feel it naturally. But just know that that’s there. That you know, every experience that you’ve had in this human life is supporting you to this moment now whether whether that feels right or not. And you know, there’s no, it’s the human mind that wants to say there’s a particular timeline there isn’t. And we need every experience that we have, and it’s perfect. You know, timing, whenever whatever is happening now is exactly what’s supposed to be so I hope that helps.
Victoria Volk 44:10
No, and I can say that now. I fully believe that now and I do feel a higher connection to myself into you know, yeah, but yeah.
Victoria Shaw 44:19
It’s worth it, right? You need, you need to get you to that place. And if you said probably to yourself, you know, 2030 years ago, listen, baby, this is the way you have to see things you probably would have like thrown a drink in your face. Right? You were because you weren’t ready.
Victoria Volk 44:36
I would have been drunk.
Victoria Shaw 44:40
Okay. Interesting that that particular image came through. Sorry for that. Its how the intuition
works.
Victoria Volk 44:47
Well, my life was a train wreck. So that very much was my story.
Victoria Volk 44:57
Yeah, I just it’s been a long track again when I was going straight
Victoria Shaw 45:03
Yeah and it’s it’s not meant to be and we often learn through these human experiences and you’ll be able to carry for and I’m sure you already do in the work that you do that understanding that you know even the trade rock can serve you it can serve you and it can get you there and again no part of human life is wasted and human experience is wasted it’s just that that judge everything.
Victoria Volk 45:27
So, what would you say is probably unhelpful things that people do for themselves or others who are looking to suffer who are looking to support others in grief in particular and maybe trauma as well.
Victoria Shaw 45:44
Yep. Unhelpful judging yourself judging how you’re having the experience judging yourself for judging yourself if you have that level of awareness right because it’s going to be different for everyone to whatever you’re feeling right now is just perfect for you and judgments going to shut down the process the other thing that can sometimes be unhelpful both for yourself as others is like that kind of you know spiritual bypassing kind of deal where you’re like I should feel grateful I should feel happy I should focus on the positives I should I should I should I should I should there’s no shoulds in the land of grieving there’s no there’s no shoulds in life really that service it should just judgment in disguise. And you know, again, you have to have your experience because Earth is an experiential realm we learn here by being human so be kind to yourself know whatever you’re experiencing is just right. If you have trouble being kind to yourself seek support find someone else to teach you and to be kind to you in the meantime and also it come through to say don’t try to go it alone. right a lot of times we believe that we got to do everything ourselves and that if we don’t do it ourselves it’s not good it’s not right but you know, this is Earth is a shared realm This is a shared journey. And so you know, it’s important to allow yourself to find and, and and connect with with significant others, be it friends, be it healers Be it helpers you don’t want to give your power away to those folks but you do want to know that you don’t have to do it alone and they’re supported every leg in the journey and if you open yourself up for it, it will always come could be a book could be a podcast could be in lots of different places you know, whatever your comfort zone is but you know be open to the fact that if you are open to that support support will always be there for you and you deserve that.
Victoria Volk 47:37
I can attest to that. Yeah, that was my experience. What would you say to someone listening to and I’m just as curious how to connect a lot departed loved one and then how to know when you are?
Victoria Shaw 47:53
Oh, I love that question. Okay, so connecting with your loved ones is a little bit like connecting with your intuition and that the first thing I’m going to say is Look, if you talk to your loved one they hear you okay and even if you’re mad at your loved one don’t worry about that because again, they don’t hear you with their ears like they did in human form if you had some grievances with your mom and now she passed away and you’re bitching at her you’re not going to get the same response back that you did when you were both in bodies and if you do that I promise you as your mind your mom is passed over she’s she’s not in that realm of pitching back at you and I hope that word was okay if not I can say it again in a cleaner language but um so that’s the first thing so but you can always talk to your loved ones they always hear you sometimes we have this feeling right if we don’t hear back right away or they loved us because we have that deep sense of loss and we feel that they’re not here and they’re not there they’re always even if you can’t feel them or see them or connect with them if you send it out there they’ll get the memo Okay, so So know that first and foremost that you can always talk to them and then if you imagine them talking back and that voice is loving and kind it is probably them if again they’re sounding like they’re beating you up or telling you how terrible you are or that’s probably the voice in your head. Because you know when our deceased loved ones move back into spirit form, they’re not so judgy anymore they’re not like perfected yet so again sometimes when people talk about spirit guides and they’re like it’s got to be my aunt Marge and I’m like she may be looking over you but your spirit guides actually are you know guidances of even higher levels that they’ve transcended the need to be in human form all together but like our once we leave the human body we do have a broader perspective and so you know, you’ll feel a loving kind energy so know that you can talk to them know that they’re listening know that you’re probably not imagining it nine out of 10 times you’re not imagining it. Oftentimes our loved ones will show us signs in the environment and people just know and if it brings you pleasure to think that you know every time you see a bird, it’s your mom, you know, coming back to say hello, and then do just go with that. You know, don’t overthink it, like enjoy that. It’s beautiful. And by the way, if you have that thought that You’re helping your deceased loved ones find a way to connect with you, which is what they want to do. So you know, if you imagine if you believe that the birds are that way, even if they didn’t get that idea yet, they’ll start doing that for you anyway. They’ll be like, oh, okay, that’s how you want me to communicate with you. I’ll be a bird. So it’s, it’s magical. And you asked one other question, I’m trying to find that in my brain. So hold on, Oh, you didn’t ask this. But this also comes through another way that our loved ones love to communicate with us is in our dreams. Because when we are in the sleep state, our minds are quiet, and we’re much more receptive. So if you dream that a loved one came and gave you a hug, or I used to always dream about my grandfather, that he was like, still alive. And then I’d be like, what, wait, he’s dead. I recognize now those were times that he was visiting me in my dreams and just saying, hello.
Victoria Volk 50:48
I don’t recall ever having one of those dreams.
Victoria Shaw 50:58
It’s different for everyone. We have a sense to write that our love. I mean, if there’s a lot of unfinished business, that our loved ones can’t hear us, if they’re not here, that they’re not, you know, why are they speaking to me, that’s a sign for you to heal your own grief. And that place of feeling abandoned by them, or whatever feelings came up at the time of the loss because they are there. And you know, sometimes healing that too well will help you make that connection. And it’s important to know too, and I hope this makes sense that you know, everyone’s on this human journey. And when we leave our bodies, we continue, you know, with a little bit of school about processing and unpacking what went on in our human life. And so you here on Earth, when you are working through whatever grievances or traumas or issues that you have with that loved one, will help them on their journey as well. And so you know, someone that leaves their body too soon, or leaves their family too soon, you know, like, they they may go out thinking like, Oh my gosh, like, what’s wrong with me that I can’t stick around and support my family, and the family might get the memo? Oh, my gosh, you know, this person left me too soon, they abandon me, right? Like as you work through your issues that work through those as well. And all of those things are ultimately misbeliefs. Because at the end of the day, again, everything happens exactly as it should. But it doesn’t always feel that way, and it doesn’t have.
Victoria Volk 52:17
I can speak from experience. And when I was with my uncle, I felt the most connected to my dad and I ever had.
Victoria Shaw 52:26
But that’s because it was your dad prompting you because he had, he had unfinished business with that family line. And he really wanted before your uncle passed, for you to be the conduit of connecting reconnecting all of you guys back together, and he wanted to help you with that. for him. It was important for him it was important for your uncle, and it was important for you. So, he was very much prompting you and guiding you and he says good job at listening if he wants you came through just a little. But I think the longer conversation would be for another day and another context.
Victoria Volk 53:06
I’m just like, well, I got chills.
Victoria Shaw 53:10
Okay, and so that shows for listeners another way that you would know chills are amazing body signal when you feel that in your body chills is one of my favorite intuitive markers. Victoria because you can’t make it up. Right? You can’t make that up. When we feel the chills. It’s like oh my god. And I have a colleague and friend, she gets the chills for me. Like whenever we’re together and I asked her something, she’ll be chills, chills. And it’s like such it’s so validating. So yes, that’s another way that you’ll know it’s sometimes you’ll have that full body experience that you can’t make up and that’s a marker that Yes, he did come through and he’s around you all the time. And sometimes it’s our own grief that blocks our ability to connect with our loved ones and to know that they’re there to feel their love, but that’s okay, too. It’s all part of the process.
Victoria Volk 53:54
I would agree with that. Yeah. What I’ve been learning, and I actually got chills earlier in this interview.
Victoria Shaw 54:03
Pay attention to that. It’s so powerful.
Victoria Volk 54:06
Oh man, this is so so so great.
Victoria Shaw 54:09
Thank you
Victoria Volk 54:10
Is there anything else you feel the listeners need to hear?
Victoria Shaw 54:17
Yeah, I think just that grief is a natural normal part of life. And you know, sometimes we feel like we’re the only one it’s happening to and that is happening to us like there’s something wrong with us for either the way that we’re responding to the grief or that you know, we had the loss in the first place or you know, all of the above Be kind to yourself, be patient with yourself. No, it’s a it’s a process of life but it’s not fun. It’s not easy. But it’s also can be if you if you take the challenge and amazing conduit to transformation and growth and in that it’s a really, really good and powerful thing. And that nothing in life, like we said before is wasted and so it’s the more that we bring the light of consciousness to our human experiences that we can grow and change and transform.
Victoria Volk 55:04
Amen, I agree so good. So, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Victoria Shaw 55:11
Alright, so I have a couple of different things going on I do one to one sessions with folks all over the world and also intuitive counseling sessions in Connecticut where I’m a licensed professional counselor. And to do either of those things you would find me at my website which is Victoria Shaw, intuitive calm, so pretty easy My name plus the word intuitive calm and then I also have a lot of free offerings and teachings that I love to do on my website I have this is not free, it’s a paid course I have a paid course on activating your intuition which is a self paced online course with some tools and strategies to help you leverage the power of your inner wisdom and tap into your intuition more I also have a podcast which that is completely free intuitive connection podcast where I talk all about tools and strategies to awaken your intuition and all topics, intuition and spirituality plus I have a lot of amazing amazing guests and I’ve also started doing some fun readings on the show which has been really cool as well because oftentimes, you know, we we hear ourselves through other people’s stories, and let’s see what else I have a pretty active presence on instagram. Victoria, Shaw intuative is my handle and on Facebook and I am in the process of building an amazing Facebook community intuitive connection community where I’ve been doing a lot of free teachings, weekly readings and visits with all of the guests from our podcast episodes so that is a really fun place to find me as well so that’s intuitive connection community on Facebook and I think that covers it.
Victoria Volk 56:49
Lots of places to find you. That’s awesome. Thank you thank you thank you so much for being a guest on my podcast and I have no doubt that what people needed to hear came through today and that it’ll be beneficial thing I really enjoyed though.
Victoria Shaw 57:07
Thank you, its my pleasure and my joy as well. Thank you so much.
Victoria Volk 57:12
All right. Well, if you love this episode, I would love for you to give Victoria Shaw’s episode a five star review. Tune in next week for another episode and until then, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
