Death/Dying, Grief, Grieving Voices Guest, Pespective |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Are you truly living if you’re ignoring the inevitable end? This question might feel heavy, but Greg Barnsdale doesn’t shy away from it; he has built a movement around it.
Greg is not your typical undertaker. With his diverse background as a Certified Financial Planner, Certified Executor Advisor, and death doula – topped with personal experiences that have tested his own mortality – he brings an unparalleled perspective to life’s final chapter.
In this episode:
- Uncover the life-changing benefits of adopting a ‘mortality mindset.’
- Learn how planning for the end can actually enhance your present.
- Hear about Greg’s transformative journey from near-death to advocacy.
- Explore why families must break the silence on this taboo topic before time runs out.
Did You Know?
Despite being an expert in end-of-life matters himself, even Greg faced procrastination regarding his arrangements. His candid story will challenge you to think differently about tomorrow.
After penning a book on end-of-life preparation and facing his brain tumor diagnosis, Greg has become a vocal proponent of what he calls the “mortality mindset movement.” He shares his insights into why embracing our inevitable end can lead to profound benefits like stress reduction, family harmony, and emotional resilience.
Greg’s diverse background, from directing funerals to advising on estates, gives him a unique perspective on why having those tough conversations about death now is critical rather than in times of crisis. His own brush with mortality served as a stark reminder that life is unpredictable and planning ahead is key.
We also delve into how societal views on funerals are shifting towards more personal and intimate commemorations. Plus, Greg offers practical advice for both simple DIY estate planning and when to seek professional help for more complex scenarios.
His message? Don’t wait until it’s too late – start talking about your end-of-life wishes today. It’s not just about ensuring peace of mind; it’s about living fully right up until the last moment.
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Embracing Mortality: Living Fully by Planning for the End
Death is a subject that many of us prefer to avoid. It’s uncomfortable, it’s frightening, and it often feels very distant from the vibrancy of daily life. However, Greg Barnsdell—a man who wears many hats as an undertaker, financial planner, certified executor advisor, and death doula—argues that acknowledging our mortality can be one of the most profound actions we take toward living a meaningful life.
In this episode of “Grieving Voices,” Greg shares his personal journey with mortality after being diagnosed with a brain tumor. His experience has led him to become a vocal advocate for what he calls the “mortality mindset movement.” This philosophy encourages individuals not only to accept their inevitable end but also to prepare for it in ways that leave behind a positive legacy.
The Unseen Benefits of End-of-Life Planning
Greg emphasizes how planning for our demise can offer unexpected gifts:
– **Reduced Stress:** Knowing your affairs are in order provides peace of mind.
– **Family Harmony:** Clear directives alleviate potential conflicts among loved ones during times of grief.
– **Financial Resilience:** Proper planning secures assets and ensures they are distributed according to your wishes.
Despite these benefits, procrastination is common. Host Victoria confesses her own hesitation on this front—an admission shared by many listeners.
A Life Unexpectedly Intertwined With Death
Greg’s career trajectory took an unplanned detour into funeral services when his dreams of becoming a helicopter pilot didn’t pan out. Through his varied experiences in both funeral directing and financial planning, he gained unique insights into why preparing for death is crucial—not just at life’s end but throughout its entirety.
He advocates having candid conversations about death within families before crisis strikes. These discussions prevent confusion and strife during moments already heavy with emotion—the grieving process becomes slightly more bearable when there’s clarity about final wishes.
Personal Loss as Powerful Motivation
The sudden loss of Greg’s mother was pivotal; she had thoughtfully prepared for her passing which greatly eased her family’s burden during their time of mourning. Her foresight served as inspiration; even those seemingly healthy can have their lives change—or end—instantly due to unforeseen events or health issues like falls or illnesses.
As someone who has faced my own health scares head-on—including surgery related to my brain tumor—I understand firsthand how quickly one’s perspective on life (and death) can shift when confronted with one’s vulnerability.
My book aims not only at inspiring others but also serves as my testament—to urge people not just to think about these matters but to act upon them while they still have agency over their decisions. Yet ironically enough, I found myself facing down my own advice shortly following its publication when I was thrust into confronting my mortality anew through illness—it reinforced everything I preached about early communication regarding end-of-life choices.
Legacy Isn’t Just About Assets – It’s About Intentions
I’ve learned through both professional encounters and personal trials that appreciating each day isn’t merely platitudinal—it requires action so you may influence your legacy positively posthumously. Discussions around wills or medical directives should find space amidst family gatherings rather than waiting until necessity demands urgency—and potentially breeds conflict.
For some individuals without complex estates or familial ties such estate planning might seem straightforward enough to tackle alone—but caution should be taken here too because oversights could result in significant emotional strain later on if plans aren’t thorough.
Living intentionally means recognizing every day offers opportunities towards crafting the narrative you wish left behind once you’re gone—that includes making informed decisions around funerals too which increasingly lean away from traditional practices towards personalized memorials reflecting individual beliefs preferences whether religious cultural otherwise.
Finally sharing knowledge via social media platforms like TikTok where viral videos spread awareness quicker than ever before helps bridge generational gaps ensuring messages reach wider audiences faster than traditional methods would allow thus helping demystify topics previously shrouded by taboo silence fear misunderstanding alike.
So remember preparation isn’t pessimistic—it acknowledges reality embraces certainty empowers control creating lasting impact beyond measure securing tranquility amidst uncertainty embracing every moment fully along way.
To learn more and delve deeper into these concepts consider picking up “Do Not Ignore Your Mortality” available online through major retailers including Amazon connect further via LinkedIn, Facebook searching for either author name book title respectively let conversation continue grow evolve together society whole better off knowing ready anything comes next no matter what may be.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:14
Welcome to another episode of Grieving Voices. Today, my guest is Greg Barnsdell. He is an unusual undertaker. After years of stressing to others, get your grief get your excuse me, Get your affairs in order.
Victoria Volk
00:00:14 – 00:00:39
And finally publishing a book to inspire others, he was diagnosed with a large brain tumor. Faced with a death sentence, he opted for surgery. He’s now emerged with an extremely compelling message shared by few others. As a certified financial planner who is also a certified executor advisor, his perspectives are unique. As a death doula who has published a well received book regarding the importance of planning and ahead.
Victoria Volk
00:00:39 – 00:01:16
His message is gaining solid traction. He stresses what he calls the mortality mindset movement where followers uphold their living legacy and becoming the best versions of themselves and ultimately leave their last legacy as the best one possible. His claims include the fact that end of life planning reduces the stress of aging, improves family harmony, creates greater emotional and financial resilience and increases social capital and improves court efficiency. And a growing number of people firmly agree. And as an end of life doula myself, I wholeheartedly agree as well.
Victoria Volk
00:01:16 – 00:01:35
But have I personally done my own homework? I will admit that I have not. I think about it a lot, actually. Like, just even the fact that when you have a business, right, like, it’s even more important that I mean, I was just thinking about it the other day. I’m thinking, oh, my gosh.
Victoria Volk
00:01:35 – 00:02:02
Like, if because I have an 18/17 and 15-year-old. And if I something happened to me, and I’m just thinking about my business and all these accounts and different like auto like this, all these autopay stuff I have, like all of this stuff, like, oh, my gosh, That’d be so overwhelming for my loved ones. You know, incredibly overwhelming. And my husband is not, like, tech-savvy at all. He would be just completely distraught.
Victoria Volk
00:02:02 – 00:02:21
So I know a lot of it would fall probably on my middle. And she’s only 17. Yeah, I need to get my act together too. So thank you so much for joining me today and maybe encouraging all of us to finally get our affairs in order and doing some planning ahead.
Greg Barnsdale
00:02:23 – 00:02:41
Well, thank you for having me Victoria it’s a It’s a tough topic, isn’t it? And it’s something that a lot of us don’t want to face because we just assume that each day will carry on and tomorrow will be the same as today and yesterday was. It’s not an easy subject to think about.
Victoria Volk
00:02:42 – 00:02:46
How many years have you been working in the death space?
Greg Barnsdale
00:02:46 – 00:03:39
Well, I’ve worked in a number of different roles, back in the, I’m almost 60 now. But when I was, almost 20, I joined the, funeral industry. I wanted to be a helicopter pilot actually, but didn’t have enough physics, so I ended up being an undertaker, which was a bit of a shift. And I worked at that for a decade in large and small funeral homes and really enjoyed it, and my family were not in the industry at all. It shocked my parents and my sister when I told them that I wanted to be a funeral director, but that’s what my guidance counselor had actually recommended in high school. So, I enjoyed that industry, and then I actually changed, kept my funeral director’s license and actually joined the financial planning industry, and enjoyed that for quite a number of years too.
Greg Barnsdale
00:03:39 – 00:04:20
I gained the certified financial planning designation and I always knew that the experience that I had in the funeral industry and dealing with families at the time of a death, and also helping many people pre-plan ahead of time, for their funeral, would somehow I’d be able to create something that would help people. And All my financial planning clients knew that I was a funeral director as well, and I was always eager to speak to them about putting plans in place and updating their life insurance make sure they had a current invalid will and all those things so that if something happened, their family would be in far better shape than they otherwise would.
Victoria Volk
00:04:21 – 00:04:35
I wanna go back to that guidance counselor. What do you think it was that he or she saw in you that recommended or suggested that? And what was it in you that was like, oh, yeah. I think I would like that. Just curious.
Greg Barnsdale
00:04:36 – 00:05:04
I don’t know Victoria, but I suspected it was the fact that I was a rather quiet person. I still am. I’m very much an introvert as opposed to an extrovert, But I think it was that and maybe my interest in medical issues and science and those sorts of things. But in this smaller high school that I attended, I think I was only the second student in its history to join the funeral industry, actually.
Victoria Volk
00:05:05 – 00:05:24
Once you got into it, though, like, it does definitely take a special person, Right? So what do you think it is about you though, that you were so successful in that endeavor? You know, because so many people, especially at 17, 18, like, they’re lost. They don’t have a clue what they wanna do.
Victoria Volk
00:05:24 – 00:05:36
And, you know, you kinda just pluck something out of the air and hope it sticks and off majority of the time, it doesn’t. Right? Like, it’s yeah. So right. That’s a grief too.
Victoria Volk
00:05:36 – 00:05:49
Like, a loss of hopes, dreams, and expectations for your life. Like something that this other thing you wanted to do, but you fell into this and it turned out it worked for you. But
Greg Barnsdale
00:05:43 – 00:05:43
Yes,
Victoria Volk
00:05:43 – 00:05:49
What is it about you like? What makes a special undertaker?
Victoria Volk
00:05:49 – 00:05:55
I guess when people are looking for someone who they’re entrusting, really,
Greg Barnsdale
00:05:55 – 00:05:56
yes,
Victoria Volk
00:05:56 – 00:06:03
their loved one, their morning experience to, like, what are some things that you recommend that people look for?
Greg Barnsdale
00:06:04 – 00:06:42
Well, it’s a compassion for other people and what they’re going through and having empathy with those people and knowing how to help them and listen to them I don’t think I had any special unique skills going into the funeral industry but as I joined it and worked with others and learned about the industry, I actually enjoyed it, which to some people may sound a little unusual but working in that industry gives employees or workers in the death care industry a lot of personal satisfaction knowing that they’re helping people on the worst day of their life.
Victoria Volk
00:06:42 – 00:07:52
It is one of the worst days of someone’s life. Right? It is an experience that on oftentimes it’s unexpected and it’s and like we were talking before we started when we started recording, It’s overwhelming. It’s just a completely overwhelming process.
Greg Barnsdale
00:06:52 – 00:06:52
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:06:52 – 00:07:08
And to be able to sit with people in that time of need, Did you have a lot of experience with death prior to that?
Victoria Volk
00:07:08 – 00:07:20
Like, had you had what had what were the lessons and what were the beliefs and things that you had about death and experiences that you had before you went into that industry?
Greg Barnsdale
00:07:22 – 00:08:36
Well, one of the more significant, events in my life was the death of my grandfather, of a heart attack, actually, just prior to me attending college to become a funeral director But other than that, I didn’t as I said, I didn’t have any family in the funeral business I didn’t have any direct ties to the industry. But, a good friend of mine actually in high school ended up working for this small town funeral home, cleaning on a part-time basis after school. And behind the funeral home was an ambulance service which used to be quite common years ago but, anyway, I would go and visit my friend Mike occasionally at the funeral home and then I got to know some of the staff and some of the ambulance attendants and then it just seemed like an interesting atmosphere to learn more about and then I inquired about going to college that was my plan B as I said because the other occupation didn’t work out for me so I ended up going that route and I’m so glad that I did because I worked in the industry for quite a number of years and I still have my funeral directors license So it’s been almost 40 years now that I’ve been a licensed funeral director.
Victoria Volk
00:08:36 – 00:09:01
What are some mistakes, learnings? I hate to say mistakes. I think everything is a learning experience. But what are some things that people need to understand about that process and maybe some tips that you can provide people when they’re going through something going through a loss and find themselves having to speak with someone like you.
Greg Barnsdale
00:09:01 – 00:10:10
Right. Well, the most top of mind thought that I have really comes back to this book that I’ve published.And the primary message of this, Victoria, is for people to try and embrace this whole aspect of the fact that ultimately we will die, and it’s important vitally important that we get thinking about this and plan for it. There are so many people and I saw this in both the funeral industry and when I worked in that industry I don’t anymore I’m promoting this book full time but when I also worked as a certified financial planner and also as a certified executor advisor as you mentioned in my bio, I’ve seen so many situations where people have been reluctant to plan, they’ve been reluctant to talk to their family members or in some cases they go I suggest they talk to their children about educating them on what they want and where their will is and the plans that we’ve been putting in place financially, etcetera. And in some cases, the children don’t wanna talk about it or they’ll say things like, oh, dad, don’t talk about that. You know?
Greg Barnsdale
00:10:11 – 00:10:34
I get it that people are uncomfortable with, so much of this, but in overcoming that uncomfortableness in the short term and talking and planning around what we want in regards to our end-of-life experience and for our legacy, etcetera, makes it so so much easier for those that we love after we’re gone.
Victoria Volk
00:10:35 – 00:11:06
Considering there’s so many different ways that people leave this their physical bodies, you know, tragic accident, cancer, you know, where you have maybe more time and maybe with, with the diagnosis, maybe you don’t even have a lot of time. Sometimes people pass
Greg Barnsdale
00:10:50 – 00:10:50
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:10:50 – 00:11:06
really quickly after a diagnosis. Is it advised that people find someone, an executor or a financial planner? Like, what are the steps that you recommend people take if there’s if they’re yes. I read your book.
Victoria Volk
00:11:06 – 00:11:12
Do not ignore your mortality. I wanna do this. I wanna get started. Where do I begin?
Greg Barnsdale
00:11:12 – 00:12:20
Well, the first initial steps should be speaking with those that you love, those that are closest to you about what you want to have happen. And within my book, I list some of the, questions that I think are good effective questions. And people tell are telling me that after reading my book, they’re inspired to get talking to their family and pull out their will and read it and really lean into this which is awesome I’m that’s really was the whole intention of this book that I want to share with as many people as I can because this is so desperately needed but that is the very first step, Victoria, is to speak with our family about do we want to be buried and if so where is where are past family members buried or do we want to be cremated or do we now people have the option of actually being recycled of all things so that you know the the funeral industry the death care industry is slow to change but it is changing and people need to know what their options are but if we don’t communicate with others about how we’re feeling in our values and what’s important to us, it did it stalls.
Greg Barnsdale
00:12:20 – 00:12:21
It doesn’t get going.
Victoria Volk
00:12:21 – 00:12:51
What do you think are the aside from not maybe the individuals themselves or the loved ones who just don’t want to talk about it? And then something happens and then, you know, there’s all this overwhelm happening within a family. And then you got dynamics. Right? Family dynamics
Greg Barnsdale
00:12:40 – 00:12:40
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:12:40 – 00:12:51
where I mean, I’ve seen it personally myself in people I know in relationships where, you know, the parents pass or the last remaining parent passes, and they didn’t have the stuff lined up.
Victoria Volk
00:12:51 – 00:13:01
And there’s so much in fighting
Greg Barnsdale
00:12:54 – 00:12:54
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:12:54 – 00:13:01
and relationships just deteriorate and blow up because of lack of planning.
Greg Barnsdale
00:13:02 – 00:14:03
Right. And ironically, Victoria, end-of-life planning are not only reduces the stress of aging but to answer to come circle back to the point the very important point that you just raised as we talk with our family about our legacy and what we want to leave behind and who gets what, etcetera, and if the cottage should be left or the the cabin should be left in the family home and who’s gonna buy it and who’s gonna use it or the family business or whatever it tends to that higher level of communication in regards to something that is truly in our heart about our legacy and who we are and what we leave behind tends to improve family dynamics and family harmony, and I get what you’re saying. I too have seen it within my own family. You know? It it’s so prevalent in families all over the place it seems but and is there such a thing as a normal family anymore?
Greg Barnsdale
00:14:03 – 00:14:20
I don’t think there necessarily is but you’re you’re exactly right At the time of a death and afterwards, especially if the affairs have not been organized thoroughly and discussed thoroughly, it can often result in a frustrating mess.
Victoria Volk
00:14:20 – 00:15:04
I wanna kinda talk a little bit about and if you wanna share any personal story around this or examples of stories that you’ve seen, be feel free to, but I just for people listening, I wanna just bring this to the topic of grief. And when you have a loved one that passes, and we’re talking about that dying that family dynamic, and you can have 4 people, 4 children that grow up in the same household that have very different relation. Every single individual in that family will have a different relationship with that parent. You don’t always know as the other siblings or other family members what that relationship was like. Your parent could have had a really close relationship with a niece or nephew that they almost considered like a child.
Victoria Volk
00:15:04 – 00:15:45
Right?
Greg Barnsdale
00:15:05 – 00:15:05
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:15:05 – 00:15:45
That they include in the will, and then the children are kind of don’t get something that this other individual got, and they don’t understand it because they don’t understand that relationship. They didn’t know the dynamics of that relationship.
Greg Barnsdale
00:15:30 – 00:15:30
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:15:30 – 00:15:45
And I think that’s where so much of this infighting happens is that we’re bringing our perspective of our grief and our relationship with that person and that individual who passed and just emotionally vomiting all over each other is what we end up doing and projecting our own emotions about this loss and what this means for me and what this means for them. And, you know, they were always the favorite and they’re getting everything.
Victoria Volk
00:15:45 – 00:16:04
And it was all these whatever the perspective was about the relationship, it’s going to just completely manifest at this really old emotionally overwhelming time, which is to your point of why it’s so important for us to plan ahead. Anything you would like to add to that?
Greg Barnsdale
00:16:05 – 00:17:16
You’ve hit the nail on the head, Victoria. It’s the aspect of ignoring these sorts of things and doing nothing is very easy to do in the short term I think putting off these types of topics is is the easiest thing to do and we’re all procrastinators at heart and we can all be doing things better, I think, to a degree For those that do ignore these types of things and don’t have the conversations the chance of them dying and leaving a mess of frustration and bitterness and a lousy legacy and family in fighting is incredibly high plus the fact that more money is typically spent in regards to settling the estate could very well be that a good amount of money is spent on lawyers’ fees to sort out the bickering and the fighting and the and I was speaking to and I was on another podcast, host session last week and he ended up spending over $50,000 in legal fees to sort out his situation that’s why he wrote a book and it took over 7 years to settle the estates of his mom and dad. His brothers and sisters no longer speak to one another and he ended up having a heart attack in the process.
Greg Barnsdale
00:17:16 – 00:17:55
So you know that’s just one story of many but the overriding solution to all of this is to face our mortality and accept the fact that we’re not going to live forever. And at some point, we may become frail and unable to make decisions for ourselves. So it’s also important to have something set up like a medical directive or a power of attorney as we call them here, in Canada to have someone speak for us if we can’t make those decisions and it’s not easy to set that up either because again, we have to face the fact that we might not be able to speak at some point.
Victoria Volk
00:17:56 – 00:18:40
I’m glad you brought the conversation there because I wanted to talk a little bit and bring a little bit more of the end-of-life doula,
Greg Barnsdale
00:18:01 – 00:18:01
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:18:01 – 00:18:40
background that we both have into the conversation because my father had been diagnosed with cancer and I think 16 months or so was how long he lived. He wasn’t given that long, but he lived that long and we ended up in the nursing home. And, you know, now there’s so many much more like hospice and home health. And there’s so much more of those resources available now that there weren’t back then. But I didn’t understand one thing that shocked me when I went through my end-of-life doula training was that it is possible to have a death experience that you want, like, I did not even believe I didn’t even know that that was possible.
Victoria Volk
00:18:41 – 00:19:27
Like, you can decide what kind of music you want to be what you know, if you want music played, if you who you don’t want to come see you. I mean, and making sure that you have someone, you know, like the gatekeeper, right?
Greg Barnsdale
00:18:46 – 00:18:46
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:18:46 – 00:19:27
You have a gatekeeper that, you know, make sure that your death experience is what you want it to be. And once you pass, do you want to be washed and all of these things that I hadn’t even considered that it just really opened my mind to, do you have any personal experience with because I personally have not utilized that end of life doula in my area, just because I it’s a very rural area. And I’m still trying to determine what that service or what that offering would look like for me personally, in my area.
Victoria Volk
00:19:27 – 00:19:32
But do you have any personal experience that you would like to share or talk about in that regard?
Greg Barnsdale
00:19:33 – 00:19:59
I’m glad you brought that up, Victoria, because this too is critically important. And you’re exactly right. I think the vast majority of the population is not aware of these sorts of things. And that’s why these specialized types of podcasts like yours, that is so vitally important for people to tune into if they’re interested in this. It’s funny how I just said if they’re interested in this but if their hearts beating they should be interested in this right?
Victoria Volk
00:19:59 – 00:19:59
Right.
Greg Barnsdale
00:19:59 – 00:21:15
But when I last year maybe it was 2 years ago now when I completed my hospice training as a hospice volunteer, one of the things that they had asked us as part of the exercise and the training was to, write down how we wanted to die. And in all my training as a funeral director, I never had to do that. I had to fill out my own death certificate and those sorts of things and write lots of practice obituaries in my initial training and so on, which was helpful for that role. But I had never been asked before how I wanted to die, and it seemed like such a bizarre question and some of the people in the room were saying well I want to be on the golf course or I want to be doing this or I want to be doing that and it’s something that I think we should all consider at some point because you’re exactly right we do have those choices now and we in Ontario Canada where I am, I’m seeing and hearing of more and more hospices being set up all the time and when I wrote this, created the research the manuscript for this book that I published last year I realized that there is such a massive demand for people needing to volunteer for hospice.
Greg Barnsdale
00:21:16 – 00:21:29
There’s all kinds of facilities and services all are more and more all the time, but there is such a demand for people who unfortunately are dying, who are being admitted, and and they just need someone to come and speak with them.
Victoria Volk
00:21:29 – 00:21:57
That might just be the prompt I needed. Thank you for that. It’s not just about like how you want to die or what that process is that you want it to look like. But like you said, it’s very important that you have someone that you trust in, in that will have your best interest and will be steadfast in and committed to following through with what your wishes are. If you cannot speak, if you get to where you cannot speak.
Greg Barnsdale
00:21:57 – 00:21:57
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:21:58 – 00:22:25
And that’s a really difficult position to be in, and it’s not for everybody. And then, you know, but if you, as the person who’s, you know, preparing that transition has chosen that person, other family cannot argue that, right?
Greg Barnsdale
00:22:20 – 00:22:20
Right.
Victoria Volk
00:22:20 – 00:22:21
Like other family,
Greg Barnsdale
00:22:21- 00:22:21
Right.
Victoria Volk
00:22:22 – 00:22:25
they, you know, that’s and how much distress and grief and in fighting will you eliminate by just simply choosing that person yourself?
Greg Barnsdale
00:22:25 – 00:23:26
And that fiduciary, as they’re called in that role to speak on your behalf, may not necessarily agree with your wishes of what you want if you’re, incapacitated and can’t speak but he or she has to speak up for you at that time which again is vitally important but as an example if I have in my power of attorney that I don’t wanna be put on life support and I would rather just die well my wife would have to speak up for me even if she didn’t necessarily agree with that and I had a conversation recently with my elderly father he’s almost 90. My mom died 4 years suddenly, and actually flatlined in front of me in the hospital which is another story but, my surviving father has recently decided that he wants to establish a do not resuscitate order so if something significant happens to him, he would rather just die. And that’s, again, a tough conversation to have, but we’ve had the conversation between he and I and my sister.
Victoria Volk
00:23:26 – 00:23:55
And let’s talk about your mom because I imagine that was very traumatic at the time and you didn’t have time. Right? You didn’t have the time to say all the things you wanted to say. And, you know, like what in the work that I do become emotionally complete, you know, as you maybe would have if someone was terminal and maybe you had a little bit more time in that process, but to have those deep and important conversations. So what would you like to share about that experience and what you glean from it after that?
Greg Barnsdale
00:23:55 – 00:24:28
Well, I guess the biggest thing, Victoria, is the fact that life can change on a dime. You know, my 82-year-old mother was rather active. She was an organist in a church and she had she was the organist at the local funeral home that I had worked at in this small town and she helped work for that funeral home for decades as the organist and she was out Christmas shopping with her girlfriend and after lunch she actually slipped and broke her hip ended up in the hospital broke her wrist as well and her mom died this way ironically in
Victoria Volk
00:24:28 – 00:24:28
Hmm
Greg Barnsdale
00:24:28 – 00:25:24
very similar fashion years ago but, we said to her mom you’ll be fine you know we’ll get you some physio they’ll be you know fix your wrist and it’ll take some rehab and such but you’ll be at home again with that in no time and then I was visiting her the next day she flatlined and here I was sitting there studying for my next estate planning exam and, and she flatlined all these nurses and doctors came in they started aggressively doing CPR and then they put her on life support and she died the next day so and it all seemed like a bad dream and just because I’m a funeral director doesn’t mean that I’m immune to the same types of feelings and turmoil etcetera. It was painful, incredibly painful, But I was so grateful that she had taken the time years ago and we had she and I had numerous conversations about what she wanted, primarily, I think, because I was a funeral director.
Victoria Volk
00:25:24 – 00:25:30
The burden that took off your father as well at the time, because here he how long had they been married?
Greg Barnsdale
00:25:30 – 00:25:32
Decades. They were married in 1960.
Victoria Volk
00:25:32 – 00:25:35
You know, so he lost his lifelong love.
Greg Barnsdale
00:25:35 – 00:25:35
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:25:36 – 00:25:46
In an instant. And imagine that’s like losing a limb, you know, you feel like you’ve lost a limb and a part of yourself and the overwhelm that that brings. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:25:46 – 00:25:55
So I’m sure that your presence and what your education and knowledge was a gift to them. And in that time too.
Greg Barnsdale
00:25:56 – 00:26:44
Yeah, well I think it certainly made it easier to a degree but it still seemed like a bad dream and so many people would had commented at the time of the funeral about how it was just so hard to believe that she was gone. And I’ve heard families say this so many times when I worked in the funeral business, that you know here we were sitting down in a funeral home arrangement office discussing you know all the details about the upcoming funeral in the next few days and when the body is going to be released from the hospital after the autopsy and all those sorts of difficult conversations that I had to have with families as a funeral director and quite often they would say things to me like I certainly never expected this to be part of my day today
Victoria Volk
00:26:46 – 00:27:02
My mom is gonna be 81. She still works. She still can get around and, you know, doesn’t need a walker or a cane or anything like that. And I feel like I would probably be thinking the same thing to myself. It’s she was out shopping, right?
Victoria Volk
00:27:02 – 00:27:09
Your mom’s out shopping. I mean, I could totally see that with my mom. And one of my mom’s greatest fears is falling on ice.
Greg Barnsdale
00:27:09 – 00:27:09
Yes,
Victoria Volk
00:27:09 – 00:27:36
And breaking a bone and breaking her hip and she will not go to work. She will stay home if it is really icy. Or if there’s been a lot of, you know, weather the day before a couple days, which is like she that is one of her greatest fears. And rightfully so because just like you illustrated, it’s like you think that they’re gonna recover and, you know, they’re gonna walk out of the hospital. And like you said, just need some physical therapy.
Victoria Volk
00:27:36 – 00:27:47
And, you know, a lot of people break bones and it doesn’t end their lives, you know? So I imagine that, yeah, it was a shock.
Greg Barnsdale
00:27:47 – 00:27:53
Yeah. For elderly people, for them to suffer a broken hip can often mean their demise, unfortunately.
Victoria Volk
00:27:54 – 00:28:11
The healing process right. Is not as quick and it’s, you know, you can, you’re more apt probably to blood clots and things like that. That,
Greg Barnsdale
00:28:12 – 00:28:12
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:28:12 – 00:28:21
Yeah, but this isn’t the only thing that happened to you that kind of just flipped your world upside down in an instant. I mean you’ve had other things too and one of those was I think I mentioned that in your bio a little bit was your tumor.
Greg Barnsdale
00:28:21 – 00:30:09
Yes, as I jokingly say to my wife who has asked me for years, Greg do you want to get a tattoo, And I’ve always said no now I can say I have a tattoo I’ve got a 6-inch scar up the side of my head from having this non-cancerous tumor removed that too was a shock and as you said in the bio Victoria I have worked in and around death much of my 40-year career in various roles including a supervisor for one of the largest mortuaries in all of Canada actually so I’ve seen a lot but after taking years literally many many years to publish this, finally publishing this book with a message to help inspire people to plan ahead accordingly for their situation because everybody’s situation is so different 2 months after I published the book with a professional publishing firm I get diagnosed with a brain tumor which seems so incredibly ironic. Her key thing about this was my general physician who told me about this didn’t tell me if it was cancerous or not and I assumed it was cancerous but he said I’m waiting to hear back from an ear nose and throat specialist he should be calling me back here today and they want to set up an appointment with you as soon as possible because he showed me on the MRI in his computer it’s a large tumor and this all started from a ringing in my one ear so if you know of anyone or any of the listeners have tinnitus or tinnitus I think it’s called in one ear that’s the kicker it could be a brain tumor quite often people have tinnitus in both ears and that’s not indicative of a tumor but MRIs are more prevalent so they’re noticing these more and more all the time mine was an acoustic meaning hearing neuroma and as I said it was large they removed most of it almost a year ago.
Greg Barnsdale
00:30:10 – 00:30:23
And the recovery has been really good. I’ve been very happy with it. I’ve lost all the hearing in my left ear, which was a known, risk going into this and quite likely. But I’m I’m willing to put up with that. But they removed most of the tumor.
Greg Barnsdale
00:30:23 – 00:30:30
There’s still about 20%, that they couldn’t remove because it’s tightly wrapped around a number of facial nerves and my brain stem.
Victoria Volk
00:30:31 – 00:30:33
Yeah. I actually have ringing in my right ear.
Greg Barnsdale
00:30:33 – 00:30:35
You should get it checked.
Victoria Volk
00:30:35 – 00:30:40
But I was in the military too. So I’ve always just chalked it up to that. Thank you for that.
Greg Barnsdale
00:30:41 – 00:30:44
You’re well. I hope I hope I hope it’s all clean and you’re good to go.
Victoria Volk
00:30:45 – 00:30:56
Thank you for saying that. But brings up the question then, how has that changed your perspective on your health? How has this experience changed that perspective of your health?
Greg Barnsdale
00:30:56 – 00:30:57
I’m kidding.
Victoria Volk
00:30:57 – 00:30:59
Yeah. You’re being funny. I got it.
Greg Barnsdale
00:31:01 – 00:32:04
Well, actually, it’s inspired me to look after myself even more. I truly do think, Victoria, that there’s a higher power at work in my life that has given me a second chance because as I said, this tumor was non-cancerous. Then the recent MRI that I had is seems to be indicating and I’m still waiting to hear from the neurosurgeon actually but in the copy that I have from my interpretation of it as a lay person it seems that the tumor is not growing so I’m doing everything I can to look after myself and my wife is after me to a hearing aid but I think I’m getting along pretty well without it and I don’t want to put up with the hassles of a hearing aid at this point anyway but it’s truly given me I guess a greater appreciation of end of life issues because when I got home from that visit with the doctor my general physician, and he said, you’ve got a large tumor. The specialist is going to be calling you. I didn’t get you I was home 20 minutes later, in my vehicle and walking into the house and my cell phone went off and it was the secretary for the specialist office saying Greg, can you come in Monday morning at 9 o’clock?
Greg Barnsdale
00:32:04 – 00:32:22
We wanna see you. So I thought for sure I was doomed and it was cancerous my wife was working from home that day so I didn’t want to ruin her day with this terrible news that I had. So I didn’t tell her all day. And then I didn’t wanna ruin her dinner Thursday night. And then I didn’t wanna ruin her sleep Thursday night.
Greg Barnsdale
00:32:22 – 00:32:47
And then I didn’t wanna ruin her Friday. So I ended up telling her Saturday morning as Celine Dion’s My Heart Will Go On is playing in the background as we’re having our coffee and tears are coming down my eyes, and she said what’s wrong? So I had to tell her. So I did I had to face my own death after decades of telling all kinds of other people get act together and face this thing.
Victoria Volk
00:32:47 – 00:33:15
My husband loves Celine Deon. But that I mean, I was just I was kinda in the moment as you were saying it, and it’s like, anyone listening, just see yourself in this scenario. Like, just see yourself in this scenario and what would you do and what do you need to do to get your act together? Do not ignore your mortality as the title of your book states, and it’s a great title. It’s very direct, and it’s poignant. And, again, I haven’t gotten my act together.
Victoria Volk
00:33:15 – 00:33:28
I actually have a folder that includes this is really sad. So I actually I don’t even know where I got it. I think from the Veterans Administration, my husband and I are both veterans. And I think at one time, they were given these to the veterans. I’m not even sure.
Victoria Volk
00:33:28 – 00:33:37
Maybe we ordered it. I can’t even tell you. But it’s a folder that has all the documents that you would need to prepare,
Greg Barnsdale
00:33:38 – 00:33:38
Right
Victoria Volk
00:33:38 – 00:33:47
you know in advance. Actually, I do think we probably ordered it. But have we gone through them? No. Because I think we’ve actually probably had them at least 10 years.
Greg Barnsdale
00:33:48 – 00:33:48
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:33:48 – 00:34:00
At least. And, you know, now it’s like, okay, well, we’re kind of pushing 50. Probably, you know, but you think you always have more time.
Greg Barnsdale
00:34:00 – 00:34:01
Yes.
Victoria Volk
00:34:01 – 00:34:03
I think you always have more time.
Greg Barnsdale
00:34:04 – 00:34:56
I said that phrase a number of times to people, and we got a chuckle out of it as my craniotomy, my brain surgery was approaching and I was you know trying to get making sure all of my beneficiary designations were up to date on my insurance policies and pre-arranging for my cremation to take place with a buddy of mine who runs a crematorium and all those things to make it easier for my family and I jokingly said to a few people as my surgery was getting closer and closer, you know, hoping that I would survive it. Most people do survive these craniotomies these days, but it’s still rather, concerning when you’re the one going under the knife. Right? So I wanted to make sure that my affairs were truly in order, and I was so happy that I had them all in place. You know, I had to tweak things a little bit, but I would jokingly say to people, I thought I had more time.
Victoria Volk
00:34:56 – 00:34:56
Mhmm.
Greg Barnsdale
00:34:56 – 00:35:10
And it it’s so very true. We all think that. Right? We think, as I say in the book, we’re so many people just are wanting to avoid this, and they just make the assumption everything will be fine.
Greg Barnsdale
00:35:10 – 00:35:19
I’m gonna be here tomorrow. I don’t need a will anytime soon. I don’t need the life insurance anytime soon. I’m gonna be fine. It’s we need to do this now.
Victoria Volk
00:35:20 – 00:36:13
I’ve always wondered why you know, when it comes to your health, it’s like, why does it always take like a heart attack or you know, this health scare or something to like, wake people up to actually give a damn about their bodies and the one, you know, meat suit that they’re given in this life. And then, but also to, I can say that with this, it’s like, you know, you always think you have more time. What does it take for us to get our act together and put these affairs in order and make sure that we’re making it as easy as possible for those who are left behind, regardless if we’re 40 or 70, or 80, or 90. And, you know, and people, you know, if you live that long, then people say, Oh, you they lived such a long life, or they had a long life, or they had a good life. And I imagine people said that probably you heard stuff like that with your mom.
Victoria Volk
00:36:13 – 00:36:24
And it’s like, no, she probably had another good she could have lived another 10 years. You know, who knows? Yeah, I’m sure your mom thought it too. She always you know, you think you have more time.
Greg Barnsdale
00:36:24 – 00:36:24
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:36:24 – 00:36:44
And that’s just not. I mean, if the world has not proven to us enough through COVID, and just life itself and people that we know and the majillion bajillion scenarios that can happen. What’s it gonna take for us to wake up?
Greg Barnsdale
00:36:44 – 00:38:02
Well, you’re exactly right. The last 3 years with with COVID especially has really changed the world to a large degree and a large number of people actually decided to get their affairs in order through COVID because they saw how, how delicate life is and I think had a greater appreciation for it because it was so top of mind, especially during the height of the pandemic and who could have ever predicted that But when you come through the experiences that I have working directly with the dead picking up the dead arranging for the dead and also in the role of a financial advisor as a life insurance specialist inspiring people to set up the insurance that they need to make sure that their families will be properly taken care of based on their goals and objectives and all these sorts of things that’s really why I wrote this book to be honest with you. It’s a very brief conversation starter to get people thinking about communicating and the basics of funeral and cremation and burial planning and very basic information about estate planning and then the last chapter has to do with the medical directives and all of us are at risk of being incapacitated at some point. So it’s really just it doesn’t get into a lot of detail.
Greg Barnsdale
00:38:03 – 00:38:17
It’s really just targeted towards getting Canadians and Americans thinking about these the very fundamentals of getting moving with this and leaning on other people who can help, and there’s lots of them out there.
Victoria Volk
00:38:17 – 00:38:42
What is one piece of advice that through the passing of your mother and that experience and then your own health scare, like, what is one piece of advice? Because I’m sure there was obviously some grieving, obviously, with your mother, and maybe even to with, you know, your own health scare. Is, was there any grief that came up for you during that time? I mean, even after you knew it was not cancerous.
Greg Barnsdale
00:38:42 – 00:38:53
Well, for my mom, certainly. But in regards to my situation, Victoria, I guess there was. I I don’t know. It’s hard to say. It said I’ve been in and around death for so many years.
Greg Barnsdale
00:38:53 – 00:40:02
It was a wake up call for me, but as I said, it was a huge relief knowing that I had my affairs in order and as I stress in the book a lot the people who are forced to get planning these sorts of things when there is a health diagnosis which is not overly rosy like cancer as an example I’ve seen so many people try to organize what I call and many other people call it the same thing deathbed estate planning it’s rushed it’s inappropriate it’s extremely delicate well maybe inappropriate I should take that back but when someone is in a hospital bed and they’re and they’re not doing so well, we’re always, you know, bringing flowers and writing uplifting cards to get well soon and all those sorts of positive messages. The last thing that people typically want to talk about is you know , mom did you have where’s your will? Or dad did you want to be buried or cremated? You know, we don’t have those types of conversations with people when they’re in a hospital bed or to ask them if they wanna steal or a wooden casket.
Greg Barnsdale
00:40:03 – 00:40:15
That’s taboo. Right? People don’t do that. And I totally understand why they don’t want to. But that’s why it’s so vitally important that these conversations take place when times are normal.
Greg Barnsdale
00:40:15 – 00:40:18
Time is plentiful and minds are clear.
Victoria Volk
00:40:19 – 00:40:30
Thank you so much for bringing that up. That is actually a huge takeaway that I had from the end-of-life training that I had is that instead of having those conversations, even if you know, you have to have them.
Greg Barnsdale
00:40:30 – 00:40:30
yeah
Victoria Volk
00:40:30 – 00:40:51
And so instead of talking about fond memories, or having deeper conversations with your loved one, about things that you want them to know, or that you feel in your heart you need to share. Instead, you’re having to ask what color casket do you want? Where is your will?
Victoria Volk
00:40:51 – 00:40:54
You’re taking up that time for logistics?
Greg Barnsdale
00:40:55 – 00:40:56
Yes.
Victoria Volk
00:40:56 – 00:41:00
And things that, like you said, could have should have,
Greg Barnsdale
00:41:01 – 00:41:01
yeah
Victoria Volk
00:41:01 – 00:41:23
You know, and you get into that could have could have would have situation after the fact. And that’s the tragedy, I think, to have what you call deathbed estate planning
Greg Barnsdale
00:41:18 – 00:41:18
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:41:18 – 00:41:23
is that time is spent not having the most loving, fruitful, meaningful conversations and honest conversations.
Greg Barnsdale
00:41:23 – 00:42:13
Yes, yeah. Yeah, that’s very true. And I think the best times, Victoria, to have these types of meaningful deeper conversations is when families are together you know I often think of Thanksgiving and how we it’s quite I think prevalent with a lot of people to get together at Thanksgiving and think talk to each other and so on about what they’re thankful for in their life well it wouldn’t that be a great time to maybe bring up the whole aspect of our legacy and our life and what we’re thankful for to have but what we’re thankful to leave as well and to set up our loved ones for success instead of bickering and fighting and all the turmoil that can take place if we don’t bring these these things up.
Victoria Volk
00:42:14 – 00:42:34
And that’s a great point too. It’s why not have those deeper conversations when we’re all coherent, when we’re all healthy, when we’re all together and make the most of that time. It’s it is not just about planning for your death. It’s living more intentional
Greg Barnsdale
00:42:33 – 00:42:33
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:42:33 – 00:42:34
in your life.
Greg Barnsdale
00:42:35 – 00:42:58
Yep. And that’s another part that I had realized as I was creating the manuscript, was that psychologists and various different articles within that community are so more frequently saying now than embracing our mortality, actually helps us live a more meaningful life and be in the in the present moment, and I think that is very true.
Victoria Volk
00:42:59 – 00:43:12
What has all of this taught you? All of your life experience, your grief, the industries in which you’ve worked. What has your grief in these areas taught you?
Greg Barnsdale
00:43:13 – 00:43:56
Appreciate every day you have. It can change quickly and I’m sure you know I’ve met a lot of people who have and this is kind of funny to say and I joke about it in my book I’ve met a lot of people who have died who I’m sure didn’t expect to die in that day, who probably who very who I’m sure thought that they had so much more time ahead of them, yet here they are at a funeral home or a mortuary, and now the family’s, having to deal with their death, and they, you know the deceased has no input in this. The time to have the input is when you can and that’s why I’m using the slogan now, plan while you can. And I think that that’s an appropriate phrase too.
Victoria Volk
00:43:56 – 00:44:16
Well, and for as individual, like, what have your say, I think that’s an important
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:16 – 00:44:16
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:43:16 – 00:44:19
perspective to share with people is do you wanna have a say?
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:19 – 00:44:19
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:44:19 – 00:44:24
And what happens with you when you’re if you’re hospitalized or after you die or in the process of dying and you can’t speak? And do you wanna have a say? I think a 100% of people would say a resounding yes.
Victoria Volk
00:44:25 – 00:44:26
And yet we don’t take
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:27 – 00:44:27
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:44:28 – 00:44:30
We take 0 action. We take 0 action on that.
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:30 – 00:44:30
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:44:30 – 00:44:37
Yaeh. I think that’s the mind-blowing message here for people.
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:37 – 00:44:39
It is. Yes. Yep. Yep. I agree.
Greg Barnsdale
00:44:39 – 00:45:52
And you know what, Victoria? Over the last year and a half, roughly, I’ve been reaching out to a lot of people on LinkedIn who have similar who I’m assuming have similar interests from emergency room nurses to, lawyers to doctors, other financial planners and other funeral directors and even members of the faith community too about this message that I’m promoting. And I’ve told them, you know, ever since I published this book and I’ve been talking about and trying to create something that would really inspire a lot of people, and it took me a long time to really get to the point where I realized that writing a book would be a good way to do it. But the the support that I’m getting on this is actually quite strong, and it’s inspired me to start a movement, and I’m calling it the mortality mindset movement and maybe I’ve looked online I haven’t seen anybody else promoting quite this way but I’m hoping that more people get behind it but I’m referring to the mortality mindset movement where followers uphold their living legacy by becoming the best version of themselves and ultimately leave their last legacy as the best possible, And I think you had referenced that in my bio.
Victoria Volk
00:45:54 – 00:46:09
No. And I love that. And I have one I thought of another question. And so people listening to this, they might think, oh, well, it’s gonna take a lot to you know, I gotta hire this person to help me do all this. And, yes, I wanna do this, but where do, you know, where do I start?
Victoria Volk
00:46:09 – 00:46:19
And I know you mentioned in the book, it’s kind of like just kind of like an overview of all these different topics.
Greg Barnsdale
00:46:19 – 00:46:19
Yes
Victoria Volk
00:46:19 – 00:46:24
But for someone listening, like, can is this, like, a DIY thing? Like, can I, cause you know, I got this folder, and I got all these documents? Right?
Greg Barnsdale
00:46:24 – 00:46:24
Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:46:24 – 00:46:26
And I just need to sit down and do it, and I just haven’t done it.
Victoria Volk
00:46:27 – 00:46:48
Is it something that can be a DIY thing and then you just need it notarized or you need it just something like that? Or do you do you have to, in air quotes, have to? Or is it recommended that you go with an expert, estate planning, financial planner, like all these different pieces? What do you have to share about that?
Greg Barnsdale
00:46:48 – 00:48:10
You can see me shaking my head here. Yes, you can. It can be a DIY project, Victoria for people that have a straightforward situation. Again, something that I try to clearly explain within my book to help educate people about when they should go beyond that and perhaps speak to an Estate Planning Lawyer and perhaps a financial adviser and or an accountant. But I when I wrote the book, I wanted to keep it as straightforward as possible because it’s a tough subject in itself to even talk about so everybody’s situation is different but if someone is has a fairly straight forward type of lifestyle where they do not, they’re not paying child support they’re not paying spousal support they don’t have any business ownership issues they don’t own property in another jurisdiction another state or another country so their situation is fairly straightforward it can very much it can be a DIY project but it comes down to communicating with your family and researching somebody these things online to get to know how things can be set up properly but for those situations where somebody has ownership in a business they’re paying child support and they own a cabin or a cottage in another state or province or country or whatever, they should be seeing a lawyer.
Greg Barnsdale
00:48:11 – 00:48:24
And I know a lot of people are literally to engage a lawyer because of the perceived cost, But avoiding that can actually result in a higher cost after the death than if the person had have engaged lawyer in the first place.
Victoria Volk
00:48:25 – 00:49:00
As you explained and illustrated in that one story you shared where it cost him $50,000 you know, in 7 years of his life. And I imagined in that 7 years, it was a lot of stress and lost time at work and lost productivity and his life lost vacations or whatever. What is the, you know, it’s not just the financial cost, it’s the emotional cost of, you know, your physical self cost and everything else that probably went into that too. So thank you for making that distinction. And sharing that.
Victoria Volk
00:49:00 – 00:49:05
Is there anything else that you would like to share that you think is important that you didn’t get to share?
Greg Barnsdale
00:49:06 – 00:49:41
Boy, it’s, I think we’ve covered pretty well the bulk of what I’d like to say here, Victoria. But other than stressing the fact that anybody listening to this should really try to lean into this. I know it’s not easy, but you can also leverage opportunities when someone else, a friend or a family member happens to be sick or if someone’s been hospitalized or someone that , you know, they bring it up that someone, a friend or something has passed away. That’s a good time to bring up your situation and say well, you know, did you know that I have a will? Or do you know where I keep my will?
Greg Barnsdale
00:49:41 – 00:49:51
You know, if something happened to me, and then just get talking about these things with those that you love and care about so that they’re aware of what you’re thinking.
Victoria Volk
00:49:51 – 00:50:27
Every time someone who my family knows passes away, I asks a specific person where her and her husband would want to be buried if they have talked about that, if they had planned that yet, because, you know, religious affiliations change over time. People, you know, may not go to the same church or they might and this is kind of the situation. And then family is actually buried, you know, out of state and they’re somewhere else. And, you know, they might be out of state or somewhere else. And so every time this happens, I ask, have you talked about this?
Victoria Volk
00:50:27 – 00:50:39
Do you know what you’d want to do? Because I know, especially, you know, like their kids would be just overwhelmed with that whole thing. I just I know they would. And every time the answer is no. Don’t know.
Victoria Volk
00:50:39 – 00:50:46
Not sure. And, you know, so it’s like one of those things where it’s like arrggh, but then at the same time
Greg Barnsdale
00:50:46 – 00:50:47
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:50:47 – 00:51:04
I haven’t gotten my crap together either. So it’s like calling the kettle black, So I don’t push it too too hard. But, again, it’s just one of those things. Like, I like you said, that’s a great opportunity to bring it up and maybe just share what you would want. Maybe share what, you know, what you want to happen with you.
Victoria Volk
00:51:04 – 00:51:35
And, you know, for me personally, like, give my organs away. Like, I don’t need them. Like, what good are they to me? And I would rather them, you know, that’s the legacy that I would love to be able to give is life to somebody else like, wow, like, how many people you know, that’s an opportunity that I see it as an opportunity. And, you know, someone in my life is like, adamant that that’s, that’s no, but, you know, I made sure my husband, and it’s on my license, I’m a donor.
Victoria Volk
00:51:36 – 00:51:53
So, you know, it’s just that’s a small action people can take too. It’s you know, if you wanna donate your organs, put that on your driver’s license. You’re stating that that’s your wishes. And, I mean, that’s at least one small piece you can do right now, today. Change it on your driver’s license.
Greg Barnsdale
00:51:53 – 00:51:53
Yes.
Victoria Volk
00:51:53 – 00:51:54
That’s what you want.
Greg Barnsdale
00:51:54 – 00:53:07
And I think a lot of people, Victoria, don’t realize how needed organ donation really is and tissue and organs can actually be donated regardless of one’s age but the other point that I wanted to bring up that you had mentioned a few minutes ago was the fact about funerals and people being buried out of state. Here in Canada we’ve seen this trend for a number of years and I’m quite sure it’s also a prevalent trend in the US as well. Is that a growing number of people don’t see the value in a traditional funeral anymore and they’re opting for other types of ceremonies to take place which are much more casual perhaps in a legion or at a hall or something instead of a traditional 2 days of visitation in a church or a funeral home and then a funeral procession to a cemetery that just isn’t happening as much anymore we seldom see a funeral hearse on the road anymore here in Canada and I’m sure it’s the case there where you are too but if people don’t want to have a funeral it’s important that your family knows that.
Greg Barnsdale
00:53:08 – 00:53:30
If you want to be cremated or if you want to have your organs donated or any of those sorts of things unless those conversations are meaningfully had it’s going to cause stress at the time of the death and it’s so easy to resolve that just by being I guess, a little more courageous and having the conversations while the opportunity exists.
Victoria Volk
00:53:30 – 00:53:39
What are the topics that generally people avoid like the plague? Politics, religion, death. Right?
Greg Barnsdale
00:53:39 – 00:53:39
Yes.
Victoria Volk
00:53:39 – 00:54:07
And so you’re not telling people if you don’t want a funeral. You’re probably not telling people, oh, I’m not this religion anymore. I’m not this faith, or I’ve completely gone away from going to church. And this I’m choosing this other path, which is happening a lot more to a lot more people are leaving the church itself, regardless of what religious affiliation it is. And so that does change how you want to probably be buried and what kind of ceremony you’re wanting to have.
Victoria Volk
00:54:07 – 00:54:10
And again, you wanna have your say.
Greg Barnsdale
00:54:11 – 00:54:11
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:54:11 – 00:54:22
You can’t have it after you’re dead, so you might wanna have those conversations as soon as possible because as we’ve talked about on this podcast, you don’t know how much time you have.
Greg Barnsdale
00:54:22 – 00:54:23
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:54:23 – 00:54:54
You think you have more time, but that’s not necessarily the case. And now that we’ve depressed everybody with that sobering thought, which I hope just prompts people to action. That’s really what this you know, why I wanted to have you on is to share your story and also to, you know, maybe light a fire under all of our butts to get our act together. And so thank you so much for sharing, your wisdom and your knowledge with us today. And where can people find your book?
Greg Barnsdale
00:54:55 – 00:55:16
The easiest place to find my book is through my website donotignoreyourmortality.com and on all the pages are reminders as to where people can buy it. But it’s available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. It’s available in physical paperback form, audiobook and ebook and in all the major retailers.
Victoria Volk
00:55:18 – 00:55:25
Amazing. And thank you again for being here. Is there anything else you would like to share? Where can people where are you on social? Are you on social media at all?
Greg Barnsdale
00:55:25 – 00:56:37
Yes. Yes. I am that actually this was another quick interesting point that I’ll briefly mention to you 2 days before my brain surgery my stepdaughter says to me Greg we should take that video that you recorded just after you told mom you had a brain tumor the Celine Dion moment I went out to the truck we were gonna go to the mall to pick up whatever to kind of clear our minds after I told her I had a brain tumor and both of us assumed it was terminal because it was Monday morning, remember, that she was going to come with me to see this ear nose and throat specialist where he said don’t worry about it, Greg, it’s likely an acoustic neuroma and it’s non-cancerous. So that relieved us immensely. But on that Saturday morning about, I don’t know, half an hour or an hour after I told her I thought sitting in the truck waiting for her to come out I would do a little recording on my iPhone not knowing if I would ever share it so I just explained I just told my wife that I had a brain tumor and if it’s cancerous I’ve got some very serious decisions to make and that’s really all I said it was very brief so that’s what my stepdaughter wanted to put on TikTok and we did and it blew up It’s now been viewed over 1,700,000 times.
Victoria Volk
00:56:37 – 00:57:00
Wow. I don’t have TikTok, but my daughter does, and she’s always showing me different things on there. But, yeah, I mean and that’s a great way to get your this message out. I mean, if people are listening to that, I imagine they’re wanna follow-up and hear how your story played out. And did that give you some traction in sharing this message?
Greg Barnsdale
00:57:00 – 00:57:38
Well, it did. It didn’t result in a lot of, book sales, but it resulted in a lot of a fair amount of attention. And I’ve added some other videos that that a whole supplement, this whole message of mine and I’m on all the other major platforms as well but on TikTok my handle or name is author mortality and anybody will see Greg Barnsdale on there in the various videos but yes I’m on LinkedIn I’m on YouTube and Facebook etcetera and if so if anybody does a search for do not ignore your mortality and my name Greg Barnsdale that they’ll see me.
Victoria Volk
00:57:39 – 00:57:42
And I will put the links in the show notes for people to get to connect with you as well.
Greg Barnsdale
00:57:42 – 00:57:42
Thank you.
Victoria Volk
00:57:42 – 00:58:08
And thank you so much for your time today and sharing. I enjoyed this conversation and I, the one action I will do today, I will do this today, I will take out my folder with all of my documents, which is in the safe, and I will take it out as a reminder to myself to get crack a lacking.
Greg Barnsdale
00:58:09 – 00:58:10
Good. Good for you.
Victoria Volk
00:58:10 – 00:58:13
Thank you for lighting the fire under my butt today.
Greg Barnsdale
00:58:14 – 00:58:16
You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.
Victoria Volk
00:58:16 – 00:58:21
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Educational, Grieving Voices Guest, Life with Human Design, Parenting, Pespective |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Are you ready to embark on a journey that could transform your understanding of purpose, parenting, and personal healing?
This week on Grieving Voices, I welcomed Alexandra Cole, a former corporate consultant turned human design coach. After a decade in the Fortune 500 sector, Alexandra pivoted to guiding individuals and families in finding their purpose through human design—a system that combines astrology, I Ching, Kabbalah, and the chakras.
Born in London and raised in Amsterdam with an education from Princeton University, she now resides in Santa Barbara with her husband and young son. Her journey into motherhood inspired “Thriving by Design,” a toolkit designed for parents to understand their child’s unique traits.
Alexandra shares her personal story of loss—losing her mother at age ten—and how it shaped her emotional world. She explains how understanding one’s own human design can be instrumental during grief and aiding parents to align better with their children’s innate designs.
She discusses the five energy types within human design: Manifestors (initiators), Projectors (guides), Generators, & Manifesting Generators (consistent workers who need joy-based work). Each type has different ways of investing energy for fulfillment and purpose. The conversation also delves into parenting aligned with your child’s energy type—such important information and particularly helpful when parenting grieving children.
This insightful discussion highlights how embracing our inherent nature according to our human design can lead us toward more authentic and aligned lives.
If you’re curious about how your unique blueprint can shape your way forward—in joyous times or challenging ones—I encourage you to learn your human design and listen to this episode because sometimes the most authentic path is the one that is tailor-made just for us.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
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NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Unlocking the Power of Human Design in Grieving, Parenting, and Self-Discovery
In today’s fast-paced world, where change is constant and life often throws us curveballs, understanding ourselves and our loved ones can sometimes feel like deciphering an enigmatic puzzle. But what if there was a blueprint—a design—that could help us navigate these complexities with greater ease? Enter Human Design, a revolutionary system that combines ancient wisdom with modern science to offer profound insights into our personalities.
Recently on Grieving Voices, we had the pleasure of hosting Alexandra Cole—once a corporate consultant for Fortune 500 companies who has now found her calling as a human design coach. With her international background and diverse experiences shaping her approach to coaching, she shared how human design has become an invaluable tool for personal growth during grief, enhancing parenting techniques, and managing life’s myriad challenges.
The Transformation Journey: From Corporate Consulting to Human Design
Alexandra’s journey from advising corporations to coaching individuals speaks volumes about the transformative power of purpose. Her work through “Thriving by Design” demonstrates how aligning one’s career with their inner calling can lead not only to personal fulfillment but also make significant impacts on others’ lives.
Understanding Ourselves Through Grief
Grief is unique to every individual; it shapes itself around each person’s energy type. Alexandra emphasizes that knowing your human design can reveal personalized paths for healing when you’re navigating loss or adversity. For example:
– **Manifestors** may need solitude to initiate their own grieving process.
– **Projectors** might seek deep understanding before they can find closure.
– **Generators** require activities that reignite their spark amidst sorrow.
– **Manifesting Generators**, much like generators but with added complexity due to their multifaceted nature.
– Lastly,** Reflectors**, whose sensitivity means they deeply mirror those around them—and thus may absorb collective grief which needs careful navigation.
By recognizing these patterns within ourselves based on our energy types in times of mourning or crisis—we allow space for compassion towards self-healing journeys tailored just right for us.
Parental Guidance Enhanced by Human Design
Parenting is arguably one of life’s most challenging yet rewarding roles—and here too human design offers remarkable guidance. By acknowledging each child’s unique energy type (be it Manifestor or Reflector), parents are better equipped at fostering environments where children thrive authentically rather than conforming them into ill-fitting societal molds.
For instance:
– Encourage your child when you see them light up doing something they love—this physical response signals alignment with their true nature.
– Recognize that while Generators have abundant energy reserves—they must be wary not becoming ‘yes people’, overcommitting themselves away from joyous pursuits
– Understand Reflectors’ need for supportive surroundings given their heightened sensitivities reflecting back the health—or dis-ease—of communities around them
This knowledge doesn’t just cultivate healthier relationships between parent-child dynamics; it paves the way toward nurturing well-rounded individuals grounded in self-awareness from early stages onward.
Better Relationships Through Energetic Understanding
Human design isn’t limited solely to introspection—it extends outwardly enrichening relational dynamics too! Partnerships benefit immensely when both parties respect differing energetic requirements (imagine respecting your partner’s need for dynamic mornings versus quiet evenings). This framework fosters deeper empathy & effective communication leading towards harmonious co-existence amid diversity in temperaments & preferences alike!
Resources at Your Fingertips
Alexandra provides multiple avenues through which anyone interested can delve further into this transformative field:
1) Personal sessions via alexandracole.com
2) Wellness products including customized reports at thrivingbydesign.com
3) Her book “The Purpose Playbook”, guides readers towards living out authentic purposes
These resources serve as tools aiding one along paths whether seeking solace during grief-stricken times or simply aspiring towards more aligned living overall – all underscored by honoring inherent uniqueness above external expectations thrust upon us!
As we wrapped up our conversation filled with gratitude & enlightenment —it became clear why nurturing individuality holds paramount importance across facets ranging from parenting strategies down even unto embracing personal narratives woven uniquely within tapestries called ‘life’.
To live authentically—isn’t just sound advice—it’s foundational ethos empowering thriving existences no matter what storms come ashore!
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:27
Thank you so much for tuning in to grieving voices. I’m very excited to, bring a guest. We haven’t had a guest in a little while here on the podcast. And today, Alexandra Cole is joining me. She is a former corporate consultant turned human design coach after a decade of helping fortune 500 identify and articulate their why she pivoted to help individuals, families, and couples do the same.
Victoria Volk
00:00:27 – 00:01:18
She uses human design as a tool to help her clients pursue their purpose with more clarity and confidence. Alexander is passionate about translating insights from her clients, human design charts into actionable strategies for optimizing their relationships, well-being, careers, finances, and family life. She was born in London, raised in Amsterdam, educated at Princeton University, and now lives in Santa Barbara, California with her husband and 2 year old son. Becoming a mother inspired her to create thriving by design, a collection of tools, cheat sheets, and online courses designed to give parents insight into their child’s unique sensitivities, preferences, and gifts, as well as tactical tips for how to support them. Alexandra is happiest when moving her body, eating good food, exploring new places, and in deep conversation with new or old friends.
Victoria Volk
00:01:19 – 00:01:35
I love that. I love deep conversation too. And I love human design, and I honestly can’t even remember how I got into your sphere, but I did. And you share the same name as my middle Alexandra. I love the name.
Victoria Volk
00:01:35 – 00:01:53
Beautiful name. But there was something I found interesting when I was looking into, I don’t know, I opened an email, then you you know, you get down a rabbit hole. And then I found your wellness. The wellness design report or well by well by design report. And that’s how we kind of connected.
Victoria Volk
00:01:53 – 00:02:30
And I’m just thinking, like, gosh, this would be a really good topic for to bring on the podcast for people, especially particularly grievers who, you know, sometimes you just don’t know what you need. And this well by design report can be a good place to start. Like, if I just wanna feel better, how can I feel better that is aligned with who I am and how I was created and how I was made? Right? And, and I absolutely love also the idea of arming parents with information and knowledge to help them be let’s see.
Victoria Volk
00:02:30 – 00:02:37
What’s the word I wanna use? A more aligned parent for their child.
Alexandra Cole
00:02:32 – 00:02:32
Yeah. 100%
Victoria Volk
00:02:33 – 00:02:37
Based on their child’s design. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:02:37 – 00:02:37
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:02:38 – 00:03:00
Because if youngest is 15, if I would have known what I know now about human design, about my own design, about my kids, All 3 of them are manifesting generators. I’m a manifester. Like, I was exhausted. Like, motherhood, like, totally exhausted me to the point where, like, you can question, like, oh my god.
Victoria Volk
00:03:00 – 00:03:02
What did I sign up for?
Alexandra Cole
00:03:03 – 00:03:12
I can only imagine. I have one little manifesting generator, and that’s already a lot. I can’t imagine having 3 of them running around.
Victoria Volk
00:03:12 – 00:03:16
And they’re all, like, the first 2 or 18 months apart and the yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:03:16 – 00:03:16
Wow.
Victoria Volk
00:03:16 – 00:03:20
Yeah. I had 3 under in 5 under 5 years. So
Alexandra Cole
00:03:20 – 00:04:21
That’s impressive. Especially as a manifester, that is incredibly impressive. And, I mean, I would also say too, from a grief perspective, I think both of us lost a parent very young in life. And if I had understood my design better or if, God forbid, anything like that ever happens in my immediate family, having human design as a tool to just better understand a child’s emotional world and how they’re designed to navigate these types of major traumas and just life changing events, especially when it comes to kind of your environment and how that shifts. It allows you to show up in a much more kind of supportive way for that child because you know exactly kind of what their patterning is and how to, yes, align with that and support that in how you are tending to them and caring for them.
Victoria Volk
00:04:21 – 00:04:39
I really wanna get to your story in how you got to where you are in with human design and how this all came to be. And so would you please take us back in time and to that loss and how like, what transpired in the in between?
Alexandra Cole
00:04:40 – 00:05:22
Oh, man. That loss was early on and probably well before, obviously, human design even was at all in my kind of frame of reference, but I lost my mom to breast cancer at age 10. I’m the oldest of 3 kids, and at the time, we were living in the Netherlands. And my dad did an incredible job of kind of stepping in and trying to play Mom and Dad, we were surrounded by an incredible support system. So all things considered, I look back and can only feel grateful in a way for having experienced it in the way that I did.
Alexandra Cole
00:05:22 – 00:06:25
But nonetheless, right, at 10 years old, experiencing such a huge loss, especially as the eldest child, I think, forced me to grow up very very quickly and forced me to kind of grapple with some of these, like, bigger life questions, a lot earlier on than the average 10 year old, let’s say. So I think I was quite a mature teenager in terms of my life experience, but also kind of, like, my way of connecting and understanding others. And especially when it came to my emotional world, I was very aware of all the emotions I was feeling. I just didn’t necessarily feel like it was appropriate for me to express those anymore because I wanted to be strong for my family. So for a good 8 years, I shut down my own kind of emotional response and probably a huge part of that grieving process.
Alexandra Cole
00:06:26 – 00:07:01
Until fast forward at 18, I moved from the Netherlands to the United States, and my mom had actually studied in the United States. So it was kind of a little bit of, like, following in her footsteps. And I get here, and within the 1st year, I fall madly in love with this American man. And it was the first time since losing my mom that I had this huge fear of losing this individual and the impact that that might have. And it kind of actually opened the door for me to experience grief because I was, 1, I think, far enough removed from my family where I felt like I could do that.
Alexandra Cole
00:07:01 – 00:07:55
And 2, I had this trigger of someone I cared so deeply about, and the thought of losing him was, like, such a kind of miserable like, the the pain was, like, so great associated with that that I allowed myself to finally grieve, and I think I cried. Like, basically, I made up for those 8 years of not shedding a tear. And this poor man, who I’m now married to, so I can I can say this? Like, he was incredible, but he probably didn’t understand everything that I was kind of processing and going through at the moment itself. Anyway, fast forward a few years, I graduated college and picked the path of least resistance in the sense that I very much went down the road that I felt like everyone expected me to and that I felt pressured to in a way, which was a very kind of corporate path in management consulting.
Alexandra Cole
00:07:56 – 00:08:29
And I kinda had most of my life planned out. I was a very kind of a logical, rational thinker when it came to kind of where I thought I was heading. And maybe that was also part of all of those years of kind of shutting down that emotional world even though my emotions, especially according to human design, are my most trustworthy inner compass. I just wasn’t listening to them. A few years into that career, a friend of mine asked me to help her brainstorm a new business idea that she had.
Alexandra Cole
00:08:30 – 00:09:09
And I would meet with her before work. I would meet with her after work, and I was doing 12 to 16 hour days. So this was like a commitment to meet with her, but I became so passionate about what it was that she was working on to the point that she eventually asked me to leave my job and cofound this company with her. And I think I thought about it for maybe a few days and felt this full body just yes in response to it. It was a complete conviction that this was what I was meant to do, and it came from this place of genuine excitement and passion.
Alexandra Cole
00:09:10 – 00:09:28
And it was such a departure from how I had lived my life before, which was very much kind of like, mind oriented that the fact and I did. I ended up leaving my job, starting this company with her, and we had no clients. We had no track record. We had no funding. We had no experience.
Alexandra Cole
00:09:28 – 00:10:07
Nothing. We made it all work, but it was a few months after that that I reflected on this this leap and how I was able to make it with so much confidence and conviction when really there was, you know, no logical reason to do so. And it set me on this path of self development, trying to better understand what that was inside of me and why I finally allowed that to make the decision instead of the kind of rational brain. And that’s what ultimately led me to discover human design, which told me, like, hey. Listen.
Alexandra Cole
00:10:07 – 00:10:52
You’re actually here to listen to your gut, to listen to your emotions. And the more I started leaning into that, the more myself I felt. Like, I had I realized that for those past, like, 10, 12 years, I had been kind of a you know, trying again to live up to this expectation that I thought other people had of me, of who I needed to be for them in that moment, and had lost the essence of who I was along the way. And so that’s really what human design allowed me to do. And after several years of just kind of using it to heal myself and to allow myself to grieve in many ways, I started using it with other people, friends and family at first.
Alexandra Cole
00:10:52 – 00:11:14
And over the course of a few years, it kind of blossomed into this side hustle and then something more than a side hustle. And now here I am working with clients every day, helping them better understand, you know, the most aligned use of their energy and how to become a more authentic version of themselves.
Victoria Volk
00:11:15 – 00:11:56
I’m curious too for you. I’m sure I already know the answer. But what if what human design has helped me to is to better understand the environment in which I lived with the people that I shared it with. Right? So for instance, especially a parent, you know, if you don’t have their exact details, you know, birthplace and things like that, it can be a little difficult, but what did that give you when you, when you started to learn more about human design and, and for being so young and losing your mother, did it help you to really get to know her in a way that you couldn’t because she’d passed, you know, through her human design?
Alexandra Cole
00:11:57 – 00:12:06
Such a good question. Yes. It did really help me with that. And, also, it helped me see certain parts of myself that I share with her. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:12:06 – 00:12:47
And also understand why certain aspects of her are so memorable to me and other parts, you know, you it’s it’s hard for you to understand unless someone else kinda tells a story and you’re like, like, oh, right. I guess she was like that too. One thing that human design really helped me understand, though, is the fact that so my dad is also an emotional. He’s an emotional manifesting generator, and my brother and sister are non emotionals. And so for people who aren’t familiar with human design, what this means is that both my dad and I experience the world first and foremost through our own emotional lens.
Alexandra Cole
00:12:47 – 00:13:34
Like, we have this inherent emotional bias about how we are experiencing everything around us. And we feel our own emotions first and foremost, and they’re very much supposed to inform how we operate. My brother and sister, they feel other people’s emotions first and foremost. So their kind of experience of the world is more shaped by other people’s emotions, and they sometimes have a harder time distinguishing where they end and where someone else begins. And I think with if you think about our kind of family unit, obviously, my dad is going through an insurmountable amount of grief and was making a concerted effort to actually share that grief with us.
Alexandra Cole
00:13:34 – 00:13:43
Right? He took the approach of, I wanna be open with my kids. I wanna talk about how sad I am. Right? And so he did that.
Alexandra Cole
00:13:44 – 00:14:09
But because both my brother and sister are open emotions, they were incredibly sensitive to that. So they picked up on everything and then started kind of absorbing it and carrying that weight. And I think as a 10 year old, I intuitively saw that and decided, you know, there’s not there’s no space for another emotional in this family. Right? Like, I can’t do that same thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:14:09 – 00:15:00
So I’m just gonna kind of, like, shut mine down so that my dad can have that space and we can kind of all absorb or at least maybe even with my siblings. Like, I’m gonna try and shield them from my dad’s emotions, right, instead of add to that kind of, like, fire hose effect. Like, recognizing that and the role that made forced me to play has been really helpful, not just in kind of making sense of kind of my journey, but also making sense in my relationship with my dad and why certain things that he does trigger me so much. Right? And so I think those that, especially in these past kind of 5 years in becoming a mom, I’ve reflected on this a lot, and human design has definitely been, invaluable in that process.
Victoria Volk
00:15:02 – 00:15:05
And how has that shaped how you parent your son?
Alexandra Cole
00:15:05 – 00:15:37
So my son is also an emotional, and my husband is a nonemotional. So I think just knowing what I know about human design, the biggest takeaway here is that kids, a lot of it is nature. Right? They come into this world with a certain set of patterns and behaviors and sensitivities. And as parents, there’s this tendency to want to kind of manage and control that.
Alexandra Cole
00:15:37 – 00:15:55
And we think that’s that we’re protecting them in a way. Right? We think we’re we’re setting them up for success. But, really, what I’ve learned is that the best thing you can do as a parent is kind of do less. Like, step back and allow them to kind of grow into that little human they’re designed to be.
Alexandra Cole
00:15:55 – 00:16:40
And having their human design chart makes that much easier because you can kind of see, oh, wait. Actually, they’re living their design because especially when who they’re designed to be might be different from you or opposite from you in terms of how their emotions work or how they’re designed to communicate or make decisions. We only know what we know and we look at the world again through that kind of, like, biased lens. And so when you’re raising a child, it’s really hard to let go of that, and human design has allowed me to do that. So, for example, when my son has an emotional reaction to something, and he’s a very emotional child because his first reaction is always gonna be this, like, big emotional outburst.
Alexandra Cole
00:16:40 – 00:16:48
My husband’s response to that typically is, you’re okay. You’re okay. You’re okay. There’s no need cry. No tears.
Alexandra Cole
00:16:48 – 00:17:10
No tears. Right? Like, that’s just because he is not emotional, so he doesn’t understand the significance of allowing yourself to kind of feel those feelings. I, on the other hand, and now I’ve also, you know, not trained, but coached my husband to respond in a similar way, I will just give my son a big hug and say, let it out. Let’s ride this emotional wave together.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:10 – 00:17:34
Right? Like, tell me what you’re feeling. Tell me what happened. Right? And I don’t ever try to shut that down because I know that this if I start to kind of manipulate his emotional experience, he is gonna lose it’s like losing a limb, right, for him because it’s such an important way of how he is designed to make sense of the world.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:35 – 00:17:50
And if he doesn’t feel like he can trust it or he feels like it’s wrong to respond emotionally, he’s gonna do what I did for 8 years and pay the price. So that’s just one small example of how I’m using this as a parent.
Victoria Volk
00:17:50 – 00:17:57
And when it comes to grief, that is a massively important example. Massively.
Alexandra Cole
00:17:57 – 00:17:57
Yes. Yeah
Victoria Volk
00:17:58 – 00:18:15
And if you if your child is a manifester, good luck to you. Oh. I know. You know, I’ve learned, like, I was probably just an some sort of enigma to my mother. Like but you know what?
Victoria Volk
00:18:15 – 00:18:23
I learned that my mother was is a projector, which I was like, woah. That makes sense.
Alexandra Cole
00:18:24 – 00:18:47
Yeah. That makes so much sense. And that’s one of the things that I love about human design is it does give it allows you to see other people in a much more objective way, where you can start to understand, oh, this is why I must have been so challenging for my mom. Right? And it is just it doesn’t excuse any behavior.
Alexandra Cole
00:18:47 – 00:19:25
It just gives you a different lens through which to kind of witness and observe and see the things that happened, because, yeah, as a manifester, right, part of what you’re here to do is to trigger people, like, in a way. Right? Like, you are here to challenge people. And sometimes that can feel really uncomfortable. And if as a parent, you’re not cut out for that or you don’t know how to handle that and you’re not aware of where that’s coming from, it can be really challenging.
Alexandra Cole
00:19:25 – 00:19:41
And she would just have wanted to kind of shut your manifesting tendencies down. Right? Or in an effort to protect you, she’s like, you can’t be this big. I need to, like, I need to limit this person. I need to kind of, like, you know, encourage them to control it.
Alexandra Cole
00:19:42 – 00:19:52
Exactly. Exactly. When, really, what a manifester kid needs to be able to do is, like, do their thing. And with complete freedom, throw a tantrum. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:19:52 – 00:20:12
Like, let it out, get angry, and move on. But if you tell them, like, you can’t do that, that’s not appropriate, That manifestor is gonna grow up to be a shell of who they actually could be. Because, again, they don’t trust any of those, like, inner voices that are communicating to them constantly or trying to.
Victoria Volk
00:20:13 – 00:20:27
Amen to that. I can tell you wholeheartedly. Because I first discovered human design, like, a little over a year ago.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:20 – 00:20:20
Wow!
Victoria Volk
00:20:20 – 00:20:26
So it has been like yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:27 – 00:20:27
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:20:27 – 00:20:53
Mind blowing. So since we’re on this topic, can you quickly run down do a rundown of, like, the child You describe the child manifestor because that’s what I am. But can you quickly just kinda describe the other types, energy types.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:40 – 00:20:40
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:20:40 – 00:20:53
Children, for people who are listening, who may feel like there’s I I think this can help with conflict within parent child dynamics. So I think it’s I’m glad the conversation went here.
Victoria Volk
00:20:53 – 00:20:53
So.
Alexandra Cole
00:20:54 – 00:21:20
Absolutely. And as I describe it too, this also applies to adults, and to inner children. Like, a lot of the time when I talk about when I, you know, share content through that parenting lens, I get responses from people that say, you know, this helped me so much to heal my inner child Mhmm. And trauma that I experienced as a kid, just understanding what that, like, little version of me must have been experiencing in that moment. So there’s 5 energy types.
Alexandra Cole
00:21:20 – 00:22:13
And just kind of at a very high level, this whole system, human design, essentially, it’s based on your birth time date and place and the energetic frequency that was present in the exact moment you took your first breath. And you wanna imagine it’s like you were imprinted with this energetic frequency. And the chart itself is like that, like, blueprint to how your energy is designed to operate in the most authentic and the most effortless way. Right? Like, when you are listening to that blueprint and operating in alignment with it, there’s this element of flow to life where you’re still gonna encounter challenging situations, but you’ll move through them with a sense of confidence and conviction and trust in your own kind of inner authority to be able to overcome those things.
Alexandra Cole
00:22:14 – 00:23:12
So the foundation of this system is something that we call an energy type, and I often describe it as, like, the outer layer of the onion where there are so many more nuanced layers to the system that get into an incredible amount of detail in terms of, you know, how you’re designed to eat, the types of environments that are most supportive for you, how you’re designed to communicate and emote and all those things. But the first piece to understand is your energy type. There’s 5 different energy types, and each type has a slightly different way of investing energy in order to get the greatest return on that investment in terms of fulfillment and purpose and reward. So we talked about the manifestor and the manifestor little kid. Manifestors, their energy is designed to be quite extreme in terms of highs and lows.
Alexandra Cole
00:23:12 – 00:23:55
Like, they’ll have these, like, huge creative emotional bursts where literally they can go for days on this, like, energetic high, and then it’ll come crashing down and they will need to rest, reset, recharge. But, ultimately, that’s because manifestor’s role in this world is to initiate, to create things, to challenge that status quo and initiate newness and novelty. And so you need a lot of, like, powerful energy to do that, and you also need to not give a damn about everyone else around you. And that’s that triggering piece that I was talking about. And that’s why when you meet a little manifestor kid, they’re just off doing their thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:23:55 – 00:24:04
Right? Like, they get this urge. They need to, you know, dig a hole in the garden. And they just grab the shovel, and they just start digging. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:24:04 – 00:24:27
They’re not here to ask for permission. They’re not here to look for validation. They’re just here to follow those urges and convictions. And as a parent, again, that can be really triggering because we’re told we have to control our kids, and our kids’ behavior is a reflection on us. And so when that kid just grabs that shovel without asking and starts digging, your immediate reaction is, hey.
Alexandra Cole
00:24:27 – 00:24:54
You didn’t you didn’t ask me. We can’t just do that. Right? And so you can imagine how that leads to a lot of pressure and conditioning for that child to not be themselves and to adapt and adjust. And suddenly, these manifestors start to ask for permission and look for validation, which prevents them from starting the magical movements and things that they are supposed to.
Alexandra Cole
00:24:54 – 00:25:37
So that’s the manifestor kit. Then the second kind of, group I’d like to talk about are projectors. So projectors make up about 20% of the population, and projectors are very much the kind of guides. So if manifestors are here to kind of initiate and be the spark, Projectors are here to refine and guide and optimize. And so projectors actually have a much more moderate ebb and flow of energy, and they are really most effective when they can focus on one thing at a time and dedicate themselves to something for a short intense burst of time, and then they too need to kind of rest and reset.
Alexandra Cole
00:25:37 – 00:26:15
So projector kids are the types of kids that, one, are gonna be fascinated by how things work and kind of optimizing or understanding how to, kind of improve or better something. Like, they love fixing and solving things. And they’re gonna be able to kind of sit quietly working on a puzzle or with some type of toy for that, like, kind of short intense burst of time. And then they’re going to need to kind of rest their mind and sit back and almost observe. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:26:15 – 00:26:50
There’s a there’s a lot of power for a projector in just being free to observe instead of there being pressure to actually create or output. Projectors sometimes, though, because they have that ability to see how something can be done better, they can come across as quite critical. And if they tend to kind of share their insights and observations without being invited to do so, it can come across as a little bit of a, like, know it all. Right? Or, again, overly, like, a glass half-empty kind of thing.
Alexandra Cole
00:26:50 – 00:27:44
And so for projectors, the name of the game is really learning to wait for that invitation, to wait to be recognized, to wait to be acknowledged, to wait for someone to kind of celebrate your ability to problem solve or your natural gifts that all projectors have and kind of invite you to share those. So if you have a projector child, really being mindful that, like, all they want is for you to see them clearly and for you to invite them to share their gifts. They’re not here to go and initiate in the same way that manifestors are. They’re really here to be a little bit more passive until you invite them in. And they also are gonna need a lot of alone time, and they are going to do best when they have your 1 on 1 attention as opposed to, you know, bigger groups of people, which can be quite overwhelming for that projector initially.
Alexandra Cole
00:27:44 – 00:28:34
Now we get to the largest cohort of people, and that is the generators and the manifesting generators. So these two groups together make up about 70% of the population, and that’s because this group’s energy is very consistent. These generators and manifesting generators are here to almost act as, like, the motors of society in the sense that they have this ability to apply themselves in a very consistent, persistent way to things. And they don’t have that ebb and flow as much as the manifestors and the projectors do. Now for generators and manifesting generators, it’s really important that they are applying that energy to think that excitement excite them and bring them joy.
Alexandra Cole
00:28:34 – 00:29:01
So for them, it’s a really kind of physical response that they will feel towards something. Even, you know, if you have a generator, a manifesting generator child, pay attention to what their body does when they are loving what they’re doing. Right? Whether it’s they’re eating their favorite food and you hear them just go, like, mmm, they, like, start making noises. Or my son, when he’s doing something that he really enjoys, he starts to rock back and forth.
Alexandra Cole
00:29:01 – 00:29:28
Right? Or he does this, like, happy dance. It’s a very physical response. And so as a parent, pay attention to where what gives your kids that physical response because that’s a clear telltale sign that they’re meant to do more of it, that it’s a great use of their time and energy. When generators and manifesting generators are forced to do things that don’t really excite them or light them up, it’ll be quite draining.
Alexandra Cole
00:29:28 – 00:30:35
But because they have that consistent source of energy, they don’t necessarily hit that point of burnout like a manifestor or a projector will. And so what’s really hard is that most adult generators and manifesting generators have been conditioned to basically be these martyrs that say yes to every request, do a lot of stuff for other people because it makes that other person happy, and they happen to have the energetic capacity to do so. But they’ve lost touch with what actually brings them joy and what excites them. And so they’re operating at, you know, 50 to 60% of their full potential, and that full potential can only be accessed when they prioritize their own joy and excitement. And so as a parent of a young generator and manifesting generator, helping them recognize that, helping them realize that, like, they don’t have to say yes to doing what other people want them to do, and it is completely valid to prioritize their own needs and what brings them joy, even over yours as the parent.
Alexandra Cole
00:30:35 – 00:31:11
Right? Like, that’s a really important lesson for them to learn. The slight difference between these two types is that whereas generators can be a little bit more focused in their application of energy, manifesting generators are nonlinear beings, and that they have a little bit of that manifestor erratic nature while they will move very quickly from one interest to the other, and they love a variety of things. And they’re like I mean, with my son, for example, I’ve learned to never clean up after him because I think he’s done. And I then, as the generator mom, I’m like, okay.
Alexandra Cole
00:31:11 – 00:31:34
I’m gonna start to organize and clean this up. But, actually, he wants to circle back to it an hour from now after he’s, like, pulled out another 5 other toys. Right? And when we’re on an airplane, I have to have, like, you know, 20 different activities versus if I had a projector child, maybe I just need 3 and he could play with each for an hour. My son needs to just, like, constantly cycle through things.
Alexandra Cole
00:31:35 – 00:32:16
So that’s the generator manifesting generator, and then the very last type is a reflector. And reflectors are just as the name suggests. They’re like these magical unicorn snowflake kids that are highly sensitive and really designed to reflect the health and well-being of whatever community that they are a part of. So they are the product of their environment in many ways, And a reflector is like a mirror. So, if you have a reflector in your family, looking at them and how they’re doing and how they’re showing up and what their health and well-being is like is going to tell you what’s going on with the rest of the family.
Alexandra Cole
00:32:17 – 00:32:44
Because they are constantly absorbing everyone else’s energy, emotions, fears. Right? All of that. And in a way, they are then reflecting that back to you. And so for reflector children, it’s really important for them to understand how to manage this hypersensitivity because it can really throw you.
Alexandra Cole
00:32:44 – 00:33:12
Right? Because you can be feeling totally good, and then one person walks into the room. Right? Or one kid comes to class that day and is dealing with something really, really and you don’t even know what it is, but you feel in your body suddenly this grief or pain or anger that isn’t yours, and yet you’re still experiencing it as if it is. And so that’s something that is a lot for a little child to handle.
Alexandra Cole
00:33:12 – 00:33:57
And you might notice that reflectors do get sick more frequently. They do feel overwhelmed a lot depending and they’re very sensitive to environment, people as well as just, like, the energy and the vibe of the setting that they’re in. So as a parent, the best thing that you can do with a Reflector Child is teach them that a lot of the time what they’re experiencing isn’t actually theirs to carry. Right? And, also, be super mindful of, like, what are the environments and people that they seem most at peace around, and how can I make sure we’re spending most of our time in those types of places and avoiding the people that seem to, like, have the greatest triggering effect on them?
Victoria Volk
00:33:58 – 00:33:59
That was a lot.
Alexandra Cole
00:33:59 – 00:33:59
I know.
Victoria Volk
00:34:00 – 00:34:00
Thank you so much.
Victoria Volk
00:34:00 – 00:34:15
No. In a good way. In a in a good way because I hope people listening can are reflecting on their own lives and take from what you shared and apply it. And, hopefully, they already know their body type or their energy type.
Alexandra Cole
00:34:15 – 00:34:16
Energy type.
Victoria Volk
00:34:16 – 00:34:38
Yep. And or have their design. Right? They know their design. And if you don’t, I’m gonna put a link in the show notes where you can find that information out and then come back and listen to this again and find your children’s human design and listen to this, like, 2 or 3 times if you have to really take in what was shared because I think it’s so important.
Victoria Volk
00:34:38 – 00:34:49
The stuff that we I can’t even imagine being a reflector. Like, that just sounds so exhausting to me. Do I even know a reflector? I don’t even know if I know a reflector.
Alexandra Cole
00:34:50 – 00:34:54
I mean, they’re 1 only 1% of the population. So it’s possible that you don’t.
Victoria Volk
00:34:54 – 00:34:57
Well, in manifestors are, like, 9%. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:34:57 – 00:34:57
Mmm.Yup
Victoria Volk
00:34:57 – 00:35:08
So we’re kind of a rare breed too in a way, but no. Thank you so much for all of that. It’s just good for me. I’ve heard it, you know, I’ve heard it in other ways. And it’s when you hear it a different way, it’s just yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:35:08 – 00:35:27
I really love that. So thank you so much. I wanna go back to, like, your story though, and, like, how this all kind of played out, like, so with your relationship so when you first met your now husband, did you know his human design? Were you into human design? Not not at that time.
Victoria Volk
00:35:27 – 00:35:28
Not yet.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:28 – 00:35:30
Nope. Not yet at all.
Victoria Volk
00:35:30 – 00:35:30
Yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:31 – 00:35:56
Yep. And it’s been I I often credit human design to, you know, the fact that we still have a thriving relationship now 16 years later. Because neither of us were really planning on meeting our person that young. We still wanted to do a lot and travel a lot. And we, especially him, needed a lot of freedom to explore all those things before we settled down.
Alexandra Cole
00:35:56 – 00:36:29
So we didn’t get married until 10 years after we met, and then we took another few years before we had our son. But learning about his human design allowed me to be such a better partner for him because up until I learned about it, there were certain aspects. So he’s a projector, right, which, like I said, projectors need a lot of alone time. And I remember so distinctly, even in college too, you know, we’d have these, like, free afternoons. And my immediate response was, great.
Alexandra Cole
00:36:29 – 00:36:50
Let’s go do something. And you could tell he did not want to. Sometimes he kind of appeased me, but most of the time, it’s like, I just I just kinda wanna be by myself in my room. And I could not understand, and I would take it personally. So I would assume, oh, he’s not into me or he’s not into me as much as I’m into him.
Alexandra Cole
00:36:50 – 00:37:25
Right? And when I discovered that he was a projector, it all made so much sense. And I could finally stop taking those things personally because he would just sit in his room and watch a movie. And in my head, I’m like, well, I could just watch the movie with you, but it wouldn’t have been the same. Like, he really needed to be in his own aura, his own energy in order to fully recharge from the just busyness of being in college and playing a sport and you know, the whole social scene and life, like, that was really important for him.
Alexandra Cole
00:37:25 – 00:38:27
And I wish I knew in college because it would have saved me a lot of anxiety. But especially now also, you know, becoming parents and understanding, for example, that for a projector, starting his day slowly is really really supportive and allows him to show up more fully as a dad and as a partner later on in the day. Whereas for me, as a generator, I kind of wake up and immediate this is not true for all generators, but for me, I kind of have this, like, you know, steady current of energy that I can use as a parent. And so I take the majority of the morning shifts because I know that then later on, if I need him around dinner time, my husband’s gonna be present and ready to go. But if I or on the mornings where he does have to do the, you know, 6:30, 7 AM wake up, by the end of the day, he’s shot, and he needs more of that solo time to recharge.
Alexandra Cole
00:38:27 – 00:39:12
So it’s just learning to understand that and then not comparing his energetic outputs, right, to mine because they’re incomparable, and one isn’t better than the other. It’s just different. So when he has a solo weekend, for example, my husband knows that he can only be on, quote unquote, as that parent for 2, 3 hours at a time comfortably before it starts to become really really difficult. So he will, in advance, make sure he’s got his parents that are gonna take a little window, that we’ve got a babysitter that might take the little window to set him up for success. Whereas I am much better able to just kind of grind it out for 48 hours.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:12 – 00:39:36
Right? And for me, the more important thing is making sure that throughout the day, I get to do things that excite me and bring me joy and that I get to take my son to, like, my favorite coffee shop or treat us to, you know, a delicious dinner or get an hour at my, like, favorite Pilates studio. Like, that’s much more important to me and is not at all significant to my husband in that case.
Victoria Volk
00:39:36 – 00:39:45
I love that. What’s interesting is that I learned that my husband and I, he’s like the male version of me. We’re both
Alexandra Cole
00:39:45 – 00:39:47
Is he also a manifestor?
Victoria Volk
00:39:47 – 00:39:51
4, 6 emotional manifestor. Exactly.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:49 – 00:39:50
Wow.
Victoria Volk
00:39:51 – 00:39:51
He and I both.
Alexandra Cole
00:39:52 – 00:39:53
What are the odds? Like, that
Victoria Volk
00:39:53 – 00:40:12
Like what are the Odds? I 20 years. 20 years. But just knowing the things that I know, like, I’ve been kinda digging into the gates of love, which really has I mean, we have a lot of these, what are they called?
Victoria Volk
00:40:13 – 00:40:14
The gates of compromise?
Alexandra Cole
00:40:14 – 00:40:16
Yeah. Compromise channels.
Victoria Volk
00:40:16 – 00:40:41
Yeah. We have, like, 5 of them.
Alexandra Cole
00:40:18 – 00:40:18
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:40:18 – 00:40:41
And so just learning about those has been really eye opening and, like, just how he, like, you know, he’s he’s such a giver of of love and affection and, like, being the provider. And and when he’s not feeling like he’s getting something , getting that in return, like, the equivalent of that, like, he can feel a little bit of
Alexandra Cole
00:40:41 – 00:40:43
Taken for granted. He got anger.
Victoria Volk
00:40:43 – 00:40:43
Exactly. Yeah.
Alexandra Cole
00:40:43 – 00:40:43
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:40:43 – 00:40:53
So as a manifestor, anger is not our self theme. So when I feel myself getting angry about anything, it’s, oh, what what’s going on?
Alexandra Cole
00:40:54 – 00:41:22
And that’s another really good one to be aware of in partners and in kids too. Right? Because each of those energy types I just described has, you you know, what Victoria just mentioned, this not self theme, which is basically what comes up when you are compromising on your natural energetic pattern. And so for manifestors, that’s anger. So if you notice your child getting angry, your manifestor kid, it’s usually just a sign that they’re being limited in some way.
Alexandra Cole
00:41:22 – 00:42:05
They’re being forced to not listen to that, like, urge that they want to follow or pursue. And for a generator or manifesting generator, it’s gonna be frustration. So if you notice your child getting frustrated, right, or feeling more of that, like, stuck, that frustrated energy, that’s usually a sign that they’re being forced to do many thing too many things that don’t light them up, that aren’t exciting to them. And as a projector, the not-self is bitterness or a lot of the times it comes across as resentment. So if a projector is, you know, not being invited or recognized enough or they feel like they’re pushing themselves too hard beyond their energetic capacity.
Alexandra Cole
00:42:05 – 00:42:29
Right? They’re not given enough time to rest and recharge. They’ll start to get resentful about that. And then reflectors, the final one is disappointment. So if you notice that a reflector is, like, constantly disappointed in themselves or in the world and they just feel let down, that’s a sign that they probably, aren’t in the right environment.
Alexandra Cole
00:42:29 – 00:42:44
Right? That they’re not surrounded by the right people and that they are not able to or that they have absorbed far too much of everyone else’s energy and don’t really know what to do with it or can’t figure out how to let it go.
Victoria Volk
00:42:44 – 00:43:04
So how has this information helped you specifically? Because I’m sure you’ve had more grieving experiences since your mom’s passing, but how has the losses you’ve experienced since then? Been in how do I wanna word this? I think you know what I’m getting at. But, like
Alexandra Cole
00:43:04 – 00:43:04
Mhmm.
Victoria Volk
00:43:05 – 00:43:05
How do you use
Alexandra Cole
00:43:05 – 00:43:08
How do I use human design to support that process?
Victoria Volk
00:43:08 – 00:43:17
Yes. And where would one look at their human design to see where like, where are some areas for people to look in at their human design when it comes to grief?
Alexandra Cole
00:43:17 – 00:44:00
So it’s helped me in so many ways, and 3 come to mind immediately. The first being the energy type piece, and this is mostly around how to support yourself best as you go through that grief. So, again, for me, I know I’m going to feel most like myself and most energized when I am creating enough space to do things that light me up and bring me joy. So even in the face of well, especially in the face of grief, that becomes that much more important, right, to carve out that time for myself. And for projectors, for example, rest becomes that much more important that you’re not pushing yourself.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:01 – 00:44:32
And for manifestors, like, honoring your energetic ups and downs and your desires in that moment and letting go of what other people think becomes that much more important when you’re going through grief. So that’s one. The other piece is that emotional center that we already talked about. So I know that for me, it’s really important for me to allow myself to feel my feelings and to ride that wave. And I can now almost enjoy that process in a weird way.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:32 – 00:44:47
Right? Because I know it’s gonna I know that wave is gonna crash at some moment. Usually, there’s this wave like pattern to emotions, which I think also very much mirrors grief, right, where it kind of, like, comes rolling in. It builds. It builds.
Alexandra Cole
00:44:47 – 00:45:05
It builds. Then there’s this crescendo moment where you’re feeling so much. And then, eventually, that wave crashes, and you kind of find yourself bobbing at the surface in more of kind of that cool, calm, collected space. And you’re still feeling, but the charge has disappeared. Like, it’s less overwhelming.
Alexandra Cole
00:45:06 – 00:45:30
And so understanding that pattern has helped me a lot because I can kind of gauge where I am on that wave, and I can know, okay, it’s gonna crash soon, and that’s the place where I really wanna sit and reflect for a little bit. And be like, okay. What is what is this feeling trying to tell me? Because I know for me that the feelings are always trying to communicate something. So that’s another piece.
Alexandra Cole
00:45:30 – 00:45:55
I allow myself to really sit with things more as opposed to feel like I need to act or do something to resolve it. I know that that wave pattern is gonna continue to exist. Whereas, if you are an open emotional or a non emotional, so that emotional center is what we call undefined and you know you’re more sensitive to other people. If you’re going through grief, you might actually wanna isolate a little bit more. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:45:55 – 00:46:36
You might actually wanna remove yourself from the other grieving people because you it will almost overshadow your ability to kind of sit with your own grief because you’re gonna be feeling everyone else’s and then feel pressure, right, to respond to that or do something about their grief. So that’s a really helpful insight. And then the last thing that I’d say is looking at profile. So there’s this element in human design called profile, which speaks more to your personality and really to the how, to, like, how you approach things in life. And there’s 12 different profiles, and each profile consists of two numbers.
Alexandra Cole
00:46:37 – 00:47:14
And each of the numbers in the profile represent, like, an archetype that lives within you. So when Victoria was just saying we’re both 4 6 manifestors, the 4 6 is her profile and her husband’s profile. Each of these numbers also can tell you a little bit about, like, how you might process grief most effectively. So really quickly, the number one is known as the investigator archetype. So these are people who will want to know as much as possible and get into the research and feel most comfortable when they have all the data points and all the information.
Alexandra Cole
00:47:15 – 00:47:40
Right? So, for example, when it comes to grieving, these might be the people if, let’s say, it has something to do with an illness. Their immediate thing is I’m gonna research everything that, like, possible about this particular illness and, like, what the statistics are saying or they might delve into, I want to understand like the science behind grief and, like, what the different stages are. Right? Like, that’s very much the, like, one line.
Alexandra Cole
00:47:40 – 00:48:46
The 2, number 2 line is the naturally gifted person. It’s the person who, kind of picks things up very easily, intuitively, and naturally, doesn’t really need to study anything, but just knows in their bones certain things to be true or how to do certain things, Twos benefit a lot from alone time and having the ability to kind of in a safe cocoon-like space do their thing. So in times of grief, a 2 might feel like they really they just wanna, like, close the door to their bedroom and cry or journal or whatever that might look like, but they might feel this need to wanna do it themselves and to really get, like, fully absorbed in their own process and whatever feels good to them at that moment in time to move through it. Threes are like the experimenters. Threes are the the people who learn best through trial and error and throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks.
Alexandra Cole
00:48:46 – 00:48:57
So if you’re a 3 and you’re grieving, you might try all the different things. You might try a certain form of therapy. You might try journaling. You might try painting. You might try meditation.
Alexandra Cole
00:48:58 – 00:49:22
Right? And you just keep kind of, like, whatever you hear about or whatever sparks your interest, I encourage you to experiment with it and see if it supports you and feel supportive. Because the only way you’re gonna figure out what is going to help you through this grieving process is by just trying a lot of different things. And you won’t know just from hearing it from a friend. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:49:22 – 00:49:39
And just because it worked for the friend doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for you. You’ve gotta try it for yourself. Then there’s the 4. Fours are the relationship oriented people who are very sensitive to the quality of the relationships in their life. They’re very gifted connectors.
Alexandra Cole
00:49:40 – 00:50:21
They’re also people who, you know, get equally as lit up by social interactions as they can get exhausted by them, but it’s this, like, love hate relationship. Right? As you as you probably know, Victoria. So for fours, though, the support system is really really key when it comes to grief, making sure that you feel like you have those individuals in your life that you can vent to that are gonna show up for you, and being very aware of, like, what are the resources that I need, human resources as well as otherwise, in order to feel most supportive supported during this time. 5 is the problem solver.
Alexandra Cole
00:50:22 – 00:50:46
5 are the people who just immediately go into, like, fix it mode. Fives are also very much like, they feel a lot of responsibility. I have a 5. So you can see how, right, as a kid, my immediate reaction was, like, I’m gonna go into problem solving. I’m going to be the person that everyone in my family can rely on, and so that means shutting down my own emotions.
Alexandra Cole
00:50:46 – 00:51:33
So fives oftentimes have a lot going on below the surface that no one can see because they feel like they have to uphold a certain level of kind of responsibility, and they really hate disappointing other people. And they don’t like feeling vulnerable even though the vulnerability is actually the key for them. So for fives, finding even the one person or the one setting in which you can truly be vulnerable and allow that hard outer shell to kind of, like, disappear for a moment in times of grief is essential. Because in most situations, you’re gonna wanna be that, like, problem solver, and you can’t always be that. You need to also take care of yourself and your own needs in that sense.
Alexandra Cole
00:51:34 – 00:52:12
And then the last number, the 6, is the role model, and sixes are people who are wise beyond their years. They’re kind of these, like, natural advisers, very fair, very objective, and very reflective too. So for sixes as you’re going through grief, a lot of it will be reflecting on and observing kind of what’s coming up for me, what might that mean in almost like a bird’s eye view type of way. Right? Like, very much kind of, feeling almost like a little bit removed as if you’re looking at yourself going through that grieving process.
Alexandra Cole
00:52:13 – 00:52:45
But sixes might also, again, feel pressure to, play that role model part and therefore also not get, like, pulled under by their grief. And so it’s important for sixes to kind of still lean into that other number that they have because you always have 2 numbers in order to help them actually do that work because they’re very quickly gonna wanna go into, okay, what have I learned from this grief, and how can I now use that to support other people through the same process?
Victoria Volk
00:52:45 – 00:52:50
This has been gold. Just absolute gold. I how are you on time?
Alexandra Cole
00:52:50 – 00:52:54
I’m good. I probably should start wrapping it up though soon.
Victoria Volk
00:52:55 – 00:53:27
Okay. Oh, because I wanted to talk more about your story a little bit more, but, I wanna ask though quickly. So knowing what you know now, like, what gives you the most hope for the future? And, also, what is it about human design that you feel, you can bring into or how what would you suggest for Grievers to that’s not even a good question either. I’m trying to I wanna ask, like, a 1,000,000 questions right now because I’m I’m pressure root center.
Alexandra Cole
00:53:28 – 00:53:30
Mhmm. Just let it let it sit. You’ll get there.
Victoria Volk
00:53:32 – 00:53:48
Okay. What would you like to share? What do you think? I’m gonna just I’m gonna put it in your hands because you know human design far beyond my my capabilities. So what do you think is most important for people to know that you haven’t shared already?
Victoria Volk
00:53:48 – 00:53:57
And also the most important lesson and things that you have gotten from human design that you’re taking forward and that you’re utilizing in your life.
Alexandra Cole
00:53:57 – 00:54:28
I think I’ll keep it as simple and succinct as possible and say that the whole system of human design is built on this premise of differentiation, science of differentiation. Like, each of us is designed intentionally to be unique and different in terms of the way our energy works. And that, by definition, means that everyone is designed to grieve differently. Right? Like, there is no one size fits all approach to grief.
Alexandra Cole
00:54:28 – 00:54:59
And so I really encourage you to, you know, find some type of solace in that too. Right? That, like, just because, you know, something worked for someone else in your life and it’s not working for you, it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. It just means that you haven’t found the most aligned way for you to process that grief. And a lot of it comes down to understanding yourself on this, like, whole another level and trusting yourself.
Alexandra Cole
00:54:59 – 00:55:44
And I think that, again, we live in a world that puts so much pressure on us to be a certain way, to operate in a certain way. There’s a very clear right and wrong way to do things. And as a result, we compromise on or shut down and ignore those inner voices that, as kids, are much louder and then as adults kind of fade away into the background. And I hope that the grieving process serves as a way for you to start to get to know those voices again, to start to hear them more clearly, to start to kind of shut out all the shoulds that you’re feeling pressure to live up to from the outside world and really tune into what do I need, what does my body want. Right?
Alexandra Cole
00:55:45 – 00:56:26
How am I responding to whatever it is that you might be facing in that moment in time? Because if you can allow the grieving process to do that, you will come out on the other end so much stronger and more aligned and in tune with who you are really here to be. And if nothing else, right, that the grieving process is such a powerful way of just, like, shedding more layers and coming closer to, like, that authentic self. So accept and embrace this idea that we’re all here to do things differently and use this as an opportunity to kind of get to know what that unique recipe looks like for you.
Victoria Volk
00:56:27 – 00:56:29
I actually have a program. It’s called do grief differently.
Alexandra Cole
00:56:30 – 00:56:33
There you go. I didn’t even know that. See?
Victoria Volk
00:56:33 – 00:57:09
But it is a framework, and it is evidence-based. And so as I’m listening to you, I’m like, I’ve seen this work for so many different types of people, so many different personalities, of course, so many different energy types. Right? And so it is like, it is very much about digging into the emotional climate within you. And it’s individualized because it’s it’s a framework that you apply to your grief, not to your neighbor’s grief, your mother’s grief, your sister’s grief, your brother’s grief, whatever.
Victoria Volk
00:57:09 – 00:57:21
And I think that’s why it works because it’s individualized to you in your experience. And I think that’s why it works. But thank you so much. I absolutely loved this. I seriously have loved this.
Victoria Volk
00:57:21 – 00:57:55
I geek out on human design. I’m still in my own explore more exploration and experiment to, of course, and I think that will be a forever ongoing thing. I am a huge proponent of anything that helps us understand ourselves better because I think the most important thing that we can give ourselves is compassion and grace. Not like a grace as a past, but a grace of just self-grace for being able to honor yourself, who you are in the moment, and given yourself that compassion that maybe you didn’t receive growing up. Because of who you were.
Victoria Volk
00:57:55 – 00:58:11
I love Human Design for that reason. Clearly, it’s been a gift for you in your grief experience. And I really, I would love to have you back sometime again, because this was so good. This was really so good. So I really appreciate your time today.
Victoria Volk
00:58:11 – 00:58:16
And, yeah, just so so many so much thanks to you for sharing.
Alexandra Cole
00:58:16 – 00:58:18
Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk
00:58:18 – 00:58:32
I’m so impressed. Like, you just, like didn’t have to look up notes. Like, you knew it, like, the back of your hand. So I’m very impressed by that and impressed by you and everything that you shared today. Anything else you would like to share?
Alexandra Cole
00:58:32 – 00:58:50
No. I think that’s it. And just thank you for the work that you do too. I mean, I have there’s a special place in my heart for grief and finding frameworks and support to, you know, guide people through those moments in life. So thank you for the work you’re doing as well.
Victoria Volk
00:58:50 – 00:58:56
So how can people work with you? Because you have 2 websites. Right? You have 2 different websites.
Alexandra Cole
00:58:57 – 00:59:34
Yeah. I have 2 different websites. One of them is more just my personal website where you can book sessions, 1 on 1 sessions. Although I will say, because I’m about to have a baby, those sessions will pick up again in May or June, I would say. So that’s alexandracole.com. For all my other offerings and products, it’s thrivingbydesign.com, and that’s where you can find the wellness report or the well-being report that Victoria was talking about at the beginning, which takes your chart and translates it essentially into your optimal recipe for well-being.
Alexandra Cole
00:59:34 – 01:00:16
And we look at everything from rest and nourishment to mental and emotional health. So a lot of the things that we touched on today will come through in that report, but it’s very specific to well-being. It’s not, like, a broad overview of your chart, let’s say. I also, on that website, have something called Raised by Design, which is for parents who want to, at a very high level, understand their child’s design. It’s like a 20 page summary of just kind of the, like, main points that you need to understand with very tactical strategies for how to actually support your child in that way, in the most aligned way.
Victoria Volk
01:00:16 – 01:00:18
And that’s specific to your child’s chart.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:18 – 01:00:21
Correct? That’s specific to your child’s chart.
Victoria Volk
01:00:21 – 01:00:21
Gold, people.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:22 – 01:00:22
Yeah.
Victoria Volk
01:00:23 – 01:00:23
That’s gold.
Alexandra Cole
01:00:24 – 01:00:36
Yeah. So I mean, there’s a lot of other also free resources and different things on Thriving by Design, but those are 2 reports that I, you know, are worth calling out specifically.
Victoria Volk
01:00:36 – 01:00:37
How about the purpose playbook?
Alexandra Cole
01:00:38 – 01:01:22
The purpose playbook is my book that I wrote, you know, after that experience of just kind of leaving the corporate world and reflecting on, you know, what allowed me to do that with so much conviction and confidence. It doesn’t actually even talk about human design. It’s very much like a framework for helping people pinpoint, like, what their purpose and mission is in this life and how to go pursue it in a aligned way. So I wrote that book back in 2019, came out in 2020. So if you’re looking for more of the kind of step by step process to articulate and live out your purpose in life, that’s that’s a really helpful resource too.
Victoria Volk
01:01:22 – 01:01:27
I bet you could come up with a second book knowing what you know now.
Alexandra Cole
01:01:27 – 01:01:36
Maybe. I know. I know. It’s just such a big endeavor, and I’ve been you know, my biggest projects these past few years have been kids. So once I get past that, who knows?
Alexandra Cole
01:01:36 – 01:01:37
The next will be a book.
Victoria Volk
01:01:38 – 01:02:26
Quickly, the few things that from the ebook, I just wanna share from the well by design. For me, it was so surprising things were, exercise in the afternoon to cleanse my system, which I found I naturally tend to do that sometimes. I was very surprised to learn that I don’t need much food to, yeah, I don’t need as much food to feel nourished, which I was really surprising to me because I’ve just went through a coaching thing and, you know, a lot of it was like macros, and I had to eat so much food, so much food, and I had so much energy, but, you know, I could tell my something was waning at some I know it’s a point, you know, when it came to my digestion and stuff. So that was interesting. And not surprising is that I’m prone to overthinking, which but it’s so good too.
Victoria Volk
01:02:26 – 01:02:42
So I really highly recommend that people check that out. And I’ll put all of the information in the show notes, but I just wanted to quickly share that. Yes. The well by design report is excellent. I the raise by design, get your hands on it because, you know, your children are a product of your parenting.
Victoria Volk
01:02:42 – 01:02:42
Right?
Alexandra Cole
01:02:44 – 01:02:54
100%. Yeah. In a way. They’re they’re actually very like, they have their own makeup, but as a parent, you can either support or negate it. And that’s the key.
Alexandra Cole
01:02:54 – 01:03:04
Right? Like, we wanna actually, as parents, encourage them to become more of themselves as opposed to more of what the world expects them or wants them to be.
Victoria Volk
01:03:04 – 01:03:14
Yeah. No pressure.
Alexandra Cole
01:03:05 – 01:03:05
I know.
Victoria Volk
01:03:05 – 01:03:14
But I think when it comes to grief, right, this is why this information is so important and why I wanted to have you on. So thank you.
Victoria Volk
01:03:14 – 01:03:17
Thank you again. Thank you again for being here.
Alexandra Cole
01:03:17 – 01:03:19
Of course. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk
01:03:19 – 01:03:24
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Educational, Grief Tips, Grieving Voices Podcast, Podcast, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In the quiet moments of early morning, as the world stirs awake and you’re left with your thoughts, do you ever reflect on what self-love truly means? How often do we pause to consider that perhaps the most enduring relationship we’ll ever have is with ourselves?
As Valentine’s Day approaches, hearts and flowers flood our surroundings, reminding us all about love. But amidst this celebration of affection, a deeper connection often goes unnoticed – the love we give ourselves.
This week on Grieving Voices, I’m peeling back the layers of what it means to cherish and prioritize yourself truly. As Valentine’s Day approaches, let’s shift our focus from external expressions of affection to cultivating an inner sanctuary of self-compassion and care.
The key takeaways from this episode include:
- The significance of daily self-love practices such as affirmations, gratitude journaling, self-care rituals, mindful movements like yoga or walking, engaging in creative endeavors, eating healthily, taking breaks from digital devices, and honoring one’s emotions.
- How these practices create joyous avenues toward hope and emotional liberation.
- The importance of establishing healthy boundaries for overall well-being.
Conditional or self-sacrificial love isn’t sustainable. True empowerment comes when choices are made free from the weight of others’ expectations—when they spring from a well of genuine self-regard.
How do we cultivate this kind of self-love? Daily affirmations remind us of our worthiness. A gratitude practice opens our eyes to life’s blessings amidst pain. Self-care days aren’t indulgent—they’re necessary retreats for rejuvenation. Mindful movement brings us back into harmony with our bodies, while creative expression unlocks inner worlds waiting to be explored.
Proper nutrition fuels not just the body but also the spirit—and sometimes, what we need most is simply disconnecting from digital noise through detoxes that allow quiet reflection and growth.
This Valentine’s Day, let’s shift the focus inward. Celebrate by embracing your internal reservoirs of love so that every other day is enriched by your own heart’s abundance.
RESOURCES:
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Self-Love: A Journey to Healing and Hope
In the labyrinth of life, where loss and grief often find their way into our hearts, it becomes essential to engage in a dialogue that not only acknowledges pain but also fosters healing. Victoria from unleashedheart.com has been instrumental in leading this conversation through her podcast “Grieving Voices.” With an empathetic voice and deep personal understanding, she reaches out to those grappling with grief and offers solace through shared experiences.
As we approach Valentine’s Day—a time typically associated with romantic love, I shift the focus towards a different kind of love: self-love. In a society that frequently glamorizes external affection, it is crucial to remember that the foundation of all love starts within us. This episode serves as a gentle reminder that while flowers may wilt and chocolates will be consumed, the nurturing of one’s own soul is perennial.
Self-love isn’t just about pampering oneself; it’s about acknowledging your worthiness despite your struggles. It’s about setting aside time for morning affirmations which anchor you into positivity for the day ahead. Gratitude practices remind us of what blooms brightly in our lives even when shadows cast long lines across our paths.
Moreover, self-care rituals are acts of kindness we bestow upon ourselves; they could range from an indulgent bath to simply turning off your phone at dinner. Mindful movement such as yoga or walking can reconnect us with our bodies—a home we should cherish regardless of its imperfections.
Creative outlets like painting or writing allow emotions a canvas on which they can be expressed without judgment—an important aspect when navigating through grief. Nutritious eating fuels both body and mind while digital detoxing provides much-needed respite from constant connectivity which can sometimes amplify feelings of isolation rather than alleviate them.
But perhaps most importantly, addressing one’s feelings openly—acknowledging sadness, anger or confusion—is critical for emotional freedom. By confronting these emotions head-on rather than suppressing them, individuals create space for joy and hope to re-enter their lives.
I reinforce this message by integrating these principles into her 12-week program Do Grieve Differently—it’s designed not only as support during times of sorrow but also as guidance toward achieving emotional completeness beyond periods marked by loss.
This holistic approach underlines how integral self-love is in finding purpose after pain—the ability to establish healthy boundaries stems directly from how much respect we afford ourselves internally first before extending outwardly towards others.
The beauty lies not only in embracing self-love on days dedicated to affection but making it an intrinsic part of daily living—for resilience grows when nurtured consistently over time.
To close her heartfelt episode, I extend gratitude towards listeners who share their journey with her on “Grieving Voices,” reminding everyone that unleashing their heart equates to unleashing potential within every facet of life.
For those grieving or supporting someone who grieves—remember you’re never alone; there exists community spaces like my podcast offering comfort amidst chaos—a testament that compassion knows no bounds nor does the quest for understanding ever cease.
Listeners are encouraged to pass along this message—to spread compassion far & wide—and remember always: Your feelings are valid indicators reflecting real experiences—they deserve recognition & care.
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:01:29 – 00:01:44
Welcome. Welcome. It’s another episode of Grieving Voices, and I am your host, Victoria V.
Victoria Volk
00:01:44 – 00:02:36
And today’s episode is inspired by Valentine’s Day because in the US, that is tomorrow on February 14th. And I know for a lot of people listening, this might not be perhaps a happy Valentine’s Day. And so, in the spirit of broken hearts and less than loving feelings, I thought I would share today’s episode on the topic of self-love. But I wanna start by saying, first of all, I love you. I love you for being a part of my community, for being a listener, for just being you, and sharing whatever gifts you have with the world, if you are and if you aren’t, and you just haven’t discovered them yet, that’s okay.
Victoria Volk
00:02:36 – 00:03:41
I think we feel so much pressure sometimes to do some big things in the world. And I know personally, I’ve felt a lot of pressure within myself to do that, to leave some sort of legacy and that can cause us a lot of grief. And I know finding your purpose and waking up every day and when your feet hit the floor and feeling like you have purpose or not feeling it can bring a lot of grief into our hearts. I think what’s so important when you find yourself in those situations or when you’re feeling that way, the best thing you can do for yourself is to give yourself some love because really that’s where it all starts. I think we can only love others to the depth that we love ourselves because otherwise, it could be conditional or it could be self-sacrificial And maybe we have these expectations of something and receiving something in return, which makes it conditional.
Victoria Volk
00:03:41 – 00:04:23
So I just wanna talk a little bit about self-love today and then offer some practical things that you can do to nurture some love within yourself. And so, let’s get started. I think as a teenager, I had a very difficult time loving myself. I don’t think I really truly started to love myself until after I addressed a lot of the anger and resentment I was holding within myself with that my body was holding onto and I’ll get more into that later but I can say now for the most part, of course, we all have our days, We all have our moments,
Victoria Volk
00:04:24 – 00:04:52
We all have that comparisonitis, which I used to have it so bad. But when you can get to the point where you Where you walk to the beat of your own drum, then you know you’ve gotten to a place of self-love and there’s always more More to do in that department, I think. There’s more that I could do for myself, I know, But I will say as of today that I love myself. I love the person who I am.
Victoria Volk
00:04:52 – 00:05:20
I love the person that I’m becoming each and every day. And I wish the same for you, but for a long time, I didn’t feel this way. I remember being a teenager and trying to make myself throw up. I was only successful one time. I quickly realized that Strong foul orders caused a stronger gag reflex for me. But man, didn’t it suck being a teenager?
Victoria Volk
00:05:21 – 00:06:16
Like when you think back, I know a lot of my listeners are probably 35 ish or my age, 25 to 45. Being a teenager sucked, and I think it’s just much harder now to navigate being a teenager As a parent looking in, and just in the conversations I have with my kids and how much technology has progressed. But today, self-love is a bit of a buzz phrase, and I just want you to contemplate though The importance of self-love in your life. Maybe it’s not even something you’ve given much thought to, but Valentine’s day is the perfect time to remember that love does start from within. This year, let’s shift the focus from external relationships to the most important relationship of all, The one we have with ourselves. 1st, I wanna make some distinctions.
Victoria Volk
00:06:17 – 00:07:15
Love is the willingness and ability to allow others the right to make their own choices for themselves without any insistence that they Satisfy me. Let me say that again, The willingness and ability to allow others the right to make their own choices for themselves without any insistence that they satisfy me. Loving myself is the willingness and ability To allow me the right to make my own choices for myself without any insistence That I satisfy others. Again, loving myself is the willingness And ability to allow me the right to make my own choices for myself without any insistence that I satisfy others.
Victoria Volk
00:07:16 – 00:07:54
So how do you cultivate love within yourself? 1st, and I think above all, we have to open our hearts to receiving it. And this starts with cultivating it from within to become softened enough to be open to first recognizing it and then receiving it from others. The more love you cultivate for yourself, the more you will understand where in your life you have been self sacrificing to satisfy others. Self-love is the ticket to realizing your boundaries, and self-love is the ticket to laying down the armor you’ve worn to protect yourself.
Victoria Volk
00:07:55 – 00:08:25
Embracing self-love is a beautiful way to celebrate Valentine’s Day, and today, I’d like to share some practical self-love rituals to get started in nurturing your heart and soul. Number 1, morning affirmations. Start your day by speaking kind and loving words to yourself. Look in the mirror and affirm your worth, beauty, and strength. Repeat positive affirmations that resonate with you, such as I’m deserving of love and happiness.
Victoria Volk
00:08:26 – 00:08:44
Or I embrace my uniqueness and shine my light. 2. Gratitude practice. Take a moment to reflect on everything you appreciate about you. Write down 3 things you love about yourself each day.
Victoria Volk
00:08:45 – 00:09:15
It could be your resilience, your creativity, or compassion. Cultivating gratitude for your own qualities and accomplishments can boost your self-esteem and foster a deeper sense of self-love. 3. Self-care spa. Treat yourself to a luxurious self-care spa day. Draw a warm bath with your favorite bath salts and essential oils, Light some candles, play some soothing music, and indulge in a nourishing face mask or body scrub.
Victoria Volk
00:09:15 – 00:09:39
Allow yourself to fully relax and pamper Your body, mind, and spirit. 4. Mindful movement. Engage in activities that make you feel connected to your body and Promote self-love. Try a gentle yoga or meditation session to cultivate mindfulness and self compassion. Focus on your breath and listen to what your body needs in the present moment.
Victoria Volk
00:09:41 – 00:10:01
5. Creative expression. Tap into your creative energy as a form of self expression and self-love. Engage in painting, writing, dancing, or playing an instrument. Allow yourself to explore your passions and express your innermost thoughts and emotions. 6.
Victoria Volk
00:10:02 – 00:10:33
Nourishing nutrition. Show some love to your body by nourishing it with wholesome foods, Or treat yourself to a trial of a home food delivery kit, like HelloFresh. They are not sponsoring this episode, but I would just wanted to share. But I think this is a great idea for people to give themselves their time back. Take off some stress, Those busy weeknights when you just don’t know what to make or you haven’t had a chance to run to the store, this is a gift you give yourself.
Victoria Volk
00:10:34 – 00:11:02
I think it’s a great idea for lunches. You know, if you have to if you’re working from home or if you take lunch with you, just it’s It’s one less meal that you have to think about that’s also nutrient dense. 7. Digital detox. Take a break from technology and social media to create space for self reflection and self discovery. Disconnecting from the digital world allows you to connect with your Self, and your desires, dreams, and aspirations.
Victoria Volk
00:11:04 – 00:11:37
And last but not least, Address your feelings. And I think this is one of the most important. Whether you are angry at someone, holding on to resentment from long ago, Or experiencing feelings of guilt, shame, or sadness, all of these hold a deep well of wisdom for you. Our feelings are what drive our behaviors. Change the thoughts that create your feelings, which drive your behavior by learning new knowledge and new tools, and what you get is emotional completeness.
Victoria Volk
00:11:38 – 00:12:11
In other words, More joy, hope, and emotional freedom. All of which you receive when you go through my program, Do Grief differently, which will be linked in the show notes. But remember, self-love is an ongoing practice That requires patience and compassion. Be gentle with yourself and embrace the journey of self discovery by prioritizing self love, you are cultivating a strong foundation for all other relationships in your life.
Victoria Volk
00:12:12 – 00:12:37
So this Valentine’s Day and every day, let’s celebrate the love that resides within each of us. Embrace these self-love rituals and make them a part of your daily routine, not just on Valentine’s Day, but every day. You deserve love, care, and kindness. It all starts with loving yourself. Again, Thank you so much for being here, for listening.
Victoria Volk
00:12:38 – 00:13:07
I wish you a wonderful Valentine’s Day filled with self-love and joy, and every day. Because remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Childhood Grief, Grieving Voices Podcast, Parent Loss, Personal, Podcast, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In the quiet moments of reflection, we often find ourselves face-to-face with our deepest losses. Join me today as I embark on a unique episode of “Grieving Voices,” where I read an excerpt from my self-published book, “The Guided Heart: Moving Through Grief and Finding Spiritual Solace.” Let’s discover how my own experiences with loss from a young age have unknowingly mirrored the language of grief recovery even before I formally encountered it.
In this heartfelt session, I explore:
- The personal impact of losing my father at eight years old.
- How grief manifested in different aspects of my life.
- The therapeutic power of journaling during my high school years.
- Insights into emotional unavailability and its effects on family dynamics.
In this episode, I also draw connections between the content in my book written before learning about grief recovery methods and the concepts found within them. I share thoughts on letting go, acknowledging pain points, and coping mechanisms that can span decades.
Grief isn’t selective; it touches all corners of life, including relationships, careers, finances, and more. The way we cope can either mend or strain our emotional health. My story is not unique – it echoes many others’ struggles with life after loss.
Reflect on your path by following along in an exercise I propose—writing down your feelings to confront the emotional weight you carry. It’s not just cathartic; it’s a step toward understanding and clarity.
As we continue exploring various dimensions of grief throughout future episodes of “Grieving Voices,” remember that each person’s path toward healing is unique. Whether through reconnecting with faith or finding solace within oneself after experiencing profound losses—as I did—the goal remains constant: acknowledging our pain so that we may embrace life more fully and presently.
RESOURCES:
Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive 20% off
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Embracing Grief: Finding Solace in Your Journey of Loss
Grief is a universal experience, yet it’s one that each individual navigates differently. In today’s post, inspired by the personal reflections and insights from my book “The Guided Heart,” we will delve deeper into the complex tapestry of grief and explore how embracing our grief stories can lead to spiritual solace and growth.
Understanding Grief Through Personal Narratives
At the heart of every grief journey lies a story – often untold, deeply personal, and uniquely impactful. As I share my own narrative about losing my father at a tender age, I sheds light on an essential truth: our earliest encounters with loss shape our future selves. The absence of emotional support during such formative years can carve out coping mechanisms that endure throughout life.
Journaling or writing poetry as I did are more than outlets for expression; they’re lifelines for those adrift in the sea of sorrow. They help us anchor ourselves amidst turbulent emotions and offer glimpses into our subconscious minds where healing begins.
The Multifaceted Nature of Grief
Loss does not discriminate nor confine itself to physical death alone. It seeps through life’s crevices – be it through divorce, financial hardship, career upheaval or struggles like infertility. Each variant brings its unique brand of pain and requires its distinct mode of healing.
My book prompts readers to recognize these variations as part of their broader grief story. By acknowledging them rather than suppressing them, we pave the way for genuine well-being instead of temporary fixes.
Writing Out Our Feelings: A Therapeutic Exercise
One practical takeaway from “The Guided Heart” is the exercise to write down what you feel when faced with loss or change – much like journaling but with directed intent towards understanding your emotional landscape better. This simple act serves two purposes: catharsis and clarity — releasing pent-up emotions while also helping map out your internal world during times when everything seems chaotic externally.
Spiritual Solace Amidst Sorrow
Spirituality often intertwines with grieving processes because both deal with questions beyond mere existence — purpose, connection, transcendence. For some people like myself who reconnected profoundly with faith after another significant loss at 21 years old – spirituality offers not just comfort but guidance too; it becomes both compass and companion along their path toward recovery.
Every person’s spiritual journey varies greatly based on beliefs systems cultivated over time combined together experiences encountered along life paths chosen (or sometimes thrust upon us).
Support Systems Like Do Grief Differently Program
For those seeking structured assistance navigating their mourning period may find solace programs such “Do Grief Differently” which provide frameworks within which individuals work methodically through emotional challenges associated significant losses experienced personally thereby enabling participants emerge stronger ready face whatever comes next chapter lives waiting be written anew hope resilience newfound wisdom gained hard-won battles fought within hearts minds souls searching meaning midst despair found instead profound realization:
By confronting embracing grieving process head-on unflinchingly courageously wholeheartedly —we unlock potential live fuller present existences enriched by memories loved ones lost never forgotten always cherished revered honored lived up legacies left behind inspire current future generations alike continue quest understand intricate complexities human condition called Life filled equal parts joy sadness triumph tragedy love longing laughter tears silence screams whispers roars echoes reverberating across time space forevermore…
Remember take care of yourself during this difficult time listen to body mind spirit needs most importantly give permission to grieve own pace own way safe knowledge community others walking similar paths alongside offering support encouragement empathy compassion whenever needed most.
In conclusion, embrace the journey and allow a guide heart true north star guiding the night sky darkest hours dawn new day horizon promising fresh beginnings possibilities limitless imagination dare dream once again…
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:41
Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is that you are listening to this. Thank you for being here. I’m your host, Victoria V, and this is episode 180 of grieving voices. And I decided to do something different for an episode and read an excerpt from my book, The Guided Heart, Moving Through Grief and Finding Spiritual Solace, which I self-published in 2017., And I just picked up the book off of my shelf and flipped it open to its Part 2, chapter 1.
Victoria Volk
00:00:42 – 00:01:22
And, I started reading, and to be truth be told, I have not read my book since I’ve self-published it. So it’s been quite a few years. But in reading this chapter, I realized that there were a lot of things I share in it that actually is the language of grief recovery. And so before I even discovered grief recovery, this book was written, and it’s like I had this knowing about grief, I mean, I grew up with it. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:01:22 – 00:02:43
Like, I grew up with grief from a very young age, and just in reading about my experience of my different grief experiences, I just could pinpoint this language that we use in grief recovery, and I just find that interesting because for someone who felt like they were doing okay or that they felt like they didn’t need help, which was me very much so for many years. I still had this understanding of it, and yet so I think back now in hindsight, it’s like why couldn’t I figure why couldn’t I figure out that it wasn’t me that was messed up? Like, it wasn’t my fault that I felt messed up or that something was wrong with me. It was it was grief. And, yeah, and the grace that I sent to myself back then just reading this.
Victoria Volk
00:02:46 – 00:03:24
Anyway, you’ll get what I’m saying when I read this, but, I would also encourage you to read the grief recovery handbook, and I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. And then you’ll really understand what it is I’m talking about here in drawing the connection between what I will have learned 2 years after publishing this book. And yet, that language is still in this book. And so I knew grief and understood grief better than I thought I did. I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make.
Victoria Volk
00:03:26 – 00:03:50
Anyway, I digress. Let me get on with this week’s episode and reading an excerpt from my book, which is not on Audible, but perhaps maybe I should just sit down and record reading my book, and so that it is. Anyway, let’s get started. And I’m mistaken. It’s actually part 1.
Victoria Volk
00:03:51 – 00:04:08
We all have a story. Chapter 1. What is your grief story? Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. It’s a quote by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Victoria Volk
00:04:10 – 00:04:39
She doesn’t understand anyway, I heard someone say, talking about me as if I wasn’t even there. March 31, 1987 is the anniversary of my father’s death. On July 30th that year, he would have turned 45 years old. He spent the last 2 years of his life, after having been given only 6 months to live, fighting a battle he knew he wouldn’t win. The doctors said there was nothing they could do.
Victoria Volk
00:04:39 – 00:05:16
The cancer had spread to surrounding tissues and organs. Colon cancer took my father away, and my mother became a widow at 43 years old. Being left to raise 2 children still living at home, myself, age 8, and my brother, 14 at the time. I’m not sure any woman in her position or any woman who has been in her position would know what to do, how to do it, or how to navigate raising grieving children while grieving themselves. It was impossible for me to understand then the profound effect my father’s death would have on me.
Victoria Volk
00:05:16 – 00:05:39
By the time I was 10 years old, I would begin to grasp exactly that. 2 years after the death of my father, my mother remarried. The new man in her life was a long-haul trucker and was home typically every other weekend. Theirs was a tumultuous relationship. There are many disputes during their 9-year marriage, and it ultimately ended in divorce.
Victoria Volk
00:05:40 – 00:06:14
I learned during that time and from the time of my father’s death that my mother was emotionally incapable of being there for both my brother and myself. I grew up quickly, as did my brother. I wasn’t wasn’t a child who lashed out or got into mischief. Rather, I was the wallflower, the introvert, the shy girl in the corner who spoke up when spoken to. And honestly, to this day, I’m not quite sure how I managed my grief as a young girl, particularly in elementary school, other than stuffing it all down.
Victoria Volk
00:06:16 – 00:06:41
My mother did not know what to do for my brother or myself. There was no grief counseling. And for reasons still unclear to this day, my father’s family ceased to exist in my life following the funeral. So from a young age, my family was my immediate family, as well as some family on my mother’s side, quite small in comparison to what I would later marry into in adulthood. Learning to cope.
Victoria Volk
00:06:42 – 00:07:12
It wasn’t until journaling was a requirement for English class in high school that I started to express my feelings. I wrote poetry, started journaling for myself in addition to journaling for class. And for the first time, I began to feel some of what I stuffed down for so many years. During this period in my life, there were several occasions where I lashed out at my mother, often out of frustration that had built up within me over the years. I don’t know if my mother knew how to be there for me.
Victoria Volk
00:07:12 – 00:07:38
She couldn’t emotionally care for herself. I detached myself as much as I could. Being a teenager is hard enough, but being a female teenager of an emotionally trapped mother is even harder. Therefore, we never developed a mother daughter bond that I would have loved to have shared with her. I think she realized the daughter who had taken emotional care of her all those years was eventually leaving too.
Victoria Volk
00:07:39 – 00:08:01
My childhood is where my grief story began. However, it’s certainly not where it ended. There would be several more lessons to follow in my life. I believe there are different faces grief presents during our lives, and often, it presents itself in ways you least expect. The faces of grief.
Victoria Volk
00:08:03 – 00:08:41
On some level, I still grieve for the normal childhood I could have had had my father’s untimely death not happened, but in reality, I’ll never know what that other life would have been. So it’s not the not knowing, not getting the chance that I would come to deal with years later as well. I grieve for all the moments in my life my dad was never a part of, protecting me as fathers do, walking me down the aisle, seeing and knowing his grandchildren, and, likewise, my children knowing their grandfather. These are the things I still grieve for grief, in my opinion, never leaves.
Victoria Volk
00:08:41 – 00:09:16
It is not something to get over. It is something to sit with, work through, and live with, just in a different way as the years go on. At some point in life, all of us experience grief, whether it be losing someone we love, a divorce, a devastating financial loss, loss of career, even infertility, all cause some form of emotional pain. How we cope with it can mean months or even years, maybe even decades of loss of well-being. That to me is tragic.
Victoria Volk
00:09:17 – 00:09:44
When we remain emotionally paralyzed, we do ourselves, those still in our lives, our communities, in our world, a disservice. Through my life, I can pinpoint at least 9 pain points where I experienced a feeling of loss. Many have to do with the death due to illness. However, not all. I have grieved lost opportunity, not knowing my father’s family or having a relationship with them.
Victoria Volk
00:09:45 – 00:10:15
Lost time with my kids because in my previous business, I was driven to prove something as well as a loss of friendships and relationships. No matter how grief appears in your life, it’s sure to make you feel as though you’re no longer in control. You may become aware of your own mortality, which can cause self-reflection. When we self-reflect, we often realize our shortcomings or focus on the negative. It is being faced with uncomfortable feelings that arise from grief that shake us.
Victoria Volk
00:10:16 – 00:10:32
Often, we just don’t know what to do with those feelings. At least I know my mother didn’t. As a result, neither did I. And so this dynamic played out for decades. Your grief story.
Victoria Volk
00:10:34 – 00:11:08
What is your grief story? If you haven’t experience the loss of a loved one, which I presume is why you picked up this book and decided to turn its pages, but rather experience the loss of love, career, or even health, these are still losses that cause some level of grief. Have you considered all that has been handed your way in life that has caused you emotional pain in some way? What are those moments that have stuck with you, which have given you a lingering feeling of loss. Maybe it wasn’t what was, but what could have been?
Victoria Volk
00:11:10 – 00:12:17
I don’t think there is a person out there who hasn’t experienced any form of grief. As a parent myself, I cannot even fathom the helplessness and hopelessness my dad must have felt and the thoughts that ran through his mind when he received his diagnosis. To know that you won’t be around to watch your children grow, that you will never see your grandchildren or witness your kids get married, all of the hopes and dreams of living a life, a full life with your spouse are shattered in one sentence spoken by a doctor sitting across from you in a sterile and personal office. It’s easy to think of my grief, but it deepens my sadness when I acknowledge what my father must have experienced, sometimes just trying to place ourselves in the shoes of another changes our perspective. In my case, I am humbled when I think of the strength my father showed out showed all of us, the fight within him to hang on for just one more day, month and ultimately, 2 more years.
Victoria Volk
00:12:18 – 00:13:09
My grief consumed me for many years. I will touch on certain aspects of what I mean as the chapters progress. For now, the first three chapters will focus on grief itself from a spiritual perspective, the ways it can present itself in our lives and a preface of getting it resolved., Before we move forward talking about a spiritual journey with grief in the excerpt of my book, I just want to share, The sponsor of this week’s episode, which is Magic Mind. And one of the ingredients in Magic Mind is cordyceps mushrooms, which is an adaptogen that reduces inflammation, strengthens your immune system, and supports higher energy levels and physical endurance by ramping up the production of ATP in your mitochondria.
Victoria Volk
00:13:10 – 00:13:51
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Victoria Volk
00:13:52 – 00:14:22
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Victoria Volk
00:14:22 – 00:15:06
And, again, I’ve been using this for several months now, and it really does help me get stuff done because I feel a sense of calm even if I feel overwhelmed by everything that I need to get accomplished in a day. This stuff helps me just I don’t know. It’s these ingredients just help me calm my nervous system and get me into a state of focus. And I think as grievers and, you know, life throws challenges our way and, you know, curve balls and things, like anything that can help support us, not only to get stuff done, but also our immune system. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:15:06 – 00:15:24
So that we can feel good too and maintain our health and wellness. And so check it out. Grieving voices is the coupon code. Magicmind.com slash grieving voices is the website and I will put a link to that in the show notes. Alright.
Victoria Volk
00:15:24 – 00:15:47
Let’s get back to the excerpt from my book. A spiritual journey with grief. I think it is important I make it abundantly clear that I’m coming from a spiritual place in my heart. I do not wish to stuff my beliefs down your throat as much as I don’t want judgment past for feeling the way I do. All of us have a unique spiritual path we follow.
Victoria Volk
00:15:48 – 00:16:08
Mine has certainly been full of twists and turns before my father’s passing, we were a typical Lutheran family, attending church every Sunday as well as Sunday school. After my dad’s death, however, all of that changed. We stopped going to church altogether. I did attend confirmation classes and was confirmed Lutheran.
Victoria Volk
00:16:08 – 00:16:31
However, it would either have to be a funeral or a wedding for me to set foot in a church of any kind until I was 23 when my husband and I began a relationship. I was bitter for many years. Granted, I had a lot of years to be bitter. Fortunately, life worked out for me the way it did as I prayed, received. And, really, it’s as simple as that.
Victoria Volk
00:16:32 – 00:16:56
After many years of not having the ability to pray from the heart, life had finally handed me more grief than I could bear. Feeling tapped out emotionally and overwhelmed, I prayed because I simply did not know what else to do. The rest is history, so to speak., Everything changed moving forward. Before my husband came into my life as more than a friend, I was on a self-destructive path.
Victoria Volk
00:16:57 – 00:17:21
I was becoming an expert at goodbyes, and I led a very narcissistic lifestyle. I don’t know what my husband saw in me, honestly. At that point, we had known each other for 7 years since we met in high school, but he was a far better human being than I was, bar none. It was one more experience with grief when I was 21. That was, in simple terms, the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Victoria Volk
00:17:22 – 00:17:54
A 5 year relationship was over, as was the life I thought we were going to have. Later, this loss would prove to be a blessing in disguise, which, as my life illustrates, can be the case at times., Surely, when it comes to relationship, you may relate as well. Sometimes we just don’t understand what it is that is best for us. Our minds tell us one thing, while our hearts and intuition tell us another, and we tend to choose the path of least resistance and pain.
Victoria Volk
00:17:54 – 00:18:19
It’s also difficult to discern the best decision when you are caught up in emotion. We tend to check rationality at the door when we have a grandiose view of ourselves, the world, and those we perch up on pedestals. My self-worth was nonexistent. Thankfully, God showed me a better way. More on my spiritual journey with grief in detail in chapter 3.
Victoria Volk
00:18:19 – 00:18:45
In the meantime, know that for me, a higher power seemed like a very out of reach concept for me. Acknowledgment of all that had gone wrong and all that had gone right. This was the first baby step on my journey to resolving my grief. Steps towards resolving grief. As I’ve previously mentioned, grief has many faces.
Victoria Volk
00:18:46 – 00:19:16
I touched on a few ways. I’ve experienced different forms of grief different forms of it myself. For instance, losing my photography business after 6 Sears was one of the most difficult decisions I had I have made. I know how much of myself I poured into creating and maintaining my business all those years. The time, money, sweat equity, not to mention the sleep deprivation while raising 3 young children ages 4 and under at the time, it certainly was a labor of love.
Victoria Volk
00:19:17 – 00:19:45
I grieved for months leading up to my decision as I knew it was what needed to be done at that stage in my life. I continued to wallow in my sadness until I finally decided to make it official with the selling of most of my gear over a year later. I found the act of officially letting go the hardest part. Isn’t that what grief ultimately causes us to do? Let go of what was and what will never be again.
Victoria Volk
00:19:47 – 00:20:11
Isn’t that too what grief itself is? The emotional reaction to loss or a change of any kind. We fight to hold on, and we fight to let go. That is the dilemma of grief, isn’t it? What I would like you to do is think of a moment in your life that caused you to have an emotional reaction to loss or a change of any kind.
Victoria Volk
00:20:12 – 00:20:47
Close this book and reflect on the feelings that arise when your mind takes you back to a time such as this in your life. Go ahead and open these pages again when ready. Now, if you want to feel more strongly the impact that loss or change had on you, grab a notebook, a writing utensil, and head to a quiet space, or do this exercise as soon as it is convenient. Set a timer for 30 minutes and just write. If you’re stumped on where to begin, finish this sentence.
Victoria Volk
00:20:49 – 00:21:42
The loss of blank made me feel as though blank. One thing to consider before doing this is to understand my intention, which is having you write out, possibly for the first time, your feelings surrounding the event that has shaken you to your core. When we release our feelings on paper, and I speak from personal experience, they tend to have less power over us, especially if we’re in a place of not knowing who we can truly talk to. The act of writing our fears, worries, and emotional pain forces us to sit with those feelings and can be very therapeutic. I wholeheartedly believe that writing for our personal well-being is the cheapest therapy one can find, but I know few, even in my own life, who practice this.
Victoria Volk
00:21:45 – 00:21:56
How did that feel? Pretty raw, I imagine. It’s painful to reflect in our pains. I get that. Truly, this is an exercise in acknowledgment.
Victoria Volk
00:21:57 – 00:22:41
Taking inventory of the emotional baggage weighing us down day in and day out gives us a clearer picture of where we are emotionally right now. This inevitably aids you in figuring out where you would rather be. And that my friends concludes the excerpt from my book, and if you would like to read more or learn more, you can head to my website, the unleashedheart.com., There is a link to it in the show notes, and I’ll also link to the book on Amazon there as well. And if you find as you go through that little exercise towards the end of this episode that you’re not okay, which is okay, by the way.
Victoria Volk
00:22:42 – 00:23:22
But if you’re not okay, and you know you want to be for the long term, there is support, and I hope that if this is your first time listening to my podcast, that maybe you’re learning about what I can offer for the first time and so there is a service that I offer. There’s a program. It’s called Do Grief Differently. We walk through 2 emotionally difficult challenging relationships of your life, and it’s a 12-week program. And I tell you what, you will learn more about yourself and about grief because it is as very much an educational program as it is a therapeutic one.
Victoria Volk
00:23:22 – 00:24:02
Even though it’s not therapy, it’s very therapeutic. But I’m there with you, guiding you and facilitating the deep work that so many people talk about, like, you just have to do the work. This is the work. And just it’s my job to create a safe space for you to release and to let go and to move forward with a different perspective, with new knowledge, new tools that you carry with you for the rest of your life. And so if that resonates with you, I encourage you to check out my website.
Victoria Volk
00:24:02 – 00:24:36
Again, the link will be in the show notes, and I’ll also link to Do Grief Differently in the show notes as well. So thank you so much for your time and listening today. I hope this, resonated with something in your heart and that little exercise helped bring to light, something that’s lingering within you. That’s just really wanting to come out, and know that there is support. You’re not alone, and there is hope.
Victoria Volk
00:24:37 – 00:24:43
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Educational, Emotions, Grief Tips, Grieving Voices Podcast, Pespective, Podcast, solo episode |
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
Today’s episode of GrievingVoices takes a deep dive into the complex emotion of anger, especially for us Human Design Manifestor-types navigating loss and trauma. I open up about my battle with anger following life’s curveballs and how it can be misunderstood or mishandled.
As someone who has walked through the fire of personal loss and trauma, I’ve learned firsthand how anger can be both destructive and transformative. It’s not just an outburst; it’s a signal calling us to introspection.
Why does this affect me so deeply?
What boundaries have been crossed?
Many turn to short-term fixes or STERBs (short-term energy-relieving behaviors) like anger to cope with grief. But these are merely band-aids on deeper emotional wounds. The key lies in processing anger constructively. This isn’t about suppressing emotions but rather understanding them—identifying what needs protection or restoration within ourselves before we react impulsively.
Key Takeaways:
-Anger should prompt introspection rather than projection onto others.
-Short-term coping mechanisms like STERBs provide temporary relief but do not address underlying emotional pain.
– Constructive processing of anger involves self-protection and restoration efforts.
– Emotional intelligence grows through understanding our reactions and setting healthy boundaries.
Establishing clear boundaries emerged as another critical theme. The absence of boundary-setting skills during childhood can lead to adult challenges such as unchecked anger. To navigate this complex terrain, the book “Boundaries” is recommended for those seeking guidance on creating and implementing boundaries.
Engagement with our emotions in real-time fosters balance and wellness. Tools like visualization and mindful breathing are practical strategies for dissipating anger without confrontation. We pave the way toward transformative life changes by embracing self-awareness and actively managing our emotions.
Join me in embracing self-awareness and mastering emotional management as pathways toward transforming our lives after loss.
RESOURCES:
Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive one month free with a 3-month subscription. This special promotion is only for January!
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- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
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If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
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Navigating the Stormy Seas of Grief: Understanding and Managing Anger
Grief is an ocean of emotion, vast and unpredictable. For many who have lost a loved one or experienced significant life changes, anger can be a tempestuous wave that crashes over them without warning. On today’s episode of “Grieving Voices,” hosted by myself from theunleashedheart.com, I delve deep into this fiery aspect of grief.
As not an only advanced grief recovery method specialist but also as someone who has weathered my own storms of loss. With over three decades under my belt navigating personal grieving experiences—including the loss of my father—I bring both professional insight and heartfelt empathy to our discussion on dealing with anger in grief.
Why Does Anger Manifest in Grief?
Anger during grief often arises from a place within us that feels violated; it may stem from feelings of injustice or powerlessness following a loss. It’s important to recognize that anger isn’t inherently negative—it’s a natural response to pain and can signal areas where we require healing or change.
However, when misunderstood or repressed, anger becomes unhealthy. It festers like an untreated wound, leading potentially to bitterness or even physical ailments due to the stress it imposes on our bodies.
The Pitfalls of Short-Term Energy Relieving Behaviors (STERBs)
In trying times, grievers might turn towards behaviors such as outbursts of rage—or STERBs—to momentarily alleviate their suffering. While these actions might offer temporary solace by releasing pent-up energy, they do little for long-term emotional well-being.
The real challenge lies in confronting what remains emotionally unresolved within us—the core issues beneath the surface-level expressions of distress—and addressing those directly.
Establishing Healthy Boundaries
A key factor contributing to feelings like resentment is poor boundary setting—a topic all too familiar for many individuals brought up without an understanding of healthy personal limits. Without clear boundaries, you may find yourself slipping into roles that don’t serve you well: becoming overly accommodating at your expense (people-pleasing) or struggling with asserting your needs effectively (difficulty saying no).
For those eager to learn more about establishing healthier interpersonal dynamics—which can significantly reduce instances where anger stems from feeling taken advantage of—I recommend reading the book *Boundaries* which provides profound insights into this critical skill set for maintaining emotional health.
Embracing Your Emotional Compass
As we wrap up today’s conversation on “Grieving Voices,” remember that each emotion carries its message—one worth listening to if we are brave enough to face it head-on. Whether through acknowledging our hurt openly instead of masking it behind aggression or learning how to better manage stressful situations using tools like Magic Mind—we must strive toward understanding ourselves deeper.
In facing these challenging emotions related specifically to sadness & fury associated with w/losses big & small alike, let’s take heart in my closing mantra: Unleash your heart so you may unleash your life! Share this podcast episode if it resonates with you & continue spreading compassion simply by being “a heart with ears.”
Episode Transcription:
Victoria Volk
00:01:29 – 00:01:51
Hello friends. Welcome to another episode of Grieving Voices if you’ve been listening all along. Today is episode 179, and that seems crazy to say.
Victoria Volk
00:01:51 – 00:02:16
This is the 179th time that I’m sitting down to record for you. And what a blessing and what a ride it’s been, and so thank you for being here. And if this is your first time listening, I hope you come back for another episode. Today, I wanna talk about anger. And the question is, that a lot of grievers have.
Victoria Volk
00:02:18 – 00:03:19
It’s something that I’ve personally struggled with a lot of my life. And, you know, in learning about human design and being a manifestor, our not self theme as a manifestor is anger. And so every time, you know, when I reflect on my past and my life up to this point, there’s a lot of moments where I can distinctly remember where my anger got the best of me. And particularly with a grieving experience, you know, after my dad had passed away and then being molested, a year later and subsequently, later after that, I was holding a lot of anger in my body. There was no way for me to channel it.
Victoria Volk
00:03:19 – 00:03:47
And actually, it wasn’t really an emotion that I learned was healthy. You know, so many of us grew up in homes where anger is expressed but yet we’re shamed for it or, it’s like something to keep to yourself. Right?, like, it’s, you know, don’t express it to other people because, I mean, it’s hurt it can be hurtful too. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:03:47 – 00:04:46
Like anger projected onto other people can Inflict emotional wounds on others. We can be very, what’s the word? Victimizing of others with our anger, and also, we’re also suffering when we do that because I believe that we are all sparks of love and light, and, you know, we come into this world in love, and I believe we go out of this world in love and so I would say anger is a not love theme too for all of us, but it’s there to serve a purpose, I believe, as well. Anger shows us where we have some work to do on ourselves. Not where other people need to work on themselves or where other people need to heal something within us.
Victoria Volk
00:04:47 – 00:05:30
I think when anger comes up, it is like a stop sign like, woah, hold the bus. Why is this upsetting me? Why do I feel activated by you or this conversation or this thing you did or the feelings that I’m feeling, why am I feeling fired up inside? Why am I feeling passionate about this that, you know, it can come up as anger too when we feel like this injustice is being done or I mean, there’s plenty of that around the world right now, and we can feel angry about it. We can feel angry at God for the suffering that we experience in our lives, like I was for many years.
Victoria Volk
00:05:32 – 00:06:03
Why would God allow such, you know, things to happen. Why would God take a young child’s parent away? Why would God allow sexual abuse of children. There’s so many questions that come up within our grief and our trauma, and the anger can be so overwhelming and all consuming. We have nowhere to put it.
Victoria Volk
00:06:03 – 00:06:52
We don’t know what to do with it. And I can’t talk about anger without talking about STERBS or short term energy relieving behaviors, which is what we call them in grief recovery. These are things that we do as gravers to relieve or dispel this overwhelming build up of emotional energy that is caused by the death of a person for whom we are grieving or something someone did to us. And the problem with STERBs is that that’s their short-term. There’s no long-term relief when we just use up energy to distract ourselves from our pain.
Victoria Volk
00:06:53 – 00:07:23
It doesn’t make the pain go away. And one of the most common short-term relievers is anger. And the problem with anger is that you can never finish or complete it. It’s like this key it keeps looping like a hamster on a wheel. And the more time you spend using your energy to express the anger, you know, and lashing out to the other person or even taking it to the gym.
Victoria Volk
00:07:23 – 00:08:08
Right?, And just was going to town on a on a punching bag, the less time you spend on what would help you discover and resolve what was left emotionally unfinished for you, either by the death of a loved one or by not addressing what is really at the crux of whatever loss it is that you experienced. And the other issues, with STERBS, we can, you know, related to sterbs and anger is, you know, we want we wanna get rid of that anger. We don’t know what to do with it. We wanna get rid of it, but so what we do is we just kind of attempt to disassociate ourselves from it.
Victoria Volk
00:08:08 – 00:08:44
Like, I just need to get away from the situation. I just need to try and forget about it. And so we start, we might actually slip into these other these other emotions come into play. Right? And then we can feel depressed about where we are in our situation, and we might be sleeping more and spending endless hours watching TV or reading novels that help us escape from our day to day lives and our emotions that we’re experiencing such as strong emotions of anger and, of course, grief.
Victoria Volk
00:08:45 – 00:09:33
But those nonaction activities do nothing to help you discover and complete what is emotionally unfinished for you? It’s with action that you can turn things around. Being able to find the language and articulate what it is that you are angry about. And often, so often, anger shows us, and doing the the steps of grief recovery show us where we don’t have boundaries or where a boundary has been violated. Before we get on the topic of boundaries, I have a shout-out for my sponsor of this episode, Magic Mind.
Victoria Volk
00:09:33 – 00:10:15
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Victoria Volk
00:10:16 – 00:10:40
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Victoria Volk
00:10:41 – 00:11:15
You get 1 month for free when you subscribe for 3 months at the go to the website, magicmind.com/jangrievingvoices. That’s magicmind.com/jangrievingvoices and use my code grieving voices, and that gets you an extra 20% off, which gets you to a total of 75% off. And remember, this only lasts until the end of January, so hurry up before this offer goes away. And I hope that you find it just as useful for you as I have in my morning routine. Alright.
Victoria Volk
00:11:15 – 00:11:52
Back to the episode and talking about boundaries. Alright. So far, we’ve talked about anger as being a stirr up, a short-term energy relieving behavior. And I’ve mentioned how when anger arises within ourselves and we feel it coming up in our body and rising up, it’s usually in response to something someone did or something someone said or something that we’re really activated by. It could be something even we’re passionate about, maybe even in injustice in the world, and when we feel this coming up within us, it’s coming up for to be in within our awareness.
Victoria Volk
00:11:53 – 00:13:31
And, really, the question we could be asking ourselves when we are feeling anger is, a, what must be protected, and b, What must be restored? These are two questions you can ask yourself when you’re feeling activated with anger. And you can choose to either respond to the other person if they’ve said or done something towards you, but really that’s not going to resolve anything that will probably make that other person just feel defensive and, you know, unless they’re emotionally intelligent and have worked so much on themselves and have addressed so much anger in their life, they’re likely to respond like most of society would respond, and that would be in a defensive pattern, with probably more anger back towards you. And then not only is it something that you’re angry about what they just said or did, but now It’s even severed that relationship or hindered or wounded that relationship even more. So we deepen these wounds when we don’t stop long enough to think about and have some introspection about why we’re angry and what is it that is bringing up so much disease within us, this fiery response that we feel in every cell of our our bodies that, you know, we feel like we just gotta punch something or we want to we have to like we have to do something with this activated energy.
Victoria Volk
00:13:32 – 00:14:24
And so we can either move it physically or you can move it with your mind. Right?, like, energetically. Like, I’ve learned a lot about this just in the energetics of emotions and The energy healing work that I’ve been doing and for my personal my own personal emotional hygiene is we can our minds are amazing, miraculous things and a tool that is sorely underestimated, but because we give it so much power that in circumstances like these when we’re feeling angry and it’s like poop, the monkey mind just takes over and we have this initial response and we don’t pause long enough to and we don’t pause long enough to check-in with our emotional body. And it is our emotional body responding to, like I said, these a boundary or something that needs to be protected or something that needs to be restored.
Victoria Volk
00:14:24 – 00:15:15
And so asking ourselves those questions can lead us to better answers. And so if you want to you can either physically move that energy with your mind or your body and then through your breath, which is underestimated as well. Like, we can you can take your your mind through this mental process of putting imagine when you feel activated by someone or something, imagine this fiery energy just surrounding you. Feel feel imagine yourself as like this flame and allowing it to intensify, allowing those emotions to intensify this flame that you’re feeling, it seems counterintuitive, but just stay with me. So you feel this energy building up and this the fire within you and this boundary fire.
Victoria Volk
00:15:15 – 00:15:31
Right? Like, it let’s let’s think of it as active energy. Right? Because again, what needs to be protected? There’s something within you that is being activated because there’s a boundary being dishonored in some way.
Victoria Volk
00:15:31 – 00:15:52
You know, maybe it was you’re bound you’re maybe you value honesty, and this person just lied to you. That’s gonna activate some anger within you, don’t you think? Like, if that’s a real high value for you. And the thing is honesty, and we talk about this in Youmap when we talk about values. Honesty is a reciprocal value.
Victoria Volk
00:15:52 – 00:16:20
We expect that other people are going to be honest. It’s a typical reciprocal value, and so when others aren’t honest with us, we get activated with anger. And so a response to that could be not spewing anger back at the person, but taking that energy and letting it just kinda rise up within you, see your energy field putting up this protective. This protective wall. Not a wall.
Victoria Volk
00:16:22 – 00:16:46
Barrier. We’ll call it a barrier. Protective barrier around you. And see that energy building up, and then you can do it in your mind, or you can really walk away from the situation and do this or reflect on it later and do this on the situation. But through your breath, put out that fire.
Victoria Volk
00:16:46 – 00:17:08
Like, imagine you’re, like, spitting water on this fire, And you can literally dissolve that anger that you felt in that moment that is built up within you, that you’re feeling this energy. Put it out with your breath, but imagine that breath as water because what does oxygen do? It stokes a fire. Right? We wanna put it out.
Victoria Volk
00:17:08 – 00:17:53
So imagine you’re just blowing water onto this fire, this flame. It’s crazy how these visualizations can shift your energetic body in a matter of moments. The mind is so capable that we underestimate it so much. A visual I use a lot of visualizations in the energy work that I do just because it helps people connect to a part of themselves they don’t normally connect to. We just don’t take that, and that’s where meditation is huge in disconnecting, you know, our monkey mind from our body and tapping into the body and tapping into the emotional body.
Victoria Volk
00:17:54 – 00:18:48
So then after we’ve done this, we can then recognize what are the boundaries that were being violated we’re dishonored. I think it’s so hard for people to articulate what their boundaries are because so many of us grew up without our autonomy, without our boundaries being respected, for example, let’s say you’re at a family function. Let’s say when you were a kid, you’re at a family function, and I see this I’ve seen this myself a lot. And at first, I did this when my kids were young too. Oh, give so and so a hug, or let grandma give you a hug and kiss on the cheek, or whatever the case was, and they didn’t want that physical touch in that moment and said no, or I don’t want to give grandma a hug, or I don’t want to give my uncle a hug, or aunt, or whoever it is, it doesn’t matter.
Victoria Volk
00:18:49 – 00:19:15
And the child says no, and the parent dishonors that no, and makes them do that anyway, that is a violation of a boundary that a child had and where their no wasn’t respected. Now if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my gosh. This happened to me all the time Think about if you’re a parent, have you done this? Like, this is something we learn.
Victoria Volk
00:19:15 – 00:19:50
Right? This is a pattern that we continue through time, but we don’t think of these things as laying a foundation of not respecting our own boundaries. So then you become an adult who becomes a people pleaser to make others so others feel better. So it’s almost as if, well, go give grandma a hug now because she’ll feel better. She’ll be happier, regardless of how you feel about it.
Victoria Volk
00:19:50 – 00:20:21
Now how does this translate as an adult? Saying yes when you mean no. It’s a violation of your own boundary of protecting your personal space. And sometimes you might feel just fine giving the hug or showing the other person affection, but maybe there’s a moment where you don’t. The last thing anybody wants is to be forced to do so and to not have our no respected.
Victoria Volk
00:20:22 – 00:21:21
And so then when you think about sexual abuse or things like that, well, that’s a definite violation of personal space and safety and all of these other things that create these traumatic emotional wounds around boundaries. So many of us don’t wouldn’t know a boundary if it slapped us in the face. And then when we have others in our lives who start having this awareness around boundaries, who know themselves well, and who know their needs and desires and where they draw the line well and start implementing boundaries to others and communicating those, what do you think people are met with boundaries? Or when it’s perceived as well, what’s this change about? Like, what when you start Implementing boundaries in your life?
Victoria Volk
00:21:21 – 00:21:30
You’re gonna have people that are gonna be activated by that. Right? You’re changed. There’s something different. I don’t like this.
Victoria Volk
00:21:31 – 00:21:58
Why aren’t you letting me walk all over you like you used to? Right? I used to be able to control you, and now, you have these boundaries and now you’re standing up for yourself and I don’t know what to do with this. This makes me angry. So we can meet anger too just by creating boundaries, and how are we gonna be prepared for that?
Victoria Volk
00:21:59 – 00:22:42
When it comes to boundaries, I highly recommend The book “Boundaries”, I’ve actually it’s been several years since I’ve read it, but, I think I’m going to actually, read it again. I actually, I read it after I went through grief recovery. Because like I said, it’s a great follow-up to grief recovery because you realize in grief recovery where you did not have boundaries and where your parents did not teach you about boundaries because, you know, they probably didn’t even have their own. Right? It’s like, you know, parents with a date night if parents never have a date night, and they’re always with their children 247.
Victoria Volk
00:22:42 – 00:22:55
And then, all of a sudden, they decide they’re gonna have a date night. What do you think that child’s gonna feel? Maybe some anger? Maybe some abandonment. Like, why are you doing this now?
Victoria Volk
00:22:55 – 00:23:14
I want you to stay with me. You’ve always been with me. Now all of a sudden you’re gonna go out and you’re gonna spend time alone, and I’m gonna be here by myself or with this babysitter, and it’s probably gonna bring him some anger. But that’s a good thing. This is how we learn how to work with our emotions, that all emotions are valid.
Victoria Volk
00:23:14 – 00:23:49
So it’s not to say to the child, well, there’s nothing to be angry about, and dismiss the anger. Rather, explain to the child about boundaries. Rather, teach the child how to breathe through their anger, how to channel it physically or, you know, with their breath or physically with their body to rid themselves of that energy. These are practical things that we just are never taught in school. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:23:49 – 00:24:11
About boundaries, about anger, about our emotions. I mean, we are so complex when it comes to our emotions. This stuff isn’t taught in school. So I hope you check into the resource, the book boundaries. It has a little bit of a Christian spin, but it’s not like shoved down your throat or anything.
Victoria Volk
00:24:12 – 00:25:28
But I hope you check out that book Boundaries., I will link to it in the show notes. And Just one final thought about anger is that and just like grief, you cannot relate to another person, if you don’t know who you are or where you began and that other person ends, just as you cannot nurture peace or honor the needs of others until you understand and meet your own needs. And that relates to anger, that relates to grief, and that relates to just any emotion that you’re experiencing and the boundaries that you may or may not have. And I think that’s been I think that’s one of my missions too, along with changing the conversation around grief and talking about it like we talk about the weather is the mission of knowing yourself, understanding yourself, and putting yourself in the way of resources and people and tools and maybe guides or therapists or modalities that can get you closer to knowing yourself, identifying your emotional climate when it comes up, whether it be, well, this is grief, or this is anger, and what do you do with it?
Victoria Volk
00:25:28 – 00:25:54
You know, you can run away from it. It’s gonna come up eventually, or you can just you can face it. You can address it, and you can do something about it. So it doesn’t impact your life moving forward, because how many times have you had an anger outburst or an interaction with somebody that it left you feeling angry after. And you’re thinking about it days later.
Victoria Volk
00:25:54 – 00:26:19
Days later. That’s no good for you. That’s no good for anybody. You know, so then you have these this emotional incompleteness with this other person now, and it’s almost like this contract of anger that you have with this person, and I’m here to say that you can blow that up. You can do something about it without having to confront them.
Victoria Volk
00:26:20 – 00:26:35
And you can do it with your mind. You can do it with visualization. You can do it with writing and burn it. There are ways we can physically move through the emotions that are there for a reason. They are there communicating with you.
Victoria Volk
00:26:35 – 00:27:12
It is your body communicating with you, whether it’s grief, whether it’s anger, joy, sadness, everything in between. There are resource resources out there. You just gotta look for them and be open to learning. And that’s what I will leave you with today. I hope you are curious now about the book “Boundaries” and about what boundaries might you not have and might you need and learning more about, you know, really just emotional equilibrium.
Victoria Volk
00:27:13 – 00:27:56
Right? It’s not about stuffing down, controlling, or disregarding or minimizing or running away from, you know, we faith when you face this stuff as it arises, not like, oh, I’ll deal with that later once I get this, that, and the other thing done, or I’ll deal with that later once I just sit down and have a drink. That’s not gonna help you, my friend. Your mind is a miraculous tool and a thing that I think most of us waste in a lot of ways. So, yeah, I’m just sharing some things that I’ve learned along the way, and I hope you find it helpful.
Victoria Volk
00:27:56 – 00:28:25
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.
Emotions, Energy, Grieving Voices Guest, Grieving Voices Podcast, Miscarriage, Parenting, Podcast, Pregnancy & Infant Loss |
Mandy Capehart | The Integration of Grief and Restoration of Self
SHOW NOTES SUMMARY:
In this week’s heartfelt episode, we dive into the complexities of grief with my special guest, Mandy Capehart – a trauma-informed certified grief educator and somatic embodiment life coach.
Mandy shares her journey through grief, which led her to establish the Restorative Grief Project, an online community dedicated to supporting grievers and those who stand by them. Her book, “Restorative Grief: Embracing Our Losses Without Losing Ourselves,” is a blend of memoir and practical guidebook that offers insight into managing loss.
We touch on topics like:
- The universality of experiencing loss
- Moving beyond minimizing pain
- Navigating uncertainty in times of sorrow
- How our upbringing shapes our understanding of grief
Mandy also delves into how COVID-19 has highlighted the need for greater ‘grief literacy’ – acknowledging that you don’t need death as a reason to grieve. She emphasizes validating experiences rather than dismissing them and discusses how she uses storytelling as a tool for connection and healing.
Moreover, Mandy opens up about personal losses such as miscarriages, providing raw insights into the emotional turmoil they entail while calling out common misconceptions surrounding them.
This episode is not just about dealing with grief but learning from it, embracing vulnerability, and engaging in deeper conversations instead of hiding behind social niceties or sugarcoated interactions.
This conversation provides solace and guidance for anyone grappling with loss or seeking ways to support others in their grieving process.
Key Takeaway:
Grief isn’t solely triggered by death; it encompasses various forms of personal loss and change. The conversation challenges us to confront cultural tendencies that often minimize these experiences or avoid deep discussions.
Mandy’s insights remind us that grieving is not just an emotional process but one that touches every fiber of our being – physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Your story matters. Your pain deserves recognition. And together, we can find pathways toward restoration.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
Episode Sponsor: Magic Mind | Use the code “GRIEVINGVOICES” to receive one month free with a 3-month subscription. This special promotion is only for January!
_______
NEED HELP?
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
- Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor
If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
Victoria Volk
00:00:00 – 00:00:16
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices., If this is your first time listening, welcome., And if you are returning and listening again, thank you for coming back. Today, my guest is Mandy Capehart. She is a trauma-informed certified grief educator and somatic embodiment life coach.
Victoria Volk
00:00:17 – 00:00:47
She’s an author, speaker, and master mindset coach located in the Pacific Northwest. She is the founder of the Restorative Grief Project, an online community of grievers and grief supporters looking for movement while they heal. Her own experience with grief left her searching for resources while offering empathetic long term support without minimizing the pain of the moment. When she found nothing, she created it for herself and for you. Her first book is Titled Restorative Grief, Embracing Our Losses Without Losing Ourselves was released in 2021.
Victoria Volk
00:00:48 – 00:01:19
And this is a memoir and a 31-day guidebook for managing grief and growth in the aftermath of loss, no matter how long it lasts. You can hear more about her work on her podcast, Restorative Grief with Mandy Capehart, or consider working with her 1 on 1 on her website. She has all the resources and I will put those links in the show notes. And she’s a storyteller through and through and always in pursuit of adventure, grace, and opportunities to express gratitude. No matter the medium, her work revolves around learning how to honor our process of becoming.
Victoria Volk
00:01:19 – 00:01:29
She currently lives in Southern Oregon with her husband, daughter, Border Collie Rescue Pup and way too many houseplants. Thank you so much for being here. I too have way too many houseplants. I am told.
Mandy Capehart
00:01:29 – 00:01:43
I know., Right. I mean, I loved houseplants before the pandemic, but it was an easy hobby for me. I think I was up to, like, 95 at one point before I just said, this is a problem. I don’t wanna just let these die, but I also don’t know what to do.
Mandy Capehart
00:01:43 – 00:01:51
And so we’re down to probably a solid 40 now. We’ve recovered. They didn’t die. They were lovingly rehomed, but yeah,
Victoria Volk
00:01:51 – 00:02:05
I have not counted mine, but I know it’s not 40, but I went from like 0 to just kind of like an obsession. I just kept buying and kept buying. Oh, I need another plant. I need another plant.
Mandy Capehart
00:02:05 – 00:02:24
Well, we needed the dopamine. We needed the immediate gratification of something beautiful in our home. We can justify it because plants clarify the air and there are so many collect. It’s like, you know, us elder millennials are, like, barely on the cusp of when Pokemon was, like, practically Introduced. We gotta catch them all.
Mandy Capehart
00:02:24 – 00:02:31
We have to collect every variety of Echeveria that exists. And until then, I will not be satisfied.
Victoria Volk
00:02:32 – 00:02:35
I know it’s like people walk in, welcome to the jungle.
Mandy Capehart
00:02:35 – 00:02:39
Yeah, exactly. It was very, humid in our home for a while.
Victoria Volk
00:02:40 – 00:02:53
I bet. But you know what?, Like you said, it puts oxygen in the air. And when especially living in, like, a rainy climate like yourself or like a snowy cold climate like I where I live and dry. I need all the nature inside.
Mandy Capehart
00:02:53 – 00:02:56
I can get everything I can. Yes. That’s right.
Victoria Volk
00:02:57 – 00:03:18
So we’re not talking about houseplants today. But if we were I’m sure there’s a podcast for that there’s a podcast for everything. That’s right. But today we’re talking about grief, which fortunately for you and I is becoming much more talked about and the work that we were doing. And I think COVID but a huge spotlight on that for everybody.
Victoria Volk
00:03:19 – 00:03:44
Like, hey, nobody has to die for you to grieve. Right? And so I guess let’s, I really want to start out with kind of your origin story as to what led you into the work that you’re doing today, because I know firsthand for myself and everyone that I’ve talked to on this podcast for every guest I’ve had, their work is really born out of their story. So where would you like to begin?
Mandy Capehart
00:03:45 – 00:04:35
Yeah, we’ve got this legacy as wounded healers. And when we get to that
point of recognizing where the needle moved for us, we can start to develop a way to, offer it to others. And so for me, I don’t remember a time in my life that I didn’t have some form of grief event, whether it was a person dying, a person moving away, divorce, relationship loss, illness. There was always something or someone leaving my world, my circle of influence. And so I, as a young person, did what we all do and stuffed it down and became very outwardly loud and big and vivacious and tried to live a very happy, playful life because I didn’t have the tools to navigate the loss I was experiencing.
Mandy Capehart
00:04:35 – 00:05:08
And that’s not to say that my parents didn’t know what they were doing because in a lot of ways they did, but at the same time, they were also very young when they had me. And so as we all experienced these losses together, including their, divorce when I was pretty young, I think I was 9. It doesn’t It just didn’t translate until I was older. And so, instead of giving you a list all the people I’ve lost in stories, I’m just gonna jump ahead because when my mom died in 2016, this month, it’ll be 7 years, I think. That right?
Mandy Capehart
00:05:08 – 00:05:30
Good math. It was pretty sudden. It was after after a few months of cancer treatment and unexpected, illness on top of that. And so I spent the next 4 years quitting everything I knew. I stepped down from being a worship leader of 16 years at my church.
Mandy Capehart
00:05:30 – 00:06:15
I pulled away from the career, I almost became a youth pastor so that I could move closer to being near her. It would have been the absolute worst position for me and all the children would have like perished under my anger because I was in so much pain, but I was willing to do anything to try and get close to her while she was going through, treatment. And I’m very grateful that didn’t happen. But I realized in 2020 when January started, I was starting the year with a miscarriage with the anniversary of losing my mom with a job loss and with a former employer, spreading gossip about me. And so I was in, like, trauma city all by myself.
Mandy Capehart
00:06:15 – 00:06:32
And then I’m starting to hear on the news about COVID and pandemics, and I became really guarded and angry about it. Like, hey, guys. 2020 is my year to have a mess. Everybody get it together. And in March, when our school shut down and I lost another job, I realized this is not the world I can live in.
Mandy Capehart
00:06:32 – 00:07:17
I cannot live in a world where there are going to be generations of untended grief and a complete lack of understanding and brief literacy. So I started writing my story down. That was where the book came from, over the course of a couple months, I just went through everything that I had experienced that was encouraging and positive to me, both within the of my faith and without it looking for pathways forward that were relatable to others, that could be relatable. Not just like this is what worked for me. So it will work for you, but creating more of an invitation into exploring what might be possible through these different methods of approaching our grief and ourselves differently.
Mandy Capehart
00:07:17 – 00:08:02
And as the book was finished, there was a wildfire in our town that destroyed 25100 homes. So I got firsthand an opportunity to not only share this work of my heart and to connect with people I knew who lost their homes and were now survivors of this wildfire. There were 3 people who died as well, but I also took that into this idea of what if I became a coach around the idea of what it means to grieve and to survive. And so I took my my personal background, my educational background, and poured it all into this, practice that I’ve built. And it just has transformed everything I expected my life to become.
Mandy Capehart
00:08:02 – 00:08:09
I always knew I’d be a writer. Right? We always have those threads. I always knew I’d be a writer. I’m very, people driven.
Mandy Capehart
00:08:09 – 00:08:29
So I always knew I’d be working with people. I never expected that I’d be working as a grief and trauma educator, showing up for people in their worst moments and sitting with them through the enormity of it. So that’s my quickest way to describe why I decided grief and death were the things I wanted to talk about all day long.
Victoria Volk
00:08:30 – 00:08:38
Kind of similar to my story. Started very young. How old were you when you had your first loss that you can recall?
Mandy Capehart
00:08:42 – 00:08:58
I mean, I was probably that I can recall would be my great grandmother. My grandparents are all I mean, every generation is at 10, 20 years, 19 to 20 years of each other. So I knew all of my great grandparents., Wow. And a couple of my great great grandparents.
Mandy Capehart
00:09:00 – 00:09:16
Wow. I’m sorry. It was my great great grandmother, Selma, who died when I was 3. And I have memories of sitting in her kitchen and being with her and having her read to me. And that I would say that would probably be the earliest loss I can recall.
Mandy Capehart
00:09:16 – 00:09:23
And at that age, what do you know? You’re 3 and great grandma great great grandma’s almost just not around anymore. We don’t have framework for it. But,
Victoria Volk
00:09:25 – 00:09:37
Yeah. Do you know what’s fascinating though? By age 3, we have learned 75% of our of our awarenesses of how to respond to life.
Mandy Capehart
00:09:37 – 00:09:40
Right? It’s wild. Like it’s in there’s
Victoria Volk
00:09:40 – 00:09:53
no conscious, conscious recollection and hindsight about that. But yeah. By that, we’re sponges. So how young were your parents when they had you?
Mandy Capehart
00:09:53 – 00:10:00
I think my mom was 20, 21. My dad was 24. Sounds right.
Victoria Volk
00:10:01 – 00:10:06
And you knew your great, great grandparents? Yeah. Wow. That’s fascinating. Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:10:06 – 00:10:07
Incredible, really.
Mandy Capehart
00:10:07 – 00:10:24
Yeah, I mean, my grandmother is in her eighties now and consistent. Like we’ve stopped correcting people. That is my mom. We just don’t correct anyone because people assume it is my mom because the age range makes sense.
Mandy Capehart
00:10:24 – 00:10:31
Right? And with my aunts, people assume that we’re sisters and I’m just like, you can have it. Take it. Like, sure. We’re sisters.
Mandy Capehart
00:10:31 – 00:10:41
It doesn’t bother me. It’s who cares? But it’s interesting the way that we perceive age gaps. That’s a whole other conversation, but anyway. Yeah.
Mandy Capehart
00:10:41 – 00:10:42
Young family.
Victoria Volk
00:10:42 – 00:10:58
What did you find yourself saying the most during COVID, to others? What was the story that was playing in your head over and over as you were kind of reflecting on your losses, as you’re writing your book, as you were working with other grievers and talking to other grievers.
Mandy Capehart
00:10:59 – 00:11:55
Yeah. I think a lot of what I experienced personally and also in the stories of others was this pain around being minimized and dismissed. So in my immediate family, I have an immune disorder in our family. And so we were really guarded and absolutely afraid of the unknown and the uncertainty of this pandemic and what would be happening. And we did lose people that we knew and where I would support others and be working with people around the fear of that was invalidating was through validating the stories that they were telling as well and through validating their experiences and helping them to validate and not minimize the enormity of their experiences, their emotions, their sensations in their body, like we as a people, and maybe just this is western culture.
Mandy Capehart
00:11:55 – 00:12:39
I don’t know. Became so quick to justify and minimize our responses for survival so
we could socially still belong or mentally not cave under the pressure of choosing all of these black and white dichotomous opportunities that were handed to us. I feel like there was so much of you’re either with me or you’re against me and, and that in and of itself is a distorted way of thinking, but it’s also such an eliminator of that gray space, that grief exists within. Right? We cannot navigate grief without recognizing it is all gray space.
Mandy Capehart
00:12:39 – 00:13:13
There really is no black and white. And so when I would come up against those black and white thinking patterns in clients and in friends and family members. It was an exercise in, do I wanna do this for a long period of time or is this just the COVID reaction to losing my job and having to pivot and having zero certainty for the foreseeable future. And so it really transformed into this understanding of, oh, no, certainty is the lie. Certainty is the addiction.
Mandy Capehart
00:13:13 – 00:13:32
What does that look like then as a griever and even as a grief professional to help individuals not minimize their fear of certainty or their fear of a lack of certainty, and come to embrace uncertainty and all of its beauty and all of its gray space and all of its opportunity, to find healing.
Victoria Volk
00:13:33 – 00:13:51
What were the lessons that you were taught about grief as you grew up within your family? Like, how did how did that because you had a lot of grief in your life growing up. Yeah. How was that shaped your belief before you knew now what you know. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:13:53 – 00:13:57
Like, what were you taught about grief and how to grieve?
Mandy Capehart
00:13:57 – 00:14:09
You know, not a lot. I think and keeping in mind, like, this is the early nineties. Right? Late eighties, early nineties. We, weren’t necessarily stiff upper lip people.
Mandy Capehart
00:14:10 – 00:14:21
We were very strong back. We can do this, push through it. There’s always a solution. You’ll figure it out. Just keep going kind of people.
Mandy Capehart
00:14:21 – 00:15:05
My dad still to this day says work smart, not hard. And so as a young griever, I can I translated that to It’s hard to grieve, so I will work smart by not grieving and just truly minimize my own experience so that I can do the task in front of me? And I think that that’s a pretty, pretty expected and universal response to grieve as a child, I also think I was watching my parents grieve. And when I was a teenager, I remember having a distinct moment of deciding, oh, my parents are human. So I’m sitting back here angry with them, grieving everything that they’ve gone through, that they’ve put us through trying to survive this ongoing grief experiences that we’re having.
Mandy Capehart
00:15:05 – 00:15:31
And yet I have failed to see them as people as well who are at that time 30. And I think now to when I was 30 and realizing, oh my God, I was no one knew what they were doing. I was a mess at 30. Even for as much as I had figured out, I was a immature trying to just prove that I knew what I was doing and I was valuable in the world. What if my parents were in similar boats?
Mandy Capehart
00:15:31 – 00:16:14
And so I think even grandparents and extended family members had their own opinions about grief. And there were some very strong, religious influences on part of our family, which was, of course, a different layer to how people wanted to navigate grief or not navigated at all., But I feel like it just wasn’t really a conversation to the degree that when my mom died, that following she died right after Christmas, not following Christmas. I went back home for the holidays and remember thinking this is gonna be either a mess or the most restorative experience we could ever have together. Like this is a definitive Christmas gathering.
Mandy Capehart
00:16:14 – 00:16:28
What do I wanna do about it? What do I wanna bring to this family? So the first night I brought bourbon and I got everyone really sick and hungover the next day. And we all pretended we weren’t hungover, which was in retrospect, my favorite thing. We were just like, wow, I don’t feel good.
Mandy Capehart
00:16:28 – 00:16:40
What did we eat yesterday? And I was like, guys, we drank too much bourbon. I don’t know why that’s unclear. Why aren’t we admitting? But that was such a perfect example of like, oh, we’re all grieving as well, and we’re not admitting it.
Mandy Capehart
00:16:40 – 00:16:54
Okay, It opened it up so that I was able to say, hey, this whole denial thing is not serving us. We’ve tried for a year to survive on our own. It does not work. And so now I’m going to start asking you guys some really vulnerable questions.
Mandy Capehart
00:16:55 – 00:17:10
And even if it’s just for me, if you need to believe that you’re answering those questions so that I can heal. That’s fine. But don’t shut down. Don’t pull back. And so it’s really become this family that I mean, still still grieving.
Mandy Capehart
00:17:10 – 00:17:31
Like I said off air, I have an aunt who’s in the hospital right now for cancer and her daughter is in the hospital as well for some medical crisis, that she’s been navigating. And these are not simple, small things. These are not I had a wart removed operations. Right? It’s still a family unit where we can say, this is horrible.
Mandy Capehart
00:17:31 – 00:18:13
How do we survive this? How do we hold each other In the midst of the uncertainty of if we’ll survive it or not, if our family members will be okay. So I think that, lack of grief literacy kind of articulated in my childhood is a big part of why now, despite the discomfort, despite the, pushback I get when I bring it up in certain situations when people just wanna have a good time. I don’t care. I’ve seen the benefit of pushing into those uncomfortable places and teaching both myself and my nervous system, how to remain aligned and resting even amid what feels like a threat to my health and my mental stability.
Mandy Capehart
00:18:13 – 00:18:21
Grief can disrupt all of that. And yet it can also be the doorway into like binding restoration in that area as well.
Victoria Volk
00:18:21 – 00:19:02
The thing I heard you say in I’ll say it how I heard it is that there’s this deep desire to have deeper conversations instead of all that surface level stuff. And, I’ve even found myself, I’ll be out and about mingling in the bar or whatever with friends and I’ll say something and they’ll look at me like, okay. Yeah. That’s, that’s too depressing. They’re kind of like, to be not to be the Debbie downer, but it’s like, let’s, I have friends too where it’s like, I don’t I don’t even know what their dreams are.
Victoria Volk
00:19:02 – 00:19:08
Yeah. But I know if I ask them, it’s like, why are you asking me that? Like, they don’t want to talk about it. Like,
Mandy Capehart
00:19:08 – 00:19:33
Sure. You know, I think often whether they wanna talk about it or they don’t have an answer or they haven’t gotten through the the layer of, but what if it doesn’t workout. But what if I can’t the uncertainty. Right? They their relationship to uncertainty is directly impacted by their desire to control the outcome and control their experiences.
Mandy Capehart
00:19:33 – 00:19:57
And I think those uncomfortable conversations, those deeper conversations are sacred ground. We’re asking someone to step forward and be seen and be known and to not have the answers. And certainly, it’s a collective approach. Right? It’s collective healing that I’m inviting people into when I say, share your deepest, darkest moments with me.
Mandy Capehart
00:19:57 – 00:20:14
Tell me what you’re afraid of, because guess what? You’re not only totally valid and being afraid of that. I’m afraid of that too. But now what do we perceive each other to be less than or weak or an trustworthy? Like, I don’t know.
Mandy Capehart
00:20:14 – 00:20:50
I see that depth and that willingness to be seen as such a a flag of safety. My aunt the other day, a different aunt was telling me how this family member in the hospital is the strongest person that she knows and gave all this evidence. And I responded, it takes one to know one. And I say that because you lost my mom, your sister, you’ve experienced heartache after heartache. And here you are In person, caring for our family members that are in the hospital all by yourself.
Mandy Capehart
00:20:50 – 00:21:13
And while I would, if I could drop everything and come to you, our lives are very different and she has that ability. What does that what does it look like to be supported by me right now? Like, you don’t have to be so strong all the time too. And I think when we can finally tell people that you don’t have to be strong, like you don’t have to keep being strong. I personally hate it when someone’s like, oh my gosh, you’re so strong.
Mandy Capehart
00:21:13 – 00:21:32
And I was like, no. What you see, because you’re not safe for me to not be strong, is the strength. You see the backbone. The soft tender side of me is available to people who aren’t going to disrespect or diminish me. And to be honest, I show that side to a lot of people now, but when I was younger, not so much.
Mandy Capehart
00:21:32 – 00:21:59
And I think being able to just call that tenderness out in people toward themselves, right? Show yourself your tender side. Be honest with how much you’re carrying and let’s see if we can’t offload some of that weight simply by Identifying and addressing it and letting it move through our life and our story and our experiences. So it’s not Debbie Downer to me to bring up like deepest, darkest fears in the bar. That is the moment of vulnerability that I can say, hey.
Mandy Capehart
00:21:59 – 00:22:14
Your walls are down and you’re with safe people, If I’m not a safe person, probably don’t invite me to drinks again, because alcohol is gonna make you say and do things you don’t want me to remind you of the next day. Otherwise, I must be a safe person because I’m here. So let’s just be real. K?
Mandy Capehart
00:22:14 – 00:22:28
Because we’ve got limited time. We don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow. Tell me what should tell me what hurts. Let’s talk through it and just bear witness to each other in a way that we’ve been discouraged from doing.
Victoria Volk
00:22:29 – 00:22:38
Yeah. I made sugar cookies recently and I was just thinking, yep. Just like sugarcoating. Just it’s it’s that. I mean, it’s a terrible Yeah.
Victoria Volk
00:22:38 – 00:22:46
Literal sugar coating. That’s what we do. Right. And yeah, like you said, just to get real. Let’s get real.
Victoria Volk
00:22:47 – 00:23:03
I don’t want to gloss over something you said because, I feel like it’s an important lost to talk about because there’s not just you, it’s also your partner involved. But you had, shared that you had lost had a miscarriage.
Mandy Capehart
00:23:04 – 00:23:19
Oh, yeah. I actually don’t know how many miscarriages I’ve had. We got married pretty I was early twenties and our daughter was born when I was 30. And so we had years of infertility. We weren’t trying right away.
Mandy Capehart
00:23:19 – 00:23:51
But when we did start, just years of infertility and the undeniable pain that goes with that is when they come on and say like, oh, we’re not sure why everything about you is normal. I’m like, cool. Except that my body can’t do the one thing that like It was created to do okay. Like all of the uncertainty, every question and, anybody who’s ever experienced infertility knows immediately the question is like, what did I do wrong? What am I doing wrong?
Mandy Capehart
00:23:51 – 00:24:14
Is it because I did x y z. If there’s religious trauma on top of it, there’s all of that blame that comes along from a spiritual side as well. There was so much, built in. And then we so our daughter was born in, 2014 as a miracle. Like she was a surprise and I was terrified the entire pregnancy.
Mandy Capehart
00:24:15 – 00:24:25
And then a few years later, of course, in 2020, on New Year’s Eve, I knew I was pregnant. I looked at my husband. I’m like, I’m pregnant. And he’s like, really? Did you take a test?
Mandy Capehart
00:24:25 – 00:24:41
Are you kidding? That doesn’t make sense. How how do you know? And I was like, no, I just, I have a feeling. And I tested positive a couple of days later and started bleeding a couple of days after that and just sat with it because it was the one I knew about.
Mandy Capehart
00:24:41 – 00:25:23
It was the one I had a test, a positive, Oh my God. Is this really happening? Experience, especially 4 years after losing mom and realizing, like, the hope I had placed in that little pregnancy, it was interesting because I remember feeling very much, and this is similar to how I felt in the week after my mom died, feeling very much that, okay, I can safeguard and bear in mind. This is before I wrote my book or any of the like, started doing any of this work really professionally. I’ve been speaking publicly and leading a small, church in a bar for years up until then.
Mandy Capehart
00:25:23 – 00:26:28
But, and so I talked about loss and grief plenty of times, but this was really a moment where I again decided, okay, I can choose to numb myself and step away from the hope of ever having another baby from the fullness of what this means and what it doesn’t mean, or I can choose to really lean in to both the grief I’m going to experience from this and the stillness I need to heal because it is not a the misunderstanding of what a miscarriage does to a human body is so offensive is the best way I can put it. Like the lack of understanding people have about what actually happens and what you’re experiencing. I had to give myself a lot of permission to be tender and still, and unproductive. I’m extremely busy and productive when you were listing all the things in my bio was like, jeez, I have done so many things. Maybe it’s time to calm down a bit.
Mandy Capehart
00:26:28 – 00:26:44
But, anyway, the sensation even of having the pregnancy and knowing, oh, I’ve got untold number of miscarriages in my past. What do I do? Do I Dream. Do I hope? Do I pretend I’m not pregnant?
Mandy Capehart
00:26:45 – 00:27:02
Do I wait? Do I tell anyone? Do I panic? I chose hope I chose to lean in fully and say, I’m going to imagine our life with another baby. I’m going to lean fully in and completely invest.
Mandy Capehart
00:27:02 – 00:27:26
And so when, the miscarriage began, I had to tell my husband. Yep. I’m going to lean fully into the loss here too. And not just for me, although I will say his ability to support me has often been at the expense of him supporting himself. And that’s a, that’s a whole nother topic of how to help your grieving partner.
Mandy Capehart
00:27:26 – 00:27:43
Right. But it’s been a very healing journey for us to come back together and really talk About what that meant and what it means ongoing. And yeah, miscarriage is a very, very nuanced experience of loss.
Victoria Volk
00:27:43 – 00:27:54
What would you like to say and clarify for people about what you said, how the misconception about miscarriage and what it does to them.
Mandy Capehart
00:27:55 – 00:28:07
Yeah, it’s a good question. I think It comes back to that recognition that we are holistic beings. We are heart, mind, body, spirit. We are not just a body. We are not just a mind.
Mandy Capehart
00:28:07 – 00:28:54
We are not just the emotions that we feel. And when we approach ourselves from a disjointed perspective trying to heal, trying to experience grief. We dismiss the wisdom that we have carried from all of our other experiences into this moment where we could integrate them together and actually experience healing. And so I say that in regards to miscarriage because the emotional impact, the true emotions, the things I’m feeling in my heart, the thoughts I’m thinking about the miscarriage itself, about the loss of my future, about the rationale behind what happened and why about the debate internally. Is it a baby?
Mandy Capehart
00:28:54 – 00:29:03
Is it a fetus? Is it viable? Is it not? What will people say? What will people think like the mental fireworks that are just exploding left and right?
Mandy Capehart
00:29:03 – 00:29:25
And then that piritual side. And, in my framework, there’s sort of grief framework. Spirit refers to that connection to self, to others, relationally to the world, at large. And then if there is a spiritual practice to our sense of higher power. But all of those pieces have to be included, honored, and addressed when we’re healing.
Mandy Capehart
00:29:25 – 00:29:38
And I think with miscarriages, because there have been such again, black and white perspectives discerning. Okay. It’s just a scientific process. I don’t know if you’ve read Becoming Michelle Obama’s first book. It’s beautiful.
Mandy Capehart
00:29:39 – 00:29:50
She tells the story of her miscarriage and she’s very practical. She’s like, it it was just a clump of cells to me. And so and that’s how she moves through it in the book. And I sat with it for a long time because to some degree. Yeah.
Mandy Capehart
00:29:50 – 00:30:19
Totally. Just like not viable outside of me, scientific process. And like I said, I don’t know how many I’ve had. I had such irregular cycles that I’ve probably had multiple. And yet here I am choosing hope on the front of that and saying, if I don’t lean fully in with my emotions, with my mind and with my sense of connection to this little clump of cells, then I may miss out on the fullness of what this experience can be.
Mandy Capehart
00:30:19 – 00:30:57
I think when we discredit people who have babies and who can carry life and put them into this well, and you see this in legislation right now, everywhere. We’ve minimized their personhood as autonomous individuals. We’ve minimized their ability to advocate for themselves, which is because we don’t think it’s important. We don’t see the enormity of what life and giving life and going through all of the steps of that can be. So I think that the misconception of like, oh my gosh, you’ve had a miscarriage.
Mandy Capehart
00:30:57 – 00:31:13
I’ve had some too. That immediate centering of yourself in someone else’s experience when they share with you. Right. When they are real and vulnerable and honest is a reflection of that other person’s discomfort. Like, I’m not comfortable with you telling me that you’re hurting.
Mandy Capehart
00:31:13 – 00:31:25
So I’ll just say I’ve been there. We don’t have to talk about it. I’ve been there too. And that goes to all grief experiences. People center themselves and minimize pain easily.
Mandy Capehart
00:31:25 – 00:32:12
But I think, at the crux of it would be recognizing the individual experience of a miscarriage or infertility or pregnancy loss or child loss. They’re so complicated and nuanced because there’s every day a reminder that you’ve experienced this loss where I can say, oh, man, my memories of my mom come back probably every day in some way or another, or my grandfather or any of these people that I’ve lost. Those come up so differently than the miscarriages do because I have a little girl who’s constantly, she’s backed off now, but begged for a sibling for years every day. And how do you explain to a little girl? Well, mommy can’t.
Mandy Capehart
00:32:12 – 00:32:17
Mommy’s tried. You had one. Kind of. Maybe. I don’t know.
Mandy Capehart
00:32:17 – 00:32:35
And then you spiral again right down that same mental explosion of, I don’t even know how to think about this without hearing the input from judgmental voices and critical voices Oliver. It’s a long way to answer that question, but there’s a lot about it on my mind.
Victoria Volk
00:32:36 – 00:32:45
And you bring up a very good point in that for your daughter. That’s a grieving experience too of not having a sibling. Right? Yep. Maybe that’s a book you could write.
Mandy Capehart
00:32:45 – 00:32:58
Oh, man. The other day she, well, I guess it was a couple of years ago. I found a piece of paper she’d written on that said reminder, biggest reminder of your life. She was probably 6 or 7. Mom is willing to adopt a baby sister.
Mandy Capehart
00:32:58 – 00:33:13
And I was like, oh, child. Again, like, immune disorder, constant treatment happening in our house. So our lives are not simple. Adoption would not not that that’s simple, but no easy path forward on it. It was pretty hard to read that.
Mandy Capehart
00:33:13 – 00:33:37
And then fast forward a couple of years the other day, she was saying to a friend, hey, guess what? I’m an only child, so you should come to my house because we can do anything and there’s no one taking our toys. We don’t have to include any siblings. And I just thought, thank God she’s embracing the positive because I was not an only child and yet we were years apart. And so it felt a lot like I had both the best of both worlds, I think.
Mandy Capehart
00:33:37 – 00:33:41
So it’s interesting. Yeah, that would be, that would be quite a book.
Victoria Volk
00:33:43 – 00:34:00
And I think, in grief recovery, we talk about replacing the loss. Right. And so as children, one of our first losses is usually an animal or a pet, or let’s say a dog, and then the parents say, well, that’s okay, Sally. We can just go to the pet store and get a new dog tomorrow. You know, like, right?
Victoria Volk
00:34:00 – 00:34:24
And so I was just thinking about that, like, when she asked for a sibling, it’s like, well, maybe we can start with a puppy, but then at the same time, it’s, it’s minimizing, right? The loss of hope, dreams and expectations that she had for her life, sharing it with the sibling. Right? And that’s gonna be a grief story she’ll grow into tube. And like you said, it’s I think that would be a very important book.
Mandy Capehart
00:34:25 – 00:34:38
We have to move into that space of both and. Right? We can both grieve the loss of a sibling and celebrate the life we have. They don’t cancel each other out. They don’t negate.
Mandy Capehart
00:34:38 – 00:35:04
When we were, let’s see. I was probably 14 when my stepmom’s dog died, and we loved Riley. She was the sweetest black lab, and she was full of energy, and she ran in front of a vehicle and didn’t survive. And it was probably 6 months later and that my we were grieving and my stepmom was really like, I miss Riley so much. I want another pet, but I don’t know if I’m ready.
Mandy Capehart
00:35:04 – 00:35:30
I had found golden retriever puppies for sale in the newspaper like that weekend. And we were on the way to go. Like our weekend plans were, do we go get this puppy or do we go see this musician at the park? This musician that I loved and I was convinced if I just met him at 14, he would want to marry me and we would just have to have a long courtship because I was a child. I did not marry that musician, but I did marry a musician.
Mandy Capehart
00:35:30 – 00:36:00
But anyway, I, like, remember my stepmom saying, I’m not sure if I’m ready, but I guess we can go meet these dogs. And when we got there, they were in squalor. Like my dad got in this guy’s face and said, if you don’t just hand me this puppy at this price point That I’m saying, because the guy wanted 1,000 of dollars for these dogs that were being abused. He said, I’m gonna report you to the city for illegally, breeding these dogs and keeping them, abusing them. And of course we reported them anyway, but we took home this, the runt of the litter that was covered in its own filth.
Mandy Capehart
00:36:00 – 00:36:30
And, and my stepmom realized I was ready not to replace Riley, but to invite an opportunity to love another little Cue another little creature and an experience that reciprocated affection. Right. And so tucker moved in with us and was amazing until he died as well. But, it’s, it’s remarkable. We, I know that story is so different.
Mandy Capehart
00:36:30 – 00:36:49
I know most people who would have partners can tell you stories of their partners who’ve just brought home another pet or something like that and said, don’t worry. Now you don’t have to be sad anymore. And again, it’s that minimizing of our experiences. Instead of recognizing we can integrate the experiences together for a more holistic and restorative and healing experience.
Victoria Volk
00:36:50 – 00:36:52
I look forward to that book you write.
Mandy Capehart
00:36:54 – 00:36:55
Both hands. Got it. Okay.
Victoria Volk
00:36:56 – 00:37:07
Well, and I think I think your daughter would be a beautiful you know, she could almost see herself as the character in that book. Right. And probably help you write it. Yeah., She’s a brilliant little writer.
Victoria Volk
00:37:07 – 00:37:07
She,
Mandy Capehart
00:37:09 – 00:37:24
She could write it herself. I think that that’s part of it is recognizing too, like, that is also her story, and that is something that she deserves to be the one the authority of. And as parents, it’s easy for us to say like, hey, we’ve got the perspective. We’ve got the age. We’ve got the experience.
Mandy Capehart
00:37:24 – 00:37:55
We know better. And that’s one thing with our kiddo that we’re trying to raise her with is a sense of autonomy where she can push back on us. She can ask questions that are really hard when they come to mind and that she can walk away from conversations with unsatisfying answers and not not to the degree where mom and dad said so, and that’s why. But this, like, that didn’t clarify or that didn’t answer anything because mom and dad don’t have the answer. They don’t act they’re not actually infallible.
Mandy Capehart
00:37:55 – 00:38:23
Okay. What does that mean for me? And at the same time, she’s like, she’s 9. We’re trying very hard to protect her from the enormity of all the things and keep her young and keep her innocent as much as possible as in this stage, but, but giving her a chance to just have a childhood. Like, she experienced losing her nana, when she was 1a half, and my mom had moved across the state to help care for her when I needed to go back to work.
Mandy Capehart
00:38:23 – 00:39:18
And so we had a very special relationship that my daughter doesn’t remember. And I think she deserves to experience what that mean what she has carried with her from that loss in her body and how it shows up for her. I mean, anxious kids are a dime a dozen these days with how life happens around us, but it’s a very special opportunity for us to teach them differently than we were taught and to help them understand how to move through anxiety and stress and fear of loss In ways that we really needed when we were young. And that means getting really uncomfortable and not being able to just fix it or answer it away or explain it away. There’s a lot of when you’re older, I’ll go more in-depth, but for now, please take this information and hold onto it as fact and trust me that, I’ll share more later, but
Victoria Volk
00:39:19 – 00:39:50
So far, Mandy has shared some beautiful bits of wisdom with us all, and she’s going to continue in a few moments with some practical tips. But first, I just wanted to share a word from my sponsor, MagicMind. Consistently creating new content isn’t easy, and it does require a lot of focus and energy. And it can be hard to balance them. Either you have too much energy and you feel amped up and, like, you’re ready to bounce off the walls instead of feeling dialed in.
Victoria Volk
00:39:50 – 00:40:28
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Victoria Volk
00:40:28 – 00:40:58
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Victoria Volk
00:40:58 – 00:41:19
Let’s get back to the episode so Mandy can share some more of her wonderful wisdom with us. That’s a great lead to, into my next question in people listening, who are just really walking through a really difficult time. What, what is, what are some practical things that you can suggest to those people.
Mandy Capehart
00:41:19 – 00:41:43
Yeah. Well, absolutely. As a somatic practitioner, I am very, very hopeful when people are willing to pay attention to the sensations that are happening in their body. Like, we’re really quick to disconnect, like I said, our heart and our mind and our body and our spirit because we think we can think our way through a problem. If that were the case, we would have no more problems.
Mandy Capehart
00:41:43 – 00:41:52
So, like, that’s an easy dismissal. No, girl. You can’t think through that problem. No arguments against, like, the mental exercises., I get it.
Mandy Capehart
00:41:52 – 00:42:31
There’s value in them sometimes, but, ruminating takes it too far. So I think that keeping ourselves humble enough to say, maybe there’s something in my body that I can sense that will bring me some wisdom. There are a lot of somatic practices that I share, on my Instagram page and through my podcast and the work that I do, because I want these practical Habits to become the things that we go to first. Right? So in our neuroplasticity world, we know our brain can be we know that even just imagining a thing can cause our nervous system to react.
Mandy Capehart
00:42:32 – 00:43:16
And so if that is true, then the inverse is true of the way that we heal and the way that we can experience positive things as well. So if I imagine a bear is standing in front of me threatening my family, my nervous system is going to say, hey, holy crap. You should probably strategize and run away. And so the same is true of peaceful experiences and moving through loss and even restoring relationship with people that we’ve lost. And so engaging the somatic, the body, the nervous system in ways that, might feel a little a little, uncomfortable or maybe a little have some skepticism attached to it is one of my favorite ways to bring people in because the the Feel Your Feelings crowd, which we’ve all done that.
Mandy Capehart
00:43:17 – 00:43:42
And it was very popular for a while. It, for me, I witnessed it transform into good vibes only, which is probably like the one phrase that I would eradicate from the common collective, if I could. I hear good vibes only. And I see I what I actually hear is my neutral vibes aren’t welcome. My human existence isn’t welcome here.
Mandy Capehart
00:43:44 – 00:44:11
So, yeah, I would say start with recognizing going beyond just trying to think your way through a problem or let me just feel this and then I’ll feel better. That’s not true, but Your body is in internalizing and holding all of the things that you’ve experienced and to invite those things gently and very carefully with guidance to the surface and to get some wisdom and just some compassion for the things you’ve carried is really important.
Victoria Volk
00:44:12 – 00:44:21
I wanna ask something. You just mentioned it. You said restoring of the relationship with someone you’ve lost. Can you elaborate on that?
Mandy Capehart
00:44:21 – 00:44:42
Yes I can., Okay. So this is going to, might be slightly activating for people who have been In situations and I’ll say this just spiritually or even like religious situations where we talk about prayer or we talk about, afterlife. So bear with me. That framework is where I come from.
Mandy Capehart
00:44:42 – 00:45:20
Right? I have a strong background in different Flavors of Western Christianity. But where I’m going with that is this idea that If a person is removed from us often, whether through divorce breakup, literally moving away, or death, we often think, okay, I have to find closure and it’s going to look like whatever Hollywood tells me it looks like. So we get this idea in our head about what closure is, and we pursue that. And when it doesn’t work, because it typically does not work, we give up.
Mandy Capehart
00:45:20 – 00:45:55
We just think, okay, I guess that’s it. The truth is, if I can imagine a scenario where my nervous system will literally calm back down from a bear in front of me, then does it not stand a reason that I can imagine a connection to the person I’ve lost, a conversation with the person I’ve lost, not to deify them, not to put them on a pedestal and say they were perfect and did no wrong, and I’m the problem. And now I’m having better thoughts about myself. That’s not it. But to the degree where we can say, I’m gonna confront.
Mandy Capehart
00:45:55 – 00:46:16
Here’s an example. My mom with all of her heart led a very private life. There were things after she died that I learned about. There were things as she, as a teenager that I learned about that I could never about or ask about. At one point I was wrestling with something and realized, oh, this is connected to that story.
Mandy Capehart
00:46:16 – 00:46:41
I know about my mom’s life, But I’m not in a place where I can call my grandmother or my aunt or my dad. I don’t have capacity to have a conversation and have them worry about protecting her reputation or her experience. Right. She told me what she told me because she needed that was what I was welcome to be prepared YouTube. But what I knew had affected me and I was carrying it and I needed to process.
Mandy Capehart
00:46:41 – 00:47:19
And so I sat down and started to write a letter about I’m pissed off at you for not sharing and being honest, or I’m hurt that you didn’t share this, or I see that you’re human, but, like, why couldn’t you trust me? Whatever whatever the feelings were. What I ended with was this experience that ended up being verbal. I didn’t write it all down, but I was crying and feeling seen and held by my mom unable to respond. I wasn’t imagining what I ended with wasn’t this experience of, like high spirituality where I would say, oh my gosh.
Mandy Capehart
00:47:19 – 00:47:51
I’m healed from that wound with my mom just not disclosing something. I ended this cathartic expression of just not being able to be honest about what I’ve been carrying. All of the emotion of feeling untrusted and feeling unseen or feeling unworthy of hearing this hard thing in my mom’s life. Even the losses connected to it because, you know, I learn a piece of information and my brain goes to, well, what did that mean for me if that had happened? If it hadn’t happened now in the in between, what does it mean for me?
Mandy Capehart
00:47:51 – 00:48:10
All of those pieces that felt so open ended didn’t necessarily feel like closure. They felt like integrated. It felt like I could ask those questions and not fall to pieces. It felt like I could approach it with a sense of clarity but, yeah, there are still uncertainties attached. I’m not gonna have an answer that’s satisfying.
Mandy Capehart
00:48:11 – 00:48:33
I’m not going to resolve it. I, however, notice this piece of my mom’s relationship with me has lightened. When I think of that moment. When I think of that memory with my mom, that information withheld, I’m not having this sharp pressure. So part of somatic work is about learning to notice the sensations in your body.
Mandy Capehart
00:48:33 – 00:49:16
And sometimes it’s really hard to describe them, which honestly means that people are usually onto something there. And even now as I’m like talking about this, I can feel this like finger pressure, amount of pressure, like right behind my sternum, right around my heart. And it’s still less now than it was when I think about how I felt, what, 16 learning this piece of information and feeling trapped and not feeling Able to even talk about like, even as I’m thinking 16, my throat is starting to like get tight and want to close-up because I couldn’t talk about it. And I didn’t have that freedom to come into a place where it was a safe thing to converse about. So, yes, I have lost my mom and no, we never talked about it.
Mandy Capehart
00:49:16 – 00:49:59
And yet here I am talking about it in a way that I don’t actually need to imagine that she’s sitting there with me. You know, there’s this, practice called the empty chair in therapeutic Modalities where we invite the person to that chair, or we talk to the chair as if the person is with us. It doesn’t have to even be that activating because that is a hard Practice., It can be as simple as just letting myself be really honest and vulnerable with how what I’ve experienced is true and there were ugly parts of it. And I’m going to for me, vulnerability is accepting but those ugly painful parts are true and present and not trying to minimize or push them away.
Mandy Capehart
00:50:01 – 00:50:18
And I think You know, it’s a really difficult place to get to, but we don’t have to start with doing it in our own internal work. Right. We can start with an external relationship where we’re looking for a little bit of understanding or integration
when we know we’re not going to get answers at the end of it.
Victoria Volk
00:50:20 – 00:50:52
In grief recovery, we talk about and that really just reminds me there’s an exercise that we do where you do just that really. It, and, and it’s because you can have all these feelings and not get the closure. Right. And you’re stuck in emotional jail. But if you can get to that place through the way, the way you described, the somatic work that you do with people or through the grief recovery work with me, that’s that it’s possible, Right?
Victoria Volk
00:50:52 – 00:51:12
That is possible that that emotional energy, because emotions have energy, right? Can be lessened, enlightened, and worked through and filled with a fresh, newer perspective and maybe a whole lot of compassion yourself and the other person.
Mandy Capehart
00:51:12 – 00:51:35
Absolutely., I mean, emotions are energy in motion. They are literally little tiny vibrations that we’re sensing in our body that our brain is making a thought about, is making sense of, and then we spit it out and we call it a feeling, but it’s not. It’s you know, the feeling is the physical part. And the more we can allow ourselves to like, oh, maybe I misunderstand human emotion.
Mandy Capehart
00:51:35 – 00:51:53
Maybe I don’t know myself as well as I think. Maybe I’ve really protected myself from having to get into those vulnerable, uncomfortable feelings. Even this morning, I was talking with my husband, in response to 2 conversations yesterday about people who say, well, I’m not angry. I’m not angry. I don’t have a right to be angry.
Mandy Capehart
00:51:53 – 00:52:13
I have nothing to be angry about. I’m like, oh, but you do. You do have a right to be angry. You deserve to be angry, but also your relationship to anger might need to shift because if you’ve minimized it and disqualified yourself, you’re missing the fact that anger is a secondary emotion. And it’s really protecting you from those more risky emotions.
Mandy Capehart
00:52:13 – 00:52:41
There’s more vulnerable emotions behind it that maybe pointing to the fact that you’ve been invalidated or treated unjustly., Right? Our relationship to our emotions, but specifically, the uncomfortable emotions, is often so muted when we grieve that we don’t even notice we’re muting our access to the comfortable positive emotions at the same time. Right? We just we feel numb, and then we say, well, I don’t have emotions when No numb is an emotion too.
Mandy Capehart
00:52:41 – 00:52:57
Numbness is a feeling that has information for us. And we just get to a point where we’re willing to say, okay, well, what are you trying to teach me?, That then The floodgates open and it feels cathartic instead of just a fear driven. I’m never going to stop crying if I start. So I just won’t start.
Victoria Volk
00:52:58 – 00:53:25
I’m in a Voxer group with some, some friends, from all over the world. And I happen to have listened to one of my friends. She called it a rant and she was very she was angry about something and I heard it. And after I heard it, she had recalled it and I called her out on it and she’s like, I, you know, I just recalled it because you know, it, it doesn’t serve anybody. It doesn’t, it’s not helpful.
Victoria Volk
00:53:25 – 00:53:43
And I said, oh, wait a minute, I said, you have every right to be angry. Anger is a valid emotion. And it needs to come up and out. And unless you’re ruminating on it, and you’re telling every Tom, Dick and Harry the same story and you ruminating on it. Right?
Victoria Volk
00:53:43 – 00:53:54
Like, that’s not helpful. Like that doesn’t serve you. But to get it up and out and like, like, let that emotional charge go. Yeah. That’s helpful.
Victoria Volk
00:53:54 – 00:53:57
That’s serving you. Don’t minimize that. Right?
Mandy Capehart
00:53:57 – 00:53:58
Yeah. It’s like,
Victoria Volk
00:53:58 – 00:54:02
She didn’t mean she didn’t mean my permission. Obviously. Right. Right.
Mandy Capehart
00:54:03 – 00:54:29
Giving you having your permission to be a witness is a big deal, and I think we, you know, every time I hear someone say, oh, well, that’s not a helpful thing. Actually, it is. It’s helpful because it allows you to be honest. It allows you to be seen and known. And if you are translating that it is not helpful for you to be seen and known, then there’s a lot more work for you to do, not with any judgment attached, but just, hey, that sounds like a pretty painful belief that you’ve carried.
Mandy Capehart
00:54:30 – 00:55:11
What’s possible if it’s not true? What’s possible if the inverse is true that you are worth known being known and being seen, and your anger is worth expressing what’s possible for you. I can’t tell you how many grief clients I have that conversation becomes the focus for months because there’s so much to unwind around how we have minimized and invalidated our personhood and our humanity just to belong and survive in places where we’re not going to belong. This goes back to my community loss. I was telling you about like realizing that I only belonged in this large community because I made myself fit.
Mandy Capehart
00:55:11 – 00:55:25
I made myself take on the shape that was acceptable is why when I said I’m no longer going to look sound and act like you guys, do I still belong? They said, absolutely not. No. You don’t. Okay.
Mandy Capehart
00:55:25 – 00:55:39
Does that mean all that we shared was meaningless? No. But it does help me recognize pieces of myself that I sacrificed and decide, was it worth it? Ultimately, no. No.
Victoria Volk
00:55:41 – 00:55:44
But there is no failure in learning either.
Mandy Capehart
00:55:45 – 00:55:45
No. There’s like a failing.
Victoria Volk
00:55:48 – 00:56:08
Our best lessons come in failure, right? That’s why it’s not failure. I was at a wrestling term that my when my son wrestled me was just a young squirt. And on the back of the t-shirts for the wrestling team, this other team, they had, I can’t remember exactly how it was written, but something to the effect of failure is only learning. Yeah, absolutely.
Victoria Volk
00:56:08 – 00:56:11
That’s Yeah. I’ve never forgotten it.
Mandy Capehart
00:56:11 – 00:56:14
Just education. Just information., Yep. This information.
Victoria Volk
00:56:15 – 00:56:22
Is there anything else that you would like to share today. I feel like we could talk even longer, but I want to be respectful of your time.
Mandy Capehart
00:56:24 – 00:56:44
Let’s see. I think the last thing I would invite people into is just giving themselves permission to take up space, might look different than you think. It’s not saying, oh, I need a weekend away. I need to go to the spa. Giving ourselves permission to take up space means learning that self-care is simple.
Mandy Capehart
00:56:44 – 00:56:58
It’s accessible to everyone. Often I say the first step of self-care is a glass of water, right? You take for granted the fact that you can access clean water. So for the moment, you’re probably dehydrated. If you’ve cried today, you’re probably dehydrated.
Mandy Capehart
00:56:58 – 00:57:53
If you’ve pretended you haven’t cried today, or you’re not sad, you’re probably dehydrated. Just go give your skin some love, take a drink of water, a big glass, and start with this baseline understanding that the simple approach to who you are as a human, as my husband so eloquently puts it as a meat bag, as a body, go restore a little piece of that and see if it doesn’t change how you’re feeling because we, were, I think we complicate self-care and, and honoring the simplicity of our personhood because we’re mental creatures. We overthink things. We create robots and incredibly complex Mathematical systems to try and solve all the world’s problems when really, maybe we just need some clean water and a nap. I’m a I’m a big fan of that.
Mandy Capehart
00:57:53 – 00:58:03
So if you’re feeling a little like too muchness, clean water, a glass of water, and a nap is really, for me, a smart place to start.
Victoria Volk
00:58:05 – 00:58:14
I am gonna circle this conversation back to houseplants. Okay. Because this is the best., I don’t know. What what’s the word?
Victoria Volk
00:58:15 – 00:58:21
Segue. Segway. Thank you. And to bringing the conversation back to houseplants, because what do houseplants need?
Mandy Capehart
00:58:21 – 00:58:29
Water, sunlight, and something’s good. Absolutely. Yes. I love that saying that you’re basically a houseplant with emotions. Yes.
Mandy Capehart
00:58:29 – 00:58:45
Get some sunlight, get some water, get a little food occasionally, clear the cobwebs. Do you have fungus gnats? Alright. There’s a there’s a medicine for that. There’s a combination of care and, and lendliness and things you can do, and you’re going to lose some leaves.
Mandy Capehart
00:58:45 – 00:58:50
Yep. That’s a good metaphor. And it’s okay.
Victoria Volk
00:58:50 – 00:58:56
And if they start to turn and if they start to turn yellow, yeah. Check the soil, right? Yeah. I’m looking
Mandy Capehart
00:58:56 – 00:59:11
at the plants in this office right now. There’s probably let’s see. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. There are 14 houseplants in my office right now. Half of them are happy and thriving.
Mandy Capehart
00:59:11 – 00:59:26
One of them is my oldest houseplant ever. It’s like 20 years old, and it has brown spots and it loses leaves all the time. And this year after like 20 years of owning it. It started a second sprout for the first time ever. I started asking myself, what am I doing differently?
Mandy Capehart
00:59:27 – 00:59:39
Because this is this is wild. It’s never done that. It’s just gone straight up and lost some leaves and had some leaves at the top. It looks like a weird palm tree. I can’t even remember what Parietal it is.
Mandy Capehart
00:59:39 – 00:59:58
And I realized, oh, I just started giving it more attention on a consistent basis. Not just the oh, God. I forgot to water. Because for all intents and purposes, as much as I wish I was, I’m a very My ADHD comes in strong. It’s probably why I had so many houseplants at the one point.
Mandy Capehart
00:59:59 – 01:00:20
I just don’t I’m not consistent with them. But when I realized I’ve just been consistent with this one recently and it’s beginning to thrive and new things are growing in it. I thought that, yes. That’ll preach. That is a metaphor right there that if we can attend to ourselves in a consistent and loving and simple manner, something new just might take root.
Victoria Volk
01:00:22 – 01:00:28
That’s a beautiful way to end this podcast. I knew this podcast could be about houseplants.
Mandy Capehart
01:00:29 – 01:00:31
You were right. You were a 100% right.
Victoria Volk
01:00:33 – 01:00:53
Oh, I trust that everything that came out to be shared was shared and I would love to have you back. I think we discussed this before we started to record about having you back on to talk about Enneagram and how that relates to grief and the different Enneagram types. And so I would love to explore that with you in a future episode.
Mandy Capehart
01:00:53 – 01:01:03
Absolutely. I love that topic. I think Enneagram work is so easily aligned with grief work and recovery and integration. So absolutely.
Victoria Volk
01:01:04 – 01:01:36
And I’m like I shared with you too, I’m deep diving into human design. And that’s, you know, comes down to your birth time and place and where, where the, where the stars were and all of that at the, at the time of your birth. And, it’s been a huge, I had a lot of shifts in my perspective towards relationships, just in exploring my own design. And, so it’s information. It’s another tool in discovering who we are and learning about ourselves, and how we show up in our grief.
Victoria Volk
01:01:37 – 01:01:38
Yeah. And otherwise.
Mandy Capehart
01:01:38 – 01:02:11
And also too, I just remembered as you were talking, I will tell you that anybody who wants to get like a head start on what grief and Enneagram work together can look like, I’ve seen the benefit of pushing into those uncomfortable places and teaching both myself and my nervous system, how to remain aligned and resting even amid what feels like a threat to my health and my mental stability. Grief can disrupt all of that. And yet it can also be the doorway into like binding restoration in that area as well.
Victoria Volk
01:02:11 – 01:02:15
And where can people reach out to you if they want to learn more?
Mandy Capehart
01:02:15 – 01:02:34
Yeah. So good. So everything is at Mandy Capehart. So my website, mandycapehart.com Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Pinterest, TikTok, but barely all the things, at Mandy Capehart. And then The Restorative Grief Project is my free online coaching group that is posted, excuse me, hosted on Facebook.
Mandy Capehart
01:02:35 – 01:03:18
And it’s just an environment where we can practice grieving together and practice supporting one another and learn how to respond when people hit us platitudes and and learn how to invite our beloved people into the world of grief support without criticizing how they’ve shown up or not shown up in the past. Like, this is an environment and a place where we just hold space for each other and learn what that means to practice breathing with intention. So, Yeah. I love getting messages and DMs and new connections online about these really uncomfortable conversations because they deserve. It turns out every single one of us deserves to have space to fall apart.
Mandy Capehart
01:03:19 – 01:03:21
So that’s the aim of all of it.
Victoria Volk
01:03:22 – 01:03:28
I love that. And I will link to all that in the show notes. Awesome. And thank you so much for your time today, Mandy.
Mandy Capehart
01:03:28 – 01:03:32
Yeah, absolutely. Victoria, thank you for having me. It’s been my pleasure.
Victoria Volk
01:03:32 – 01:03:37
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.