Ep 86 | Moussa Mikhail

Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Growth, Mental Health, Pespective, Podcast, Suicide | 0 comments

Moussa Mikhail | Mission for Self-Mastery

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY

Do you want to know where to start if you’re tired of settling for the conditions and circumstances of your life?

Ask yourself the question Moussa asked himself and start there.

What was the question?

“What are you trying to forget?”

When we get tired of our past circumstances creating chaos and dictating how far we go to reach our dreams, it takes introspection and committing to self-mastery to create change in our lives.

Self-mastery embodies Moussa’s mission today, but before he got to this point, he endured some challenges and hardships, as many people do. But, not everyone will do something about it. A growth mindset can be ignited through loss and grief, but it doesn’t have to take these things to experience growth. We can also learn from our environment and from signs and signals our body gives us.

Moussa and I discuss the challenges that have shaped him and how evolving with his grief and not fighting it has led to healing and awareness through tools and techniques he shares in this episode.

You will find resonance in Moussa’s message if you are a veteran or service member. However, we all go through hard times, even when not in the military. Let Moussa’s message inspire you to stop settling and take small steps to self-mastery.

RESOURCES:

• Ep. 70 Scott Mann | Retired Green Beret on Leadership, Afghanistan, & Grief
• Book | What Happened to You?

CONNECT:

• Website
• Instagram
• Podcast | The Conqueror Approach

Victoria Volk 0:08
This is Victoria of the Unleashed heart calm, and you’re listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss as a 30 plus year Griever. In advanced Grief Recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate gravers and non Grievers alike, spread hope and inspire compassion toward those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with ears and this platform, Grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather? Let’s get started.

Victoria Volk 0:56
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Moussa Mikhail. He is a submarine, Navy veteran, podcast host entrepreneur, speaker, coach and author based out of Las Vegas, Nevada, he spent cumulatively over two years of his Naval Service underwater, and use that time to develop himself and plan his entrepreneurial ventures. He operates a real estate business and his media coaching company. He’s host of the conquer approach podcast about a journey of self mastery, mind, body, spirit and finances. It has been streamed in 30 countries today, he has dedicated his life to spreading the principles of mastery and empowering others to live their most authentic and highest potential. I love that last line. I’m all about that, too. So what brings you to grieving voices and thank you for being here too, by the way.

Moussa Mikhail 1:52
Thank you, it’s my privilege to be here. And, you know, I love the work that you’re doing. And I feel like the conversations that happen on these topics need to happen more often than not now. And then my military service. You mentioned a little bit I was on a submarine. So it was definitely mentally challenging. Right, because it’s it’s a different lifestyle. Most people aren’t used to being in a tube for weeks, months, on in. So it was a it was a big adjustment. At first, I was actually really afraid to do it. To be honest, I didn’t want to be in a tube. I love being outside. I love nature. And the thought of being isolated, in confinement for extended periods of time didn’t really get me excited.

Moussa Mikhail 2:50
And I used that to really challenge myself out of my comfort zone because it was extremely out of my comfort zone. If there’s one thing the Navy offered, that was outside my comfort zone the most it was probably the submarines. And that’s what I ended up with. So I somehow attracted that to my life. And I figured I would do my best and and use it to challenge myself mentally and get get past it. I did, I had a very successful tour as a Submariner. And I still don’t feel fulfilled. That’s why I got out to do my entrepreneurial things. Now, a lot of it’s to give back to those who are serving, and others who are just struggling with their mindset to get get through that. Those challenges whether it’s on a submarine or anywhere else, because the military has a lot of issues with mental health, and people are not talking about it enough. And a lot of it is in a way stigmatized, like it’s a negative for you to go seek mental help, sometimes and it shouldn’t be that way. So a lot of my mission now is to help people on their journeys get a little bit better, mindset Wise Health and Fitness wise, spiritually, and even finances. So that’s really what is driving me now.

Victoria Volk 4:08
It’s a whole body approach. It’s you know, because there’s not just one part of us that suffers typically, especially with grief. It’s the whole of us, and how we show up in the world and our relationships and how we, how we have a relationship to our money and everything, right spirituality, faith, all of it. So I absolutely love that. And just to your point about the military, and the mental mental health, I mean, there’s been a lot of push and a lot of forward momentum in that department. But just even two years ago, I was at a mental health summit. And I had a booth there with my grief work. And I listened to a bunch of speakers and talkers and stuff and there was a veteran who shared his story of attempted suicide, which was completely was really truly moving. But what I didn’t hear In all of the talks about suicide, was the word grief wasn’t mentioned once. And so I think too, it’s my push is to get people talking about grief, because that’s the route. Really, I believe, that leads people down that path often, can you share your personal story of how this work has evolved for you?

Moussa Mikhail 5:25
Yeah, and I love that because grief is a crucial element, if not the most important because it’s when we’re not effectively processing traumas, or grieving. You know, whether it’s something that we’ve developed as children, any traumatic experiences as the lead up to us being unable to process our emotions in a healthy way, those things over time compound, to really affect the brain in a lot of ways. And then you see things like suicide, or just mental health, mental health issues, mental illness, those things don’t just happen overnight. Right? You wouldn’t want to just wake up one day, and then like, oh, today’s the day that I’m going to lose my mind. Right? It’s a process. It’s a sequence of events, it’s a timeline of development issues, compounded over each other, that lead to these really bad things or just issues that in as a society, I really love the book that just recently came out, I think called What happened to you by Dr. Bruce Perry, and Oprah. And it’s kind of to change the narrative of what’s wrong with you, to what happened to you. And a lot of it is the failure to get support and process things like grief, trauma, right? It’s those things that undealt with, ignored,

Moussa Mikhail 6:58
lead to very, very serious issues. And then we as a society, we look at those people’s like, what the hell’s wrong with this guy? Or this woman? Like, why would they do that? Or why? Or why are they crazy, or whatever the case is, whatever labels we put on them, instead of looking deeper, like what happened? What’s causing that. So in my military service, at the end of 2019, on my submarine, and Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, there was a guy that I served with, I knew, and I noticed there was a lot of things off, but I wasn’t as knowledgeable on these type of things. And I really started taking it more seriously after this event. And I noticed there was things off, and I never thought it would get to a very, very serious point like it did. But at the end of 2019, right before Christmas, there was a lot of things that led up to it, I’m sure but then this particular sailor, on watch on when to M M for rifle and a pistol decided to shoot to Hawaiian shipyard workers that he didn’t know. He killed them. And then he took his own life there. So is active shooter. My submarine I wasn’t there at the time, because I was dealing with processing out of the Navy. However, I have a lot of good friends that were there, you know, and, and then people calling me all over right? I had no idea what was going on people calling me from the base because they hear the they hear the announcement active shooter on USS Columbia shipyard whatever. And they don’t know what’s going on. And I didn’t know what’s going on. So I feared the worst. I didn’t know who was getting hurt. And then at the end of it, it was it was two innocent civilian, Hawaiian men who are great engineers, who had families had no idea that was coming had nothing to do with that. Sailor, then know him, never even probably talked to him for a minute of their lives, and they lost their lives because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The thing that bothered me the most was this is a common thing in the military is they don’t really make these things public as much right? Obviously, that was a public event, because that was a very serious event made headlines. But what was the response of the Navy from that? You know, and this is not to bash the military, they want to protect their image. So they can continue to recruit people and not think that people are committing suicide all the time in the military, like no one would want to join if they have, and they’re like, Why the hell people are killing themselves because they’re in the military. So they use they do the best they can to, to make it hidden. And I saw that firsthand, because I was on the submarine. When when high level men came down and said, you know, this is an isolated incident. You guys had nothing to do with it. And they did. Didn’t take any ownership for it, which is the opposite of what people needed. Right? These things don’t just happen. There’s a lot of things that we could have took a lot of things we could have done to potentially prevent it. And not to beat ourselves up. Something like that is a tragedy. But what could we have done? How can we take this more seriously? How can we actually help people? Right? And for me, I have a strong feeling that he had went through some serious trauma before he joined the military because he was young guy who’s 22. Right. So he came in, and since day one, he had a lot of emotional walls, his communication was off. Some things didn’t make sense. It was disorganized, in speech. So I, a lot of psychologists can notice a lot of those things are actually signs of serious trauma, which can lead up to things when put under an extreme situation for a long period. And he was on a submarine for about a year and a half. And it was it was a challenging experience for him, it was hard for him to grasp what we’re doing there. So that’s another thing when people aren’t learning. It’s not that they’re stupid, or dumb. Right? Which what people would default saying, Oh, you’re stupid, like, why can’t you learn this? There’s actually parts of the brain, when you’re dealing with a lot of serious trauma, it prevents you from using the other parts of your brain that help you learn faster, or understand comprehension is different when you have a lot of hard issues that have not been dealt with. So he definitely needed some help before, right preventatives things, right. And that’s, that’s kind of what you know, I’m working to do with the podcast experts and specialists and these types of conversations, health and nutrition, because obviously, the body has a big role, the mind and the body is, is connected. If the mind is not in a good state, the rest of the body won’t be a good state. And a lot of those pains and aches and diseases that we have in our bodies are indications of our mental health not being there. So these are all signs. And then that’s kind of what I love talking about helping people understand the signs, so they can continue to work on themselves. So these types of things can happen less and happen, never ideally, right. And those other instances of suicide that I heard about, even when I was active duty, and I never even like they didn’t even give us the names of the guys. It was just kind of like let’s keep this in the dark. Let’s not even talk about I know those didn’t make the news headlines, but it was happening.

Moussa Mikhail 6:58
And those are why like, why is this happening? So this is, this is why I love these types of podcasts and have these conversations because like you said, those families still grieve I’m sure to this day, right? This is right before Christmas. Like those families are missing their fathers or uncle’s, whatever the case is, and I believe those preventable,

Victoria Volk 12:58
You said a lot in there. And I have a few thoughts that I’d like to just circle back to coming back to what you said about what happened to you in that book. That’s what I’ve, I’ve actually said that in a podcast. I don’t know who was interviewing. But imagine if someone who’s feeling depressed or having depressive thoughts goes into a doctor’s office, how often do they say, What happened to you? Never, I think I mean, that’s the first line people don’t go to the doctor when they’re feeling awesome. You know, they go to the doctor when they’re feeling badly. And oftentimes, that can be the first line of defense is someone saying what happened to you? And the most important question, to open up a bigger conversation about where really what’s going on and what what is possibly needed in further treatment rather than just a pill. So that’s one thought. I’m a veteran, as well. And just being at that mental health summit, and on my rotation to Iraq, we lost three guys. And I know that there was no communication about grief. There is no like, even out processing right, though. And here’s the thing, too, I think a lot of soldiers will resonate with and understand you probably to, you will lie, so that you can advance your career. And you will lie to not feel less than and if you’re struggling with your mental health. It’s I think it’s especially hard for people in the military to admit to that. And so like you said, to your point, it trickles from the top down. And I think if the leadership lead by example, in this department, that’s what will ultimately change the conversation around grief, suicide prevention, suicide communication, it’s educating soldiers to Understand what the signs are to understand that you’re not a snitch that you could be potentially saving that person’s life or the lives of others. Right. It’s a big conversation, I think. And I, maybe it’s happening more than we think. I hope so actually, later this week, I’m having a conversation with Scott, man, he runs the rooftop leadership. He was a Greenbrae. In Afghanistan. I’m very interested in having this this particular conversation with him as well, about leadership and the top down and and grief in particular, can you bring up another good point? It’s, you know, the gentleman that did that, and how he probably had trauma and things that were on process. I actually had that mental health summit, I even asked the therapist I said, you know, why don’t why doesn’t the military implement some sort of a study? questionnaire. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the ACE study, adverse childhood experiences, but if they actually made that like a screening tool for servicemen and women, because someone who deploys, who then further experiences more trauma and grieving experiences those and they had a really traumatic childhood. They’re exponentially greater risk for suicide, anxiety, depression, all of those things. So yeah, you spoke to the sign. So can you share a little bit more about that and what you’ve learned about all of that?

Moussa Mikhail 16:38
Yeah, I’ve learned that I can sit there and be upset that the military didn’t do enough, we’re going to do whatever. But that that’s not going to resolve the issues at this moment. Right, it’s not gonna allow me to do the most I can do right now. And you said it, you said it really? Well, it really is. I think that’s a great idea, getting some type of questionnaire take at least screen people in this way, there should be some mandatory mental health checks, work to actually process that stuff, because people bottle it in for so long, and has to go somewhere at some point. And if people don’t understand how to deal with it, it gets big, it’s bad. I’ve noticed a lot of things from that when I’ve reviewed his behavior. You know, it’s usually these weird or off behaviors indicate that like trauma, something or the inability to communicate clearly, or just like stonewalling or like, just anger, shaking, those types of things. We should be inquiring more like, he was like, what, what happened? Like, we should have deeper conversations, because then people can start to realize, because when people make or have any traumatic experience, when they’re younger, they might not consciously make the link between that experience and their behavior. Or why, you know, they might have not been able to make that link, but aside from a trauma to someone’s inability to learn, or to catch along or grasp concepts, right, it’s, there’s links between all that though, and I think that they that they have one of my leaders who were actually he was in a disciplinary review that day. And at a certain point, he stopped responding. And he started shaking, which I don’t know all the reasons why that can happen to someone. But I know there’s definitely, there’s a lot going on there. A lot of emotion that that person doesn’t know how to deal with or process so it just shuts them down and have their bodies involuntarily doing things. There’s things that there’s emotion there. There’s a lot of emotion there. There’s a there’s anger, there’s sadness, there’s a lot of things. Right. So because the body responds in a certain way, that can tell us, there’s a lot of stuff here that hasn’t been dealt with, there’s a lot of energy that hasn’t been processed. Emotion is energy in motion, a lot of energy that hasn’t been removed effectively, it’s still there. And that’s why people can need that it’s always a good idea to get some type of mental health because even me, I’ll say I’m pretty intelligent in this conversation and these types of things. I can only see myself from my perspective. There’s things that I won’t be able to see until somebody else can give me that feedback. Right and Give me the feedback of how I’m reacting and responding to things. So it’s important for us to implement some type of way to create a support system where people feel safe enough to talk about these things, whatever traumas they’re facing, right. And since then, I’ve been doing a lot of work on on me, because leadership Begins With Self. Right. And that’s kind of the whole idea of my show, the quote that got me to name the show was a Plato quote, called the first and best victory is to conquer self. So leadership is a leadership of self first. So the problem we have isn’t just like, Oh, this guy came into the Navy, we issues and it became bigger and bigger until someone died, or he killed himself. A lot of the leaders don’t know how to process their emotions either. But a lot of leaders don’t know. Because they never got that kind of support. And I know it might be different for you, but and my submarine is all men.

Moussa Mikhail 21:05
All men that feel it’s weak, to be vulnerable. That is not tough. To complain or not, it won’t say complain, because complaining is, is a lot of victimization to self too. But just to talk about what’s really bothering you, as a man, it’s weak to talk about your feelings. A lot of times, society says movies, Hollywood says. So when you have a group full of men, and none of them share, none of them open up, none of them talk about how they feel, none of them feel like they can go talk to a mental health professional without getting some type of criticism from their crew, or whatever the case is, you have a group of dysfunctional men trying to function and learning to function within their dysfunction, which is not the most productive, it’s not the most effective, it’s not the most healthy. And then we start getting signs in our body, we start getting diseases and my theory on this, the diseases that we feel around our body, even though it might not sound like it had anything to do I have a thyroid issue when I was in the Navy. Some people might just say, oh, that’s just a thyroid disease that has something to do mental health. My inability to keep my myself stress, free or manage my stress, created disease manifests these disease, because the immune system doesn’t work under stress very well. So these are the type of conversations that I feel is necessary. And part of it is now how can I get these conversations, these type of podcasts and more military people. Because even on my podcast, I’m not saying this is for broken people who have mental health issues, because anyone can anyone can take their journey on. But it can only it could take just a simple person, or just one person to say, Hey, man, it’s okay. Like, let’s let’s do this, let’s talk about this, like what’s going on here? Like, these criticisms are not as important as your well being your wellness. So I get very passionate about this stuff. And it’s really what I’m dedicating everything to now is, how can I support people who really don’t know how to support yourself, because at a certain point, a lot of these traumas become subconscious. And then the behaviors are subconscious. So people don’t know why they do things they do. And that’s what it why we need feedback. We need support, we need more, help more eyes around us to see why we do the things we do. Because a lot of is we just don’t know, we don’t know, we don’t know how those traumas bleed in to our behavior, our learning, health, our performance, and that’s usually what it is someone who doesn’t perform in any business, any career field, if they’re not performing. Well, there’s an issue there with mentality, mental health, there’s something that is occupying most of their mind. So they cannot perform the way they can or are capable of. So I know I got on tangent. I know if I answered your question.

Victoria Volk 24:28
No, it’s I mean, you speak my language because as a Reiki Master, I’m all about the energy and how energy gets stuck in our bodies. And speaking about the thyroid, that’s the throat chakra is unable to speak your truth. It’s unable to communicate, how you feel and communicate, just communicate.

Moussa Mikhail 24:48
Are there because of that?

Victoria Volk 24:51
Wow. I mean, yes.

Moussa Mikhail 24:53
So I understand. I didn’t know at the time, and I refuse to say Oh, I got that. Oh, it’s just like, it just happened. Like it happens. It’s a common thing, right? Nowadays, it’s a lot of people have it. Let me just cut it out and deal with like, no, problem solved. No, I took it up. So I was like, I’m not cutting it out. This is a sign that I need to learn how to processes are I was I could cut it out, but it’s gonna show up somewhere else. Right disease shows up. If the trauma and the pain and the suffering and distress are still there and your your body, it will come out different ways. I have a good I have a good chiropractor. And we talk about like my neck pain. He never talks about like, Oh, it’s a spine or it’s a muscle or like, no, he’s like this is holding on anger. This is why your neck hurts. I was like, Oh, well, this is this is helpful, because this is a way to approach it. Instead of oh, let me go crack your neck real quick. And I see you next week. It’s like, No, we got to get the energy processed. So it can actually relieve the tension there. Long term. Right. So chiropractors, some of them know a lot of this the energy because the spinal cord, the nervous system, when it’s under stress, and under tension, you start getting posture issues, back pain, neck pain. And that was me too. I’m still working on that. I see my chiropractor in two days.

Victoria Volk 26:27
Well, that acupuncture is a lot like Reiki and that it helps to open flow of the energy. Right? You might want to look into Reiki.

Moussa Mikhail 26:37
Yeah, I did one Reiki class before. I haven’t done acupuncture. But I’m definitely was actually really interested in I was asking people about it out here in Vegas, because I definitely want to check it out. And it’s just like that it’s a process. It’s not something you do once. Right? And that’s why it’s all about the journey, and and mental health issues, not like oh, let me go talk to some person one time. No, it’s a practice. How can I practice moving this energy? Because if it gets stored up as anger, like it was for me, it’s going to come out somewhere else. It might blow the lid off when I’m when I don’t want it to write, it’s gonna come out uncontrollably at some point. So how do I process that in a healthy way, so no one gets hurt. And I don’t get hurt physically, when my body. I don’t suffer from disease, because I’m holding on to everything. So this is this is the conversation, I have myself a lot, and that I share with other people because it is a huge, huge part of just being happy and living a fulfilled life. And just performing and creating our maximized life that we can create is dealing with ourselves first.

Victoria Volk 27:57
So let’s circle back because I don’t want to gloss over the cancer diagnosis. But when you first heard those words, what went through your mind?

Moussa Mikhail 28:07
Yeah, I was actually fit, I was still in the Navy. So I was I was concerned. However I knew. It wasn’t. I wasn’t afraid. I was I understood that this type was, it’s one that doesn’t really spread very fast. And it didn’t really spread. Since I’ve had it. It’s very slow growing. And I looked at it. I knew, since I’ve heard it that I wasn’t going to just do the modern approach to removing parts and whatever the only option I had was surgery. And it was at a size that’s a little too small. For most most of them to have surgery, if it’s less than a centimeter, they usually don’t want to remove anything. And mines was less than a centimeter. And it still is. And I was like okay, so I’ll monitor it. Everyone looked at me like I was stupid for not wanting to have surgery. All the doctors, I was talking to any military because they just that’s the language you speak, right? But your cuts, surgeon removes things. So they’re just like, Let’s just remove and it’s gone. I looked at it from a more spiritual lens, right? Like if I’m, I knew I wanted to do this work when I got out the military. This is really right before like a couple months before I got that I found out and then it was like, I want to do this work. So me being spiritual, looked at it as well. This might be necessary for me to overcome and live through so I can live Self Mastery can I get I can live what really mastering the mind, body and spirit is and heal. And when I do that, I’ll be able to speak to everyone who has disease in a different way, and have them listen, that we have a lot of control over these things. I’ve known people who’ve healed from a lot of diseases we we see diabetes, heart disease, a lot, those things get reversed. Right? If you see work by Joe Dispenza, this man got hit by a truck and healed himself with only surgery may get its we say as miracle. However, our body, every single cell in our body is a miracle.

Victoria Volk 30:28
Yeah, he was told you never walk again.

Moussa Mikhail 30:30
Yeah and I study I’m learning, I’m in school for nutrition science, I’m studying a lot of biology. How are our body does the things it does is it’s a miracle. And that’s all I could say about that. So healing is part of our body, our body does that you get a cut on your finger, you don’t have to think about it, it’s going to heal, the body knows it will respond clot caught up that cut, and you get a scattered in a little while be gone. And you know, even though you had, right? Same thing with internal damage and cuts. For me, that was just a lesion on my thyroid, I looked at it as okay, I talked to a nutritionist, she told me the same thing about expressing myself. Right. And I was like, very true. I’ve held in stress for the last three years, I was in constant stress every day. It was not I was succeeding through it, I was functioning. However, it didn’t mean I wasn’t dealing with a lot of stress. I was just holding it in though, they want to talk to oh, he says the story told myself, I could have found an opportunity. But I didn’t. Because I didn’t want to seem weak. I was a leader of a division navigation, I had to be the strong leader. Right. And it you know, it is that’s the type of thinking that keeps people from talking about it. And then now now it’s like, I’m going to heal this, by if I keep my mind in the right way. If I’m moving the energy, from my bodies on that holding on to it from processing my emotions, whether it’s anger, sadness, frustration, now holding on to it. So my body can start healing. Because I believe you have to be in a peaceful state, for your body to maximize healing. And that’s why meditation is such a big thing for me now. And then dealing with these things. So now, it’s like a holistic approach. It’s not just cut it out. Because then if I cut it out, am I show up in a different form? If I’m still doing the same thing that the cause the the causal action of holding everything, and not communicating, not expressing that talking about it, right, so I figured the best way to talk about is make a podcast. And I honestly, I still haven’t really talked about it that much. You know, because I don’t like to identify myself as like I am dealing with that. Right? It’s just, it’s, it’s a small thing for me. And it was enough of a sign to say I need to take care of my body. Because I was very healthy. And I still got it right. I need to take care of my mindset, my mental health, my physical body’s great. You know, I’m active, I’m healthy, mostly plant based. At the time I was fully plant based, I was taking care of myself. It didn’t even it doesn’t even affect my thyroid hormone or anything. So it’s just there’s it was a flag, a red flag for me a sign that I need to take this serious. And this is part of my journey now. And when I overcome this, I’ll help other people overcome their issue. So that’s my view on it now.

Victoria Volk 33:48
I love that. Thank you for sharing all of that. But I do have a deeper question. What was your? What has been your grief experience growing up?

Moussa Mikhail 33:59
Yeah, my grief experience growing up was my parents moved to America from Egypt. I was born here. I grew up seeing a lot of verbal abuse between them. They didn’t I never really saw love in my household. Like that wasn’t really a thing. When I was about 1213, my parents separated. They got a divorce. And that was tough to see too. So a lot of there was there was always anger. There’s always these emotions. There was never really love growing up. You know, I received a lot of love from them individually, but seeing parents that hate each other pretty much and made it imprint on my mind at a very young age. They got divorced, I was still pretty young. And then my father passed away when I was in high school. So that was another thing. Right he passed away from lung cancer. And I had an uncle who was very close to pass alone as about 10 are 11, who had a heart attack at 55. So we both died at 55. And that’s what got me really interested in health. And then as I’m growing in health, I’m understanding why the mindset plays a role in a lot of these things. Where it’s heart is heart disease, lung cancer, right? Smoking cigarettes, it’s an addiction. So now I’m studying addiction in a very different way. And people have that addiction, because of what because it may calm them down from dealing with their trauma, their issues, their problems, their grief, right. So that is their mechanism to feel better in the moment. Right, so what are healthy ways to feel better in the moment? You know, and it was crazy thing is, they they did some study, I can’t remember all the details, but they they noticed that the thing that helps cigarette smokers the most when they smoke, is that they start taking deeper breaths. And they get a sense of calm. And they write maybe it is a cigarette because it has a nicotine, all those weird things? Or is it because they’re breathing bigger now? They have deeper breaths. So read breathwork is a huge thing for me. But yeah, those are the big things that, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t really grieve my father’s that that much. You know, because I wanted to be I wanted to be strong. And, you know, I don’t have any resentment for him. You know, I’ve let that go. You know, and and now it’s like, well, how can I help people here? Who are maybe stuck in addiction? Right? And are using that as a mechanism? Because I feel like most people have some sort of addiction now, too. But that’s a whole nother conversation. Right? Our cell phones are an addiction to so it’s, it’s how can I use that to help people move forward? Because I didn’t have a lot of guidance. I didn’t have a male role model, really? two older brothers, however, it wasn’t. Was it that type of relationship where I was like, inspired. Right, one of my brothers were was in a gang in high school. He’s not in and now he’s doing great. He’s like a pastor in Arizona, he’s like, overcame that he had his own addictions or his own journey. However, I didn’t really talk to him when I was younger. My other brother was also very reserved, very quiet. So I didn’t have a male role model. And my dad gone. And now I’m figuring it out, piecing it together and decided to finish high school, very quiet, reserved, I got along with people, I was friendly, or I was very reserved in high school. High school was just for me, it was just go do what I got to do and leave. You know, I didn’t really have that experience of enjoying it. Right. I was in my head most of the time. And I even even when my father passed away in high school, I didn’t tell anybody. Right. So that’s another issue to the thyroid, right? Yeah, I didn’t tell a single person. Like not a single person knew. Because it was over the summer before my senior year, I came back and it was like, I was quiet. Most of the time. I did my I did all my schoolwork. I was a good student and never got in trouble. But I didn’t communicate these things. Maybe a couple people knew. But yeah, that’s another thing. Where Why did I feel the need to not tell anyone? Not sure. Exactly. However, now I know. That’s not how you grieve. As long as you process pain,

Victoria Volk 38:53
It wasn’t it wasn’t demonstrated for you. And that’s where the generational learning impacts everybody, because we are taught what our children are what our parents teach us, right? And they’re taught what they know. You know. So that’s how that cycle continues. And it is up to me now to break that cycle because I wasn’t taught how to grieve appropriately, not even appropriately healthy, in a healthy way. You weren’t either, right. So break the cycle before my kids before I pass that onto my kids. That’s how this that’s how that cycle continues the grave alone and be strong and Time heals all wounds and all these things that were taught replaced the loss. This is are all myths of grief that we teach in Grief Recovery. And in Grief Recovery, like you said with addictions, we call them serves short term energy relieving behaviors. And we all have a vise of some sort that we resort to to feel Better for a short period of time. But it’s not long lasting, right? So we have to keep that pattern of behavior continues until we can become aware that our patterns of behavior are related to our emotion.

Moussa Mikhail 40:18
Exactly. And one thing I’ve learned, and I share is an emotion, not fully felt, not fully expressed, continues to perpetuate until it’s fully felt, it will linger in the background too, oftentimes, might not be thinking about it. You might have that resentment toward someone from like, 10 years ago, like I forgot about that. Like, I don’t care about that. Screw that person. There’s still some energy there.

Victoria Volk 40:50
I’m fine. Yeah, that’s always angry. feelings inside not expressed. That’s fine as

Moussa Mikhail 40:56
Exactly how many times I’ve I said that, right was saying, it was that every single day I’d show up, like, I’m good, I’m fine, whatever. I just do this, I’m going. Right does even that. Right. And that’s even for something someone to notice when their energy is low. And they’re they feel tired, they feel drained. There’s something there. Right, the brain is suppressing something, and it’s taking up energy. Right, and I ask people, this one, this is a great question to ponder, like, what are you trying to forget?

Victoria Volk 41:34
Hmm, that’s a good one.

Moussa Mikhail 41:37
That is a question that will ask, ask yourself that, reflect on that, because I asked myself, and now now it starts bringing up things because you, when you fully expressed something, when you fully grieve, you’re not trying to forget anything. You’re not trying to pretend it wasn’t there, whether that happened, you, you fully acknowledge it, you’ve came to acceptance and capacity, acceptance and surrendering it. Right. And that is that’s where it begins. But it begins with that conscious, intentional question or questions of some type of work to get you thinking about it? Why am I holding on to this? Like, why do we do we want to be right? Or do you want to be happy and healthy, because forgiveness, surrendering to something that at this point, I have no control over. That’s going to liberate me to be happy, and healthy, and create the greatness that I have within me and share that with the world. But until I face it head on, it’s going to operate in the background, I’m going to be tired, I’m gonna be down, everything’s gonna be fine. I’m going to have pains in my body, I’m going to have disease I have to go to doctor get drugs for I’m going to be just surviving. So thriving, and being happy, fulfilled. All of that begins with acknowledgement, acceptance and surrendering to the pain, the trauma, because honestly, from my experience in this work, I’ve been talking to a lot of people about it. Everybody has something or multiple something’s right. So it’s, it’s when you when I started talking about some of the addictions and some of the issues I’ve had, I started seeing that like everyone has some issue, even if it’s not the same exact one. There’s a lot of people that do deal with the same issues I’ve been dealing with. And that’s another concept for people to grasp. If you have an issue, and you’re not fine, and you have an issue in a relationship or work or whatever the cases, there are, pretty much everyone around you has some sort of issue too. You’re not the only one. And that’s the type of thing that made me isolate myself. I felt like I was the only one dealing with this. Right? And then if I actually think about it, a lot of people lose loved ones. A lot of people seeing family, hate and pain and never seen love in their life and some people seen worse. Right? And it’s it’s all relative, however, it is still stopping us from living fully. And just in the having that, that life of that we think is impossible sometimes. That’s it. That’s the thing right there that limiting belief and starting starting to understand that it is possible to not live in suffering and pain, to be depressed, to have these mental health issues. It is possible to be happy. That’s That’s it. Critical belief, I believe.

Victoria Volk 45:03
So what? What were you searching for when you decided to join the military,

Moussa Mikhail 45:09
I was searching, I was very, in my head logically about it. At the time, I wanted to join the FBI. I figured this is a good way to get out of the small town I was in. Because I was in Vegas, I was born in Vegas, I was living in New Jersey, which I didn’t, wasn’t really fond of, I wanted to get away. So there’s more of that too. Like I wanted to just run away, run away, right, run away from my life and start No, start a new one I wanted to get as clearance. So I can go in the FBI, and give military experience and just get out, right. And searching for a path that I know I can succeed in. Right, because I didn’t really have that many friends throughout high school, and those things. So it’s this, it just felt right, I can go build relationships of military leaders will help me guide me maybe I’ll travel, get out of my comfort zone or challenge myself or get military experience potentially be high quality candidate for the FBI. That changed. I didn’t want to work for the government ever after my second deployment. However, I’ve learned so much in that time, and I probably the best decision I made even though it was a lot of pain and suffering that I created for myself, by not dealing with things held in a healthy way. Right. And that’s another thing I tell people is suffering is optional. Suffering is optional. And we get to choose as hard as it is, it’s still a choice. And that’s that’s what I was running away from my life. Starting over my fat my father passed away. I didn’t like where I was at, I didn’t want to just do what everyone else is doing was going to like Community College. In New Jersey, I just I saw myself doing different. And that’s what made me join.

Victoria Volk 47:11
Well, and I asked that too, because I think your story is is different, but it’s very similar to a lot of people that joined the military. It’s because and it is a lot of people that come from dysfunctional homes that didn’t have that discipline, or they didn’t have that stability, or they didn’t have structure in their lives. And so their look, or they like you, you know, you didn’t have maybe the commodity friendships and solid support in that way. So you’re looking for that in the military, which every branch you’ll find that for sure. But again, like you said, you’re a submarine of dysfunctional men, you know, from dysfunctional backgrounds. And it’s not to say it’s, no one asks for that. Right? Like, you don’t ask for that. But you don’t know how to handle the cards you’re dealt with. If you’ve never been guided or, you know, received that demonstration of how to do that. And, again, I think to like you kind of to your point it I think it’s a waste of our lives, to not ask ourselves the deeper questions that lead to us fulfilling what it is the maximum of our potential. Right?

Moussa Mikhail 48:34
Absolutely yeah.

Victoria Volk 48:36
What is one? Oh, go ahead.

Moussa Mikhail 48:37
No, sorry. I was just gonna say when we when we do start reflecting deeply and asking those questions. We have the answers. And it just takes a little bit of reflection. I did a lot of that. When I was trapped into to most of the time,

Victoria Volk 48:54
but you don’t need to be trapped into tube to do that. Right?

Moussa Mikhail 48:57
You don’t Right. What’s the worst trap is the one we just keep here? Yeah, exactly. Without realizing our minds. Yeah, that’s the worst one. Yeah.

Victoria Volk 49:05
How many of us were in prison or are in prison or feel like we’re in prison to our circumstances?

Moussa Mikhail 49:13
Is optional.

Victoria Volk 49:14
Yeah. But action is the anecdote, right? Doing something about it. And so I guess my question is then to you. What would you say to someone, you know, yeah, it’s easier said than done. What would you say to someone? Where do you start?

Moussa Mikhail 49:33
Yeah. So

Victoria Volk 49:35
Okay I ask myself the question. I asked myself, What are you trying to forget? I’ve asked myself that question. Well, I know what I’m trying to forget. Now what

Moussa Mikhail 49:44
A lot of it is just we think it’s gonna happen overnight or over in a week in a month. And it’s not so first understanding that it is now that you have the awareness and the the idea that it’s possible To get over this, looking at is a lifetime journey, a lifelong process of learning and bettering. Because that’s that’s one of the things I saw that why sometimes people might not succeed and the counseling with a psychologist there like one hour sessions every week or month, sometimes that’s too much at a time. And it’s about just getting a little bit better. So instead of thinking of like, oh, I need to overcome all these issues, right now that’s going to overwhelm. So it’s, how can I do one thing today to get me to make progress? Or if it’s breaking a habit? How can I do one less of that one thing? Right, and it’s breaking it down? Because sometimes it’s many things. Sometimes you might have many different issues, many addictions, and you want to take them on at once. And then you won’t, because it’s too much. It’s overwhelming. And you haven’t grown to the person necessary to overcome all those things at that time, because it’s a growing process. It’s a practice. So was one thing I can do today to help me maybe release some of the tension? What’s one practice I can start right now one habit I can develop, whether it’s talking to a Reiki Master, whether that’s do five minutes of breathing, or whether that’s write something out, whether that’s exercise, or that’s take, you know, take your energy, move your energy somewhere else, right, it’s it’s the little things that really make the big changes. And it’s developing habits. So starting small to just get better, what can I do today? To get better, and then tomorrow, not beat myself up? Because I haven’t overcame everything yet. Know that I just got a little bit better. I did. I did 10 minutes of meditation today. Wow. Like, tomorrow, let me do that, again. Whether even if five minutes, whatever few breaths, like getting started becoming aware, and taking small steps consistently over time, that’s what makes great change. It’s not like, Okay, I gotta stop. Let me talk about my trauma in a one hour session, and it’s all gone. Like, no, sometimes it’s has to be more controlled, shorter increments over time, and you start releasing some of that energy over time. And it’s a process. So don’t set expectations for yourself to have it all done right now. Because it’s a process. And it’s a never ending learning journey. I’m constantly learning ways to overcome the issues that arise for me. However, it’s small steps, small steps, what’s the one thing I can do right now, that can help me just be better, and then start isolating those things, once you break down the most destructive habit, that that’d be the sole focus, right? And then break that down until it’s gone. And when that’s done, you can move on to the next one. But it’s like you want to fix everything all at once. You’re not going to know how. So let’s break it down small and then move forward from there.

Victoria Volk 53:42
And that’s pretty much how it started. For me. My my growth, post traumatic growth. I think it was a midlife crisis, which I think is very common for people end up in midlife asking yourself bigger questions and things like that. And so that’s how it kind of started for me again, a life coach was doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that started writing. But it wasn’t enough for me, like I realized grief is my issue. I had another loss that kind of opened up a can of worms, which often is what happens to when people realize, like you have one loss, like you have one loss that just like okay, I’m done, I can’t take this anymore. I just want to feel better. And so that’s what led me to Grief Recovery, which changed my life opened me up to Reiki and all these other opportunities and things this podcast like it’s been do like a growth just in the last two years after I dealt with my grief, and like to speak to what you said earlier with trauma and stuff traumas what happens in grief is what’s left. And so what has your grief taught you?

Moussa Mikhail 54:50
My grief taught me that it is necessary to have support in my life. You know, it’s necessary for me Have people around me, and to not do it myself, which was, I had backwards before. I thought I had to deal with it myself. So I can, you know, show up the best version, right? But you won’t be able to show up the best version. If you’re holding on to a lot of pain and suffering and grief, and trauma, right, those things are consuming a lot of your energy in a subconscious way. So that that was the biggest thing. And that’s something I’m, I still work on having people around me who can see this, there, my mirrors, my mirrors, if I’m, if I’m not showing up my normal self, or happy or whatever I see around me now, because I surrounded myself with people, right? And everyone’s just a mirror. So having the support, and knowing that it’s okay to feel crappy. It’s okay to feel that because that’s part of dealing with emotions.

Victoria Volk 56:04
And contrast. Yeah. And the contrast, yeah,

Moussa Mikhail 56:07
A lot of times emotion is just data, it’s information to me, if I’m, if I’m angry, angry is not bad or good. It’s what I do with that, that becomes bad or good. Because if I’m angry, and I go take it out, go yell in a pillow, or go run or whatever. And now I’ve expressed that energy, and I’m no longer feeling that anger. Now I can learn from that emotion, like, what, what caused it? Why did it take such a strong root in me, or whatever the cause was, I can learn from that. So I’ve learned so much about how to deal with my emotions. And I actually had to put words to it. Because a lot of times before, I didn’t even know how to like put words to it. So I’ll just be silent. Because I don’t know, I’m the hall here, I don’t know, I don’t even I explain what I’m feeling and experiencing. And that is practice. That’s a huge practice. However, it’s a liberating practice. Because once you start communicating it, and if you speak it out loud to groups or people, you start letting some of that energy out. Right. And it might be a little bit by a little bit, if you do it every week, every other week, and you start doing it and releasing the energy and communicating it. Eventually, that energy would dissipate to nothing. And then becomes nothingness instead of a controlling factor of your life. So that’s something I’ve learned, and that I’m still practicing, anytime something comes up. Now it’s not let me hold on to this and we process it. Yeah, process it. And then I have to communicate it in some way, whether that’s writing it out, or communicating to another human being or group, or group fashion. So those are some of my big keys.

Victoria Volk 57:56
That’s awesome. And one thing that came to my mind, too, is is how, like, how do you know if you’re growing? Like how do you know if you are stepping into a better version of yourself? And what’s been on the top of my mind this week has been the word patience. And I think it’s how you handle the hurry up and wait. That is the military, right? But how you handle the wait, the waiting, whether you’re waiting in a grocery line, whether you’re stuck in traffic, how do you handle waiting? And I think if you can look at truly how you handle waiting, how patient you are, I think that really is a really good indicator of how much you have grown as a human being. Because I had, I had a really challenging situation yesterday, which brings to my mind about patients because I don’t think the guy expected me to be as patient as I was. But I was more than an hour and a half patient. I think it was just like, you know, he’s trying to push me to why I think you you know what, we can do this another time? No, I’m good. I’m very patient. And that was not me five years ago, not even three years ago. So patience. Yeah, that’s been a huge thing on on the forefront of my mind this week, actually going to write about it in my newsletter, because I think it is a really great indicator of how much patience we actually have with ourselves to. If we’re completely impatient with other people, how can you really be patient with yourself? And really patients for yourself as compassion for yourself too. So

Moussa Mikhail 59:43
Absolutely, which is a huge, huge part of this. It’s kind of the essence of what we’re talking about. When I’m saying take you have to it’s a process. It’s a slow process, daily practice. That requires patience. Because when you when you feel like you When you want to get over something in like a day, however, it might take longer than that. What if it takes a month to get process something fully? That’s okay. Like whatever it is, whatever it is, it is what it is. But it requires patience. And that’s a great test. If you’re in traffic, how mad do you get? And is that worth it? If you get mad at that, so although all the other little things that come about in your day to day triggers you, you start noticing, oh, I’m just pissed off like most of the day until I go to sleep. Right. That’s where disease and things like that come about?

Victoria Volk 1:00:41
Yeah, I think we could have just a whole nother conversation about energy. And just the energy of growth, post traumatic growth. You know, you hear that phrase a lot. But yeah, so I just want to encourage everybody to check out your podcast, the conquer approach. And where can people? Is there anything else for someone to give you the opportunity? Is there anything else that you didn’t get to share that you would like to share?

Moussa Mikhail 1:01:10
I feel overall complete, just want to remind people, this is a journey. It doesn’t end, once you process one thing, life is just going to continue to fill those things. So it’s what we focus on. Our energy will flow there. Right. And exchange expectations for appreciation was one of the best things I’ve learned. Expectations, cause suffering,

Victoria Volk 1:01:40
Plan disappointments, expectations, or plan disappointments. Can you say that again, though? What did you say?

Moussa Mikhail 1:01:45
Exchange expectation for appreciation. That’s good. Expectation just causes suffering, a what it should be, it should look like it should feel like whatever the case is. But in the moment can shift that to whatever and change that to appreciation, you’ll find your body being in a completely different state, your mind being a different state. And that is the goal that we’re we’re achieving here is is finding peace, through grieving through communicating through understanding the body and energy. So other than that, my podcast is on every platform. I’m Musa McHale on every platform. So I’d love to connect with anyone.

Victoria Volk 1:02:29
And I’ll put the way you can connect in the show notes, all those links in the show notes. And I thank you so much for your time today for your service as well. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love from my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you’re hurting know that what you’re feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend