Ep 173 Zane Landin | Empowerment Over Stigma and Keeping My Mom’s Legacy Alive

Death/Dying, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, LGBTQ+, Mental Health, Mind/Body Wellness, Podcast | 0 comments

Zane Landin | Empowerment Over Stigma and Keeping My Mom’s Legacy Alive

SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:

Zane Landon, a mental health and disability advocate and founder of Positive Vibes magazine, actively promotes mental health awareness, wellness, and inclusion. Despite battling his own mental health, Zane showed up to the Mental Health Youth Action Forum in Washington, D.C., to advocate for youth mental health policies and confront the stigma surrounding mental illness, particularly the misconception that it leads to violent behavior.

In this episode, he shares his journey with major depressive disorder, emphasizing the empowerment he found in diagnosis and connection with others, as well as the healing power of helping those in similar situations. Alongside these topics, Zane addresses his struggles with weight and overeating and the recognition of the complex relationship between mental health and eating habits. He stresses the importance of body positivity, self-acceptance, and maintaining health objectives.

Reflecting on the universal impact of mental health, Zane discusses the importance of recognizing individual worth and the value everyone brings to the world. His narrative includes the profound effects of early life experiences, personal achievements, and investing in oneself. In light of COVID-19 and the loss of his mother, Zane expresses gratitude for her influence in his life and explores his belief in an afterlife and continued connections with those who have passed.

The conversation also delves into processing grief. Zane emphasizes the need to change one’s internal narrative. He candidly discusses his spiritual yearning and the lack of definitive answers in coping with the absence of loved ones. He finds solace in the hope that his mom is in a safe place or some form of afterlife, and he seeks to honor her memory by channeling his love and energy into positive actions, such as a newfound love of cooking (which his mom loved to do).

Grateful for the ability to discuss grief, mental health, and suicide openly, Zane advocates for improved societal approaches to these issues and uses social media and his digital platform to promote accessibility and encourage positive change.

RESOURCES:

• Positive Vibes Magazine
• NAMI
• ActiveMinds
• The Grief Recovery Handbook
• Mental Health Youth Action Forum
• AfterCloud
• Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive 20% off

CONNECT:

• LinkedIn
• Facebook
• Instagram

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If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

CONNECT WITH VICTORIA: 

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Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today, I have a guest episode and Zane Landin, has joined me and he is a mental health and disability advocate, a queer rights activist, entrepreneur, and positive change maker. He is the founder of Positive Vibes Magazine, a digital magazine that’s dedicated to telling authentic stories about mental health, wellness, and inspiration. The magazine has featured over eighty voices, reached thousands of readers from over a hundred and fifty countries, and secured twenty-two thousand followers on several social media channels. He attended the first ever mental health youth action forum in Washington DC, where he met President Biden, Selena Gomez, Dr. Murphy and Dr. Biden. Out of hundreds of applicants, he was one of thirty young applicants selected from across the country to attend the forum to allocate youth mental health activation, policy, and inclusion. And thank you so much for joining me today and for taking your time to share the work that you’re doing, which is obviously having an impact because people are finding you, it’s definitely needed. And for also sharing your story of grief, which is what brought you to the podcast today. So thank you so much for being here.

Zane Landin: Thank you for having me and also for facilitating a podcast on grief. It’s not a topic we talked about enough, but it really does impact almost everyone at some point.

Victoria Volk: It does impact everybody because we all grieve something. Right? Yeah. Even if it’s the loss of a dream.

Zane Landin: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Or a pet, loss of a friendship. Right? No one has to die for us to grieve. And so that’s really why I wanted to start this podcast too to help people understand that grief isn’t just about death. And I imagine in the work that you’re doing in activism and in what you have found yourself in the work that you found yourself in, the position that you found yourself in, hasn’t been necessarily an easy road because what I found in doing this podcast for almost four years now is people find their purpose through their pain.

Zane Landin: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: And so I know you didn’t come to this podcast to talk about what brought you to the work you’re doing today, but I often believe which is often the case is that, like I just said, there’s a story there and I would like you to share and we can start there what led you to do in this work.

Zane Landin: What’s funny is, I’ve always experienced mental health conditions for a young age. I don’t know if I can really think of a time I left. Right? Didn’t have an irregular feeling of intense anger or depression. Or sadness or whatever it was. So he’s so then I’m always thinking about so then I’m always working on and I saw, like, a psychologist growing up. So luckily, my family knew about mental treatment and they move forward from the mental stigma that exists, which is I think sometimes uncommon. I think a lot of people do fear how they’re gonna be judged or perceived, like, especially when it comes to mental health because of how it’s been portrayed in so many conversations and so many stories to hold online or the media. And even when you think of mental health, we resort to think about violence because of how horribly, mental health has been portrayed in so many stories, especially when it comes to, I’m just gonna be upfront like serial killers. You know, you think about serial killers and it’s always talk about mental health. And I understand that sometimes unaddressed mental health can lead to that. But if you really look at the statistics, people with mental conditions are gonna be more victimized or more violated than vice versa. So we have to wait we had to really shift that narrative that you know, it’s not necessarily with mental health conditions that are that are engaging in a valid behavior. Sometimes it’s the opposite. And because we have such a stifled view on what mental health is, people do find a way to justify their violence against them. As we’ve seen, there was that story of someone who had a mental condition that was murdered in a subway. And so It’s just the way mental is perceived. And so I understand that sometimes the mental health stigma is so powerful that it will infiltrate your mind and it will prevent you from seeking help. I think that’s a very sad thing that people have to live in that kind of world. And it still exists for me, but I’m since I’ve been in the work so much, I can really recognize what my saltigo is, and I’m just kind of at this place where I move forward from what people think and that if people are really going to look at me negatively for having a mental health condition, that’s a good sign that I don’t need to be around you, and I’m kind of creating my own community that way.

Zane Landin: So it’s like a good filtering device. So like I said, saw a psychology for many years. And then I was doing okay. When I graduated high school, I went on to university, and I was doing really well. And then there was a timeline life where nothing fit. Nothing was going well. I didn’t know where I was headed. I felt like I was in such a plane of uncertainty all the time. So I didn’t know where my life was headed. I was, like, at odds with my family because of this type of relationship I was in.

Zane Landin: So there was a lot of things happening, and there was a lot of first things happening. Like, I was in my first relationship, and I did not know how to react. I didn’t know how to feel at that moment. And then when you like you said, if you’re talking about grief, I had to grieve that relationship. Luckily, I didn’t have to fully agree with it because I still decided to see that person despite what my family said. And that was kind of the first time I was at this weird odd with my family. Eventually, they accepted him because I was still with him for many years after, and they accepted him. But it took a lot of time and grace for that to happen. And in hindsight, I understand where my family was coming from, but it was still very very hard in that moment. And there was a point in my life where I engaged in self harm. And I feel like the moment that I made physical contact with my body, like, the moment that happens I feel like that there was a, like, a I wouldn’t say I wouldn’t say in-depth. That’s that’s probably not the right word. But I would think that there was, like, something I mean that changed completely that day. And it’s not necessarily, like, my life has been doom and gloom all the time, but it’s kinda like there’s this there’s this new level of pain I never thought about, and now I do. So I have to, like, be careful with myself.

Zane Landin: Because the moment I cross that threshold, you can’t go back because it’s always an option now. I never thought about it. I never thought about it myself in that way. The moment I did, it’s there now. And so no matter what happens, no matter what I do now in my life, if I ever come to a dark place, it’s still in my mind that that’s a possibility.
So I have to really actively make sure I’m not gonna do something like that. Same as suicidal ideations I was having a lot almost every other day, maybe almost every week, something like that. So yeah. Like you said, turn your pain into purpose. And I don’t want people to only focus on the pain, and it’s good when you turn into purpose.

Zane Landin: But I think it’s also a good reminder of how far you’ve come and what you’ve had to do to get there. And so I decided to take the semester off of the university. And then after I knew myself was a huge topic, but then I didn’t realize a severity of how important it was. Until I experience it myself. I already knew about it. It’s something I didn’t know about it, but it was like, I didn’t realize how painful it can be to this extent. And I knew pain though. I did. So after that, I was like, I need to I need to create community. I need to get involved somehow. So I got involved in just different mental health organizations, and that’s all. That’s really where it started. And that’s and these organizations like active minds or NAMI, National Alliance on Mental Illness, they all did give me a sense of community of this is a place I can go to. If I’m not finding that support in the real world, because, unfortunately, it is difficult to find that support. I think we’re seeing a lot more for mental health, definitely, but there’s still so many pockets in this country.

Zane Landin: And definitely in the entire world where mental health is not talked about. And in many cultures, mental health is not even a phrase. It’s not even a thing that you can to find in certain cultures. They don’t have a word or a terminology for mental health. So how in the world do you describe your experience if the terminology doesn’t exist? You’re gonna sound like you’re erratic or you have no idea what you’re talking about. And then you’re gonna be judged very negatively because of that reason. And people have their ways of addressing mental health in different countries. I’m not going to comment on them, but they are interesting to see the least.

Victoria Volk: Yeah and I see mental health as an everyone in you because we all experience periods of time, even if we don’t have a diagnosis of a mental health condition, we all experience periods of time where we don’t feel like ourselves, where our minds kind of take control and and are in the driver’s seat and and we need to find support or resources to get ourselves out of that. Did you mind sharing? Did you receive a diagnosis? And if you did, how did you feel about that? Was that a helpful thing? Or was that a did you have a lot of conflict with that?

Zane Landin: I didn’t get diagnosed so recently because I wasn’t looking for diagnosis. And I think sometimes you can look for one and you can request if you see a psychiatrist. I really wanna be diagnosed. I didn’t. And I was just looking for mental support community support. I saw, like, a psychologist on my call, university campus. I was just interested in how can I start feeling like myself again? How can I start feeling better again? So that was what I was focused on. And then when I my first job at university, which was the job in now because I got the job recently last November. I had a great benefit plan, and so I was able to see a psychiatrist And because I was moving away, I moved from California to Washington DC in last in January, it was such a new phase in my life, rose. Actually gonna be on my own points that I needed mental support. Even if I didn’t feel like feel it in the moment, it’s kinda nice to be proactive when you need it. So I do have a psychiatrist, and she did diagnose me with major depressive disorder, which is not a huge surprise. But it didn’t feel empowering like I thought it wouldn’t. Because I kind of always envisioned what it would feel like to be diagnosed with a mental condition. But when I was recently diagnosed, for one, I kinda had the idea that I already had something like that, so it wasn’t a huge surprise. But it’s interesting because I feel like when you have this speculation, you speculate what your body is going to, you’re speculating, what your mind is going to, and it’s still speculative. Right? And then when I finally got the diagnosis, I thought it was gonna be wow. I can finally see how I acted or my behaviors or my depression, how it’s linked to a condition. But then I was just kinda, like, It’s kinda sad though because if I didn’t have a diagnosis, it would be like you said periods of time. Now that there’s a diagnosis, like, this is something I have to kinda manage my whole life. So it was an interesting way how I felt when I was diagnosed. It wasn’t necessarily empowering at first. It doesn’t it does not Because, again, now I can actually understand where I’m coming from. And if I need that support, I can find people who experience that same condition And I again, I can create another community that way or enter one. So but

Victoria Volk: It can be your field. Yeah. It can be your fuel to keep doing what you’re doing. Because I feel like in the process of helping others who are experiencing the same thing you are, that can be healing.

Zane Landin: It can be because you when you hear someone’s story of how they struggle, you, of course, can see yourself in that story. Maybe not exactly you can’t visually picture-picture perfect that story because that one is experience is different. I was actually I did a television interview and is it February or March, and they had me react to a story of a kid who was suicidal. And they asked me how I felt about that story. And I was like, all I really could say was I really can picture myself in their story. And so I can understand where they’re coming from And now that I’m in a better place and I can help someone feel better about themselves or refer them to a psychologist because I am not a mental health expert. I’m an advocate, but I am not a therapist or a psychologist. I can’t give that kind of support, but I can refer them, and I can give them resources, and I can check-in on them in my own way and give them my support of what I can do myself and that does. That is a positive fuel because, you know, you are you are helping someone out of a out of place that you were at? You know how it feels?

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You don’t need to be leaps and bounds ahead of ahead of somebody else. You can be two steps ahead. To help them. You know? Yeah. I also saw I was kinda creeping on your social media a little bit. And I saw that you had had this experience of weight. And you’ve lost a lot of weight.

Zane Landin: Yes.

Victoria Volk: And I think it was as of July, you had lost seventy-five pounds is what you had written.

Zane Landin: Wow.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So I wanna congratulate you. And a part of me wonders, like, because it correlates with your story. Right? Like, as soon as you sought out the support that you needed, you moved. Right? You started this new chapter. You thought, I think you were really empowered because I don’t think you would have lost this weight. Had you not felt empowered? Had you not felt like you can be of service to other people? And that you wanted to be the best version of yourself while in service of other people. I think there’s a really deep connection there. There’s a stronger y to the seventy five pounds.

Zane Landin: There is. And I will be honest. There was a time in my life where I focused solely on my mental health, if we shouldn’t do. Because, again, the trend. And what we say is mental health is important as physical health. But then you can, again, your physical health either of that, which is what I was doing. And so, yeah, there was a time where I just had a hard time walking. As a twenty-four-year-old, I shouldn’t have a hard time walking unless I have a condition. Like, as long as a condition, they can’t walk out. I understand that that’s just totally your story. I don’t have that. And because I don’t have that, I should not I should not be held back because of my weight. And understand that and I know people that do activism for, you know, bigger people. And I know what they say, and they say that the world shouldn’t being accessible or the world shouldn’t hold you back because you’re waiting. I agree with that. Of course, like, there are many spaces that you might feel comfortable as a bigger person So I do get that. I don’t think anyone should be discriminating against. But internally myself, I held myself back because of my weight. I didn’t want people to see me and I would get tired really easily. And so I held myself back from certain opportunities because of that. And then I think it was I don’t know I don’t know what happened. I just know that a friend of mine was on, like, this, like, diet weight loss plan, it was working. And she struggled a long time with it as well. I was like, it’s working for you and your whole family. Like, what is this plan? I used to learn more about it. And I ended up starting it. And, yeah, I just slowly not really slowly. I did lose weight pretty fast. From February to July, losing seventy five pounds. I definitely gained weight, and I’m not on the plan as much, but I’m gonna be back on it, and I’m gonna be I’m gonna take the initiative again and address it. I’m at a good place right now, but I still have some way to lose so I can be in an ideal way for like, the health goal that I have, but it was it was very difficult. And it was just interesting to see myself that way because I have seen myself as a big person my whole life. I was like, now that I’m slimming down, now that my face isn’t as, like, my face is, like, thinner now and it wasn’t for I just I see myself differently now. I have more confidence. And it’s kind of sad though that, like, you have to lose weight to kind of feel that way. But I think that that’s just kind of how the world works right now. And especially when it comes to weight and weight loss. But also, I surrounded myself with more people. The more confident I got, the more I surrounded myself with people that were in this space. And like you said, they gave me that support where I was like, oh, I should feel better about my body. Even if it’s not what I want it to be. It’s fine. And so there’s difference between being happy with your body and having certain health goals. I think everyone should be happy with their body. And if not, I hope they have the agency to do it in the right way. So I know many people that have done it the wrong way. And the wrong way is engaging harmful things with our body if it’s steroids or diet pills or whatever it is. I know every situation is different for everybody, but there are some things out there that I wish people wouldn’t do because you might lose the weight. But the after effects of the next couple years or your whole life, you might damage your liver, you might damage your internal organs, you might do these extraneous things because you wanted to lose the weight. And so I hope you don’t do it that way, which is why those, like, fat diets are kind of extreme and scary, which is I was happy the plan I went on wasn’t that at all.

Victoria Volk: And I think you bring up a key point to it in that it’s who you surrounded yourself with and there’s a quote or I heard some time ago, you’re you’re a sum of the five people that you surround yourself with. So if you’re surrounding yourself with people who love to just sit around and fudge and not move their body and and are kinda negative and see the negative and everything. I mean, that’s low vibe. That’s gonna bring you down. But if you surround yourself with people who are elevating you, who are at where you want to be, that’s an inspiration, that’s an encouragement, that’s the motivation that a lot of us need. Right? To get up and do it again. Right? Because it’s easy to start. But to cross the finish line, I mean, And there is no finish line in health. Right? And the thing is too is, do you wanna feel good? Or do you wanna feel like crap? Mhmm. And that’s I’ve been on my own journey. And I was just tired of feeling like crap. I would do wanna touch back on because you mentioned that you had the weight issue since childhood, and I know this is not what came on the podcast to talk about, but I feel like this I’m seeing a lot of ads, like, it was on Zenthick and so, like, I’m just going with the what’s in the news right now and you mentioned that you had this issue since childhood, and I’m curious, do you feel like I mean, did you have a difficult childhood or did you feel like food was how you coped and how you do continue to cope sometimes?

Zane Landin: Oh, definitely. I wouldn’t say that. Wouldn’t say I had a hard childhood. There were hard aspects of it with the weight being queer, having different theme, like, multi ratio all these different things, and I saw how my parents struggle with money at times. But I still was pretty blessed that I had the love and support from my family. And sometimes it wasn’t, you know, how I want it to be, like, every like, one of my favorite movies, I’m just gonna read this out. One of my favorite movies is Coreline. I think it’s a great story. But when you actually watch the movie, her family isn’t that bad though. Like, I think that her family is just stress. They’re, like, burnt out. They’re trying to they’re trying to put food on the table by doing the work until she’s not gonna live that she wants. When she said it’s a batch salad, I don’t think so. Just think that she’s just not getting the love that she necessarily needs it once, which is bad. But I went to essentially what makes you like, it’s not I think a lot of people experience that because it’s hard to, like, kind of replicate exactly how you wanna be loved by your family. I think it’s kinda difficult because everybody has such different needs and I don’t think every need is gonna be met. So for me, I wouldn’t say no. I wouldn’t say, well, I had a hard childhood, but there were hard aspects to it. But, yeah, I think that just my family has just a lot of members of my family on both sides struggle with weight, which isn’t surprising because a lot of people do. I feel like sometimes when I’m in the health spaces and I see a lot of work working out and it feels like, yeah, the majority of people work out and it’s like looking at it, letting I don’t think so. I think a lot of people do struggle with it, especially with, you know, how much fast food restaurants there are and how much people have to rely on it because sometimes expensive oversight. Sometimes health choices or healthy foods are more expensive. And so if someone is struggling to make an income to support their family, how are they gonna spend money on healthy food. And I know that there are other resources to get healthy food if it’s like a stipend or if it’s community garden, whatever it is.

Zane Landin: So I always encourage people to, like, seek out other resources if that isn’t the case. But, again, I understand that some people, they have to do that to support their family. I just wish there were more there were more like equitable ways to make sure that people are getting healthy food. Or just to have more options and what that looks like for their family. And so, yeah, my family struggled with that, but I don’t think it was essentially some of the stuff that we just ate like my mom always cooked and always had such a balanced meal, but it was always, you know, a lot of snacks and always the secondary foods that are around. So a lot of that is what people struggle with. And for me, I think it was yeah. I think I do. I think even recently when I was eating, when I was upset, I still am an emotional eater. And I thought even after a year, have I changed that much? No. Because I always think that I’m gonna be an emotional leader. And so, again, it’s, like, keeping yourself in check that when I’ve upset or if I’m depressed to kinda try to not fall into that temptation of just overeats because that’s a big deal. I don’t think a lot of people talk about it, and it’s not something mention a lot, but to me, it is an illness because when you look at alcoholic anonymous, when you look at that group, and we can recognize that drinking alcohol or consuming too much alcohol is a disease or it’s a problem that arises and there’s addiction with that. It’s different with food because it’s easy to think that we don’t need alcohol at all. But when it comes to food, we need food. So if someone overeats, you can just use the excuse and see it as, but we need to eat. So it’s okay if I’m eating this way. But it’s not, though. And overeating is a huge issue. Yeah. And that’s what I would say. And I wouldn’t say yeah. Sometimes I am in over a year and sometimes I’m not. I mean, no. It’s something I always am, but, I don’t always engage in over a year thing. So I’ve learned a lot about, like, balancing my meals and how to have, like, better portions, which I think is a huge thing that people don’t, that struggle with as well, like, having enough portions where you’re satisfied rather than I need to be over the top. And then in the way you’re engaging in, over eating and it can be addicting, very addicting.

Victoria Volk: Do you think it’s a greater struggle in the work that you do that you have seen at your for yourself and in other people that within the mental health space, in the advocacy work, do you see the connection of a lot of these other issues that kind of play into people’s lives like addiction with food or issues with food, what I’m getting at is, we have a relationship with ourselves. Right? We have a relationship with ourselves and our inner child and we have relationships with other people and we have relationships with alcohol. We have relationships with food, with money, with all these other aspects of our lives. And so do you feel like especially when it comes to mental health that and why it’s so important is because it affects everything in your life. Mhmm. Have you found that to be true for yourself and for other people that you come in contact with and the work that you do?

Zane Landin: I do. And that’s why in like, the mental health space, like, there are a lot of research and discussions on eating disorders. I don’t know what’s on my head. I do not know if over eating is considered an eating disorder, but It doesn’t matter. It is some form of engaging in a harmful eating that’s not good for your body. So that yeah. I do think that and that that sounds with so many things. If it’s, like, if it’s escaping your emotions and using food as a vehicle or if it’s not eating. And is that’s a way to feel control or a way to feel like you have some control in your life is to control your eating or don’t control reading or decide not to eat. Again, none expert, there’s just what I’ve observed and what I’ve seen. And so I’ve never been diagnosed with any disorder. I don’t have one, but it also stems from body image issues. Sometimes my partner comments and says the way I act and the way I perceive my body is like I have body dysmorpnea. I don’t think I do because it’s not I read a bit about it and, like, it really needs to impact your day to day. It doesn’t impact my day to day as much. It only really impacts my day to day when I see myself, and I really don’t like what I’m seeing. I think the biggest issue is I need to also see the fiscal evidence that I’ve changed because sometimes I look at my summoner here and I’ll be like, I am the exact same. I haven’t changed. What’s up with that? Like, I’m really frustrated right now because I’m not seeing a big change. And I go into my phone. I’m like, okay. There’s a difference. Alright. I see it, but it’s sad how, like, oh my goodness. Like, how wired our brains are that we it’s like we cannot accept progress when it happens. And to the point where we physically don’t even see a change, I think a lot of people do that, especially not even with their weight or their body, but, like, just even their accomplishments. Like, they’ll probably something so amazing and they’ll just downplay it. And I don’t know why. It it makes me makes me kind of sad. And I do that too. Like, we all do it. I think many people do it. I don’t know many people that don’t. They downplay their accomplishments. And I think because in this culture, I think that we try to reward humbling behavior. That’s on humbling though. I don’t think that’s humbling at all. I actually think that’s not what Humble is. I think humble is I did do a great job, and I’m really proud of it. Thank you for saying that. You don’t have to say that whole thing. But you can just say, well, thank you so much for acknowledging that. I think being humble is recognizing that you have these important strengths and that you do reselling to the table. Being humble is not, oh, I didn’t really do that great of a job. It’s not that great. I could do better in said, no, that’s not being humble at all. You’re downplaying your accomplishments. And in fact, you’re just kinda disempowering yourself, and that’s not being humble at all. I don’t think so.

Victoria Volk: I think a lot of us in general, I think we’re hard we’re wired to point out the negative and to see the negative. Right? But I think there is actually a population of people. I mean, if you’re interested in human design, I’ve been kind of looking into human design. If you haven’t, I believe it’s an open g center, which oh, most people I think the majority of people have an open g center or a will center. It’s actually where we feel self worth. I think a lot of us have that open center. And when you when that is undefined and it’s open, we do have an issue of self worth. I have it defined. And so to recognize, like you said, I think it’s recognizing what we bring to the table, what we have to offer, and owning it, owning that as a gift that has been given to us and recognizing that you are different, but you have different gifts, you have a different skill set. And together, we can move mountains. And I think that’s where we have to recognize that all of us have a different gift to offer. And it doesn’t make one better than the other. It’s just different.

Zane Landin: I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I watched, like, a really great anime recently that the whole premise was about all life is created equal. It definitely dove into, like, medical developments, which was so interesting. But I love the idea that all lines are created equal. And that sounds a little self-explanatory. Right? But I don’t think people completely realize that. I think some people are gonna hold people to a higher standard or there’s a we still organize ourselves and hierarchies and that some people’s voices are more important. I just I don’t agree. I don’t think anyone’s better or worse. I think everyone, like you said, provides something different and unique to the table. It’s just about recognizing that, but also on the other side, making sure that you are encouraging that, making sure that you are encouraging that they are here for a reason and that their voice isn’t put in. I think a lot of I think a lot of parties are, like, involved here. I don’t think it’s unique to realize on your own. I think we also need people in our lives that are gonna encourage it. Kinda goes back and say, it’s running yourself with good people. They’re gonna uplift you and you also uplift them.

Victoria Volk: Especially when you are a child. Right? I mean, because that’s when a lot of these insecurities and mental health issues kind of take hold. In the grief space, the grief work that I do, and what I’ve learned about grief is that by the age of three you’ve already learned seventy five percent of how to respond to life. The rest comes by the age of fifteen. Those formative, difficult, challenging years. But by age three, I mean, little children are literal sponges. They see and they take in and they hear everything. So let’s shift gears. And talk about really what brought you to the podcast. And I love the advocacy work that you’re doing, and that’s why I’ve spent so much time on it because I think it’s important. And I think the the more that you invest in yourself the more confident that you become, you can move mountains. You can. One person can make a change. And even like you said, even if it’s just one child that you check-in on or one friend that you check-in on, we never recognize even maybe it’s insignificant to us, but it can mean it can be life changing to somebody else. We don’t celebrate those things either. And often, we don’t even know because people don’t share that either. Right?

Zane Landin: I wish we did. I wish we more openly had gratitude. I’m not saying people don’t have internal gratitude. Mhmm. But I wish they externally, like, vocalize our gratitude. For the people in our life more. And I say, wait. But you know what? I could do that better too. Like, definitely, I think we I really do think we all can. I think it’s something I wish we would practice more. And that’s why when you enter a lot of spaces of self-empowerment, gratitude is such an empowering tool. Not a tool. But just yeah. I kind of it. But just the practice of showing gratitude is what I mean. And so yeah. And I agree with that. It’s interesting. It’s I think sometimes, you have a hard time showing affection to people from what they’ve done or what they’ve accomplished. And I don’t know why. I think that’s something that hopefully is changing especially when COVID happened. And I feel like people were more aware of people’s circumstances and we’re, like, one more compassionate of their life outside of work and all these different things. And so I wouldn’t say that means like the world’s becoming more compassionate. I just think it’s becoming hopefully more open. That it has before.

Victoria Volk: There is hope for that. Right? I have a frame picture. It’s by roomy. And it says, if you only say one prayer in a day, make it. Thank you. Mhmm. So when we think about gratitude, let’s talk about your mother because it sounds like to me just what you mentioned so far that she was a very integral part of your life and was obviously a very devastating loss for you. And in twenty twenty one during COVID, nonetheless. Right? Because that would have been during COVID.

Zane Landin: It was. Yeah. I I believe the vaccine hadn’t even been rolled out at that point either. What happened was my mom always had problems with hernias. And, yep, that was it. She had a problem with another hernia that came again. It felt like no matter how her politics or she did, she always had one or had one forming or however it works. So she was having pains again with it, and they decided to take her to urgent care. And so they took it to urgent care, and then they did the surgery. But unfortunately, she just didn’t wake up. Mhmm. So that that was it. It yeah. It was pretty devastating. And I remember I remember even telling my mom just, like, don’t even worry about whatever’s coming up. Just try to focus on your health and the pain right now and just how to make yourself feel better because she was worried about a lot of different things, of course, because that’s kinda how my mom was. So it’s kind of sad to think of it that way. And in retrospect, to me saying that because, she has nothing to worry about. So I just kinda well, depending on what people think. I do think that there is an afterlife. And I do think that, you still worry when you’re out there because I do firmly believe that we greet them. They grieve us. So if there is an afterlife, my mom is grieving us. Because she loves us, and she has to wait a long time to see us again. Even though, again, it’s so complicated because, you know, I do believe that we’re always there. But being face to face and actually our spirits touching in a the way we’re on the same plane now, because we’re in different planes now. And so it is a different relationship. So yeah. It was definitely very hard and I’m very I have a lot of gratitude that my mom was always there for me and I do love the prayer saying thank you because just thinking my mom for every single thing she did, and that’s why it was probably, it probably will be the hardest that I’m ever going to experience. But who knows? Because in my opinion, when you experience death, you think about all the ones called the people died, like, recently, my grandpa died on my dad’s side. My grandpa died on my mom’s side. And yeah. It just makes you think, like, oh, my mom’s not here either, and I have to think about all the deaths that I’ve experienced. And, again, I’m also thankful I haven’t had to experience that many deaths. But one of the first ones of someone I was close with had to be the person I was close with, it’s kinda difficult. And I think that you can prepare as much as you can. Like, I think people like preparing for grief, I don’t think he really can. Like, I think some people go, like, you know, how do I prepare myself for? Or does it feel like can’t explain how it feels. I really can’t. I can’t at all. It just feels like a sharp pain in your chest that’s removable and you can’t do anything about it. And it’s there forever. And sometimes it’s sharper, sometimes it’s not. And it’s gonna depend on whatever triggers it. If it’s a smell that reminds you of them or if a song you’ve heard, whatever it is, it’s gonna trigger that sharp pain, and it is difficult. And it is again, it’s always there, and you won’t really understand until you reach that point. And again, there’s also no return because, again, the moment, I think you lose someone that’s close to you. I mean, you inevitably change. And that’s okay. I think that’s fine. Because some people say, since so and so passed away, I’m not even the same person anymore. That’s okay. Because how could you be? Like because of what I think is interesting about grief and why we grieve people is they’ve had such a monumental, like, a impact on our lives and our identity that our identity surrounds ourself with that person. And so without them, how do we even understand your identity? And it’s and I think it’s coming to terms with no. Your identity is just different now. And it is you are a different person. Doesn’t mean you’re radically different? No. You might be though. You never know. Know, the only thing is, like, except that you are a new personnel and your perspective is very different, probably. And it’s a very difficult thing. Again, you have to come to terms with the person isn’t there anymore. And you have to kinda figure out what that means for you. Maybe you don’t think that. Maybe they are there for you still, but for some people, it feels like they’re just gone. And I know some people and connect with them still. Like, some people have that kind of gift. I’ve had different instances where I’ve had, like, pretty profoundly dreams about my mom. Some were great, but there’s one that was so so, like, lifelike. It felt so real that there’s no way that that was just a dream at all. I actually did a podcast where I talked about the dream and what it meant. And the dream was me just, like, comforting my mom. Like, I went into this space where it was a dark room and she’s hunched over, but she’s kinda lit up, like, a light. And I comfort her And then I kinda just slowly wake up, like, a final goodbye that I never got to have. Mhmm. And it felt so strange. Like, I woke up a piece of it than I ever had before, and I was like, there’s no. No. No. That that was some sort of that was some sort of communication there. There was no way that that was a dream. Well, maybe that’s what all dreams are. This so of it added this stuff and so that’s why I find it so interesting, but the grief alone is very difficult. But as you can see, I’ve had a lot of things that have affirmed how I feel about my momentum and how I do believe that there is more out there that’s for me though because I know that everybody believes that. And to me that would make grief a lot harder, though, if there wasn’t anything else out there and I really wouldn’t have a chance to see them again, but I also don’t know. I’m not gonna know till, like, I cross that path like we all will. And I find it interesting, like, death is the only thing that I think we’re guaranteed in life. Yeah. And then it’s interesting. I know I mean, yeah. They’re I don’t know if we’re really guaranteed anything in this life. Like, so are we guaranteed love? Are we guaranteed support? We’re not at all. I think the only thing that we’re guaranteed is when we die. And so I think it’s something we all have to come to terms with because we’re all gonna face it.

Victoria Volk: You said a very key thing there. You said there’s no guarantee of love, there’s no guarantee of, you’re saying there’s no guarantees of all these things. And my thought that came to my mind was especially if we’re not open to it. If we’re not open to having this continued relationship with a loved one who has passed, we are not going to have a continued relationship with the loved one who has passed. Mhmm. But to understand that that’s possible, regardless of what you believe or think spiritually, god, whatever afterlife, that relationship does continue because you’re still gonna be thinking things, you’re still gonna be feeling things about that person. That relationship continues and that’s up each of us to decide what we want that relationship to be, how we want that to look. Do we want to be pulled back in time to this devastating moment when that person passed away or this traumatic thing that we saw or replay this the negative. Right? We replay the negative in our minds over and over and over, or we can choose to work through and process all the things that we didn’t get to communicate, all the things that we didn’t get to say all the things that we didn’t get to experience and change that, change the narrative, change the story that replays in your mind. So instead of feeling sadness and you’re gonna feel sadness, but instead of being pulled back in time to that deep depression, state, or this deep hole, every time you smell something that reminds you of your mom or every time that you someone says something or mentions her name or says her name that you’re pulled back to that space instead of

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Oh, thank you mom for this message. I know you’re there. I needed that comfort. And perhaps that dream, and I’ve heard that I mean, the idea is that, you know, I’ve had psychic mediums and things on my podcast before, but I’ve heard that when someone comes to you in a dream, it is for you. It is for you. And sometimes too, I’ve heard that that’s an indicator that you need to pray for them. I don’t know. It’s your dream. It’s all of a and our our relationships are individual. Right? So all of us are gonna have these unique experiences based on our relationships. I mean even less than loving relationships, you can have experiences that are so profound that you can’t explain. And put into words.

Victoria Volk: Something else I’m trying to put into words is my experience with our new sponsor, Magic Mind, Magic Mind is a patented blend of thirteen active ingredients containing things like matcha, which supports energy, bacobá Monieri, which I’m probably pronouncing that wrong, but that supports attention, cognitive processing, and working memory, which Hello, I personally need Lion’s Main mushroom, which helps to balance mood and improve cognition, turmeric, which supports healthy blood flow to the body and brain, phosphodilisiran, which supports memory and attention span. Again, another word I probably botched, Ashwa Ganda supports the reduction of stress, and rhodiola, rosacea, and vitamin B complex, which manages fatigue, supports energy, and boosts endurance. So I’ve been taking this little two ounce shot for the past month or so and it’s only three grams of sugar at twenty-one calories, but this little awesome shot is really helped me bring some calm into my life so I can be productive. And that’s the biggest thing that I’ve noticed is this calm that comes over me. When I feel like I’m getting a little bit overwhelmed. And as a creative. Right? We have a lot of to do list and a lot of things that we’re trying to create and put out into the world and as a podcaster and and especially to add in grief and add in just the curve balls of life. Right? Like, we can use all the help we can get to feel like we’re on top of things in our life because when we have so many balls in the air, that only adds to our stress. It only adds to our anxiety. And so to have this little two-ounce shot to support whatever it is. We’re trying to create and do and to just be just to be a better version of ourselves, be a little bit more well in our mindset. Head to magicmind.com/grievingvoices. They have an option for us subscription or you can just order one time to try it out. Either way, you get a discount of twenty percent with the coupon code greeting voices, all caps. And when you get a subscription, you actually save more as well. So again, magicmind.com/grieving voices. Now let’s go back to the conversation with Zane.

Zane Landin: And what I also do love about this idea that we are that death is guaranteed. Because, again, I think we have a hard time understanding that we are all legal. I think some people will, again, look at social identities, different circumstances, and that was what makes us different. And of course, it makes us different. But in reality, we’re not different. We’re all the same species. And then when we die, it’s what equalizes us.

Victoria Volk: We all got the we all got the dash on the tombstone. Right?

Zane Landin: Right. And I find that interesting because I saw a video of this man who died for twenty minutes saying he recall this entire experience. It’s a very popular YouTube video. It’s a very beautiful experience and it’s just like interesting that we all do reach that path one day and we’re all equal in that in that front. And is there something beautiful about that that we go back to a place where we’re sphere or wherever it is or we’re back here on this planet, living another life. I don’t know, where I watched the video on how we are just one being, and we’re just recycled into many people, but we’re all just one energy, which is so many theories, so many interesting thought processes in that one. But, yeah, I always find this stuff super interesting. And I like the idea of people talking more only about grief because and that’s what gives us support and the tools to understand the relationship with them. So, like you said, we don’t travel back in time. And we’re obliterated honestly with the sadness. Yeah. And there’s always that quote. I know people don’t like it, but I do. It’s the quote that don’t be said it ended, something like that. Don’t be sad it ended, be great for what happened. I understand that not everybody wants to hear that, especially, like, also please be mindful of what you say when someone does lose someone. It’s and to me, it’s not your place to ever say anything about that person, like, like, how you should feel. Because, like, when someone go, oh, they’re in a better place. Okay? You gotta understand that when someone isn’t a very vulnerable space where they just lost someone, they really don’t wanna hear that. You know? Unless they

Victoria Volk: They should be here with you. Right? Yeah.

Zane Landin: Yes. And so no. That’s absolutely right. But so I think you want to understand that, you know. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing. I think when someone is going to agree with process, just just show up for them. You don’t have to give them advice. You don’t have to fix their problems because you cannot. You cannot do that ever. And there’s no point in trying to set up yourself for failure because you will fail. There’s no way you can ever do that because I know some people try to do that. Like, let’s get you in a better mood. It’s not gonna happen. You can do things to maybe support them. But sometimes in that moment, just be there for them. You don’t have to try to make them happy. You don’t have to try and distract them from their grief. It’s impossible. They’re going to always be thinking about it. But if you can show your support and your positivity, and the kindness. I hope that that will help them. And that get that probably is a lot more than you think it is. And then they get to a place where if they ever need your support, they can reach out to you. So that’s what I would say. What’s interesting is I find it easier to have conversations with people that have lost their parents. I saw someone post recently that they had a hard time going back to the gym. Since their father passed away, and I didn’t even realize that. I didn’t even realize that their father passed away. And so I even reached out and I said you know losing parents is so damn hard. And I hope you find some peace right now. I hope going to the going back to the gym like you’re doing is gonna give you some peace because that is a hard thing you’re you have to deal with, and you only experience it two months ago. And I’ve had almost three years to kind of understand it. And even still, I don’t really fully understand it because it’s like a lifelong thing you have to figure out. And that’s why I also believe that like, when people say grief gets easier with time, I wouldn’t say it gets easier. I would just say, you’re used to the pain at this point. Is it easier? No. Because the pain is always a sharp pain. It’s like you have a thicker coating now, but it’s still there and it’s always gonna it’s always gonna penetrate your body. It’s always gonna make you feel bad or you have this pain. But, yeah, it’s again something that just doesn’t go away. I see it as almost have not exactly. But, like, having a mental health condition. It’s like that. Not the same, but that it’s something that’s lifelong there is actually, like, a condition called, like, prolonged grief, which is an interesting one. It’s kinda like saying that you’ve had this long period of grief, and you should be at point where you’re getting over it. I don’t think I fully agree that that’s a condition. But I do like I don’t know. It’s interesting. I don’t go into, like, an interesting thing here, but I do like the idea that there is something there with grief because I don’t think that there’s enough work for it, especially in the workplace. Like, if someone passed away and, like, okay. You get three days off to figure out everything else. Like, what? Like, no. That’s why I actually understand, like, medicalizing grief is interesting because maybe we can convince employers, no. I mean, like, time off. I need to take a leap of absence because this is really difficult and it’s impacted my body and health every single thing. And so I also wish grief was taken more seriously on in that way. So when you do experience grief that in the workplace, they understand. And they don’t come with the attitude that it’s been a week. You can come back to work and you’ll be fully efficient. Right? No. That’s not how it works. And someone might need three months. And so that’s the only reason why I could ever see why it would manifest grief only in that way, I would never want it to be a negative thing. Oh, that all makes sense.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. And here’s the thing with grief, like prolonged grief, or complicated grief, or complex grief, it’s all grief. Grief is just grief. Mhmm. We don’t need to add any labels to it. Right? It’s almost like a mental health diagnosis. What did that do for you at the end of the day? Right? You know what you’re experiencing? You know what it feels like? Can the label can be empowering. But when it comes to grief, that’s not empowering. No label for grief is empowering. There isn’t a single one that’s empowering, and the thing is we’ve all learned these myths of grief, and time heals all wounds is one of them. And a time doesn’t heal, it’s the action that you take in time is what heals. You got to, like, one of my one of my guests a long time ago, and she’s gone through the grief recovery method, which is the program that I facilitate that I worked through my own grief with because I lost my dad when I was eight. And she says, when you lay, you decay. And that’s the truth. When you lay, you decay. And when you are deep and grief, that’s all you really wanna do. And that’s that’s okay for a time. But if you find yourself laying and laying and laying, not living life to its fullest not living out your fullest potential. That’s not living. And I know so many people, like, even when my dad died, a part of my mom died with him. She was a very different mom. I imagine your dad is a very different dad. Maybe for the better and maybe not so much. It depends on how a person chooses to respond to that. Do you choose to get support and resources and help and talk about it? Or do you do what society has taught us to do and to grieve alone, replace the loss, try replace it with food, alcohol, sex, gambling, whatever it is, whatever advice it is. Right? Mm-mm. This is why I started this podcast. People just don’t understand grief. Even therapists, psychologists. It’s not even in their schooling, not even in their education.

Zanre Landin: Really?

Victoria Volk: I’ve been to suicide prevention forums, rooms of social workers talking about suicide prevention for military and veterans. Not at once did the word grief come up? Not once, don’t you think grief has a little something to do with suicidal ideation? With the experiences that military personnel have experienced on deployments.

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I mean It is a no brainer. Right?

Zane Landin: It is. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 0: And considering the life that we, the lives that many of us live, there’s so many chronic issues whether it’s the economy, whether it’s, your personal circumstances, whether it’s sit and watch the news, like, oh my gosh, and then children are watching these killing games. That’s all the games are nowadays. It’s just killing each other. Right? Like, all of this is information that we all take in. We’re looking at toxins and we’re taking in toxins in all kinds of ways, day in and day out, so no wonder we’re all freaking depressed.

Zane Landin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, then I think people question, yeah. I think it’s not when I hear this because, you know, least I see that. At least my generation Generation Z. They’re talking more about mental health. And I know sometimes they’re viewed negatively for it, or they’re the emotional generation. Now I hear people say, well, my generation, we just we just do what we have to do. Is that really a positive message though? Did you really wanna do that though? That’s what I question people. It’s like, I understand that’s what you had to do because your generation, you really did not talk about this kind of stuff. Mhmm. But do you really think that helped you? Like, if you really could live in a generation where you could be more open with what you experience. Why don’t you wanna live in that generation? And if not, well, okay then. But I hope a lot of them say, yeah. Actually, I would like to live in a generation more. I keep you open with my emotions. I could be more emotionally available for my partner. Or my friends or whoever is in my life that I love, and I could show up differently if you feel like you could. I mean, again, if you maybe you should have been the best way you could. You never know with a certain people. Maybe they did. But I like this idea that as a culture, we’re becoming more open about grief, and I see a lot of grief podcasts. I’m like, I’m so happy that not only I can share my story, but all these other people and all their guests get to do it as well. And someone is facilitating that conversation because and I think this is why grief is so hard. Not just grief flow. That’s already hard. I mean, that’s that’s never really gonna change. No matter what, but I think the if we live in a culture where we have to bottle it up and we can’t express it, that makes it even harder, so much harder because where do I go? Nobody understands. But maybe they do. But maybe they’re not open about their grief. Maybe more people are open, you’d be like, wow. Actually, you understand grief. You do too. I didn’t even realize, like, let’s Let’s have a community. Let’s actually host a brief chat. Sounds weird, I know. But something that we can continue in the conversation and you just provide, like, a peer to peer support on when you have this trigger. Again, we can’t provide expert opinions because we’re not experts. Like, again, I’m not an expert. Unless you are, unless you’re a grief counselor, you have that training. That’s not what I’m saying. Like, just peer to peer people that just just experience it on the everyday level.

Victoria Volk: Well, and it comes back to I mean, and how you can support and help other people as a griever. You can speak from your own experience. Sure. But it’s learning about grief itself. And I just wanna say, I highly recommend the book, the grief recovery handbook because you will learn more about grief than you’ve ever ever learned in your life. Even with experiencing it. It just brings a better level of understanding of why you feel the way you feel, what you’re experiencing. So I highly recommend that book or the first twelve episodes of my podcast is all about what we talk about in grief recovery. Because I fully I will say this. Recovery is possible. I’m a testament to it. It was it derailed most of my life, my grief. My life changed when I decided I wanted to change it. And we all have that power, and we all have that agency within ourselves.

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And just meet ourselves where we’re at with compassion. But I think we all have a personal responsibility because we are all part of a collective. Right? And so if I can become the best version of myself, I can show up better for my neighbor, for my friends, for the cashier. I don’t have to be an asshole to the cashier. Right? Because of whatever I’m experiencing. There’s no excuse for treating others unkind.

Zane Landin: Yeah. No. I agree. And I really wish I did not see that normalize, and it kind of is, where if someone is trained so importantly, it’s like, have to like, oh, they’re probably going through a hard time. It’s like, I’m at this place where I remember saying that. But I was like, I have empathy. I understand where they’re coming from. And it’s like, no, that’s ridiculous actually. I should not know where you’re coming from because you should have no right to treat someone like that. I don’t care what you’re going through. That sounds kind of heartless. I know. But why? Why should you have the right to treat me like that? I didn’t do anything to you. That’s your life. That’s the people in your life. That’s up to you. I had nothing to do with it. But I understand, like, sometimes people just lash out. Sometimes people have those moments. I get it. If you’re perpetually being like that, and you’re using the excuse of what happened in your life, it’s not fair because I don’t know anyone in this world that has not experienced any sort of struggle. I’ve never I don’t know anyone that hasn’t experienced anything. That’s not possible. Even someone that’s the most privileged, the most rich in the world, whatever their privileges are, they have something that has helped them back. They have something that has that they have a fear. Everyone has that. And so I don’t ever agree with, you know, you treat people warmly because of how you’ve been treated.
Because you are no different from the person that wronged you as well then that’s how I think. I think that, again, if you’ve been treated a certain way and you treat other person that way, you’re just creating a cycle of negativity and darkness and you’re no better and that I think is sad because to turn from being a victim to a perpetrator is a sad reality. And it happens, especially when people are abused, like, sometimes they become abusers, and I don’t know why. I again, I don’t know a lot about it, but I’ve heard stories of that that happens to people. Or their victims and they put their any positions where they’re victimized again. And it’s just such a sad reality but it was a little randy. But just kinda going into what you were saying that, I agree that there’s there really is no excuse to treat someone like that because, again, all of us have our issues, all of us have our challenges. But if we show up in such a positive light for someone else. I think that we can inspire others to be kinder, to be better, and again, what are you accomplishing by treating someone like that? What you need besides bringing them down with you? And that’s what some people want, though, and that’s sad.

Victoria Volk: And that key thing you said was, it is it’s it’s up to us. Right? Like, it’s it’s up to each of us. Like, we all play a role.

Zane Landin: We have yeah. I think some people don’t realize that. We have our triggers. Like, things will not trigger us. Like, well, that’s my trigger. Okay? But it’s not natural how you react. No. I think that again, actually, you’ll have a trigger. Something would trigger you. But there’s no there’s no way of saying this is how I’m gonna naturally react though. It’s an eight. No. It’s not. I think the trigger saying that happens. But again, if you choose how to react, you choose how to treat people, that’s exactly what you do. There’s nothing that is involuntary like you’re saying it is. Because I know people that don’t say, if I react negatively, it’s because of this, and I have my right to act like that. Sure. Everyone has a right to express how they want it. I don’t think you have a right to her other people though. That’s not fair.

Victoria Volk: And that comes down to, again, like, with with grief. Right? Because, I mean, you can become a you can become a griever who’s an asshole. It’s possible. Right? But if you work on yourself, that’s the only thing you have control of this yourself. Like, the environment And then the world around you is not gonna bend to your will. The only thing you have control of is your free will and what you decide to do and the actions that you take or don’t take, which is a choice too.

Zane Landin: I see that a lot now, and I thought we were almost past this. Where we we ship our own, like, we choose how we wanna be and we, you know, we kinda disassociate from what people say about this. We move away from how people judge us and perceive us. But I still see that though. I still see people that and I do sometimes, but I know people and I see even content creators that they thrive on that validation almost constantly. And without it, I don’t even know how you move forward if you don’t have it all the time like you accustomed yourself to. And so I know that people who experience or around in their life, and they want validation all the time even from strangers. And it’s like, how are you going to how are you going to feel better or be better if you don’t have that validation one day? And I see that’s

Victoria Volk: I think that’s that’s the voice of a victim. That’s someone who feels like a victim and who has an attachment to suffering. And that was me for a long time too. Like, I just thought, like, my life, I’m just destined to suffer because it was just one hit after another after another after another. You know? And that’s that is life. Yeah. It sucks. Life sucks. It surely does suck.

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Vlk: It can I mean, if that was my perception? Right? Like, life just sucks. This sucks. But we have a choice to sweep our own doorstep or not. And it’s not up to it’s not anyone else’s responsibility to make us whole, to make us happy, to fulfill some whatever it is that we’re trying to fulfill in our lives. That is our responsibility. There isn’t enough personal responsibility in this world. And I think that’s

Zane Landin: I agree. And that’s again, like I said before, if that’s impossible. Like, me helping someone who’s grieving, I cannot fix your problems. I can be there. I can try to support you. But, again, at the end of the day, you kinda have to do that for yourself. And, again, it’s also it’s not right for you to put the burden on someone else because they should not exhaust their emotional needs to help you. So you need to be fair to the other person as well that you are not mentally exhausting them by putting a burden on them fixing your problems when, again, you need to do that.

Victoria Volk: And this is why I’m so glad the conversation went here, and this is why it’s so important to seek support from somebody who has no skin in your game. Someone like me, I’ve you know, I don’t know you from Adam. I have no skin in your game of life. There’s nothing you can say to me that’s gonna make me turn on you or you know what they mean? Like, we don’t have this intimate relationship.

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And I can go to bed at night and what what is yours is yours and what’s mine is mine. And it’s taken me a long it’s taken me a long time to be able to do this work and to get to this point, but it’s because I worked on myself, but we all have that capability. That’s what I’m trying to, like, just scream to the rooftops. We all are capable of working through this the most devastating parts of our aspects of our lives, it’s possible.

Zane Landin: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And So what is one tip that you would give a hurting heart today?

Victoria Volk: Okay. Let’s see. I guess I would say, take it one day at a time, and that maybe one day, you’re having a really hard time. You think it’s always gonna be like that, but take it every day because you never know the next day is gonna be. Maybe you’ll feel better. Maybe you and I hope you have I will say the courage it I think it is very easy to stay in the darkness. Mhmm. I understand. And then he was, well, why do you wanna stay suffering? There is an attraction to suffering. There it is. I know that that doesn’t sound right, but there is. I’ve seen it in many places in society that we wanna hold on the negative as much as we can. And so it is very easy to stay in that darkness. And it is someone to learn. And I do think that there is actually, like sometimes that there it’s like a good feeling to be sad. It’s interesting. It’s not that it’s happy. Besides when you feel said or you’re crying, it can feel kinda good. It’s interesting. I know it doesn’t sound right.

Victoria Volk: But crying can be a release. Right?

Zane Landin: I think that’s

Victoria Volk: They’re all valid emotions. It’s not, like, it’s bad to be sad. And that’s not what I’m saying here at all. And I don’t think you are

Zane Landin: Oh, definitely. No.

Victoria Volk: It’s information. Yeah.

Zane Landin: And it still has a balance. I don’t know if there’s anyone being sad or being negative, grabbing that depression as long as you hopefully have a balance of having a that positive energy in your life too. Don’t avoid yourself with all the negative either because I think, again, a balance of union and union you need you do need both to to be the best you can. So that’s so, like, what I was saying was, you know, it’s easy to stay in that darkness, but I hope you find the courage to get yourself out of it and not completely because that’s it’s a slow process. And if it’s reaching out to someone or doing activity that you used to like or even visiting a burial site. It means for some that could be very very positive for some people or maybe it’s just taking the day off or going to the beach. Anything you think is gonna calm your mind? And again, take it one day at a time. You’re not gonna come out of the darkness or feel the best and most positive person you were before, in just a day. It can take a long time and maybe he won’t be there one day like you were before, and that’s okay. That really is.

Victoria Volk: So what is one memory of your mom that when you think of it or or maybe there was something that you did together when you think of it or when you find yourself doing it that you feel good and you think of her?

Zane Landin: I think about My mom was a huge cook, and she didn’t bake that much. But when she did, we always loved it. But I remember I was like, I really wanna bake something. I love watching baking shows. There’s something so comforting about that. And I just wanna start doing it. Like, I wanna start doing that. And so we made these really nice chocolate chip cookies and we tried, like, three different types of chocolate in it and that was very fun. And it was the first time I got to bake something because, again, my mom kind of always did it. And so I never really got to help. And if we tried helping, we just kinda got in our way. So we kinda just stopped didn’t really get to help as much. And so what changed is interesting is I love that so much. And that was, like, honestly, the month before she passed, actually. Because it was in it was Christmas time and she passed in January. But now what’s interesting is even going back to the weight loss. When I started the plan, I needed to cook my own food in February. Which was like daunting. I was like, okay, cooking my own food. I’m a little scared. I would just rely on frozen foods that I would just heat up. So when I cook my own food, it was a slow process. But since February to now, I cook all the time out. I wanna do it all the time. Like, I was like, should I even, like, change my career and when I’m doing it and start cooking? Probably not. But there was a look at my job yesterday and I made lobster mac and cheese and it was okay to be honest, no bragging here. It was very good at the time of my recipe. I found it online, but I changed a lot of things that I wanted in the recipe. But I was very happy with it and it was like, I don’t get to click bottom for other people, especially at my job. That was the first time. But now that I get to cook and I get to big stuff, and I made chocolate chip cookies at home recently when I was back in California. And I made a post. I was like, no. I don’t. I didn’t really think about it. It wasn’t really conscious, but why am I feeling sad doing this? I don’t really know. I wasn’t, like, really sad. I was just it was, like, a sadness, but it was also comforting. It was very weird. But I was, like, it is a sadness, but I also love doing and I had Harry Potter music playing in the background of my mom and I loved watching and listening to the music from those films and when I made them, I was really happy how they turned out. And I was I just kinda reflected on that, and it was just a it was a sad thing, but it makes me wanna do it so much more now. Because, you know, I get to kinda cook with my mom now. And I don’t have any regrets, but I do wish I got into cooking before, so I was like, my mom was always like, every single time we watched the movie, we were a man and cook for his wife. She was always so happy. She’s like, I want someone to come in and cook for me. My mom was just always the cook though, and so wish I knew how to cook because I would cook her so many things. Anything she wanted, I’d be so excited to make because I love doing that. So not a not a regrets. I don’t have any regrets, but that’s one thing you know. I kinda wish that I did before, but now I do it all the time, and I wanna do it all the time. And when I get to see my mom, it’s I could just, like, tell her about all the things that I’ve I’ve made, maybe not all of them. There’ll be a lot at that point. And I just hope that when I get to taste it myself, she tastes through me. I hope so so that she can taste herself. I hope so. I hope that’s how it works.

Victoria Volk: So I just had a thought. So does she have a lot of her own recipes that you have?

Zane Landin: No. That’s what’s said. It’s okay though because I have an idea of the stuff she made and I can always find it myself, but that is one thing I tell people, chronicled your family, whatever it is, like, maybe even, like, do an interview. Like, do a video interview and, like, have them talk about their life. And even if it’s, like, couple hours, like, you have that chronic illness now of their life. And it’s so much better than you imagine what it was or trying to remember what that story was. Now you can actually pass it down that’s the same with cooking. It’s like, please, get their recipes, have them write it down. I know it’s in their head and they don’t write it down, but have them write it down so you can chronicle their wisdom.

Victoria Volk: There are apps for that actually. One, I had a guess yeah. I had a guess on my podcast some time ago. He developed an app called AfterCloud.

Zane Landin: Oh, wow.

Victoria Volk: I believe that’s what I think there was a branding shift, and I think it’s still called AfterCloud. But I’ll link to it in the show notes. But, yeah, there and there’s actually other apps too out there that help you to document just what you just said to create a family heirloom of sorts. But I can imagine that you know somewhat of what she made and how you can make it and yeah. And then you could share it with your neighbors or share it with, you know, the cookies, especially, like, share it with other people, maybe another griever, a taste of mom’s cookies. So

Zane Landin: Yeah. It’s so interesting just being in a place where I didn’t cook, and now it’s all I wanna do in that. That is, like, the probably the best way for me to express affection right now. Mhmm. I think it’s always going to be now. I don’t know why. It’s not that I can’t communicate as I can. But it’s more like, I care about you, but, like, I’m gonna put my soul in beans when I’m making for you. And then I really hope that comes out that way. And that is, like, the best way it’s, like, a love language. And I hear people say that cooking is their love language. And I say that now. And then people, like, I don’t even get what that means. I’m like, do you even know what that means? Like, cooking is so hard for, like, there’s so much involved when it comes to cooking and, no. Like, the people I love, I get to make something for them make them happy in that way. It’s just it’s so rewarding. I wish I could share that with my mom. Like, now I get why she love cooking too.

Victoria Volk: And maybe that’s part why you’re drawn to it is that Yep. You recognize now that connection that to food. It’s a relationship. Right? And so maybe a part of this you wanting to cook and things is is is what is going to help you shift your relationship with food. Right? And so that it’s no longer this drive, like controlling force in your life that it’s you are changing the narrative around food. It is now a source of love and nourishment and vitality. Right? Yeah. Not only for yourself, but whomever you decide to share it with and break bread with, I think it’s a beautiful thing.

Zane Landin: It is. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: Is there anything else that you would like to share? And I don’t wanna say this too because one of the things I’m actually gonna ask this because it’s on my forum and you filled it out. And you I love your answer. And if you don’t remember what the answer was that you put, but I ask, what would what would you like to scream to the world in the past or recently in which people knew about your grief? What you had said then when you filled out the form was my grief doesn’t make me broken. It has made me stronger.

Zane Landin: My gosh. Wow. Sorry. So I’m trying to remember. Because like I said, before we started, I don’t remember when I sent that in, but that is true though. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I agree

Zane Landin: I able to look at me differently. And I don’t think people do. But I do think that there’s another layer that people understanding now. Like, there’s a depth that they understand of something that I’ve gone through. Who knows? Maybe people do see me as broken. But I don’t. Again, I’m not gonna I don’t I’m not concerned with how people perceive me. How I perceive myself as I’m not broken. It’s a thing that, again, everyone experiences and I experienced it. And I know I do believe in the mindset that everything happens for a reason. I don’t know what the reason is. I don’t need to know. I just thought there’s a reason my mom passed. There’s a reason I discovered cooking. There’s a reason had such a great relationship with her, whatever it is. That’s how I feel that it was her time. There’s no reason why. Because I know some people will grapple with that. Like, why did that person pass? There’s no need to ask why? There’s no answer. If that makes you feel better, then that’s, you know okay. But I think that that just that would make me feel so much worse because there is no why, there’s no real why. There’s no why because there shouldn’t there’s no reason why they should be gone at all. They should still be here. That’s what I would say. I don’t I don’t see myself as broken. I just see this something that I’ve gone through and it’s something that makes me stronger. And that’s exactly how my mother was too. I didn’t see my mom as a broken person even though she went through so much, so much loss, so much so much like, just a lot of stuff so much. And but I never saw myself I never saw my mom has broken. I don’t know how she saw herself. But because she was such a life for everyone else, no. We didn’t see her that way. She was the kind of person that, of course, can that lit up around. And I know a lot of people do say that. I feel like, at this point, it’s a little cliche when I hear that. But there’s no other way I can describe it. Yeah. So I guess that’s what I would say. And also grief doesn’t define me. I’m not a I’m not a person who grieves. It’s not my identity. It’s just when that happens to me. It’s when I’m always gonna carry but I don’t want to see myself as a griever. I wanna see myself as a strong person that still has this powerful relationship with my mom. In grief, it’s just something I’ve had go through.

Victoria Volk: And you’re thriving? I believe you’re thriving. Do you believe so too?

Zane Landin: I think I am. No. I know I am because I’ve had many opportunities maybe just coming to DC and living here for a year and just the relationships I’ve made and the people I’ve come across and just the routines I’ve had just in the past. Couple years alone. I’ve had a lot of great opportunities before my mom passed, but I think it’s just kinda sad that I had a lot of opportunities. So many that my mom well, especially, yes. Like, she got to see them and experience them. But the one thing that I think is the hardest is I don’t get to hear her voice. I don’t get to hear her excitement anymore. And there were so many things that she was into that she I can’t really imagine how she would react to some of them. Like, when I got the opportunity to go to the White House, my mom was always wanting to go there and I know she would be on the same fight with me. Or before I actually interned NASA. My mom loved NASA. She loved anything to do with space or the universe. Just so many different opportunities in me just working at well, I didn’t even ever even mention it, but I do work for National Geographic. My mom just she sounds like we had the magazine lying around, but just working for National Geographic. I know my mom would be very excited about that. So it’s just kinda or speaking on television and just seeing me the TV screen. There’s just so many so many opportunities that I wish she kinda I got to physically see her react. But other than that, I am very blessed.

Victoria Volk: I’m just gonna take a moment to celebrate you for a moment because, you know, we talked about not owning our accomplishments and things like that. And especially with grief, we can have that loss that really just takes us down. But instead, it’s cracked you open. And look at everything that has opened up for you because you didn’t allow it to take you down. I think that’s an inspiration for people and for my listeners. So I just wanted to highlight that and make a point to say that.

Zane Landin: Yeah. Thank you. And one of the things that I think about is, you know, where where would they want you to be? I don’t know many people that would want you to be depressed about them. I mean, yes, it’s had that had that low low of sadness, but it’s like you say, Was it lay and decay? When you lay and decay

Victoria Volk: Lay and decay yeah

Zane Landin: When you lay and decay, it’s, like, I don’t think I don’t know anyone that wants you to feel that way. And so, like, I have I consciously have to think about what mom would want for me, and it’s like, would my mom want me to soak in that? When mom want me to take the opposition and go for an opportunity, no matter what the outcome could be, you never know what’s gonna happen, and sometimes it could be good, sometimes it won’t be but I think my mom always pushed me to accept any challenge that came my way.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I think even moving forward, I think that’s the driving question. You can ask yourself, what would my mom do? What would mom do? Yeah. Because she was such a light for you, and I’m glad you had that experience. Relationship with her and that it is continuing, that relationship is continuing because I think too, it can happen. We didn’t really get into this, but a lot of what can happen when people lose somebody is that, you can get very angry at God, you can get very angry at the world, and just completely shut down. And that was me too for a long time. Like, I was very angry. I didn’t step into a church. I was I was spiritually thirsty. That was an aspect of my life that really went downhill. And so I just encourage people to be open, be open to the possibility and like you said, we’re not gonna have all the answers. We’re never gonna have all the answers. But do we have to? Right? Would it make a difference? Would it change anything? You know?

Zane Landin: Yeah. I think it’ll

Victoria Volk: The result is still the same. Right? They’re still without this person.

Zane Landin: Yeah. I think that people they want the answer. Because I think when you have that answer, It’s like you feel like your path is set, but I really don’t think that there is an answer. How could there be? Because I know some people say, oh, maybe God wanted them closer. No. I don’t think that at all. I don’t that’s incredibly selfish. I don’t think I would want that. And if that’s the case, why would you want them there? If they’re such a light, why wouldn’t you want them in the world, preaching, love, that you want the world to be as God. Right? And so I don’t believe in that. And so I never want people to question the why because there is no answer really. And like you said, if you do get an answer, it doesn’t really change anything.

Victoria Volk: So what gives you the most hope and joy for the future?

Zane Landin: It’s what gives you the most hope and joy for the future is knowing that my mom is still out there and some sort of spiritual way, whatever it is. She’s still there and I still have this relationship with her, and I get to build on it, and I get to do things that remind me of her. And that gives me hope. Like I said, it’s not a guaranteed answer, but if I knew that there was a guaranteed afterlife. I would feel an ultimate peace in a way. Wouldn’t change it. It wouldn’t change a lot because she was so gone. But just the comfort of knowing that she’s in a safe place and I will see her one day that she said that’s enough. I will never know that for sure. But what gives me hope is that that might be that might be out there. And if it’s not, well, I hope not. But if it is, I still have the beautiful memories and I can create more positive memories with other people, with my mom in my mind.

Victoria Volk: Channeling her love and her energy and her light through your good work. Right?

Zane Landin: I won’t feel to remember that way because like, my mom doesn’t hear anymore, but I want people to feel that way when they interact with me. That, there is a there is, like, a specking me that reminds them of my mom or if they haven’t met her, it’s like, well, that’s what my mom would be like. You kinda have met her maybe. I remember even telling a story, and my partner was, like, it’s almost it’s almost exact how you tell stories like her and I was like, really even like my family friends are like, yeah. It’s very interesting how you’re almost just like your mom at times. I’m like, wow. Well, I love hearing that. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: That’s wonderful. Anything else that you would like to share that you didn’t feel like you got to share that you want listeners to know?

Zane Landin: We really don’t think so. I really think we got into a lot of different topics about grief and also mental health and human suicide and the work I get to do. No. Nope. Not at all. Just thank you so much again for having me on.

Victoria Volk: And where can people find you?

Zane Landin: Oh, I mean, I’m on, like, Instagram and LinkedIn. And the digital magazine you mentioned is positive by its magazine. You can find me by just typing in my name. My social media handles or all my name, just show people who type my name, exactly where you’re gonna find me, just so I am just so I am accessible to people as much as possible.

Victoria Volk: And that’s how they access the magazine as well as through your social channels.

Zane Landin: Yeah. You can find it there too.

Victoria Volk: Okay. Well, thank you so much. I will put all those links in the show notes, and I thank you so much for joining me today. This really, truly did feel like, a conversation, like, you know, a really what’s the word?

Zane Landin: Like a dialogue.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. But more like yeah. But of really deep issues that are impacting all of us, like everybody. Right? Like, we’re not resistant to soul that isn’t touched by grief and there isn’t a soul that isn’t probably touched by mental health, whether it’s themselves or someone they know or love or care about. Right? Like, it’s an both of these things are an every one issue. And I think I think we’re getting better. And that’s what gives me hope is, as a society, I think we’re getting better. We have a lot of work to do. But I think with people like me and like you or using our voices for positive and to share what we’ve learned and what we know and helping where we can help and be of service. I mean, that’s the best we can do. Right?

Zane Landin: Yeah. This is so great. Thank you so much.

Victoria Volk: Thank you so much for being my guest today and for sharing your time with me and my listeners. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.