Cancer, Death/Dying, Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parent Loss |
Dr. Chris Kerr | Death Is But a Dream: End-of-Life Experiences
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who is facing terminal illness right now.
Whether you are a caregiver or a patient, Dr. Chris Kerr’s wisdom may help you feel empowered in how you address the end-of-life experience.
Dr. Kerr’s work has focused on affirming that end-of-life experiences are real and how the medicalization of the end-of-life process hinders one’s ability to have “a good death” and also impacts the family who will be left behind.
Dr. Kerr’s message is impactful because the extensive research he’s conducted over the past 10+ years has created a positive impact in the lives of many.
How society approaches end-of-life needs to change and, it starts with education. Please listen and share this episode. Then, watch his documentary when it releases or read his book, and consider how end-of-life can be a beautiful, integrative experience. And, in the instance of terminal illness, it’s not one that has to be feared.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT WITH DR. CHRIS KERR:
Victoria Volk 00:00
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of grieving voices. Today my special guest is very special. It’s kind of feels like a big deal to me is Christopher Kerr, Dr. Christopher Kerr. He is the chief medical officer and CEO for the center of hospice and palliative care in Buffalo, New York. To date, his him and his research team at hospice buffalo have published multiple studies on the topic of end-of-life experience, over 1500 end of life events have been documented. And so that’s what we were talking about today is end of life experience, but also his grave story as well. So, thank you so much for your time today.
Dr. Chris Kerr 00:42
Thank you for having me. Thank you for doing this, this is important.
Victoria Volk 00:47
So, can we start where your work is rooted?
Dr. Chris Kerr 00:55
Sure. Wait, how it began, in terms of medical sense, or more personally?
Victoria Volk 01:00
More personal.
Dr. Chris Kerr 01:03
Yeah, I, I lost my father, when I was 12 years old. And the last time I saw him, and actually, he was certainly in a different place. interplanar place, and he thought that he was reenacting or re-experiencing what we did every year, which was go fishing. So, he was trying to get me ready, grabbing my shirt and such, saying we had to catch a plane because we’re going north. But he was smiling. And that’s the last time I saw him. So, I actually experienced what he ended up studying as a child. But when you lose a parent of 12, it’s, you know, its obviously life changing and traumatic in ways that are hard to describe. It’s not something that I openly talked about adults with at all, actually. What happened was, I inadvertently ended up doing hospice, which was the last place I was actually here trained to be a cardiologist in Buffalo. And I needed to moonlight more. And so long story, but because I had to carry a pager from cardiology, I couldn’t work in an ER anymore. So, I was doing home visits for hospice, I saw an ad in the paper, actually, and started doing it. And it was really the thing that I, you know, there’s this intense painful memory of my life earlier. Now I’m seeing at the end of life, as I’m caring for people who are dying, because no more sterilized medical environment. You know, there’s a big barrier between you and the bedside. And you’re you’re knee deep and demonic in bureaucracy. And when there isn’t a lot of dude do to the patient, you’re less involved as a physician in today’s world, but what I actually had to attend to them and be present, I’m seeing that this whole thing again. And, and, and I really never talked about what happened to me, as a child, I, as a young boy, where I lost my father, I had a very brisk and pronounced response. I. And I didn’t mention his name alone, that experience. Now what happened was, I was given a TED talk. And by this time, I had already had all this research, and it was getting all this notice and whatever. And I was bothering me because it was just so dishonest, because I wasn’t tying my piece of the story, right. And so I took a friend of mine who I trust out for lunch, and it’s like, I got to taste them again. Here’s the real truth. You know, I, this is how I came into it. Because these things kind of aren’t random. And so then I just want I want to give a TED talk. I just told my piece of the story. So that was actually the first time I went out there with it but yeah.
Victoria Volk 04:07
I love the TED Talk, by the way, and I will put the link in the show notes. And so, the research that you’ve done, how many years First of all, how long did this take you?
Dr. Chris Kerr 04:20
It’s actually a funny story. I guess it’s been over a decade.
Victoria Volk 04:25
Oh, wow.
Dr. Chris Kerr 04:26
So, what was I did it because I was really pissed off. I had nothing to do with getting this kind of attention at all. I was trying to, I teach medical students and residents, and they’re required to do rotations through hospice for a few weeks. And I was challenging, you know, that, you know, there’s a sigh of die and you see this objective piece, but then there’s the experience of dying. And what’s it what actually the patient has experience. Sing and dine is unique in that it’s changing your vantage point. And it makes sense of your perspectives, and your perceptions change dramatically. And this is just universal. It’s been described throughout time that they people are having these very, very intense inner experiences. And you know, we live in this evidence-based time. And doctors are ever more discomforted by things they can’t measure see biopsy image. And so, they might, the students will always say, you know what, there’s no evidence for that. And I said, well, yeah, it’s been talked about forever, but not evidence in the way they like to see it. So, I did the studies formally, and we went through a university process and an IRB approved study, people had to consent with a witness. They were screened every day. In participations, we’d approach patients every day until death, about these experiences, we had to rule out that they weren’t confused. And that sort of thing. And we filmed actually, interestingly, only because we were trying, we knew that you had to see it to believe it. And people would make assumptions about these patients that they were feeble minded or confused. And it made them look like you and I. And in the film, ironically, it was meant for a medical audience is now part of this full-length documentary. So, it’s funny how it turns out. So anyways, so I did that for a medical community. And, you know, now we’ve published probably eight papers, and they always get published, but you don’t hear a lot of noise, but, and then what happened was really, really weird. and ended up seeping out to the nonmedical community. Starting six, seven years ago, and honestly, we have never been able to keep up with it. Ended up on the front section, the science section, The New York Times, Washington Post, the Atlantic Huffington Post, two or three times, Scientific American Psychology Today, but then ended up going around the world. It was Indian China, Germany, and it just, it never seemed to stop Korea. So, it’s, the point is, and it’s a sad point is that what didn’t resonate with the medical community, the people providing the care resonates enormously with the people receiving the care. And it’s the best part. But the TED Talk isn’t the TED Talk. It’s the comments. And because the comments, people have never had this stuff, really properly validated for them, and allows them to share their stories. And they’re really there. The I think the comments section is more interesting. But so, it’s been very interesting. There’s been a framework for this discussion. And it resonates with people, and it doesn’t seem to stop. So yeah, that’s, that’s how it all happened. Yeah, I can do one thing, and this thing just kind of went out of control.
Victoria Volk 08:08
Do you get a sense that people I mean, obviously, people are just kind of thirsty for this?
Dr. Chris Kerr 08:13
They are, they are. And what we did that was really, really different was it was very, very important. As everybody who has done this historically, has used it as a keyhole into the afterlife. And then that gets you into a camp that’s paranormal, religious afterlife, or whatever. And we didn’t do any of that. All we wanted to do was capture what the patients were telling us in the dining experiences, what they were experiencing, without extrapolating or editorializing or assuming and we just left it at what it is. And we knew that would have more appeal. Because you’re preaching to the choir in the paranormal world, right? And we just didn’t want to do that we the idea is that dying is a mystery unto itself, period, without having to go into reincarnation, or, you know, I have no idea. So, we just kept it on point.
Victoria Volk 09:06
What comes to my mind is that, and there’s a part in your book to where you say and speak. I didn’t mention the book, but you have a book, it’s called Death is about a dream, finding hope and meaning at life’s and, and you mentioned a TED talk. You mentioned the documentary, you know, the surviving death, but then this is going to be a documentary of its own.
Dr. Chris Kerr 09:30
It is a documentary. It’s been released next week.
Victoria Volk 09:34
All by itself? Yeah, the title, and it’s titled death is about a dream based on our book, correct?
Dr. Chris Kerr 09:39
Yeah. And then, and then it’s in the rest of the country in April.
Victoria Volk 09:44
Can’t wait for that. So, there is a part though, in your book where I have a note here and it’s dying from loneliness to a life affirming connection. So, It’s this dyeing process that takes you. It’s like this life affirming experience. And you say it’s for the dying as much as it is for the bereaved, can you speak to that a little bit?
Dr. Chris Kerr 10:12
So, that we see dying as a physical state and suffering lessening of the person. But what’s missing that is that there’s powerful processes going on from the patient’s perspective. And they’re remarkably comforting in a remarkably life affirming. And so, what we did in our studies was ask them what they were experiencing, we even looked at dying as post traumatic growth. And this idea that you can be within a negative experience of going to war, but there were gains. And what we found was really remarkable, right up until the last day, people who are having these experiences are gaining insight and understanding and adapting. So, there’s this paradox where you are physically declining, but spiritually, psychologically, you’re actually growing. And the direction actually affirms the life you lead, because the end-of-life experiences focus on very, very specific things, which most notably is the powerful relationship she cured and unconditionally are full of love. So that you end up feeling better and in process and kind of lessen the fear of dying. The breed pieces is interesting, we have studied, surveyed and interviewed 750 people. And it’s just this old adage, what’s good for the patient is good for the loved one. And as as, as a brief person, you can view death as decline towards nothingness, and emptiness, and, and loss. And what you find is actually, there’s, there’s lots of this connectivity between what the person’s experiencing and what how they relate to the breed. So, an example for is, you know, to parents or to to a couple who have been together for 16 years. And they lost a baby 55 years ago, by the end of their lives, you know, she’s re experiencing the child, you know, holding a child or what have you. And now the spouse is looking at his partner, and that completely inverts dying as a as something more than empty, but actually rich with love, and and how we see a person die. I mean, when you’re walking at the bed, at the bedside of someone who love your concern beyond their physical comfort is where were they and how are they? Are they Okay, when their eyes are closed? And what the data shows is they are, and they’re not alone. And we’ve actually looked at, we’ve taken grief tools and measured grief processing. And this absolutely does help them in the green in the briefing piece. You know, knowing that the person you love is reacquainted with their lost mother. It just pulls it all together in a way that that it’s provide source.
Victoria Volk 13:21
Now I can say from experience when my dad was dying of colon cancer. I was eight. Well, actually, he was sick for two years prior to that. But that experience wasn’t mine or ours, because it wasn’t something that was talked about in the late 80s. Obviously, how has this work, helped you heal from your own loss?
Dr. Chris Kerr 13:46
We were in a similar era as children losing parents, and I not so sure it was done well, we, we still do treat dying as a as a medical problem to address resolve when it’s really about a closing of a life. It’s not about a failing body part that’s over, you know, when someone is past treatment and everything like that. People don’t die in parts. They die in totality. And totality of life is defined mostly by the relationships. So, medicine takes something what is ultimately a very human experience, and they sterilize it into something that isn’t and you know, working in hospitals for 2122 years is, is interesting because families still will come in here, their loved ones weeks before died. And they’re talking about test results for imaging. And you know, it’s absurd. It’s almost a distraction to the experience of end of life, which should bring people together dying as lonely as it is when we medicalize it like this, and particularly what probably your eye experiences were not actually brought closer to the person inadvertently were brought farther. And I think that complicates bereavement terribly. Actually, no, it does.
Victoria Volk 15:12
There is a note I have here to medicalizing the process of the dying. Can you go a little bit more into depth on that?
Dr. Chris Kerr 15:20
Yeah, I mean, it’s a complicated story, but we have a healthcare system. It Well, first of all, the economy of healthcare is completely based on doing things to people. You get world class interventional care, as long as you’re considered treatable, and then you fall off a cliff literally, when you There’s nothing more due to you, we have actually over medicalized that, and deprived it of its humaneness. And we’ve inadvertently made it more lonely. And then we’re shocked we we did we I think we we do we complicate bereavement terribly, because we talk about somebody who’s on an obvious dying trajectory. So there’s always something you can do to them. Just one more thing, then we’ll take another picture next week, when really, there’s a lot of data on this, particularly at tertiary so high end, medical centers actually have less don’t add to mortality they, they take from it because this idea of medical futility doesn’t seem to matter. So, they take people who have clear terminal trajectories, but they keep it going. It’s hard to put into words, but basically, I’ve been doing this work for a long time, third of our patients are in hospice for seven days. And that’s a national number. And the hospice benefits for six months. The reason why most of those patients are in for seven days, is because the doctor talking to them hasn’t had an honest conversation. And there’s this enormous discrepancy between what the physician knows and what they actually share. And the more doctors that are involved in the case, the less they actually know. So nobody’s surprised. Like if you’re a physician, you find out your patient with advanced cancers died, you’re you hear about it, you’re not surprised, you probably didn’t tell the patient family when so there’s not a lot of information shared, I always tell tell the story, we live in a by a major Cancer Center. And I can tell you, the people who come into our hospice facility here know where to park their how much it costs to get a coffee there, but they don’t know when or how they’re going to die. And it’s actually not that difficult to prognosticate. But people just don’t have the discussion. So we’re left traumatized because it’s treated dying in a medical environment is treated like an acute. of that. The only thing that’s acute is the sudden awareness, and ability to finally tell somebody, a lot of our patients, this is sad, end up making their own call to come out into hospice out of desperation. And imagine the courage that takes when the doctor could have helped them in the transition. So nearly, you know, almost a half dying people visit an ER and in the last one to three months of life, because that’s the only place they’re recognized. But it’s um, yeah, it’s an absurd, absurd, we’d become evermore death denied.
Victoria Volk 18:33
I would agree with that in the work that I do with grief recovery.
Dr. Chris Kerr 18:37
Well, what you what you see on the bereavement side, which is a whole other topic, which I we’re doing some work on here, you’d be very interested in is this notion of medical harm. I have a theory that we complicate bereavement, because we we we don’t help well enough loved ones come to the understanding that this is where their loved one is at. And we don’t have honest conversations about what the dying process is going to look like, what their loved one is going to need in their care. And so what we do is, there’s a void filled by Nolan’s and the family tends to assume the worst. They’re just crippled with fear, for pain and all these symptoms that are really 99% of time easy to manage. But we don’t have those discussions. So, there’s a lot of data on prognostication, but in general, doctors get it wrong, and they over prognosticate by a factor of two to three. And what that does, is yes, interesting. You should look it up. How accurate are doctors’ prognostic? And because there’s huge implications for braven because it, losses enormously. It’s one of the biggest challenges you’ll face in your life is the loss of somebody you love. So, So you can either be brought into that openly and honestly, and process and adapt, and address and all those things. Or you can be all the sudden faced with this brutal reality and an injured, and it complicates how you recover. So, doctors inadvertently do a lot of harm by not being honest. And we’re constantly pulling out people from the hospital who are, you know, there’s no chance in hell they’re living, but they’re still in this process of acute medicine under the illusion that they’re going to do well. And as I said, the iria, as you go to the highest medical centers of the world, they actually live less law for all the processes. So, it’s actually the inversion.
Victoria Volk 20:51
And what’s the quality of that life that’s left. And that’s the thing.
Dr. Chris Kerr 20:57
The data until recently is very interesting, which is the vast majority, 70% of Americans want to die at home. 70% of Americans don’t. And that’s really interesting. The, that’s changed, particularly with COVID. Because people are fearful of going into hospitals and facilities.
Victoria Volk 21:16
And my dad passed away in the nursing home, living in a rural area where we do, there isn’t actually access to hospice. My mom cared for him as long as she could. She just felt like he needed more than what she could give him medically, right? Because there was always this hope, of something working or something helping or, you know, take his pain away, or anything like that. And I haven’t thought I thought of a question. It might be really deep. I don’t know. But do you think that there is like when I think about your work and the work that you’ve done, and I think about how, you know, some people want to just die suddenly, like, they don’t want to know what hit them. I think there’s a beautiful gift in having the gift of time, that knowing that you have this diagnosis, you know that there’s a book and you don’t know when, but that you have some control over how you live the rest of your days. I think there’s a gift in that. I’m curious what your thoughts are on how people have, like people that have been in your care? Do they regret the suffering that they’ve had to go through to have these experiences? Or? And I don’t imagine they do, but I don’t know, maybe I don’t even know how I’m asking this but.
Dr. Chris Kerr 22:49No, I haven’t met the person. I haven’t met the person that didn’t want control of their own life, even in the face of death, that didn’t want to be informed. They didn’t want to be protected or denied in their own realities by somebody. I’ve never met the person. You know, it’s funny, because people think, oh, you know, they don’t want to know, they actually all want to know, it’s their bodies, their life, it’s not working the same, they can stand up anymore, you know, there’s an inch, there’s intuition, just, they’re, they’re in that body. So, the denial actually is harmful. So yeah, they want to know, and they need, they need to close their life, there’s things they want to say this people they want to connect to. And there’s beauty in a lot of it, because it reduces our relationships to what matters. So, you’re stopped worrying about your tax bill, but boy, you want to hold that grandchild, like there’s richness in it. It’s part of an understandable process is less about, again, the organs not working here and there, it’s really about, you know, dimming the light on your life and reflecting and validating who you are, knowing what you’ve lived for. And generally, what happens is fascinating. So, when when we don’t have a perspective on this, because trying to understand the dying person’s perspective is too big of a reach. But I can tell you a few things happen is that at the time of diagnosis, there’s obviously all that trauma. And it’s very self focused, you know, as it should be. What happens when people realize they’re dying, their concerns, go to others. And that’s a very, very important part of dying. It’s all these gestures and love given and things that the people they care about, and they should never be denied that opportunity. It’s really, really important part of this kind of letting go idea. Is that they can reconnect with people they love. It’s, again, it’s this idea of almost being put back together before the end. And it really matters. And sometimes it’s just to be forgiven or to forgive. Sometimes it’s just express love or to remember. But it’s reconnecting and reuniting. It’s less of a dismantling process dying than it is putting back together process. And it’s it’s all of that is good stuff that affirms life, and it doesn’t deny life. So dying is interesting, because, you know, we try to protect the dine from their own experience in a way, when really, we should be engaging with them in it. You know, I, we used to do this more naturally. But we’ve again, we’ve taken the medicalization of it, to the point that we focus on a medical paradigm of medical paradigm, rather than a human one and they’re very different.
Victoria Volk 26:06
I interviewed a woman who has had metastatic breast cancer for 17 years. And, you know, she said, well, I’m considered an outlier. And there’s another woman in her group that she’s a part of who’s lived with metastatic breast cancer for 25 years. And, of course, it wouldn’t be from, you know, it’s Western medicine is obviously a huge contribution to their extended time. There’s also hope. And so, do you feel like in the work that you’ve been doing is it because they come to you, it’s usually closer to the end, like they’ve not given up hope that they, maybe it’s been transformed for them, like, you see, in the work that you do?
Dr. Chris Kerr 26:54
Yeah, I don’t see people. Hope doesn’t ever go away. And what you hope for changes. And so, when you’re in the struggle with your disease, the attitude should be always hoped for the very best, like, you know, an unusual recovery or protracted life, but also prepare for the worst. That that duality of approach is really the most graceful way through these kinds of illnesses, is you don’t deny the fact that, you know, this could go the other direction, but boy, I hope and fight like hell, that you know, you’re going to live and live well. The people that I take care of their hope, actually, I think in some ways is stronger. But they’re hoping for something else, they’re hoping for a peaceful end, they’re hoping for dignity. They’re hoping for autonomy, they’re hoping to reconnect with people they love, they hope to have the opportunities to say what they want to say to who they need to say it to, it becomes much more of a giving gesture than it is worried about, you know, if you’re unloaded, if you’re unloaded, have that whole stress and weight of survival or not. And you’ve already kind of crossed over how it changes people’s paradigms thought is really fascinating. But hope is still there. It’s just hoping for something else. I love that. That’s why people you know, I’ll tell you, it’s interesting. He was I talked about this in the end of the book, but one of the more interesting things, when we first started writing the university or pill university to the states were denied. Because, you know, we want to sterilize the dying and put them on a shelf and don’t interfere with them kind of thing. You know, which is actually the worst thing because they’re dying is lonely, and they were locked into a white ceiling. And so what’s fascinating is that everybody in that book is who they are. And in the film, and not one person who was approached and denied to participate. That’s a hell of a lot of people between the film and the book. And, and they’re telling the real stories of their lives, like the hard stuff. And you’ve got to ask yourself, okay, well, there’s no secondary gain. Some of the people who are participate are literally days or a week from dying. And so why are they doing this? Why is spending their precious time and energy and, and it’s because they’re still human. And that means they still want to have meaning they still want to be heard. Still on have relevancy, they still want to connect. And that never goes, even though they’re going to be dead. Like they know there’s banality, but it’s, it’s part of our human condition that we it’s defined by our ability to, to relate to others to discuss and to talk and to be heard and to hear back and that never goes away. So that there’s hope in that as well. Hope that you matter and it’s up It’s really a subplot within that book.
Victoria Volk 30:02
Do you find or have you been contacted about from different places around the country? Because like I said, you know, hospice care is very difficult to come by, in a lot of places. Do you see that starting to change? auspices? Just the access to hospice care?
Dr. Chris Kerr 30:22
It’s unfortunately, since I started, there were very few for profits. And like in New York, it’s a it’s, it’s, it’s licensed by the state, and there’s only one in every county, there’s 5500, or something hospices in the United States. Yeah, and one of the pros, one of the initiatives is to improve the access to rural areas. And I actually think it’s going to happen more, we’re seeing more of it because of telehealth, ability to meet people remotely, because there’s just the practicality of having on call systems and access to people who are distant, but we’re getting better. And there’s a lot of incentivize, you know, grants and dollars on the table to do that, you know, the Paris systems now ask him, you know, how you’re going to get to our members over here. And that’s exactly what they should be saying.
Victoria Volk 31:19
Well, that gives me hope. Um, so the patients that have come to you for end-of-life care, the significance, I imagine you kind of spoke to this for the bereaved. And that’s kind of where I’d like to take this conversation. Next is those who are left behind? Has it really shifted? Or have you seen shifts in people’s perspectives about what they then want for themselves?
Dr. Chris Kerr 31:49
It’s a great question. Yeah, not measurably, but certainly, anecdotally. Yeah, it’s interesting, this is in the film, there’s a number of people who speak very clearly about us. And more, what it does is it informs them of what, from the experience, they learn that their fear of death is last definitely. And I think that matters a lot, because of all the symptoms of dying, fears actually probably come close to the top of the list. And they they end up more with a faith that the story is not as bad as feared, you know. And that, that, that again, that really comes out in in the in the film really, really well. I actually think the family members are as movie as the patient’s, not more so in some ways. It there’s a lady in a film, for example, who, whose mother has very advanced dementia, and she’s in a, Michelle Sony. And the weeks prior to her death, she’s trying to escape all the time. But she’s happy as can be. And what was happening was, the daughter would go and see her every day. And she was having these rich, meaningful dreams about her deceased husband. And they had this kind of fairy tale, marriage of love. And so what’s happening, the dreams are so real during vivid that she’s acting on. And she’s trying to leave the building, because she’s always think she’s going to go past to get to the church, whether she’s to meet her husband to get married. And this happened right up until like, the last days of life. So here she is. And this is the paradox, if at all, is that she’s losing her life, but she’s actually reliving the best day of her life. And it was in that mindset that she she died, that she was getting, she was euphoric. This notion of living again, with her the one she loved. So, what that does to the daughter is completely changes her perception of loss.
Victoria Volk 34:08
It gives them an opportunity to open up that conversation I imagined because otherwise, would that have happened, you know?
Dr. Chris Kerr 34:15
Right, because people tend to need permission to have these sort of conversations. And you’re right. Yeah, it does wouldn’t happen. Yeah. You don’t know or would you just be medicated? Which actually happens a lot? Yeah. Good point.
Victoria Volk 34:33
So, what would you tell somebody who is watching their loved one suffer and they’re not sure what to do? They What do you advise people?
Dr. Chris Kerr 34:46
You don’t have to do this alone. First of all, most of America you can get help. And it’s specialized help, which is hospice help. I worried that people in the caregiving Fascinating, and that people will describe it as the best harvesting you’ve ever done. So, there’s great human value in stopping your life and becoming the character. But it shouldn’t be done as though you don’t, you’re alone with it. And so getting help, like hospice, which was designed for the home, is really, really, really advisable. And again, most people in the nation have it, you know, in terms of this kind of work, it’s really giving people permission, you’ve got to almost give them a framework, the idea that this happens, you know, the people nearing the end of life are their sleep cycle changes, the architecture of sleep changes, their level of alertness changes, dying is progressive sleep, nobody dies awake, and it you know, it’s really two things, you eat less, and you sleep more. And in that state of sleep, a lot of people have these very intense experiences, and don’t be afraid of them. That doesn’t mean it’s drugs or that their diseases God with their brain, and ask questions and allow it to occur, give it the space to occur, because it provides comfort and meaning, you know, nearly 90% of our patients, if you follow them daily report at least one event. But it’s not it’s with has value.
Victoria Volk 36:24
As a teenager, I worked in a nursing home. So obviously, a lot of people pass away and things and they never really talked about or explained or you don’t really get educated on the process of the dime, you just kind of learn on the job. And one of the things that really stuck out to me, and I still remember and I saw it too. And when I did home health, because there was a few, I had some, some clients that were on hospice at home. And they do this thing they call it picking now, I don’t know, maybe you can clarify for me, but what is actually happening when someone is, you know, reaching into the air?
Dr. Chris Kerr 37:02
So, it’s a great question. It’s a whole area of interest in my so there’s, it was actually, those actions were actually named by hip hop Hippocrates. So, it’s always been known. And basically, what happens if you take somebody who goes into delirium confusional states, it’s often because their sleep cycle is is complete disarranged. And it for example, if you went to bed tonight, and I woke you up, every two hours, with three or four days, your dreams would become very intense, and certainly become virtual. So, in a nursing home, it’s universal, you’ll see it particularly sundowning hours, because as to do with our day night cycle, you’ll see people either looking right through you, or grabbing for things, or playing with their sheets, or wind to get up. And because they’re in their dream, their participants in their dream. So they think that things in front of them. The dreams are normally you don’t normally dream, you’re just lying still, you’re doing something. So they’ll say they’ve got to get up. And that’s why a lot of elderly people fall in the night. I’ve seen people that legs not forget, they don’t have legs, because they’re dreaming of something when they were younger, then they get up. So those are the those are very, very common things that happen in delirium, or confusional states.
Victoria Volk 38:36
So, it’s not part of the dying process?
Dr. Chris Kerr 38:39
No, no, although a lot of people who are dying, become delirious, but typically towards the end. And oftentimes, because there’s unmanly symptoms, and it could be something just like constipation or nausea. When you imagine you when you have the flu, the one common denominator of all illness is this poll to go to bed and to sleep. You know, you don’t go climb a mountain, you go, I just want to crawl under the covers, and I want to sleep. And then something interferes with that sleep. Anything that sets the stage for confusional states. So let’s say you got the flu. You ever had the flu? And you want to go to bed and alarm clock goes up every hours. Have you had a child? Have you ever been postpartum and you’re gone days without sleep and you’re hearing the noises and the baby cry, whatever, and you’re pretty close. Now you imagine you’re at and you have that level of sleep disruption, then then they get confused. It’s why it’s used as a form of torture and more. Just keep waking somebody. They’ll everybody will get confused. And one of the pieces of confusion. As that dreams become your in your dream, and the themes become horrific, the worse it is, just like your mood becomes worse with one night’s missing one night’s sleep. Now you’re, you know, four and five, and then you know, you think there’s a fire somebody is robbing you, you’re paranoid of the person giving your care. So that whole dissolute dissolving of the mind is very, very tied to sleep. And they’re basically dreaming with their eyes open when they’re doing those things. It’s why very nice people can become combative in a nursing home. And tragically, they often need to be taught tied up, why you try keep elderly people out of the hospital, you keep them in their home, that they can live a lot longer. As soon as you put them in the hospital and you start waking them up in the night, then they can’t go they end up confused.
Victoria Volk 40:56
That’s fascinating. I never really thought of that. Yeah, I never really thought about that. But yeah,
Dr. Chris Kerr 41:02
yeah, you take you take an elderly person who can put themselves in context, because everything’s familiar. They know where the nightstand is. And then they go to a hospital. And then they have somebody wakes them up to give them until they wake up and they’re disoriented, and they’re not sure. Where’s my nightstand? And so that, that’s untain them. And I’m caring for my mother. No, no, they’re Ontario. And she’s 88. And you have to be very careful waking her up, because it takes a lot for her to put herself back together. And she’ll ask questions, why are these people in the room have done it? I know, 10 minutes later, she’s funny. But sleep is a is really the fifth vital sign for elderly people. And if you don’t protect it, well, you can confuse them off.
Victoria Volk 41:50
Interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Its very helpful. I think for many listeners, who are the caregivers, and their loved ones right now.
Dr. Chris Kerr 42:00
Yeah, our alarm goes off about sleep more than anything else. Because as soon as you have an elderly person who’s starting to have fragmented sleep, you’re, you’re they’re there, it’s going to be very hard to keep their mind together.
Victoria Volk 42:17
So where does this? I mean, it’s been a long time that you’ve since you’ve started this research. And is it starting to morph into another area of interest for you?
Dr. Chris Kerr 42:28
Yeah, you know, we didn’t want this to go away about five years ago, but that the momentum for it keeps going. So, we keep doing the work. You know, we and we’ve extended this right, we’ve looked at children who are having these experiences, and there’s a child, there’s a chapter in the book about that. We’ve done a lot of work, obviously, with the bereaved, and looking at how that’s changed them. The next thing we’re working on that I’m personally interested in is this caregiving idea. Because if you do what we do, you’re just It’s so inspiring to see. There’s a really great story about what people how people rise up, and the strength and the courage to care for their loved one and really focus their life back to that pivotal relationship to how that influences bereavement in a good way, if they’ve been allowed to have the time to, to reconnect with that person. So that’s the story we’re trying to uncover.
Victoria Volk 43:33
And the first thing that comes to my mind is support, like the caregivers need that support. And I think that’s lacking with a lot of corporate jobs, you know, the supporting the cattaneo person that is employed that supporting a caregiver, with time off or you know, things like that, I just think that that’s something that’s not really addressed quite yet. I don’t think we’re quite there and caregiver support yet.
Dr. Chris Kerr 44:00
And within the developed world, we offer as a country, far less than half any other nation in terms of assistance in the home. So, helping the caregiver be a caregiver. So again, world class care in a hospital, very little care at home, where you’re actually going to live with your illness.
Victoria Volk 44:22
Right, and it’s very expensive. I you know, the organization that I worked for, I’m not even sure what it costs for people for to have me come into the home, but I’ve heard things that it’s very expensive, and it’s out of pocket. And that’s why people end up in the nursing home and things like that, because you just you can’t afford home. Oh, no help. And so then either to as a caregiver as a as a child of a parent who’s ill and sick and things like that you have to choose then, between your job, your livelihood, your family, Family and things like that. And that’s why you see a lot of parents moving in, you know, a lot of these combined families now the parent moving in with the child and their family and yeah, yeah. And that dynamic too, there isn’t a lot of support there. No, I would love to see your research expand into that.
Dr. Chris Kerr 45:22
Yeah. And we’re, we’re starting to film the people, as well as we’re going along, because it just seemed to work coincide well with the first book. So, where we had the research, we had the film, and we had the book, and it all kind of came together in a big way.
Victoria Volk 45:40
And there’s a lot of grief to that. Is there with when there isn’t support, as well?
Dr. Chris Kerr 45:47
Yeah, the other thing we’re looking at, and we’re doing some studies on again, is this idea of the care before death, care of the family before death, how that affects grief. So back to our earlier conversation, if you were included in the process, if you were informed accurately, if you were given time, real time, not denied. And reassured? What does that do as opposed to being there in the hospital for a month, and then the guy says, all of a sudden, this is the end. And this idea of health versus harm, pre death, and how that affects bereavement. Because I see people who are homeless have PTSD, after these losses, after an extended stay in a hospital, they really didn’t know. And they’re still hopeful until the last 24 hours. And you know, there’s a lot there. So how well are we caring for the loved ones of the dying patient? And you know, it’s very interesting, because if you ask the patient, that’s what their concern is, their loved ones. And particularly, you know, during COVID is obviously different, but people are so disconnected. People are saying goodbye over technology.
Victoria Volk 47:06
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve heard some really tragic stories about that, or it just feels so incomplete. I just want to read a little part here that ties into what you just said, it’s in your book on page, inspiring the chapter on to those left behind, when the dying patient becomes absorbed in and then comforted by their end of life experiences, it changes the context of dying from loneliness to a life affirming connection. And this is a significant, this is as significant for the bereaved as it is for the dying. That was kind of that point that I brought up earlier. And I highlighted that because I think it is such a poignant light to make and that it is as much for the bereaved, like you said, as it is for the dying, and I’ve just reflected on my loss and my father and what he went through, and how he was denied that, you know, he was denied a good death, I would say, you know, I would call it a good death. I don’t know, it just kind of makes me feel like, you know that the trade off is the suffering and maybe the pain, but like you said, That’s manageable. And so where do you draw the line? And how do you assess that when someone to manage what they’re experiencing, but yet ensuring that they can still have a lucid experience?
Dr. Chris Kerr 48:35
Yeah. I mean, it is a fine line. And the patient should direct it. And oftentimes, what is more a is they’re tired, and no, no, I need to sleep kind of thing. But you just have to be a trade off between pain management and wakefulness. It’s almost like a Hollywood notion of pain that you’re going to need this huge dose of morphine and you’re not going to be awake more. If you’ve managed pain properly all along, you’ve gained tolerance to those side effects of the drugs, typically people who are extraordinary lucid on huge doses of medicine for pain. But but but they didn’t take it all, once one day, they took it slowly, and they got used to it like you with alcohol. So I don’t think the two things are necessarily incompatible at all. It gives me hope to the people who hold off pain medicine, for because they want to preserve their cognition, their ability to be alert and think, actually do the opposite. Because nothing takes away your ability to think clearly and have a good mood than pain and not sleeping.
Victoria Volk 49:44
That’s a good point.
Dr. Chris Kerr 49:45
So, if you were to weigh this, if you were to ask me this way, this done this for decades, the side effects of any medicine versus the consequences of unmanaged pain or nausea. There’s no question. So, the interesting thing is people who decline that sort of treatment for pain medicine, you know, I don’t want until the very end, they fulfill their own prophecy. They don’t want to be confused. They want to be in control, and they become less able to do both. Because if you have unremitting nausea, and every penny, you don’t sleep. And if you don’t sleep well in the setting of sickness, you’re miserable. And you start, stop, you start withdrawing from conversations and meaningful participation. It’s harder to smile, or laugh or enjoying by or anything.
Victoria Volk 50:37
And you get delirious.
Dr. Chris Kerr 50:38
You get delirious. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 50:41
Yeah, that’s a very good point, too. I absolutely love this paragraph. End of Life makes visible the kind of light that signifies introspection and reflection. And that goes on shining in darkness, even after grief is turned from a single event into a lifelong journey. It is a light that radiates far and wide and is felt when all language fails us. That’s beautiful. I love that. That’s beautiful. I particularly love to the story of Sierra, in your book, you just want to briefly share a little bit about that story on my audience?
Dr. Chris Kerr 51:18
Yeah, she’s actually on film. That’s all captured on film in the documentary. So very quickly, she was in her 20s and had a child. And she had undiagnosed colon cancer for too long a period of time, and was in our impatient of dying, but had was not accepting that she was dying at all. And just ask her when she’s going to get better, so she can get back to the hospital, we get more more treatment. And we were frustrated, because we’re concerned for the family who doesn’t understand a child who wasn’t getting the care he needed. And the doctor in the room is finally says, you know, see, are you having any dreams? And she scrolls grandpa. And meanwhile, she’d been dreaming of her grandfather. The Darcis was he say goes, because I’ve done a good job, you know, but but I need to stop fighting. And then I’m going to be okay. And that broke everything. And of course, there’s this link between the mother that’s her father has been referred to. And this idea that she wasn’t wasn’t alone in this process, and that she was comforting. And then, then there were more honest conversations about being actually at end of life, and all the offers, but the answers didn’t come from us. It came from within her. Yeah, and that’s on film. It’s amazing.
Victoria Volk 52:54
I just yeah, thank you for sharing that. I just thought it tied into beautifully with that paragraphs that so thank you for sharing that. Is there anything else you would like to share?
Dr. Chris Kerr 53:04
No, it’s been great. Good questions.
Victoria Volk 53:08
Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. If people would like to reach out to you, where can they find you?
Dr. Chris Kerr 53:13
Oh, it’s drchristopherkerr.com
Victoria Volk 53:20
Perfect, and I’ll put everything in the show notes as well.
Dr. Chris Kerr 53:23
And it’s good because there there’s links to videos of patients and family so it’s really good to see.
Victoria Volk 53:28
Awesome, and don’t forget the book, death is but a dream. I will also link to that.
Dr. Chris Kerr 53:34
Thank you.
Victoria Volk 53:35
Thank you again for your time today. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Grief Stories, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parent Loss |
Lizzy Flavin | Never Fatherless
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Lizzy and I share a similar loss experience. So much so, we both experienced the death of a grandmother, father, then uncle – in the same order.
We have a conversation about how those losses have shaped and shown up in her life, from her perspective of being in her early 20’s. Also, being only ten years past the death of her father, she shares what’s helped her throughout her youth.
The conversation also turns to spirituality and faith. Lizzy shares grief that she feels around the separateness that exists within faith communities. And, she shares how she’s working to study and contribute to a greater conversation around the topic.
If you’re a teen, into your 20s, or a parent of a teen/youth, I encourage you to listen to Lizzy’s perspective of the loss of her father when she was 12, as well as the other losses she experienced before that and since that loss as well.
Mentions:
Connect with Lizzy:
Need help?
Suicide Prevention Lifeline to chat or call the Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or reach out to Victoria
Victoria Volk 00:00
Welcome to another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Lizzy. And she reached out to me to be on the podcast, and we kind of have a similar story of loss. It was my grandmother, and my father and the uncle as well. And Lizzy shares that experience as well. So, she’s going to speak to it from her perspective as a 20 something, right? Correct. We’ll also dive into her faith and how that’s been shaped by those losses. Thank you for being here.
Lizzy Flavin 00:39
Yes, thank you, Victoria, for having me here. Lizzy, I’m 21 years old, and I grew up in Arizona. Yeah. And I’m really excited to be here today and get to talk with you.
Victoria Volk 00:48
When we spoke briefly, before we started to record you had mentioned that you lost your grandmother when you’re seven. Was that your first significant loss?
Lizzy Flavin 00:57
Yes, it was. I think at that point in my life, I think maybe I’d lost a pet or something. I maybe been to a funeral for someone I didn’t know. But it was the first time I really experienced someone that I knew and cared about being gone. And it was hard because I hadn’t had a very close relationship with her. She lived far away to another state, but I didn’t get to see her much while she I don’t think I ever got to visit her actually while she was sick. And so that was really hard for me not really getting to say goodbye even though I was so young and didn’t fully understand or have like the depth of relationship that I would have if she stayed alive later into my life. It was definitely hard to find out that she was gone without really having gotten to see her and say goodbye.
Victoria Volk 01:49
And then your your father was he, was, I know he passed away of cancer. Was it colon cancer?
Lizzy Flavin 01:57
Yes.
Victoria Volk 01:58
Same cancer as my dad had. I’m curious. How long had he known? Like when was he diagnosed?
Lizzy Flavin 02:05
Yeah, so my dad was diagnosed with colon cancer when I was 11. And he was sick for about 10 months. And at the beginning, at least from my perspective, it seemed like it was going to be a pretty quick surgery and then he was going to be done with it. It’s kind of how my parents had explained it to me. And I think even then, that was their understanding, but there just continued to be complications. And he continued to, you know, get better and worse over time, and then yeah, it was about 10 months later that he passed away.
Victoria Volk 02:38
First of all, my heart goes out to you I know what that loss is like I don’t know what it was like for you. So during that time, because I was a little bit younger my dad it was he was it was two years he had stage four when he was diagnosed and there was really nothing they could do but he lived for two more years and he passed away when I was eight so much of my childhood he was sick. What did you do you recall I mean and that’s still quite a little bit fresh for you because again, you’re 21 I’m much further out from my loss? What has that reef I hate to say the word journey because it’s so overused but what has that been like for you?
Lizzy Flavin 03:20
Um, It’s definitely been a long it’s just changed so much over the years I think initially when my dad passed away it was very hard and intense but I also think I been in my family talks about this a lot that we and I think it’s common with cancer that people kind of start grieving before the person’s even died and so like that process of kind of started maybe a few weeks before for me when I found out there wasn’t really anything what the doctors could do my dad was already in a pretty bad state where he couldn’t really communicate with us much and so that Yeah, there was a season where everything’s kind of blurry looking back honestly, but I do remember times even in that where I was confused about how okay I wasn’t certain moments and I didn’t know if that was right it felt like I should just always be upset but I think maybe the way we’ve been designed in some ways is to have that relief and have a little bit of being able to continue with life even when some time there’s a lot of back and forth with that of like times that I was upset that I didn’t think I should be in timezone I felt calmer than I thought I should be and especially as a child like I didn’t fully know how to process that but my family definitely helped a lot. And then like as I’ve grown past that, obviously like it gets better but it never really goes away and so there’s still times when it really hits me hard, and they don’t know necessarily how to communicate that to other people. But I do spend a lot of time in prayer in those times when it just feels like, you know, I’m not necessarily dealing with the death itself anymore in the same way that I was. But just the fact that I’ve spent my entire teenage years any part of my adult years that I’ve been without a father, and sometimes that really doesn’t feel fair. So, I think those are the moments that it hits me is when I see, oh, that’s a moment when my dad would have been there, and he’s not. And kind of, that’s something I still have to work through from time to time. And I think it gets less and less frequent as time goes on but it still happens.
Victoria Volk 05:45
Yeah, and it will continue. It’s not that I hate to say that, but it just it changes, it just changes over time. You know, you get married, you won’t be there. My family got me a beautiful little locket with my dad’s picture in it. And that’s what I wore for my jewelry. When I got married. It was incredibly special to me. So yeah, it just changes over time. You have kids, grandpa’s not there. The seats always gone at the table. Right? It sounds like to me that communication is actually a really important tool used actually used in your family to navigate that loss and share how you were feeling. What is that? Correct? mean? That’s the kind of sense I get that communication was really utilized during that?
Lizzy Flavin 06:34
Yeah, yes, I definitely agree with that. I think there were times, again, like, it’s always a mixture of like, there were times when I didn’t really feel like our family could communicate well and like be open with each other, just because of the different ways that we were all handling it. But there were also times when I was able to sit down with my mom or with my siblings, and just, yeah, share what we were feeling and know that other people were in the same boat. Even recently, like we’ve been able to have conversations, we try to celebrate or spend time together on certain anniversaries for my dad, like his birthday, the anniversary of the day he died, we’ll just get together and remember him and spend time together and sometimes talk about like where we’re at with it. And I think we probably talk less and less about I don’t know, it’s different every year. And the way it impacts all of us. It’s like continues to grow and change. But I think being able to grieve together and deal with that loss together has been really helpful and really a blessing that I know not everyone has.
Victoria Volk 07:43
Like I didn’t. So yeah, that is wonderful. Because I think when we’re able to communicate with how we’re feeling honestly and openly that brings healing, and then you’re healing as a unit as a family during that time to worry, even before your dad got sick. And even maybe when your grandmother passed, as your family always been very strong in faith.
Lizzy Flavin 08:07
Yes. So yeah, my we’ve always gone to church together as a family. I mean, we did growing up, of course now, I’m the youngest of four. So, all my siblings are adults, and they all kind of are still involved in different churches. But yeah, it’s always been an important part of our lives. It was definitely something that we talked about around like my grandmother’s death. And then something that, yeah, it’s really important to my parents, and they always taught us to like read our Bibles and brought God into important conversations. And that was really impactful to me, especially like thinking of my dad’s legacy, like continuing to walk in the faith that he helps me to establish
Victoria Volk 08:48
After he passed, how did that change? If at all?
Lizzy Flavin 08:51
It’s interesting, I guess, to me, like, trying to think through that, because I think when my dad was sick, there was a lot of conversations among my family, and especially with our friends about like, prayer for healing, which was definitely, yeah, it just brought up a lot of questions for me, when, you know, he wasn’t healed. And a lot of people we knew had, like so much confidence that he would be, but I remember, you know, my parents said, like, we trust God, or my mother actually talks about a conversation she had where someone asked her like, why don’t you or I think she was telling us about someone else actually, now that I think about it, but someone had said, like, why aren’t you trusting God to heal this person? And she’s a non trusting guide, whether he heals this person or not, and I think like that was her attitude toward my dad’s illness. And I’ve tried to take on that attitude to and it’s definitely a challenge sometimes even looking back like I said, and sometimes I just asked God like, Why Why can’t I have a dad in my life anymore? Like, this is really hard, but I do really believe Believe that he’s worked through that. And they think like, after losing my dad, that was something specifically that I had to work through. But I also, I knew that I really needed God, and that I wasn’t going to be able to deal with such a huge loss without my faith and without a relationship with God. Continuing and yeah, I really came to rely on God even more through my dad’s illness. And then after he passed away, and just looking to God, like I said, I look to him for emotional support, as I’m dealing with grief. And I look to him for, you know, with my questions and with Yeah, sometimes things that I would have looked to my dad for, because he was such an important source of like, someone I could ask questions to, and someone I could turn to you and I got anxious, and, you know, as you know, feel protected by in different situations. And so I’ve transferred A lot of it over to God. And it’s definitely different. Because God’s not like a physical person in my life. But it he’s also, yeah, I’ve just learned that, like God is ever present with me. And that’s something my dad never could have promised. And I think that’s really special. And it’s really helped grow my faith, even though it’s been difficult.
Victoria Volk 11:18
I’m interested in hearing your side or your perspective, because when I was a kid, I believe in granted, I was eight, no, even less than 12, you probably maybe know differently. But when I was eight, my dad passed away, went to the funeral is in the ground. And I thought, that’s what happens. When you die, you just go into the ground. And we did go to church, but granted those aids and big concepts, you can’t really grass, necessarily at that age. But I guess how did that when I’m thinking about my experience, and how that loss really took us out of the church, like, I blamed God, right? Like, as you’re taught, like, like you just said, and my mom had this firm belief, like, omega, he’ll be fine. They’ll do what they can. And when she realized that that’s not the case that he will die. She was devastated and crushed, and really didn’t know how to cope with that. So we fell out of the church. And that was the case for me until I was in my cell, I was probably till I was like, 23, my life was kind of a did a nosedive. Until back to, to life on faith again. So I can speak to that side of it, when you don’t have when you lose face. When you come back to it. I love that growing up that was still a part of your grieving process that that was something that was made valuable and important, and a part of healing. Because I know for a lot of people, when someone they love dies, they want someone to blame, right? You want and who is the easiest of ln is God, you know, because you’re supposed to heal people, you know. And so yeah, I struggled with a lot of those emotions, but I didn’t have the language, I didn’t have open communication like you did. And so I was a wonderful blessing that I just want to reflect back to you. Because I really think that whether you realize it now or not, that does and has an impact on the decisions that you make in your life and the choices you make. So, for anyone listening, it’s it’s there is no like linear path to losing your faith and finding your way back to it again. But often it’s, you know, it’s going to be take pen and scribble and doodle. And it’s that’s that’s what it looks like. It’s not a straight A to B point A to point B. So as you’ve been navigating this loss of your father, as it’s changed over time, and as you’ve gotten older, I know you had mentioned to that your uncle had passed away the same way. Is that correct?
Lizzy Flavin 14:09
Yeah, it was very similar. He actually he had a different form of cancer, but it was, yeah, it was very much felt like going back into losing my father in so many ways. Because he was my dad’s brother. He was definitely someone from my dad’s family had stayed very close to her family. After losing my dad. He was an important part of my grief process and had been, you know, really there for our immediate family when that happened, and of course, was also a big loss for him. And then he actually had cancer for about six years, and then passed away in 2019. And so going to visit him and seeing him in hospice care like my dad had been, he was in so my uncle was in home and my father had been enough hospice facility, me passed away. Yeah, just seen him in such a similar state was really kind of brought me back to that earlier loss. And then I think having lost my father and really knowing deeply what that meant, and saying goodbye to him for the last time, was really impactful and really challenging knowing that, like, it was only a matter of time. But I think also, again, having had that loss before and the blessing of a family who I’ve helped me continue our relationship, the Lord and leaning into I, I felt more prepared for another loss like that. And really, and also knowing, I think, even clear as an adult, like where, and just believing that my uncle would be in heaven with God and with my, with my father, because they knew, you know, they’re freaking God, that that’s what Jesus would do for them. And that was really encouraging to me in a really deep wave. And when it hurt that, yeah, that they weren’t just going into the ground. They had a continuation of life, it’s just I didn’t get to be a part of it for a while. Yeah, so I think definitely a challenge, but also something that I was prepared for. And I think in some ways, it’s like seeing someone suffer through illness can be so hard. But I think I’ve been very blessed, in some ways, by the fact that I’ve, you know, none, none of the people in my family that I’ve lost have been sudden, like, I’ve gotten to kind of prepare myself and say goodbye, and yeah, and then know where they’re going afterwards is really, really encouraging to me and has made such a big difference.
Victoria Volk 16:55
It’s really just kind of bizarre how similar stories are, yeah, it’s just really strange. My uncle wasn’t in my life. After my dad passed, he was his brother as well. But when I found out he had brain cancer, I went in, I knocked on his hospital door, not knowing if he would want to even see me or recognize me even because it had been almost 30 years to the day that my dad had passed. And it turned out to be one of the most healing experiences for me to revisit that relationship, to open up my heart to Him again, and when he had been absent. And yeah, I felt a connection to my dad that I had not felt in the 30 years prior. So I’m interested in learning what your experience has been, you know, there’s faith, and then there’s spirituality. I don’t necessarily view them exactly the same. I feel like for me, spirituality is almost more, there’s almost a deeper knowing a deeper connection or a deeper feeling is what it’s evolved for me. So, what role does spirituality play for you? And for your experience?
Lizzy Flavin 18:18
Yeah, that’s interesting. I don’t know.
Victoria Volk 18:20
Like, do you feel you know, when we talk about faith, we talk about God, right? spirituality is, it’s no our guardian angels. It’s like the people that like our guides, like people that are ever present. And all around us, you know, kind of watching over you, your guardian angels, things like that. I guess I it took me a long time to get to that probably only in the last five, six years, to be honest. It’s like faith came first. And then my spirituality came, I guess, where are you sit with that?
Lizzy Flavin 18:58
Yeah, that’s interesting. Um, I got a lot of conversations throughout my journey with loss about Yeah, like people sharing things like, oh, like your dad can see what’s happening or like, like, they’re still with you, in a way. I mean, I think I’m still at a point where that’s kind of confusing to me, like, I don’t know, and even thinking about guardian angels, like, I don’t know, like, you know, whether that’s a person who you’ve lost or someone different that God sent to help you like, I definitely think that’s possible that that’s a way that that exists, but it’s not necessarily something that I’ve, I haven’t quite gotten to the point you’re at. It sounds like because i think i think in some ways, I’m just afraid of being wrong that I’m going to like comfort myself with some idea and then find out later like, no, that’s just something that was in your head or like something sweet that people told you. Yeah, I guess. I don’t know yet. Like whether yeah, it’s just I guess, not something that I’ve really chosen to lean into yet. really focused on for myself.
Victoria Volk 20:02
You might be interested in listening to I’m trying to think what episode number it is. But it’s with Victoria Shaw. And she is my podcast. And she was on recently actually, the episode just went live, I think three or four episodes back, but she is a medium. And she’s also a licensed clinical therapist. But she’s a medium. And we talk a lot about like, just this, really tapping into our, our intuition and our inner knowing. And, but how it’s, it’s, it’s deeper than that it’s this spiritual guidance. So you might be interested in that episode. Again, like I said, like this is not something that I really leaned into myself until maybe five or six years ago. And it really wasn’t until that experience with my uncle, that just really had a profound experience in it for me when it comes to feeling a connection. Feeling that connection to my dad that I had not ever felt, you know. And it was almost like, there’s a thing to like, when I found out he had brain cancer, I could have easily just been like, isn’t been in my life for 30 years, why would I go see him? Why would I want to talk to him, right? But I felt a pull. Like I felt like I had to go see him. Like it was something I had to do. Call it synchronicity, call it serendipity call it spiritual guidance. But when I went there within 10 minutes, my cousin who I hadn’t even remembered meeting before, from Massachusetts, walked through the door. And so did his daughter, who I had not seen either since I was a kid. And so it was like this almost immediate reunion. And it was amazing. It was an amazing experience. So anyway, it’s something to maybe just open your heart to and see where where you’re led.
Lizzy Flavin 21:57
Yeah, if I can add something that came to mind as you were sharing?
Victoria Volk 22:01
Yeah
Lizzy Flavin 22:02
I do think well, like the right time to say, I think the closest I’ve come to that, that sort of experience and those things you’re describing it I would describe my experience with Yeah, sense of like some spiritual guidance and some presence with me would be, I would describe it as like the Holy Spirit’s work, being a Christian and like believing that God is like three persons and one of them is with us as especially like with believers as this spirit inside of us. And I think I’ve definitely received some comfort through that. And some guidance. I think the Holy Spirit has helped me come to like some of the conclusions I have in the piece that I have in regards to death guards to like people I love. And so yeah, I know, that’s not quite the same as what you’re describing. But I think there is some some, like spiritual guidance and some like spiritual presence. It’s so something so beyond the physical that’s really present with me. And again, even that is something that I want to be I don’t feel like I lean on the Holy Spirit, or, like, I want to grow in that even Yeah, so that’s, that’s what came to mind anyway.
Victoria Volk 23:20
No, I and I totally, I, I resonate with that, too. I do. I think for me, it was like, I think to like our while grief for me like, but he pretty much put a veil over my inner knowing, like I I don’t know, I’m asking, I’m actually interested in learning to from you. Do you feel like you’ve grown in a better understanding of who you are and of yourself through this? Or do you feel like you’ve you’re almost like moving further away from yourself, if that makes sense?
Lizzy Flavin 23:55
Yeah, that does make sense. I think the I think there’s probably some of each, there’s definitely been times and I feel kind of detached. And because i think i think grief impacts us so heavily that there’s times when we don’t feel like ourselves. And so that’s been a part of it. But I also i do think overall I have really gotten to know myself better through this and part of it is a certain level of independence that comes when you lose someone that integral to your life. You know, since my dad passed away, I can’t just go to him with my questions and assume that he’s right anymore. I have two processes myself, and I definitely like my mom helps me work through things and other people in my life. But I I think I’ve become a little more independent in the way that I think and the way that I make decisions through not having that person who in my life was really probably my main source of guidance and stability even in some ways and so I’ve really learned more what I think and what I believe and also grow And like, Okay, how do I take care of myself and like, walk through like these difficult seasons? And like walk through not having these people in my life? I think, yeah, it’s all been a journey of getting to know myself and getting to kind of work with myself in ways that I haven’t had to before with each loss that’s come,
Victoria Volk 25:22
Has anything else helped you along the way? Other like, has it just been your faith that you’ve leaned on? I don’t want to say just your faith, because that’s, I mean, it’s huge. But aside from faith, in your prayer life in your family, did you go to counseling? Or were you offered counseling or, you know, any other healing modalities that you’ve found helpful? Or that were a priority? in your life?
Lizzy Flavin 25:51
Initially, after my dad passed away, counseling or like support groups weren’t really, I think, on my family’s radar. So, we did have a lot of family that supported us, but it was definitely Yeah, it was, you know, they weren’t, we didn’t have like professionals really helping us work through it until I think about a year or two after my dad died, we joined a grief support group through Hospice of the valley. So me and my mom and sister, were part of that. And that was so helpful to me to just go to a group once a week and talk with people who had had similar losses, my sister and I were in like a team group. And so it was a lot of people our age who had lost parents, or other family members, close friends. And it was just so helpful to talk with people who understood and who had similar experiences and hear about bears and talk about ours. And just know like, even if we weren’t directly talking about our grief, like these are people who understood and didn’t feel like they had to walk on eggshells around us, but also didn’t, you know, weren’t going to be insensitive to our grief either. And then also our leaders who helped us walk through exercises to kind of process I agree, I think about different ways to heal and still remember to that was really helpful. And then later on, think I was about 14, when I started going to counseling, not specifically for grief, I was dealing with a lot of anxiety at the time and some different issues. And so, I walked into that my first experience with counseling was kind of difficult, I didn’t feel like I felt like it was just a lot of like work. And I didn’t know if it was really helping me. And then my next counselor was really helpful in processing, the other things I was dealing with, but also the loss of my father and how that was impacting me. Yeah, so those are some different tools that I really, really impacted me, I think finding a counselor or therapist who can really help you is so such a blessing and so incredible and helpful.
Victoria Volk 27:56
What did grief look like? on you, as a teenager? Like if someone would have looked at you could they have seen that you were a griever? Like, what, what how did it manifest in your life at that age?
Lizzy Flavin 28:09
As a teenager, there was yeah, I don’t know, how many people knew I started blogging at some point in my teen years, actually, about like grief and living without a father. And that was something that helped me kind of express what I was feeling and kind of worked as, like a public journal. For me, it wasn’t something a lot of people read. But it definitely was a way that I expressed my grief and, you know, post on social media, I think Or another way that I kind of express my grief and just let people know, because I think one of the hardest things for me, especially as a teen was like having to tell people because I was always nervous about their reactions, whether like it would just make them uncomfortable, or whether they’d be overly sympathetic or not sympathetic enough. And so I think like getting it out on social media and being like, like, no, this I don’t have to tell you in person, but also getting to share like what he had meant to me. I don’t really know if someone you know, could have looked at me and seen like grief, just in everyday life. But I think there were situations coming up to like all the time where we I know where the question would come up, or where yeah, just different things. What impacted me in a unique way because of my grief. And there’s always this question of like, do I invite people into this with me and like, share this or do I let people have very experienced and try to kind of hold back and deal with this on my own and so sometimes I would, I turn to my family with that and sometimes it was literally just me kind of taking some time aside to be like, Okay, this, you know, whether it’s Father’s Day or a conversation I have with a roommate about their father or their experience with loss, something that kind of brings back something that’s like So much bigger than where the conversation already was. And I have to either bring that up and face whatever reaction people might have. Or either like bottle that in or step aside and process it on my own.
Victoria Volk 30:15
I’ve learned there are two types of people in life, either internal processors or external processors, nexternal processors, they need to talk it out, they need to talk, talk, talk. And that’s where talk therapy can really help someone who’s an external processor, it’s like they have their awareness and their insights, as they’re talking. They need to talk in order to get those, feel those and have that awareness. But then there’s internal processors, and I’m guessing that you’re an internal processor like me, where we kind of need to go inside ourselves and be alone with our thoughts, the process and just the fact that you started with a blog, I’d actually journaled that’s when I really got into journaling is when I was like, when I was a kid. And I’ve been journaling ever since. But I grew up in the age of dial up internet. We didn’t have there wasn’t social media, there wasn’t really blogs. I didn’t even have internet at home. So you know, it was like at school, very different time that I grew up in. And so I think that’s a huge benefit to someone growing up today, children that name who’s a parent today actually have this huge broad network available to them, which can be good. And it can be bad, because in my line of work as a group recovery specialist, I want to share this with you too, because you said you know, you don’t know who necessarily to share it with is we don’t want to share with just anybody, right? Because they can say hurtful and harmful things that actually make us pull back and isolate even more, because we don’t feel safe to share. And so, we want to look for someone who really doesn’t have any skin in our game. No, I know your family’s a huge connection for you. And that’s, that’s great. But sometimes the relationship is no, not sometimes always. You can have like you and your siblings, your mom, you all experienced the same loss. But your experiences very differently. Your experience is very different, because your relationship is very different. And that was my experience, too. I was the youngest, my siblings were five and nine years older. So, our experiences were very different. So, you can have the same loss and very different experiences within a family unit. So, they might not be necessarily the best people to share with because they are perspective of that person might be very different from yours, because their experience was different. And so that comes to friends and everything, like someone that doesn’t have any skin in your game who you feel safe sharing, and someone who is safe, who has a heart with yours, like we say in grief recovery is someone who’s not going to criticize, analyze, or judge. And so someone who really can just your heart with yours, just listen. Because that’s all people really need to do. Just listen. And your story matters, your experience matters. And that’s why I started this podcast because whether you’re 21 or 41, you’ve had the same type of loss, our experiences are very different. And your perspective that you bring to my listeners matters. Because there might be some 21-year-old, 20 year old, a 15 year old who’s listening to you and hearing your story. And they resonate more with you because you’re closer to their age, I very much remember what 21 felt like I was lost, I was absolutely lost. My grief had me lost for decades. But it doesn’t have to be that way. We all but we all find our way. In our own time. Now, I’m to a place of a goddess. But then we might have another loss that just opens up that can of worms again. You know and for your uncle. That’s what that’s what that loss did my uncle, same thing. It’s like that’s when I realized I wasn’t okay. Like I still haven’t processed a lot. From all those other losses I had before I still had a lot of work to do. And that’s what that loss made me realize I’m not okay. And that’s what led me to grief recovery. And so, it’s an ongoing process. You’re going to have more losses in your life, that’s a guaranteed and because grief is cumulative, and it’s cumulatively negative. It just all stacks up, but so does the healing. The things that we participate in that help us to heal those wounds. Not to, and aid them not to like, to sugarcoat what’s going on. It’s being honest with ourselves. So we’re really feeling. I think that’s, I think we’re out of integrity the most when people ask, you know, how are you feeling, I’m fine, and you’re not fine. And you know, you’re not fine. Like you’re out of integrity with yourself. When you’re out of integrity with yourself, that doesn’t feel good. And so it’s this ongoing suffering that we caused ourselves just by not being honest with how we really feel. And it’s not being apologetic about it, like you don’t have to be sorry that you feel bad. Like, if a situation is too much, it’s walking away gracefully. And saying, I need this time for myself, I need to, we have, you’ll have instances that the rest of your life like that, with age comes wisdom. That’s all I can tell you. Things change, life changes, reach changes. Grief is grief, it just looks different over time, as time just passes, it doesn’t do it. Time doesn’t heal, it just passes. So, what is grief taught you so far?
Lizzy Flavin 36:06
I think we’ve kind of already touched on a lot of the things I was thinking about with what it’s taught me. But I think it’s this interesting mix of like independence and dependence that I’ve kind of learned through the process of like, I had a conversation with someone a few years ago, who had been through a similar loss. And I he said, like, I think everything that you missed from someone you’ve lost is something you have to especially like with losing a parent is something you have to like learn to do yourself and like be more independent. And I think in some ways, that’s true. But also, I think we really do need other people and other support to help us with those things. And times, because yeah, I just don’t think I could continue, or at least like be in the place I’m in, which is, I’m really blessed to be in without the support I’ve had from others, whether it’s, you know, my mom still being one, like stable parent figure in my life, or my brothers kind of stepping in and providing some of that, like sense of safety in certain situations, or helping me seven people throughout my family helping me financially, and to be able to go to college and have the resources I need to be the student that I want to be I really, like I’ve learned that there’s a lot that I can do on my own. And that i i do have the strength to walk through so much grief. And that’s but that’s all with some level of support. Like I can guess I guess, yeah, it’s taught me that, that I need people and also that I am strong as an individual. But then I like, I don’t know, if that makes sense.
Victoria Volk 37:55
Because yeah, it’s like you’re strong as an end of it. You don’t have to be strong for everybody and yourself, you can still like it’s not weak to ask for help. And that’s what I’m glad you brought that up, because that’s a good point to bring across, and how, if someone were to give advice or counsel like that, who has not really dug into their own grief, that’s where they can say something that could really send someone else into deep isolation. Because if you were to take that to heart, right, like, you’re just gonna have to do this on your own, like, you’re gonna have to learn all this stuff on your own, and you really internalize that you would have a really difficult time asking for help you think, well, I guess I’m just on my own. I guess this is how life is, this is what it’s like. Because that person is going to give you advice and their perspective based on their personal experience, right. So, if they have not had the support in their life, if they had not felt like they ask for the support in their life, that’s the perspective they’re bringing to your conversation in what you share. And that’s why I say it’s really important to choose wisely, who you communicate with your grief about. So, thank you for bringing that up. And what has led because you have a podcast, it’s called loving diversity podcast, and I was kind of I was poking around a little bit and it’s about inclusivity that word, inclusiveness? I think so. inclusiveness of, of faith has these experiences of grief and loss is that what shaped you into this mission or this passion for starting this podcast? And tell me a little bit about it?
Lizzy Flavin 39:42
Yeah, so I was actually inspired to well, I guess, going back even farther, and I think for a long time, I’ve been very aware of kind of and just like curious about honestly, the differences, just how the church seems to be kind of divided up into, you know, we have like, and it’s not, it’s not that anyone’s necessarily labeling themselves this way or doing this intentionally necessarily, but we tend to have kind of like, you know, churches that are, for a certain are tend to be filled with a certain demographic, racially or culturally or like economic status wise. And they that’s kind of how we get even as Christians within Christianity, we tend to gather based on other things that we have in common. And as I’ve read scripture and studied church history, I’ve noticed like that’s not how the church started, like the church churches, and like, the house churches that started in the first century, really broke a lot of the barriers that the rest of culture had around socio economic status, and race, and gender, and age and all those things. Like the church was a place that broke that in a unique way, early on, and now I feel like there’s so much division in the church, whether it’s based on different doctrines, or especially Yeah, like socioeconomic status, or race, or just preferences in worship, because that’s something that’s like been on my mind for a long time. And there’s some grief in that of like, why is the church to say like, why can’t we all be one like, group of Christians like God seems to have intended us to be and then in March of last year, with all the dots when I really became aware of issues with racism in America, and really allowed myself to start to process that and see like, Okay, how can like, first of all starting to understand the reality of the situation and grieve the losses that were happening in that time just for this if people you know, not people I knew, and then think about, you know, what’s my part in this? And how can I help to address this and like, help people respect one another and build a better culture, I really started thinking about the church again, quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. Where he said, essentially, that the church is one of them that are the most segregated are 11 o’clock on a Sunday morning, I think is what he said was the most segregated time in America. And that had really struck me hard. And anyway, as I was processing, I was thinking, Okay, how can I address this, like the church’s issues with division, and I started thinking about a podcast because I was like, I want to have conversations with other people. I don’t want to just talk about from my perspective, because that’s not the point. And I don’t even know that much. But what if I could welcome other people in to share their stories into to speak to their own experience, and to speak to what they’ve learned and share their experiences, feeling included from certain are included or excluded from certain church communities? And how could leadership or people around them have avoided that decision and help them feel like a part of something and like they were welcome, just as a part of God’s family rather than having to fit a certain pick fit into a certain category in order to be part of that community?
Victoria Volk 43:23
I love that. I love that idea. What are you studying in college?
Lizzy Flavin 43:27
Biblical studies
Victoria Volk 43:29
Awesome. Okay, well, that, yeah, that follow that passion, wherever it takes you that interest, that curiosity, curiosity is a big thing in life. And I think we don’t ever lose that. That’s something that we kind of just tend to put on the back burner is what makes me curious. Follow that. Follow it. I love that idea. If people want to reach out to you, and they want to learn more, how can they find you?
Lizzy Flavin 43:58
So, I’m on Instagram, you can find me at loving diversity podcast. I also, I don’t use this account as frequently as I used to. But my blog from my grief experience that I was using in high school is never fatherless. And I also have an Instagram account for that. So, if you’re interested in seeing some resources, it may become more active again. But if you want to read more about my story that’s there. And you can feel free to message me through either of those accounts.
Victoria Volk 44:29
Thank you so much for sharing your story, which deeply resonates with me, and I will stay connected with thank you for being here.
Lizzy Flavin 44:37
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It’s been great having this conversation.
Victoria Volk 44:41
Thank you for listening. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Educational, Grief, Grief Stories, Grief Tips, Mind/Body Wellness, Parent Loss |
Losing a parent is a complex experience. You may feel shock, anger or frustration, or a combination of all three. Other common experiences include feeling guilty if you weren’t there for their death or a sense of the current situation not feeling like a reality.
As a child and even when you become an adult, you expect to have your parents around for many years to come. You believe that they’re going to be there, watching over you, providing you with their help and support until you’re well into adulthood yourself. But that’s not how it always works out. Many people lose parents early as I did (age 8).
Therefore, in this post, we take a look at some of the things that you can do after you lose a parent (from an adult perspective) and why the experience is so complex.
Do What You Need To Do To Take Care Of Your Wellbeing
Grief can have a profound physiological effect on the body. That’s because it puts you into a state of shock and can often happen without any warning. Even if you have forewarning, there is nothing that finalizes a loss like that person’s death. Even though you may know it’s coming, the finality of it often doesn’t hit until after the loved one passes. You may feel as though the person is already gone, depending on the circumstances (such as in the case of terminal illness or dementia). However, again, it’s not until the loved one passes where the finality hits.
Before the passing of the loved one, there are plenty of distractions, too. Doctor visits, daily tasks of caregiving and support, and logistical and practical things people need to be taken care of while they’re alive. Before a loved one passes, these familiar patterns of behavior suddenly change with death, and this alone can put people into an emotional tailspin. Suddenly, the need to be needed is no longer there. For some, this may come as a huge relief. However, it’s still a change in a familiar pattern of behavior. For others, it’s the sudden awareness of time and this desire to fill that space of time starts to creep in, so what do many grievers do? They find a way to keep busy. And, far too often, that is the unhelpful advice others will give, too. “Just stay busy and, you’ll be fine – eventually.” So, so unhelpful to a griever.
Therefore it’s at times like these that you need to ensure that you’re looking after yourself better than you usually would. Getting enough sleep, for instance, is critical. If you struggle with sleep normally because of work, you may request bereavement leave or a change in your duties. I’ve had several podcast guests share in this sentiment, too, to take the necessary time off. You will not be as productive, anyway. When we break a leg, we go to the doctor and take the necessary time off from work to heal. Why do we not do this with our hearts? Gotchya there, didn’t I? It’s absolutely true! Our hearts need time to mend, just like any broken body part would. Granted, there is no timeline to grief, and it can feel like a luxury to have time off. For some people, that’s simply not an option. That being said, what are your options? You may need to get creative, but sometimes just changing how you work can benefit your emotional health significantly. Maybe grief will help you to realize that the environment in which you’re working is toxic and that it’s time to find something else more nurturing to your spirit.
Grief is a clarifier, and it awakens the dormancy of other hurts in our hearts. Use the awareness that it brings to make positive changes forward for your well-being.
Another area you’ll want to tend to is ensuring that you prioritize your nutrition and cooking, even if you don’t feel like eating. Healthy foods are one of the best ways to get on the road to recovery. Clearly, aim for moderation in all things, and avoid alcohol use as dependency on it long-term can harm you. As I’ve shared before, alcohol and food can easily become STERBS (short-term energy relieving behaviors) that we resort to when all we want is to feel better. These things don’t make us feel better after, though. They only pile on the guilt and shame.
Share Memories
Telling stories about the loved parent that you’ve lost can actually aid you in your bereavement. Talking to grandchildren about your parents’ lives, for instance, allows you to appreciate their life and stops you from bottling it all up.
I recall a story that broke my heart. This person was an adult whose parent had recently died. The person expressed how upset it made them when their child brought up the grandparent (this person’s parent) and how they would, essentially, shut the child down from talking about their beloved grandpa. This absolutely broke my heart.
Young children know how to grieve. Heck, they express every emotion there is, don’t they? However, as we age, it is the adults in our lives (and unhelpful and hurtful) messages in society that perpetuate this belief that we are to not share our feelings and are to grieve alone. Therefore, emotionally stifled children become emotionally stifled adults. And, these beliefs about how to grieve are then passed on to the next generation.
Do you see why this is important to understand and why I am so passionate about educating about grief? Our future generations rely on us getting this through our heads and doing better than the generation before us.
So please, as much as it hurts you, put your adult ego aside, and please allow children the time and space to express themselves. Have the conversations about how you miss your loved one – together. Cry – together. Grieve – together. You are teaching a valuable lesson that they will carry with them well into adulthood.
I was not given that opportunity, like so many children aren’t. As an adult, expressing yourself and sharing memories is the fastest (and healthiest) way to feeling better. And, it’s so important to choose your listening ears wisely, too.
Do Something To Remember Them
You can also pay your respects by creating a tribute memorial for a loved one. This could be anything, from planting their favorite flowers in your backyard to creating a home shrine. You could also explore financial options, such as donating to their favorite charity.
Take Time To Forgive
Before you roll your eyes, read on…💛
Some people are angry with their parents. So, emotionally, their death can be even more complex. You feel various emotions, some of which make you feel dreadful about yourself and who you are as a human being. Trust me; I get it.
Life doesn’t always provide us with answers to all our questions. But that’s okay – you can accept the mystery. Therefore, you can forgive your parents, even if you don’t understand why they acted in the way that they did at times.
The beautiful thing about grief recovery is it allows you to address those moments in time you can’t seem to let go of and forgive. Those times that pull you back in time, and you feel the pain and hurt all over again like it was yesterday. These moments are impacting you daily, whether you realize it or not. How you are coping (or not) impacts your life, whether you care to admit it or not.
Forgiveness isn’t for them; it’s for you. It’s not about condoning or forgetting; it’s about no longer swallowing the resentment, which is a poison you’re holding onto in your body.
Forgiveness is about emotional freedom from the pain that you will no longer let those things hurt you anymore.
Allow Comfort
Lastly, you’re allowed to let other people comfort you and take over some of the responsibilities of your life for a time. Completely isolating yourself doesn’t do much to help, and it would likely make matters worse.
This is so hard for so many people who were raised as people-pleasers. You know who you are, the ones who take care of everything without a word needing to be said. You’re the one who gives until they’re blue in the face and, deep down, resentful for it. You want to be cared for but simply were never taught how to be because, again, you maybe had to grow up fast as a child. There wasn’t any coddling or nurturing in your life, so you found your resilience, self-sufficiency, and resourcefulness instead. You likely had a lot of responsibility as a child, too.
You don’t know how to be cared for and, I get you. I do. So, rather than feeling the pressure of delegating, start with YOU. What does your heart need today? A walk in nature? A soak in the tub? Or a good belly laugh? Nurture your heart with the simple pleasures of life and feel gratitude in those moments. Then, as you go, assess what you can let go of, delegate, and ask for help.
If you have children and are a stay-at-home/work-at-home parent, you may want to put them into childcare for a while or see if you can do a child swap with a friend – it’s a win-win! Or you could temporarily hire household help to assist with the chores. Find some way to build in support.
We often don’t know what we need until someone throws it in our lap. So, if you’re reading this and know of someone on the grief struggle bus right now, steal some of these ideas or read this post on learning how to support a grieving friend or listen to the podcast where my guests share tips just like this!
